Vindication of HCQ

Let’s start with a quote from an op ed last month in the NY Daily News

Because of the medication’s politicization, and the pernicious tendency for dissenting perspectives to be silenced during the pandemic, data supporting hydroxychloroquine’s effectiveness have been almost inaudible. But a recent analysis pooling together results of randomized clinical trials testing hydroxychloroquine’s use in early COVID-19 infection should substantially raise the volume.

The hydroxychloroquine saga cannot be fully appreciated without first considering the unusual circumstances under which it arose. While the medical profession has always sustained debate over which treatments are best, the tenor of the hydroxychloroquine controversy is unique. Physicians who have advocated for its effectiveness have remained steadfast in their support of the medication, despite unsupportive clinical trials enrolling hospitalized patients, social media blackouts of their opinions, and a chorus of politicians and health officials telling them — and the country — that they’re not only wrong but reckless.

While physicians who hold marginalized or unpopular positions about treatments are often considered by peers to be motivated by profit or other self-serving interests, these physicians were unnoteworthy in that regard, and would largely have been considered “mainstream” prior to the pandemic. Their clinical experiences were dismissed as anecdotal, but consistently achieving patient outcomes that were markedly better than those reported around the country fueled their confidence and tenacity. The nation and the world may now benefit from their steadfastness.

Here’s a couple of papers which establish the life saving value in early hydroxychloroquine treatment. The first is the one referred to in the op-ed.

Randomized Controlled Trials of Early Ambulatory Hydroxychloroquine in the Prevention of COVID-19 Infection, Hospitalization, and Death: Meta-Analysis

Abstract

Objective–To determine if hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) reduces the incidence of new illness, hospitalization or death among outpatients at risk for or infected with SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19). Design–Systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials. Data sources–Search of MEDLINE, EMBASE, PubMed, medRxiv, PROSPERO, and the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials. Also review of reference lists from recent meta-analyses. Study selection–Randomized clinical trials in which participants were treated with HCQ or placebo/standard-of-care for pre-exposure prophylaxis, post-exposure prophylaxis, or outpatient therapy for COVID-19. Methods–Two investigators independently extracted data on trial design and outcomes. Medication side effects and adverse reactions were also assessed. The primary outcome was COVID-19 hospitalization or death. When unavailable, new COVID-19 infection was used. We calculated random effects meta-analysis according to the method of DerSimonian and Laird. Heterogeneity between the studies was evaluated by calculation of Cochran Q and I2 parameters. An Egger funnel plot was drawn to investigate publication bias. We also calculated the fixed effects meta-analysis summary of the five studies. All calculations were done in Excel, and results were considered to be statistically significant at a two-sided threshold of P=.05. Results–Five randomized controlled clinical trials enrolling 5,577 patients were included. HCQ was associated with a 24% reduction in COVID-19 infection, hospitalization or death, P=.025 (RR, 0.76 [95% CI, 0.59 to 0.97]). No serious adverse cardiac events were reported. The most common side effects were gastrointestinal. Conclusion–Hydroxychloroquine use in outpatients reduces the incidence of the composite outcome of COVID-19 infection, hospitalization, and death. Serious adverse events were not reported and cardiac arrhythmia was rare. Systematic review registration–This review was not registered.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.30.20204693v1

And

Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection

Abstract

Approximately 9 months of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavius-2 (SARS-CoV-2 [COVID-19]) spreading across the globe has led to widespread COVID-19 acute hospitalizations and death. The rapidity and highly communicable nature of the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak has hampered the design and execution of definitive randomized, controlled trials of therapy outside of the clinic or hospital. In the absence of clinical trial results, physicians must use what has been learned about the pathophysiology of SARS-CoV-2 infection in determining early outpatient treatment of the illness with the aim of preventing hospitalization or death. This article outlines key pathophysiological principles that relate to the patient with early infection treated at home.

Therapeutic approaches based on these principles include 1) reduction of reinoculation, 2) combination antiviral therapy, 3) immunomodulation, 4) antiplatelet/antithrombotic therapy, and 5) administration of oxygen, monitoring, and telemedicine. Future randomized trials testing the principles and agents discussed will undoubtedly refine and clarify their individual roles; however, we emphasize the immediate need for management guidance in the setting of widespread hospital resource consumption, morbidity, and mortality.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltext
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Jeffery P
November 9, 2020 6:32 am

Covid is so over. Hundreds of thousands (my guess) came out to protest/celebrate the election. No prophylactic masks in sight. No chiding about super spreader events, no chastising attendees about their selfish, irresponsible behavior killing grandma, etc.

George Daddis
Reply to  Jeffery P
November 9, 2020 7:15 am

I was blocked by Facebook when making that observation in a very civil manner.

Similarly yesterday when an article was posted about a favorable US employment rate, Facebook added a WARNING . When I simply asked why a plain economic report warranted a label, I was blocked again.

My guess is THIS article would get a FB warning also.

In my opinion they have reached a tipping point and either the government or users (find an alternate site) need to rein them in.

Kenji
Reply to  George Daddis
November 9, 2020 7:55 am

My daughter was one of the very FIRST adopters of Fackebook while in college. It proved to be a useful means of connecting with her friends, and she spoke glowingly of it. Despite her encouragement, I have never once been “on” or signed-up for a Fackebook acct. Why? Call it “instinct”. I don’t think much of social media sites such as Fackebook and Twitter as a general rule … but something appeared even creepier about Fackebook. Thankfully … trusting my instincts has always served me well … and I will never give Fackebook the time of day (lest they ban me for biased comments … particular to my own timezone).

Neo
Reply to  Kenji
November 9, 2020 9:35 am

The first and foremost truth about Facebook is
You are the product.

RockyRoad
Reply to  Neo
November 10, 2020 9:37 am

…or rather, you are the prisoner and a poorly-fed one at that.

Meab
Reply to  George Daddis
November 9, 2020 8:33 am

Unfortunately, the only way to rein in the GooFace Twits and Yahoos is to let their advertisers know that you won’t be buying their products until they stop censoring content.

2hotel9
Reply to  Meab
November 9, 2020 3:03 pm

Their advertisers want them to censor content, that leaves only THEIR content to generate income.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  George Daddis
November 9, 2020 8:37 am

Just be prepared for a sudden reduction in CoVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths starting on January 21.

Ian W
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 9, 2020 9:08 am

No the reduction in the pandemic will only come after the UN/WEF Great Reset meeting in Davos n January.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 9, 2020 9:16 am

It’ll be put down to the Pfizer Vaccine. Provisional results of there tests were somewhat problematic since they say they didn`t get enough people to have the virus.

Out of a test of 48,000 ony half of which received the vaccine, there were 96 cases. I expect Pfizer was a little more careful and accurate than the governent zealots in testing for the virus, after all, law suites could hang on their diligence. That`s 0,4%. Wuhoo Flu anyone

That is 96 out of 24,000

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 9, 2020 10:11 am

That is actually a spectacular win for Pfizer:

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/09/vaccine-efficacy-data#comment-332266

And for the rest of us, too.

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 9, 2020 5:30 pm

It is quite important for the vaccine producers that there be no effective treatment available at low cost. The US government rules about funding a vaccine mean that a low cost reasonably effective treatment will get funded, not a vaccine costing billions.

In March it was important to vilify HQC in order to rush Remdesivir through emergency permission – which was done in 4 weeks. It is about half as effective as HCQ and only when given early. Now it is the turn for vaccines – they need time and they have to be worth the vast additional cost. Lives have a $ value, that is a fact.

Some formula exists to rate the cost of the mass vaccination campaign measured against the losses of life it the HQC combination treatment isn’t totally effective. Then triggers will be pulled. Big Pharma would prefer the vaccination route. Is anyone surprised?

boffin77
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 9, 2020 9:16 pm

I find the Oxford Vaccine announcements more persuasive than Pfizer’s announcements:

YouTube shows Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at Oxford, describing their vaccine work in Spring 2020. At that time Oxford was moving into Phase 2 trials. [by the way, when he says “Glandular Fever” he means what we used to call “Mononucleosis.”] Oxford is now teamed with Astrazeneca. A report on Oxford’s research indicates that Phase 3 was underway by August 31 and has enrolled 30,000 volunteers. Oxford’s vaccine is called AZD1222.

Oxford reports better results that Pfizer: “Neutralizing activity [of AZD1222] against SAR=CoV-2 was seen in . . . 100% of participants who received a second dose.”

Oxford reports that “Under the new agreement, as well as providing UK access as early as possible if the vaccine candidate is successful, AstraZeneca will work with global partners on the international distribution of the vaccine, particularly working to make it available and accessible for low and medium income countries.”

“Both partners (Oxford and AstraZeneca) have agreed to operate on a not-for-profit basis for the duration of the coronavirus pandemic, with only the costs of production and distribution being covered. Oxford University and its spin-out company Vaccitech, who jointly have the rights to the platform technology used to develop the vaccine candidate, will receive no royalties from the vaccine during the pandemic. Any royalties the University subsequently receives from the vaccine will be reinvested directly back into medical research, including a new Pandemic Preparedness and Vaccine Research Centre. The center is being developed in collaboration with AstraZeneca.”

Two weeks ago, ABC News showed six companies in Phase 3 trials), including Oxford and Pfizer. Pfizer is certainly grabbing all the headlines today, but Oxford started Phase 3 before Pfizer. The Pfizer website indicates that two weeks ago (Oct 22) they were carrying out “a Phase 2b/3 clinical trial for BioNTech’s mRNA-based vaccine candidate BNT162b2.” They report their vaccine has an efficiency of only 90% after the second vaccination.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 10, 2020 4:18 am

Id rather take the Ivomec thanks.
see here listen OR transcript
I enjoyed hearing it cos Norman Swan was dissing the Ivermectin as risky due to high doses…except? they arent required;-) moderate levels near zero side effects

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/healthreport/ivermectin-and-monoclonal-antibodies-coronavirus-treatments/12839508

Neo
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 10, 2020 9:40 am

WaPo:
No, Pfizer’s apparent vaccine success is not a function of Trump’s ‘Operation Warp Speed’

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html

HHS web site:
Fact Sheet: Explaining Operation Warp Speed
July 22: HHS announced up to $1.95 billion in funds to Pfizer for the large-scale manufacturing and nationwide distribution of 100 million doses of their vaccine candidate. The federal government will own the 100 million doses of vaccine initially produced as a result of this agreement, and Pfizer will deliver the doses in the United States if the product successfully receives FDA EUA or licensure, as outlined in FDA guidance, after completing demonstration of safety and efficacy in a large Phase 3 clinical trial, which began July 27th.

ghalfrunt
Reply to  DMA
November 9, 2020 2:28 pm

just don’t go near any mink!!!

Roger Knights
Reply to  DMA
November 14, 2020 4:23 am

I’ve read that Pfizer’s vaccine must be stored at a much lower temperature than hospitals’ refrigeration units can handle, that only a few research centers have such low-temperature storage units, and that they are expensive.
I’ve also heard that the vaccine won’t be available in volume until the middle of next year.

Gary
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 12, 2020 3:38 pm

From what level Jim. “Cases” are rising by about 10,000 per day. per: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

2hotel9
Reply to  Gary
November 13, 2020 5:10 am

The more tests are done the more”cases” will be found. It is the flu, people have to get it and get over it, those with multiple comorbidities need to be quarantined and steps to protect them taken. Period. Full stop.

Reply to  George Daddis
November 9, 2020 12:52 pm

George Daddio
Facebook is trying to give you a hint: SUPPORT THEIR LEFTIST AGENDA or STOP USING FACEBOOK (Stop using Twitter too. And Google).

I never started using Facebook and Twitter in the first place, and I avoid Google at least 95% of the time for searches. Try DuckDuckGo == not quite as good as Google but works as well
95% of the time

Don’t support organizations that hate Republicans, conservatives and libertarians, and made such as effort at censorship to get hidin’ Biden elected.

William Astley
Reply to  George Daddis
November 9, 2020 4:28 pm

George.

What happened to you is terrifying, as it is part of evil plan.

What is happening is the very end of thoughtful speech. Why now? Why are all of the internet companies working instep?

At some point in time we need to at least state the obvious.

