Biden Promises to Request 100 Days of Mask Wearing to Combat Covid-19

Democrat Presidential wannabe Joe Biden. By David Lienemann – White House (V011013DL-0556), Public Domain, Link

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Joe Biden has called for 100 days where everyone has to wear a mask. But Biden has not clarified whether this mandate will apply to the Obama family and Democrat governors, some of whom have recently behaved like they think all that mask wearing and social distancing which Democrats preach is just for the little people.

Biden to call for 100 days of mask-wearing among first acts amid COVID-19 pandemic

“On the first day I’m inaugurated, I’m going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask – not forever, just 100 days. And I think we’ll see a significant reduction” in the virus, Joe Biden said.

By Alexandra Jaffe

WASHINGTON — Joe Biden said Thursday that he will ask Americans to commit to 100 days of wearing masks as one of his first acts as president, stopping just short of the nationwide mandate he’s pushed before to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

The move marks a notable shift from President Donald Trump, whose own skepticism of mask-wearing has contributed to a politicization of the issue. That’s made many people reticent to embrace a practice that public health experts say is one of the easiest ways to manage the pandemic, which has killed more than 275,000 Americans.

The president-elect has frequently emphasized mask-wearing as a “patriotic duty” and during the campaign floated the idea of instituting a nationwide mask mandate, which he later acknowledged would be beyond the ability of the president to enforce.

Read more: https://abc7.com/joe-biden-mask-mandate-harris-iden-face-anthony-fauci/8477181/

To be fair to the Obamas, everyone has to endure moments when their kids misbehave. Kids will be kids. Some children of politicians do far worse things than little Sasha Obama’s social distancing / mask wearing gaff, like accepting questionable directorships with allegedly corrupt foreign companies.

Perhaps President Obama will put his foot down and exert some discipline, by insisting his kids social isolate with the family in the expensive low lying sea side villa President Obama purchased late last year. Daddy Obama could put the family social isolation time to good use, by educating his kids about Covid safety and sea level rise.

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mark from the midwest
December 4, 2020 10:11 am

He can ask, but there is little or no authority at the Federal level to create behavioral mandates. At the state level there are plenty of public health statutes that various governors have used, but even in more liberal courts these tend to be circumscribed in terms of nature and scope.

Yossarian
Reply to  mark from the midwest
December 4, 2020 12:35 pm

He can ask, but he’ll be laughed back into his basement by the deplorables residing between the Sierras and the Appalachians.

Biden didn’t win. And we all know that.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Yossarian
December 4, 2020 4:31 pm

LOL @ Yossarian “Biden didn’t win.”

Stay tuned for the results of the Electoral college.

MarkW
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:38 pm

If you consider a stolen election to have been “won”, then Biden won.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 6:23 pm

With the failure of 40+ lawsuits, there is no proof of the election being stolen. If you claim it was “stolen” please show proof, better yet, send that proof to Giuliani, he needs something.

Splitdog Homee
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 6:25 pm

It is not over, stayed tuned.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 7:45 pm

You actually believe that only evidence that a liberal judge will allow into a court constitutes evidence?

Then again, you do have a long history of selective editing when it comes to any reality you are willing to accept.

mcswell
Reply to  MarkW
December 5, 2020 7:32 am

@MarkW, you really believe all 40 judges who have heard these cases have been liberals?

beng135
Reply to  MarkW
December 5, 2020 8:01 am

mcsnotwell sez:
@MarkW, you really believe all 40 judges who have heard these cases have been liberals?

They’re either liberals or cowardly rhinos. The judicial system is almost completely infiltrated just as the educational system has been. Where have you been?

Steve45
Reply to  MarkW
December 5, 2020 7:30 pm

Bwahahaha… the reaity tv star president lost bigly! (what is it- 7 MILLION votes and counting)

Far more evidence for AGW than for large scale voter fraud.

Can’t wait until Trump and all his family are locked up.

But sure, cry some more.

Mark A Luhman
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 7:43 pm

Yep, the election was not stolen! Probably from the month that believes that Trump concluded with the Russians.

Tarrasik
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 9:02 pm

There are enormous problems with this election, mainly due to the mail-in ballots.
Republican observers were systematically prevented from vetting the mail-in ballots, and this automatically invalidates them. Not allowing a fair examination is a violation of the equal protection clause so it’s a civil rights case. That would tip the election to Trump, guaranteed. The SCOTUS will probably unwilling to make that call because it’s so politically hot, so it will be kicked to the house per the 12th amendment. At that point, each state will get one vote. The state legislatures will decide how their state votes. Republicans control the great majority of the state legislatures, so it’s going to Trump. I really can’t see any other path, unless the Scotus makes a totally insane ruling.

We’re not even talking about all the Democrat hankey pankey with dead voters, running ballots multiple times, allowing ballots to be ‘cured’, bringing in blank ballots, back dating ballots, losing dozens of USB drives. And don’t get me started about the Dominion voting machines which were supposedly networked to servers in foreign countries. Or the Soros connections.

This is far beyond Trump/Biden. All Americans should be screaming for a total overhaul of the voting system.

rw
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 6, 2020 11:52 am

At this point in the game, claiming there is no proof is evidence that one is disingenuous and/or demented. With hundreds of eye-witness reports, a video showing an instance of ballot stuffing (!!), a seized machine that has been demonstrated to flip votes from Trump to Biden, impossibly gigantic blips in the vote counts, usually in the early hours of Nov 4, and all the statistical anomalies (like Biden outperforming Hillary – and Obama! – in critical states and underperforming everywhere else, this has to be the best-documented cases of election fraud in American history – as well as the most extraordinary case of election theft.

These people went about committing fraud in a way that was blatant and in-your-face. Which seems of a piece with people claiming there is no evidence for this ridiculous piece of chicanery. I really think there is a common thread here – not quite psychopathy, perhaps, but some sort of casual disregard for the truth.

rw
Reply to  rw
December 6, 2020 12:06 pm

Let me give you one further little piece of evidence. No one in the past after winning such an election has _immediately_ rolled out the president-elect song-and-dance the way Biden & Co. have. Get it? They’re overcompensating; they’re working hard to maintain the charade. Anyone sensitive to nuances of behavior should be able to spot this indicator that all was not right with the election.

But if you have a tin ear when it comes to assessing what is real and what is not, I suppose this sort of thing can’t mean much.

(It will also be interesting to see how many of the 80M+ show up for the inauguration. Why, I wonder, was there no counter-demonstration by all those so Biden fans when the pro-Trumpers had their demonstration in DC.)

Don Jindra
Reply to  Yossarian
December 5, 2020 8:21 am

Biden won. He won easily. You folks are going insane with your refusal to face reality. This irrationality in one area casts serious doubt on your rationality regarding climate.

Steve45
Reply to  Don Jindra
December 5, 2020 10:03 pm

It’s all part of a pattern:
-Refusal to believe climate science
-Refusal to believe in the severity of covid-19
-Refusal to believe in the election results

It’s the antithesis of science or reality for that matter. Hardly surprising on this website though. Full of uneducated know nothings without a grasp of reality.

rw
Reply to  Don Jindra
December 6, 2020 12:12 pm

He didn’t actually win “easily” except in a few critical cities. Elsewhere he underperformed Hillary – in fact, according to one source he did worse in every urban county except the critical ones – where he topped Obama! (Now we know why Obama won; it was Biden who pulled him across the finish line. What charisma!) Funny how Trump did better among minorities than he had in 2016 – but he couldn’t top all those votes for Magic Joe.

It also appears that the 80M were saving up all their energies for Nov 3 – since Biden never drew more than a few dozen people to his rallies. But … nothing to see here.

Gen Lee Schtiff
Reply to  Yossarian
December 5, 2020 8:37 am

Exactly! There will be no Biden presidency! Ever! 80M+
https://youtu.be/uviFuTykrGc

Additionally, all the fear mongering around corona is just that, fear mongering. It’s embarrassing to read the comments here of those who banter and profess the merits of wearing the left’s tool on their face. How can they be so openly ignorant while professing to be so enlightened. Faithless dolts who, yes, you know who you are. Cheers!

Jd
December 4, 2020 10:11 am

Hmm January plus 100 days, mid April. About the time the rate will lower naturally. How surprising.

Enginer01
Reply to  Jd
December 4, 2020 11:06 am

And the natural low humidity during cold weather will desiccate the virus, improving it’s suspension in inside air. The BBC says if the room is “stuffy” high CO2? don’t go in. (Five ways to reduce virus infection.”}
https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53917432

Richard M
Reply to  Jd
December 4, 2020 11:11 am

With the roll out of vaccines over the same period the down trend will probably start even earlier than April. The only real question will be how many idiots actually believe the masks made a difference?

RockyRoad
Reply to  Richard M
December 4, 2020 11:49 am

The Danish study found it doesn’t.
Welcome to the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset, aka communism for a measly universal basic income. But what could possibly go wrong with party hacks perched atop the command structure?

Bryan A
Reply to  Richard M
December 4, 2020 12:06 pm

Which masks are the worst protection against the spread of COVID-19?
Single layer cloth masks.
Until last month, which masks were the only masks you could find available for purchase?
Single layer cloth masks!!

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Bryan A
December 4, 2020 8:18 pm

Not true.

I purchased 10 or so multi-layer cloth masks from Walgreens several months ago (ironically, they were made in China.). I wasn’t looking for them specifically, they were just there.

Sara
Reply to  Richard M
December 4, 2020 1:29 pm

Well, it HAS made my cold last longer, because I occasionally sneeze when I wear it. Nothing quite as exciting as opening the trunk of the car to put groceries into it, and starting a sneezing fit, is there?

Well, good luck with all that. Seems to me that, once a vaxx is available and people avail themselves of it, this “mandate” becometh a mooteth pointeth… but someone will immediately say “statistics indicate that the rate has RISEN!!!! Ban the bare faces!!!! We’re doomed!!!’

TonyG
Reply to  Sara
December 5, 2020 2:30 pm

Seems to me that, once a vaxx is available and people avail themselves of it, this “mandate” becometh a mooteth pointeth
You would think. But they’re already saying that the vaccine alone won’t be enough, and even WITH it, we’ll have to continue with masks etc.

stinkerp
Reply to  Richard M
December 4, 2020 1:30 pm

The only real question will be how many idiots actually believe the masks made a difference?

All of them.

Leftists coalesce around problems that can’t be solved with “solutions” that can’t be verified. And if they can’t find enough problems to keep them in business, they make them up, like global warming “climate change,” “overpopulation,” “systemic racism,” “white privilege,” and “income inequality.” They are the modern equivalent of druids, haruspices, and witch doctors. What matters most to them is that you try, really try, so they can tell you care.

Sara
Reply to  Richard M
December 4, 2020 1:31 pm

Hey, I bought several packs of those filter masks (10 per pack) and they do come in handy when I’m cleaning out the cat box!

mcswell
Reply to  Richard M
December 4, 2020 6:42 pm

I believe masks make a difference; they trap droplets, which–as we all know now–is how this virus gets around. Where’s your evidence otherwise?

Mark A Luhman
Reply to  mcswell
December 4, 2020 7:47 pm

Sorry wrong, it carried in the air in a fine mist, not droplets. Mask don’t even work in surgery! Surgeries without mask have a 1% less infection rate. That what a European study showed. So much for you droplet theory.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Mark A Luhman
December 4, 2020 8:21 pm

So much for you [sic] proofreading.

AndyHce
Reply to  mcswell
December 4, 2020 8:40 pm

Before with flu, and now with the current virus, multiple ways of controlled testing have come to the same conclusion, masks are useless for virus diseases (well, maybe if the disease is passed only in body fluids and a mask keeps a spurt of blood off your skin, it was helpful). This includes several research papers published in medical journals recently.

Has there been any controlled research that says otherwise?

Tarrasik
Reply to  mcswell
December 4, 2020 8:41 pm

If someone sneezes and deposits Covid mucus on your mask, you will be breathing it ever thereafter. Masks are actually concentrators.

