As noted previously by Leo Goldstein, there has been a coordinated attempt by institutional press and academia to discredit the use of Hydroxychloroquine.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/11/distributed-denial-of-hcq-to-covid-19-victims/
As noted in yesterday’s edition of Science:
A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling
By Kelly Servick, Martin EnserinkJun. 2, 2020 , 7:55 PM
On its face, it was a major finding: Antimalarial drugs touted by the White House as possible COVID-19 treatments looked to be not just ineffective, but downright deadly. A study published on 22 May in The Lancet used hospital records procured by a little-known data analytics company called Surgisphere to conclude that coronavirus patients taking chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine were more likely to show an irregular heart rhythm—a known side effect thought to be rare—and were more likely to die in the hospital.
Within days, some large randomized trials of the drugs—the type that might prove or disprove the retrospective study’s analysis—screeched to a halt. Solidarity, the World Health Organization’s (WHO’s) megatrial of potential COVID-19 treatments, paused recruitment into its hydroxychloroquine arm, for example. (Update: At a briefing on 3 June WHO announced it would resume that arm of the study.)
And we all saw the screaming news stories.
Several studies have found that the malaria drug — highly touted by President Trump, who says he takes it — is harmful to patients–People.com
And shortly thereafter.
But just as quickly, the Lancet results have begun to unravel—and Surgisphere, which provided patient data for two other high-profile COVID-19 papers, has come under withering online scrutiny from researchers and amateur sleuths.
Things moved quickly.
Today, The Lancet issued an Expression of Concern (EOC) saying “important scientific questions have been raised about data” in the paper and noting that “an independent audit of the provenance and validity of the data has been commissioned by the authors not affiliated with Surgisphere and is ongoing, with results expected very shortly.”
Hours earlier, The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) issued its own EOC about a second study using Surgisphere data, published on 1 May
Bizarre age we live in, where an entire FIELD is hijacked in order to discredit an individual–to the point of killing people.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Take a look at the background for Surgisphere exposed by the Guardian :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine
CEO of Surgisphere is a Sapan Desai :
This what the Guardian says about him, and his defence of himself:
-“‘The peak of human evolution’
An examination of Desai’s background found that the vascular surgeon has been named in three medical malpractice suits in the US, two of them filed in November 2019. In one case, a lawsuit filed by a patient, Joseph Vitagliano, accused Desai and Northwest Community Hospital in Illinois, where he worked until recently, of being “careless and negligent”, leading to permanent damage following surgery.
Northwest Community Hospital confirmed that Desai had been employed there since June 2016 but had voluntarily resigned on 10 February 2020 “for personal reasons”.
“Dr Desai’s clinical privileges with NCH were not suspended, revoked or otherwise limited by NCH,” a spokeswoman said. The hospital declined to comment on the malpractice suits. Desai said in the interview with the Scientist that he deemed any lawsuit against him to be “unfounded”.
……
“Desai’s now-deleted Wikipedia page said he held a doctorate in law and a PhD in anatomy and cell biology, as well as his medical qualifications. A biography of Desai on a brochure for an international medical conference says he has held multiple physician leadership roles in clinical practice, and that he is “a certified lean six sigma master black belt”.
It is not the first time Desai has launched projects with ambitious claims. In 2008, he launched a crowdfunding campaign on the website indiegogo promoting a “next generation human augmentation device” called Neurodynamics Flow, which he said “can help you achieve what you never thought was possible”.
“With its sophisticated programming, optimal neural induction points, and tried and true results, Neurodynamics Flow allows you to rise to the peak of human evolution,” the description said. The device raised a few hundred dollars, and never eventuated.”-
With such people representing those that national leaders claim are the scientists leading the fight against Wuhan flu and advising the policies it is no wonder so many have died and our economies are in tatters.
In the UK we now have the distinction of the worst death rate / capita in the world and no sign of it declining significantly, unlike all our european neighbours. We are reaping the rewards of getting rid of properly trained scientists and engineers as leaders of public science councils and replacing them with political place men and women.
shoot thought I posted that with my initial comment, thanks for posting it.
The Lancet has now earned a reputation for publishing dodgy medical research that results in people making deadly decisions. Some of you may not remember this: Lancet retracts Wakefield’s MMR paper https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)11096-0/fulltext
Why they have not been sued for reckless endangerment for not properly vetting what they publish is surprising. Both this and the Wakefield research seem to have been shown untrustworthy with very little effort, yet it took The Lancet a full decade to retract the Wakefield paper.
Wakefield’s paper was problematic with a few ethical issues, but it was never proven to be fraudulent. It was treated as such by the Establishment; big diff.
exactly Wakefields actual rsult and what it promoted as were vastly differing
but the media and the sheepies believing em never DO read the actual trials data.
all too hard
and I really AM waiting for the day he get the apologies he deserves for linking gut bacteria to IQ and cognition problems
almost monthly we see more research proving gut bacteria and issues with parkinsons autism and a slew of other neuro diseases.
minute absorbption of organophospahtes over decades as well as not so minute glyphosate etc all accumulate in bodies and afftect hormonal areas as well as gut and other functions.
we ARE (affected by) what we eat basically.
and what meds we take or get injected.
heres a funny thing
inhaled anaesthesias are found to be causing some nasty health problems
so adults now get injectable forms wherever possible
but
kids get the gas still
takes longer for their cancers etc to show up….
