Let’s start with a quote from an op ed last month in the NY Daily News
Because of the medication’s politicization, and the pernicious tendency for dissenting perspectives to be silenced during the pandemic, data supporting hydroxychloroquine’s effectiveness have been almost inaudible. But a recent analysis pooling together results of randomized clinical trials testing hydroxychloroquine’s use in early COVID-19 infection should substantially raise the volume.
The hydroxychloroquine saga cannot be fully appreciated without first considering the unusual circumstances under which it arose. While the medical profession has always sustained debate over which treatments are best, the tenor of the hydroxychloroquine controversy is unique. Physicians who have advocated for its effectiveness have remained steadfast in their support of the medication, despite unsupportive clinical trials enrolling hospitalized patients, social media blackouts of their opinions, and a chorus of politicians and health officials telling them — and the country — that they’re not only wrong but reckless.
While physicians who hold marginalized or unpopular positions about treatments are often considered by peers to be motivated by profit or other self-serving interests, these physicians were unnoteworthy in that regard, and would largely have been considered “mainstream” prior to the pandemic. Their clinical experiences were dismissed as anecdotal, but consistently achieving patient outcomes that were markedly better than those reported around the country fueled their confidence and tenacity. The nation and the world may now benefit from their steadfastness.
Here’s a couple of papers which establish the life saving value in early hydroxychloroquine treatment. The first is the one referred to in the op-ed.
Randomized Controlled Trials of Early Ambulatory Hydroxychloroquine in the Prevention of COVID-19 Infection, Hospitalization, and Death: Meta-Analysis
Abstract
Objective–To determine if hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) reduces the incidence of new illness, hospitalization or death among outpatients at risk for or infected with SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19). Design–Systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials. Data sources–Search of MEDLINE, EMBASE, PubMed, medRxiv, PROSPERO, and the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials. Also review of reference lists from recent meta-analyses. Study selection–Randomized clinical trials in which participants were treated with HCQ or placebo/standard-of-care for pre-exposure prophylaxis, post-exposure prophylaxis, or outpatient therapy for COVID-19. Methods–Two investigators independently extracted data on trial design and outcomes. Medication side effects and adverse reactions were also assessed. The primary outcome was COVID-19 hospitalization or death. When unavailable, new COVID-19 infection was used. We calculated random effects meta-analysis according to the method of DerSimonian and Laird. Heterogeneity between the studies was evaluated by calculation of Cochran Q and I2 parameters. An Egger funnel plot was drawn to investigate publication bias. We also calculated the fixed effects meta-analysis summary of the five studies. All calculations were done in Excel, and results were considered to be statistically significant at a two-sided threshold of P=.05. Results–Five randomized controlled clinical trials enrolling 5,577 patients were included. HCQ was associated with a 24% reduction in COVID-19 infection, hospitalization or death, P=.025 (RR, 0.76 [95% CI, 0.59 to 0.97]). No serious adverse cardiac events were reported. The most common side effects were gastrointestinal. Conclusion–Hydroxychloroquine use in outpatients reduces the incidence of the composite outcome of COVID-19 infection, hospitalization, and death. Serious adverse events were not reported and cardiac arrhythmia was rare. Systematic review registration–This review was not registered.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.30.20204693v1
And
Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection
Abstract
Approximately 9 months of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavius-2 (SARS-CoV-2 [COVID-19]) spreading across the globe has led to widespread COVID-19 acute hospitalizations and death. The rapidity and highly communicable nature of the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak has hampered the design and execution of definitive randomized, controlled trials of therapy outside of the clinic or hospital. In the absence of clinical trial results, physicians must use what has been learned about the pathophysiology of SARS-CoV-2 infection in determining early outpatient treatment of the illness with the aim of preventing hospitalization or death. This article outlines key pathophysiological principles that relate to the patient with early infection treated at home.
