Did ChiCom-19 Come From a Red Chinese Lab?

Guest “Cold Warrior-ing” by David Middleton

Those readers who either aren’t proficient in the English language and/or don’t remember the Cold War, may be unfamiliar with the acronym: ChiCom. It stands for Chinese Communist. In my never-ending effort to reject political correctness, I refer to everything related to the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19 as ChiCom-19.

ChiCom = Chinese Communist

Sergeant Muldoon : From Red China: Chicom K-50 sub-machine gun… Chinese communist! SKS Soviet-made semi-automatic carbine… Russian communist! Ammunition, Czechoslovakian-made… Czech communist! No sir, Mr. Beckworth! It doesn’t take a lead weight to fall on me or a hit from one of those weapons to recognize that what’s involved here is communist domination of the world!

The Green Berets, 1968

Yeah, I know The Green Berets was historically, geographically and technically flawed… But, what other movie features A-1 Skyraiders dropping napalm and an AC-47 “Puff the Magic Dragon” clearing a field? Granted, the SPAD’s dropped napalm at night and Spooky rained 7.62 mm hell on the VC/NVA in daylight, the opposite of how the aircraft were generally employed… But it was the perfect mix of Cold War jingoism and John Wayne… And it provided a perfect hairpin segue to the central question of this post:

Did ChiCom-19 come from a Red Chinese virology lab?

What a difference 53 days can make…

Cell Phones, Cancer, And Coronavirus: Tucker Carlson Spreads Conspiracy Theories

By Alex Berezow, PhD — February 20, 2020

The Fox News host says cell phones cause cancer and the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) might have escaped from a biological weapons lab. Both claims are ridiculous.

[…]

The Wuhan Coronavirus Is Not a Bioweapon

Tucker then one-upped himself. He did another segment in which Bill Gertz, a Washington Times national security correspondent, hints that the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) might be a biological weapon. “Is it human-caused, or laboratory-caused, or is it a natural phenomena?… Let’s get the debate going.”

Okay, let’s do that. The most likely explanation is natural phenomenon because Chinese markets allow potentially millions of humans to interact with potentially millions of live animals. That’s a recipe for disaster. SARS jumped from animals to humans in China in 2002 precisely for that reason.

Tucker then asks bluntly, “Is there any evidence as of tonight that this virus originated in a lab?”

The answer to that is “no,” but the guest said, “I don’t know.” He then mentioned that China’s only high-security biological lab is located in Wuhan. 

[…]

American Council on Science and Health
  • Tucker Carlson: “Is there any evidence as of tonight that this virus originated in a lab?”
  • Alex Berezow: “The answer to that is ‘no’…”

“The answer to that is was ‘no’…”

Best Evidence Yet That Coronavirus Came From Wuhan BSL-4 Lab

By Alex Berezow, PhD — April 13, 2020

No, the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19 is not a biological weapon. But that doesn’t mean the virus didn’t escape from a laboratory. A growing body of circumstantial evidence indicates that very well may be what happened.

When the novel coronavirus, now known as SARS-CoV-2, emerged from China, conspiracy theorists — including a prominent cable news host — were quick to point out that Wuhan is host to a “biological weapons” lab. Thus, according to the conspiracy, the virus was a leaked bioweapon.

There are two gigantic problems with that theory. First, there is no reason to believe that the Wuhan laboratory is in the business of producing biological weapons. The lab is a high-security facility, known as biosafety level 4 (BSL-4), similar to the ones we have at the CDC in Atlanta.

[…]

American Council on Science and Health

I have the greatest respect for Alex Berezow and I usually agree with him on science/health matters. The only area in which I generally disagree with him is climate change – even then, my disagreements are usually matters of scale, context and magnitude, not the underlying science.

On this particular issue, Dr. Berezow started out with a straw man, reversed course and then double downed on the straw man.