The response from Surgisphere:
https://surgisphere.com/2020/05/29/response-to-widespread-reaction-to-recent-lancet-article-on-hydroxychloroquine/
I believe that HCQ is safe because if there were any chance at all that it was unsafe, there would be thousands of commercials on TV from Morgan&Morgan, Goldwater law firm or hundreds of others asking us to join a class action lawsuit. The fact that this isn’t happening shows that there is no case to be made.
Another study shows the drug fails to prevent COVID-19: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trial-results/
Henry: That is a great link to illustrate the hate and ill reporting that comes from the WaPo. Thank you for pointing it out for us so we can flag it just in case we click on it by mistake.
You can find poop as well as any fly… don’t let anyone tell you any different. OK?
Shooting the messenger doesn’t get rid of the message Mario. That study was a double blind on a large population of health care workers.
Henry: Evidently you did not understand the words I wrote, so let me clarify…
Your reputation is consistent enough that we all know what to do with your endorsements without wasting precious time. So I thank you for that.
Your posts do not have the effect you think they have, but they are entertaining (when I am in the mood for a laugh). That link you posted will get no click from me.
And to be clear, I mean this with no sarcasm.
Mario, if you don’t like WaPo, how about Newsweek, or USA Today?
…
Same study, different messengers.
…
https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-doesnt-prevent-covid-19-study-shows-undermining-trumps-campaign-drug-1508554
…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/06/03/coronavirus-study-finds-drug-touted-trump-doesnt-prevent-covid-19/3135158001/
Again Henry: You’ve helped me not click those links either! I appreciate your consistency.
And again, I read through the NEJM study. It’s irrelevantly about prevention. not about treatment. Henry’s argument is diversionary.
Frank, the drug neither prevents COVID-19 nor does is it an effective therapy.
HP, the 97% of the nursing home residents who didn’t die after they were treated with HCQ when their Texas facility became infected, and their doctor would disagree.
Got a link for that ICISIL?
Henry Pool, the NEJM study says nothing about treatment. It’s irrelevant.
So are your unsupported pronouncements.
I do, HP. but you could have easily googled it. I think it’s actually better than 97%
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/80-patients-staff-members-come-coronavirus-texas-nursing-home-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-saves-1-patient/
Newsweak is even more useless toxic fake news garbage than the WaCompost.
How about a link to the PAPER?
Here it is: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
Do a search on it. Not a single mention of zinc in the test protocol!
Junk “science” at its most blatant.
The Supporting Information says that they tested zinc and vitamin C as preventatives. But not as part of a treatment.
Neither HCQ nor zinc were touted as preventatives. Rather, the controversy is whether they limit the course of the disease once one has gotten it.
Exactly. This was not a cogent study or test or of any value. It intentionally, tries to avoid saving lives or helping people since it intentionally avoids proper application. HCQ with Zn together work. Without Zn, it’s effects are mostly not allowed to happen. It’s worse than a bait and switch.
My impression is, that a ten year old empty battery is more able to distinguish between treatment and prevention as you pretend to be.
The drug was given for 5 days. The incubation period is up to 14 days. The people that developed the disease (after the 5 days) could have been infected before the trial started. The anecdotal evidence early on suggested that the drug in combination with zinc does not directly attack the virus (and therefore is no cure once you are infected) but enhances the immune system and therefore could be a prophylactic; that’s how it works against malaria infection. The reports do not mention zinc and do not mention the severity of disease of those that developed it compared to the control group, only that there were no death in either.
Imho such a trial should at least take 2 weeks and possibly 4 before you can draw any conclusions.
“The anecdotal evidence early on suggested that the drug in combination with zinc does not directly attack the virus (and therefore is no cure once you are infected) but enhances the immune system and therefore could be a prophylactic; that’s how it works against malaria infection.”
The French doctor who did the big HCQ study said patients who recieved HCQ cleared the Wuhan virus from their bodies in about six days. That would be close enough to a cure to me. 🙂 The less time the virus spends in the body, the better.
One doctor in Dallas interviewed a few weeks ago said she was treating all her patients who had Wuhan virus with HCQ and she said all of them, from the sickest to the mildest cases were helped by the HCQ. She said she had some patients who made dramatic improvements in their condition in just a matter of hours after taking HCQ.
Dr. Seigel, the Fox News Channel medical consultant says HCQ saved his 95-year-old father’s life after he was infected with Wuhan virus.
There are too many doctors saying these same things about HCQ for it to be a figment of their imaginations or wishful thinking. They certainly cannot be reconciled with studies claiming no benefits.
Another proof that anti Trump people can’t even READ.