Therapeutic approaches based on these principles include 1) reduction of reinoculation, 2) combination antiviral therapy, 3) immunomodulation, 4) antiplatelet/antithrombotic therapy, and 5) administration of oxygen, monitoring, and telemedicine. Future randomized trials testing the principles and agents discussed will undoubtedly refine and clarify their individual roles; however, we emphasize the immediate need for management guidance in the setting of widespread hospital resource consumption, morbidity, and mortality.
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltext
I am someone who has just been prescribed hydroxychloroquine (better known as Plaquenil) to combat my whole body inflammation due to chronic latent TB. The drug information warns not to use it with azithromycin as that could lead to heart beat irregularities. I did my research, spoke with my doctor and checked with my niece and older sister who have been on this for years and it all checks out as safe with only very rare side effects.
One long term side effect is retinal toxicity and anyone who is going to be on long term treatment needs to get a field vision base line test prior to starting the drug. Annual eye checks will be needed to see if there is any deviation from the base line test.
Recent information on how COVID 19 kills shows that it is blood clotting in the lungs not pneumonia that is the culprit. They discovered that those on blood thinners, those taking long term low dose aspirin and those taking anti-inflammatory meds did not get seriously ill. So it makes sense that hydroxychloroquine would be successful against COVID 19.
I was referring to drugs being used in the medical arena, not
street drugs. As I understand it HCQ in certain states is being prohibited
for use in treating covid but is allowed for say lupis or RA. The states
not allowing HCQ are all *exclusive* Democrat run state. There are docs
that have had legal action taken against their license over treating
patients with covid with HCQ. Nothing like that has been been
done to my knowledge. Cite any examples if you wish.
If in the US, seeing a doctor in a nearby HCQ friendly state might be an option.
https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/hcq/
Order from India online. No prescription takes about a week
Website to order from?
At this rate the Brits and FDA will discover vitamin D. Then WHO will follow shortly after that, maybe.
https://www.lifeextension.com/news/vitamins/23620
Rotter, you should be embarrassed for posting this article. It’s junk like this that is giving this site a bad name.
bethan4567 … YOU should be embarrassed for posting worthless comments where you make assertions, and back them up with … nothing. Typical leftist — all beliefs, and no real science … usually followed by the false claim that ‘we believe in science’.
So the article is “junk” … but YOU read it”? So this website has a “bad name” … but YOU come here ?
So, not only do your comments make no sense, but you read articles that you consider “junk”, at a website that you consider to have a “bad name”? You should have your head examined. I expect they will find nothing.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/11/09/vindication-of-hcq/#comment-3121713
The right way to investigate HCQ, which the CDC should have done on March and April, 2020, is a large scale field study. The CDC failed to do that. Meaning they failed the American people. An HCQ field study, you probably don’t know, would be a massive CDC survey of doctors, asking them if they were prescribing HCQ, and if so, asking them if they felt the results were positive.
A survey of one doctor means little. 100 doctors is useful. But 1,000 or more doctors surveyed can result in a a reliable conclusion LONG BEFORE a controlled double blind test would be completed. With a pandemic, you need fast answers from a field survey. Nor a long wait for double blind trials, which someone would have to pay for … and since HCQ was generic, and cheap, none of the manufacturers would have financed such tests.
Your dumbest comment in this thread, so far:
“244,000 dead in America. If HCQ worked the death toll would be much lower. Most doctors like to save their patients lives”.
Okay Bethany, please explain EXACTLY how many Americans would be dead if HCQ “worked”.
I’m patiently waiting for your answer.
For you to claim 244,000 dead is proof that HCQ does not work, means that YOU know how many people would have died if NO American patients were prescribed HCQ.
Of course you don’t know that.
You are just blathering your personal speculation as if YOU saying it makes it a “fact”,
Many doctors did not prescribe HCQ, many states tried to ban it for COVID use, and no one claimed it was a magic bullet that prevents all COVID deaths.
