Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Joe Biden has called for 100 days where everyone has to wear a mask. But Biden has not clarified whether this mandate will apply to the Obama family and Democrat governors, some of whom have recently behaved like they think all that mask wearing and social distancing which Democrats preach is just for the little people.
Biden to call for 100 days of mask-wearing among first acts amid COVID-19 pandemic
“On the first day I’m inaugurated, I’m going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask – not forever, just 100 days. And I think we’ll see a significant reduction” in the virus, Joe Biden said.
By Alexandra Jaffe
WASHINGTON — Joe Biden said Thursday that he will ask Americans to commit to 100 days of wearing masks as one of his first acts as president, stopping just short of the nationwide mandate he’s pushed before to stop the spread of the coronavirus.
The move marks a notable shift from President Donald Trump, whose own skepticism of mask-wearing has contributed to a politicization of the issue. That’s made many people reticent to embrace a practice that public health experts say is one of the easiest ways to manage the pandemic, which has killed more than 275,000 Americans.
The president-elect has frequently emphasized mask-wearing as a “patriotic duty” and during the campaign floated the idea of instituting a nationwide mask mandate, which he later acknowledged would be beyond the ability of the president to enforce.
…
Read more: https://abc7.com/joe-biden-mask-mandate-harris-iden-face-anthony-fauci/8477181/
To be fair to the Obamas, everyone has to endure moments when their kids misbehave. Kids will be kids. Some children of politicians do far worse things than little Sasha Obama’s social distancing / mask wearing gaff, like accepting questionable directorships with allegedly corrupt foreign companies.
Perhaps President Obama will put his foot down and exert some discipline, by insisting his kids social isolate with the family in the expensive low lying sea side villa President Obama purchased late last year. Daddy Obama could put the family social isolation time to good use, by educating his kids about Covid safety and sea level rise.
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He can ask, but there is little or no authority at the Federal level to create behavioral mandates. At the state level there are plenty of public health statutes that various governors have used, but even in more liberal courts these tend to be circumscribed in terms of nature and scope.
He can ask, but he’ll be laughed back into his basement by the deplorables residing between the Sierras and the Appalachians.
Biden didn’t win. And we all know that.
LOL @ur momisugly Yossarian “Biden didn’t win.”
…
Stay tuned for the results of the Electoral college.
If you consider a stolen election to have been “won”, then Biden won.
With the failure of 40+ lawsuits, there is no proof of the election being stolen. If you claim it was “stolen” please show proof, better yet, send that proof to Giuliani, he needs something.
It is not over, stayed tuned.
You actually believe that only evidence that a liberal judge will allow into a court constitutes evidence?
Then again, you do have a long history of selective editing when it comes to any reality you are willing to accept.
@MarkW, you really believe all 40 judges who have heard these cases have been liberals?
mcsnotwell sez:
@MarkW, you really believe all 40 judges who have heard these cases have been liberals?
They’re either liberals or cowardly rhinos. The judicial system is almost completely infiltrated just as the educational system has been. Where have you been?
Bwahahaha… the reaity tv star president lost bigly! (what is it- 7 MILLION votes and counting)
Far more evidence for AGW than for large scale voter fraud.
Can’t wait until Trump and all his family are locked up.
But sure, cry some more.
Yep, the election was not stolen! Probably from the month that believes that Trump concluded with the Russians.
There are enormous problems with this election, mainly due to the mail-in ballots.
Republican observers were systematically prevented from vetting the mail-in ballots, and this automatically invalidates them. Not allowing a fair examination is a violation of the equal protection clause so it’s a civil rights case. That would tip the election to Trump, guaranteed. The SCOTUS will probably unwilling to make that call because it’s so politically hot, so it will be kicked to the house per the 12th amendment. At that point, each state will get one vote. The state legislatures will decide how their state votes. Republicans control the great majority of the state legislatures, so it’s going to Trump. I really can’t see any other path, unless the Scotus makes a totally insane ruling.
We’re not even talking about all the Democrat hankey pankey with dead voters, running ballots multiple times, allowing ballots to be ‘cured’, bringing in blank ballots, back dating ballots, losing dozens of USB drives. And don’t get me started about the Dominion voting machines which were supposedly networked to servers in foreign countries. Or the Soros connections.
This is far beyond Trump/Biden. All Americans should be screaming for a total overhaul of the voting system.
At this point in the game, claiming there is no proof is evidence that one is disingenuous and/or demented. With hundreds of eye-witness reports, a video showing an instance of ballot stuffing (!!), a seized machine that has been demonstrated to flip votes from Trump to Biden, impossibly gigantic blips in the vote counts, usually in the early hours of Nov 4, and all the statistical anomalies (like Biden outperforming Hillary – and Obama! – in critical states and underperforming everywhere else, this has to be the best-documented cases of election fraud in American history – as well as the most extraordinary case of election theft.
These people went about committing fraud in a way that was blatant and in-your-face. Which seems of a piece with people claiming there is no evidence for this ridiculous piece of chicanery. I really think there is a common thread here – not quite psychopathy, perhaps, but some sort of casual disregard for the truth.
Let me give you one further little piece of evidence. No one in the past after winning such an election has _immediately_ rolled out the president-elect song-and-dance the way Biden & Co. have. Get it? They’re overcompensating; they’re working hard to maintain the charade. Anyone sensitive to nuances of behavior should be able to spot this indicator that all was not right with the election.
But if you have a tin ear when it comes to assessing what is real and what is not, I suppose this sort of thing can’t mean much.
(It will also be interesting to see how many of the 80M+ show up for the inauguration. Why, I wonder, was there no counter-demonstration by all those so Biden fans when the pro-Trumpers had their demonstration in DC.)
Biden won. He won easily. You folks are going insane with your refusal to face reality. This irrationality in one area casts serious doubt on your rationality regarding climate.
It’s all part of a pattern:
-Refusal to believe climate science
-Refusal to believe in the severity of covid-19
-Refusal to believe in the election results
It’s the antithesis of science or reality for that matter. Hardly surprising on this website though. Full of uneducated know nothings without a grasp of reality.
He didn’t actually win “easily” except in a few critical cities. Elsewhere he underperformed Hillary – in fact, according to one source he did worse in every urban county except the critical ones – where he topped Obama! (Now we know why Obama won; it was Biden who pulled him across the finish line. What charisma!) Funny how Trump did better among minorities than he had in 2016 – but he couldn’t top all those votes for Magic Joe.
It also appears that the 80M were saving up all their energies for Nov 3 – since Biden never drew more than a few dozen people to his rallies. But … nothing to see here.
Exactly! There will be no Biden presidency! Ever! 80M+
https://youtu.be/uviFuTykrGc
Additionally, all the fear mongering around corona is just that, fear mongering. It’s embarrassing to read the comments here of those who banter and profess the merits of wearing the left’s tool on their face. How can they be so openly ignorant while professing to be so enlightened. Faithless dolts who, yes, you know who you are. Cheers!
Hmm January plus 100 days, mid April. About the time the rate will lower naturally. How surprising.
And the natural low humidity during cold weather will desiccate the virus, improving it’s suspension in inside air. The BBC says if the room is “stuffy” high CO2? don’t go in. (Five ways to reduce virus infection.”}
https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53917432
With the roll out of vaccines over the same period the down trend will probably start even earlier than April. The only real question will be how many idiots actually believe the masks made a difference?
The Danish study found it doesn’t.
Welcome to the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset, aka communism for a measly universal basic income. But what could possibly go wrong with party hacks perched atop the command structure?
Which masks are the worst protection against the spread of COVID-19?
Single layer cloth masks.
Until last month, which masks were the only masks you could find available for purchase?
Single layer cloth masks!!
Not true.
I purchased 10 or so multi-layer cloth masks from Walgreens several months ago (ironically, they were made in China.). I wasn’t looking for them specifically, they were just there.