Another comment from Henry Pool showing us he isn’t able to think farther than 1m field path, thaks for that 😀
Enjoy reading this Krishna: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
Enjoy searching for this Henry – “zinc.” You shall not find a single mention in this example of junk science.
What does that study mean by saying people who took HCQ “developed covid-19”? They tested positive? They developed symptoms? They ended up in ICU? I haven’t read anyone saying that HCQ prevents infection or symptoms. It supposedly prevents disease progression to the stage that requires hospitalization. That’s really all that matters. Is this another RCT that was poisoned by purposeful ambiguity?
You’ve put your finger on the central issue, icisil.
HCQ is recommended for treatment. The NEJM paper is about prevention. It’s irrelevant.
Show us the double-blind randomized trial Frank, that proves “effectiveness.”
Diversion off point disallowed, Henry Pool.
Your post cited an irrelevancy.
The USA Today article says that the study shows HCQ doesn’t prevent infection. That’s a strawman because HCQ proponents aren’t claiming that HCQ prevents infections.
icsil, Trump started on it after some staff members tested positive, as a preventative. He was exactly the type of patient followed in this study.
Being infected or having symptoms is irrelevant. Progression to serious disease is the only thing that matters, and that is the real reason for taking HCQ prophylacticly, which this research did not study.
I’ve read the NEJM article. It looked at HCQ for prevention of Covid-19 infection, not its treatment.
The issue surrounding HCQ is about treatment of the disease, a better outcome and an earlier recovery. It’s not about prevention.
Touting the NEJM article as disproving anything relevant about the HCQ controversy is a false flag argument. A diversion.
Well Frank, please show us the double blind randomized study that shows that the drug works to “cure” the disease.
Not allowed to divert attention away from your failure, Henry.
The NEJM article is irrelevant.
AGAIN with the NEJM garbage article. Did not have zinc in the test protocol. DID have overdoses of the blue pill.
Rick Wilson writes
He is almost right… More like: everything and everybody that tries to hit Trump dies.
Well, follow the money. There is none for big pharma in a long off patent generic plus zinc. So this now discredited sketchy fringe ‘sciency’ stuff was from the beginning an ill concealed industry supported disinformation initiative. A Wuhan version of Mann’s hockey stick.
As posted previously, HCQ alone works by raising lysosomal pH, thus altering the ACE2 receptor subtly so the Wuhan spike protein 1 cannot bind as efficiently, preventing infection.. Adding zinc adds a second mechanism of action; HCQ is a zinc ionophore, and adding zinc to cytoplasm directly inhibits viral replication in epithelial cells. Double whammy on Wuhan. And the U Mn/McGill study results properly designed to prove same are due any day now.
This, Rud: “As posted previously, HCQ alone works by raising lysosomal pH, thus altering the ACE2 receptor subtly so the Wuhan spike protein 1 cannot bind as efficiently, preventing infection.. Adding zinc adds a second mechanism of action; HCQ is a zinc ionophore, and adding zinc to cytoplasm directly inhibits viral replication in epithelial cells. Double whammy on Wuhan.”
is a well constructed, well packed and concise packet of useful information! Thank you.
“is a well constructed, well packed and concise packet of useful information! Thank you.”
Rud is pretty good at doing that. 🙂
And you too Tom Abbott!
Well, follow the data Rud. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
Henry Pool: This was not a test to see if HCQ and Zn resulted in better outcomes. You have a severe level of comprehension deficit. It was a test to see if HCQ without Zn prevents people from exposure and that is not what advocates claim. It’s hard to talk with you because you’re level of cognizance is just too low.
Disclaimer: I failed to follow my rule by deciding to check to see if you were being consistent. And you were! You have proven to be a consistent useful idiot, but only useful to ignorant people. Why do you make it so easy.
You can’t follow a thread, you can’t read comments, you don’t understand comments and arguments, so ir seems to be better to ignore your “comments” leading into empty space, as empty as the room between your ears.
HCQ in India for prevention:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/4-hydroxychloroquine-hcq-doses-coronavirus-healthcare-workers-icmr-1684112-2020-06-01
Yeah, “big pharma” with allegedly all of the tools, power, and $$$ at their disposal…
-went with a small ragtag team of incompetent dolts to generate false information to discredit HCQ
-accidentally let them generate information that suggested the commonly-available and cheap ivermectin was effective at fighting COVID-19
-let a large population of their biggest current and future customers die-off from COVID-19 – sacrificing a huge current and future guaranteed revenue stream – for the opportunity of developing some possible treatment or vaccine that may never even happen (or is developed by a competitor instead)
Use some logic and reason when attempting to “follow the money.”
“-went with a small ragtag team of incompetent dolts to generate false information to discredit HCQ”
Exactly, Big Pharma has competent fakers!
“large population of their biggest current and future customers die-off from COVID-19”
When did that happen?
“for the opportunity of developing some possible treatment or vaccine that may never even happen (or is developed by a competitor instead)”
“Maybe” is still better than “no”.