TonyG
Reply to  Tarrasik
December 5, 2020 2:32 pm

When I was done using my cloth mask this morning (about 2 hours, working with food), it was saturated from condensation from my breath. How much protection is that giving, when it’s completely soaked through?

Sara
Reply to  Jd
December 4, 2020 1:25 pm

April 20, 2021, to be precise, but he probably has difficulty reading calendars. Trying to not be too hard on the old guy. I may outlive him, y’see, and that would be a hoot.

December 4, 2020 10:12 am

In Victoria, we had a bad Covid outbreak in mid-winter. We wore masks for about 100 days (plus other measures). Compliance was not perfect, but adequate. We now have zero cases. Not a bad trade.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 10:21 am

Of course you have no evidence that it was the mask wearing that did it.

Dermot
Reply to  Tom in Florida
December 4, 2020 11:14 am

Interesting! How many people are being tested?

MarkG
Reply to  Dermot
December 4, 2020 3:21 pm

The simplest way to get no cases is to not test anyone. It’s the tests that create ‘cases’.

LdB
Reply to  MarkG
December 4, 2020 6:19 pm

Victoria peaked at 82,000 test per day and even today they still do a 7000 the data is time reverse order it starts from today and goes back day by day thru the outbreak
https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-positive-test-rate/vic

So yesterday 7,670 tests 0 positives.

The full Australian data is 10Million tests at a little over 0.3% positive.
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/total-covid-19-tests-conducted-and-results

MarkW
Reply to  Tom in Florida
December 4, 2020 12:24 pm

Making assumptions from no evidence is what Nick does best.

LdB
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 6:23 pm

That part is true I doubt the mask wearing had very much to do with it, the fact it in specific areas that could be identified and stopping movement seems to be the most important factor. I think USA like much of Europe is beyond this sort of control because the virus is literally everywhere. I don’t think there is much you guys can do but ride it out.

LdB
Reply to  Tom in Florida
December 4, 2020 6:11 pm

The masks had very little to do with it they simply locked down stopping people from moving. The only people you could infect was those in your same house.

Mark A Luhman
Reply to  LdB
December 4, 2020 7:49 pm

Yep, the question remains how long you can do that! the virus will follow Farr’s law. No way around that. A vaccine will save you only if you can afford to wait it out. COVID-19 is not going away.

LdB
Reply to  Mark A Luhman
December 4, 2020 9:03 pm

Yes spot on

Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 10:26 am

And the holy masks without question have made all the difference, have they? In Spain people have been ordered to wear masks outdoors and indoors for nearly a year, with no evidence at all that maskwearing have any effect at all. It’s a myth. And it is a goldmine for chinese mask vendors. Put your head back on.

HOJO
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 10:26 am

Was no one wearing the masks before the 100 days? curious how u put that thought pattern together. Is everyone still wearing them? The science of masks says they do little to help unless you are coughing or sneezing direct into someone’s face. I guess I just, after research, don’t see a need unless you are just up in someone’s face or not distancing. If masks work then why social distance . I social distancing works than why masks

Bryan A
Reply to  HOJO
December 4, 2020 12:11 pm

Before the first hundred days, you couldn’t find masks. Store shelves were empty for nearly 200 days…and Amazon failed to deliver 3 times from various venders with deliveries “Lost in Transit”
And don’t even get me started on Toilet Paper

Bill Powers
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 10:29 am

Not enough information Nick. You will need to be more scientific before you comment is relevant e.g. a few details need to be filled in otherwise you comment is nothing more than an uninformed opinion.

was their a mandate, when did it officially start, What constitutes “We”, What was the infection rate before the start, what was the rate of compliance (adequate is not a number science works with), Did this period incorporate lockdowns, what was the infection rate monitored daily during the masked period, when was the masked wearing lifted, what was the Victoria mortality rate before, during and after all the masking?

Reply to  Bill Powers
December 4, 2020 11:02 am

Bill,
Masks were mandated 19 July, and still have to be worn in many public indoor settings. We have had no new cases since October, and only one death, of someone who first caught the disease in July. Here is the plot of new cases daily. And here is the graph of deaths. Something worked.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 11:47 am

“…Something worked…”

Nothing gets past you.

Mike Maguire
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 12:15 pm

Here in Vanderburgh County, Indiana, masks have been mandatory everywhere since mid July. Even many outdoor events. No mask and they will ask you to leave to get one or they might have one for you.

Cases have been soaring the last 2 months and all our hospitals are nearly filled.

Cloth masks can’t filter out particles that are the size of a virus. An N95 mask can do that.
A cloth mask is good for keeping the virus from a sick person from being launched long distances outward with sneezes and coughs.

If you are not sick but wearing a cloth mask and are close enough to a person shedding COVID, even if they are wearing a mask where do you think the air you breathe in is coming from?

Maybe the cloth mask can filter out some virus on aerosols large enough to get trapped in the mask. But then you would have a mask contaminated with COVID and people wear and handle the same mask for many days and it would be a source of COVID.

I’m not saying don’t wear masks but at least understand how they work and what they do.
I only wear N95 masks, I have 3 dozen and will sterilize them.
They tell us that those should be reserved for healthcare workers. I bought these 15 years ago to filter dust when doing work outside.
I am all for getting our life risking healthcare workers the best equipment, especially N95 masks.
But don’t try to sell us on crappy cloth masks that hardly help and pretend we can’t have something much better!

Mike Maguire
Reply to  Mike Maguire
December 4, 2020 3:11 pm

Funny thing about those N95 masks I bought 15 years ago.

For a box of 40, I paid around $10.

Looks like a good deal for 40 right now might cost $80 and that’s way down from earlier this year.

mcswell
Reply to  Mike Maguire
December 4, 2020 6:45 pm

“Cloth masks can’t filter out particles that are the size of a virus.” Sort of like saying traffic barriers can’t stop people. But they do tend to stop the cars and trucks that people are riding in.

Viruses don’t have wings to fly; they travel in droplets or other materials. And yes, cloth masks stop those droplets pretty well.

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Mike Maguire
December 4, 2020 10:02 pm

mcswell,
you have no idea what you are talking about with sub-micron size particles. Really. Stopping mosquitoes with a chain link fence doesn’t work either. Plus no one in the public protects their eyes and the eyelids are wipers that wash all those landed particles to the nasal cavity.

Randy Stubbings
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 12:23 pm

Infections dropped significantly in Canada with the arrival of northern hemisphere summer. They picked up again in the fall. Based on the information I have, there are too many confounding variables to allow a clear result on whether masks and/or social distancing work.

MarkW
Reply to  Randy Stubbings
December 4, 2020 2:41 pm

You don’t have to worry about confounding variables. If the model says it should work, then it does.

starzmom
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 2:09 pm

Here in Kansas we have had a mask mandate since June 3, as well as social distancing requirements and limited capacity in restaurants, churches, etc. Cases are now soaring–maybe lots more testing, oh and you can’t get a test unless you are either symptomatic or exposed–and less than half are symptomatic anyway. So how much did masks and social distancing help? To the trained eye here, doesn’t look like they helped at all.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  starzmom
December 4, 2020 4:39 pm

Masks work better than infected people sneezing into their elbow or using a handkerchief. That is their real purpose. If you are inhaling virally contaminated aerosol carried on air currents, an N95 isn’t going to be good enough.

Joel Snider
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 10:54 am

Do they also use crosses to ward of vampires?

paul courtney
Reply to  Joel Snider
December 4, 2020 11:26 am

Mr. Snider: Yes, and see? No vampires!! If I say Mr. Stokes’ conclusion is based on too little data, he’ll deny stating any conclusion and race ahead for a bit. I comment simply to note the similarity between his comment here and his conclusions on another topic- AGW is real because it’s warming and we emit CO2 more, so it must be. If his logic weren’t flawed, he’d have no logic at all.

Fran
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 10:55 am

Nick – Have you noticed that it is in the places that squelched the virus last spring that are most vulnerable now? I guess you are going to say yeh, but the vaccine will save us in Oz from having to quarantine from the rest of the world indefinitly.

This virus does not produce a decrease in life expectancy, even in badly his countries. Scaring the population will, in the end, prove to be more damaging.

Jeff Labute
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 11:32 am

Is this what happened? Five million people wore masks while mostly confined to home?

“The spread of the virus was only contained after a lockdown lasting more than 100 days, leaving some 5 million people in Melbourne, Australia’s second largest city, largely confined to their homes.
While the lockdown has seen infections wane, it slowed Australia’s economic recovery from its first recession in three decades after large swathes of the country’s economy were shut down in March.”

Probably good and fine until borders open.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-once-australias-covid-19-hotspot-victoria-state-goes-28-days-without/

Reply to  Jeff Labute
December 4, 2020 12:06 pm

“it slowed Australia’s economic recovery from its first recession in three decades”

GDP grew 3.3% during the September quarter, while we were wearing masks.

paul courtney
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 1:17 pm

Mr. Stokes: I read the first paragraph (the headline confirms Labute’s comment), I see it grew 3.3 AFTER FALLING 3.8 WITH NO GROWTH IN 2020. Looks like a cherry pick, took me 3 seconds. Looks like Aussies are a free people. Gov’t tells you need two weeks lockdown, after 2 months a free people say, “f it, we’re goin’ out”, and they spend money. Congrats for that, but if you are cherry picking, try harder or we may lose respect.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  paul courtney
December 4, 2020 4:59 pm

Most governments have stimulated their economies with mortgage money, and consumer loan money to banks, business loans, benevolent unemployment insurance programs, rent subsidization plans, program spending, and hiring more government staff. The 3.3% growth is financed by a combination of future taxes on anything you earn, future inflation devaluing anything you have saved, and future capital gains taxes on the inflated value of your long term assets. Governments have it covered. Don’t worry.

Lrp
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 7:35 pm

You count consumption using borrowed money as GDP.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 11:36 am

Illinois has had a mask mandate since March. Ask them how it has gone.

Gen Lee Schtiff
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
December 5, 2020 8:54 am

CORONA = a crown

C 3
O 15
R 18
O 15
N 14
A 1
6 66

The cabal always openly reveals themselves. Pretty simple what the goal is.

establ
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 12:07 pm

The mask mandate started July 1st in Wisconsin.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoVwGE5WMAE2t61?format=jpg&name=large

Corona viruses are seasonal.
comment image

Stephen Skinner
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 12:10 pm

You now have zero cases because according to the profile of seasonal viruses like this one it will go away as you go into summer with longer hotter days. That’s exactly what happened and I wasn’t aware that masks and lockdowns were able to tilt the southern hemisphere towards the sun!

Reply to  Stephen Skinner
December 4, 2020 12:20 pm

The outbreak had virtually disappeared before the Spring Equinox.

Derg
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 12:21 pm

MN in the US has had a mask mandate for I have no idea how long…cases are EXPLODING per media. Are masks really working?

leowaj
Reply to  Derg
December 4, 2020 2:39 pm

Nope. The virus is doing what viruses do best: spread. It does not care if you are wearing a mask.

Windsong
Reply to  Derg
December 4, 2020 3:14 pm

Well, the mask mandate seems to be working as far as wearing masks goes. Was out for a walk last weekend and observed a couple putting up their outdoor Christmas lights on their house. While wearing masks.

As for how well the masks are working to prevent the spread, I do not know. Local hospitals are full, and routine surgeries are being deferred, according to newscasts. Are masks keeping the surge lower than what it would be without them? Or is it something else?

Alan
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 12:48 pm

Did everyone in Victoria wear a mask 24/7? How many defied the order? How many only wore a mask at work, walking in and out of a restruant, or working in their yards? How many had their nose sticking out?

Meab
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 1:18 pm

Many states in the US have had mask wearing mandates for months yet the COVID infection rate is exploding in those States just as it is exploding in States without a mask order. Simple cloth masks are known to have little effect on the viruses transmissaibility. An early study done by the US navy determined that wearing masks shipboard cut the risk of infection by only 20%. A simple mask might be better than nothing but not by much. Wearing simple masks certainly will not stop the pandemic as Nick Stokes falsely claims. Buckle up, Americans. We’re in for a rough ride with Biden, who is clearly showing signs of senility.