Tucker Carlson asked, “Is there any evidence as of tonight that this virus originated in a lab?” On February 20, 2020, Dr. Berezow said, “No.” On April 13, 2020, Dr, Berezow said, “Yes”, but there’s no evidence that it’s from a bio-weapons lab. Mr. Carlson never said it was. He and Bill Gertz discussed the possibility that it might be a bio-weapons lab. Well, it might be. I doubt that it is a bio-weapons lab… But I don’t know… And it doesn’t really matter.

The global economic destruction caused by the Kung Flu has reaffirmed that we can’t trust Communist China and that we should begin the process of unwinding our economic ties with them. Even if this virus was inadvertently released from a ChiCom virology lab, they willfully obstructed the world’s ability to respond to it. They should be held financially, and possibly criminally liable for all of the damages related to it. The first step should be to seize their US Treasury holdings as a down payment on the economic damage that Red China has caused.

China should be legally liable for the pandemic damage it has done

April 10, 2020

The costs of the pandemic keep piling up. Hundreds of millions of Americans are on lockdown, a record 16.8 million have filed unemployment claims, nearly 15,000 Americans have died so far and the death toll is growing exponentially by the day. Congress has passed three coronavirus relief bills totaling $2.3 trillion, and more might soon be in the works.

Somebody has to pay for this unprecedented damage. That somebody should be the government of China.

No one can blame Beijing for a viral outbreak beyond its control. But the Chinese communist regime should be blamed — and held legally liable — for intentionally lying to the world about the danger of the virus, and proactively impeding a global response that might have prevented a worldwide contagion.

We now know that the first case of covid-19 appeared in China’s Hubei province on Nov. 17. By mid-December, Chinese officials knew that the virus was capable of human-to-human transmission because doctors and nurses were getting sick. But instead of alerting the world, they tried to cover it up and punished doctors who tried to sound the alarm. On Jan. 14, the World Health Organization tweeted that “Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission.” On Jan. 15, the head of China’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention declared on state television that “the risk of human-to-human transmission is low.” These were lies, and Beijing knew it. More than 1,700 Chinese medical workers had been infected.

As China lied, it intentionally hampered US efforts to prepare for the virus’s arrival on our shores by refusing to share samples with us. US officials became so frustrated that they tried a back channel — asking the director of the biocontainment lab at the University of Texas, which had a research partnership with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, to see whether he could get samples.  Post reports that “At first, the lab in Wuhan agreed, but officials in Beijing intervened Jan. 24 and blocked any lab-to-lab transfer.” That intervention came one day after Beijing finally imposed a belated lockdown on Wuhan — which means even after Chinese officials finally publicly acknowledged they were battling a pandemic they were still obstructing the US response.

[…]

American Enterprise Institute

If ChiCom-19 was released from the Wuhan Institute of Virology or some other ChiCom laboratory, then Beijing can, and should be blamed “for a viral outbreak beyond its control”, because it started out in their control.

Day 28 of America Held Hostage by ChiCom-19

In local news… Fire Marshal Gump (Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins) is at it again…

Dallas County commissioners delay a vote on the pop-up hospital because it might not be needed after all
Whether Dallas County would use the hospital was the subject of a political squabble between County Judge Clay Jenkins and Gov. Greg Abbott.

Updated at 6:05 p.m.: This story has been revised to include comment from the military.

Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins was adamant last week that North Texas needed a pop-up hospital at the Dallas convention center in its fight against the coronavirus pandemic.

On Monday, however, Jenkins changed his tune as the county has yet to see an expected surge in cases, topping off at about 100 per day.

[…]

About half the city’s hospital beds were open Monday, according to a tweet from Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson. Forty percent of the city’s beds in intensive care units were also available.

[…]

A spokesman for the military said it will continue to work with Dallas County and the state to determine the best location for military medical personnel and supplies.

“Northern Command and U.S. Army North continually evaluate the best use of all allocated military assets to meet FEMA’s priorities as the response to COVID-19 evolves,” said Charles G. Calio in an email. “Military capabilities are inherently flexible, allowing us to tailor and scale our response to best meet the requirement.”