And Big Pharma plays as a team.
Except Rud, HCQ damned well DOESN’T WORK….
The University of Minnesota study is a double-blind randomized clinical control trial, considered the gold standard in medicine.
Starting in mid-March, Boulware and his colleagues recruited 821 people in the US and Canada who had been exposed to Covid-19. Some were health care workers and others lived in the same house as someone with the virus. The median age was 40.
About half the study subjects were assigned to take hydroxychloroquine for five days, and the other half were assigned to take a placebo, or a pill that does nothing. Neither the researchers nor the study subjects knew who was taking which drug.
The researchers then monitored the study subjects for two weeks.
In the end, it didn’t matter if they received the drug or not: about 12% of those taking hydroxychloroquine came down with symptoms of Covid-19, compared to about 14% of those taking the placebo, a difference that was not statistically significant.
DMac
As has been pointed out endlessly, giving HCQ alone is useless, where it works it has to be paired with Zinc
What I read on the McGill study is it just gave HCQ or a placebo
Designed to fail, once again
Not only that, Pfk, the study was carried out over the internet, using self-reports of symptoms. The study physicians never met or examined the study subjects.
Of the entire cohort of 113 who reported covid-like symptoms (over the internet) only 16 were confirmed by PCR to have the virus.
The study clarified nothing.
Pat Frank
If it means nothing then 1+1 = nothing as well.
Maybe too small of a study, you will probably say, with only 800 subjects, only a few dozen infected, no deaths, over 2 countries to avoid TDS bias. You really think they gave out HCQ and didn’t test ? Too many asymptomatic infected for that…….so you need it to be inconclusive on how many thousand subjects subjects before you give up on this quack cure ?
There are also a number of other studies stopped because their sample was small and HCQ was identifiably NOT any magic bullet. Maybe try a search on “chloroquine not effective” instead of “chloroquine effective” for a start.
DMacKenzie, you neglected to mention that the subjects were recruited over the internet and neither met, nor were examined by, the study physicians.
You neglected to mention it was all self-reports of symptoms, again over the net.
You neglected to mention that 97 of the 113 positives were assigned by inference, rather than by test.
You neglected to mention that only 16 of the 113 positives were validated by PCR test to actually carry the virus.
You neglected to recognize that HCQ is recommended for treatment, but not for prevention.
Good job.
Pat,
Always some reason, given too early, given too late, given without zinc, given without azithromycin, not given in the right quantities…..HCQ believers have to face reality. CNS, chicken noodle soup is equal to this stuff for beating a Coronavirus. Now if you want to change the PH of your blood to kill the malaria parasite, it is proven useful for that purpose.
DMac, always some reason to cite irrelevant papers as though they had bearing. They don’t. Your argument doesn’t.
It’s also not unreasonable to require that proper conditions be detailed when conducting a test for efficacy. Do you disagree?
Pat,
it’s only irrelevant because you don’t like the answers it gives. Come up with something better that shows it works. Read Didier’s paper, the 6 Azithromycin subjects all recovered. Lots of hospitals are getting 98% recoveries without zinc or HCQ. So his sample was too small to deserve the acclaim that HCQ received as a result of it. He even said so himself. But something like climate science, the press got hold of it and made it a miracle cure.
DMac, do you understand that prevention does not mean treatment?
Is so obvious a distinction truly so difficult for you to grasp?
It appears you wish the obvious flaws with that paper to be set aside because you like the answers it gives.
Self-reported and unverified exposure to coronavirus – RED FLAG!
Drug protocol not following the “anecdotally” successful combination of HCQ and zinc – RED FLAG!
Self-reported and unverified adherence even to the faulty drug protocol – RED FLAG!
Self-reported and unverified subject outcomes – RED FLAG!
These “scientists” need to go see their fellows over in the Climate “Science” building. They have at least learned to cover their garbage with enough dirt that it requires some digging to find the toxic landfills that are their “research.”
Except believing in miracle HCQ cures is analagous to believing in catastrophic human caused climate change when the evidence points to such a conclusion being a huge exaggeration.
No miracles, DMac. Just taking notice of valid reports.
Also here with 1061 patients.
No matter that the issue is controverted, none of it justifies your absolutist declarations.
Rud, excellent comment.
Re: “A Wuhan version of Mann’s hockey stick.” I see it somewhat differently.
Every “study” seems to have deliberately missed the point, and then breathlessly released results to the ill-informed media, in artful misdirection of the truth. This was exactly the same as the multiple “investigations” after Climategate, which deliberately missed the point and reported meaningless results with the specific intention of hiding the facts. It is the politicized and illiterate media that makes the strategy effective.
It is a tactic of liars to put you off the truth. Once the truth is dismissed as an option, everything else is based on a foundation of lies and half truth. This way, the liar/ scammer can fleece you of more money.
Eventually, you pick an outright untruth, an inconsistency or it all just becomes too insane to believe-you just can’t buy it anymore. Something twigs-that penny drop moment of clarity. Then it dawns on you that the whole scenario was a crock and you got sucked in. You kick yourself for having believed so much rubbish.