Well, it HAS made my cold last longer, because I occasionally sneeze when I wear it. Nothing quite as exciting as opening the trunk of the car to put groceries into it, and starting a sneezing fit, is there?
Well, good luck with all that. Seems to me that, once a vaxx is available and people avail themselves of it, this “mandate” becometh a mooteth pointeth… but someone will immediately say “statistics indicate that the rate has RISEN!!!! Ban the bare faces!!!! We’re doomed!!!’
Seems to me that, once a vaxx is available and people avail themselves of it, this “mandate” becometh a mooteth pointeth
You would think. But they’re already saying that the vaccine alone won’t be enough, and even WITH it, we’ll have to continue with masks etc.
All of them.
Leftists coalesce around problems that can’t be solved with “solutions” that can’t be verified. And if they can’t find enough problems to keep them in business, they make them up, like
global warming“climate change,” “overpopulation,” “systemic racism,” “white privilege,” and “income inequality.” They are the modern equivalent of druids, haruspices, and witch doctors. What matters most to them is that you try, really try, so they can tell you care.Hey, I bought several packs of those filter masks (10 per pack) and they do come in handy when I’m cleaning out the cat box!
I believe masks make a difference; they trap droplets, which–as we all know now–is how this virus gets around. Where’s your evidence otherwise?
Sorry wrong, it carried in the air in a fine mist, not droplets. Mask don’t even work in surgery! Surgeries without mask have a 1% less infection rate. That what a European study showed. So much for you droplet theory.
So much for you [sic] proofreading.
Before with flu, and now with the current virus, multiple ways of controlled testing have come to the same conclusion, masks are useless for virus diseases (well, maybe if the disease is passed only in body fluids and a mask keeps a spurt of blood off your skin, it was helpful). This includes several research papers published in medical journals recently.
Has there been any controlled research that says otherwise?
If someone sneezes and deposits Covid mucus on your mask, you will be breathing it ever thereafter. Masks are actually concentrators.
When I was done using my cloth mask this morning (about 2 hours, working with food), it was saturated from condensation from my breath. How much protection is that giving, when it’s completely soaked through?
April 20, 2021, to be precise, but he probably has difficulty reading calendars. Trying to not be too hard on the old guy. I may outlive him, y’see, and that would be a hoot.
In Victoria, we had a bad Covid outbreak in mid-winter. We wore masks for about 100 days (plus other measures). Compliance was not perfect, but adequate. We now have zero cases. Not a bad trade.
Of course you have no evidence that it was the mask wearing that did it.
Interesting! How many people are being tested?
The simplest way to get no cases is to not test anyone. It’s the tests that create ‘cases’.
Victoria peaked at 82,000 test per day and even today they still do a 7000 the data is time reverse order it starts from today and goes back day by day thru the outbreak
https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-positive-test-rate/vic
So yesterday 7,670 tests 0 positives.
The full Australian data is 10Million tests at a little over 0.3% positive.
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/total-covid-19-tests-conducted-and-results
Making assumptions from no evidence is what Nick does best.
That part is true I doubt the mask wearing had very much to do with it, the fact it in specific areas that could be identified and stopping movement seems to be the most important factor. I think USA like much of Europe is beyond this sort of control because the virus is literally everywhere. I don’t think there is much you guys can do but ride it out.
The masks had very little to do with it they simply locked down stopping people from moving. The only people you could infect was those in your same house.
Yep, the question remains how long you can do that! the virus will follow Farr’s law. No way around that. A vaccine will save you only if you can afford to wait it out. COVID-19 is not going away.
Yes spot on
And the holy masks without question have made all the difference, have they? In Spain people have been ordered to wear masks outdoors and indoors for nearly a year, with no evidence at all that maskwearing have any effect at all. It’s a myth. And it is a goldmine for chinese mask vendors. Put your head back on.
Was no one wearing the masks before the 100 days? curious how u put that thought pattern together. Is everyone still wearing them? The science of masks says they do little to help unless you are coughing or sneezing direct into someone’s face. I guess I just, after research, don’t see a need unless you are just up in someone’s face or not distancing. If masks work then why social distance . I social distancing works than why masks
Before the first hundred days, you couldn’t find masks. Store shelves were empty for nearly 200 days…and Amazon failed to deliver 3 times from various venders with deliveries “Lost in Transit”
And don’t even get me started on Toilet Paper
Not enough information Nick. You will need to be more scientific before you comment is relevant e.g. a few details need to be filled in otherwise you comment is nothing more than an uninformed opinion.
was their a mandate, when did it officially start, What constitutes “We”, What was the infection rate before the start, what was the rate of compliance (adequate is not a number science works with), Did this period incorporate lockdowns, what was the infection rate monitored daily during the masked period, when was the masked wearing lifted, what was the Victoria mortality rate before, during and after all the masking?
Bill,
Masks were mandated 19 July, and still have to be worn in many public indoor settings. We have had no new cases since October, and only one death, of someone who first caught the disease in July. Here is the plot of new cases daily. And here is the graph of deaths. Something worked.
“…Something worked…”
Nothing gets past you.
Here in Vanderburgh County, Indiana, masks have been mandatory everywhere since mid July. Even many outdoor events. No mask and they will ask you to leave to get one or they might have one for you.
Cases have been soaring the last 2 months and all our hospitals are nearly filled.
Cloth masks can’t filter out particles that are the size of a virus. An N95 mask can do that.
A cloth mask is good for keeping the virus from a sick person from being launched long distances outward with sneezes and coughs.
If you are not sick but wearing a cloth mask and are close enough to a person shedding COVID, even if they are wearing a mask where do you think the air you breathe in is coming from?
Maybe the cloth mask can filter out some virus on aerosols large enough to get trapped in the mask. But then you would have a mask contaminated with COVID and people wear and handle the same mask for many days and it would be a source of COVID.
I’m not saying don’t wear masks but at least understand how they work and what they do.
I only wear N95 masks, I have 3 dozen and will sterilize them.
They tell us that those should be reserved for healthcare workers. I bought these 15 years ago to filter dust when doing work outside.
I am all for getting our life risking healthcare workers the best equipment, especially N95 masks.
But don’t try to sell us on crappy cloth masks that hardly help and pretend we can’t have something much better!
Funny thing about those N95 masks I bought 15 years ago.
For a box of 40, I paid around $10.
Looks like a good deal for 40 right now might cost $80 and that’s way down from earlier this year.
“Cloth masks can’t filter out particles that are the size of a virus.” Sort of like saying traffic barriers can’t stop people. But they do tend to stop the cars and trucks that people are riding in.
Viruses don’t have wings to fly; they travel in droplets or other materials. And yes, cloth masks stop those droplets pretty well.
mcswell,
you have no idea what you are talking about with sub-micron size particles. Really. Stopping mosquitoes with a chain link fence doesn’t work either. Plus no one in the public protects their eyes and the eyelids are wipers that wash all those landed particles to the nasal cavity.
Infections dropped significantly in Canada with the arrival of northern hemisphere summer. They picked up again in the fall. Based on the information I have, there are too many confounding variables to allow a clear result on whether masks and/or social distancing work.
You don’t have to worry about confounding variables. If the model says it should work, then it does.
Here in Kansas we have had a mask mandate since June 3, as well as social distancing requirements and limited capacity in restaurants, churches, etc. Cases are now soaring–maybe lots more testing, oh and you can’t get a test unless you are either symptomatic or exposed–and less than half are symptomatic anyway. So how much did masks and social distancing help? To the trained eye here, doesn’t look like they helped at all.
Masks work better than infected people sneezing into their elbow or using a handkerchief. That is their real purpose. If you are inhaling virally contaminated aerosol carried on air currents, an N95 isn’t going to be good enough.
Do they also use crosses to ward of vampires?