What has just happened? We are fighting an evil paradigm change. In the US, there is evidence of a election fraud, coinciding with a strange step change in almost of the internet companies and media companies in the world. Independent companies look as if they are now all puppets.

Ten years ago. No one would have believed what just happened, could happen or could be allowed to happen.

And it is a fact that there is peer reviewed evidence that supports the assertion that the covid virus, is man-made. It anesthetizes the throat cells to stop pain when it attacks, That ‘feature’ enables it to spread as the person does not feel sick. The virus then moves on to other organs where it causes blood clots. In a small number of people the virus triggers an auto-immune attack where the body attacks itself so there are weird dangerous long term side effects.

This is a virus that is design to make us isolate. And China just happens to have some protection. And China is the only country in the world that has positive GDP growth. That is a great deal of coincidences.

I do not believe that a massive number of weird, evil things all suddenly happen in the last year, naturally.

I believe in scientific explanations. It takes lots and lots of money and paid minions to make all the evil things that have happened in the last year to happen,

We are the last Free informed people, before the Dems pass laws to shutdown any communication that is anti whatever they deem to be a threat to their plan to destroy our countries. Simple as uncontrolled spending and political madness.

This weird country killing, Left-wing ideology is not random madness. This stuff was created to destroy our countries. The Left now have weaponized fake caring like ideas, created to make chaos, not to solve problems.

What does open borders create? Massive shanty towns. Does it help failing countries? No, it helps our country fail. What do the Green scams create? Expensive and unreliable electricity and more damage to the environment.

The so called green stuff wears out in 15 years and needs to be replaced. There is almost no real reduction in CO2 emissions if all of the energy inputs are taken into account. Fake problem, fake solutions.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  George Daddis
November 10, 2020 3:10 am

TwitGooBook all feel emboldereed now they`ve been told Trump is gone. We shall see; I look forward to the next 4 weeks and it would be a joy to see Trump return with a vengence.

James
Reply to  George Daddis
November 10, 2020 7:49 am

Set up an account on Parler. It might be a bit slow for a day or two, there were 2 million new downloads of the app yesterday!

papertiger
Reply to  George Daddis
November 10, 2020 12:25 pm

Seems like the Facebook, with their billions of dollars, is in a prime lawsuit zone.

If my grandma died because she wasn’t given an over the counter, inexpensive, easily obtained otherwise, drug, with a hundred year safety record, because mention of it as an option was banned by a public utility like Facebook, I’d be pissed.

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  George Daddis
November 10, 2020 1:12 pm

George consider CloutHub.
https://www.clouthub.com/home

Latitude
Reply to  Jeffery P
November 9, 2020 7:31 am

…and their argument for mail in ballots was liberals are too smart to spread it

mcswell
Reply to  Jeffery P
November 9, 2020 9:03 am

Not sure where you’re seeing that. I was sitting at an outdoors restaurant table in DC on Saturday afternoon, and everyone I saw celebrating was wearing a mask. And when I looked at images on-line just now (searched for “crowds cheering Biden”), virtually everyone was wearing a mask over mouth and nose. Do you have pics of these non-mask wearing Biden supporters?

Grant
Reply to  mcswell
November 10, 2020 7:37 pm

They were all over the news in videos

barry
Reply to  Grant
November 14, 2020 6:46 pm

Then it should be easy to provide lots of clips via links. Fox News via youtube should ave plenty to pick from.

stephen richards
Reply to  Jeffery P
November 9, 2020 9:50 am

Maybe or maybe not. They have announced a new mutation called CoVid 19 minks

Megs
Reply to  stephen richards
November 9, 2020 1:11 pm

Denmark is set to lose mink businesses that are generational. I spoke to a friend a few days ago who said that someone he knew well had his entire stock slaughtered and destroyed by a government order, he is as you would expect devastated.

Businesses that have been affected by the mutated Covid-19 virus have been successfully separating and quarantining sick animals, and destroying the dead. I believe that the government have decided that it’s not enough, that it’s necessary to cull the entire mink population accross the country. Some of the breeding stock have taken generations to perfect. This will be an entire industry lost.

I don’t believe that there have been humans infected by the mink.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Megs
November 10, 2020 3:16 am

Mad Dane Disease – similar to the Mad Cow Disease that affected the Brits a few years back: hysteria is the scientific term I believe.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Megs
November 10, 2020 4:23 am

7 mink farm workers apparently got the mink mutated version
not a word if they died though
odd isnt it?
I wont be surprised to read later some very clever lil minks did a runner to a safe haven
hope so
the entire pop cull is as stupid n needless as the UK foot n mouth murderspree was.

John A
Reply to  Jeffery P
November 15, 2020 2:52 pm

Yes its so over with 11.3 million cases and rising exponentially, 251,000+ deaths and the world’s greatest non-socialized healthcare system buckling under the strain, while the President ignores it all (hasn’t been to a meeting of the Taskforce in more than five months) and focusses on the non-existent voter fraud that caused him to lose re-election.

Were the crowds celebrating Trump’s loss taking the coronavirus seriously? I mean you claim that they did not wear masks, so how about some reality? A few pictures from many thousands:

https://images.app.goo.gl/QnsLDcqsDawcGhdt7 (Deutsche Welt)
https://images.app.goo.gl/h8zzvqk94D8WANiGA (Times of Israel)
https://images.app.goo.gl/hDq1H99fwDwydoUy9 (Boston Globe)
https://images.app.goo.gl/v7Pkz2fApAiSG3Km8 (NY Post)
https://images.app.goo.gl/iiXuLvV1VqbxReYw5 (San Francisco Examiner)

Answer: Yes

Meanwhile at the Million MAGA Tears March (about 5000-6000, tops), they were taking their President’s attitude to the coronavirus:

https://images.app.goo.gl/ycMBcbZJzZEcyAZd7
https://images.app.goo.gl/jPNyBH9tRH5UehSE9 (UPI)
https://images.app.goo.gl/nWocMjCY612ehkxo7 (MPR)

If only they had access to the free public healthcare their President had but didn’t pay for in taxes.

2hotel9
Reply to  John A
November 16, 2020 6:58 am

Want fewer “cases”? Stop testing everyone. Why? We have all had it and got over it. Thats what happens with the flu, Johnnie.

Scissor
November 9, 2020 6:38 am

And no mention of zinc in the first study. Nevertheless, the results are positive.

Ian W
Reply to  Scissor
November 9, 2020 9:05 am

Precisely.

Zn(2+) inhibits coronavirus and arterivirus RNA polymerase activity in vitro and zinc ionophores block the replication of these viruses in cell culture

Abstract
Increasing the intracellular Zn(2+) concentration with zinc-ionophores like pyrithione (PT) can efficiently impair the replication of a variety of RNA viruses, including poliovirus and influenza virus. For some viruses this effect has been attributed to interference with viral polyprotein processing. In this study we demonstrate that the combination of Zn(2+) and PT at low concentrations (2 µM Zn(2+) and 2 µM PT) inhibits the replication of SARS-coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and equine arteritis virus (EAV) in cell culture. The RNA synthesis of these two distantly related nidoviruses is catalyzed by an RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp), which is the core enzyme of their multiprotein replication and transcription complex (RTC). Using an activity assay for RTCs isolated from cells infected with SARS-CoV or EAV–thus eliminating the need for PT to transport Zn(2+) across the plasma membrane–we show that Zn(2+) efficiently inhibits the RNA-synthesizing activity of the RTCs of both viruses. Enzymatic studies using recombinant RdRps (SARS-CoV nsp12 and EAV nsp9) purified from E. coli subsequently revealed that Zn(2+) directly inhibited the in vitro activity of both nidovirus polymerases. More specifically, Zn(2+) was found to block the initiation step of EAV RNA synthesis, whereas in the case of the SARS-CoV RdRp elongation was inhibited and template binding reduced. By chelating Zn(2+) with MgEDTA, the inhibitory effect of the divalent cation could be reversed, which provides a novel experimental tool for in vitro studies of the molecular details of nidovirus replication and transcription.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21079686/
dated Nov 2010

The requirement is for intracellular zinc to be at a particular level where it BLOCKS replication of RNA viruses. HCQ was just a good zinc ionophore. Quercetin is another. The clinical trials were all deliberately set for severely ill patients not outpatients and almost all deliberately excluded zinc supplementation. Why would they do that? Well the sentence I have highlighted in the abstract shows why. Intracellular zinc blocks replication of RNA viruses – including influenza and polio. In other words some of the highest grossing vaccination programs are threatened by diet supplementation with zinc and a zinc ionophore. There are many ‘immunity vitamins’ for sale that are just this a mix of zinc plus quercetin another zinc ionophore. The zinc/zinc ionophore increase the body’s INNATE immunity by increasing intracellular zinc.
This pandemic could have been stopped if in January the medical community could have used existing ten year old research and proposed zinc/zinc ionophore supplementation plus perhaps vitamin D3 and selenium.
This is old research, the ‘front line doctors’ used this approach and saved thousands of patients. But the medical bureaucrats tied to vaccination programs called these thousands of cured patients ‘anecdotal’.
See the Zelenko protocol.

It is probable that there are other reasons than the purely venal that a cheap available and successful outpatient treatment was not allowed by the medical bureaucracy but none of those reasons were to do with stopping the pandemic or reducing loss of life.

How many people have died because of this vaccination vs cheap non-patentable cure?

boffin77
Reply to  Ian W
November 13, 2020 5:04 pm

History should one day recognize the intentional coverup of Zinc / HCQ against COVID as a crime against humanity.

I’m not holding my breath.

TonyG
Reply to  boffin77
November 13, 2020 5:35 pm

History is written by the victors. We will never know the truth of anything that happened this last decade, or more.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Ian W
November 14, 2020 4:30 am

re quercitin: It’s available online from Amazon from a dozen suppliers. Below is the one I’ve ordered for myself & relatives, preventatively and “just in case.”

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086ZFC6JL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Scissor
November 9, 2020 9:17 am

Well, normally your natural body levels of zinc are sufficient I expect; enhancing them makes it more effective. But I am not medically trained.

Ian W
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 9, 2020 9:59 am

There is significant zinc deficiency in many diets for example China has problems with zinc deficiency https://crops.zinc.org/china/
There is a tendency to become zinc deficient with age – which seems to correlate with the severity of COVID-19 with age. https://bestpractice.bmj.com/topics/en-gb/1195
So an older person in a care home with perhaps not the best diet is likely to be less resistant to SARS-CoV-2 than someone active eating a well balanced diet – again this is what is seen.

It could almost be said that COVID_19 is a disease of the zinc deficient.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Ian W
November 9, 2020 2:12 pm

Vitamin D deficiency in the care home was also significant in the fatalities.

2hotel9
Reply to  Ian W
November 9, 2020 2:55 pm

Or targeted to zinc deficient individuals. China is heavily involved in the nursing home/long term care facility industries in America and Europe. Monitoring such information and applying it would not be difficult for a tech savvy entity like CCP. They routinely show that they have no problem with killing huge numbers of people simply over ideology, much less profit and mass control of people.

Henry
Reply to  Ian W
November 10, 2020 5:19 pm

and vitamin D

Hell_Is_Like_Newark
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 9, 2020 12:52 pm

About four years ago I started supplementing zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. I was undergoing regular tests at the time due to a health issue. The effect of doing so was pretty dramatic (blood work and other test results).

An added benefit is I stopped getting severe colds. I would always catch it from someone at the office like twice per year. Most I get now is the sniffles for a day, then its gone.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 10, 2020 4:32 am

in Aus we used galvanised iron rainwater tanks in most houses until town water got good enough,
so aussies got trace zinc easily
as we did with copper from pipes and water heater liners
now theyre glass lined tanks for HWS and damned polypipe in homes and plastic tanks;-((
a tablespoon of coppersulphate in the plastic tanks keeps slime n bugs down and restores OUR levels of copper at least
the zinc we now need to supplement(or buy a tin tank again, they dont melt in bushfires as fast either.)

BFL
Reply to  Scissor
November 9, 2020 4:54 pm

Supposedly Zinc is more effective when taken with a Zinc ionophore (aids cell uptake) of which Hydroxychloroquine is one. But there are others such as epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG in green tea), CO-Q10, and molybdenum. In addition those with low Vitamin D levels were much more susceptible in an Italian study. Also recommended by some doctors is an over the counter steroidal anti-histamine nose spray if symptoms occur. India has had a much lower fatality rate possibly because Hydroxychloroquine was available over the counter.
Because the Democrats are ones that have provided strong opposition to any treatments that Trump has suggested might work, contrary to MSM propaganda the Dems are actually the ones responsible for excess deaths for which they will never be held accountable.

