As noted previously by Leo Goldstein, there has been a coordinated attempt by institutional press and academia to discredit the use of Hydroxychloroquine.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/11/distributed-denial-of-hcq-to-covid-19-victims/
As noted in yesterday’s edition of Science:
A mysterious company’s coronavirus papers in top medical journals may be unraveling
By Kelly Servick, Martin EnserinkJun. 2, 2020 , 7:55 PM
On its face, it was a major finding: Antimalarial drugs touted by the White House as possible COVID-19 treatments looked to be not just ineffective, but downright deadly. A study published on 22 May in The Lancet used hospital records procured by a little-known data analytics company called Surgisphere to conclude that coronavirus patients taking chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine were more likely to show an irregular heart rhythm—a known side effect thought to be rare—and were more likely to die in the hospital.
Within days, some large randomized trials of the drugs—the type that might prove or disprove the retrospective study’s analysis—screeched to a halt. Solidarity, the World Health Organization’s (WHO’s) megatrial of potential COVID-19 treatments, paused recruitment into its hydroxychloroquine arm, for example. (Update: At a briefing on 3 June WHO announced it would resume that arm of the study.)
And we all saw the screaming news stories.
Several studies have found that the malaria drug — highly touted by President Trump, who says he takes it — is harmful to patients–People.com
And shortly thereafter.
But just as quickly, the Lancet results have begun to unravel—and Surgisphere, which provided patient data for two other high-profile COVID-19 papers, has come under withering online scrutiny from researchers and amateur sleuths.
Things moved quickly.
Today, The Lancet issued an Expression of Concern (EOC) saying “important scientific questions have been raised about data” in the paper and noting that “an independent audit of the provenance and validity of the data has been commissioned by the authors not affiliated with Surgisphere and is ongoing, with results expected very shortly.”
Hours earlier, The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) issued its own EOC about a second study using Surgisphere data, published on 1 May
Bizarre age we live in, where an entire FIELD is hijacked in order to discredit an individual–to the point of killing people.
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Not bizarre at all, simply the political left doing what it always does. People dying is just gravy over top for them.
“Do I denounce the riots, the pillaging of cities, the burning and looting, the attacks on innocent bystanders? Hey, if you’re making an omelet you gotta break a few eggs, ok? The ends justify the means.”
The same goes for truth and honesty in a pandemic, a crisis not to be wasted.
I’m often highly critical of the Guardian and have emailed their editor about constantly attacking HCQ because of their TDS obession but it seems that Guardian Australia’s Melissa Davey has been key in questioning the validity of study published in the Lancet.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/may/28/questions-raised-over-hydroxychloroquine-study-which-caused-who-to-halt-trials-for-covid-19
Credit where credit is due.
Yes, just one of the ‘ Antifarters’, notice how Lancet paper ignores all successes reported where Hydroxychloroquine is administered with Zinc sulphate & Athromycins such as Zythromax in combination etc – huge successes reported where administering within 7 days China-virus is diagnosed.
You just have to laugh at the lefties…. should have been drowned at birth….
Yes, but…
They kill people.
Yes 60MM+ abortions since Hussein took office but who’s counting.
This is the hockey stick all over again. A bogus study that delivers the message those in authority want and expect to hear. As a result it gets promoted without any due dilligence.
In this case the message was “Trump is wrong” and people were falling all over each other to repeat the message.
Indeed it is the hockey stick all over again. However, I would prefer doctors making life and death decisions not to be down at the level of climate ‘scientists’ hiding the decline. They have literally condemned some people to death who otherwise may have survived.
Similarly I have seen no ‘talking head’ doctor advise people to be sufficient in vitamin D and zinc. Both simple and cheap to do and it would prevent a lot of hospitalizations due to COVID-19 and may stop some infections by boosting the innate immune system.
The medical profession has in the case of this pandemic shown themselves to be completely unprofessional, so who knows where else there is unprofessional behaviors?
hoping that was from tip I sent.
added to that is this
https://twitter.com/statnews/status/1268256525203750917
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-prevent-covid-19-infection-in-people-who-have-been-exposed-study-says/
as I tweeted:
https://twitter.com/conserv_voice/status/1268261486977331204
and:
Interesting article and comments
The mechanism of action of the combination HCQ + Zn has never been about “preventing” or “keeping” from being infected with the virus. It doesn’t create a forcefield around you to keep it from entering the body. Once it enters the body, the virus is not destroyed right away. It is most likely that the body will react at first because it has detected the virus, but the replication of such virus will be compromised once it enters cells.
They were not questioning the drug when it was promoted by China, Korea or even France… but once Trump mentioned it, this drug became another argument by some (cough) journalists to try to take him down, again.
Ray you have that right.
I read the initial Nature paper and immediately procured a hundred quinine tablets (they don’t bother me). When such a large number of reporting hold that it has anti-viral effects, going all the way back to SARS-1, what else show we do? Ignore it and wait for Gilead to get their miracle approved? From what I read so far HCQ+zinc is about twice as effective as Remdesivir.
Too bad it is so cheap, eh?
Except that there is considerable effort that shows HCQ does NOT WORK effectively, maybe not at all on Coronavirus.
Just one of many is a U of Minnesota study just published. 800 people, results I would call inconclusive but show HCQ is no magic bullet, but nobody died….makes one wonder how many feel whatever they took saved their lives….still too small of a study, you will probably say, so you need it to be inconclusive on how many thousand subjects ?