Hydroxychloroquine is the cure- staring us in the face, but those on the hustle that stand to make trillions from a vaccine as well as insidious control via verification procedures do not want us to use it. They scream blue murder to protect their scam from being uncovered-name calling, baseless smear, you’re a racist etc.
Most WUWT readers would have cottoned on by now that COVID is a scamdemic, on par with the scam that has convinced many that the 3% of CO2 increase that is of human origin is going to make the world burn in flames and we must believe this without question and hand over hundreds of billions a year to the UN or the world will burn in flames.
When it takes a month or two to find out that CNN Cuomo was on a concentrated form of quinine, from his wife, then you know something was up all along. CNN said it was no good, it didn’t work, it was dangerous, but wait oh yeah, our main guy is secretly taking a concentrated form of it.
Now the lancet can’t be trusted either. Time for a name change, the lanceit.
my first post covered the issues with this study and link I provided went more in depth and listed the issues.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-prevent-covid-19-infection-in-people-who-have-been-exposed-study-says/
and:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638?query=featured_home
only using hydroxychloroquine link does not show the zithromax (whatever generic name is) and zinc.
just like all the other TOUTED studies, never using all 3.
few done using all 3 ignored.
hmm..
Supported by David Baszucki and Jan Ellison Baszucki, the Alliance of Minnesota Chinese Organizations, the Minnesota Chinese Chamber of Commerce, and the University of Minnesota.
boy thats interesting….wonder why only hydroxychloroquine alone tested and not the known 3 item regimen.
I didn’t have any data to argue, but the mysterious way results could change so dramatically on the basis of one commercial(paid for) study that strongly countered what have been quite widespread successful uses of hydroxychoroquin was very suspicious.
Just reading the summary conclusions was enough.
The Deep State / Media / Left Wing (but I repeat myself) hates him with a passion. Every times he inhales, “he’s stealing oxygen from women, children and minorities.” Every time he exhales “his CO2 is contributing to the climate change devastation of women, children and minorities.” Now I’ll admit Trump’s crude and verbally challenged personality is is own worst enemy at timesand I cringe at his malapropisms and self promotion BUT I feel he’s the necessary purgative for the nation to puke up the Deep State ala The Exorcist.
Exactly. They’re terrified of another 4 years where his random access brain can and will be used to crucify some of them, and at random too.
It couldn’t happen to a more wonderful cadre of taxpayer money thieves.
HCQ with zinc has been proven by physicians in the field in hundreds of cases. Like every other medicine for every other disease, it’s more effective when given early instead of waiting until the patient is dying in the hospital.
Tens of thousands of Americans have died and trillions of dollars of economic damage has been done because Trump haters wouldn’t allow a drug Trump recommended to be used. This has really been a sadly preventable disaster.
Heres a thing and it isn’t hard… never mind HCQ or any other drug Remdesvir ets… the govmnt of whatever your local could … and pennies expense to the taxpayer… produce a dietary supplement pill containing vit c vit d vit b and their complex variants plus zinc and any other mineral supplement thought appropriate … and supply it free of charge to the entire population…. might work might not no harm nothing to loose get on with it!! watcha fink….
not to worry:
2 Jun: Daily Mail: Prof. Neil Ferguson whose grim warnings prompted Boris Johnson to order TOTAL LOCKDOWN admits Sweden may have suppressed Covid-19 to the same level but WITHOUT draconian measures
by Connor Boyd
Professor Neil Ferguson, of Imperial College London, revealed he had the ‘greatest respect’ for the Scandinavian nation, which has managed to suffer fewer deaths per capita than the UK.
He made the comments at a House of Lords Science and Technology Committee today during his first public appearance since flouting stay at home rules to have secret trysts with his married mistress last month.
The epidemiologist – dubbed Professor Lockdown – has come under fire for his modelling which predicted half a million Britons could die from Covid-19 and heavily influenced the UK’s decision to rush into a nationwide quarantine…
The UK has a death rate of 575 people per million, while Sweden’s is significantly lower at 436 per million. As well as fewer deaths, Sweden’s GDP actually grew in the first quarter of 2020, suggesting it might avoid the worst of the economic fallout from the crisis…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379769/Professor-Lockdown-Neil-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html
Neil is still essential:
2 Jun: UK Telegraph: Prof Neil Ferguson still influencing Government’s coronavirus plan despite resigning for breaking lockdown rules
On Tuesday, a witness revealed that Prof Ferguson is leading a team contributing to one of the most influential Sage sub-committees
By Henry Bodkin and Anna Mikhailova
Professor Neil Ferguson is still influencing the Government’s coronavirus response, despite having resigned his official position for breaking social distancing rules, it has emerged…
However, on Tuesday a witness at the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee revealed that Prof Ferguson is leading a team contributing to one of the most influential Sage sub-committees.