Dudley Horscroft
Reply to  BFL
November 10, 2020 9:46 pm

From the article Burden of Malaria in India, (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1720/ I find:

“The salient features of the national drug policy that has been modified and approved in January 2007 by the NVB-DCP are as follows:

All efforts should be made to confirm the diagnosis of malaria. If it is not possible, chloroquine in full therapeutic dose of 25 mg/kg body weight over 3 days should be given to all cases of clinical malaria including confirmed cases at all levels, irrespective of high- or low-risk malaria status of district/block. In high-risk areas, in addition to chloro-quine, primaquine (single dose) should be given. Practice of presumptive treatment with 600 mg chloroquine will be discontinued.”

So there are a large number of people who take chloroquine in India as a cure/treatment for Malaria. As a result there would be a corresponding large number who are protected against Covid-19. This may be why where Malaria is present in India and Africa, cases are lower than in Europe and the USA. Of course it is possible that cases are just not reported? or confused with the Flu?

Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 6:38 am

Trump’s rapid recovery may possibly be explained by the fact he was taking HCQ regularly (unknown is whether he continued to take it right up to contracting it). Such a recovery would be hard to fake given the exhausting campaign schedule that he was on after one week. Biden was exhausted without having been inffected.

I have HCQ left over from a trip to Minas Gerais where I was evaluating mining projects in 2018. These I kept handy!

Ron Long
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 7:19 am

Awesome, Gary, Minas Gerais is one place I’ve never been. I took chloroquine as anti-malarial in Vietnam, but there wasn’t any interesting geology to go with it.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Ron Long
November 9, 2020 11:50 am

Hi Ron, yeah I enjoyed it very much. The temperatures are moderated in mountainous terrain and they had a bit more seasonal rain than usual in late 2017 so it was (according to locals) a lot greener than usual. I was looking at deposits in an extensive lithium pegmatite field in the NE, centered on the small city of Araçuai and along the Jequitahonha River which was the the source of the first discovery of diamonds in Brazil in the 18th Century by alluvial gold miners.

Brazil has had only modest Lithium production as most of it is artisanally mined. The potential is huge however as local miners picked away at what turned out to be the edges of large deposits.

I wound up taking HCQ for only a few days, hence my stash I have on hand.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 7:42 am

“Trump’s rapid recovery may possibly be explained by the fact he was taking HCQ regularly”

Here is a statement from Trump’s doctor, October 3, on the medications Trump had been taking at the time of his treatment for Covid. No mention anywhere of HCQ.

Alan in Kansas
Reply to  Nick Stokes
November 9, 2020 9:46 am

My guess is that Trump himself may have been scared off HCQ by all the negative press reports and backlash from the medical establishment. Yes, it would be helpful to know if Trump was on HCQ prophylaxis and got sick, or if he stopped the HCQ some time ago and then got sick. 

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
Reply to  Nick Stokes
November 9, 2020 11:19 am

Nick:

The precise chronology of what Trump took and when is not clear from this:

Following PCR-confirmation of the President’s diagnosis, as a precautionary measure he received a single 8 gram dose of Regeneron’s polyclonal antibody cocktail. He completed the infusion without incident. In addition to the polyclonal antibodies, the President has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and a daily aspirin.

The phrase “… has been taking …” could very well mean it was started after the PCR confirmation and continued, unlike the polyclonal antibody cocktail which was taken exactly once.

It does make pretty clear that Trump was not taking HQC as part of the treatment following the diagnosis, but the wording does not exclude the possibility Trump was taking HQC as a preventative measure prior to the diagnosis.

Which would be nice to know. It would also be nice to know whether he had also been taking Vitamin D all along and how much.

Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
November 9, 2020 1:47 pm

“It does make pretty clear that Trump was not taking HQC as part of the treatment following the diagnosis”
Yes. But it does say what he “has been taking” and lists aspirin and melatonin, for example. Not things they would have started up in response to the diagnosis. Nor would they have discontinued HCQ if he had been taking it as preventive.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
November 9, 2020 2:15 pm

I was under the impression that he was given a steroid as part of the treatment.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
November 9, 2020 4:40 pm

ABC News, not known for its support of Trump or his presidency, reported on May 19, that he had been taking HCQ, an “unproven drug he’s touted for COVID-19.

He said he asked the White House doctor if he could take the unproven treatment despite having no symptoms, adding he’s been taking a pill a day for about a week and a half.

The rest of the story is framed to imply that Trump is dangerously foolish.

Reply to  Gerald Machnee
November 9, 2020 5:16 pm

“I was under the impression that he was given a steroid”

Yes, that came later. But at no stage of his illness was he treated with HCQ.

J.C.
Reply to  Nick Stokes
November 10, 2020 7:01 am

Being an avid watcher of political TV and talk radio, I can’t remember who asked Trump if he was still taking HCQ but his answer was he took it for a couple of weeks and on his doctors advice discontinued. Without adding zinc it probably wouldn’t have prevented him from catching the China virus.

Dudley Horscroft
Reply to  J.C.
November 10, 2020 10:02 pm

“HCQ has a long half-life (about one month) and takes about half a year to achieve full elimination from the body;” From https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537086/

RockyRoad
Reply to  Nick Stokes
November 10, 2020 10:30 am

…except Trump said he was taking HCQ prior to getting the disease, Nick.

John Endicott
Reply to  Nick Stokes
November 13, 2020 8:26 am

Trump was only taking HCQ for a brief amount of time, months ago. Days after he announced he was taking it he said he only had a few more days to go for taking it..

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 9:19 am

Smart. Nice place, that area of Brasil

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 9:36 am

Gary,
You remarked, “(unknown is whether he continued to take it right up to contracting it)”
That is a pretty important piece of missing information because all along the push for HCQ was for its prophylactic effect, and ability to abort the infection if used early.

If Trump was using it all along, then it didn’t serve its prophylactic role. The physician who promptly cured him didn’t have faith in its ability to enact an early cure and relied on other things that demonstrably worked.

The interesting thing about COVID-19 is the ‘bigly’ number of drugs that supposedly have efficacy, ranging from malaria drugs, to sheep dip, and aspirin. Actually, a study I previously posted a link for showed that a placebo was more effective than HCQ. There is a good reason why ‘witch doctors’ are still turned to in many cultures. It is because people who think they will be cured often are, and snake oil salesmen continue to take money from desperate and gullible people.

TonyG
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
November 9, 2020 11:38 am

Yes, he stopped. Just search “trump stops taking hydroxychloroquine” – looks like about the end of May.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  TonyG
November 10, 2020 4:38 am

he may have developed the vision issues it gave me…took me 22days to get blurry vision halos around lights and cranial oedema. remember he had that glitch walking down a ramp?
reckon that might have been about then

Frank DeMaris
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 10:06 am

I’ve been drinking gin and tonic every day since the Wuhan flu started. Not that I really need it at my age for something with a 99% survival rate.

Reply to  Frank DeMaris
November 9, 2020 1:13 pm

Frank(hic)DeMaris
“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
Benjamin Franklin, 1736

I imagine several ounces a day is even better.

Derg
Reply to  Richard Greene
November 9, 2020 5:03 pm

“ I imagine several ounces a day is even better.”

Of Gin?

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Frank DeMaris
November 9, 2020 1:52 pm

Yeah, I was drinking tonic water, too! I ‘prescribed’ tonic water for one of my daughter’s family in UK after her husband and daughter contracted Cov2. She and her son didnt get Cov2 and happily the other two recovered okay. Another daughter and her husband also drank gin (for the first time) and tonic and were fine. Maybe the tonic wasn’t effective, but, like HCQ, it is essentially a no regrets option.

The egregious magnification of terrible HCQ side effects by political forces to scare people about this medication, and worse, having Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine publishing this stuff which they later had to retract is criminal. I’ve taken HCQ like hundreds of millions of people in Africa and South America for years at a time since 1965 and never knew of an incident of heart problems etc. among many, many acquaintances.

niceguy
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 5:52 pm

“… publishing this stuff which they later had to retract is criminal”

It was also ill advice in France: few people would have had a strong opinion on the claims of ineffectiveness of HCQ. But saying that it became a poison last year, after being available over the counter for decades… that was too much for anybody who isn’t a Macron and Academy of medicine apologist (we have a lot of these).

It shows that the propagandists are simply very dumb.

They had an obvious argument against HCQ, presenting it as potentially risky against a virus, yet didn’t used it. They would just explain that HCQ can reduce immunity so it isn’t always dangerous but in the first phase of the infection it might delay immune response when the response is essential. It would be wrong, but less obviously wrong.

Only Doctor Michel Cymes suggested that idea on TV. Yes, I watched a LOT of TV and it wasn’t pleasant.)

They couldn’t even think of it because they are ignorant. Even the experts. Even the epidemiologists. All of them. They have “knowledge” but it’s so disorganized, it’s like the Web without a search engine. Their “knowledge” is about as useful for making intelligent decisions as the fat of a super-obese is for survival in difficult condition. It’s knowledge fat.

My theory is that many people get “knowledge fat” in school, and then they accumulate even more: a mix of relevant, correct and irrelevant information and plainly wrong stuff accumulated without even the understanding of the basics and without any structure.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Frank DeMaris
November 10, 2020 3:30 am

I looked into that. Schweppes Tonic Water contains 15% HCQ (it`s the Tonic) but I figured the sugar would beworse for me.

L Pauling
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 1:47 pm

Trump+Golf+Sun = Vitamin D

2hotel9
November 9, 2020 6:39 am

The thousands upon thousands of people who use HQC in one form or another could have told everyone this, all without pissing away my tax dollars.

Rob
Reply to  2hotel9
November 9, 2020 7:01 am

Make that millions!

2hotel9
Reply to  Rob
November 9, 2020 7:11 am

I called my ENT specialist and got a prescrip for HQC 2 months ago, I have not exploded nor evaporated, the pain in my knees,ankles and hips is noticeably reduced without taking pain killers. I used some form of HQC many years ago for malaria, never had any problems. Seems it is time to start ripping these liespewers in media and politics out of their cozy offices and punish the f***k out of them.

Reply to  2hotel9
November 9, 2020 8:30 am

The HCQ debacle was fall out from applying hate as a weapon of mass destruction in the left’s civil war against freedom. While some 70 million hearts and minds were hollowed out by this weapon, the denigration of HCQ spilled the blood of 10’s of thousands of people who didn’t have to succumb to the virus.

2hotel9
Reply to  co2isnotevil
November 9, 2020 2:39 pm

Do you now see it is past time for Americans to drag these enemies of the human race into the streets and give them the rewards they have so justly earned?

ozspeaksup
Reply to  co2isnotevil
November 10, 2020 4:48 am

and f you overbook twats and goog and amazone….ALL banned info on it and other opinons and all trump stuff they could
mrz donated millions to the dems etc
all sorta coming together when you consider the slooow creep of it by all of them over the preceeding 6 or more months
far too convenient for them and stinks of an agenda/agreed actions/ie conspiring to divert redirect misinform Disinfo campaign

Ljh
November 9, 2020 6:41 am

Malawi has had a total of 250deaths when tens of thousand were predicted in an often undernourished population. It is an endemic area whose inhabitants reach for hydroxychloroquine, cheap and available without prescription at the onset of any fever, myalgia, headache…

Ljh
Reply to  Ljh
November 9, 2020 6:42 am

Endemic plasmodium falciparum malaria(omitted from above post)

MrGrimNasty
Reply to  Ljh
November 9, 2020 7:49 am

Trouble is most of the population is too young to be taken by covid, so ? remains.