You imply the death toll would be much lower if HCQ worked.
How much lower?
I’m patiently waiting for your answer.
Maybe the American death toll is ALREADY lower because of whatever HCQ was used?
So you are speculating that HCQ doesn’t work because the death toll, so far, is higher than YOU think it would have been if HCQ worked ?
You offer YOUR personal opinions and assertions as if they are facts.
In plain English, you are clueless.
Have a nice day;
RG
PS: I bet you think Donald Trump colluded with Russians too !
Richard, the only possible way to prove that HCQ is effective is with a double blind clinical trial. Please provide us with a link to such a study.
…
Thank you in advance.
Response to “Brilliant” Bethany’s (a legend in her own mind) 5:26 comment:
When people are dying rapidly from COVID — perhaps 1 of 100 who tested positive infected in March and April 2020 — you do a field survey of the many doctors around the world already using HCQ for their COVID patients. You ask doctors if their lupus patients who had been taking HCQ for lupus have had unusually low rates of COVID infections.
HCQ is a drug in use since the 1940s, generic, cheap, with few side effects. It is synthetic quinine — natural quinine was first used in the mid-1800s. Many doctors around the world had positive results using HCQ for their COVID patients. But I suppose YOU know more than thousands of doctors around the world? Where did you get YOUR medical degree, and where is YOUR medical practice located?
A pandemic means you don’t have six months to a year for a large scale randomized double blind test. And in a double blind test for COVID patients, would you choose subjects at random with no infections, to see if HCQ would help prevent the disease, lets say over the next six months to a year?
Or would you want COVID patients who recently tested positive, to see what happens to them with and without taking HCQ?
If patients had tested positive, and were in a double blind HCQ study, then half of them would be getting a sugar pill. No other medications that could help with the COVID infection would be allowed. That sounds cruel to me.
Life is a lot more complicated than you may believe. People frequently make judgements without all the information they need. Those judgements may be a matter of life and death. They don’t have six to 12 months for a double blind COVID medication test.
And what if there WAS a double blind test that found out that HCQ did not reduce COVID deaths … but they failed to test whether or not HCQ helped prevent people from getting the COVID infection in the first place? Another 6 to 12 months for that next double blind test?
You come here and spout platitudes about double blind clinical trials while completely ignoring the experiences of thousands of doctors around the world treating actual COVID patients with HCQ in Spring 2000. That makes you either heartless, or a fool.
Now tell us the Biden family is not corrupt — the Hunter Biden laptop was not his — blame the Russians — and then insist that Giuliani or Trump colluded with Russians to “smear” Joe Biden. Come on, show us your true leftist political biases.
Here ya go Richard Greene, results published June 3, 2020: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
End result? HCQ doesn’t work.
Ahh, ain’t that cute, you just keep spewing lies. You’re a special kind of leftard.
bethan456@gmail.com wrote: “Here ya go Richard Greene, results published June 3, 2020: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
End result? HCQ doesn’t work”
Well, the purpose of HCQ is to facilitate the transport of zinc into the cells, as I’m sure you know. That study didn’t administer any supplemental zinc. So although its conclusion is technically correct, it is studying the wrong treatment. I would assume deliberately.
You should be ashamed and embarrassed to post comments like yours. That should be banned.
How does he dare to post something YOU, an extremely well informed (but not willing to share) person disagrees with?
456, you give any place a bad name. Who did you vote for? Forget it, I know.
No, it is identity theft trolls like you that give a bad name to any place you post, which is why you keep posting.
Has anyone experienced a case of Covid-19? In particular, the inability to get enough Oxygen into one’s system such that one does not literally gasp for air when doing something exerting, even mildly exerting?
I had these symptoms in the late August into September time frame. I’m just now getting my ‘lungs’ back where I’m not gasping for air during hard bike rides or physical exertion.