The University of Minnesota study is a double-blind randomized clinical control trial, considered the gold standard in medicine.
Starting in mid-March, Boulware and his colleagues recruited 821 people in the US and Canada who had been exposed to Covid-19. Some were health care workers and others lived in the same house as someone with the virus. The median age was 40.
About half the study subjects were assigned to take hydroxychloroquine for five days, and the other half were assigned to take a placebo, or a pill that does nothing. Neither the researchers nor the study subjects knew who was taking which drug.
The researchers then monitored the study subjects for two weeks.
In the end, it didn’t matter if they received the drug or not: about 12% of those taking hydroxychloroquine came down with symptoms of Covid-19, compared to about 14% of those taking the placebo, a difference that was not statistically significant.
Did they use zinc also in this study?
The proposed protocol is hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin plus zinc. I fail to see any value in a study that uses just one of the three.
Unless the real purpose of the study is to produce a failure that can be used for propaganda.
Always some reason for the recent tests to not work, no zinc, administered too late, adminstered too early, no Azithromycin….how about the likelihood that it doesn’t work very effectively ?
Just sayin’….
DMacKenzie your dismissal reminds me of people who don’t follow directions…”I didn’t read the label who knew this was a suppository” 😉
Derg, thanks for the suppository info…
So here is another vaunted study touting the benefits of HCQ….but notice their table 2 “Comorbidities”, the group put on HCQ has fewer comorbidities, so of course are going home “recovered” sooner. By 3 1/2 days out of an average 20 day hospital stay. Not Earth-shattering, and quite possibly meaningless due to the comorbidity frequency. As you say, read the label, maybe the comparison tables too….
Derg,
oops, here is the link to the study
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20094193v1.full.pdf
In the end, it didn’t matter if they received the drug or not: about 12% of those taking hydroxychloroquine came down with symptoms of Covid-19, compared to about 14% of those taking the placebo, a difference that was not statistically significant.
That’s not the point of HCQ. It is to allow those with COVID to recover quicker and with less severe symptoms, not to prevent the virus from infecting them in the first place.
No zinc. Zinc is probably the main ingredient that HCQ helps to usher into the cells where it interfere with viral replication.
Every group seeing HCQ effectiveness stresses the importance of early intervention and zinc supplementation. Most also include Azithromycin or Doxycycline.
Why do all the studies omit these elements?
omitted because they want a fail or low use result
and it all hit the fan as glileads expensive and useless antiviral got the push
it was useless for ebola and was heading to orphan drug status i seem to remember reading
Id be looking into who is involved funding etc this Surgisphere crowd
bet theres bigpharma and political backing.
“About half the study subjects were assigned to take hydroxychloroquine for five days, and the other half were assigned to take a placebo, or a pill that does nothing. Neither the researchers nor the study subjects knew who was taking which drug.
The researchers then monitored the study subjects for two weeks.
In the end, it didn’t matter if they received the drug or not: about 12% of those taking hydroxychloroquine came down with symptoms of Covid-19, compared to about 14% of those taking the placebo, a difference that was not statistically significant.”
Five days of treatment? That seems hardly adequate.
President Trump took hydroxychloroquine for two weeks as a preventative. The way I understand that this works is during the two week period of taking the drug, the drug builds up in the body to where after you stop taking the drug after two weeks, the drug still remains effective in the body for about a month after you stop taking it.
So this would supposedly protect one for at least a month and a half.
As I said, it seems like a week of treatment is inadequate. Are not the doctors and nurses who are taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative taking it on a daily basis?. They don’t just stop after taking it for a week, is my understanding.
The HCQ BY ITSELF has no real effect on the Coronavirus. It serves as an ionophore, which allows Zn++ to move through the cell wall, where it is the ZINC that prevents the virus replication. Trying to pooh-pooh treatment with HCQ by testing it IN ISOLATION is disingenuous to say the least. The zinc is an essential part of the protocol. I found this video by MedCram to be very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M&t=102s
Meh – “came down with symptoms” – of course they did. Nobody has EVER suggested HCQ will PREVENT you from getting covid-19. It isn’t a vaccine. The relevant question is not whether or not people got sick, it is how sick those people ended up getting.
Careful framing of the question is a classic method of biased science. If the honest and obvious question has an answer that you don’t like, just change the question until you find an answer you can spin the way you want. The peculiar way that the question in this study has been framed suggests to me that this is biased science.
A classic example of this in climate science is the study that claimed tropical cyclones were becoming more severe. The honest approach to this issue would be to look for trends in the number of storms or in the number of severe storms. However the number of tropical cyclones has been decreasing overall and the number of severe tropical cyclones is also down, albeit by a lesser amount. That isn’t the story the authors wanted to tell. Inconvenient. Reframing the question in terms of the percentage of storms that are severe gave them an answer that could be spun the ‘right’ way.
Whenever you see a peculiarly framed question in a study you should ask why the question has been framed in that way. Is it because a more straightforward question gives an answer that the authors of the paper don’t like.
It was already on. Once Trump mentioned it, the ongoing thimble-rigging campaign hit a snag, since it was impossible to hide at this point. Hence the standard response: doubling down and hysteria.
“They were not questioning the drug when it was promoted by China, Korea”
that’s because it was never promoted by China or Korea
President Moon has been 100% silent on anything related to any treatment.
and scientists and doctors likewise have said nothing.
Trials on going. skeptics shut up until all the data is in
Well what about unskeptical flying Pelostevephylax nigromosheraculatus? Should they “shut up” their croaking until all the data is in as well?