Dallas Morning News

From the April 10 Dallas County Health and Human Services 2019 Novel Coronavirus (COVID‐19) Summary:

ChiCom-19 hospitalizations appear to have peaked below influenza hospitalizations.

Dallas County hospital admissions: Influenza vs ChiCom-19

Although, ChiCom-19 ICU admissions appear to have peaked a little higher than influenza ICU admissions:

Dallas County ICU admissions: Influenza vs ChiCom-19

The numbers reported at noon yesterday, pushed the Mendoza Line crossing out to November 14, 2034…

Dallas CountyCHICOM-19
PopulationCasesDeaths
2,637,7721,788321.8%
% of population with0.0678%0.00121%
% wth, rounded0.1%0.00%
% without99.9322%99.9988%
% without, rounded99.9%100.00%
Menodoza Line (.200)14-Nov-20340.200

Time to end the hostage crisis! Otherwise, at some point, the liability for this would shift from Red China to the Fire Marshal Gumps of the world.

Somehow… This Kinks song seems appropriate:

Featured Image

The Economist cover (Taiwan News)

368 thoughts on “Did ChiCom-19 Come From a Red Chinese Lab?

  1. In the UK powerful Foreign Affairs Committee and it’s chairman Tom Tugendhat including some of senior Tory MPs accuse China of a corona virus ‘cover-up’ and demand an international investigation to find ‘patient zero’ .

    • And apparently Trump had just announced defunding the WHO. I wonder if others will follow suit…

      • …pending review, I believe.

        However, I have seen little evidence that would justify the $400 million the US gives the WHO each year!

        • Now what Bill Gates buy up shares in WHO to push his own vaccine program which was kicked out of Indian NAB for crippling tens of thousands with defective polio vaccinations and secretly slipping sterilisation drugs into the same “generous” charitable treatments as he did in Africa with typhoid jabs.

          Gates is a eugenicist and should be in jail for what he is doing. Doubtless all justified by “saving the planet”.

          • The more they say, “it’s a debunked conspiracy”, “there’s no evidence for that”, or “that’s a crazy idea”, the more it makes me think that the virus was definitely released from a lab.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU

            Besides, it’s a fact that SARS has been bioengineered to be exactly like Chicom-19 – live longer on surfaces and in water droplets. We did it, various labs in Europe did it, China did it, and others like Russia and Israel probably did it.

            If you want a conspiracy theory, it’s not that the virus accidently got out of the Wuhan lab because that actually seems likely, it’s that some nefarious actor released the virus on purpose in Wuhan in order to cascade the world into socialist hell and have it blamed on China.

          • Here were my top 4 choices for how this started, posted several days ago.

            Here are my top best guesses for what happened. Number One which just came to mind yesterday, an accident occurred in the Wuhan lab. A contaminated lab tech/s went for lunch to the wet market. That was the start of the virus spread at the market. When informed about this the Chinese Govt immediately took actions to suppress what happened. Saw the obvious solution of blaming the wet market for the release of the virus.

            Number two, a careless worker gets contaminated at work. The worker may have missed the mistake, or thought that it could be washed away. Goes to the wet market for lunch or dinner supplies. So the virus gets out, and no one is aware until the numbers infected become apparent.

            Number three, a dissident group within the Chinese military who were crazy enough to think that this would benefit China in the long run.

            Number four, the Chinese government itself decides this is the correct course of action for fighting Trump’s tariffs which had been choking China.

            So after all of that a new thought came to mind which I would have to rate as top choice. There was an accidental release in the lab caused by human error. It could even be that no one in the lab was aware of the contamination. If they were aware and tried to clean up, then they did not do a good job. Then at lunch time, or at the end of the day the infected worker/s head to the local lunch counter, or get take home for dinner. They infect the workers at the end market.

            Now as the sickness spreads and shows its face to where the government because aware of what happened, the government then decides that being that it was too late to bottle up the genie that they would then make use of the virus spread as an opportunity for China. China shut down all travel in China for 3 weeks while allowing many millions to leave China. This is the clue which strikes home to my mind. The question is how to interpret this as either China hiding info because they always hide info, or if they did that with intent of believing that China had a superior position, and would come out stronger as a result over other nations especially over the US.