Yes. I had shortness of breath on exertion along with a fever, and a persistent severe dry cough. My doctor prescribed prednisone, an inhaler, and cough medicine. I recovered at home after a few weeks. Shortness of breath is not pleasant at all. What a horrible way to die.
I also had night sweats and a cough, and wheeze reminiscent of the sound when I had a case of pneumonia in the summer of 1995. Could hear bubbles popping on a complete, forced exhale!
I soldiered on though, riding my bicycle to and from the grocery store in 90 deg. F plus temps … Dallas Tx area and our summers are hot – did this help to rid me of the disease? I took no special regimen of pills or anti-biotics at this time, just kept the usual mixed diet which included milk.
It works in vitro. It has a long-established low risk profile. The HCQ cocktail is both affordable and available. Demonstrated effectiveness in clinical trials and medical practices globally when administered as an early, out-patient treatment reducing disease progression by 80 to 90%.
That said, the run on hospitals was forced by social contagion spread by the press, media, social platforms, and politicians. Nearly half of the deaths can be traced to Planned Parent facilities. The majority of deaths could have been prevented through early treatment, and reducing spread by avoiding mandates for viral/bacterial collectors (e.g. “masks”) and lockdowns that exposed the most vulnerable members of our population on forward-looking basis. Most American jurisdictions reached peaked exponential spread before the mandates were imposed, then spiked with the restrictive mandates that are intuitive but not backed by clinical evidence. In fact, there is a controlled study that demonstrates masks are unproductive or counterproductive to prevent infection in controlled environments with trained personnel on a persistent basis. They are less effective to control sub-micron spread, whether aerosol, or droplet (evaporates, then either ingested or expelled). Transmission in hot, humid areas, in controlled indoor spaces, and areas with deficient sanitation, suggests that the primary transmission mode is fecal a la HIV.
Gasoline will kill the virus in vitro also.
Have you tested HCN too?
HCQ acts in two modes: border guard to enable entry of Zn into the cell and inhibit infection by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. As a low risk, inexpensive treatment, a low dose is sufficient to mitigate disease progression, and complements the body’s defenses. This cocktail has been observed to reduced mortality by 80-90%.
Please provide link to double blind study for proof/evidence of your assertion.
Physician’s observations were the basis of using blood letting for everything from blood loss from injuries (eg, sword and gunshot wounds) to typhoid for many centuries. Haemorrhage is a stimulus for cortisol release which makes a person feel better in the short term, so the doctors go positive feedback.
Another example of of the unreliability of physician ‘impressions’ is the DES (diethylstibestrol) disaster. It is a synthetic hormone with progestogenic effects, and the theory was that it might prevent pregnancy loss. It was shown in a double blind trial not to be effective, but obstetricians continued using it for another 17 years until 1971, saying ‘I was sure she was going to lose it, but my treatment worked and she didn’t.’ Clear evidence of CONFIRMATION BIAS.
The problem surfaced in when an excess of vaginal and cervical cancers turned up in young adult women who had been treated in utero with DES. Later DES treated women were found to have had male-biased play patterns as children and an excess of homosexuality that is thought to the fact that DES also has androgenic actions. These findings have been very important for human confirmation of the effects of prenatal hormone treatment observed in many animal species – ie, the effects of hormones on brain development.
Despite the problem of confirmation bias, I suspect there is a positive effect of hydoxychloroquine in the WuFlu. However, more data from clinicians who keep very careful records rather than global statements from individuals is necessary, and these data need to be evaluated independently.
it may be too late for vaccines or anything that stimulates the bodies defences. The virus has jumped to mink, mutated, then jumped in mutated form back to man, will the antibodies and T-cells attack this form of virus? Who knows, who is testing
Loose in denmark (back with humans) and WI
Two mink farms in Taylor County are under quarantine after animals in the facilities tested positive for ARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in humans.
Between the two farms, more than 5,400 mink have died, said Kevin Hoffman, the public information officer for the state Division of Animal Health.