November 9, 2020 6:41 am

There are many nations in the world with high malaria rates, where HCQ is taken regularly, in small doses, to prevent malaria. In early 2020 those nations, as a group, had a very low rate of COVID-19 infections. A short analysis was presented by Roy Spencer, Ph.D, on his climate science website, but there was never a follow up analysis later in 2020. It should be easy to take the 40 nations that had the highest malaria rates before 2020, which implies high HCQ use per capita, and see if they also had very low COVID019 infections, hospitalizations and deaths, as of October 2020.
The original report is here:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2020/03/some-covid-19-vs-malaria-numbers-countries-with-malaria-have-virtually-no-coronavirus-cases-reported/

DHR
Reply to  Richard Greene
November 9, 2020 7:35 am

Worldometer data for Africa shows a universally low incidence of cases and deaths among all African nations – all much lower than the incidence in Europe or the US. They must be doing something right.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  DHR
November 9, 2020 8:37 am

Which is interesting when compared to the UK which has or had higher death rate in the BAME (Black Asian and Minority Ethnic) community. Most of the MSM attribute this to their deprived (when compared with the majority community) background but this has never seemed reasonable to me. I have always thought it more likely that the major reason would be lack of Vitamin D. In the UK someone whose genetic make up needs high levels of sunshine to produce Vitamin D is going to struggle without supplements. In Africa levels of sunshine are high enough for normal levels of Vitamin D and coupled HCQ means that there’s a simple explanation for the high death rates in the UK.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
November 10, 2020 4:41 am

because dark skins block absorption of the amount of uv that kickstarts melanin/vit D in whiter skins i gather?
so they were vit D( and everything else probably) deficient

Dudley Horscroft
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
November 10, 2020 9:53 pm

The reverse is possible in Australia where the sunshine and UV results in our having the highest rate of Melanoma in the world. But Covid-19 has been virtually wiped out – almost all cases in Australia are from people returning to the country – they go straight into quarantine and are only let out after a fortnight if they have not developed it.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  DHR
November 9, 2020 8:40 am

But I thought that people of color were more inclined to contract the disease?

Or is the low incidence in Africa merely a result of poor reporting and poor record keeping?

Ian W
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 9, 2020 9:13 am

Jim as Ben said above it is the insufficiency in vitamin D. In UK all dark skinned and even some fair skinned people are significantly insufficient in Vitamin D.

The government could have given advice early on – take Vitamin D3, zinc, quercetin (another zinc ionophore often sold with zinc supplements) and selenium (a brazil nut a day) – The pandemic would not have happened. They are STILL not advising everyone to take these supplements. The pandemic would stop in a couple of weeks if they did. The obvious deduction from that is the government do NOT want the pandemic to stop.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Ian W
November 9, 2020 2:23 pm

I have sent three letters to the government and health minister since April. In one response they said too much Vitamin D can be bad!!!. Do you know how many units you need for it to be bad? Thousands.
I just sent another re D and HCQ.Curious what they will say this time. I included the following site: https://hcqmeta.com/
I believe TDS is rampant in Canada. I know there are many sufferers in my area.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 9, 2020 9:17 am

REJ
People of Color in mid-latitudes, not in the latitudes where they evolved the high melanin content in their skin. The presumption is that isolated populations evolved a melanin density optimal for their particular climate. Europeans moving south risk sunburn, Africans moving north risk low vitamin D levels.

Africans also have different demographics, with much lower average age. Also, the endemic diseases and poor sanitation results in their immune systems being challenged regularly. The high death rate among children means that surviving adults tend to be more resistant to disease.

Reply to  Richard Greene
November 9, 2020 8:29 am

Richard, this country by country study compares nations who use HCQ with those who didn’t.
comment image?w=1000

https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2020/09/06/positive-hcq-treatment-outcomes-in-88-international-studies/

Reply to  Ron Clutz
November 9, 2020 1:09 pm

RonClutz
Thanks for the help but that chart is not what I was talking about. I was not talking about all nations, or only nations that used HCQ, among other drugs, to fight COVID. I was talking about the 40 nations with the highest malaria rates before COVID struck in 2020.

People in those nations should tend to have higher per capita usage of HCQ, taken in regular small does to prevent malaria. The open question was whether taking regular small does of HCQ to prevent malaria was associated with low rates of COVID infections, hospitalizations and deaths. The number of infections would probably be more accurate, because hospitalizations and deaths are so closely linked to the percentage of older people in a nation.

Jude Richardson
November 9, 2020 6:43 am

I used to be prescribed Quinine for severe leg cramps. Then FDA took it off the market. My leg cramps continue with little relief.
Quinine is still used for the prevention of malaria. We have the means to stop COVID. But there is no money to be made in comparison to the profit of a new drug yet to be sanctioned. Meanwhile we die. Our Freedom taken away.

Rogers
Reply to  Jude Richardson
November 9, 2020 7:06 am

I also took Quinine for leg cramps. After it was pretty much taken off the market I was given HCQ. Can’t prescribe a cheap drug when a more expensive one is available.

BallBounces
Reply to  Rogers
November 9, 2020 8:30 am

Hyland’s Leg cramps tablets available on Amazon.ca. https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=leg+cramps&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

philincalifornia
Reply to  Jude Richardson
November 9, 2020 7:51 am

“a new drug yet to be sanctioned”

The FDA approved Remdesivir on October 22nd.

This post is for information only, relative to the quoted comment I have no comment on relative efficacies when compared with HCQ and other older, cheaper drugs.

Neo
Reply to  philincalifornia
November 9, 2020 9:39 am

But Remdesivir is only approved for hospital use.

Windsong
Reply to  Neo
November 9, 2020 10:01 am

And, on top of that, you have to be pretty sick to get it. It is not administered routinely.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  philincalifornia
November 9, 2020 2:26 pm

It is a very successful drug.

Oops! almost forgot – financially as it costs 100 times as much as HCQ.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Jude Richardson
November 9, 2020 9:25 am

Jude,
Like many others here, you fail to take into account that there are two competing, powerful corporate interests. While ‘Big Pharma’ might like to see expensive drugs, the health care insurance industry would like to see cheap drugs to minimize their costs. How about looking at the big picture instead of just jumping on the Band Wagon?

DonM
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
November 9, 2020 2:53 pm

The “health care insurance industry” is allowed a maximum profit … a percentage.

A percentage of a bigger number is bigger.
A percentage of a smaller number is smaller.

They are now like bookies … they take a cut … up to a point … so the bigger the volume the better for them. I would think that you are smart enough to know this, so I would also think that you know the point you are making is crap.

(The “health care insurance industry” is recording very high gains right now. If they don’t have to make some payouts then they are going to give rebates … and then there won’t be an excuse to raise the rates next year.)

Harry Davidson
Reply to  Jude Richardson
November 9, 2020 9:27 am

I have the same problem. Magnesium citrate 200mg once a day works for me. Without it I can’t go out on an evening bike ride without foot cramps, and night calf cramps are a certainty. None of that happens when I take it.

Steve Taylor
Reply to  Jude Richardson
November 9, 2020 10:16 am

My dad used to drink Tonic water, and got instant relief from cramping

Dodgy Geezer
November 9, 2020 6:51 am

What can you do when society decides that black is white – or that blue is grey, to use a less dangerous example?

If you do not go with the flow you will be marginalised, and punished if you do not conform. This is the same built-in instinct which operates during a cattle stampede. The herd may be running towards some cliffs, but if a steer in the middle decides to avoid these by stopping it wil just die earlier….

Bill Powers
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer
November 9, 2020 8:17 am

Good point Dodgy. I tend to think of these braindead public school educated and college brainwashed masses as more like the Children from the Pied Piper fable. They are happily skipping along following the music and one day soon the Piper is going to leave them in the deep dark cold forest to die from starvation and the elements.

2hotel9
Reply to  Bill Powers
November 9, 2020 2:33 pm

I am angry enough to happily accept $20.15 an hour to stand continuous guard around the edges of that deep dark cold forest and insure none of them escape.

TRM
November 9, 2020 6:53 am

And there are at least 2 other treatments that cure it as well. We are talking over 95% effective. If you doubt that statement please point out where the doctors promoting them wrong.

1) Ivermectin + Doxycycline + Zinc

Professor Thomas Borody developer of the triple therapy treatment for peptic ulcers in 1987.
“It’s easier than treating the flu now”. “You can actually eradicate it”. “We know it’s curable”

http://covexit.com/we-know-its-curable-its-easier-than-treating-the-flu-professor-thomas-borody/

2) Inhaled steroids like Budesonide

The interview with Dr. Richard Bartlett has been BANNED BY YOUTUBE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDSDdwN2Xcg&feature=emb_logo

But you can still see it here starting around the 4 minute mark:
https://banned.video/watch?id=5f06524a672706002f481047

Cheap and can be used on very sick people with serious existing health conditions.

So we have the FDA lowering the effectiveness requirement for vaccines to 30-50% and ignoring cures that are over 95% effective. Why?

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/child-health-topics/exposing-truth/fda-director-peter-marks-and-the-ever-shifting-covid-vaccine-narrative/

“In its guidance, FDA said it expected sponsors to demonstrate a vaccine is at least 50% effective in a placebo-controlled trial, with an adjusted lower bound of >30%.”

Of course it couldn’t be due to a blatant conflict of interest and money could it?

“It’s completely correct to say that NIAID will reap a profit on the Moderna/NIAID vaccine. There are 6 NIAID scientists who work for Dr. Fauci, each of whom would get $150,000/year indefinitely as their reward. So that’s $900,000 to his subordinates every year in perpetuity.” – Mary Holland, General Counsel, RFK Jr’s “Children’s Health Defense”

TonyG
Reply to  TRM
November 9, 2020 11:33 am

Given the protocol of no recommended early treatment (only treatments for severe cases) it almost looks like they WANT people to die. It’s sickening that even the medical profession has become so politicized that they oppose viable treatment options.

ACParker
Reply to  TRM
November 9, 2020 12:13 pm

Hit very hard (bodies in the streets) after Easter festivities, and panic, brought many Ecuadorians home from Europe, the city of Guayaquil established a treatment protocol of HCQ and azithromycin, and the antiparasitic, nitazoxanide. Nitazoxanide was prescribe for more advanced cases, as HCQ was seen as more effective as a prophylactic and in early stages of the disease. They saw morbidity and mortality rates fall dramatically after implementation of that protocol. I never saw any mention of Zinc or Vitamin D in the articles I read.

Old.George
November 9, 2020 6:54 am

So if the medical community had used HCQ *as Trump crowed about* it would have lowered the death rate?
The politicization of HCQ use because Trump said it has cost thousands of lives. THOUSANDS. More than 9/11. More than the number of soldiers lost in the Middle East.

Dan-O
Reply to  Old.George
November 9, 2020 7:21 am

+1
The drug HCQ is the only drug now or ever that has been politically controlled,
as far as I know.
In democratic controlled states it is impossible
to obtain even today. I first became aware of chloroquine and HCQ on this
board and passed that info to others around the country which was then used to
help several people. The Med-Cram 34 link which I first saw on this board was
used by many docs to do the triple therapy.

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2020/08/25/the_tragic_hydroxychloroquine_debate_and_why_dr_fauci_is_like_a_scientist_who_denied_smoking_causes_lung_cancer_575139.html

icisil
Reply to  Dan-O
November 9, 2020 7:50 am

FauXi is a life-long bureaucrat who apart from completing his residency has never practiced medicine. He torpedoed Bactrim for treating pneumocystis pneumonia, one of the AIDS diseases, just like he’s doing now with HCQ. Doctors like this one acted as a firewall against his evil and incompetence, just as doctor’s treating with HCQ and other reportedly successful treatments are doing today for covid.

Are they that out of touch with medicine. I graduated from medical school 32 years ago. We used many different drugs to treat HIV patients. When Fauci tried to stop us from using Bactrim on hiv pts for pneumocystis, every doc I know ignored him bc we saw it was working.

https://twitter.com/richardursomd/status/1322687939671920640

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Dan-O
November 9, 2020 9:41 am

Dan-O
You said, “HCQ is the only drug now or ever that has been politically controlled” Really? How about morphine, LSD, and cannabis? How about every drug that requires a prescription from a physician?

ScarletMacaw
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
November 9, 2020 7:01 pm

Add Sudafed to that list. My sinus headaches are another reason to hate the bureaucracy.

Curious George
Reply to  Old.George
November 9, 2020 7:26 am

Haven’t those lives been sacrificed for a good cause? 🙂

philincalifornia
Reply to  Curious George
November 9, 2020 7:58 am

Yes, and Joe should take note that this is a good way to reduce personal “carbon” emissions and lead by example.