MarkG
Reply to  Meab
December 4, 2020 3:29 pm

Even if Biden does manage to steal the election, he’ll be gone within three months. Harris is the real Fake President.

Lrp
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 4, 2020 7:27 pm

Yeah, saved by Dan. You were locked down like criminals. The mask was a muzzle and motive to pick on non compliant citizens.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 5, 2020 5:54 am

Australia has about 25 million people in an area the size of the continental US (330 million people). New York has about 20 million people and is only the 27th largest state. Do you think that population density might have something to do with the spread of the virus?

Reply to  Nick Stokes
December 5, 2020 6:51 am

And what did the control group do?
You know, SCIENCE????

Petit_Barde
December 4, 2020 10:14 am

What scientific evidence supports Biden’s request of wearing mask ?

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329439/WHO-WHE-IHM-GIP-2019.1-eng.pdf?ua=1

p. 100 :

Ten RCTs were included in meta-analysis,
and there was no evidence that face masks
are effective in reducing transmission of
laboratory-confirmed influenza.

RCT : randomized controlled trial

TonyG
Reply to  Petit_Barde
December 4, 2020 10:48 am

So far, every real-world controlled study I’ve seen indicates little if any value in masks. The only “studies” I’ve encountered that show masks “working” have been estimates, models, or analysis of “results” from areas with mask mandates – none of which accounted for any other behaviors that may have affected spread with or without masks.

But “science”, right?

Russell Cook
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 11:05 am

Tony Heller has a compelling video showing not only the comparison of virus outbreaks in areas of mandated mask-wearing / no-mandate areas, it also briefly shows just how utterly ineffective an ordinary mask is at stopping the pass-through of vape smoke. Aren’t the individual virus specks the same size or smaller than vape particulates? Heller sets up his presentation first with a classic bit of Monty Python absurdity to illustrate the absurdity of mask-wearing stopping virus spreading.
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/11/new-video-she-turned-me-into-a-newt/

Kpar
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 11:11 am

I am thinking of the Danish study last (in the news last week) that showed no statistical difference in protecting the wearer, but DID show a reduction in transmission from people who already had the ChiComFlu.

The moral of this story: If you have symptoms, stay home.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Kpar
December 4, 2020 11:48 am

“The moral of this story: If you have symptoms, stay home.”

Except in the case of the Wuhan virus, you can be spreading the disease without having any symptoms. So you should wear a mask to reduce any potential spreading of the disease.

If you say a mask doesn’t reduce the spread, try blowing out a lit candle with a mask on. That ought to demonstrate that the mask is doing something to reduce the distance your breath can travel.

starzmom
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 2:16 pm

And studies can’t confirm that asymptomatic individuals spread the virus at all, either.

leowaj
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 2:55 pm

True, if I face it straight on, I can’t blow it out. If I face away from it but with my head rotated slightly to the left or right, I can blow it out with the air coming out either side of my mask. And, likely, if I could turn my head down just right, I could blow it out with the air coming out of the top of my mask. (I don’t recommend that, though, for risk of lighting oneself on fire.)

Point being that air is still escaping and can carry viral particles that land on the upper parts of the head, the ears, hair, and neck. Or they can be carried on other currents moving through the air. I don’t understand why people don’t realize this and why masks merely redirect air instead of containing it. Even N95s, which, yes, are the best mask for catching particles, but still redirect much of the air.

I’d argue that one is less likely to spread the virus by simply breathing through the nose. Curiously, the nostrils direct air away from the body when breathing out. I do agree that sneezing and coughing are still a problem, but simple manners can help mitigate that too: sneeze and cough into the pit of the elbow. Or, heck, if you have a coat on, cover your face with the inside of the front.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 5, 2020 5:20 am

“And studies can’t confirm that asymptomatic individuals spread the virus at all, either.”

Absolutely not true. Some studies estimate up to 20 percent of asymptomatic Wuhan virus infected people can spread the disease and they have just as much or more virus than symptomatic people.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 5, 2020 5:26 am

“True, if I face it straight on, I can’t blow it out. If I face away from it but with my head rotated slightly to the left or right, I can blow it out with the air coming out either side of my mask.”

If that is the case, you are obviously not using an N95 mask. Various types of masks offer various types of protection. An inferior mask does not mean all masks are similarly ineffective.

Perhaps people should get themselves some proper masks instead of pulling their t-shirt up over their mouth and nose.

And then you have these idiots that put the mask over their mouth but leave their nose uncovered. Some people are really stupid.

Kpar
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 7, 2020 5:57 am

“Except in the case of the Wuhan virus, you can be spreading the disease without having any symptoms.”

What do you mean “Except in the case of the Wuhan virus”?

“If you say a mask doesn’t reduce the spread…”

Maybe you should reread what I wrote.

Reply to  Kpar
December 4, 2020 12:31 pm

Yes, if they cough or sneeze directly into your face them wearing a mask might prevent some millions of virus partricles from reaching your respirational system. But the most effective way to accomplish the same thing is to educate people to do their nose business into the bend of their arm. Simple as that. Common sense for many of us.

MarkG
Reply to  Kpar
December 4, 2020 3:31 pm

And yet, a recent paper in Nature showed that only regularly-changed N95 and surgical masks were likely to reduce transmission while cloth masks were likely to make it worse.

None of this nonsense is based on science.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkG
December 5, 2020 5:33 am

Happily for me, I bought a box of N95 masks a couple of years ago to use when I mow my lawn, and now I use them to fight the Wuhan virus.

It’s kind of difficult to get ahold of N95 masks today. They are giving medical personnel the priority for N95 masks. Which is as it should be.

Somebody could probably make themselves a lot of money by starting up an N95 manufacturing plant right about now.

Kpar
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 11:13 am

“science” in this context is equivalent to “Abracadabra”.

Joel Snider
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 1:04 pm

TonyG – THANK YOU – I’ve been trying to find anyone who’s so certain of the effectiveness of masks to explain the mechanic of how it helps – but it always boils down to ‘it helps a little’.

Oh well, it’s probably a lot more effective than ‘climate change’ mitigation. I mean if we’re measuring very little versus almost nothing.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Joel Snider
December 5, 2020 5:41 am

“but it always boils down to ‘it helps a little’.”

Masks *do* help a little.

Nothing is perfect, including masks, but masks are better than nothing. They certainly cut down on the amount of virus spread, and how far it is spread, as compared to no mask.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 5, 2020 2:46 pm

Masks disperse the spread, as someone else said (the example about the candle to the sides). You said “those aren’t N95” but that’s what we’re talking about – CLOTH masks, as most people have. You’re moving the goalposts. I really expect better of you from your other posts here. Let’s talk about the masks that people are wearing in response to the mask mandates.

Also, isn’t the N95 intended to protect the WEARER? While the mask argument here is protecting others FROM the wearer?

How much do those masks help when they’re soaked through, as tends to happen after wearing them for any length of time?

How much do they help when people put on the mask and then ignore other behavioral and hygiene precautions?

At another point, you also said there are as many studies showing they work as showing they don’t. Please share. Are there any controlled field studies showing they work? So far, I’ve only seen models and lab simulations.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 6, 2020 6:07 am

TonyG wrote: “You said “those aren’t N95” but that’s what we’re talking about – CLOTH masks, as most people have. You’re moving the goalposts. I really expect better of you from your other posts here.”

I’m not moving the goal posts at all. You are nitpiking. Noone specified we are talking about “cloth” masks. I’m the only one who has even pointed out the difference between an N95 mask and other masks. When people trash wearing a mask, they don’t differentiate between kinds of masks. They just make a general statement about all masks, and of course, their general statement doesn’t apply to all types of masks.

TonyG wrote: “Also, isn’t the N95 intended to protect the WEARER? While the mask argument here is protecting others FROM the wearer?”

I think a mask is intended to do both things.

TonyG wrote: “How much do those masks help when they’re soaked through, as tends to happen after wearing them for any length of time?”

Well, I actually use N95 masks until they are so soaked with sweat (mowing my lawn with a push mower) that I can’t draw a breath through it. In that case, I put on a dry N95 mask and continue mowing. I suggest that is what any reasonable person would do.

TonyG wrote: “How much do they help when people put on the mask and then ignore other behavioral and hygiene precautions?”

We are talking about masks here. I suppose I could accuse you of moving the goal posts. But I won’t. I think your questions are sincere and are not trying to deflect from the point on purpose, so that would not be my definition of moving the goal posts. My definition of moving the goal posts is it is a dishonest move and I don’t consider this a dishonest move.

TonyG wrote: “At another point, you also said there are as many studies showing they work as showing they don’t. Please share. Are there any controlled field studies showing they work? So far, I’ve only seen models and lab simulations.”

Well, for the last few months, about every week I see a new study about masks and one week they work, and the next week they don’t work, and then the next week, they work again. I’ll post a link to the next favorable post i see. I note the CDC just recommended that all people wear masks. I assume they are basing this recommendation on something, so they have studies that tell them masks are effective, or they wouldn’t be making the recommendation. Don’t you think?

As for the methodology of the mask studies, I haven’t dug into them in any detail.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 6, 2020 11:31 am

Fair comments, Tom, and thank you for taking my statements as intended too.

TonyG wrote: “You said “those aren’t N95” but that’s what we’re talking about – CLOTH masks, as most people have. You’re moving the goalposts. I really expect better of you from your other posts here.”

I’m not moving the goal posts at all. You are nitpiking. Noone specified we are talking about “cloth” masks. I’m the only one who has even pointed out the difference between an N95 mask and other masks. When people trash wearing a mask, they don’t differentiate between kinds of masks. They just make a general statement about all masks, and of course, their general statement doesn’t apply to all types of masks.

Ok, I can see what you’re saying that nobody specified the masks, but it seems to me that when talking about universal masking, we should discuss what people are actually using – which is mostly cloth masks, and some surgical. Discussing whether universal use of N95 masks is academic at best, and doesn’t reflect what’s happening in the real world.

For point of reference, then, in any discussion with me (I can’t speak for anyone else), I am referring to the practice of the general public of using cloth or surgical masks. When I refer to studies, I am discussing studies of same.

TonyG wrote: “Also, isn’t the N95 intended to protect the WEARER? While the mask argument here is protecting others FROM the wearer?”

I think a mask is intended to do both things.

I know at least SOME N95’s are vented. It would seem that this would not protect others from the wearer, as we are consistently told is the point of masks. I haven’t heard anyone claiming that universal masking is intended to protect the wearer.

TonyG wrote: “How much do those masks help when they’re soaked through, as tends to happen after wearing them for any length of time?”

Well, I actually use N95 masks until they are so soaked with sweat (mowing my lawn with a push mower) that I can’t draw a breath through it. In that case, I put on a dry N95 mask and continue mowing. I suggest that is what any reasonable person would do.

So let’s move on to surgical or cloth masks, as most everyone is wearing, especially people like cashiers and other workers who we encounter daily. What happens with theirs? You have not actually answered the question. You have said that the mask prevents dispersion of aerosols. My question is: what sort of aerosol dispersion occurs with a saturated mask? Also, what sort of aerosol dispersion occurs to the sides of a cloth mask, saturated or not?

TonyG wrote: “How much do they help when people put on the mask and then ignore other behavioral and hygiene precautions?”

We are talking about masks here. I suppose I could accuse you of moving the goal posts. But I won’t. I think your questions are sincere and are not trying to deflect from the point on purpose, so that would not be my definition of moving the goal posts. My definition of moving the goal posts is it is a dishonest move and I don’t consider this a dishonest move.

Thank you, as it IS intended honestly. My point is that universal masking, and particularly mask mandates, do not help, and very possibly hurt. Discussion around here can be very scattered, over several articles and multiple threads, and I don’t always keep those discussions clearly separate, so it is possible we have been discussing different things.

The simple question of whether N95 masks work to prevent transmission is, in my opinion, a moot question, because it does not reflect reality. My concern is about the reality of universal mask mandates and the effects thereof.

TonyG wrote: “At another point, you also said there are as many studies showing they work as showing they don’t. Please share. Are there any controlled field studies showing they work? So far, I’ve only seen models and lab simulations.”