Mr. Snider: Yes, and see? No vampires!! If I say Mr. Stokes’ conclusion is based on too little data, he’ll deny stating any conclusion and race ahead for a bit. I comment simply to note the similarity between his comment here and his conclusions on another topic- AGW is real because it’s warming and we emit CO2 more, so it must be. If his logic weren’t flawed, he’d have no logic at all.
Nick – Have you noticed that it is in the places that squelched the virus last spring that are most vulnerable now? I guess you are going to say yeh, but the vaccine will save us in Oz from having to quarantine from the rest of the world indefinitly.
This virus does not produce a decrease in life expectancy, even in badly his countries. Scaring the population will, in the end, prove to be more damaging.
Is this what happened? Five million people wore masks while mostly confined to home?
“The spread of the virus was only contained after a lockdown lasting more than 100 days, leaving some 5 million people in Melbourne, Australia’s second largest city, largely confined to their homes.
While the lockdown has seen infections wane, it slowed Australia’s economic recovery from its first recession in three decades after large swathes of the country’s economy were shut down in March.”
Probably good and fine until borders open.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-once-australias-covid-19-hotspot-victoria-state-goes-28-days-without/
“it slowed Australia’s economic recovery from its first recession in three decades”
GDP grew 3.3% during the September quarter, while we were wearing masks.
Mr. Stokes: I read the first paragraph (the headline confirms Labute’s comment), I see it grew 3.3 AFTER FALLING 3.8 WITH NO GROWTH IN 2020. Looks like a cherry pick, took me 3 seconds. Looks like Aussies are a free people. Gov’t tells you need two weeks lockdown, after 2 months a free people say, “f it, we’re goin’ out”, and they spend money. Congrats for that, but if you are cherry picking, try harder or we may lose respect.
Most governments have stimulated their economies with mortgage money, and consumer loan money to banks, business loans, benevolent unemployment insurance programs, rent subsidization plans, program spending, and hiring more government staff. The 3.3% growth is financed by a combination of future taxes on anything you earn, future inflation devaluing anything you have saved, and future capital gains taxes on the inflated value of your long term assets. Governments have it covered. Don’t worry.
You count consumption using borrowed money as GDP.
Illinois has had a mask mandate since March. Ask them how it has gone.
CORONA = a crown
C 3
O 15
R 18
O 15
N 14
A 1
6 66
The cabal always openly reveals themselves. Pretty simple what the goal is.
The mask mandate started July 1st in Wisconsin.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoVwGE5WMAE2t61?format=jpg&name=large
Corona viruses are seasonal.
You now have zero cases because according to the profile of seasonal viruses like this one it will go away as you go into summer with longer hotter days. That’s exactly what happened and I wasn’t aware that masks and lockdowns were able to tilt the southern hemisphere towards the sun!
The outbreak had virtually disappeared before the Spring Equinox.
MN in the US has had a mask mandate for I have no idea how long…cases are EXPLODING per media. Are masks really working?
Nope. The virus is doing what viruses do best: spread. It does not care if you are wearing a mask.
Well, the mask mandate seems to be working as far as wearing masks goes. Was out for a walk last weekend and observed a couple putting up their outdoor Christmas lights on their house. While wearing masks.
As for how well the masks are working to prevent the spread, I do not know. Local hospitals are full, and routine surgeries are being deferred, according to newscasts. Are masks keeping the surge lower than what it would be without them? Or is it something else?
The end of the Victorian Covid outbreak coincided with the arrival of Summer. Must have been the masks.
Did everyone in Victoria wear a mask 24/7? How many defied the order? How many only wore a mask at work, walking in and out of a restruant, or working in their yards? How many had their nose sticking out?
Many states in the US have had mask wearing mandates for months yet the COVID infection rate is exploding in those States just as it is exploding in States without a mask order. Simple cloth masks are known to have little effect on the viruses transmissaibility. An early study done by the US navy determined that wearing masks shipboard cut the risk of infection by only 20%. A simple mask might be better than nothing but not by much. Wearing simple masks certainly will not stop the pandemic as Nick Stokes falsely claims. Buckle up, Americans. We’re in for a rough ride with Biden, who is clearly showing signs of senility.
Even if Biden does manage to steal the election, he’ll be gone within three months. Harris is the real Fake President.
Yeah, saved by Dan. You were locked down like criminals. The mask was a muzzle and motive to pick on non compliant citizens.
Australia has about 25 million people in an area the size of the continental US (330 million people). New York has about 20 million people and is only the 27th largest state. Do you think that population density might have something to do with the spread of the virus?
And what did the control group do?
You know, SCIENCE????
What scientific evidence supports Biden’s request of wearing mask ?
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329439/WHO-WHE-IHM-GIP-2019.1-eng.pdf?ua=1
p. 100 :
Ten RCTs were included in meta-analysis,
and there was no evidence that face masks
are effective in reducing transmission of
laboratory-confirmed influenza.
RCT : randomized controlled trial
So far, every real-world controlled study I’ve seen indicates little if any value in masks. The only “studies” I’ve encountered that show masks “working” have been estimates, models, or analysis of “results” from areas with mask mandates – none of which accounted for any other behaviors that may have affected spread with or without masks.
But “science”, right?
Tony Heller has a compelling video showing not only the comparison of virus outbreaks in areas of mandated mask-wearing / no-mandate areas, it also briefly shows just how utterly ineffective an ordinary mask is at stopping the pass-through of vape smoke. Aren’t the individual virus specks the same size or smaller than vape particulates? Heller sets up his presentation first with a classic bit of Monty Python absurdity to illustrate the absurdity of mask-wearing stopping virus spreading.
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/11/new-video-she-turned-me-into-a-newt/
I am thinking of the Danish study last (in the news last week) that showed no statistical difference in protecting the wearer, but DID show a reduction in transmission from people who already had the ChiComFlu.
The moral of this story: If you have symptoms, stay home.
“The moral of this story: If you have symptoms, stay home.”
Except in the case of the Wuhan virus, you can be spreading the disease without having any symptoms. So you should wear a mask to reduce any potential spreading of the disease.
If you say a mask doesn’t reduce the spread, try blowing out a lit candle with a mask on. That ought to demonstrate that the mask is doing something to reduce the distance your breath can travel.
And studies can’t confirm that asymptomatic individuals spread the virus at all, either.
True, if I face it straight on, I can’t blow it out. If I face away from it but with my head rotated slightly to the left or right, I can blow it out with the air coming out either side of my mask. And, likely, if I could turn my head down just right, I could blow it out with the air coming out of the top of my mask. (I don’t recommend that, though, for risk of lighting oneself on fire.)
Point being that air is still escaping and can carry viral particles that land on the upper parts of the head, the ears, hair, and neck. Or they can be carried on other currents moving through the air. I don’t understand why people don’t realize this and why masks merely redirect air instead of containing it. Even N95s, which, yes, are the best mask for catching particles, but still redirect much of the air.
I’d argue that one is less likely to spread the virus by simply breathing through the nose. Curiously, the nostrils direct air away from the body when breathing out. I do agree that sneezing and coughing are still a problem, but simple manners can help mitigate that too: sneeze and cough into the pit of the elbow. Or, heck, if you have a coat on, cover your face with the inside of the front.
“And studies can’t confirm that asymptomatic individuals spread the virus at all, either.”
Absolutely not true. Some studies estimate up to 20 percent of asymptomatic Wuhan virus infected people can spread the disease and they have just as much or more virus than symptomatic people.
“True, if I face it straight on, I can’t blow it out. If I face away from it but with my head rotated slightly to the left or right, I can blow it out with the air coming out either side of my mask.”
If that is the case, you are obviously not using an N95 mask. Various types of masks offer various types of protection. An inferior mask does not mean all masks are similarly ineffective.
Perhaps people should get themselves some proper masks instead of pulling their t-shirt up over their mouth and nose.