Those black helicopters circling over your house – send them this way.

mkelly
November 9, 2020 6:56 am

The dislike of Trump caused the press to vilify anyone and anything positive toward HCQ. This probably led to people dying.

But very little money can be made on $1.00 per pill medication that is safe and effective.

Ian W
Reply to  mkelly
November 9, 2020 9:20 am

It helped to have Trump support it as ‘showing promise’ which is what he actually said. Not exactly ‘touting’. But the real reason is that zinc/zinc ionophore increases intracellular zinc and stops viral hijacking of the RNA transcription and blocks RNA virus replication – not just SARS-CoV-2 but influenza, polio and others. These are bread and butter income for the vaccine community. [See my other post above for references DOI: 10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176 ]

So as stated above thousands have died to allow the vaccination industry to continue

Reply to  mkelly
November 9, 2020 12:41 pm

Wholesale cost HCQ 60 200mg tablets, $8.00. :

2hotel9
Reply to  wsbriggs
November 9, 2020 2:45 pm

I prefer 5mg and 10mg, myself.

Steve CASE
November 9, 2020 6:57 am

I first found out about chloroquine from Dr, Roy Spencer’s Blog back in March. I think President Trump brought up the topic soon thereafter, and that night, or maybe the next day our wonderful objective mainstream media was pooh pooing it.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Steve CASE
November 9, 2020 10:21 am

More deaths, more headlines. Win-win for the MSM.

icisil
November 9, 2020 7:10 am

Over 1900 covid patients treated early with HCQ + zinc, age 1 – 90, 1 hospitalization, zero deaths. Possibly the most treated by any doctor in the US.

Dr. Brian Tyson’s First-Person Account of Treating COVID-19 with Hydroxychloroquine
https://theeconomicstandard.com/dr-brian-tysons-first-person-account-of-treating-covid-19-with-hydroxychloroquine/

icisil
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 7:33 am

Per the IFR, 9 deaths would be expected in the 70+ y/o group consisting of 100 patients, but there were zero deaths.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Elb_XgPWkAA4fbO?format=jpg

Jaye Bass
November 9, 2020 7:24 am

yea given the number of positive papers on HCQ with an estimated 60ish percent fatality reduction there is definitely blood on the hands of the public health community/media here in the US.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Jaye Bass
November 9, 2020 8:23 am

The problem is that sampling stats aren’t conclusive….if 1000 people have CoVid19 and 15% go to ICU and 15% of those die, that’s 23 deaths….but thats not a given, some hospitals will have 45 deaths and some will have 2….rendering the “lives saved” by HCQ or any other treatment very difficult to ascertain, and very easy to draw a mistaken conclusion. In any event, the often stated improvement of 25% by using HCQ from 23 deaths to 17 deaths is of the same order as sampling noise. No different than field hospital survival rates of wounded soldiers in a war zone….not a function of the meds….

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  DMacKenzie
November 9, 2020 2:33 pm

If it was the same as sampling noise the results would show it going both ways, but they are not. Therefore I am tired of the “noise”.
See this for less noise: https://hcqmeta.com/

David A
Reply to  DMacKenzie
November 9, 2020 10:34 pm

See Ron C comment Link above.
Nations that used HCQ early and throughout most of the pandemic, had 76 percent fewer fatalities per infected.

I think this study covered about 30 percent of the global population.

Roger Knights
Reply to  DMacKenzie
November 14, 2020 4:52 am

“MaxedOutMama” commented yesterday on the Seeking Alpha financial site:

“What convinced me that it [HCQ] does work is the O2 monitoring – used in the early days of when a person has reported the first O2 drop, you can see the O2 levels come right back up within hours of the first dose. That’s solid clinical evidence.”

Peta of Newark
November 9, 2020 7:33 am

Too many rats in the cage and they’re eating sh1t, nutrient-free food
It destroys minds with as much facility as bodies

and there’s nothing else to eat…

Leo
November 9, 2020 7:50 am

Yes Hydroxychloroquine is effective on COVID-19.

Lower mortality in HCQ-treated patients as compared to supportive care.

Compared to supportive care only, low-dose HCQ monotherapy was independently associated with lower mortality in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 diagnosed and treated early or later after symptom onset.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

Michel Lemaire
Reply to  Leo
November 9, 2020 10:13 am

You can see a lot more studies here:

https://c19study.com/

163 so far, many showing HCQ efficiency against CoViD19

Petit_Barde
November 9, 2020 7:58 am

HCQ used in Korea since day 1 :

http://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428

and mandatory in India for healthcare and other frontline workers :

“Based on the findings of the studies, the government has decided to administer the drug as a ‘prophylaxis’ or preventive therapy to asymptomatic healthcare workers working in non-Covid hospitals as well as non-Covid blocks of hospitals earmarked for Covid treatment.

Asymptomatic frontline workers, such as surveillance workers deployed in containment zones, as well as paramilitary and police personnel involved in Covid-related activities will be asked to pop HCQ pills.”

“With available evidence for its safety and beneficial effect as a prophylactic drug against SARS-CoV-2 during the earlier recommended 8 weeks period, the experts further recommended for its use beyond 8 weeks on weekly dosage with strict monitoring of clinical and ECG parameters, which would also ensure that the therapy is given under supervision,”

https://theprint.in/health/hcq-breakthrough-icmr-finds-its-effective-in-preventing-coronavirus-expands-its-use/427583/

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Petit_Barde
November 9, 2020 9:43 am

Really you need to consider that it might be just virtue signalling on the part of management, to show heath care workers that they are doing the best they can to protect workers. Doctors are doing the same with patients. A placebo to reduce stress levels….cheap too..
….and a positive attitude is often good for recovery rates.

Petit_Barde
Reply to  DMacKenzie
November 9, 2020 11:10 am

Most of those who prescribed HCQ did it despite all the political mob against HCQ, so I doubt they did it with virtue signalling in mind.

If someone did virtue signalling it was – for instance – the French government that banned the HCQ with no scientific basis at all while this drug has been over the counter for decades without any issue in France.

bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 8:17 am

1) The first “study” is a meta-analysis, not a double blind randomized trial. Additionally it’s been published as a pre-print, and has not been peer-reviewed.
..
2) The second “study” admits: “In the absence of clinical trial results, physicians must use what has been learned about the pathophysiology of SARS-CoV-2 infection in determining early outpatient treatment of the illness with the aim of preventing hospitalization or death” NO CLINICAL TRIALS.

WUWT should stop beating the dead HCQ horse.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 9:08 am

Only researchers and incompetent doctors think clinical trials are the only valid evidence.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 11:13 am

Bleach kills the virus in vitro. Guess you don’t need a clinical trial for it right? Get a hypodermic needle and try it.

Derg
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 5:13 pm

You first.

There is too much evidence that HCQ plus the zpack works when given early after diagnosis.

I laugh at the studies that only discuss pieces of the treatment like we gave HCQ to patients on ventilators or we just gave them HCQ…they never discuss the complete protocol and timing.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Derg
November 9, 2020 7:59 pm

Yeah actually, the big Raoult study didn’t include zinc for some inexplicable (to me) reason. Especially since they showed that (in thousands of patients), low zinc and vitamin D levels led to increased mortality.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Derg
November 9, 2020 8:24 pm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7315163/

Apologies, I misspoke since I didn’t read the paper in a while. It wasn’t low vitamin D levels, it was increased D-dimers although I think low vitamin D levels are implicated in other papers.

RockyRoad
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 11:34 am

60% of Americans “drink bleach” on a daily basis because the active ingredient in bleach, sodium hypochlorite, is used as the disinfectant in municipal water systems that protect people by chlorinating their water supply.

I bet you didn”t know that, did you?

philincalifornia
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 10:03 am

It’s obviously not a dead horse, based on actual data and there are billions of people in the world who can neither afford, nor have access to remdesivir. The dead horse being beaten is your own.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  philincalifornia
November 9, 2020 11:10 am

The horse is in fact dead, because HCQ does not work. The virus has spread all over the world, and has not been stopped in countries that use HCQ as in India (which is also the world largest manufacturer of HCQ).

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 1:39 pm

No one who knows what they’re talking about says HCQ stops the virus from spreading. Clinical evidence from all over the world suggests that it keeps patients from progressing to serious illness. That’s all that really matters. It’s cheap, it’s safe, and with clinical evidence like that there is no reason not to use it everywhere as early treatment. Better than anything the US medical establishment offers for early treatment, which is nothing.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 2:38 pm

244,000 dead in America. If HCQ worked the death toll would be much lower. Most doctors like to save their patients lives.

icisil
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 3:42 pm

The US medical establishment along with political hacks and bureaucrats discourage early treatment with HCQ, HCQ has been restricted by most State Governors. The NIH just issued policy guidance against early treatments. HCQ is not universally available, so your point doesn’t stand against reality.

https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/hcq/

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 5:40 pm

When your hero tested positive for the virus, and started to show symptoms, they did not give him HCQ. They flew him to Walter Reed on Marine One, and gave him the best known treatments available.

icisil
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 7:30 pm

The treatments he got are only available to hospital inpatients; they are not early outpatient treatments.

Devils_tower
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 8:04 pm

Hope this shows up in correct place for response….

When Trump showed up with an o2 drop he was in the later stages. At this point the antivirals did no good and were more for show. He was most likely around day 12 and had caught it on a earlier visit to a covid treatment center in Charlottsville.

If you want to understand the desease phases, download EVMS stuff. No going thru again.

In all likely hood it was the steroids, vit d, melatonin, and aspirin that kept him from the third phase

philincalifornia
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 8:07 pm

You forgot to show your math(s) bethan.

philincalifornia
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 8:31 pm

Devils_tower

He also got an experimental antibody treatment made by Regeneron. That had to help …. and was a bit risky too.

What a hero …. well at least he must be my hero, apparently because I read papers on HCQ. How do those people’s brains work and I thank my lucky stars that I didn’t get those genes and/or upbringing.

Devils_tower
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 6:13 pm

At my yearly checkup, my Dr of 25yrs told me it works but he could not prescribe so gave me name of Dr in another state. Decided to by from India pharmacy. Listening to him not you. The CDC should have there ass handed to them for not providing recomendation for early care at home that mean something.

philincalifornia
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 7:51 pm

bethan, clinical trials are not done by voices in a single persons head, i.e. yours. Show us ALL the studies and the accompanying mathematical treatment of such. I’m sure the voices in loydo’s head will help you (see below). Do you need help finding the back of an envelope and a pencil for starters? I bet you do. loydo (and griff) have shown that they surely do.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  philincalifornia
November 10, 2020 5:03 am

ethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 at 2:38 pm

244,000 dead in America. If HCQ worked the death toll would be much lower. Most doctors like to save their patients lives.

244k from 330 Million
whats the normal death toll?
and then earliest tretments prob killed as many as they sort of saved
Iatrogenic death count per yr USA is around? 100k or so a year or suchlike Ive read mentioned before

Petit_Barde
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 10:51 am

Believing that RCT is the only way to do science is pseudo-science.

Some insight on the subject, in French :
https://www.europeanscientist.com/fr/redactions-choice-fr/la-querelle-raoult-serie-a-la-recherche-de-la-raison-dans-la-controverse-sur-lhydroxychloroquine/

Reply to  Petit_Barde
November 9, 2020 1:33 pm

Well explained the problems, thanks for the link !

Loydo
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 12:28 pm

bethan456@gmail.com is right its fake news spread by an ignorant leader when people least needed it.
So much for your “science” Charles. This sort of rubbish is the opposite.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Loydo
November 9, 2020 2:37 pm

Coming from the biggest faker himself.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Loydo
November 9, 2020 3:44 pm

Dem run states had the highest death rates. How sinistral is that? This is definitely a research project begging to be done! What did Dem managers do differently under the crisis. I suppose its possible people run to Dem states to die and that may be the go to explanation that comes out of lackademia.

Me, I voted for liberals in the early days but they are nowhere to be found now. One suggestion for ordinary citizens to better survive the next pandemic is to ask your doctors who they voted for before choosing one.

Derg
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 9, 2020 5:14 pm

Now don’t bring logic to Lyodo….it upsets its world view.