Well, for the last few months, about every week I see a new study about masks and one week they work, and the next week they don’t work, and then the next week, they work again. I’ll post a link to the next favorable post i see. I note the CDC just recommended that all people wear masks. I assume they are basing this recommendation on something, so they have studies that tell them masks are effective, or they wouldn’t be making the recommendation. Don’t you think?

They also recommend a protocol of no treatment, despite evidence that early treatment helps. They also previously recommended AGAINST universal lockdowns as a response to pandemic, UNTIL covid-19. Their own publication, Emerging Infectious Disease Journal, in May, published an article regarding physical approaches to viral transmission. In the section on masks, it analyzed 10 studies wherein it determined that universal masking does not help prevent transmission (it’s been linked several times already so I’m not going to dig it up again). All live (as in real-world) controlled studies on universal masking shows no significant difference.

As for the methodology of the mask studies, I haven’t dug into them in any detail.

Maybe you should. Do you accept Doran Zimmerman’s 97% consensus? Unless I’m mixing you up with someone else I don’t think you do, and you shouldn’t because it’s a deeply flawed study. Likewise, a study that concludes that masks prevent transmission doesn’t seem particularly useful regarding real-world application when the study consisted of a test subject putting on a mask and then speaking through the mask into a box, through a 2 inch hole, where they measured aerosols using a smart phone camera. That was the Duke study. Nor is a study very useful when they estimate the transmission rate, estimate the typical contact numbers and times, estimate the spread, and then build a model from that (that was from Texas IIRC).

So, in summary: N95’s may or may not help. IMO, it’s irrelevant except to those who use them. It is completely irrelevant when it comes to universal masking, because that’s not what people are using. Controlled real-world studies using cloth or surgical masks have shown no real help with masks. And I contend that people are seeing masks as a talisman, resulting in less adherence to other, better safety protocols, which means that, in the end, universal mask mandates could very well be making things worse.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 6, 2020 11:34 am

Also, with regard to “you’re moving the goalposts”, given what you said in your response, allow me to retract that. Apparently what you were claiming and what I thought you were claiming were not the same. My apologies.

Reply to  Petit_Barde
December 4, 2020 4:44 pm

The whole country has been wearing masks for over 200+ days!
Do we now have to wear 2 masks like he does??

– JPP

FrozenOhio
December 4, 2020 10:18 am

Hiden’ Biden can pound sand.

MarkW
Reply to  FrozenOhio
December 4, 2020 7:49 pm

Is he covered in hiddenite?

HOJO
December 4, 2020 10:19 am

So as more people wear masks per my observations in my daily travels (not me) the “case” numbers rise, so that means wearing masks for 100 days will stop the spread of the virus? Do we appear to be that stupid as to not see the what is right in front of us. We are being sold a bill of goods and the fish is rotten in the bag. Socialism is a sneaky concept that has swallowed up many a sheeple mind in the USA and the world. The cure is worse that the virus ever was. I think we all know the story, do the research and see the truth of it so clearly and so easily . Have we reached a time in history that we are so distracted that we don’t see the takeover right in front of our faces. WAKE UP NO MASKS AND PASS THE WORD.

Sunny
December 4, 2020 10:21 am

Er… When did China joe and Lock them up Harris become president/vice president??

Imagine hearing Harris cackle like a crackhead Witch for four Years 😥😥😥

Kpar
Reply to  Sunny
December 4, 2020 11:16 am

From “Cankles” to “Cackles”. Great. How America is getting “better” all the time…

Doonman
December 4, 2020 10:23 am

In California, Gavin Newsom made mask wearing mandatory outside the home on June 18, 2020. On Dec 3, 2020, California is averaging nearly 15,000 new cases per day, more than any other point of the pandemic. That is 169 days. So one must ask themselves, why didn’t mask wearing already work?

Erik Magnuson
December 4, 2020 10:24 am

As is the case for Taiwan and New Zealand, Australia is an island (albeit a continental sized island) and it is relatively easy to restrict entrance to the country. The US has two very long land borders, and the border with Mexico is notoriously porous. Without some means of sealing the border a nationwide lockdown would not make any sense.

One other thing, vaccinations should be available to the general public by the time that Biden is inaugurated, which makes the mask order a bit moot.

TonyG
Reply to  Erik Magnuson
December 4, 2020 10:50 am

Fauci has already said that the vaccine won’t be sufficient, and we’re going to have to continue with lockdowns and masks even after it’s available.

Sara
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 1:42 pm

Heard that on the news this morning. Fauci was grinning like a mouse with the cheese he’d pilfered when he was quoted. My response: time he retired. Detestable control freak that he is.

The only thing I’ve found any masks good for is when I’m cleaning the cat box (filters out the dust particles) or peeling and cutting onions (still make my eyes water like an open hose), but if it keeps people from screaming at me hysterically, fine by me.

MarkW
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 3:42 pm

According to this article, the Moderna vaccine is only going to be effective for a bit over 3 months.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-3-months

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 4:43 pm

LOL @ MarkW, the reason they say “at least 3 months” is because the trial has only been going on for 3 months. When the trial hits 5 months, they’ll be able to say “at least 5 months.”

Do you understand what “AT LEAST” means?

MarkW
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:41 pm

I see you didn’t bother to read the article. That’s becoming a habit of yours.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 6:26 pm

Title of the article: “Moderna coronavirus vaccine offers immunity for at least 3 months, researchers suggest”
….
Again, please tell us how you interpret at least.

MarkW
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 7:52 pm

Once again, you demonstrate that you didn’t bother to read the article.
WHat is it about you and your aversion to any knowledge that threatens what you have been trained to believe?

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 5, 2020 6:06 am

“Researchers say it is “not yet established” whether the antibodies translate to protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, but the results do imply that the vaccine has the potential to offer “durable immunity” against disease.” I think I know what “at least” means. Do you know what “not yet established” means. You really should read the article and not just the headline.

mcswell
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 5, 2020 7:39 am

@MarkW: I read the article, and confirm bethan456’s interpretation; the study has been going on for 3 months since the second injection, at which point they say “binding and neutralizing antibodies…declined slightly over time, as expected, but they remained elevated in all participants 3 months after the booster [second] vaccination”. So yes, it’s likely to be effective for well over 3 months (maybe 5 months or longer), but being cautious, they only claim 3 months at this point.

Enginer01
December 4, 2020 10:26 am

Utter Idiocy!
As an engineer with 6 decades of successful problem solving for industrial companies big and small, I have NEVER seen the sheer stupidity with which politicians, mostly lawyers have screwed up the response to the SARSCoV2 pandemic. Added to the Medical “authorities” WHO CDC and the white house’s gaggle of hanger-oners , it seems like the first few years of several world wars, where we go our butts kicked following arm-chair Generals.
I have come to realize that some doctors have their acts together, only to be silenced by Social Media and leftists like the NYT, CNN and Biden. Mask wearing! 90% of us KNOW that they are a symbol only, to remind the populace that caution is needed. Where in the main news media is the need to improve ventilation that I have been preaching on WUWT for six month? There are references to Aerobiology studies that prove that masks, other than N95, are basically no protection? Where are multivariate linear regression studies of contacts with indoor humidity data, temperature data, cubic feet per occupant, occupancy time and morbidity indexes. These must exists, but “wear masks?” This is crazy. Open windows, avoid rooms with high CO2 (“stuffy, the BBC says.) Look, the great climate hoax center, British Broadcasting, is willing to push better ventilation.
The alternative? A prime advocate of HCQ+zinc says this:
“the simple fix is what we have been advocating, treating moderate- and high-risk people asap with HCQ+zinc+doxycycline/azithromycin+vitamin D + if necessary, steroids, aspirin etc. Weekly HCQ+daily zinc and vit D can be used for prophylaxis in the same people. Inexpensive, safe and highly effective. Much more difficult and expensive to change indoor air systems, and not necessarily all that effective.”
———–Open a few windows, it will help during this dark winter while Big Pharma trys to distribute vaccines.
References 51-53 refer to coranaviruses. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jpath/2013/493960/#B83

TonyG
Reply to  Enginer01
December 4, 2020 10:54 am

90% of us KNOW that they are a symbol only, to remind the populace that caution is needed.

Unfortunately, it appears that many, if not most, see it more as a talisman. As we’ve increased mask wearing, I’ve seen LESS distancing and hygeine. People aren’t using the sanitizers as much. They gather in large groups, close together, at stores and other places. And while they stand there and chat, they pull their masks down under their chins so they can talk unhindered.

It’s like the mask is magic – if you have one, you’re safe.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 12:53 pm

So true. People think the mask allows them to ignore all the real things one needs to do, like washing hands, keeping your distance, not coughing or sneezing on other people. Most people do not wear a mask properly. Most people do not change the mask often enough or they do not wash their silly cloth thing. Dirty, over used masks are a bigger risk factor than no mask at all. And after all that is said, most masks purchased are labeled NOT FOR MEDICAL USE in the first place.

MarkG
Reply to  Tom in Florida
December 4, 2020 3:37 pm

Worse than that, here we’re banned from wearing N95 masks with vents because Muh Feelz. Even though they’ve been shown to be little less effective as non-vented masks at reducing spread and far better than cloth masks.

The midwits are running the asylum. I want out.

James
Reply to  TonyG
December 5, 2020 3:11 am

You are correct, it seems every mask mandate has been followed by a spike in cases.

Sara
Reply to  TonyG
December 5, 2020 6:16 am

Like I said elsewhere, I found that the masks are good for cleaning the cat boxes – keeps the dust out of my nose – and also housecleaning chores. There’s also a use for them when you want to spray paint something, because they’ll keep the paint droplets out of your nose. It’s stuff like that, so I don’t know what the problem is.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Enginer01
December 4, 2020 11:18 am
Derg
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 12:27 pm

Not this clap trap again. We gave nearly dead patients HCQ and it didn’t work.

We gave patients HCQ without the zpack and it didn’t work.

We gave HCQ to patients on a ventilator and it didn’t work.

We sprinkled HCQ on some coffins and it didn’t work.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Derg
December 4, 2020 2:55 pm

Read the link Derg.

Derg
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 4:35 pm

Once again it is not the complete protocol. You are disingenuous.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 4:50 pm

Derg, why don’t you show me the evidence from a double blind randomized controlled study with whatever “protocol” you suggest that shows HCQ being effective?

Derg
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:24 pm

That is the problem they won’t do one…why is that 😉

If I get the Covid then I will be taking that protocol.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:44 pm

Thank you for admitting that there is no scientific evidence of HCQ effectiveness.

Derg
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:55 pm

You are such a tool. Cripes

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 12:42 pm

meh. Tell that to this doctor who has treated nearly 2700 symptomatic patients with zero deaths and only 4 brief hospitalizations. Over 100 of those were age 70-90. He’s probably treated more people than anyone in the US. He uses ivermectin too.

https://twitter.com/btysonmd/status/1334249944220278784

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  icisil
December 4, 2020 2:56 pm

That is not a double blind randomize trial icisil.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 3:36 pm

So, what’s your point? Mortality for the 70-90 group should have been 9 or more patients (IFR 9%). Zero died. There’s no downside to early, cheap, safe treatments with reported efficacy. There’s a huge downside, though, relying on perfectionists who are willing to let people die because they can only think in terms of RCTs.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 4:24 pm

Mortalities per age brackets for first 1900 patients.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Elb_XgPWkAA4fbO?format=jpg

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 4:46 pm

The point is icisil, is that if HCQ actually worked, we would not be having 2000+ people dying every day now since this thing started 11 months ago. Oh….and it’s been tried all over the globe, and it doesn’t work anywhere.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:23 pm

It can only work where it’s used. Numerous places, including most US states, discourage or forbid its use. So you really don’t have a valid point about it not working in those places. I just showed you a place where it is used a lot and works.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:37 pm

You see icisil when doctors discovered that putting COVID patients in a “prone” position on their bed, it helped their oxygen levels. It didn’t need a study in a respected journal for the doctors to spread this finding by word of mouth. That’s doctors being doctors….when they find something that works, they “spread the word.”