The virus was confirmed at the first farm in early October when a dead mink tested positive for the disease. The farm was quarantined at that point, meaning no animals or animal parts could leave the premises. It’s believed the virus jumped from a human to the animals, Hoffman said, but an investigation into the transfer is still underway.
The outbreak at the second farm was found more recently, Hoffman said. It is not believed that the virus jumped from the first farm to the second.
Wisconsin flu anybody?
5400 dead! That’s more than Sweden. What was the death rate of the mink? Sounds like it is more than for seasonal flu.
Maybe they were they all over 80?
Yet one more reason to emphasize HCQ, Zn, and azithromycin/Quercetin/Rutin.
The mink corona virus probably reproduces like Cov-19, through the the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp).
That being true, the same HCQ/Zn/anti-viral protocol will work against mink corona as has worked against Cov-19.
In that event, the irony couldn’t be greater. The vociferously suppressed and inexpensive protocol will replace the touted expensive vaccine solution. Egg will be distributed to various faces in the WHO and the CDC. Not to say among the media greats.
“Yet one more reason to emphasize HCQ, Zn, and azithromycin/Quercetin/Rutin.”
Include Ivermectin in there, too. It is said to be very effective against the Wuhan virus by itself, and works well with HCQ in combination. You need one 12-milligram dose of Ivermectin as a one-time treatment, according to a doctor I heard today on the radio (Sean Hannity show).
How about this Frank? Leave the medicine to the MDs and we’ll leave the chemistry to you, OK?
How about this, bethan456: you wait until you know that you know what I know before you comment on my competencies.
LOL @ur momisugly Pat Frank
..
according to a doctor I heard today on the radio (Sean Hannity show).
..
Please get your information from real doctors and not from the television.
If your knowledge is based on Hannity on radio/television, I think you are hilarious. Will you take advice from Rush Limbaugh on use of tobacco products?
Bethan, I don’t need your advice.
If you can’t recognize good information when you see it, then that’s *your* problem, not mine.
Argument by insult, the standard approach of the Left, seems to be the way you operate. Any substance in there? In that brain of yours, I’m mean.
You get caught out in your lies and this is the best you got? How sad, and predictable.
Did Ghalfrunt tell people to drink bleach?
Shame on you.
Dawg Derg:
Grapefruit said no such thing about bleach.
He writes intelligent comments.
Probably over your head.
Way over.
Try to drink less liquor before you post comments.
Richard Ghalfrunt is a liar. Ghalfrunt claimed Trump said people should drink bleach.
Yes, Ghalfrunt did make the claim that Trump was promoting drinking/injecting bleach as a method to treat the Wuhan virus.
I did not see any Grapefruit comment on this thread concerning Trump and bleach.
Maybe I missed it. The truth is Trump did not use the word “bleach”. Does anyone ever listen to the transcript before shooting off their mouth? Trump asked a team of doctors about various ways to kill SARS2 outside the body from ultraviolet lights to disinfectants. He wondered (asked) whether it was possible to use those tools inside the body. They were logical questions, and stated in a way that showed an interest in knowing what medications or procedures were being tried for SARS2 . Trump sounded intelligent with his questions.
Anyone who claims Trump told people to drink bleach is a deliberate liar.
Unfortunately. deliberate lying about Trump is very common among leftists.
“I did not see any Grapefruit comment on this thread concerning Trump and bleach.
Maybe I missed it.”
I wasn’t in this thread. He wrote it some time ago. Derg just likes to remind him of it.
Some will remember that I have posted in support of HCQ on numerous occasions, and I am happy that common sense has prevailed. I have HCQ (and Ivermectin) in my home office.
Some may recall that I have repeatedly plead with you and the authorities to test the spread of SARS-CoV-2 via air concentration by increasing make-up aid in HVAC systems. My analysis shows that Brownian-motion sized aerosol droplets accumulating beyond a certain level can lead to infections of the ACE-2 cells in the throat. This easy to test. I said, 4 months ago, that I would enter the first restaurant that had a sign “We Use 100% make-up air.”