Phil.
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 11, 2020 7:31 am

NY and NJ were among the first to be hit in a major way and had to learn how to deal with it on the fly and were able to get it under good control. Now it is some of the republican run states that are in trouble, TX, ND & SD for example, there are filled morgues in Texas now with refrigerated trucks in their parking lots.

2hotel9
Reply to  Phil.
November 12, 2020 7:04 am

You do understand that rural counties have limited morgue facilities as well as limited hospital capacity, right? Where I live we are close to Pittsburgh although still rural, our local hospitals have small ICU facilities so many go directly to AGH Northside, UPMC Mercy, Pittsburgh VA MC, MaGee Women’s, Presbyterian etc etc. Out in real flyover major hospitals are widely scattered. This situation is much more pronounced in areas of Texas, the Dakotas, Montana, Utah, Kansas, and these areas have very limited capacity for holding corpses for any extended period of time. Same happens after hurricanes along Gulf Coast and Eastern seaboard. Several of our regional “news” outlets have been contacting hospitals directly and are getting quite different answers than what national “journalists” are screeching constantly. We need a national moratorium on the 24/7 “news” industry and strict, harshly enforced standards for “journalists” who are fanning the flames of hysteria in America.

John Endicott
Reply to  Phil.
November 13, 2020 8:35 am

Phil. NY and NJ are currently experiencing a bad spike in COVID cases (and issuing new restrictions because of it). so much for “under good control”. Maybe they need to go back to their “good control” of sending more COVID cases to nursing homes again. That worked out so well the first time /sarc.

DonM
Reply to  Loydo
November 10, 2020 11:00 am

Something tells me that both Loydo & Bethan456 want people to e-mail to Bethan.

Something tells me that they are fishing for e-mails and identities from people that don’t agree with them.

Something tells me that they are not doing this for altruistic purposes.

Don’t e-mail the scumbags. Don’t encourage the scumbags.

2hotel9
Reply to  DonM
November 12, 2020 5:59 am

I nailed it as an identity theft scam from the first comment.

Roger Knights
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 14, 2020 4:59 am

Here’s what that second study says about randomized clinical trials: they infeasible:

“As in all areas of medicine, the large randomized, placebo-controlled, parallel group clinical trial in appropriate patients at risk with meaningful outcomes is the theoretical gold standard for recommending therapy. These standards are not sufficiently rapid or responsive to the COVID-19 pandemic.4 One could argue the results of definitive trials were needed at the outset of the pandemic, and certainly are needed now with more than 1 million cases and 500,000 deaths worldwide.5 Because COVID-19 is highly communicable, many ambulatory clinics do not care for patients in face-to-face visits, and these patients are commonly declined by pharmacies, laboratories, and imaging centers. On May 14, 2020, after about 1 million cases and 90,000 deaths in the United States had already occurred, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) announced it was launching an outpatient trial of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and azithromycin in the treatment ofCOVID-19.6 A month later, the agency announced it was closing the trial because of the lack of enrollment with only 20 of 2000 patients recruited.7 No safety concerns were associated with the trial. This effort serves as the best current working example of the lack of feasibility of outpatient trials for COVID-19. It is also a strong signal that future ambulatory trial results are not imminent or likely to report soon enough to have a significant public health impact on clinical outcomes.8”

Devils Tower
November 9, 2020 8:35 am

At my yearly checkup, my doctor said hcq worked but he could not prescribe. Long story….

In mar/apr even the east european pharmacys said they could not get.

In aug I procured plenty from India pharmacy with no prescription.

Todd Underiner
November 9, 2020 8:39 am

Would it be possible to include an option to share on Parler (not only for this story but for ALL of your great content?

T Gannett
November 9, 2020 9:22 am

A little hcq, a glass of sparkling water, a wedge of lime and a shot of Tanqueray (sp?) would make a hell of a good therapeutic G and T.

Windsong
November 9, 2020 9:32 am

I predict that soon after the Electoral College officially elects Presidents Biden/Harris that much of the research mentioned will magically be “discovered.” Dr. Fauci (an immunologist, not an epidemiologist or virologist) whose name the news media consistently lengthened to Fauci-the-country’s-leading-infectious-disease-expert (so we won’t forget), can be allowed to retire gracefully at age 80 next month. The Biden “plan” for tackling COVID-19 has in it the concept of fast-tracking a vaccine. You know, like the many that are in development now, and specifically the Pfizer vaccine much in the news today. It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

The suppression of the scientific research, reporting and simple discussion of COVID-19 by the likes of FB, YT, Twitter and the alphabet news outlets is indicative of what is coming to the climate discussion. Big Tech smothered serious people coherently discussing an important topic, and governments cheered them on. Lord help us once President Harris is in charge.

icisil
Reply to  Windsong
November 9, 2020 9:58 am

Lord help us from letting them steal this election. It’s far from over. For example, with just a 10,000 vote margin in GA, 132,000 ballots were just red-flagged as potentially invalid because they are CoE (change of address) ballots. In other words ballots sent to addresses where the addressee no longer lives, but were filled out and mailed back by someone.

ResourceGuy
November 9, 2020 10:03 am

Fortunately, the President did not mention Zn or vitamin D early on or those would be politicized and pulled from shelves and mocked.

DenisV
November 9, 2020 10:06 am

This site summarizes all COVID-19 related research, not just HCQ:

https://c19study.com/

With 98 peer reviewed studies showing a median 64% improvement with early treatment, HCQ is not to be sneezed at.

Mike Dubrasich
November 9, 2020 10:09 am

HCQ has been effectively banned, but there are some other available nutrient supplements that work in a similar fashion (ionophores). Specifically, epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) and quercetin. Here is what we take for general health and to prevent or decrease the effect of Covid-19:

n-acetylcysteine (NAC)
reduced glutathione (RG)
green tea extract (ECGC)
fresh fruits and vegtables, esp. apples and blueberries (quercetin)
Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) (2,500 IU)
multivitamin
mineral tablet (calcium, magnesium, zinc)

Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
November 9, 2020 1:38 pm

Calcium and Vitamine D3 together may be problematic.

icisil
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 9, 2020 3:12 pm

Doesn’t vitamin K2 take care of that?

Reply to  icisil
November 10, 2020 1:50 am

I read here in earlier threads people take up to 10.000 IE Vitamine D3, than, together with calcium, your kidneys may suffer of a calcification.

Mike Dubrasich
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 9, 2020 7:54 pm

They come in the same tablet. Citracal. Ca, Zn, Cu, Mg, Na, & D3. Bayer. Wippany, NJ. Millions of people take this stuff.

No problems here. I’m not pregnant.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 10, 2020 5:07 am

tell that to the companies making it
calcitriol is a huge seller for women in Aus and promoted BY gps here as well as rheumatologists

Tom in Florida
November 9, 2020 10:26 am

I am someone who has just been prescribed hydroxychloroquine (better known as Plaquenil) to combat my whole body inflammation due to chronic latent TB. The drug information warns not to use it with azithromycin as that could lead to heart beat irregularities. I did my research, spoke with my doctor and checked with my niece and older sister who have been on this for years and it all checks out as safe with only very rare side effects.
One long term side effect is retinal toxicity and anyone who is going to be on long term treatment needs to get a field vision base line test prior to starting the drug. Annual eye checks will be needed to see if there is any deviation from the base line test.
Recent information on how COVID 19 kills shows that it is blood clotting in the lungs not pneumonia that is the culprit. They discovered that those on blood thinners, those taking long term low dose aspirin and those taking anti-inflammatory meds did not get seriously ill. So it makes sense that hydroxychloroquine would be successful against COVID 19.

Dan-O
November 9, 2020 10:35 am

I was referring to drugs being used in the medical arena, not
street drugs. As I understand it HCQ in certain states is being prohibited
for use in treating covid but is allowed for say lupis or RA. The states
not allowing HCQ are all *exclusive* Democrat run state. There are docs
that have had legal action taken against their license over treating
patients with covid with HCQ. Nothing like that has been been
done to my knowledge. Cite any examples if you wish.

icisil
Reply to  Dan-O
November 9, 2020 11:34 am

If in the US, seeing a doctor in a nearby HCQ friendly state might be an option.

https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/hcq/

Devils_tower
Reply to  icisil
November 9, 2020 6:00 pm

Order from India online. No prescription takes about a week

Larry
Reply to  Devils_tower
November 11, 2020 1:00 pm

Website to order from?

ResourceGuy
November 9, 2020 10:55 am

At this rate the Brits and FDA will discover vitamin D. Then WHO will follow shortly after that, maybe.

https://www.lifeextension.com/news/vitamins/23620

bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 11:19 am

Rotter, you should be embarrassed for posting this article. It’s junk like this that is giving this site a bad name.

Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 1:30 pm

bethan4567 … YOU should be embarrassed for posting worthless comments where you make assertions, and back them up with … nothing. Typical leftist — all beliefs, and no real science … usually followed by the false claim that ‘we believe in science’.

So the article is “junk” … but YOU read it”? So this website has a “bad name” … but YOU come here ?
So, not only do your comments make no sense, but you read articles that you consider “junk”, at a website that you consider to have a “bad name”? You should have your head examined. I expect they will find nothing.

Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 4:49 pm

The right way to investigate HCQ, which the CDC should have done on March and April, 2020, is a large scale field study. The CDC failed to do that. Meaning they failed the American people. An HCQ field study, you probably don’t know, would be a massive CDC survey of doctors, asking them if they were prescribing HCQ, and if so, asking them if they felt the results were positive.

A survey of one doctor means little. 100 doctors is useful. But 1,000 or more doctors surveyed can result in a a reliable conclusion LONG BEFORE a controlled double blind test would be completed. With a pandemic, you need fast answers from a field survey. Nor a long wait for double blind trials, which someone would have to pay for … and since HCQ was generic, and cheap, none of the manufacturers would have financed such tests.

Your dumbest comment in this thread, so far:
“244,000 dead in America. If HCQ worked the death toll would be much lower. Most doctors like to save their patients lives”.

Okay Bethany, please explain EXACTLY how many Americans would be dead if HCQ “worked”.

I’m patiently waiting for your answer.

For you to claim 244,000 dead is proof that HCQ does not work, means that YOU know how many people would have died if NO American patients were prescribed HCQ.

Of course you don’t know that.

You are just blathering your personal speculation as if YOU saying it makes it a “fact”,

Many doctors did not prescribe HCQ, many states tried to ban it for COVID use, and no one claimed it was a magic bullet that prevents all COVID deaths.

You imply the death toll would be much lower if HCQ worked.

How much lower?

I’m patiently waiting for your answer.

Maybe the American death toll is ALREADY lower because of whatever HCQ was used?

So you are speculating that HCQ doesn’t work because the death toll, so far, is higher than YOU think it would have been if HCQ worked ?

You offer YOUR personal opinions and assertions as if they are facts.

In plain English, you are clueless.

Have a nice day;
RG

PS: I bet you think Donald Trump colluded with Russians too !

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Richard Greene
November 9, 2020 5:36 pm

Richard, the only possible way to prove that HCQ is effective is with a double blind clinical trial. Please provide us with a link to such a study.

Thank you in advance.

Reply to  Richard Greene
November 9, 2020 7:02 pm

Response to “Brilliant” Bethany’s (a legend in her own mind) 5:26 comment:

When people are dying rapidly from COVID — perhaps 1 of 100 who tested positive infected in March and April 2020 — you do a field survey of the many doctors around the world already using HCQ for their COVID patients. You ask doctors if their lupus patients who had been taking HCQ for lupus have had unusually low rates of COVID infections.

HCQ is a drug in use since the 1940s, generic, cheap, with few side effects. It is synthetic quinine — natural quinine was first used in the mid-1800s. Many doctors around the world had positive results using HCQ for their COVID patients. But I suppose YOU know more than thousands of doctors around the world? Where did you get YOUR medical degree, and where is YOUR medical practice located?

A pandemic means you don’t have six months to a year for a large scale randomized double blind test. And in a double blind test for COVID patients, would you choose subjects at random with no infections, to see if HCQ would help prevent the disease, lets say over the next six months to a year?

Or would you want COVID patients who recently tested positive, to see what happens to them with and without taking HCQ?

If patients had tested positive, and were in a double blind HCQ study, then half of them would be getting a sugar pill. No other medications that could help with the COVID infection would be allowed. That sounds cruel to me.