Why do they get to make claims of “gold standard” and “No Effect. from HCQ” when the data from their cited study isn’t in yet either?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638/suppl_file/nejmoa2016638_data-sharing.pdf
More than enough data is in to know for a certainty that Leftists are attacking a proven medicine because Trump is for it.
It’s not enough any more to say Liberalism is a mental disorder. Leftists are criminally insane.
SILENCE, PUNY MORTALS, YOUR GOD STEVEN WILL TELL YOU WHEN YOU MAY RETURN TO YOUR USELESS AND PATHETIC LIVES!!!!!
There, fixed it for you. Oh, hydroxychlorquine, zinc and antibiotic regime successfully treats Chinese Disease and there is nothing you can do to change that fact, Stevie.
Well antibiotics certainly work on secondary upper respiratory infections. But as far as HCQ and zinc, we are faced with about an equal number of studies that have reached weak positive and negative conclusions.
You actually have to read these studies. They usually aren’t so emphatic on their successes. Media reports have stated misleading leaders like “100% recovery with Chloroquine” when the CQ and placebo groups both had full recovery, and “80% recovery with HCQ” when normal hospital treatment has 95+% recovery in many hospitals, now that everyone with a cough isn’t warded with the CoVid19 patients…..
I will go with what doctors treating patients say and what those patients have to say after treatment. Oh, and I have used hydroxychloriquine and ain’t dead, there is that angle.
It is sort of amazing that Hydroxychloroquine, which has been prescribed for dozens of years for Malaria, Lupus/Arthritis, and taken by tens of millions individuals subject to Malaria for years on end, (and still is without any significance for harmed health) can all of a sudden become demonized if it is prescribed for 2 weeks at the beginning of COVID-20 onset of symptoms. And all the Drs that found it very effective if prescribed properly, usually with Zinc and many people claiming it saved their lives. And YouTube taking down any content that even mentions it being used for the Wuhan/China virus. What a farce Google and the monopolistic media have become.
It is time to bust up (and prosecute) the monopolies of the media and the social media platforms that are now interfering in free speech and the right of people to pursue and seek truth from those that wish to responsibly express themselves.
Right on, Earthling2, and a lot of Trump Derangement Syndrome is involved with this misconduct. Here’s a question: Do the patients taking the HYdroxycloroquine or cloroquine, for lupus, malaria, rheumatoid arthritis, get Covid-19 at the the same rate as the general public? Much lower rate than the general public? This data would show whether or not it is a prophylactic, as it was taken by President Trump.
Apparently Dr Oz looked into incidence of corona infection in lupus and arthritis patients taking HCQ and and apparently found it worked well, mentioning thousands of patients. From the Daily Caller of April 05:
“None of my lupus patients have developed covid, which is quite remarkable,” Dr. Daniel Wallace, a rheumatologist at Cedars-Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles, said in a teleconference for the Lupus Research Alliance.”
and:
Dr. Peggy Crow, the chief of rheumatology at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York, echoed Wallace’s observations.
“The anecdotal experience,” she said on the teleconference, “is that many more presumably healthy people are developing infections with COVID-19 than we’ve seen in our lupus patients, or rheumatoid arthritis patients.”
In India and parts of Africa where Malaria is endemic, there are “surprising” pockets where COVID-19 has failed to become widespread. The reporters were “surprised” that where large populations are being treated with CQ or HCQ routinely there seems to be some marked resistance to COVID-19 infections. Gee, I wonder why? I would also like to see a specific study from Rheumatologists treating large numbers of LUPUS patients with HCQ with regard to the number of their patients who ultimately come down with COVID-19, especially in areas of high rates of infection.
One must remember that the whole purpose of pandemic scares like swine flu and Covid-19 is to allow the WHO to drum up massive revenue for their pharmaceutical supporters for vaccines that do not necessarily have work (as in swine Flu) and for hugely overpriced test kits that may or may not work and in any case are largely irrelevant to managing the disease. The last thing the WHO and their pharmaceutical overlords want is to have the coffers slammed shut by an orphaned drug. There is no point to a pandemic if it doesn’t fuel a big pharma feeding frenzy, in much the same way that global warming hysteria would vanish if subsidies to junk power were turned off and donations to the Green Fear industry waned.
As mentioned by another commenter earlier, we have mistakenly placed our trust in Big Tech. Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon all seemed like good services for entertainment and information, but our trust in them is misplaced.
Prosecutions should be possible. The same “distributed” countrywide riots, lootings, beatings and death are also discernible. Gee, we have a number of intelligent lefty commenters among the many ‘Inexorables’ who come to WUWT that surely must be becoming disgusted with all this horror that can be laid at the feet of the mainstream Democrat Party and their mainstream adjunct media. They don’t care if people are killing people if it suits the Dem agenda.
I have told many among friends and even a few in family that the party they think they are voting for no longer exists. Its something alien and very different. The pandemic of TDS itself tells me that the country had almost reached a point of no return. Trump interrupted something terrible in the works.
“ They don’t care if people are killing people if it suits the Dem agenda.”
Their agenda is to kill people. Eugenics, abortion, banning DDT, etc. all aligned to rid the world of undesirables. How many gardeners does one need, after all?