          • Old Nobel prize recipients (sad because everybody forgot them?) signed a petition about the risk of radiological terrorism, which is practically non existent (and all about regulations anyway: lifting the prohibition against exposure to radiations would make the problem go way). Also, they made Obama wreck the HEU industry which we should defend and promote, against fear of *phobia: I’m not OK with Iran having an HEU industry, I want France to have one.

            But they never thought that transforming pathogens to make them more infectious was an issue?

      • The Australian PM had already berated WHO for the decision to support re-opening of the Wet Markets so WHO isn’t going to get much support from us.

        • As far as I can see, the WHO have been less than useless, probably exacerbating the original problem by downplaying it. From my experience in working for them, their main activity is bureaucracy and administration. They are not worth a tenth of what we pay them.

          While we’re at it, the entire UN can take a hike. That will go a little way (but not much) to help pay for our enforced economic pain.

          • These tentacles of UN need permanent amputation. UN was set up from the League of Nations to prevent conflict. That on the whole has been beneficial.

            It is now trying to become an unaccountable world govt. and has total immunity from prosecution anywhere in the world. That must stop now. Good move by Trump but needs a golfer’s “follow through”.

            Why did BoJo just give 200 million to this worthless body when he can not even get masks into his own hospitals to protect those to whom he says he owes his life ??

          • Just heard this morning that the WHO spent 200 million last year on first class air travel. That says it all. End the waste, the money is needed elsewhere.

  2. many people have mentioned symptoms matching the kungflu in late october early november (I personally know 3 of them) which is right after another set of economic sanctions from US went into effect.
    very odd.
    purposeful?
    its a possible vs probable issue.
    is it possible it was on purpose?
    yes.
    is it probable? this is where I have no answer.

    and since people report online disctionaries used for editing posts try to steer towards political correctnes heres a little ditty I thought of:

    All the dictionaries were KungFlu fighting;
    those Wuhan Virus were fast as lightning.
    Although the ChinaVirus is a little bit frightening;
    Its the book of vaccines that you’re writing.

    • The regular flu this season was really bad – much worse then a usual year. I was in China in October and there was no problem. I got the seasonal flu in Santa Barbara and coughed my guts out for 6 weeks.

      Not COVID-19.

      • A GP colleague here in the U.K. noted the same thing and suspects that it may have been the first wave infection of CoViD19, in which case we are into the second wave.
        I would not diagnose flu unless the following were present: temperature above 38, muscle and body aches, lethargy and feeling very unwell.
        I had the persistent cough and low grade fever but I’d also had the flu inoculation.

        • may have been the first wave infection of CoViD19

          What real reason is there for that suggestion ? If we add “may have been” we can say anything.

          With the average level of competence of GPs, I take anything they say with a large pinch of salt and try to double check it. GPs are pill-pushers for pharma an now seem to think speculative prescription of medication is a diagnostic tool !! No, I’m not joking or being sarcastic.

          • No, the value of “variable” 10 was already 11 since it was incremented before being de-referenced.

            Also variable names must begin with a letter of the alphabet or an underscore. 😉

            Turn in your developer’s license too 😉

          • I’m not a developer, just someone who programs for my own edification.

            And you still didn’t know the original value of the mal-formed variable “10”, so you can’t say it was 11 at any point. It could now be -234.

      • If covid19 was rampaging in the west in late 2019 why weren’t we seeing deaths in the nursing homes then? Get a grip folks.

          • Oh come on! if it was in the west in 2019 then why so few cases. Assume it arrived in mid jan 2020 then just look at the propagation rate. why did this not occur in2019?

          • I didn’t say I thought it was here in November. I was pointing out that, if it was here, it wasn’t in the nursing homes at that point. I don’t think it got here until late December to early January. But, I don’t know for sure. Until we know more about the incubation period and the percentage of asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases, we can’t place a tight time frame on it.