Life is a lot more complicated than you may believe. People frequently make judgements without all the information they need. Those judgements may be a matter of life and death. They don’t have six to 12 months for a double blind COVID medication test.

And what if there WAS a double blind test that found out that HCQ did not reduce COVID deaths … but they failed to test whether or not HCQ helped prevent people from getting the COVID infection in the first place? Another 6 to 12 months for that next double blind test?

You come here and spout platitudes about double blind clinical trials while completely ignoring the experiences of thousands of doctors around the world treating actual COVID patients with HCQ in Spring 2000. That makes you either heartless, or a fool.

Now tell us the Biden family is not corrupt — the Hunter Biden laptop was not his — blame the Russians — and then insist that Giuliani or Trump colluded with Russians to “smear” Joe Biden. Come on, show us your true leftist political biases.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Richard Greene
November 10, 2020 11:12 am

Here ya go Richard Greene, results published June 3, 2020: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

End result? HCQ doesn’t work.

2hotel9
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 12, 2020 6:01 am

Ahh, ain’t that cute, you just keep spewing lies. You’re a special kind of leftard.

Steve Keppel-Jones
Reply to  Richard Greene
November 12, 2020 6:56 am

bethan456@gmail.com wrote: “Here ya go Richard Greene, results published June 3, 2020: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

End result? HCQ doesn’t work”

Well, the purpose of HCQ is to facilitate the transport of zinc into the cells, as I’m sure you know. That study didn’t administer any supplemental zinc. So although its conclusion is technically correct, it is studying the wrong treatment. I would assume deliberately.

Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 1:43 pm

You should be ashamed and embarrassed to post comments like yours. That should be banned.

Curious George
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 2:24 pm

How does he dare to post something YOU, an extremely well informed (but not willing to share) person disagrees with?

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 9, 2020 2:42 pm

456, you give any place a bad name. Who did you vote for? Forget it, I know.

2hotel9
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 12, 2020 6:02 am

No, it is identity theft trolls like you that give a bad name to any place you post, which is why you keep posting.

November 9, 2020 1:46 pm

Has anyone experienced a case of Covid-19? In particular, the inability to get enough Oxygen into one’s system such that one does not literally gasp for air when doing something exerting, even mildly exerting?

I had these symptoms in the late August into September time frame. I’m just now getting my ‘lungs’ back where I’m not gasping for air during hard bike rides or physical exertion.

Reply to  _Jim
November 9, 2020 5:08 pm

Yes. I had shortness of breath on exertion along with a fever, and a persistent severe dry cough. My doctor prescribed prednisone, an inhaler, and cough medicine. I recovered at home after a few weeks. Shortness of breath is not pleasant at all. What a horrible way to die.

Reply to  David Harty
November 11, 2020 1:39 pm

I also had night sweats and a cough, and wheeze reminiscent of the sound when I had a case of pneumonia in the summer of 1995. Could hear bubbles popping on a complete, forced exhale!

I soldiered on though, riding my bicycle to and from the grocery store in 90 deg. F plus temps … Dallas Tx area and our summers are hot – did this help to rid me of the disease? I took no special regimen of pills or anti-biotics at this time, just kept the usual mixed diet which included milk.

n.n
November 9, 2020 2:02 pm

It works in vitro. It has a long-established low risk profile. The HCQ cocktail is both affordable and available. Demonstrated effectiveness in clinical trials and medical practices globally when administered as an early, out-patient treatment reducing disease progression by 80 to 90%.

That said, the run on hospitals was forced by social contagion spread by the press, media, social platforms, and politicians. Nearly half of the deaths can be traced to Planned Parent facilities. The majority of deaths could have been prevented through early treatment, and reducing spread by avoiding mandates for viral/bacterial collectors (e.g. “masks”) and lockdowns that exposed the most vulnerable members of our population on forward-looking basis. Most American jurisdictions reached peaked exponential spread before the mandates were imposed, then spiked with the restrictive mandates that are intuitive but not backed by clinical evidence. In fact, there is a controlled study that demonstrates masks are unproductive or counterproductive to prevent infection in controlled environments with trained personnel on a persistent basis. They are less effective to control sub-micron spread, whether aerosol, or droplet (evaporates, then either ingested or expelled). Transmission in hot, humid areas, in controlled indoor spaces, and areas with deficient sanitation, suggests that the primary transmission mode is fecal a la HIV.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  n.n
November 9, 2020 5:42 pm

Gasoline will kill the virus in vitro also.

Rainer Bensch
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 4:07 am

Have you tested HCN too?

n.n
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 9:32 am

HCQ acts in two modes: border guard to enable entry of Zn into the cell and inhibit infection by the SARS-CoV-2 virus. As a low risk, inexpensive treatment, a low dose is sufficient to mitigate disease progression, and complements the body’s defenses. This cocktail has been observed to reduced mortality by 80-90%.

DonM
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 11:03 am

Please provide link to double blind study for proof/evidence of your assertion.

Fran
November 9, 2020 2:10 pm

Physician’s observations were the basis of using blood letting for everything from blood loss from injuries (eg, sword and gunshot wounds) to typhoid for many centuries. Haemorrhage is a stimulus for cortisol release which makes a person feel better in the short term, so the doctors go positive feedback.

Another example of of the unreliability of physician ‘impressions’ is the DES (diethylstibestrol) disaster. It is a synthetic hormone with progestogenic effects, and the theory was that it might prevent pregnancy loss. It was shown in a double blind trial not to be effective, but obstetricians continued using it for another 17 years until 1971, saying ‘I was sure she was going to lose it, but my treatment worked and she didn’t.’ Clear evidence of CONFIRMATION BIAS.

The problem surfaced in when an excess of vaginal and cervical cancers turned up in young adult women who had been treated in utero with DES. Later DES treated women were found to have had male-biased play patterns as children and an excess of homosexuality that is thought to the fact that DES also has androgenic actions. These findings have been very important for human confirmation of the effects of prenatal hormone treatment observed in many animal species – ie, the effects of hormones on brain development.

Despite the problem of confirmation bias, I suspect there is a positive effect of hydoxychloroquine in the WuFlu. However, more data from clinicians who keep very careful records rather than global statements from individuals is necessary, and these data need to be evaluated independently.

ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 2:37 pm

it may be too late for vaccines or anything that stimulates the bodies defences. The virus has jumped to mink, mutated, then jumped in mutated form back to man, will the antibodies and T-cells attack this form of virus? Who knows, who is testing
Loose in denmark (back with humans) and WI
Two mink farms in Taylor County are under quarantine after animals in the facilities tested positive for ARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in humans.

Between the two farms, more than 5,400 mink have died, said Kevin Hoffman, the public information officer for the state Division of Animal Health.

The virus was confirmed at the first farm in early October when a dead mink tested positive for the disease. The farm was quarantined at that point, meaning no animals or animal parts could leave the premises. It’s believed the virus jumped from a human to the animals, Hoffman said, but an investigation into the transfer is still underway.

The outbreak at the second farm was found more recently, Hoffman said. It is not believed that the virus jumped from the first farm to the second.

ghalfrunt
Reply to  ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 3:52 pm

Wisconsin flu anybody?

Reply to  ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 4:12 pm

5400 dead! That’s more than Sweden. What was the death rate of the mink? Sounds like it is more than for seasonal flu.

Maybe they were they all over 80?

Pat Frank
Reply to  ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 4:25 pm

Yet one more reason to emphasize HCQ, Zn, and azithromycin/Quercetin/Rutin.

The mink corona virus probably reproduces like Cov-19, through the the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp).

That being true, the same HCQ/Zn/anti-viral protocol will work against mink corona as has worked against Cov-19.

In that event, the irony couldn’t be greater. The vociferously suppressed and inexpensive protocol will replace the touted expensive vaccine solution. Egg will be distributed to various faces in the WHO and the CDC. Not to say among the media greats.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 9, 2020 5:27 pm

“Yet one more reason to emphasize HCQ, Zn, and azithromycin/Quercetin/Rutin.”

Include Ivermectin in there, too. It is said to be very effective against the Wuhan virus by itself, and works well with HCQ in combination. You need one 12-milligram dose of Ivermectin as a one-time treatment, according to a doctor I heard today on the radio (Sean Hannity show).

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 10, 2020 8:24 am

How about this Frank? Leave the medicine to the MDs and we’ll leave the chemistry to you, OK?

Pat Frank
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 1:37 pm

How about this, bethan456: you wait until you know that you know what I know before you comment on my competencies.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 10, 2020 4:34 pm

LOL @ Pat Frank
..
according to a doctor I heard today on the radio (Sean Hannity show).
..
Please get your information from real doctors and not from the television.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 10, 2020 4:37 pm

If your knowledge is based on Hannity on radio/television, I think you are hilarious. Will you take advice from Rush Limbaugh on use of tobacco products?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 11, 2020 5:14 am

Bethan, I don’t need your advice.

If you can’t recognize good information when you see it, then that’s *your* problem, not mine.

Argument by insult, the standard approach of the Left, seems to be the way you operate. Any substance in there? In that brain of yours, I’m mean.

2hotel9
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 12, 2020 5:57 am

You get caught out in your lies and this is the best you got? How sad, and predictable.

Derg
Reply to  ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 5:16 pm

Did Ghalfrunt tell people to drink bleach?

Shame on you.

Reply to  Derg
November 9, 2020 8:24 pm

Dawg Derg:
Grapefruit said no such thing about bleach.
He writes intelligent comments.
Probably over your head.
Way over.
Try to drink less liquor before you post comments.

Derg
Reply to  Richard Greene
November 10, 2020 4:21 am

Richard Ghalfrunt is a liar. Ghalfrunt claimed Trump said people should drink bleach.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Derg
November 10, 2020 4:53 am

Yes, Ghalfrunt did make the claim that Trump was promoting drinking/injecting bleach as a method to treat the Wuhan virus.

Reply to  Derg
November 10, 2020 7:12 am

I did not see any Grapefruit comment on this thread concerning Trump and bleach.
Maybe I missed it. The truth is Trump did not use the word “bleach”. Does anyone ever listen to the transcript before shooting off their mouth? Trump asked a team of doctors about various ways to kill SARS2 outside the body from ultraviolet lights to disinfectants. He wondered (asked) whether it was possible to use those tools inside the body. They were logical questions, and stated in a way that showed an interest in knowing what medications or procedures were being tried for SARS2 . Trump sounded intelligent with his questions.

Anyone who claims Trump told people to drink bleach is a deliberate liar.
Unfortunately. deliberate lying about Trump is very common among leftists.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Derg
November 10, 2020 2:16 pm

“I did not see any Grapefruit comment on this thread concerning Trump and bleach.
Maybe I missed it.”

I wasn’t in this thread. He wrote it some time ago. Derg just likes to remind him of it.

Enginer01
November 9, 2020 3:40 pm

Some will remember that I have posted in support of HCQ on numerous occasions, and I am happy that common sense has prevailed. I have HCQ (and Ivermectin) in my home office.
Some may recall that I have repeatedly plead with you and the authorities to test the spread of SARS-CoV-2 via air concentration by increasing make-up aid in HVAC systems. My analysis shows that Brownian-motion sized aerosol droplets accumulating beyond a certain level can lead to infections of the ACE-2 cells in the throat. This easy to test. I said, 4 months ago, that I would enter the first restaurant that had a sign “We Use 100% make-up air.”
As I have notified you before, evidence is building that the primary mode of spreading of the SARS-CoV-2 virus is via airborne aerosols.

Each individual has the ability to combat virus attacks, based on a number of factors. For Covid-19 these include having adequate tissue zinc and Vitamin D3.

When the quantity of viral particles in an airspace and the individuals time in that space exceeds his/her Minimum Infective Dose, the virus may reproduce at a rate the immune system cannot overcome.

The solution to this is to increase ventilation, that is, bring in more fresh air to dilute the virus concentration. This is beginning to be seen clearly in the current virus outbreaks as the seasons change.