I saw a study over a month ago that indicated that zinc in the laboratory could interfere with coronavirus replication. However, zinc is not able to penetrate the cellular barrier and get into cells where the virus invades to replicate. The study indicated that hydroxychloroquine can and does penetrate the cell and when it does, if zinc is present, the zinc can sneak into the cell with the hydroxychloroquine. I also checked and found that zinc is a recommended supplement for lupus patients and others who take hydroxychloroquine. If what I saw is accurate then a patient with zinc already present in their body may be helped by HCQ. Lupus patients are probably not immune, but if the virus cannot replicate their infections may be minor or asymptomatic.
Great: I want to see it revealed unequivocally what role HCQ + Zn could/should have in RNA virus treatment.
This is just part of the Left’s attack on all things good. Everything the LEFT touches is destroyed.
Climate change—> must make energy expensive
Russia—>must prevent Trump from being president
Ukraine—>must protect Biden, and also get Trump
HCQ + Zn bad—->because we cannot allow Trump to look good, let people die, that’s good for the Left
Crashing the economy —->will take away one of Trump’s successes
Destroying the country through riot—->So we can blame it on Trump.
Do the people publishing Lancet even READ the trash the print?
I am NOT a doctor and the article seemed flaky to me when I read it.
How many million service personnel have been given it for over 70 years? Even I had it when stationed in the tropics 50 years ago.
How many tourists been given it when taking a vacation in the tropics?
How is a drug used for 70 plus years like it was aspirin and the “consequences” detailed in the report (scam) not noted years ago?
You see what the Lancet has published about the poor oppressed Palestinians using a HAMAS doctor as their source, and how awful thepoop poor Palestinians life is, medically speaking, due to the Israeli Jack Boot on their necks. Lancet lost any credibility with me a very long time ago.
Lancet today repented of there sponsoring this moronically conducted “research” , and have disavowed it, claiming methodological flaws in it.
However there work was done, the WHO used this article to call upon all research projects on this to end. Perhaps already governments have defunded these research efforts.
Either that or they are trying to get ahead of the fallout if/when HCQ is proven effective for COVID.
Oh gee, we have doubts about this study now….
We’re going to investigate….
I am, and the Lancet study failed on a number of issues.
Primarily, the controls were not acceptably matched to the test subjects…not even close. The Lancet knew it was crap and printed it anyway. They are not to be trusted. Science is for sale to any leftist cause.
The Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine should be removed from all academic libraries as they have shown that they do not check what they print. A relatively simple check would have found that ‘Surgisphere’ just did not have the capabilities it was claiming.
I have found generally that academics in universities and now the medical profession are credulous and never check what they read if it supports their confirmation bias. How many of the references in the papers they cite in research have they actually checked and attempted to repeat to confirm that they are correct? None. So much for Nullius in verba.
So academics are an ideal group to be pwned like this. Now it is known that these journals cannot be trusted they should be withdrawn and any papers citing content from them also withdrawn.
Do they have any tree ring data in their health database sales product?
The hockey Lancet.
Three tree rings!
In 2017 there were 2,813,503 deaths in the US.
On average, that’s 54,105 per week.
Over the 12 weeks of Covid-19 that’s 649,260 non-Covid deaths.
Heart disease: 647,547 & 12,453 & 149,434
Cancer: 599,108 & 11,521 & 138,252
When will their pictures and back stories appear on a special front page section?
Guess you can’t hang all of them as albatrosses around Trump’s neck.
On the other hand, the 100 you chose to highlight out of the 100,000.
Were 80 of them 65+? Cause that’s a fact, Jack
Were 57 of them from NYC, NY, NJ or MA? Cause that’s a fact, Jack.
Were 23 of them from NYC? Cause that’s a fact, Jack.
What role did the following play?
Atrocious health care? Heart disease? COPD? Diabetes? Kidney failure?
But facts don’t fit your lying, rabble rousing, fact free, shit stirring, riot inciting, fake news narrative, do they?
If I were Trump, I’d turn the DOJ, FCC and public class action lawsuit flame throwers loose on the MSM for betraying the public’s trust, for yelling “Wolf!!” in the Twitterverse, social media, print and broadcast theater and stampeding the country into an economic cluster ***!
Maybe whatever arises out of the ashes will comprehend ethical and responsible journalism.
Nick, Good strong comment. I’d like to add that when this is all over and they do the analysis of this pandemic they are not going to find much of a bump in the death statistics. Why? Because almost all of those who have died were on the way out the door when they slipped on a banana peel. I understand that this does not help console those who have lost loved ones due to the virus. My apologies for sounding so coarse.
It was clear from the beginning when the first cases were found in assisted care centers in Washington state that the elderly were the most susceptible to the virus. This is where the most care/protections should have been directed from the start. In the case of New York and New Jersey, both governors are guilty of hastening the death of the those residents in the care of these facilities.
“It was clear from the beginning when the first cases were found in assisted care centers in Washington state that the elderly were the most susceptible to the virus. ”
If the US and all other countries would have looked at South Korea (which got the bug right after China), they would have all known that elderly are most susceptible to the virus. From the beginning, the average age of people in Korea who died with the virus was over 70 and the age group with most people in the ICU was the 80+ age group.
It should be pointed out however that there is a huge risk factor with the elderly that often gets glossed over and/or ignored: nursing homes and other long-term care facilities. Remove the deaths occurring in those facilities and the risk of dying for the elderly would go way down. The devil, as always, is in the details.
If there were an agenda at least one could *try* to bring reason into the mix. Sadly, that sounds too Alex Jonesesque for me.
I think progressives just don’t care about the elderly – in my view a much more abhorrent and heinous moral failure.