          • this is a list of who actions as I posted elsewhere.
            The first case of covid 19 in usa was 21st Jan
            on 12th Jan China releases genetic sequencing
            on 13th Jan Thailand had first case outside china.

            from who
            https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/events-as-they-happen
            WHO responding to a cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan
            4 January 2020
            WHO announced it would work across its 3 levels – country office, regional office and HQ – to track the situation and share details as they emerged.
            WHO issues its first guidance on the novel coronavirus
            10 January 2020
            Developed with reference to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, WHO issued a tool for countries to check their ability to detect and respond to a novel coronavirus.
            This information is to help with identifying main gaps, assessing risks and planning for additional investigations, response and control actions.
            China makes genome sequencing of novel coronavirus publicly available
            12 January 2020
            China shares the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, which will be very important for other countries as they develop specific diagnostic kits.
            First case of novel coronavirus outside of China confirmed
            13 January 2020
            Officials confirmed a case of the novel coronavirus in Thailand. It was not unexpected that cases of the novel coronavirus would emerge outside of China and reinforces why WHO calls for active monitoring and preparedness in other countries.
            WHO makes field visit to Wuhan, China

          • Chinese New Year travel was key to its rapid, wide dissemination. This year it fell on January 25. Recent immigrants from Wuhan flew home and back to places such as NYC and Milan before and after that date.

            First US case had beat the holiday rush to visit family, possibly to take advantage of lower fares, or because he couldn’t get off work later:

            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001191

            “On January 19, 2020, a 35-year-old man presented to an urgent care clinic in Snohomish County, Washington, with a 4-day history of cough and subjective fever. On checking into the clinic, the patient put on a mask in the waiting room. After waiting approximately 20 minutes, he was taken into an examination room and underwent evaluation by a provider. He disclosed that he had returned to Washington State on January 15 after traveling to visit family in Wuhan, China. The patient stated that he had seen a health alert from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) about the novel coronavirus outbreak in China and, because of his symptoms and recent travel, decided to see a health care provider.”

            Thank God he saw the alert. His seeking examination alerted at least West Coast health care providers and authorities to the threat. WA suffered tragedy in the Kirkland nursing home, but OR and CA took prompt action. OR indeed has overdone it, with the same draconian rules enforced in counties (most of them) with no deaths or even cases, as in the stricken Willamette Valley.

      • I would take that bet. It is much more likely you got:
        1) a seasonal flu, or a cold
        2) a respiratory issue due to London air problems,
        3) a different COV that came from china, with different characteristics. Very low prob, but still higher that your bet.

        If it was COV-19 there would have been a lot of people going to the hospital, which didn’t happen.
        Some things will fly under the radar. That is not one of them.

        • The odds would not favour you, as even if what my wife and I contracted wasn’t an odd form of influenza. Probability is that we might well have contracted the milder form of covid-19 in the interim.

          I’ve had a number of bouts of influenza, and this was nothing like it. There’s normally only one or two bouts of fever and this particular infection, whatever it was, was highly atypical. Having worked in primary healthcare at a clinical level, I’ve never come across its like before.

          On the flight home, our cabin had a number of people with a similar hacking dry cough to our own. All I know was what happened. All else, failing tests, is merely conjecture.

          • It was still in the lab in Wuhan, China in the first week of November, 2019. It will come out over the next few days. Two weeks later it is possible but highly unlikely. So it is not a fair bet.

    • I’ve heard those reports of early possible Covid-19 infections in the US. Has anybody tracked down those possibly infected and test them for antibodies?

      No Chicom Virus antibodies means no infection. Positive results cannot show when the infection started.

  3. I now live in the Dallas County area. I love the name of Fire Marshall Gump. I started my new job the day all this house attesting began.

    Hopefully we can vote this guy out office soon.

    • Dallas County has become solidly light blue because so many Republicans moved to the surrounding, dark red counties. The scary thing, is that I have found myself agreeing with John Wiley Price twice in the past week.