As I have notified you before, evidence is building that the primary mode of spreading of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is via airborne aerosols.
Each individual has the ability to combat virus attacks, based on a number of factors. For Covid-19 these include having adequate tissue zinc and Vitamin D3.
When the quantity of viral particles in an airspace and the individuals time in that space exceeds his/her Minimum Infective Dose, the virus may reproduce at a rate the immune system cannot overcome.
The solution to this is to increase ventilation, that is, bring in more fresh air to dilute the virus concentration. This is beginning to be seen clearly in the current virus outbreaks as the seasons change.
Particularly, in Europe, as people withdraw indoors, the pleasant weather tends to reduce the use of ventilation systems, either fans or A/C . Although a typical HVAC system has much too little fresh make-up air to be very efficient at diluting viruses in a pub or restaurant, it is fairly effective for small single-family flats or houses. Whole-house fans, popular in Europe, are very effective. Cooler fall weather means they will be turned off, and the airborne viral load will increase.
Thigs are even worse in the Winter. Since diluting with fresh air quickly increases heating costs, too much attention is paid to preventing air infiltration, and the airborne virus concentration soars even higher. These factors account for flue and other virus episodes much more than humidity and temperature alone.
I must finish by mentioning a regression analysis experiment that regresses number of viral flu cases against humidity. As I have mentioned before, the fit was weak, around 50%. But when absolute air moisture, in grains H2O per cubic foot was used, R^2 jumped to over 80%. There are reasons for this, but ventilation is more important.
PLEASE do something to spread this information. It is critical.
Sincerely worried,
(ENGINER01)
again, my last letter to Governor DeSantis’s office :
Vaccine concerns
“But what was worrying was it seemed to mutate in the mink, and the strain of virus they isolated from the mink was different from the one that had come from the human.
“Now that will happen, mutation happens all the time spontaneously, but the worrying thing here was that the new mutant would not be one that a vaccine would protect against.
“So in other words that it had changed so that there’s a risk that the vaccines being developed may not protect against that strain.
“And that’s why they got an alarming signal from this.
“214 people got infected actually from mink in Denmark”.
According to the World Health Organisation (WHO): “It is normal for viruses to mutate or change over time.
“WHO has been following genetic changes in the COVID-19 virus since the start of the pandemic through a dedicated COVID-19 virology working group.
“When a virus moves from humans to animal populations such as mink, and back to humans, it can acquire unique mutations.
Didn’t the WHO find that the virus was not transferred person to person?
No they did not
The World Health Organization said the Wuhan virus can spread from human to human on Jan. 21, 2020. President Trump stopped travel from China on Jan 31, 2020.
Jan. 21, 2020, is about three months after the Wuhan virus was discovered, and about a month or more after Taiwan notified the WHO that there was a highly infectious disease spreading rapidly in China.
A new, rapidly spreading virus should have been obvious to everyone involved long before Jan. 21, 2020. It appears to me that the late notification about the Wuhan virus was purely political. I believe WHO knew they had an infectious virus on their hands long before they notified the world.
I guess if Traitor Joe Biden gets awarded the presidency, he will give WHO back their $400 million Trump took away from them, plus a little extra. WHO and China will be very happey.
It will be worse than an Idiocracy, if Traitor Joe gets in Office. What’s the appropriate word to use? Disasterocracy?
It is quite important for the vaccine producers that there be no effective treatment available at low cost. The US government rules about funding a vaccine mean that a low cost reasonably effective treatment will get funded, not a vaccine costing billions.
In March it was important to vilify HQC in order to rush Remdesivir through emergency permission – which was done in 4 weeks. It is about half as effective as HCQ and only when given early. Now it is the turn for vaccines – they need time and they have to be worth the vast additional cost. Lives have a $ value, that is a fact.