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:45 pm

icisil, it has been tried all over the globe, by many countries besides the USA.
..
It doesn’t work.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 7:00 pm

Early treatment shows high efficacy

https://c19study.com/

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 7:05 pm

“That’s doctors being doctors….when they find something that works, they “spread the word.””

You’re validating what I’m saying.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 5, 2020 1:40 am

See, there’s really not that many doctors in the US offering early treatments. Most fall in line with the NIH policy of not offering treatments until patients are in serious condition needing oxygen.

Directory of Doctors Prescribing Effective Outpatient COVID-19 Therapy
https://www.exstnc.com/

Enginer01
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 2:47 pm

I asked Dr Risch Yale) if HCQ would work as a prophylaxis . The answer, in his mind is Yes.

“HCQ PrEP has strong evidence, including three trials in India all showing dose-response in degree of protection with increasing cumulative dose. The recommended doses are 400mg / week x 6 weeks to establish the prevention, then after that either 400mg/week or 200mg /week. Uncertain as to the necessity of the higher dose once the 2400mg cumulative amount has been reached. Along with daily zinc 25-50 mg elemental dose and vitamin D 4000U /day.”

I trust it and I’m 78 years old.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Enginer01
December 4, 2020 3:33 pm

Got a link to the publication of the three trials in India?

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:52 pm

Thank you for that link to a pre-print service which is not peer reviewed. I especially liked the fact that it was a ” retrospective cohort study” with a small sample size (106). Might be better if it was a controlled double blind randomized study instead of retrospectively looking at data. Doesn’t look like they controlled for zinc or zpak.

Best quote in your link: “therefore highlight the need to examine this association in greater detail among a larger sample using Randomised Controlled Trials (RCT).”

starzmom
Reply to  Enginer01
December 4, 2020 2:20 pm

A medical professional told me it is all okay because wearing masks make people feel better–or maybe it should be seeing people wear masks makes other people feel better. Are we all happy now?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Enginer01
December 4, 2020 8:36 pm

“As an engineer”

Not. You’re an Enginer. You ay so yourself in your screen name.

Latitude
December 4, 2020 10:26 am

oh whoopie….this is the great…Biden will save us all…plan

China flat out lied about it….the UN/WHO flat out lied and tried to cover for China..not once but twice

crickets….

Like global warming/emissions….China gets a free pass on everything…what’s a little slave labor among friends

Why is that?

Neal in Texas
December 4, 2020 10:31 am

What an empty promise. “… , just 100 days. And I think we’ll see a significant reduction”
This would occur with or without mask wearing simply due to the increased sunlight available in spring/summer as per typical influenza cyclicity.

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Neal in Texas
December 4, 2020 11:12 am

This is similar to James Hansen’s Climate ruse and the exploitation of a natural cycle that could be used to political affect for advancing his environmental agenda.
This is like the island witch doctor knowing most stratovolcanoes usually just calm down after a period of minor eruptions as major eruptions are quite infrequent. The witch doctor can exploit and dupe ignorant villagers into giving up sacrifices of great value to appease the volcano gods, and amazingly enough the volcano goes quiet again. The sacrifices given of course to the witch doctor who then tosses empty baskets into the volcano.

Hansen helped kick start the Climate Deception in 1988 with his US Senate testimony on various CO2 emission scenarios and temperatures. He knew he a window of opportunity to run a climate scam.

James Hansen took over NASA/GISS leadership in the early 1980’s and he clearly had an insight from the studies and expertise there into the cyclical nature of the global temperature patterns. After the cooling scare of the 1970’s was still fresh on everyone’s mind. Hansen knew of the 1930’s hot years and a global warmth that peaked somewhere in early 1940’s. And he knew the global temps headed back down again to a minimum in the late 1970’s clearly seen in Arctic Sea ice and glaciers around the world.
That insight gave him the realization that a natural internal climate cycle of temp swings would push an upward trend for the next 35 +/- 5 years, starting from about 1979-1980 and peaking around 2015 +/- 5 years or so.
Combine that with all the predictions of “peak oil” between 2000-2010, and he had the recipe for an Environmental Agenda.

So calling for a masks for 100 days from Day 21 to Day 121 of next year is May 1st. Of course the virus will be in decline in the Northern Hemisphere by that time. It is a natural ecology of respiratory viruses of people being outside more, more sunlight, yet the Democrat-socialists can use to it to claim they were “correct.”
Just duping the ignorant villagers and more importantly, conditioning them to once again to give up more even precious sacrifices of personal freedoms in the near future when similar claims are made. Cultural superstitions, like the climate scam, once formed, become powerful social behavior modifying forces.

TonyG
December 4, 2020 10:36 am

Will this be anything like “two weeks to slow the spread”?

Also, has anyone been following the news not about the vaccine but related to it? Specifically, airlines saying they will require you show proof of vaccination to be allowed to fly, and businesses planning to terminate employees who don’t get vaccinated?

We’re moving into some really scary territory.

Fran
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 11:06 am

The first half of my life on did not travel across any border without vaccination certificates for a whole slew of diseases. This would be just going back to what used to be normal. And, before the days of vaccinations diseases of all sorts moved around the world.

The real question is whether WuFlu warrants the fuss that is being made about it.

TonyG
Reply to  Fran
December 4, 2020 11:43 am

AIRLINES required that? And who said anything about borders?

Are you suggesting that at any time it was normal to be required to show proof of vaccination for employment (outside of certain limited fields), or to conduct business? There are restaurants talking about not serving people without it.

Joel O'Bryan
December 4, 2020 10:45 am

The President can “request” all he wants. The States are under no obligation to act on it, and the President has no local policing power authority to enforce it if he tried to call it mandatory. It is even quite questionable the States have the authority to enforce such an order on otherwise healthy people. And if a governor is acting on his/her authority alone to order mask mandates without the legislature passing a law to support it, then that is likely unconstitutional.

I have had some conversations with Liberals about this topic and they’ve said (thinking they’re being clever), “Then I guess you don’t think you have to wear a seatbelt when driving?”
My typical response is to ask them back, “Why do you think they call them seatbelt laws?
“Who makes laws?” is usually my next question. Followed then by, “Why do they call these “mask mandates” and not “mask laws”. Finally I ask them, “Are we a nation of laws, or a nation of mandates from an Executive branch?”
That usually shuts them up pretty hard. I love Liberal tears.

drednicolson
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
December 4, 2020 11:41 am

Seat belt and helmet laws are counter-productive to promoting traffic safety, because of the talisman effect mentioned above. The dubious feeling of protection can lure drivers/riders into taking more risks. Plus, a full cycle helmet restricts peripheral vision and muffles sound, two things important to moving a small vehicle in traffic. Seat belts make turning movements inconvenient and tempt drivers to skip checking their blind spots, or to use the rearview mirror to back up (which they always told you not to do).

Heck, even traffic lights can cause more accidents than they prevent, if drivers outsource decision making to them in regards to right-of-way. (Just because you obey the signals doesn’t mean the other guy will.)

Joel Snider
December 4, 2020 10:56 am

Nothing effective, but at least we’re ‘doing something’. But it gives everyone they’ve terrified for a virus with a decimal point fatality rate a good-luck charm.

Civil rights be damned.

Dave
December 4, 2020 10:57 am

Just in case anyone missed it, Biden is an idiot. He will suggest whatever the conventional wisdom is at the time. That’s all.

Simon
Reply to  Dave
December 4, 2020 11:22 am

Dave
“He will suggest whatever the conventional wisdom is at the time.”
You mean he will listen to his advisors/the science. How dare he? I mean he should go with his gut feeling like Trump did. Yeah, that went really well for the US didn’t it? Just look states like North and South Dakota who have waved a hand at the science (ignored) and went on with their merry daily lives. Well hello, look where that has got them? Two highest rates of infection in the country.

So wearing a mask will not stop the virus, no one ever sad it would, but it will help to slow it. Meanwhile the vaccine, if everything goes well, will help knock it on the head. That’s the plan. At least Biden has one unlike the gut man Trump who by any measure has totally botched the US response.

But hey if you know better and clearly you all do, why not just hug each other daily and while you are at it, if you live in Georgia… don’t vote in the coming senate elections. All voting is a big fraud, so why support a fraud … right?

chemman
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 11:49 am

The current vaccines in the pipeline are for suppression of symptoms and not for reductions of transmission. They reduce the likelihood of being hospitalized. They won’t knock the virus on its head.

Of course it is easier to insult others than actually look up the information.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  chemman
December 4, 2020 4:17 pm

“The current vaccines in the pipeline are for suppression of symptoms”

Boy you have no clue how a vaccine works. It prevents infection.

Loydo
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:18 pm

Chemman is correct. They prevent the disease, ie Covid19 symptoms, but infected indiviuals remain infectious.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:56 pm

Vaccines prevent infections. If you don’t get infected, you are not infectious. If you don’t get infected, you don’t display symptoms.

Loydo
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 7:30 pm

That might be true for some vaccines but the jury is still well and truly out on Covid19 vaccines.
“The vaccine will likely be highly effective at preventing disease but might not be as effective at preventing asymptomatic infection, where the recipient of the vaccine might not get sick but could still spread the virus.”
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/making-vaccines/prevent-covid

Simon
Reply to  chemman
December 6, 2020 6:14 pm

chemman
“The current vaccines in the pipeline are for suppression of symptoms and not for reductions of transmission.”
Complete BS. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 11:53 am

So standing on one’s head won’t stop the virus, no one said it would, bit it will help slow it.

paul courtney
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 11:59 am

Simon: He will certainly listen to advisors, because Joe is far too dull-witted to have an original thought. Will he listen to “the science”? I noticed it slipped in, very troll-like of you. Care to let us in on “the science” Joe is hearing? I’m pretty sure he is not listening to that, because “Walkin’ on Sunshine” is all he’s hearing, playing on a loop.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 12:03 pm

“You mean he will listen to his advisors/the science. How dare he? I mean he should go with his gut feeling like Trump did. Yeah, that went really well for the US didn’t it?”

Yeah, it’s gone great, so far. Four more years of it, I say.

Here’s my question: Why didn’t the Repubicans video every questionable Democrat voting precinct during this last election? They knew there was going to be fraud. They knew the Democrats were not going to follow the rules. Yet it doesn’t appear the Republicans took nearly enough measures to offset the Democrats thefts. I guess we will soon see if the measures were adequate.

Here’s a suggestion: In this upcoming Georgia election for two U.S. senate seats, everybody get out your video equipment and record every move the Democrats and election official make from the start of the election to the end. We want a record. Should have had a record in the presidential election. Although one “through the transom” video might end up making a big difference. But it was mere luck that the Trump people go ahold of it.

Simon
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 7:04 pm

Tom
It’s over. It really is time to move on. Trump has only Rudi and a few others on his team and we both know how that has gone. Even William Barr is saying there was no significant fraud. The republicans running the ballots say they were the tightest/cleanest ever.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Simon
December 5, 2020 5:53 am

As Joel Snider says below: “Talking point Simon.”

You are using Demcrat talking points. If you provide the full Attorney General Bob Barr quote, you will see that he did not dismiss fraud being a factor in the 2020 election.

You see, Simon, the Leftwing News Media distorts *everything* that Trump and his administration say. You have to look at the actual quotes in their entirety in order to understand what has been said. Relying on the Leftwing Media to give you the truth is a fool’s errand.

As for it being over, I think Trump has the evidece he needs. What is in question is how Republican legislators react and how the U.S. Supreme Court reacts. Republicans are thinking about how the Leftwing Media is going to excoriate them if they do something to overturn the election. So it just depends on how many cowardly Republicans we have in these State legislatures. If they do their job, Trump has a very good chance of prevailing because it looks like hundreds of thousands of votes are being contested, enough to give Trump the win.

So just give it a couple of more weeks and we’ll know a whole lot more about the situation.

When it’s over, I’ll say it’s over, regardless of the way it goes. It ain’t over yet.

Simon
Reply to  Simon
December 5, 2020 11:40 am

Tom
I do love your commitment. And given we don’t agree but can still discuss without getting nasty, I am happy to give you the two weeks to see how it goes.