Here in PA Dr Richard Levine(it is a he) stated that nursing homes are Intensive Care Facilities and that justified putting highly infectious patients into them, where the infection ran through residents like a brush fire on a windy day. I believe AndrewTheInsane used the same “reasoning”.
SMS says :
Why? Because almost all of those who have died were on the way out the door when they slipped on a banana peel. I understand that this does not help console those who have lost loved ones due to the virus. My apologies for sounding so coarse.
___________________
I’m 64, had a heart attack 13 years ago, and that puts me in a high tier for negative outcomes should I contract the CoVID. And, I’m not in the least bit offended by your frankness . About 5 years ago my family doctor asked for his record how most of the men on my dad’s side died.
I calmly said “German artillery”. My doc is a smart guy, … he only tilted his head for about two seconds before he realized I was serious.
Short story we’re on average living longer, maybe far longer than most of the people who’ve lived in the past. Mostly because our ancestors did extraordinary things.
+ 10, Excellent.
It is more than obvious that there is a war going on in the background against common sense, and against those who don’t ;ike to go along with the herd mentality of the Democrat/socialists.
I’ve been taking low dose HCQ for months. I saw the first hints of what is now known of CoVID19 in the last week of December, … because I read the ID literature. Thanks “China Santa” !
As time went on I simply assumed what we heard about HCQ in the MSM were anti-Trump falsehoods. Currently high-five-ing myself.
I took straight-up Chloroquine once a week for all of 1979, as a prophylactic for malaria, when I was teaching high school in rural Kenya. So it irritates me when I see headlines suggesting it is dangerous or untested.
@boffin77: the claim that chloroquine is dangerous or untested is a massive absurdity. There are millions of us who have taken it for long periods without contacting malaria and without serious side effects, and many of us recall that it seemed to help keep away common colds and flu as well. On the other hand, back in those days, I remember the warning about making sure you took precautions if you went back to places where malaria was NOT endemic and you actually went down with it. First of all, The medics would be likely to deny you had malaria, even though you knew exactly what you had. The next problem was nearly as bad. When they finally did a test and confirmed your diagnosis, they would be all over you for days and weeks, armies or students being paraded past you etc etc. High security imprisonment. One colleague had to escape by climbing out of a window, down a fire escape, and took off to the equivalent of a “safe house”.
The 64k question. With it almost impossible now to get a prescription for HCQ, where can it be bought online with out a deep dive.
I was hoping the British/Indian ERD sirens would come thru…
I mean with out having to go thru bit coin escrow site….
I recommend, you can easily find Zn ionophores Quercetin (600mg 2 x per day), and add some EGCG (green tea extract) recommended serving size, with 15mg Zn.
These substances are derived from food and have numerous other health benefits, with no downsides I am aware of.
Already way past that. See the evms.edu/covidcare protocol. I am doing prevent now. Have reduced an to 75 mg per day. Down to 50 in a bit.
My Wuhan keto latte already has cacao, billberry, and qucerin.
Late day tonic, how much quinine, not enough. Vodka optional.
Terry thank you for response. 50mg are you talking about Zn? I do not take that much, it interferes with Cu…. I take 15 with Ca Mg Zn… But quinine, I have heard that this is not an ionophore, and does not do anything wrt to Zn in alveroar cells. I do take three different juiced veggies and fruits every morning… and several other things, and D3 2000iu 3 x day. I would not take the HCQ for me, only because I have what may be just as good or close to it protection from RNA virus’s trying to have their way in my cells!
Have not posted before, here is senate testimony of Dr Kory part of Dr Marik group. Hope link works.
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/download/testimony-kory-2020-05-06-revised
As for quinine, lots of controversy. What else is new. But it is antiviral from way way back. Ionopore who knows.
Have to take bulk vit c and zinc some how. Why not with tonic, vodka optional.
It is criminal that there have been no front end studies comparing HCQ vs quceritin as ionopore. Thing is, HCQ is more than ionopore.
Where I am at, would take weekly dose of hcq
Have also added NAC and selinium
“Bizarre age we live in, where an entire FIELD is hijacked in order to discredit an individual–to the point of killing people.”
Good Lord! The left wing would think nothing of encouraging Global Thermonuclear War if they though that more Republicans would die than Democrats. Much like Climate Change fanatics, we are not dealing with logic here – we are dealing with deep emotion. The kind that would lead a person to commit suicide if they though that by doing so they could pin a murder charge on someone they hated….
And in many countries, this sort of thinking is common amongst politicians…
The BBC says Monday fact.
Trump says Monday fact Tuesday.
BBC says Tuesday fact false and Trump insane.
Happens over and over. Whatever he says/does they launch in to discredit him, even if they blatantly contradict themselves. (Mind you, after some of his recent lapses of judgement, politics aside, he sounds nuts to me).
Trump derangement syndrome is now so deeply embedded, the BBC would quite clearly rather help foment/orchestrate the downfall of society than have him in office for another term.
“(Mind you, after some of his recent lapses of judgement, politics aside, he sounds nuts to me).”
Such as?
Latest double bind study in New England medical journal confirms non effectiveness of hqc
Worthless without data or any protocoll.
“Worthless without data or any protocol.”
NONE of the studies provide data
NONE of the the studies “promoting HCQ”
NONE of the studies recommending against it
NONE of them supply data
They all present RESULTS , but no DATA
It’s the old correlation vs causation issue where, without data, one cannot scientifically show something. I get it, believe me.