And then you have these idiots that put the mask over their mouth but leave their nose uncovered. Some people are really stupid.
“Except in the case of the Wuhan virus, you can be spreading the disease without having any symptoms.”
What do you mean “Except in the case of the Wuhan virus”?
“If you say a mask doesn’t reduce the spread…”
Maybe you should reread what I wrote.
Yes, if they cough or sneeze directly into your face them wearing a mask might prevent some millions of virus partricles from reaching your respirational system. But the most effective way to accomplish the same thing is to educate people to do their nose business into the bend of their arm. Simple as that. Common sense for many of us.
And yet, a recent paper in Nature showed that only regularly-changed N95 and surgical masks were likely to reduce transmission while cloth masks were likely to make it worse.
None of this nonsense is based on science.
Happily for me, I bought a box of N95 masks a couple of years ago to use when I mow my lawn, and now I use them to fight the Wuhan virus.
It’s kind of difficult to get ahold of N95 masks today. They are giving medical personnel the priority for N95 masks. Which is as it should be.
Somebody could probably make themselves a lot of money by starting up an N95 manufacturing plant right about now.
“science” in this context is equivalent to “Abracadabra”.
TonyG – THANK YOU – I’ve been trying to find anyone who’s so certain of the effectiveness of masks to explain the mechanic of how it helps – but it always boils down to ‘it helps a little’.
Oh well, it’s probably a lot more effective than ‘climate change’ mitigation. I mean if we’re measuring very little versus almost nothing.
“but it always boils down to ‘it helps a little’.”
Masks *do* help a little.
Nothing is perfect, including masks, but masks are better than nothing. They certainly cut down on the amount of virus spread, and how far it is spread, as compared to no mask.
Masks disperse the spread, as someone else said (the example about the candle to the sides). You said “those aren’t N95” but that’s what we’re talking about – CLOTH masks, as most people have. You’re moving the goalposts. I really expect better of you from your other posts here. Let’s talk about the masks that people are wearing in response to the mask mandates.
Also, isn’t the N95 intended to protect the WEARER? While the mask argument here is protecting others FROM the wearer?
How much do those masks help when they’re soaked through, as tends to happen after wearing them for any length of time?
How much do they help when people put on the mask and then ignore other behavioral and hygiene precautions?
At another point, you also said there are as many studies showing they work as showing they don’t. Please share. Are there any controlled field studies showing they work? So far, I’ve only seen models and lab simulations.
TonyG wrote: “You said “those aren’t N95” but that’s what we’re talking about – CLOTH masks, as most people have. You’re moving the goalposts. I really expect better of you from your other posts here.”
I’m not moving the goal posts at all. You are nitpiking. Noone specified we are talking about “cloth” masks. I’m the only one who has even pointed out the difference between an N95 mask and other masks. When people trash wearing a mask, they don’t differentiate between kinds of masks. They just make a general statement about all masks, and of course, their general statement doesn’t apply to all types of masks.
TonyG wrote: “Also, isn’t the N95 intended to protect the WEARER? While the mask argument here is protecting others FROM the wearer?”
I think a mask is intended to do both things.
TonyG wrote: “How much do those masks help when they’re soaked through, as tends to happen after wearing them for any length of time?”
Well, I actually use N95 masks until they are so soaked with sweat (mowing my lawn with a push mower) that I can’t draw a breath through it. In that case, I put on a dry N95 mask and continue mowing. I suggest that is what any reasonable person would do.
TonyG wrote: “How much do they help when people put on the mask and then ignore other behavioral and hygiene precautions?”
We are talking about masks here. I suppose I could accuse you of moving the goal posts. But I won’t. I think your questions are sincere and are not trying to deflect from the point on purpose, so that would not be my definition of moving the goal posts. My definition of moving the goal posts is it is a dishonest move and I don’t consider this a dishonest move.
TonyG wrote: “At another point, you also said there are as many studies showing they work as showing they don’t. Please share. Are there any controlled field studies showing they work? So far, I’ve only seen models and lab simulations.”
Well, for the last few months, about every week I see a new study about masks and one week they work, and the next week they don’t work, and then the next week, they work again. I’ll post a link to the next favorable post i see. I note the CDC just recommended that all people wear masks. I assume they are basing this recommendation on something, so they have studies that tell them masks are effective, or they wouldn’t be making the recommendation. Don’t you think?
As for the methodology of the mask studies, I haven’t dug into them in any detail.
Fair comments, Tom, and thank you for taking my statements as intended too.
TonyG wrote: “You said “those aren’t N95” but that’s what we’re talking about – CLOTH masks, as most people have. You’re moving the goalposts. I really expect better of you from your other posts here.”
I’m not moving the goal posts at all. You are nitpiking. Noone specified we are talking about “cloth” masks. I’m the only one who has even pointed out the difference between an N95 mask and other masks. When people trash wearing a mask, they don’t differentiate between kinds of masks. They just make a general statement about all masks, and of course, their general statement doesn’t apply to all types of masks.
Ok, I can see what you’re saying that nobody specified the masks, but it seems to me that when talking about universal masking, we should discuss what people are actually using – which is mostly cloth masks, and some surgical. Discussing whether universal use of N95 masks is academic at best, and doesn’t reflect what’s happening in the real world.
For point of reference, then, in any discussion with me (I can’t speak for anyone else), I am referring to the practice of the general public of using cloth or surgical masks. When I refer to studies, I am discussing studies of same.
TonyG wrote: “Also, isn’t the N95 intended to protect the WEARER? While the mask argument here is protecting others FROM the wearer?”
I think a mask is intended to do both things.
I know at least SOME N95’s are vented. It would seem that this would not protect others from the wearer, as we are consistently told is the point of masks. I haven’t heard anyone claiming that universal masking is intended to protect the wearer.
TonyG wrote: “How much do those masks help when they’re soaked through, as tends to happen after wearing them for any length of time?”
Well, I actually use N95 masks until they are so soaked with sweat (mowing my lawn with a push mower) that I can’t draw a breath through it. In that case, I put on a dry N95 mask and continue mowing. I suggest that is what any reasonable person would do.
So let’s move on to surgical or cloth masks, as most everyone is wearing, especially people like cashiers and other workers who we encounter daily. What happens with theirs? You have not actually answered the question. You have said that the mask prevents dispersion of aerosols. My question is: what sort of aerosol dispersion occurs with a saturated mask? Also, what sort of aerosol dispersion occurs to the sides of a cloth mask, saturated or not?
TonyG wrote: “How much do they help when people put on the mask and then ignore other behavioral and hygiene precautions?”
We are talking about masks here. I suppose I could accuse you of moving the goal posts. But I won’t. I think your questions are sincere and are not trying to deflect from the point on purpose, so that would not be my definition of moving the goal posts. My definition of moving the goal posts is it is a dishonest move and I don’t consider this a dishonest move.
Thank you, as it IS intended honestly. My point is that universal masking, and particularly mask mandates, do not help, and very possibly hurt. Discussion around here can be very scattered, over several articles and multiple threads, and I don’t always keep those discussions clearly separate, so it is possible we have been discussing different things.
The simple question of whether N95 masks work to prevent transmission is, in my opinion, a moot question, because it does not reflect reality. My concern is about the reality of universal mask mandates and the effects thereof.
TonyG wrote: “At another point, you also said there are as many studies showing they work as showing they don’t. Please share. Are there any controlled field studies showing they work? So far, I’ve only seen models and lab simulations.”
Well, for the last few months, about every week I see a new study about masks and one week they work, and the next week they don’t work, and then the next week, they work again. I’ll post a link to the next favorable post i see. I note the CDC just recommended that all people wear masks. I assume they are basing this recommendation on something, so they have studies that tell them masks are effective, or they wouldn’t be making the recommendation. Don’t you think?