But I will say this. There is fraud. The question is was it deliberate from the Dems as an organised assault and was there enough to change the election. I say no to both but let’s see.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Simon
December 6, 2020 6:39 am

“But I will say this. There is fraud. The question is was it deliberate from the Dems as an organised assault and was there enough to change the election. I say no to both but let’s see.”

I think that sums it up pretty good.

Trump will have to prove his case. I just hope that the Republican politicians and Justices will do their job and follow the law and the U.S. Constitution. All we have is the law as written. We have to follow the law, and not make it up on the fly, to fit a certain situation for political reasons.

I think the U.S. Constitution is on Trump’s side. I’m not sure which side the Repbulican legislators and U.S. Supreme Court Justices are on.

If Trump makes a compelling case, Republican legislators better respond properly, because if they don’t, they will be looking for a new job come the next election. The Republican Base is paying attention.

Joel Snider
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 12:25 pm

Talking point Simon. Biden has no plan other than to ‘listen to the scientists’. And he only has that because he’s personally utterly clueless. He might as well pump a shotgun in the air.

Your crap about Trump’s ‘botched’ US response, is your typical propaganda crap – just a brainless, nasty smear – the US response has been better than most developed countries – take away New York and it’s a lot better.

And your ‘ALL’ voting is a fraud is more of your typical daily deliberate lies – it’s actually mostly only fraudulent when it’s being done by democrats – see THEY have the higher moral ground, so whatever they have to do to win is automatically justified – that was certainly the rationalizing for this election.

Derg
Reply to  Joel Snider
December 4, 2020 12:29 pm

Simon is a moron and he/she knows it.

Simon
Reply to  Derg
December 4, 2020 6:51 pm

Derg
Great comeback. You are truely gifted.

Derg
Reply to  Derg
December 5, 2020 10:10 am

Simon you really are moron. I still remember you being shocked of Trumps travel ban…”he didn’t do anything….”oh he did a travel ban?”

Simon
Reply to  Derg
December 5, 2020 4:06 pm

Derg
Clearly you are the master of the quick witted put down. A pioneer of perfect prose. You have inspired me to see if I can walk in your shadow. Here goes…
“Derg you are a troglodyte tw@t.”
There, come on be honest, how did I go?

MarkW
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 12:29 pm

Funny how it’s only science, when you agree with it. Again.
What about all the science advisors who are pointing out that masks make little if any difference.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 12:52 pm

Simon, are you same Simon who posts over at Jo’s blog? If so, your posts here are just as simple as they are there – demonstrating your total lack of any knowledge of how polling in elections is controlled and managed. Then again, I daresay your fiends in the CCP would have similarly little knowledge of how free and fair elections are managed.

Simon
Reply to  Harry Passfield
December 4, 2020 6:58 pm

Harry
“Then again, I daresay your fiends in the CCP”
Nope not same Simon.

I have no friends in the CCP, but we both know who does.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Simon
December 5, 2020 5:59 am

“I have no friends in the CCP, but we both know who does.”

I’m surprised you are calling Joe Biden out like that, Simon. 🙂

Yeah, Joe Biden has a lot of friends among the Chicoms. He’s been in business with them in the past. Him and his son, Hunter. Where is Hunter, by the way? I think Joe was described as “the Big Guy” back then. Maybe he still is.

CptTrips
Reply to  Simon
December 4, 2020 3:00 pm

Their positive test rate is the same and spiked at the same time as here in Minnesota (same people, same culture, same weather) and we’ve had a mask mandate since July 25th. So maybe instead of just trying to shame them into the groupthink, maybe we should evaluate their performance.

Moreover, since the purpose of mask mandates, lockdowns, etc. is to slow the spread so as not to overwhelm the medical community’s ability to cope with it, why not look at staffed bed availability. In ND it is 12.2% available, in SD, 34.6% available, and in MN, 9.8% available.

If you insist on using death rates as a gauge, the median death age from COVID in all 3 states is in the mid 80’s, which makes it higher than the median death age of the states as a whole. Looking at excess deaths per the CDC as of 11/28, ND was at 108%, SD 109%, and MN at 111%,with COVID death counts of 770, 796, and 3538 respectively. What’s interesting is that the excess death counts for each state are 480, 620, and 4100 (based on total deaths and excess percentage), which means at least 37% of ND COVID deaths are not excess. 22% of SD COVID deaths are not excess, and all MN COVID deaths only account for 86% of the states excess death count.

Looks like either way you measure it, both of the Dakotas are doing a better job of handling it without violating citizens’ rights than their direct neighbor to the east is with all of the edicts to “protect” us.

Bruce Cobb
December 4, 2020 11:00 am

Masks on. Brains off.

MarkW
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
December 4, 2020 3:45 pm

You are assuming that the brains were on prior to masks on.

Kpar
December 4, 2020 11:06 am

Gee, that has worked so well up to now, hasn’t it?

SMC
December 4, 2020 11:10 am

Joe Biden = Not my President
The Chicoms can go pound sand.

icisil
December 4, 2020 11:13 am

Project Runway model named Kovid wearing a mask Apr 2019.

https://twitter.com/PressResetEarth/status/1333388025318019081

Thomas Gasloli
December 4, 2020 11:15 am

10 months into this and yet none of the expert can seem to notice that the social distancing, masks, shutdowns, lockdowns, have had no effect. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome….Eventually we will get to herd immunity and then they will declare their economy destroying strategy worked.

establ
December 4, 2020 11:18 am

Face Masks
In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Note: A COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) particle is 0.125 micrometers/microns (μm); influenza virus size is 0.08 – 0.12 μm; a human hair is about 150 μm.
https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/

Tom Abbott
Reply to  establ
December 4, 2020 12:07 pm

“we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks”

Someone ought to tell the nurses and doctors they are making a big mistake by wearing masks. Look at all these studies!

I guess those doctors and nurses can’t read.

icisil
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 12:21 pm

They can, but they don’t. Too caught up in system inertia and groupthink.

TonyG
Reply to  icisil
December 4, 2020 12:59 pm

I’m a first responder. While not EMT, I sometimes work with patients of various sorts. I wear a (surgical) mask when doing so, not only due to department regulations, but also to keep various bodily fluids from splashing on my nose and mouth!.

I have no illusions that it might be protecting me from an airborne virus or protecting anyone else from anything I might have. Although I will admit that the EMT beside me is probably more at risk of catching something from me than the patient, since that mask is very effective at deflecting my exhalations to the side.

Mad Mac
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 4:52 pm

I wore an N95 mask when examining patients and doing office surgery expressly to avoid fluids particularly blood being splashed on my face (also wore eye wear-magnifying glasses). Usually wound up with blood specks on my mask after using high speed instruments, occasionally a lot of blood if an artery was severed.
I was rarely sick with a cold and don’t remember having the flu. I walk in the open spaces w/o a mask; there are rarely more than 5-10 people that I see on a 4-5 mile walk. I ignore the signs that mandate a mask in these areas.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  TonyG
December 5, 2020 6:05 am

“since that mask is very effective at deflecting my exhalations to the side.”

I would say you need to wear a better mask. One that doesn’t deflect your exhalation to the side.

An N95 mask will not deflect your exhalation to the side because it is not open on the sides.

Judging all masks by an inferior mask doesn’t do justice to the superior mask.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 5, 2020 2:50 pm

The vast majority of people do not have N95 masks. The so-called “inferior” mask that I’m wearing is the same as what almost everyone else is wearing. You can’t say that N95 masks work, therefore mask mandates work, unless everyone is using N95’s.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  TonyG
December 5, 2020 6:09 am

” I wore an N95 mask when examining patients. . .I was rarely sick with a cold and don’t remember having the flu.”

Makes sense to me.

AWG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 3:01 pm

Lets unpackage your latest “argument”.
In response to the various studies performed on NPI where “no significant reduction…” was found, you blurt out some non-sequitur “doctors and nurses can’t read”.

It must be nice to have a child’s understanding of the world around them. In the real world, there are bureaucrats and people who want to earn their food pellets. In the case of hospitals, the FedGov wanted to reduce the number of Medicare patients that picked up infections while in the hospital and needed to return after being discharged. How they enforced it was by telling hospitals they won’t be paying for patients returning.

This caused the administrators in the various hospital chains to go in to crisis mode. Many hastily formed ad hoc blue ribbon panels of policy makers to implement policies that would work towards reducing infections. So bureaucrats and control freaks did what they always do, relied on their own imagination – sort of like you, to invent ways to reduce infections.

Just like you don’t need any evidence at all to treat the face mask as a talisman against viruses, neither did these bureaucrat policy-makers. Their orders were to “Do Something”. All kinds of crazy policies were created and enforced at Stalinist levels. Requiring booties on shoes for one, no matter how ineffective or costly. Surgeons would on occasion bring in brief cases with things they would need for operations, the bureaucrats “knew” that this was a vector for viruses so they required those briefcases to be wrapped in a garbage bag, because we all know that Hefty sterilizes their bags and hermetically seals them before shipping to retail outlets.

Another brilliant idea came from the belief that the normal shedding of skin cells will cause plagues to spread, so they required staff to tuck in the blouses of their scrubs into their pants otherwise deadly skin cells would fall from the abdomen and kill people. One nurse recalls being sent out of the emergency room to quickly retrieve some life-saving equipment, as she was running out the door, one of the physicians who was on the taskforce stopped her and gave her a lengthy reprimand and lecture on how dangerous and reckless her behavior was – all the while the time was ticking on the patient under anesthesia.

Obedience was more important than a human life.

People naturally fall into cargo cult behavior, too busy to consider the evidence and empiricism but rather rely on uninformed inference – or fear of losing their job if not following orders to the letter.

I submit, that you, Tom, fall into the category of where willful ignorance meets arrogance, where your own wisdom doesn’t need to be challenged by realty, and the force of your conviction in being right in your own eyes entitles you to hector people to surrender to your fickle demands.

Maybe a little humility and the willingness to ask “Why are we doing this” would go a long way in making for civil conversation.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  AWG
December 5, 2020 6:16 am

“Maybe a little humility and the willingness to ask “Why are we doing this” would go a long way in making for civil conversation.”

I’m not the one being uncivil. You are the one calling names.

Bottom line: There are just as many studies claiming masks are effective as there are studies that claim they are not. At this point, you get to choose whatever your personal perference is, as there is no definitive answer either way.

I happen to think a mask is better than no mask, and so I will wear a mask when appropriate. Others can do as they choose. There is probably a study backing up their choice, whatever it is.

icisil
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 5, 2020 7:39 am

For some it’s a matter of choosing which conclusion they want, but for others it’s a matter of choosing which data are better quality. RCTs show that surgical masks do not reduce viral transmission, and only some observational studies show they do. If a person chooses the lower quality data (observational studies) then that’s a sign that they are choosing the conclusion they want

MarkG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 4:09 pm

Another study has shown that infection rates didn’t go up when surgeons stopped wearing masks in surgery.

Which kind of leaves you wondering what exactly masks ARE good for. I guess TonyG may be right that they do stop the surgeon from getting body goop in their face.

M__ S__
December 4, 2020 11:19 am

Request denied

Doonman
December 4, 2020 11:21 am

I always ask my liberal friends why wearing condoms was not mandated by liberal politicians during the HIV epidemic. Not one has ever suggested they should have.

n.n
Reply to  Doonman
December 4, 2020 2:08 pm

They may have saved the lives of several hundred thousand trans/homosexual males and mitigated progressive conditions. Perhaps they were the victims of another Planned Population scheme. Disposable.

RockyRoad
December 4, 2020 11:26 am

I’ll tape half a Kleenex to my nose and call that my mask. I’ll call them racists if they object.

Carlo, Monte
December 4, 2020 11:26 am

Idiot (Dementia Joe).

n.n
December 4, 2020 11:27 am
icisil
Reply to  n.n
December 5, 2020 6:09 am

Order of magnitude drop in mortality after ivermectin adopted in Argentina study

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1333946224714649601

Tom Abbott
Reply to  n.n
December 5, 2020 6:41 am

“Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture”

I’m taking Quercetin, which is an Ionophore, along with lots of zinc and vitamin D. Hoping that will be enough.