  4. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/asia/china-virus-wuhan-death.html
    By Amy Qin and Javier C. Hernández
    Published Jan. 10, 2020
    Updated Jan. 21, 2020

    阅读简体中文版閱讀繁體中文版

    HONG KONG — Chinese state media on Saturday reported the first known death from a new virus that has infected dozens of people in China and set off worries across Asia.
    The Xinhua news agency cited the health commission in the central Chinese city of Wuhan, where the illness first appeared, in reporting the death. The health commission said the patient, a 61-year-old man, died on Thursday night.
    Forty-one people have been found to have the new virus, a coronavirus, and seven patients are still in severe condition, the health commission said, according to the Xinhua report. Two patients have been discharged, it said.
    There is no evidence that the virus can be spread between humans, according to the commission. The initial cases were linked to workers at a market that sold live fish, birds and other animals. More than 700 people who had close contact with patients, including 419 medical workers, have been put under observation, the commission said, adding that no additional cases have been found.

      • Blame Deng Xiaoping who introduced the one-child policy to curb China’s rapidly growing population. China ended with too many old unproductive people taking up resources while it aims to become no.1 world’s economic power, hence a virus that mostly eliminates old and infirm. Has China antidote, and is the ‘chloroquine cure’ just another cover-up story? /sarc ?

        • Henry – The dates of Published Jan 10 and updated Jan 22. By that time it was well established that medical workers had been infected with the virus from patients they had seen. Taiwan reported to the WHO that they had indications of person-to-person transmission in Dec.
          This was a cover-up. A poorly run one, but what they lacked in foresight and intelligence they made up for in intimidation, missing people, and tenacious adherence to “the story” regardless of evidence disputing it.

          • I suspect the cover-up was intended not to hide the existence of the virus (it couldn’t be hidden for long), but to destroy evidence of its laboratory origins.

          • I suspect the cover-up was intended not to hide the existence of the virus (it couldn’t be hidden for long), but to destroy evidence of its laboratory origins.

            This is the most convincing evidence that Chinese govt. knew it was a laboratory leak. The severe repression of the doctors who first trying to notify the existence of a new flu outbreak means there was something they ALREADY knew about it that they were intent on suppressing knowledge of.

            There would be no reason to refute the existence of a new flu strain, let alone start arresting doctors and forcing them to sign gagging orders.

            When these doctors end up being linked to the same WIV, it gets only clearer.

            Also work at that lab where they repeatedly infected mice with bat coronavirus until they achieved species jump is FACTUALLY recorded evidence. We do not need speculation that this all MAY have happened naturally on a random market stall. How long after that did they get it to jump to human cells in vitro. After all they were not doing work in that lab because they were worried about the health of bats.

            When ever someone wheels out “conspiracy theory” as though it was a counter argument itself usually means that they do not have any factual counter argument to offer.

        • Have you been paying attention to the news, Pool? Any news organization will do. You just have to follow the shifting narratives to realize somebody is lying. Since much of the MSM was parroting ChiCom talking points, it’s not hard to deduce, it was, and still is, China that is and has been lying.

          • You are correct, somebody is lying. Biggest liar is our POTUS. “Anybody that needs a test gets a test.”

          • Anyone that hates Trump more than the communist Chinese that are responsible this pandemic that’s killed 100,000s really needs to step back an take a long hard look in the mirror. Henry.

          • As per Sheryl Atkisson in her recent book “The Smear,” just about anytime someone attempts to discredit a line of inquiry by labelling it “conspiracy theory,” you can bet there’s some fire under that smoke. The very phrase is a “tell.” Another “tell” is when suddenly every publication medium on earth starts using the exact same phrase or semantics simultaneously. “We’re all in this together” comes to mind. Learn to recognize the “smell” of manufactured and disseminated VIRAL propaganda. A constantly shifting group of global dot-orgs. churn out most of it, same as with CAGW, likely for the same purpose.

        • The lie is that there was no known human-to-human transference. Chicom doctors were already publishing findings that there was plenty of evidence for it. They were silenced, and their findings were removed from the net.

          Short memory, Mr. Pool?