They also recommend a protocol of no treatment, despite evidence that early treatment helps. They also previously recommended AGAINST universal lockdowns as a response to pandemic, UNTIL covid-19. Their own publication, Emerging Infectious Disease Journal, in May, published an article regarding physical approaches to viral transmission. In the section on masks, it analyzed 10 studies wherein it determined that universal masking does not help prevent transmission (it’s been linked several times already so I’m not going to dig it up again). All live (as in real-world) controlled studies on universal masking shows no significant difference.
As for the methodology of the mask studies, I haven’t dug into them in any detail.
Maybe you should. Do you accept Doran Zimmerman’s 97% consensus? Unless I’m mixing you up with someone else I don’t think you do, and you shouldn’t because it’s a deeply flawed study. Likewise, a study that concludes that masks prevent transmission doesn’t seem particularly useful regarding real-world application when the study consisted of a test subject putting on a mask and then speaking through the mask into a box, through a 2 inch hole, where they measured aerosols using a smart phone camera. That was the Duke study. Nor is a study very useful when they estimate the transmission rate, estimate the typical contact numbers and times, estimate the spread, and then build a model from that (that was from Texas IIRC).
So, in summary: N95’s may or may not help. IMO, it’s irrelevant except to those who use them. It is completely irrelevant when it comes to universal masking, because that’s not what people are using. Controlled real-world studies using cloth or surgical masks have shown no real help with masks. And I contend that people are seeing masks as a talisman, resulting in less adherence to other, better safety protocols, which means that, in the end, universal mask mandates could very well be making things worse.
Also, with regard to “you’re moving the goalposts”, given what you said in your response, allow me to retract that. Apparently what you were claiming and what I thought you were claiming were not the same. My apologies.
The whole country has been wearing masks for over 200+ days!
Do we now have to wear 2 masks like he does??
– JPP
Hiden’ Biden can pound sand.
Is he covered in hiddenite?
So as more people wear masks per my observations in my daily travels (not me) the “case” numbers rise, so that means wearing masks for 100 days will stop the spread of the virus? Do we appear to be that stupid as to not see the what is right in front of us. We are being sold a bill of goods and the fish is rotten in the bag. Socialism is a sneaky concept that has swallowed up many a sheeple mind in the USA and the world. The cure is worse that the virus ever was. I think we all know the story, do the research and see the truth of it so clearly and so easily . Have we reached a time in history that we are so distracted that we don’t see the takeover right in front of our faces. WAKE UP NO MASKS AND PASS THE WORD.
Er… When did China joe and Lock them up Harris become president/vice president??
Imagine hearing Harris cackle like a crackhead Witch for four Years 😥😥😥
From “Cankles” to “Cackles”. Great. How America is getting “better” all the time…
In California, Gavin Newsom made mask wearing mandatory outside the home on June 18, 2020. On Dec 3, 2020, California is averaging nearly 15,000 new cases per day, more than any other point of the pandemic. That is 169 days. So one must ask themselves, why didn’t mask wearing already work?
As is the case for Taiwan and New Zealand, Australia is an island (albeit a continental sized island) and it is relatively easy to restrict entrance to the country. The US has two very long land borders, and the border with Mexico is notoriously porous. Without some means of sealing the border a nationwide lockdown would not make any sense.
One other thing, vaccinations should be available to the general public by the time that Biden is inaugurated, which makes the mask order a bit moot.
Fauci has already said that the vaccine won’t be sufficient, and we’re going to have to continue with lockdowns and masks even after it’s available.
Heard that on the news this morning. Fauci was grinning like a mouse with the cheese he’d pilfered when he was quoted. My response: time he retired. Detestable control freak that he is.
The only thing I’ve found any masks good for is when I’m cleaning the cat box (filters out the dust particles) or peeling and cutting onions (still make my eyes water like an open hose), but if it keeps people from screaming at me hysterically, fine by me.
According to this article, the Moderna vaccine is only going to be effective for a bit over 3 months.
https://www.foxnews.com/health/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-3-months
LOL @ur momisugly MarkW, the reason they say “at least 3 months” is because the trial has only been going on for 3 months. When the trial hits 5 months, they’ll be able to say “at least 5 months.”
…
Do you understand what “AT LEAST” means?
I see you didn’t bother to read the article. That’s becoming a habit of yours.
Title of the article: “Moderna coronavirus vaccine offers immunity for at least 3 months, researchers suggest”
….
Again, please tell us how you interpret at least.
Once again, you demonstrate that you didn’t bother to read the article.
WHat is it about you and your aversion to any knowledge that threatens what you have been trained to believe?
“Researchers say it is “not yet established” whether the antibodies translate to protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, but the results do imply that the vaccine has the potential to offer “durable immunity” against disease.” I think I know what “at least” means. Do you know what “not yet established” means. You really should read the article and not just the headline.
@MarkW: I read the article, and confirm bethan456’s interpretation; the study has been going on for 3 months since the second injection, at which point they say “binding and neutralizing antibodies…declined slightly over time, as expected, but they remained elevated in all participants 3 months after the booster [second] vaccination”. So yes, it’s likely to be effective for well over 3 months (maybe 5 months or longer), but being cautious, they only claim 3 months at this point.
Utter Idiocy!
As an engineer with 6 decades of successful problem solving for industrial companies big and small, I have NEVER seen the sheer stupidity with which politicians, mostly lawyers have screwed up the response to the SARSCoV2 pandemic. Added to the Medical “authorities” WHO CDC and the white house’s gaggle of hanger-oners , it seems like the first few years of several world wars, where we go our butts kicked following arm-chair Generals.
I have come to realize that some doctors have their acts together, only to be silenced by Social Media and leftists like the NYT, CNN and Biden. Mask wearing! 90% of us KNOW that they are a symbol only, to remind the populace that caution is needed. Where in the main news media is the need to improve ventilation that I have been preaching on WUWT for six month? There are references to Aerobiology studies that prove that masks, other than N95, are basically no protection? Where are multivariate linear regression studies of contacts with indoor humidity data, temperature data, cubic feet per occupant, occupancy time and morbidity indexes. These must exists, but “wear masks?” This is crazy. Open windows, avoid rooms with high CO2 (“stuffy, the BBC says.) Look, the great climate hoax center, British Broadcasting, is willing to push better ventilation.
The alternative? A prime advocate of HCQ+zinc says this:
“the simple fix is what we have been advocating, treating moderate- and high-risk people asap with HCQ+zinc+doxycycline/azithromycin+vitamin D + if necessary, steroids, aspirin etc. Weekly HCQ+daily zinc and vit D can be used for prophylaxis in the same people. Inexpensive, safe and highly effective. Much more difficult and expensive to change indoor air systems, and not necessarily all that effective.”
———–Open a few windows, it will help during this dark winter while Big Pharma trys to distribute vaccines.
References 51-53 refer to coranaviruses. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jpath/2013/493960/#B83
90% of us KNOW that they are a symbol only, to remind the populace that caution is needed.
Unfortunately, it appears that many, if not most, see it more as a talisman. As we’ve increased mask wearing, I’ve seen LESS distancing and hygeine. People aren’t using the sanitizers as much. They gather in large groups, close together, at stores and other places. And while they stand there and chat, they pull their masks down under their chins so they can talk unhindered.
It’s like the mask is magic – if you have one, you’re safe.
So true. People think the mask allows them to ignore all the real things one needs to do, like washing hands, keeping your distance, not coughing or sneezing on other people. Most people do not wear a mask properly. Most people do not change the mask often enough or they do not wash their silly cloth thing. Dirty, over used masks are a bigger risk factor than no mask at all. And after all that is said, most masks purchased are labeled NOT FOR MEDICAL USE in the first place.
Worse than that, here we’re banned from wearing N95 masks with vents because Muh Feelz. Even though they’ve been shown to be little less effective as non-vented masks at reducing spread and far better than cloth masks.