Particularly, in Europe, as people withdraw indoors, the pleasant weather tends to reduce the use of ventilation systems, either fans or A/C . Although a typical HVAC system has much too little fresh make-up air to be very efficient at diluting viruses in a pub or restaurant, it is fairly effective for small single-family flats or houses. Whole-house fans, popular in Europe, are very effective. Cooler fall weather means they will be turned off, and the airborne viral load will increase.
Thigs are even worse in the Winter. Since diluting with fresh air quickly increases heating costs, too much attention is paid to preventing air infiltration, and the airborne virus concentration soars even higher. These factors account for flue and other virus episodes much more than humidity and temperature alone.

I must finish by mentioning a regression analysis experiment that regresses number of viral flu cases against humidity. As I have mentioned before, the fit was weak, around 50%. But when absolute air moisture, in grains H2O per cubic foot was used, R^2 jumped to over 80%. There are reasons for this, but ventilation is more important.

PLEASE do something to spread this information. It is critical.

Sincerely worried,
(ENGINER01)
again, my last letter to Governor DeSantis’s office :

ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 4:36 pm

Vaccine concerns
“But what was worrying was it seemed to mutate in the mink, and the strain of virus they isolated from the mink was different from the one that had come from the human.

“Now that will happen, mutation happens all the time spontaneously, but the worrying thing here was that the new mutant would not be one that a vaccine would protect against.

“So in other words that it had changed so that there’s a risk that the vaccines being developed may not protect against that strain.

“And that’s why they got an alarming signal from this.

“214 people got infected actually from mink in Denmark”.

According to the World Health Organisation (WHO): “It is normal for viruses to mutate or change over time.

“WHO has been following genetic changes in the COVID-19 virus since the start of the pandemic through a dedicated COVID-19 virology working group.

“When a virus moves from humans to animal populations such as mink, and back to humans, it can acquire unique mutations.

Curious George
Reply to  ghalfrunt
November 9, 2020 5:53 pm

Didn’t the WHO find that the virus was not transferred person to person?

ghalfrunt
Reply to  Curious George
November 9, 2020 6:37 pm

No they did not

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Curious George
November 10, 2020 5:06 am

The World Health Organization said the Wuhan virus can spread from human to human on Jan. 21, 2020. President Trump stopped travel from China on Jan 31, 2020.

Jan. 21, 2020, is about three months after the Wuhan virus was discovered, and about a month or more after Taiwan notified the WHO that there was a highly infectious disease spreading rapidly in China.

A new, rapidly spreading virus should have been obvious to everyone involved long before Jan. 21, 2020. It appears to me that the late notification about the Wuhan virus was purely political. I believe WHO knew they had an infectious virus on their hands long before they notified the world.

I guess if Traitor Joe Biden gets awarded the presidency, he will give WHO back their $400 million Trump took away from them, plus a little extra. WHO and China will be very happey.

It will be worse than an Idiocracy, if Traitor Joe gets in Office. What’s the appropriate word to use? Disasterocracy?

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
November 9, 2020 5:31 pm

It is quite important for the vaccine producers that there be no effective treatment available at low cost. The US government rules about funding a vaccine mean that a low cost reasonably effective treatment will get funded, not a vaccine costing billions.

In March it was important to vilify HQC in order to rush Remdesivir through emergency permission – which was done in 4 weeks. It is about half as effective as HCQ and only when given early. Now it is the turn for vaccines – they need time and they have to be worth the vast additional cost. Lives have a $ value, that is a fact.

Some formula exists to rate the cost of the mass vaccination campaign measured against the losses of life it the HQC combination treatment isn’t totally effective. Then triggers will be pulled. Big Pharma would prefer the vaccination route. Is anyone surprised?

Nayyer Ali MD
November 9, 2020 5:59 pm

As an ICU doctor let me just say your citations are complete BS. First, you are using a study that has not been peer reviewed and published by a reputable journal. Second, even taken at face value, it is not an actual well designed RCT, but a meta-analysis of previous studies. Meta-analyses are hypothesis generating, not hypothesis proving. They depend a lot on what studies the authors decide to include vs reject. In addition, the p value was .025, while below the minimal threshold of .05, not compelling numbers. In the real world, most US patients received HCQ in March and April, but very few have since. Meanwhile, hospital mortality has come down sharply in the era when we abandoned HCQ. I stopped using it as it doesnt actually work.

icisil
Reply to  Nayyer Ali MD
November 10, 2020 5:08 am

You guys just don’t get it. Early treatment with HCQ is to keep people from having to see people like you, and it reportedly works very well for that. Lots of doctors as qualified as you testify to that. Tell us what experience you have treating outpatients early; that’s right, you don’t have any. Early treatment is the key, which the cabal you work for actively discourages and forbids.

Mortality started dropping sharply when the cover was blown off the early intubation scandal and hospitals realized they better change their death-dealing ways, i.e., not exacerbating, or worst case causing, the condition they were treating. Physician heal thyself before you start condemning what others are having success with, while you have none.

bethan456@gmail.com
Reply to  icisil
November 10, 2020 8:22 am

You don’t get it icisil. Listen to the doctor icisil….it doesn’t work. I’m sure the doctor has treated many more COVID patients than you have.

icisil
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 11:23 am

He treats patients that have progressed to serious illness because they didn’t receive early treatment. You need to listen to doctors that do have success with early treatments. See my link above about the MD who has treated over 1900 covid patients with no deaths and only one hospitalization.

Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 10, 2020 1:30 pm

re: “Listen to the doctor icisil….it doesn’t work.”

Yeah … “listen to him all the way to the morgue

We get it, you don’t. The idea is to SURVIVE and _ not_ become “a statistic.”

2hotel9
Reply to  bethan456@gmail.com
November 12, 2020 5:55 am

And yet another lie from you. Yawn. Get a new pony, huney, the one you are beating is long dead.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  icisil
November 11, 2020 5:31 am

“Tell us what experience you have treating outpatients early; that’s right, you don’t have any.”

I think that boils it down. We got no reply from the good doctor so we have to assume that icisil is correct that the doctor does not treat patients in the early stages of the Wuhan virus disease, so he really has no experience with treating patients in the early stages..

The whole point of using HCQ and other medications is to try to nip the Wuhan virus spread through the body, in the bud. The sooner a person is treated, the better. It prevents the virus from building up into huge numbers in the body and eliminates the virus from the body in about a week, give or take a few days (supposedly, the length of time depends on the amount of infection a person had when first treated).

If you don’t believe the anectdotal evidence of the numerous doctors who sing the praises of HCQ and other medications, then don’t take them, but don’t deny these medications to people who do want to take them, and who have their doctors permission to take them. The medications are not harmful to humans in 99 percent of cases, so there is no reason not to take them, if there are no alternatives.

Not treating the Wuhan virus early leaves a person at risk of very serious, possibly life-long illness, and death. The Wuhan virus does not affect certain people very much, but for others, it is deadly, and we don’t understand the reasons why just now, so to be on the safe side, we should treat people early with everything we have available.

The new vaccines make make this argument mute soon (Thanks President Trump) but it’s not mute now and if I get Wuhan, I’m treating it as fast as I can. I don’t like the thought of blood clots in all my vital organs.

n.n
Reply to  Nayyer Ali MD
November 10, 2020 9:40 am

Do you mean the Lancet peer-reviewed paper of a meta-analysis that claimed that a high dose of HCQ administered after the disease had progressed to cause systemic damage, does not work, but was later withdrawn? Or the observational studies globally, where mortality was reduced and full recovery occurred in 80 to 90% of patients?

RockyRoad
Reply to  n.n
November 10, 2020 10:38 am

So true– poorer countries, with a combined population of 2 billion, used HCQ in their fight against C-19 and saw a death rate per million population of only a *fifth* of what the richer countries, with a combined population of 600 million, experienced.

Reply to  Nayyer Ali MD
November 11, 2020 1:47 pm

re: ” Meanwhile, hospital mortality has come down sharply in the era when we abandoned HCQ.”

Shoveling a patient full of some drug (any drug) LATE in the game and expecting a positive result? Against a virus no less?

What are you thinking? Might was well try BLEACH …

niceguy
November 9, 2020 6:49 pm

Philippe Tcheng @philtcheng posted:

On peut faire la même avec @CNEWS

comment image

https://twitter.com/philtcheng/status/1325757122970267648

(He says French news chanel CNEWS is as awful, racist, xenophobic as Fox.)

But Philippe Tcheng is a nobody you will say?

He is not well known, but he was president of:

Le Leem est l’association professionnelle qui regroupe les entreprises du #médicament en France. #pharma

https://twitter.com/LeemFrance

A media relation head of French Pharma.

niceguy
Reply to  niceguy
November 9, 2020 8:09 pm

The image:

comment image

Gerald Machnee
November 9, 2020 8:40 pm

Biden says he will save the world.
He will appoint a board of 12 (first payoff already) to study the problem.

n.n
Reply to  Gerald Machnee
November 10, 2020 9:43 am

In the meantime, there is the Planned Parent choice, accountable for nearly half of recorded deaths in America, to reduce excess “burdens” and promote social progress.

acementhead
November 10, 2020 1:42 am

“‘All professions are conspiracies against the laity” *

And in the US the FDA is in on it too.

*Some Irish playwright.

ResourceGuy
November 10, 2020 12:24 pm

Your virtual nondoctor (according to AMA) will see you now. Sorry for the 30 nanosecond wait time. No payment is required.

Damon
November 10, 2020 4:21 pm

“Do you have pics of these non-mask wearing Biden supporters?”

The first thing Biden (and Harris) do when addressing the public is take off their masks.

n.n
Reply to  Damon
November 10, 2020 11:07 pm

Then they carefully dispose of their masks and wash their hands to mitigate the progress of spreading the viral/bacterial load that accumulates on the surfaces and filter layers. What happened to their goggles? The eyes are a window to contagion.

n.n
November 10, 2020 11:02 pm

Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study

There is accumulating evidence that the primary transmission mode is fecal transmission, and aerosol and droplet spread is limited to close, sustained contact with forced (i.e. coughing, sneezing) transmission in active cases. The former bypasses most masks, which create a false sense of safety (a placebo effect?). The latter evaporates and is either ingested or projected to surroundings. In the best case, in a controlled environment with trained individuals, masks have limited utility, and may be counterproductive as they are viral/bacterial collectors.

JohnA
November 15, 2020 3:00 pm

Ah yes, the use of data dredges to try to find statistical significance:

“All calculations were done in Excel, and results were considered to be statistically significant at a two-sided threshold of P=.05. Results–Five randomized controlled clinical trials enrolling 5,577 patients were included. HCQ was associated with a 24% reduction in COVID-19 infection, hospitalization or death, P=.025 (RR, 0.76 [95% CI, 0.59 to 0.97]).

If only there was some software, available free and open source, which could better run statistical tests? Perhaps one named after a letter of the alphabet?

And what were the selection criteria that included those five studies but excluded others included in a bigger study which showed no effect on coronavirus results for HQC but which were stopped because they cause increased deaths? Can we know what those were, because it sounds awfully like cherrypicking?

2hotel9
Reply to  JohnA
November 16, 2020 7:00 am

Yes, HCQ works in early treatment and prophylactic. If you don’t want to use then don’t, all the rest of us will decide for ourselves. Yea, I know, that is the part that pisses you off so much.

Old.George
Reply to  2hotel9
November 16, 2020 8:03 am

“all the rest of us will decide for ourselves”
In some cases you and your doctor might have a dialog.
You: I believe that HCQ works.
Doc: I use a different protocol and don’t know much about HCQ.
You: You know of the placebo effect? Even when the patient knows it is a placebo, it cures. I believe that the safe HCQ in reasonable dose given early would help me. Give me that which you consider a placebo and carry on with your favorite protocol. Unless, by chance, I might be harmed by the known short-term side effects of which I can find none.

2hotel9
Reply to  Old.George
November 16, 2020 8:44 am

Had very much that conversation with my ENT specialist. Several years ago he had wanted me to start using Plaquenil as a treatment for the effects of Sjogren’s Syndrome, reducing inflammation, and I turned it down because it has several adverse effects on eyes. Couple months ago I asked about HCQ in low dosage to help with inflammation in my knees and back pain and he wrote the ‘scrip, 5mg every other day. Added benefit? Upping vitamin D and zinc means colds and flu are far less likely in my future, including Chinese Disease.

The real question is why are so many politicians so bound and determined to stop people from using a proven, cheap pharmaceutical treatment that millions of people have used for decades. That answer is what people should actually be worried about.

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