Some formula exists to rate the cost of the mass vaccination campaign measured against the losses of life it the HQC combination treatment isn’t totally effective. Then triggers will be pulled. Big Pharma would prefer the vaccination route. Is anyone surprised?
As an ICU doctor let me just say your citations are complete BS. First, you are using a study that has not been peer reviewed and published by a reputable journal. Second, even taken at face value, it is not an actual well designed RCT, but a meta-analysis of previous studies. Meta-analyses are hypothesis generating, not hypothesis proving. They depend a lot on what studies the authors decide to include vs reject. In addition, the p value was .025, while below the minimal threshold of .05, not compelling numbers. In the real world, most US patients received HCQ in March and April, but very few have since. Meanwhile, hospital mortality has come down sharply in the era when we abandoned HCQ. I stopped using it as it doesnt actually work.
You guys just don’t get it. Early treatment with HCQ is to keep people from having to see people like you, and it reportedly works very well for that. Lots of doctors as qualified as you testify to that. Tell us what experience you have treating outpatients early; that’s right, you don’t have any. Early treatment is the key, which the cabal you work for actively discourages and forbids.
Mortality started dropping sharply when the cover was blown off the early intubation scandal and hospitals realized they better change their death-dealing ways, i.e., not exacerbating, or worst case causing, the condition they were treating. Physician heal thyself before you start condemning what others are having success with, while you have none.
You don’t get it icisil. Listen to the doctor icisil….it doesn’t work. I’m sure the doctor has treated many more COVID patients than you have.
He treats patients that have progressed to serious illness because they didn’t receive early treatment. You need to listen to doctors that do have success with early treatments. See my link above about the MD who has treated over 1900 covid patients with no deaths and only one hospitalization.
re: “Listen to the doctor icisil….it doesn’t work.”
Yeah … “listen to him all the way to the morgue”
We get it, you don’t. The idea is to SURVIVE and _ not_ become “a statistic.”
And yet another lie from you. Yawn. Get a new pony, huney, the one you are beating is long dead.
“Tell us what experience you have treating outpatients early; that’s right, you don’t have any.”
I think that boils it down. We got no reply from the good doctor so we have to assume that icisil is correct that the doctor does not treat patients in the early stages of the Wuhan virus disease, so he really has no experience with treating patients in the early stages..
The whole point of using HCQ and other medications is to try to nip the Wuhan virus spread through the body, in the bud. The sooner a person is treated, the better. It prevents the virus from building up into huge numbers in the body and eliminates the virus from the body in about a week, give or take a few days (supposedly, the length of time depends on the amount of infection a person had when first treated).
If you don’t believe the anectdotal evidence of the numerous doctors who sing the praises of HCQ and other medications, then don’t take them, but don’t deny these medications to people who do want to take them, and who have their doctors permission to take them. The medications are not harmful to humans in 99 percent of cases, so there is no reason not to take them, if there are no alternatives.
Not treating the Wuhan virus early leaves a person at risk of very serious, possibly life-long illness, and death. The Wuhan virus does not affect certain people very much, but for others, it is deadly, and we don’t understand the reasons why just now, so to be on the safe side, we should treat people early with everything we have available.
The new vaccines make make this argument mute soon (Thanks President Trump) but it’s not mute now and if I get Wuhan, I’m treating it as fast as I can. I don’t like the thought of blood clots in all my vital organs.
Do you mean the Lancet peer-reviewed paper of a meta-analysis that claimed that a high dose of HCQ administered after the disease had progressed to cause systemic damage, does not work, but was later withdrawn? Or the observational studies globally, where mortality was reduced and full recovery occurred in 80 to 90% of patients?
So true– poorer countries, with a combined population of 2 billion, used HCQ in their fight against C-19 and saw a death rate per million population of only a *fifth* of what the richer countries, with a combined population of 600 million, experienced.
re: ” Meanwhile, hospital mortality has come down sharply in the era when we abandoned HCQ.”