The midwits are running the asylum. I want out.
You are correct, it seems every mask mandate has been followed by a spike in cases.
Like I said elsewhere, I found that the masks are good for cleaning the cat boxes – keeps the dust out of my nose – and also housecleaning chores. There’s also a use for them when you want to spray paint something, because they’ll keep the paint droplets out of your nose. It’s stuff like that, so I don’t know what the problem is.
HCQ is not effective: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
Not this clap trap again. We gave nearly dead patients HCQ and it didn’t work.
We gave patients HCQ without the zpack and it didn’t work.
We gave HCQ to patients on a ventilator and it didn’t work.
We sprinkled HCQ on some coffins and it didn’t work.
Read the link Derg.
Once again it is not the complete protocol. You are disingenuous.
Derg, why don’t you show me the evidence from a double blind randomized controlled study with whatever “protocol” you suggest that shows HCQ being effective?
That is the problem they won’t do one…why is that 😉
If I get the Covid then I will be taking that protocol.
Thank you for admitting that there is no scientific evidence of HCQ effectiveness.
You are such a tool. Cripes
meh. Tell that to this doctor who has treated nearly 2700 symptomatic patients with zero deaths and only 4 brief hospitalizations. Over 100 of those were age 70-90. He’s probably treated more people than anyone in the US. He uses ivermectin too.
https://twitter.com/btysonmd/status/1334249944220278784
That is not a double blind randomize trial icisil.
So, what’s your point? Mortality for the 70-90 group should have been 9 or more patients (IFR 9%). Zero died. There’s no downside to early, cheap, safe treatments with reported efficacy. There’s a huge downside, though, relying on perfectionists who are willing to let people die because they can only think in terms of RCTs.
Mortalities per age brackets for first 1900 patients.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Elb_XgPWkAA4fbO?format=jpg
The point is icisil, is that if HCQ actually worked, we would not be having 2000+ people dying every day now since this thing started 11 months ago. Oh….and it’s been tried all over the globe, and it doesn’t work anywhere.
It can only work where it’s used. Numerous places, including most US states, discourage or forbid its use. So you really don’t have a valid point about it not working in those places. I just showed you a place where it is used a lot and works.
You see icisil when doctors discovered that putting COVID patients in a “prone” position on their bed, it helped their oxygen levels. It didn’t need a study in a respected journal for the doctors to spread this finding by word of mouth. That’s doctors being doctors….when they find something that works, they “spread the word.”
icisil, it has been tried all over the globe, by many countries besides the USA.
..
It doesn’t work.
Early treatment shows high efficacy
https://c19study.com/
“That’s doctors being doctors….when they find something that works, they “spread the word.””
You’re validating what I’m saying.
See, there’s really not that many doctors in the US offering early treatments. Most fall in line with the NIH policy of not offering treatments until patients are in serious condition needing oxygen.
Directory of Doctors Prescribing Effective Outpatient COVID-19 Therapy
https://www.exstnc.com/
I asked Dr Risch Yale) if HCQ would work as a prophylaxis . The answer, in his mind is Yes.
“HCQ PrEP has strong evidence, including three trials in India all showing dose-response in degree of protection with increasing cumulative dose. The recommended doses are 400mg / week x 6 weeks to establish the prevention, then after that either 400mg/week or 200mg /week. Uncertain as to the necessity of the higher dose once the 2400mg cumulative amount has been reached. Along with daily zinc 25-50 mg elemental dose and vitamin D 4000U /day.”
I trust it and I’m 78 years old.
Got a link to the publication of the three trials in India?
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.09.20116806v3
Thank you for that link to a pre-print service which is not peer reviewed. I especially liked the fact that it was a ” retrospective cohort study” with a small sample size (106). Might be better if it was a controlled double blind randomized study instead of retrospectively looking at data. Doesn’t look like they controlled for zinc or zpak.
…
Best quote in your link: “therefore highlight the need to examine this association in greater detail among a larger sample using Randomised Controlled Trials (RCT).”
A medical professional told me it is all okay because wearing masks make people feel better–or maybe it should be seeing people wear masks makes other people feel better. Are we all happy now?
“As an engineer”
Not. You’re an Enginer. You ay so yourself in your screen name.
oh whoopie….this is the great…Biden will save us all…plan
China flat out lied about it….the UN/WHO flat out lied and tried to cover for China..not once but twice
crickets….
Like global warming/emissions….China gets a free pass on everything…what’s a little slave labor among friends
Why is that?
What an empty promise. “… , just 100 days. And I think we’ll see a significant reduction”
This would occur with or without mask wearing simply due to the increased sunlight available in spring/summer as per typical influenza cyclicity.
This is similar to James Hansen’s Climate ruse and the exploitation of a natural cycle that could be used to political affect for advancing his environmental agenda.
This is like the island witch doctor knowing most stratovolcanoes usually just calm down after a period of minor eruptions as major eruptions are quite infrequent. The witch doctor can exploit and dupe ignorant villagers into giving up sacrifices of great value to appease the volcano gods, and amazingly enough the volcano goes quiet again. The sacrifices given of course to the witch doctor who then tosses empty baskets into the volcano.
Hansen helped kick start the Climate Deception in 1988 with his US Senate testimony on various CO2 emission scenarios and temperatures. He knew he a window of opportunity to run a climate scam.
James Hansen took over NASA/GISS leadership in the early 1980’s and he clearly had an insight from the studies and expertise there into the cyclical nature of the global temperature patterns. After the cooling scare of the 1970’s was still fresh on everyone’s mind. Hansen knew of the 1930’s hot years and a global warmth that peaked somewhere in early 1940’s. And he knew the global temps headed back down again to a minimum in the late 1970’s clearly seen in Arctic Sea ice and glaciers around the world.
That insight gave him the realization that a natural internal climate cycle of temp swings would push an upward trend for the next 35 +/- 5 years, starting from about 1979-1980 and peaking around 2015 +/- 5 years or so.
Combine that with all the predictions of “peak oil” between 2000-2010, and he had the recipe for an Environmental Agenda.
So calling for a masks for 100 days from Day 21 to Day 121 of next year is May 1st. Of course the virus will be in decline in the Northern Hemisphere by that time. It is a natural ecology of respiratory viruses of people being outside more, more sunlight, yet the Democrat-socialists can use to it to claim they were “correct.”
Just duping the ignorant villagers and more importantly, conditioning them to once again to give up more even precious sacrifices of personal freedoms in the near future when similar claims are made. Cultural superstitions, like the climate scam, once formed, become powerful social behavior modifying forces.
Will this be anything like “two weeks to slow the spread”?
Also, has anyone been following the news not about the vaccine but related to it? Specifically, airlines saying they will require you show proof of vaccination to be allowed to fly, and businesses planning to terminate employees who don’t get vaccinated?
We’re moving into some really scary territory.
The first half of my life on did not travel across any border without vaccination certificates for a whole slew of diseases. This would be just going back to what used to be normal. And, before the days of vaccinations diseases of all sorts moved around the world.
The real question is whether WuFlu warrants the fuss that is being made about it.
AIRLINES required that? And who said anything about borders?
Are you suggesting that at any time it was normal to be required to show proof of vaccination for employment (outside of certain limited fields), or to conduct business? There are restaurants talking about not serving people without it.
The President can “request” all he wants. The States are under no obligation to act on it, and the President has no local policing power authority to enforce it if he tried to call it mandatory. It is even quite questionable the States have the authority to enforce such an order on otherwise healthy people. And if a governor is acting on his/her authority alone to order mask mandates without the legislature passing a law to support it, then that is likely unconstitutional.
I have had some conversations with Liberals about this topic and they’ve said (thinking they’re being clever), “Then I guess you don’t think you have to wear a seatbelt when driving?”