For some people (think pragmatists like me who also love science), especially at a time of crisis, they do what is otherwise “shown to work”; because waiting 8 or 16 weeks for science, is a moot point. Y’all be dead or not have benefited from trying.
Two things can be true when the issue is understood to not be mutually exclusive.
This should not be in dispute. I think we all agree here that this is not a binary argument.
The NEJM study only looked at prophylaxis (prevention), not treatment.
The entire issue concerning HCQ is about treatment. The NEJM study is irrelevant.
This one is, once again, a “study” designed to fail. “Zinc” is a word that is found nowhere in the paper.
Brian: A number of ‘studies’ were done using major overdoses on already critical patients to get bad results to report! This is actually murder, my boy. The posting on WUWT by a Brazilian scientist the other day reports on this as well as the successes of HCQ testing.
You do realize don’t you, the aricle of this comment section is reporting apologies from UK and US journals of medicine for questionable data used in their articles. Quoting them to support your thoughts is unwise.Typical stuff from the left: they are ‘following the Science’ in their policy and they are also doing the science to promote a preconceived policy. I am a scientist but not one who trusts ‘science’ as my default position anymore. The goodwill that once was possessed by science has been all used up. Used car salesmen have a lot of company these days.
I’m afraid you are spot on.
Hi Griff. Are you still changing your user name and email in order to look like multiple posters?
The sorry state of “Science”. I wonder if there also isn’t a financial motive here somewhere. I have to believe that a course of treatment with HCQ is 1, 10,000th the cost of Remdesivir. Plus who needs an expensive vaccine if the disease is easily and cheaply treated with HCQ.
Who needs expensive treatment if Vitamin D, Zinc and a humidifier keeps you from even needing cold meds?
What’s the death rate at now globally… 0.0011%? Last I checked back in April is is 1 in 10 million per month. *(may 2 in 10, june 3 in 10 etc)
I had it in November, January and April, I think I caught it momentarily last week. I have immunosuppressive asthma and *literally catch everything*… I make sure my nutrition is RIGHT, not trendy.
How many dead in NYC were eating Tumeric and drinking Aloe.
But that doesn’t explain the unbridled, unremitting hatred expressed by some in the leftist media, since they have no financial stake in which treatment prevails. To find the answer to that you have to look at the reward-seeking behavior of people at the two extremes of the self-esteem spectrum – namely, the narcissistic bully and the self-loathing.
1. If HCQ + Zn early treatment works to stop Covid-19, Trump will be proven correct.
2. If proven correct Trump will never let the MSM or the left forget it and will campaign on the fact that he was right and the libs were wrong.
3. Trump will likely be reelected.
4. Therefore, HQC cannot be found to be effective no matter what. It is far more important to keep Trump from winning than to potentially save the lives of a few old sick people.
Covid-19 has already wiped out the Trump’s economy and jobs advantage in this election cycle. An effective treatment early could bring back both before the election. Covid must be kept going at least until November.
It hasn’t wiped out the US Markets. Nasdaq closing in on its record high.
A vote for Biden will cost people 30% of their 401ks so you can bet that the sufferers from Chronic Virtue-Signaling Disorder will be voting for Trump and telling everyone they voted for Biden.
Comedy Gold.
“A vote for Biden will cost people 30% of their 401ks”
A vote for Biden would also cost people their freedoms. Biden was part of the last administration. You know, the one that tried to undermine the U.S. Constitution by interfering in the 2016 presidential elections.
Biden and the Democrats have already proven themselves to be criminals with their sedition during and after Trump’s election. Why would anyone want to be governed by criminals like these?
Trump proven correct, how? Prior to taking HCQ, Trump never endorsed, promoted or or suggested it, he said maybe HCQ will work, maybe it won’t.
The media had a different spin. Everyone has access to the video but chose to report the spin, instead.
“Prior to taking HCQ, Trump never endorsed, promoted or or suggested it, he said maybe HCQ will work, maybe it won’t.”
Wrong—he said it might well be a miracle cure.
I’ll just put this out there, Surgisphere is made up of 5 people, one of whom has worked for the Clintons. Take it to the bank.
Which one? The CEO, the “science editor” (science fiction writer), or the “marketing executive” (porn model)? (My bet is on the latter…)
Meanwhile Dr. Fauci’s miracle drug isn’t looking like a magic bullet in research studies:
https://news.yahoo.com/gilead-says-remdesivir-helped-moderate-125200715.html
There could be a connection. HCQ and CQ are cheap and nobody’s going to make a ton of money off them. There is every motivation for the makers of Remdesivir to say that those other drugs are dangerous and don’t work.
It may be like the rat catcher accusing cats of being in cahoots with the devil. Plus ça change …
Maybe I’m too cynical but I wouldn’t be surprised …
I recall an article that claimed HCQ worked if taken early enough, back in late March/early April. It was retracted as it was not peer reviewed, although it did contain great detail about HOW the HCQ, Zinc and Antibiotic worked at a cellular level. Then we had Dr Raoult Didier’s reports from Marseilles`on his success in using HCQ/Zinc/antibiotic to treat those suffering the early stages of WuFlu. There was the disastrous clinical ‘trial’ of, I believe, elderly patients in a Vet’s hospital, where only HCQ was administered, with large loss of life.
It is certainly worrying that state medical officers and/or governors practically forbade doctors to even try HCQ, despite the (largely discounted) evidence from the frontline medical staff that it DID work in a large majority of cases. But just as WuFlu appears to disproportionately affect those with darker skins living in Northern latitudes, so too is the HCQ cocktail not an appropriate treatment for those whose families originate in countries where malaria is or has been endemic, according to a German (medical) doctor.