Shoveling a patient full of some drug (any drug) LATE in the game and expecting a positive result? Against a virus no less?
What are you thinking? Might was well try BLEACH …
Philippe Tcheng @philtcheng posted:
https://twitter.com/philtcheng/status/1325757122970267648
(He says French news chanel CNEWS is as awful, racist, xenophobic as Fox.)
But Philippe Tcheng is a nobody you will say?
He is not well known, but he was president of:
Le Leem est l’association professionnelle qui regroupe les entreprises du #médicament en France. #pharma
https://twitter.com/LeemFrance
A media relation head of French Pharma.
The image:
Biden says he will save the world.
He will appoint a board of 12 (first payoff already) to study the problem.
In the meantime, there is the Planned Parent choice, accountable for nearly half of recorded deaths in America, to reduce excess “burdens” and promote social progress.
“‘All professions are conspiracies against the laity” *
And in the US the FDA is in on it too.
*Some Irish playwright.
Your virtual nondoctor (according to AMA) will see you now. Sorry for the 30 nanosecond wait time. No payment is required.
“Do you have pics of these non-mask wearing Biden supporters?”
The first thing Biden (and Harris) do when addressing the public is take off their masks.
Then they carefully dispose of their masks and wash their hands to mitigate the progress of spreading the viral/bacterial load that accumulates on the surfaces and filter layers. What happened to their goggles? The eyes are a window to contagion.
Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study
There is accumulating evidence that the primary transmission mode is fecal transmission, and aerosol and droplet spread is limited to close, sustained contact with forced (i.e. coughing, sneezing) transmission in active cases. The former bypasses most masks, which create a false sense of safety (a placebo effect?). The latter evaporates and is either ingested or projected to surroundings. In the best case, in a controlled environment with trained individuals, masks have limited utility, and may be counterproductive as they are viral/bacterial collectors.
Ah yes, the use of data dredges to try to find statistical significance:
“All calculations were done in Excel, and results were considered to be statistically significant at a two-sided threshold of P=.05. Results–Five randomized controlled clinical trials enrolling 5,577 patients were included. HCQ was associated with a 24% reduction in COVID-19 infection, hospitalization or death, P=.025 (RR, 0.76 [95% CI, 0.59 to 0.97]).
If only there was some software, available free and open source, which could better run statistical tests? Perhaps one named after a letter of the alphabet?
And what were the selection criteria that included those five studies but excluded others included in a bigger study which showed no effect on coronavirus results for HQC but which were stopped because they cause increased deaths? Can we know what those were, because it sounds awfully like cherrypicking?
Yes, HCQ works in early treatment and prophylactic. If you don’t want to use then don’t, all the rest of us will decide for ourselves. Yea, I know, that is the part that pisses you off so much.
“all the rest of us will decide for ourselves”
In some cases you and your doctor might have a dialog.
You: I believe that HCQ works.
Doc: I use a different protocol and don’t know much about HCQ.
You: You know of the placebo effect? Even when the patient knows it is a placebo, it cures. I believe that the safe HCQ in reasonable dose given early would help me. Give me that which you consider a placebo and carry on with your favorite protocol. Unless, by chance, I might be harmed by the known short-term side effects of which I can find none.
Had very much that conversation with my ENT specialist. Several years ago he had wanted me to start using Plaquenil as a treatment for the effects of Sjogren’s Syndrome, reducing inflammation, and I turned it down because it has several adverse effects on eyes. Couple months ago I asked about HCQ in low dosage to help with inflammation in my knees and back pain and he wrote the ‘scrip, 5mg every other day. Added benefit? Upping vitamin D and zinc means colds and flu are far less likely in my future, including Chinese Disease.
The real question is why are so many politicians so bound and determined to stop people from using a proven, cheap pharmaceutical treatment that millions of people have used for decades. That answer is what people should actually be worried about.