My typical response is to ask them back, “Why do you think they call them seatbelt laws?
“Who makes laws?” is usually my next question. Followed then by, “Why do they call these “mask mandates” and not “mask laws”. Finally I ask them, “Are we a nation of laws, or a nation of mandates from an Executive branch?”
That usually shuts them up pretty hard. I love Liberal tears.
Seat belt and helmet laws are counter-productive to promoting traffic safety, because of the talisman effect mentioned above. The dubious feeling of protection can lure drivers/riders into taking more risks. Plus, a full cycle helmet restricts peripheral vision and muffles sound, two things important to moving a small vehicle in traffic. Seat belts make turning movements inconvenient and tempt drivers to skip checking their blind spots, or to use the rearview mirror to back up (which they always told you not to do).
Heck, even traffic lights can cause more accidents than they prevent, if drivers outsource decision making to them in regards to right-of-way. (Just because you obey the signals doesn’t mean the other guy will.)
Nothing effective, but at least we’re ‘doing something’. But it gives everyone they’ve terrified for a virus with a decimal point fatality rate a good-luck charm.
Civil rights be damned.
Just in case anyone missed it, Biden is an idiot. He will suggest whatever the conventional wisdom is at the time. That’s all.
Dave
“He will suggest whatever the conventional wisdom is at the time.”
You mean he will listen to his advisors/the science. How dare he? I mean he should go with his gut feeling like Trump did. Yeah, that went really well for the US didn’t it? Just look states like North and South Dakota who have waved a hand at the science (ignored) and went on with their merry daily lives. Well hello, look where that has got them? Two highest rates of infection in the country.
So wearing a mask will not stop the virus, no one ever sad it would, but it will help to slow it. Meanwhile the vaccine, if everything goes well, will help knock it on the head. That’s the plan. At least Biden has one unlike the gut man Trump who by any measure has totally botched the US response.
But hey if you know better and clearly you all do, why not just hug each other daily and while you are at it, if you live in Georgia… don’t vote in the coming senate elections. All voting is a big fraud, so why support a fraud … right?
The current vaccines in the pipeline are for suppression of symptoms and not for reductions of transmission. They reduce the likelihood of being hospitalized. They won’t knock the virus on its head.
Of course it is easier to insult others than actually look up the information.
“The current vaccines in the pipeline are for suppression of symptoms”
…
Boy you have no clue how a vaccine works. It prevents infection.
Chemman is correct. They prevent the disease, ie Covid19 symptoms, but infected indiviuals remain infectious.
Vaccines prevent infections. If you don’t get infected, you are not infectious. If you don’t get infected, you don’t display symptoms.
That might be true for some vaccines but the jury is still well and truly out on Covid19 vaccines.
“The vaccine will likely be highly effective at preventing disease but might not be as effective at preventing asymptomatic infection, where the recipient of the vaccine might not get sick but could still spread the virus.”
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/making-vaccines/prevent-covid
chemman
“The current vaccines in the pipeline are for suppression of symptoms and not for reductions of transmission.”
Complete BS. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html
So standing on one’s head won’t stop the virus, no one said it would, bit it will help slow it.
Simon: He will certainly listen to advisors, because Joe is far too dull-witted to have an original thought. Will he listen to “the science”? I noticed it slipped in, very troll-like of you. Care to let us in on “the science” Joe is hearing? I’m pretty sure he is not listening to that, because “Walkin’ on Sunshine” is all he’s hearing, playing on a loop.
“You mean he will listen to his advisors/the science. How dare he? I mean he should go with his gut feeling like Trump did. Yeah, that went really well for the US didn’t it?”
Yeah, it’s gone great, so far. Four more years of it, I say.
Here’s my question: Why didn’t the Repubicans video every questionable Democrat voting precinct during this last election? They knew there was going to be fraud. They knew the Democrats were not going to follow the rules. Yet it doesn’t appear the Republicans took nearly enough measures to offset the Democrats thefts. I guess we will soon see if the measures were adequate.
Here’s a suggestion: In this upcoming Georgia election for two U.S. senate seats, everybody get out your video equipment and record every move the Democrats and election official make from the start of the election to the end. We want a record. Should have had a record in the presidential election. Although one “through the transom” video might end up making a big difference. But it was mere luck that the Trump people go ahold of it.
Tom
It’s over. It really is time to move on. Trump has only Rudi and a few others on his team and we both know how that has gone. Even William Barr is saying there was no significant fraud. The republicans running the ballots say they were the tightest/cleanest ever.
As Joel Snider says below: “Talking point Simon.”
You are using Demcrat talking points. If you provide the full Attorney General Bob Barr quote, you will see that he did not dismiss fraud being a factor in the 2020 election.
You see, Simon, the Leftwing News Media distorts *everything* that Trump and his administration say. You have to look at the actual quotes in their entirety in order to understand what has been said. Relying on the Leftwing Media to give you the truth is a fool’s errand.
As for it being over, I think Trump has the evidece he needs. What is in question is how Republican legislators react and how the U.S. Supreme Court reacts. Republicans are thinking about how the Leftwing Media is going to excoriate them if they do something to overturn the election. So it just depends on how many cowardly Republicans we have in these State legislatures. If they do their job, Trump has a very good chance of prevailing because it looks like hundreds of thousands of votes are being contested, enough to give Trump the win.
So just give it a couple of more weeks and we’ll know a whole lot more about the situation.
When it’s over, I’ll say it’s over, regardless of the way it goes. It ain’t over yet.
Tom
I do love your commitment. And given we don’t agree but can still discuss without getting nasty, I am happy to give you the two weeks to see how it goes.
But I will say this. There is fraud. The question is was it deliberate from the Dems as an organised assault and was there enough to change the election. I say no to both but let’s see.
“But I will say this. There is fraud. The question is was it deliberate from the Dems as an organised assault and was there enough to change the election. I say no to both but let’s see.”
I think that sums it up pretty good.
Trump will have to prove his case. I just hope that the Republican politicians and Justices will do their job and follow the law and the U.S. Constitution. All we have is the law as written. We have to follow the law, and not make it up on the fly, to fit a certain situation for political reasons.
I think the U.S. Constitution is on Trump’s side. I’m not sure which side the Repbulican legislators and U.S. Supreme Court Justices are on.
If Trump makes a compelling case, Republican legislators better respond properly, because if they don’t, they will be looking for a new job come the next election. The Republican Base is paying attention.
Talking point Simon. Biden has no plan other than to ‘listen to the scientists’. And he only has that because he’s personally utterly clueless. He might as well pump a shotgun in the air.
Your crap about Trump’s ‘botched’ US response, is your typical propaganda crap – just a brainless, nasty smear – the US response has been better than most developed countries – take away New York and it’s a lot better.
And your ‘ALL’ voting is a fraud is more of your typical daily deliberate lies – it’s actually mostly only fraudulent when it’s being done by democrats – see THEY have the higher moral ground, so whatever they have to do to win is automatically justified – that was certainly the rationalizing for this election.
Simon is a moron and he/she knows it.
Derg
Great comeback. You are truely gifted.
Simon you really are moron. I still remember you being shocked of Trumps travel ban…”he didn’t do anything….”oh he did a travel ban?”
Derg
Clearly you are the master of the quick witted put down. A pioneer of perfect prose. You have inspired me to see if I can walk in your shadow. Here goes…
“Derg you are a troglodyte tw@t.”
There, come on be honest, how did I go?
Funny how it’s only science, when you agree with it. Again.
What about all the science advisors who are pointing out that masks make little if any difference.
Simon, are you same Simon who posts over at Jo’s blog? If so, your posts here are just as simple as they are there – demonstrating your total lack of any knowledge of how polling in elections is controlled and managed. Then again, I daresay your fiends in the CCP would have similarly little knowledge of how free and fair elections are managed.