A government spokesman conceded that they still require his services…
Giving evidence on Tuesday to the Lords committee, Dr Paul Birrell, from Cambridge University, said: “The Sage subgroup on which both Mark [Keeling] and I sit, SPI-M (Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling) has a further sub-group on forecasting. It’s about six or seven modelling teams, Matt Kelling and Neil Ferguson lead two of those teams.”
A government spokesman said: “Professor Ferguson accepted he made a serious error of judgement and stepped back from his involvement in Sage.
“Prof Ferguson and his group have directly fed into SPI-M meetings since the beginning of the Covid outbreak.
“Since then he has not attended any Sage meetings.
“His research group at Imperial College is one of the leading authorities in the world on epidemics and it is important that we continue to have access to their work and that of other expert groups.”…
His forecasts predicted that, without a full lockdown, 500,000 people could die from Covid-19.
He did not respond for a request to comment
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/02/prof-neil-ferguson-still-influencing-governments-coronavirus/
“admits Sweden may have suppressed Covid-19 to the same level”
Also in the :Daily Mail today
“Sweden admits it DID get it wrong on coronavirus: Expert behind country’s refusal to enter lockdown says he would have imposed tougher restrictions ‘if we knew what we know now'”
and also
”
Swedish PM launches inquiry into his country’s decision to avoid a coronavirus lockdown as country sees highest per capita death rate in the world “
That’s not enough to say “more Swedes died because they didn’t lockdown”.
Worldwide economic collapses, hyper depressions, and hyper inflation can cause the morbidity and mortality on epic scales. We have watched the effects of same in microcosm for the past two decades in Venezuela where you can poke a stick in the ground anywhere in the south and strike oil. A Government managed collapse.
Malnutrition is rampant. The average Venezuelan by 2017 had lost 24 pounds of body weight. Maternal death up 63%, child mortality up 30%. Resurgence of the “old diseases”, measles, diptheria, tuberculosis … Malaria increased ten fold.
What if the rest of the Western World’s economies really collapse … like Venezuela ?
Betcha a cheeseburger that the excess mortality in Sweden is also concentrated in the same cohort of “aged with pre-existing conditions”. (like me). That’s more survivable than where we are headed.
That’s not enough to say “more Swedes died because they didn’t lockdown”.
add: 40,000 people died last year because the government didn’t lock down automobiles.
“That’s not enough to say “more Swedes died because they didn’t lockdown”.”
OK, there’s more:
“Sweden takes the big coronavirus risk for none of the economic gain”
One can have the brain of an Einstein – and it does you little good when you are surrounded by morons.
Sweden has saved itself from quite a few suicides, deaths from other diseases that they are still treating, and much of its local economy is still intact.
Nick Stokes says :
“Sweden takes the big coronavirus risk for none of the economic gain”
_________
I’m not talking “economic gain”, but avoiding economic collapse and catastrophe which would result in morbidity and mortality orders of magnitude beyond what the CoVID virus can. It is akin to a patient dying of multi-system failure. Just when you think you have one organ salvaged two more go bad… then another. Again simply look at the Venezuelan collapse. The Chavistas figuratively wired the “building” of their nation with charges, then detonated them, convinced they were creating “21st Century Socialism”. We watched in slow motion as Venezuela was “dropped” like and old condo building. The only reason anything is left is because there is outside assistance.
If the Western world’s economy goes down there will be no help … just jackals circling.
From Statista
Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths worldwide per one million population as of June 3, 2020, by country:
Country____confirmed cases__Pop (millions)___Deaths per million
Belgium________9,505________11.42_________832.16
United Kingdom_39,370_______66.49_________592.13
Spain__________27,127_______46.72_________580.58
Italy___________33,530_______60.43_________554.85
Sweden_________4,468_______10.18_________438.76
France_________28,900_______66.99_________431.43
Netherlands_____5,967_______17.23__________346.29
Ireland_________1,658_______4.85___________341.61
United States__106,030_____327.17___________324.08
Switzerland_____1,920_______8.52___________225.44
Canada_________7,477_____37.06____________201.76
That sentence, “Swedish PM launches inquiry into his country’s decision to avoid a coronavirus lockdown as country sees highest per capita death rate in the world” Is a headline in the June 3rd Daily Mail.
But the June 3rd statistics show Sweden is number 5. Daily Mail got it wrong.
Is the covid death rate the only metric worthy of measuring the impact and worthiness of locking down an entire population?
The Daily Mail is not famous for either precision or accuracy. The statistic they were actually referring to (I think) was
“The country had 5.59 deaths for every million people on a rolling seven day average in the week to May 29”
That must be the understatement of the year.
But the fact remains that Sweden without a lockdown has fewer per capita deaths than the UK on full lockdown. That at least should make one wonder what that full lockdown has actually achieved.
Your publication of record then?
“Your publication of record then?”
Not my preference. I followed commenter pat’s link.
And preferred it as the source of evidence for your counter too.
“Sweden reports the number of people who die with COVID-19, not of COVID-19.