The Regeneron cocktail Trump took is probably the most promising drug for treatment of the Wuhan virus. It is tailored specifically for the Wuhan virus. The unknows about it are how soon will it be available to the general public and how much will it cost.

I wouldn’t hesitate to take Hydroxychloriquine if I got infected before the Regereron medication was available. 🙂 I also hear Ivermectin is effective and it only takes one dose as a treatment. It is said to also work well along side Hydroxychloriquine.

I think the trick is you have to slow down replication of the the Wuhan virus enough to allow the human immune system to recognize it and get on top of it, and these medications do that, by interfering with the Wuhan virus progression.

We should definitely be treating high-risk populations as soon as possible after they test positive. We should not leave them sitting at home while the virus continues to do damage in their bodies.

My heating and cooling guy came over the other day to do some work for me and told me he got the Wuhan virus a few months ago. It’s spreading like wildfire now for some reason. We have drugs to treat it, if the authorities would deign to change the rules a little.

Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 11:32 am

Well, let’s see, we are having a problem with Wuhan virus patients filling up our hospitals.

The Hydroychloriquine has been shown to be 84 percent effective at keeping Wuhan virus patients out of the hospital if given early enough in the course of infection.

Does anyone see a solution to our overcroweded hospitals here?

Ivermectin is also supposed to be effective at keeping people infected with the Wuhan virus out of the hospital, if given early enough in the course of the infection.

The Regeneron cocktail President Trump took for his Wuhan virus infection will keep people out of the hospital if given early enough in the infection.

The problem is the United States does not have a good policy for handling the Wuhan virus. When people test positive, the standard way our system handles it is to tell the patient to stay home and no medications are given to them at this stage. So a lot of people who would not have gone to the hospital if treated early, end up in the hospital.

This is easily fixed with a policy change, if politics can be kept out of it.

Why is the official medical community in the U.S. ignoring the benefits of treating the Wuhan virus early in the progress of the disease? Answer: Pure politics. Pure Trump Derangement Syndrome.

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 11:55 am

if given early enough in the course of the infection.
Seems to be a pattern here. But for some insane reason, the CDC recommended treatment protocols, as you mention, suggest no early treatment. It’s almost like they WANT this outcome.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  TonyG
December 4, 2020 12:44 pm

I don’t think the Powers-that-Be want people to die, they just don’t want anything positive to be connected to President Trump, or they fear doing something that will appear favorable to Trump, thus bringing down the wrath of the Left upon them.

If we started talking about early treatment of the Wuhan virus it would necessarily bring up the subject of hydroychloriquine and that is solidly connected with Trump now.

Early treatment can’t hurt. None of the drugs we are talking about are dangerous in the doses used and there are probably a dozen different drugs that appear to be effective to one degree or another like Ivermectin, where a patient takes a one-time, 12 miligram dose.

So early treatment is not all about hydroxychloriquine, but that will be the focus in any discussion I think.

Now, would seem to be the perfect time to try out this method of early treatment. As I said, the latest hydroxycholoriquine study says it kept 84 percent of patients treated from having to go to the hospital. It’s cheap, it’s available everywhere, and it is effective if given early enough in the infection. And it is one of about a dozen treatments available, so we don’t have to focus on one drug.

The problem is the medical community (with a lot of exceptions) is not focused on early treatment of the Wuhan virus with the drugs we already have available. Perhaps the hospital overcrowding will bring a new focus to this problem. They have a solution, early treatment, they just need to implement it. And soon, from the looks of things.

The Medical Community should announce an official policy to treat the Wuhan virus with medications as soon as a person tests positive. They don’t have to specify what that treatment will be, they can leave that to the indivdual doctor. They just need to convey to the doctors and the general public that this is a viable solution to hospital overcrowding.

icisil
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 12:30 pm

Ivermectin is supposedly effective at all stages of illness. I gleaned that from this guy, who IMO is the best goto for treatments.

https://twitter.com/__ice9

icisil
Reply to  icisil
December 4, 2020 2:17 pm

Here’s his compilation of various treatments

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1330584078995877888.html

Tom Abbott
Reply to  icisil
December 5, 2020 6:48 am

And Ivermectin might be easier to get than Hydroxycholoriquine when the politics are considered. There is no “Trump stigma” on Ivermectin, like there is on Hydroxycholoriquine.

Thanks for those links.

William Astley
December 4, 2020 11:32 am

So, we are all talking about what Biden has said, because we assume Biden is going to become president. At this point in the ‘script’ things just start to get interesting.

What about covid origins? 2020 US election fixing? There sure is lots and lots of evidence. What is up? Could they all be related? Is there a China connection? How serious is this China take over the world idea? Could that ‘idea’ which they cannot stop now, get carried away? i.e. Could a good country do a bad thing and start something that is bad?

Things must really be ‘bad’, as even the BBC is waking up to the Chinese plot to steal stuff from the US and to interfere in US politics.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177975

What will or will not happen in the future is absolutely determined by what is or is not true. Not what you believe will happen.

According to Q (from the ‘script’ which provides up to this point in time an exact explanation of what is going to happen along with a helpful explanation of why different groups do what they do and who knows what at different times; and the existence and seizure of the CIA Frankfurt server why it was taken, how many US soldiers will die in its capture, what is on the Frankfurt server, what is done with that evidence, and so on. 100% to this point in time, of course ‘time’ will tell.)

According to the script. Trump is not going to concede the 2020 US election. Correct so far. Rep have raised $200 million for legal efforts.

Q predicts Trump will not succeed in overturning the US election, however, that will not matter as Biden will decide he does not want to be president and that will take the wind out of the sails of the Dems who are going to be upset about what is going to happen.

Before Jan Milt release, the HCQ cocktail info will be released to US pubic. Soon after Vit D covid info will be released. According to Q the US Milt Intelligence is going to release this info as a counterintelligence strategy before the Jan Milt info release.

This info if true is politically powerful and its release would provide evidence of a new player in the game.

And in Jan the US Milt is going release info on the covid origin, China involvement, and the alleged CIA/FBI interference in the 2020 US election.

Q predicts the CIA Frankfurt server will be the biggest find/cause the greatest change in world intelligence history.

https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2020/11/21/trump-orders-useucom-to-seize-scytl-servers-in-germany/

Tom Abbott
Reply to  William Astley
December 4, 2020 12:51 pm

“2020 US election fixing? There sure is lots and lots of evidence. What is up? Could they all be related? Is there a China connection?”

Well, for what it is worth, there is a story out there that a Swiss bank with big ties to China made a loan to the Dominion vote counting company of about $400 million on October 8, 2020.

If Trump manages to stay in Office, there are going to be a lot of people going to jail for vote fraud.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 6:50 pm

Attorney General Willam Barr hasn’t found any voter fraud.

Tom Abbott
December 4, 2020 11:39 am

From the article: “oe Biden said Thursday that he will ask Americans to commit to 100 days of wearing masks as one of his first acts as president, stopping just short of the nationwide mandate he’s pushed before to stop the spread of the coronavirus.”

The reason he stopped short is because the president does not have the power to mandate nationwide mask wearing, unless he wants to declare Martial Law which suspends the U.S. Constitution. A step too big even for Joe “Traitor” Biden.

Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 11:44 am

Both MSM and Biden think he is president elect. He isn’t, yet. SCOTUS will weigh in on PA illegality, federal judge will weigh in on NV, and the state legislatures will weigh in on AZ,GA., and possibly WI. Any three of those four puts the election under the 12th amendment passed in 1804 to resolve the A2§1.3 mess in Jefferson’s 1800 election, where the 12A House vote (one per state) will be 26 Trump, 23 Biden, with PA deadlocked so no vote.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 12:33 pm

Rud, I tend to agree and want the outcome to be as described. But I can’t see how the establishment will let it happen. Today I watched CCTV video taken in the State Farm Arena in Atlanta of a GA when everyone was ordered to vacate the building for the night pending a return the following day. Unfortunately, when all key players, press and observers had left the Dem workers returned to start loading suitcases full of ‘votes’ into the Dominion machines. YET – nothing from the MSN. Crickets!!

https://joannenova.com.au/2020/12/cameras-catch-dems-pulling-suitcases-of-ballots-from-under-tables-in-georgia-in-the-dead-of-night/

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Harry Passfield
December 4, 2020 2:51 pm

Harry, its worse than JoNova portrayed. Despite the bombshell video yesterday, Fulton County certified its corrupted vote today.
On a positive note, what the video does is give the GA legislature ammo to ‘take over’. Same reason Rudy and Jenna also held ‘bombshell’ legislative hearings in and specific to MI and AZ. The political route of A2§1.2.
The alternative court route is PA since already at SCOTUS, and NV.
Repub Govs Kemp in GA and Ducey in AZ know they are toast in their next elections if they don’t politically respond appropriately no matter how RINO they may be.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 5:14 pm

Face it Rud, Trump lost. Based on the number of lawsuits thrown out due to lack of evidence, the political solution is going against the vote of the people. Please respect the voters, as voters not lawyers elect the president.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 5, 2020 2:20 am

Simon, are you same Simon who posts over at Jo’s blog? If so, your posts here are just as simple as they are there – demonstrating your total lack of any knowledge of how polling in elections is controlled and managed. Then again, I daresay your fiends in the CCP would have similarly little knowledge of how free and fair elections are managed.

MarkW
Reply to  Harry Passfield
December 4, 2020 3:51 pm

The state of GA has decided to ignore this video and go ahead and certify the election.

icisil
Reply to  Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 12:35 pm

An interesting site to monitor election fraud matters.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 12:58 pm

Imo, Trump’s chances are getting a little bit better.

It is a crime against the American public that the Leftwing News Media is completely censoring Trump on a subject that is vital to every freedom-loving American.

The reason they censor Trump is because they have something to hide.

Trump is going to expose them, even further than he already has. That’s what they are afraid of. That’s why they don’t want Americans to hear what Trump has to say.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 3:16 pm

Rud,
You left out one critical point. The Electoral Colleges meet in their home states on Dec 14th to vote for the President and Vice President, in separate votes, it is not a package deal. As you know, that is the election day. Those results will be counted on Jan 6th so we will have to wait until then. In a possible ironic turn of events, imagine what would happen if the Electors vote for Biden but not for Harris. Biden/Pence. Perhaps that would be a healing combination.
To clarify for those who do not understand, if neither Biden or Trump received 270 or more electoral votes, the 12th Amendment would kick in as Rud said. Voting would be done by the newly seated Congress. This also applies for the VP. If neither VP candidate gets 270 or more the vote goes to the Senate and a simple majority wins. That is another reason for the Republicans to hold the Senate.

MarkG
Reply to  Tom in Florida
December 4, 2020 3:44 pm

There will never be healing if the Democrats blatantly steal the election. Nor will anyone ever take another election seriously afterwards.

If they get away with this, they’ll steal every election from now on, even if they have to print a hundred million votes to do so.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkG
December 4, 2020 5:46 pm

Why do you think the Democrats have opposed every method to ensure that only those eligible to vote do so? And when they started losing that battle decided to push for making all elections mail in only.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom in Florida
December 4, 2020 3:53 pm

I thought the current Senate would vote on the VP while the next House of Reps would vote for president.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 7:22 pm

The new Senate is seated at the same time as the new House, Jan 3. However, the runoff in Georgia will take place on Jan 5 so I don’t know how that would work out for those Senators. But per the 12th Amendment, only a simple majority in the Senate would elect the VP. Keep in mind that Pence will still be VP on Jan 6th and can cast a deciding vote in case of a tie.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Rud Istvan
December 4, 2020 5:16 pm

PS Rud, at 2am on the day after the election, Trump declared himself the winner based on the reporting of the MSM. So even he acknowledges their role in this.

MarkW
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 5:48 pm

The media weren’t in on the Democrats schemes to create after hours votes. It’s not surprising that they were caught flat footed.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 6:46 pm

LOL “caught”……sorry, AG Barr has found nothing, and he works for Trump.