      • Chi Com Starter Kit David: One Child policy slaughtering tens of millions of baby girls, stealing all the technology they can, harvesting organs, shutting down internet sites, exporting fentanyl, suppressed Tibetan Buddhists, Falun Gong, Spratly Islands, flouting international trade pacts, flouting international pacts on bioweapons (French were approached after SARS 2004-05… and built P4 bioweapons lab in Wuhan- Chinese were found to have been lying about their bioweapons research for 20 years), Belt and Road, Hong Kong, the Uighurs, no worker protections, no environmental protections, accounting for half the world’s coal consumption, a surveillance state that makes the entire country an open air prison…now the corona virus…if I need to go on, you haven’t been paying attention…they are worse than Russia, Iran and N Korea combined. (Oh yeah, and they eat dogs and cats…)

      • and now the media talking point…..”China’s lack of transparency”

        bullcrap….trying to sugar coat China’s flat out lying

        China flat out lied…and they can’t even say it

        Can you believe our own citizens, politicians, and news media is doing that?

      • Mr Middleton, are you suggesting that the US doesn’t lie?

        Should the world have turned its back on the USA after…oh wait, sorry, so many lies, false flags, military & diplomatic misadventures on false premises, and such countless prevarications I can’t even begin a meaningful list here lest CTM blocks the post for sheer length.

        The point is this: it really hasn’t taken much to tease out the flag-waving atavism in a number of supposedly “wise men of science” here on WUWT, with you and the Laird leading from the front all cherry-faced; cheeks bulging and lips pressed firmly into your revisionist cavalry bugles.

        Lest you think my criticism … or rather disappointment … stems from some progressive outrage to do with “racism” or “name calling”, let me restate that I have no special affinity or allegiance towards China, Russia or anywhere else for that matter. After all there are no more “governments”to speak of, only elite enclaves with little real connection to the ants below. I’ve just become more skilled at spotting dyed-in-the-wool expediency – and hypocrisy – as my time on this earth unfolded.

        Observing you and Monckton’s righteous, puerile and spittle-flecked flailing – stapled to hastily selected, grossly incomplete “data” – is made all the more entertaining by the existence of reports such at this: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick-biohazard.html. Which makes it as clear as day Sir: the breakout of any organism in this interconnected age of hyper-specialization and scale, is a statistically probable non-linearity. I’ll clarify further: even if the virus DID originate in China (no one “knows” that yet…except you and Monckton) it’s irrelevant because, and you should know this as a Man of Science, it could easily have started and/or propagated elsewhere; the slope was avalanche ready.

        Anyway, this is not to say I won’t (still) avidly read your work in future. I do respect much of your work. I guess I’ve just grown allergic to flag-waving for it’s own sake. Perilous times Mr Middleton, and jingoism has little place when the world is this close to a serious confrontation – even if it is second nature across the Atlantic. It’s rather ironic that the America you promote and seek to defend probably no longer exists.

        • In reply to: …are you suggesting that the US doesn’t lie?

          Do you have the understanding of a Child? Do you know anything about the thing that runs China and how our government works?

          This about the deadly/dangerous uncontrolled ‘thing’ that runs China. Not the Chinese people. …. this has zero to do about ‘racism’.

          The thing that runs China has a nice friendly face, except if you say or do anything that the thing does not want. There is no choice.

          And there is no protection if the thing starts to go in an evil direction.

          The US/President/CDC/CNN/FOX/Congress/PBS/Breitbart and so on would never lie about whether a virus is or is not deadly. We have checks and balances in our system.

          The US is all of us. We are more than our government.

          We have laws that make it impossible for a President to develop and use a deadly virus. And we have a free press and congress to provide additional levels of protection.

          In our system people are important. In the US, we have checks and balances to stop our country from building and using evil things.

          When a country becomes too big and too powerful and there are no checks and balances. There starts to be deadly infighting. And the country can do evil things.

          The thing in China has killed and tortured their own people, in the name of efficiency. We know that. China has illegally militarized coral reefs to take over the ‘China’ Southern sea.