– https://multipolar-magazin.de/artikel/covid-19-a-case-for-medical-detectives –
(Apologies for the lack of hyperlink)
Interesting hypothesis: immigrants and Italians with G6PD deficiency died because they were prescribed hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19(84), but were not tested for G6PD deficiency.
I think another possibility also needs to be considered in cases with high immigrant mortality. Many immigrants have latent TB brought with them from their home countries where TB is endemic. Stresses to the immune system can activate latent TB, and the symptoms are almost identical to Covid-19(84). Not testing for TB puts patients at risk for wrong treatments. For example, a Chinese girl with tuberculous pneumonia was wrongly diagnosed with SARS during that outbreak, and was treated with antiviral drugs that damaged her liver and did nothing to treat her disease.
I read the article – thanks for the link, Seamus, and here is my summary:
Dr. Wodarg makes an impressive case for the following:
1) 20% – 30% of the population, mostly males, in some regions of Africa have evolved a “G6PD enzyme deficiency” which makes them resistant to malaria (a huge benefit in some regions).
2) However this enzyme deficiency can be life-threatening if those persons eat certain foods or take innocuous drugs such as Aspirin, Vitamin K, or Chloroquin.
3) Dr. Wodarg found no evidence that Covid-19 patients were being tested for G6PD deficiency.
4) Thus, the reported disproportionate vulnerability of males and African Americans to Covid may be partially due to G6PD deficiency.
5) Thus: test for G6PD deficiency and adjust treatment accordingly.
6) Also: testing for G6PD is important before prescribing HCQ. This should make trial results for HCQ even better.
Brilliant
Brilliant.
Dr. Wodarg is no well seen here in Germany by some scientists, because he outed himself as “Corona-Sceptic.” Not that he was wrong, but he didn’t follow the narrative 😀
Even Rahmstorf thaught to have to write a blogpost about “Denial of science in the times of Corona” because of a German Video he posted.
But, chapeau, Rahmstorf was strongly critisised even by his usual lickspittles !
https://scilogs.spektrum.de/klimalounge/wissenschaftsleugnung-in-zeiten-von-corona/
I couldn’t make it through Wodarg’s article – he sounded crazy to me. Also, African Americans in the US armed forces have been taking chloroquines as long as whites, hispanics, etc. There are no studies indicating HCQ related mortality in US servicemen and women* . I imagine that quite a few black Africans have taken and are currently taking HCQ for malaria.
A far better hypothesis for high levels of mortality in people with dark skin is vitamin D deficiency – and there is data supportive of this hypothesis (search YouTube for some decent explanations or google for the papers).
* that first anti-HCQ for Wuhan hit piece using veterans seems to have been removed – but the study was garbage with no actual measurement of when, how much, or how long chloroquines were used
It was a records review, and the civil servant (read left leaning) medical personnel at the VA did not administer HCQ until the patients were in ICU on ventilator, did not supplement with zinc, and some got a z-pac. Again, the VA with a nearly malpractice disregard for their patients. Of course even with HCQ and zinc, some patients are still going to succumb. One of the facts of medicine is some patients die regardless of the quality of care.
Yes, the patients who were not given HCQ were most likely not as seriously ill, so there is an enormous bias in comparing death rates.
Risking people’s lives for political gain is egregious. The left simply does not care how many people die as long as they can get more votes.
I suspect there may also be $ profit motives for the deception.
HCQ is an ionophore that will pass Zn2+ through a cell wall into the cell. Zn2++ stops the cell from replicating the CV-19 RNA. This basically implies it would best be used at early onset to keep the number of CV-19 virus particles down in a patient allowing the patient time to develop antibodies to actually attack and eradicate the disease.
It isn’t a cure, it’s a delaying tactic. Using HCQ without additional Zn defeats it’s purpose and using it later in the disease may not have much effect.. but using it early most likely will have a major impact.
What’s so hard to understand about it’s benefit and how it should be used?
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176
What’s so hard to understand about it’s benefit and how it should be used?
It’s only hard if you are under mind control, and/or have TDS.
This knowledge would save lives… and adding quercetin and green tea extract are Zn ionophores which will provide lots of benefits with no downside… prevent the spreading this information and the information you posted is malfeasance.
PS: rbabcock, I trust my response was read as a sarc/ but full endorsement your post’s sentiments.
I totally agree.
And here is evidence that HCQ plus zinc sulfate is a cure for covid if given when symptoms appear.
The person that treated 700 of his patients is an Orthodox jew. He would no rather lie about HCQ and Zinc Sulfate’s such, than he would convert to another faith.
This is a link to the interview of the Jewish doctor who used Zinc sulfate plus Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin to treat 700 covid patients, who were sick and showing symptoms, with only one death.
The one person who died stop treatment. None of the 699 patients went to the ICU. That is close to a cure for covid.
https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/
Tried the link, got the message: this video has been removed for violating YouTube’s Terms of Service. How sinister is that?
@William Howard Astley
Meaningless article without confounding factors like age, obesity, cardiovascular and so on.
I could also have a rate of 100% without medication if all my patients are healthy, lean and <40y. No problem.