“Even in a culturally and geographically similar country like Norway—celebrated for its low death rate—they do things differently. The Norwegians only count something as a COVID-19 death if a doctor concludes that someone was killed by the disease and decides to report it to the country’s public health authority.”
https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/?utm_medium=email
In Sweden, Will Voluntary Self-Isolation Work Better Than State-Enforced Lockdowns in the Long Run?
There’s a lot of debate over the Swedish model of coronavirus response, but there are good reasons to think a Hippocratic approach to policy may pay off.
JOHAN NORBERG | 4.17.2020 11:50 AM
Leo Goldstein noted that nearly all Blue States in the Northeast US banned HCQ except for private patients and these states accounted for 60% of the deaths at the time of Leo’s article. A number of trials in hospitals there were discontinued.
I wonder if the statistics would support legal action – hell, crimes against humanity! The “distributed denial of HCQ to covid patients” rests in the identical talking points and verbiage from press, and polits.
“Leo Goldstein noted that nearly all Blue States in the Northeast US banned HCQ except for private patients”
This says private patients could still get HCQ even with a ban in effect in the Blue States. I’m wondering if President Trump’s “Right to Try” law he got passed not long ago to allow people more medical options, has anything to do with this?
YouTube now say it was a mistake to block medcram updates?????
It is known that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) inhibits conversion of 25(OH)- to 1,25(OH)2-vitamin D both in vitro and in patients with sarcoidosis. Vitamin D is steroid – it’s not a fatty acid like the other fat soluble vitamins. Over 220 body functions are critically dependent on vitamin D. I would make sure my vitamin D levels wasn’t at deficient level before the flu season starts – by checking them with a blood test. Although 1-2% of the world population died during the Spanish flu of 1918, 98% survived. And the Spanish flu never returned. Were those who survived genetically immune or did they just eat enough fish so their vitamin D levels where’ not at deficient levels ? Diet determines health.
Pure science doesn’t seem to exist any longer. Politicians have co-opted “science” for their own political ideology. They seemed to think that “science” would clean up their political mess, but instead of doing that, they have sullied science.
As for HCQ, using data from the Food and Drug Administration for 2004 through 2015, HealthGrove looked at the 150 drugs that are involved in the highest number of adverse reactions and ranked them by the percent of these reactions classified as serious. HCQ does not appear in the top 50….but Aspirin does (#44) as does Acetaminophen (#39)
Would you please share a link to that data?
The advocated treatment was (is)
HCQ + zinc sulfate + Zpac
(+ D3 perhaps)
given as soon as suspected and continued until recovery is complete. Starting after admission to hospital has a poor outcome; after ICU or or ventilator, it FAILS — according to the treatment advocates.
===
If you are not testing that treatment protocol, that’s fine; don’t claim that you are, though. Starting it when the patient is admitted to ICU and then having the patient die is CONFIRMING the advocates’ description of their protocol, not refuting it.
Is this that complicated?
Did McGill only use HCQ without the zinc and ZPAC
What I read suggested just HCQ, meaning again it was designed to fail
They tested added zinc and vitamin C. The data are in the supporting information. But they only tested for prevention. Not for treatment.
I have no idea whether HCQ works or not, although the evidence appears to me that it does if prescribed early enough. The fact that lupus and arthritis patients on the drug don’t seem to get Covid 19 when both groups are effectively immune suppressed also suggests some positive effect.
One of the great things about America being the lawyer capital of the world is that somewhere there will be a smart lawyer with some good researchers who will look at this information, decide there is evidence for its efficacy, and sue the sh*t out of companies like Facebook because they have large cheque-books. All you have to do is select the plaintiff state correctly.
And once the civil cases are out of the way, if there is any real evidence that this lead to the deaths of people then everyone associated with publishing misinformation should be charged with manslaughter. Especially the mainstream media!
*Nobody* that understands the several (at least 5) antiviral mechanisms of HCQ would expect that NO viral replication would occur.
HCQ doesn’t slam any doors completely shut…but it should close the door far enough to reduce viral replication rates. A significant retardation of viral replication might *frequently* “buy enough time” for the immune system to eliminate the virus through antibody viral clearance before serious or fatal outcomes.
Testing for rates of infection via PCR tests with HCQ is either ill advised…or devious. It tells us nothing useful.
A reasonable test would ONLY look for viral loads or rates of hospitalization, ICU admissions, and fatalies…for those administered HCQ *early* in the course of the disease (hellish difficult to control for in a study) and when administered with or without zinc and with or without Azithromycin (or Doxycycline).
No study designed to those MOST OBVIOUS STANDARDS has been concluded yet…for some reason.
To follow Quilter’s observation.
In the UK it has been observed that Black, Asian, Middle Eastern and Ethnic (“BAME””) minorities have been much more likely to be infected with, and to die of, Covid 19 than white natives. This has been attributed to poverty and other forms of deprivation as well as to a greater propensity to suffer from diabetes, obesity and high blood pressure.