Carl Friis-Hansen
December 4, 2020 11:54 am

What about isolating the virus first!

Let me explain.
Prof. Christian Drosten is Germany’s Fauci.
Three Germans (I have not received permission to mention their names) will give Drosten ~$30,000 for the following:

I bet 10,000 euros they can’t isolate a Covid19 virus. Take it

The original bet from one person 10,000 was increased by two others with each 10,000

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Carl Friis-Hansen
December 4, 2020 2:38 pm

Carl, hate to say this to you here, but the ‘virus hasn’t been isolated yet’ is just nonsense.
It was isolated in late Jan 2020, and the full RNA sequence was published before end Feb. (BTW, this is now fairly easy to do using modern molecular biology, and then to prove in vitro.)
That is how Gilead realized early March that remdesivir might work. Regeneron’s synthetic monoclonal antibody cocktail targets both the S-1 and S-2 binding sites on the spike protein. They started development early March this year using their proprietary platform of humanized mice and a bioreactor cell culture line. Lilly’s monoclonal targets the S-1.
The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines both also target S-1. Both are ~95% effective in phase three human clinical trials. More proof we got the viral RNA sequence ‘right’ early in 2020.

All of this is fact, and none of it would have been possible if the virus had not been isolated and sequenced many months ago in early 2020.

MarkW
December 4, 2020 12:22 pm

100 days will get us into May, at a time you could expect cases to start falling as spring takes over from winter.
Plus the vaccine would have been out for 2 to 3 months as well.

In other words, Biden will be well positioned to claim that his mask request saved 500 million Americans from an untimely death. And of course to claim that nobody would have died had only Trump cared enough to make the same request.

bluecat57
December 4, 2020 12:30 pm

He can have that for himself and his followers. Wait a second. They’ve all been wearing their masks over their eyes for quite some time already so they can’t see the fraud.

_Jim
December 4, 2020 12:36 pm

So the ‘crime boss’ says we “gotta mask up”

No.

u.k.(us)
December 4, 2020 1:17 pm

What ever happened to the times when past Presidents would just sit on the sidelines and keep their mouth shut ?
Was there ever such a time ??
This is a real question.

MarkW
Reply to  u.k.(us)
December 4, 2020 3:56 pm

There was such a time, and so far the Republicans have stuck to the old standard.
Hopefully Trump will be the first ex-president to meet the Democrats on their own ground.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  MarkW
December 4, 2020 5:28 pm

If Trump ever leaves the scene. the Media will crash and burn.
What else would they talk about ?

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  u.k.(us)
December 4, 2020 6:43 pm

Kim Kardashian

u.k.(us)
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
December 4, 2020 7:42 pm

I have heard of her.
Here is a better one.
“If the method suits the style
We put the mind on idle
And let the others take it for a while”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx7XbV82JfQ

Crank it 🙂

Tim Gorman
December 4, 2020 1:41 pm

Biden: “And I think we’ll see a significant reduction” in the virus, Joe Biden said”

Who in Pete’s name cares one whit what *BIDEN* thinks about the efficacy of wearing a mask?

JC
December 4, 2020 2:40 pm

Masks are useless. Single layer woven fabric does nothing. Surgical mask are only slightly better and only if they are properly worn. N95 masks, the miracle mask, only filters particles down to about .3 microns. The virus is .1 microns. Now I’ve heard all the “experts” tells us that they will still filter out the virus because the virus is always attached to something bigger. This is an assumption on their part, they have little to no hard data. Even if we assume this to be true where do these particles go. Into the mask where moisture will evaporate and air will still carry the virus out. Even the experts tell us that N95 masks must be change on regular basis to be effective at all. They also must be properly fit to the wearer. Now last I checked most of the N95 masks you can get off the internet are fakes. Most of the real supply is reserved for the front line workers, doctors and nurses, as it should be.
If you must feel like you are doing something then by all means, wear a face diaper. You can have your warm fuzzy but don’t for one instant think that you will be protected from a virus.
Anyone who has seen movies about contagions have seen the hazards suits that people wear when dealing with a deadly virus. These are relatively accurate. Now you tell me. Why would these people go to all that effort if all they had to do is wear a mask?

Melvyn Dackombe
Reply to  JC
December 5, 2020 5:45 am

Totally agree JC.

The other aspect never mentioned is that the virus can just as easily enter the body via eyes, therefore why no regulations to mandate eye protection ?

TonyG
Reply to  Melvyn Dackombe
December 5, 2020 1:42 pm

why no regulations to mandate eye protection ?
Fauci has already suggested it, so it might be coming.

TonyG
Reply to  JC
December 5, 2020 1:34 pm

I had to wear a mask for a couple hours this morning while handling some food. Cloth mask. By the end of the 2 hours, it was so wet, all the way through, I could squeeze liquid from it.

How is that doing any good at all. If I had THE VIRUS, what sort of viral load would I have been throwing out all over the food I was handling and the people around me?

MarkW
December 4, 2020 3:27 pm

What the Republicans need to do is get someone to convince AOC to run for speaker of the house.
Then get all of the Republicans to vote for her.

Make AOC the face and voice of the Democrats for the next 2 years.

TonyG
Reply to  MarkW
December 5, 2020 1:32 pm

I actually like that idea. Too bad not enough Reps in congress have the necessary to do it.

Steve45
Reply to  MarkW
December 5, 2020 10:27 pm

At least she has a degree Marky- which is more than you! Bwahahaha…

KT66
December 4, 2020 3:48 pm

With all the emphasis on masks are people no longer paying as much attention to hand hygiene and keeping commonly touched surfaces and objects wiped down?

Making healthy people stay home and inside will not help the drop off in vitamin D as we enter the winter months.

TonyG
Reply to  KT66
December 5, 2020 1:37 pm

are people no longer paying as much attention to hand hygiene and keeping commonly touched surfaces and objects wiped down?

I have no statistical data, but my personal observations indicate that they aren’t doing the other stuff – sanitation AND distancing. Nor are they wearing masks properly.

Joz Jonlin
December 4, 2020 4:58 pm

Unless I just can’t get away with it, I refuse to wear a mask. Sorry, I’ve had the WuFlu and it will be some time before I’m at risk. With my wife and kids, I can say we’ve had hangnails more troublesome than the WuFlu.

Steve Reddish
Reply to  Joz Jonlin
December 4, 2020 10:20 pm

I’m curious whether survivors will be exempt from having to wear masks, and exemp from any vaccine mandate.

Editor
December 4, 2020 6:24 pm

It is funny when governments thinks guaranteeing the HEALTHY will magically stop the viral spread.

BobM
December 4, 2020 7:17 pm

Rioters, too?

Demonstrators?

I can see a LOT of family and friend demonstrations coming. First Amendment demonstrations, you know, “the right of the people peaceably to assemble” doesn’t say anything about masks.

anna v
December 4, 2020 10:24 pm

Here is the world data https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?

I pick some significant countries:

US first in number of cases , 861 deaths per million of population

Japan 45th in number of cases 18 deaths per million

Australia 95th in number of cases 35 deaths per million

To fit these data is a multi-parameter model is needed . There are great differences in behavior of populations.

Do not forget that epidemics rely on statistical probabilities. A large virus load has to attack in order for the virus to overcome the immune system. We are continually attacked by various viruses, and most of them are stopped by the immune system .

The difference in the numbers , at least between Australia and US, cannot be genetic.

“how probable is it to get infected strongly enough to die “. From the data it is much more improbable in Japan then in the US.

I believe that it is a matter not only of rules, but also on *complying with the rules*. We do not go the wrong way on a one way street because we live in an organized society that limits our freedoms so more people can live . If we take traffic rules a la cart death rates from accidents will soar.

Unfortunately in the countries with high death rates the rules have been taken a la cart , as is seen by the demonstrations against the lockdowns in many of the high death rate countries.

How many of Trump followers followed his live example of not distancing and wearing a mask? From the US numbers I would say ” a lot” .

Even if masks and distancing (the third hand washing) are 50% effective in preventing large loads of viruses to disperse in crowded conditions, this would lead to 50% less deaths per million.

Japanese are known for their mask wearing and distancing ( no hugs and kissing,no shoes in the house) . Their economy is practically not closed and the metro is crowded with masked people not allowed to talk! (keep your virus load to yourself).

Evidently Australians follow the rules too. Greeks were good at the first lockdown, but restless and disobedient as a race ( there is a proverb: the neck of a Greek cannot have a halter) so we are somewhere in the middle range of deaths per million.

Again , keep in mind, it is all about probability. Nature devised our nose as a mask for all the infections coming through the air , so that the immune system takes care of them. Giving the nose some extra help is a good idea for self protection too, not only of others, as it is good to keep the distance and wash hands.

Lets hope that this virus also goes the way of the other corona viruses and we get it as sniffles or a cold in the years to come. I think that as we live in an organized society, we should follow health rules the way we follow traffic rules , for the good of all, not for satisfying rebellious teenage impulses.

buggs
Reply to  anna v
December 7, 2020 10:11 am

I would suggest that while some of what you suggest is true, you’re also seeing a correlation where you want to see it.

Try a different comparison: Canada and Australia and see what conclusions you can come to. We have the anti-Trump leading our country: someone completely enamored of China, the U.N. and control of the population. Our countries are approximately the same size, have similar populations both in total and in terms of population density.

Yet our numbers, as we enter into the fall/winter are not doing the pretty things that Australia did. Quite the opposite in fact. This isn’t altogether surprising given we’re heading towards our traditional flu season. The weather in Canada is rather dramatically different than Australia during the winter. While it’s true that Tasmania and higher elevations get snow, much of Canada is blanketed with snow for 3-4 months with substantially colder temperatures for longer durations.

Several provinces have had mandatory mask mandates in place since September. Where I live we had mandatory masks for indoor places since September 25th – 73 days now. (good luck Joe, 100 days won’t do diddly other than coincide with spring which will give you the appearance of effect you want, to the detriment of the following winter season if the vaccines aren’t as effective as claimed).

Many locations in Canada have locked down all but essential services. Want to go to a restaurant? Forget it. You can get takeout or delivery but no eating in (or out in tents as the U.S. has been doing which is comical). Want to browse for a book? Nope, that’s currently illegal. Anyone not selling what has been deemed essential (food, liquor, toiletries) is shut down and has been now for a month and it’s going to destroy businesses. We are functionally nearly under house arrest (you can go outside for walks, but all recreational facilities are closed and have been for well over a month) and have been told to stay home other than to go to work, for those that still have to go out (and are fortunate enough to be employed).

We’ve done what the most extreme advocates would have us do (and will never fly in the U.S.), kowtowing to every rule. We aren’t Americans, we don’t fight for civil liberties. Mask compliance is probably near 100% indoors (you’ll get thrown out if you go into a grocery store without a mask).

What’s the end result? Close to the highest test positivity rate found anywhere. Generally a non-stop increasing case load. https://www.gov.mb.ca/covid19/index.html

Suffice to say I remain unconvinced that masks are doing much of anything.

TonyG
Reply to  buggs
December 7, 2020 11:27 am

We’ve done what the most extreme advocates would have us do (and will never fly in the U.S.), kowtowing to every rule. We aren’t Americans, we don’t fight for civil liberties.

Most Americans don’t seem to be doing so either.

you can go outside for walks

In Los Angeles, you can’t even do that now.

December 5, 2020 2:53 am

I just had a frightening insight. No one is actually competent to run the world, or if they are, is above corruption.

That is the greatest indictment of Leftism – Liberalism to you US citizens – there is.

So how can the world be regulated? By humbly fixing what nearly everybody agrees is broken, and by humbly supporting whatever has been shown to work well enough to get us here.

In short, conservatism.

Which is why I am an atheist who supports Christianity. It works, and if the price of that is believing in something unprovable, so be it.

mwhite
December 5, 2020 6:18 am

Poop and Covid19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro8bCCulcyY

Don’t forget that butt plug.

December 5, 2020 6:49 am

NOPE !!!
and
HECK NOPE !!!!