Harry
“Then again, I daresay your fiends in the CCP”
Nope not same Simon.
I have no friends in the CCP, but we both know who does.
“I have no friends in the CCP, but we both know who does.”
I’m surprised you are calling Joe Biden out like that, Simon. 🙂
Yeah, Joe Biden has a lot of friends among the Chicoms. He’s been in business with them in the past. Him and his son, Hunter. Where is Hunter, by the way? I think Joe was described as “the Big Guy” back then. Maybe he still is.
Their positive test rate is the same and spiked at the same time as here in Minnesota (same people, same culture, same weather) and we’ve had a mask mandate since July 25th. So maybe instead of just trying to shame them into the groupthink, maybe we should evaluate their performance.
Moreover, since the purpose of mask mandates, lockdowns, etc. is to slow the spread so as not to overwhelm the medical community’s ability to cope with it, why not look at staffed bed availability. In ND it is 12.2% available, in SD, 34.6% available, and in MN, 9.8% available.
If you insist on using death rates as a gauge, the median death age from COVID in all 3 states is in the mid 80’s, which makes it higher than the median death age of the states as a whole. Looking at excess deaths per the CDC as of 11/28, ND was at 108%, SD 109%, and MN at 111%,with COVID death counts of 770, 796, and 3538 respectively. What’s interesting is that the excess death counts for each state are 480, 620, and 4100 (based on total deaths and excess percentage), which means at least 37% of ND COVID deaths are not excess. 22% of SD COVID deaths are not excess, and all MN COVID deaths only account for 86% of the states excess death count.
Looks like either way you measure it, both of the Dakotas are doing a better job of handling it without violating citizens’ rights than their direct neighbor to the east is with all of the edicts to “protect” us.
Masks on. Brains off.
You are assuming that the brains were on prior to masks on.
Gee, that has worked so well up to now, hasn’t it?
Joe Biden = Not my President
The Chicoms can go pound sand.
Project Runway model named Kovid wearing a mask Apr 2019.
https://twitter.com/PressResetEarth/status/1333388025318019081
10 months into this and yet none of the expert can seem to notice that the social distancing, masks, shutdowns, lockdowns, have had no effect. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome….Eventually we will get to herd immunity and then they will declare their economy destroying strategy worked.
Face Masks
In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
Note: A COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) particle is 0.125 micrometers/microns (μm); influenza virus size is 0.08 – 0.12 μm; a human hair is about 150 μm.
https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
“we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks”
Someone ought to tell the nurses and doctors they are making a big mistake by wearing masks. Look at all these studies!
I guess those doctors and nurses can’t read.
They can, but they don’t. Too caught up in system inertia and groupthink.
I’m a first responder. While not EMT, I sometimes work with patients of various sorts. I wear a (surgical) mask when doing so, not only due to department regulations, but also to keep various bodily fluids from splashing on my nose and mouth!.
I have no illusions that it might be protecting me from an airborne virus or protecting anyone else from anything I might have. Although I will admit that the EMT beside me is probably more at risk of catching something from me than the patient, since that mask is very effective at deflecting my exhalations to the side.
I wore an N95 mask when examining patients and doing office surgery expressly to avoid fluids particularly blood being splashed on my face (also wore eye wear-magnifying glasses). Usually wound up with blood specks on my mask after using high speed instruments, occasionally a lot of blood if an artery was severed.
I was rarely sick with a cold and don’t remember having the flu. I walk in the open spaces w/o a mask; there are rarely more than 5-10 people that I see on a 4-5 mile walk. I ignore the signs that mandate a mask in these areas.
“since that mask is very effective at deflecting my exhalations to the side.”
I would say you need to wear a better mask. One that doesn’t deflect your exhalation to the side.
An N95 mask will not deflect your exhalation to the side because it is not open on the sides.
Judging all masks by an inferior mask doesn’t do justice to the superior mask.
The vast majority of people do not have N95 masks. The so-called “inferior” mask that I’m wearing is the same as what almost everyone else is wearing. You can’t say that N95 masks work, therefore mask mandates work, unless everyone is using N95’s.
” I wore an N95 mask when examining patients. . .I was rarely sick with a cold and don’t remember having the flu.”
Makes sense to me.
Lets unpackage your latest “argument”.
In response to the various studies performed on NPI where “no significant reduction…” was found, you blurt out some non-sequitur “doctors and nurses can’t read”.
It must be nice to have a child’s understanding of the world around them. In the real world, there are bureaucrats and people who want to earn their food pellets. In the case of hospitals, the FedGov wanted to reduce the number of Medicare patients that picked up infections while in the hospital and needed to return after being discharged. How they enforced it was by telling hospitals they won’t be paying for patients returning.
This caused the administrators in the various hospital chains to go in to crisis mode. Many hastily formed ad hoc blue ribbon panels of policy makers to implement policies that would work towards reducing infections. So bureaucrats and control freaks did what they always do, relied on their own imagination – sort of like you, to invent ways to reduce infections.
Just like you don’t need any evidence at all to treat the face mask as a talisman against viruses, neither did these bureaucrat policy-makers. Their orders were to “Do Something”. All kinds of crazy policies were created and enforced at Stalinist levels. Requiring booties on shoes for one, no matter how ineffective or costly. Surgeons would on occasion bring in brief cases with things they would need for operations, the bureaucrats “knew” that this was a vector for viruses so they required those briefcases to be wrapped in a garbage bag, because we all know that Hefty sterilizes their bags and hermetically seals them before shipping to retail outlets.
Another brilliant idea came from the belief that the normal shedding of skin cells will cause plagues to spread, so they required staff to tuck in the blouses of their scrubs into their pants otherwise deadly skin cells would fall from the abdomen and kill people. One nurse recalls being sent out of the emergency room to quickly retrieve some life-saving equipment, as she was running out the door, one of the physicians who was on the taskforce stopped her and gave her a lengthy reprimand and lecture on how dangerous and reckless her behavior was – all the while the time was ticking on the patient under anesthesia.
Obedience was more important than a human life.
People naturally fall into cargo cult behavior, too busy to consider the evidence and empiricism but rather rely on uninformed inference – or fear of losing their job if not following orders to the letter.
I submit, that you, Tom, fall into the category of where willful ignorance meets arrogance, where your own wisdom doesn’t need to be challenged by realty, and the force of your conviction in being right in your own eyes entitles you to hector people to surrender to your fickle demands.
Maybe a little humility and the willingness to ask “Why are we doing this” would go a long way in making for civil conversation.
“Maybe a little humility and the willingness to ask “Why are we doing this” would go a long way in making for civil conversation.”
I’m not the one being uncivil. You are the one calling names.
Bottom line: There are just as many studies claiming masks are effective as there are studies that claim they are not. At this point, you get to choose whatever your personal perference is, as there is no definitive answer either way.
I happen to think a mask is better than no mask, and so I will wear a mask when appropriate. Others can do as they choose. There is probably a study backing up their choice, whatever it is.
For some it’s a matter of choosing which conclusion they want, but for others it’s a matter of choosing which data are better quality. RCTs show that surgical masks do not reduce viral transmission, and only some observational studies show they do. If a person chooses the lower quality data (observational studies) then that’s a sign that they are choosing the conclusion they want
Another study has shown that infection rates didn’t go up when surgeons stopped wearing masks in surgery.
Which kind of leaves you wondering what exactly masks ARE good for. I guess TonyG may be right that they do stop the surgeon from getting body goop in their face.
Request denied
I always ask my liberal friends why wearing condoms was not mandated by liberal politicians during the HIV epidemic. Not one has ever suggested they should have.
They may have saved the lives of several hundred thousand trans/homosexual males and mitigated progressive conditions. Perhaps they were the victims of another Planned Population scheme. Disposable.
I’ll tape half a Kleenex to my nose and call that my mask. I’ll call them racists if they object.