It is known that C6OD (“favism” ) is endemic in a number of West African tribes and in many Middle Eastern (and Mediterranean) populations. However, no attempt seems to have been made to investigate the correlation between C6PD and Covid 19 in those admitted to hospital or those who have died from the virus.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85929
The ingestion of any form of quinine is known to be highly dangerous for those with G6PD and yet, as a relative of mine has found, it does not appear that several hospitals in England are even aware of its existence.
I wonder if that is also true in the US where, for example, it is estimated that 10% of African Males suffer from the genetic variation.
One theory based on lack of vit D related to darker skin color relative to amount and angle of sun needed to allow UV B to needed for bare skin to manufacture D
I received this recently:
Discuss
China holds the patent! Isn’t that lovely. I guess this shouldn’t be a surprise considering the world we live in.
If Trump happened to say that Oxygen, Water, Carbs, Proteins, Fats, Vitamins C, D, B-complex, others, and certain minerals are critical to a healthy life, a certain sub-population might assiduously avoid all of them despite the peril of such a step. I guess it’s a good thing he hasn’t successfully weaponized his detractors’ contrarianism against them…yet.
Until I read this article, I struggled to come up with a good example of the aphorism “Cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face”. Now I have an example.
there was but one purpose!
15 May: WaPo: Lancet editorial blasts Trump’s ‘inconsistent and incoherent’ coronavirus response
by Derek Hawkins & John Wagner
One of the world’s oldest and best-known medical journals Friday slammed President Trump’s “inconsistent and incoherent national response” to the novel coronavirus pandemic and accused the administration of relegating the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to a “nominal” role.
The unsigned editorial from the Lancet concluded that Trump should be replaced.
“Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics,” said the journal, which was founded in Britain in 1823…
Medical journals sometimes run signed editorials that take political stances, but rarely do publications with the Lancet’s influence use the full weight of their editorial boards to call for a president to be voted out of office…
Lancet editor(-in-chief) Richard Horton has decried the British government’s response to the pandemic in editorials and public statements published under his name…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/15/lancet-editorial-trump-administration-coronavirus-response/
5 Oct 2019: The Lancet: Offline: Extinction or rebellion?
by Richard Horton, Editor-in-chief, The Lancet
(LINK ELSEVIER)
An unprecedented social and political disruption is about to take place. Nothing like it will have been seen for a generation. The outcome could be transformational. Or it could be met with indifference. Remember the antiglobalisation protests in Genoa in 2001? Or the marches against the Iraq war in 2003? The outcomes of October, 2019, depend on the intensity of resistance. What part should health workers play in one of the greatest social movements of our time.
The occasion before us is 2 weeks of non-violent direct political action, beginning on October 7. Billed as an “International Rebellion”, millions of people will gather in cities around the world. They will “continue to rebel against the world’s governments for their criminal inaction on the climate and ecological crisis”. Citizens are encouraged to take as much time off work as possible. Extinction Rebellion puts it like this: “Because time is running out. We’re almost at the point of no return. The governments are doing nothing. Businesses are doing nothing. The situation is urgent.” There are three demands—first, tell the truth; second, act now; third, go beyond politics to create a citizens’ assembly…
The climate crisis is one of the greatest threats to the health of humanity today…
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)32260-3/fulltext
as long as Horton keeps his position, The Lancet is politics, not science.
whooo whooo now isnt THAT interesting conflict and ideology?
thanks for the background.
2 May: Al Arabiya: Reuters: Coronavirus: Lancet editor-in-chief hails China’s innovation of shelter hospitals
Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of The Lancet medical journal, has hailed China for the concept of setting up temporary shelter hospitals in its fight against the coronavirus outbreak in the country, calling it a brilliant and innovative idea that the rest of the world should try to adopt.
The prominent British medical journal, on April 18, published an article entitled, “Fangcang shelter hospitals: a novel concept for responding to public health emergencies.”
The report was written by Wang Chen, president of the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences and vice-president of the Chinese Academy of Engineering and his team, discuss the idea of “Fangcang shelter hospitals” as a novel public health concept…
https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/05/02/Coronavirus-Lancet-editor-in-chief-hails-China-s-innovation-of-shelter-hospitals
Youtube: 6m46s: 1 May: CGTN: Richard Horton: We should work together with China fighting COVID-19
Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of the prominent British medical journal The Lancet in an interview with CCTV on Friday, noting that the world should work together with Chinese authorities to understand the virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCnSEzRedGo
2 May: Steerpike: from Spectator UK: Lancet editor’s Chinese propaganda
Ever since the coronavirus first began to spread in the UK, one of the government’s staunchest critics has been the editor-in-chief of the Lancet, Richard Horton. In late March, he suggested that Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson were playing ‘roulette with the public’ and said on Question Time that the government’s response to the virus was a ‘national scandal’…
But Mr S has spotted that Horton seems to be far more forgiving when it comes to other countries’ response to the virus. Yesterday, the Lancet chief appeared on the Chinese news show Xinwen Lianbo. The programme is produced by the state-owned broadcaster China Central Television (CCTV)…
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/05/lancet-editors-chinese-propaganda/