“The person that treated 700 of his patients is an Orthodox jew. He would no rather lie about HCQ and Zinc Sulfate’s such, than he would convert to another faith.”
sorry he has not posted any data for his study.
not randomized
not blinded
no data
Zn: red meat unprocessed 225g (8oz)gives almost a days needs. Dark chocolate is high in Zn. Shimp, shellfish, crab are good sources, Nuts, seeds, are fair sources, dairy, eggs, potatoes, legumes modest sources. All in all, its easy to have a normal diet and get the Zn you need.
Don’t let the marxbrothers take away your beef!
Exactly.
The point is that the leftist media have now used the ‘study’ for their Trump-hating headline and the same media will ensure that any later revision to the study won’t see the light of day.
Amazingly the Guardian has run an article calling the study a scam. They rip into Surgisphere and its founder pretty mercilessly. It won’t get the MSM coverage of the original Lancet publication, but it at least provided a link I could send to folks who sent me links to the Lancet article to prove I was stupid.
Could you post the link here, so we all and Mosher can see it.
I didn’t have time to read it properly but from a quick skim, it seemed like somebody forget the zinc. Oooopsie.
Mosh is off on his contact tracing mission. Nothing here for him to see.
MSN now has an article on the retraction.
I can’t comment on the data issues. My problem is with the statistical analysis. The Cox Proportional HR estimation left out ventilator use. As we now know, ventilator use was/is a death sentence. The authors did not include ventilator use as a variable in calculating the hazard ratio. This is a big mistake. The HCQ cohort had almost #X use of ventilators. My guess is that the author’s had a goal in mind in doing the statistics. They wanted to show HCQ caused more deaths. By omitting ventilator use in the HR calculation, the effect was picked up by HCQ. This is a classic omitted variable problem. How this made it by reviewers is beyond me. I’m not saying that the data isn’t bad. It might be. However, my guess is that if the statistical analysis had been done correctly, HCQ would not have had any excess deaths associated with its use. The paper was shlock just based on the statistical analysis
I still cannot understand why a study hasn’t been conducted to see what is the incidence of Covid 19 in users of HQC in the general population. Whilst it wouldn’t have the status of a clinical trial it would give and indication whether people who used HQC for other conditions have developed some immunity from getting the virus. There must be millions of regular users of the drug pre Covid who can provide such information.
There was a statistical analysis in Italy that found only a few SARS-2 infections among 10s of thousands of people taking HCQ for lupus and/or RA.
The telegraph: “Architect of Sweden’s coronavirus strategy regrets not imposing tougher lockdown
Sweden’s coronavirus strategy, which is much less restrictive than that of any other developed country, has received enormous attention globally in recent months.
Sweden’s death rate, at 443 per million inhabitants, is now 10 times that of Norway, four times that of Denmark, in line with that of France and slowly catching up with that of Italy.”
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/EuropeCV.htm
“Former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove said he had seen an “important” new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally but was man-made by Chinese scientists.
Sir Richard, who was the head of MI6 between 1999 and 2004, cited startling new peer-reviewed research produced by Professor Angus Dalgleish, of St George’s Hospital at the University of London, and the Norwegian virologist Birger Sorensen.”
And yet we have this:
Norway’s leader thinks they were wrong and should have reacted more like Sweden.
“On Wednesday night, Norway’s prime minister Erna Solberg went on Norwegian television to make a startling admission. Some, even most, of the tough measures imposed in Norway’s lockdown now looked like steps too far. “Was it necessary to close schools?” she mused. “Perhaps not.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/
Also this:
“Neil Ferguson, who became known as “professor lockdown” after convincing Boris Johnson to radically curtail everyday freedoms, acknowledged that, despite relying on “quite similar science”, the Swedish authorities had “got a long way to the same effect” without a full lockdown.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/
Vuk: who cares???
“Sweden reports the number of people who die with COVID-19, not of COVID-19.
“Even in a culturally and geographically similar country like Norway—celebrated for its low death rate—they do things differently. The Norwegians only count something as a COVID-19 death if a doctor concludes that someone was killed by the disease and decides to report it to the country’s public health authority.”
https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/?utm_medium=email
In Sweden, Will Voluntary Self-Isolation Work Better Than State-Enforced Lockdowns in the Long Run?
There’s a lot of debate over the Swedish model of coronavirus response, but there are good reasons to think a Hippocratic approach to policy may pay off.
JOHAN NORBERG | 4.17.2020 11:50 AM
The NEJM article had nothing to do with hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine. It was strictly looking at ACE inhibitors and angiotensin receptor blockers in the COVID-19 outcomes.
The Lancet paper was junk to begin with because they lumped HCQ use together with Chloroquine use. Clinicians universally agree that chloroquine use and heart arrhythmias were previously known to be associated and thus presented a much greater risk in their use in patients with CVD, diabetes, hypertension, etc.
The research, by US-based company Surgisphere, began to unravel in recent weeks as experts noticed red flags and questioned the credulity of its data-gathering and reporting. The Lancet journal issued an “expression of concern” over the study on Wednesday.
A Guardian investigation found that Surgisphere’s employees “have little or no data or scientific background,” with one appearing to be a sci-fi author and fantasy artist. The firm’s chief executive Sapan Desai has been named in three medical malpractice suits, the outlet said.
https://www.rt.com/news/490668-who-hydroxychloroquine-trials-resume-coronavirus/
“Bizarre age we live in, where an entire FIELD is hijacked in order to discredit [a civilization]–to the point of killing people.”
The fruits of consensus climatology since 1988.
Pat: yeah, my 80 some yr old dad has finally realized might be best if the dumb are dealt with by derwinagain models even though hes loved the puppet masters the whole time…hes beginning to see that bright light