          The below is just a short list of the ‘lies’ which the Chinese thing pushed out.

          Why did the thing in China lie? This is a deadly virus.

          China said this covid virus could only spread from animal to human contact.

          https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/22/who-covers-for-china-amid-virus-outbreak-not-contagious-among-humans

          China stopped all China internal flights from and to the affected province and then lobbied the/forced the WHO to continue to allow fights from all countries and to all countries the affected province…

          https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/03/18/chinese-media-wuhan-coronavirus-the-u-s-and-europes-new-chernobyl/

          China waited until January 12 to provide the US with a map of the covid virus.

      • True but, we need to work back toward the time when China’s most valuable export was rubber doggie doodo. And then find another supplier for that.

        • Ridiculous. China could shut down the entire US Pharmacy industry overnight. And virtually every other key industry. They hold all the cards. So yeah. You show ’em!

          • A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. Or, you can sit around making snarky comments while they eat your lunch for you.

          • Our “key industry” should not be exclusively in foreign hands for that very reason. S0, all the more reason to get away from our dependence on China, so that they won’t be able to so much as threaten to do so going forward.

          • All the cards?
            You may want to re-think that.
            It is easy to overestimate or underestimate, if you are not in the estimation business.

            Boycotting is not a strategy, it is a temper tantrum. It is better to work towards an attainable goal, on a specific timescale. I would say identify key industries and provide incentives to produce domestically, and disincentives to import. Then modify as needed to achieve the goal.

          • It will take years to replace the industries that the US Predator Class sent to China. You’re a fool to think it can be done overnight. So any abrupt move will leave the US high and dry. And while you’re working on rebuilding 20th century production, the Chinese are surging ahead with 21st century innovations.

          • You mean stealing the innovations & IP of others.

            And yes, it will take some time to accomplish “replacing industries”, but not nearly as long as you seem to think. After all look how long it took Ford and GM to switch from building cars to building medical equipment – mere weeks. It’s a lot easier to start manufacturing a known item than it is to “innovate” something completely new. (it’s also not an B&W all now or not at all situation. Like the oil industry, we’d likely move in desired direction slowly, over time, while continuing to reduce the reliance on imports on a diminishing basis as time goes on until we get ever closer to the goal of independence).

            And China does not hold “all the cards”, contrary to what you wrongly believe.

            In a trade war the buyer has a lot of leverage. With few exceptions, buyers can more easily find other sources to buy from than sellers will have finding replacement buyers (particularly when it’s their largest buyer they need to replace). The US is China’s largest customer. If the US completely stopped buying from China, it would hurt China every bit as much if not greatly more so than it would the US (As I said, the buyer can go elsewhere, much of what we get from China we can easily get from elsewhere, it’d be more expensive, which is why we haven’t been doing so, but it can be done relatively easy and what we can’t source from elsewhere we could start making ourselves, not right away, and not as cheaply, but also not in too long a time either. Finding a buyer for *all* the stuff we use to buy from them, on the other hand, not anywhere near as easy to accomplish).

            “A world wide boycott” of China even more so (not that either scenario is likely to happen for a myriad of reasons).

    • That is an interesting strategy to get the ‘thing’s’ attention.

      The ‘thing’ that controls China, is about money and control.

      Absolute, scary control. In China the entire population uses face recognition technology for all purchases. China tracks the faces and what the faces do.

      China blocks what the faces can see on the internet. China makes faces disappear for any criticism of the thing that runs China ….

  5. Thanks for clarifying “ChiCom”.

    This whole episode has given a new meaning to “pandemic”, … by re-designating what the “pan” part of that word means — “panic”.

    “Pandemic”, thus, in this case, is a shortened form of “Panicdemic”.

    That’s as constructive a comment as I can muster at this time. I need to go touch my face some more now.

  6. March 30, 2020 by comprehensivecommunism
    COVID-19 and China’s reactions in the early days
    In December 2019, an outbreak of apparently viral pneumonia of unknown etiology emerged in the city of Wuhan, in the Chinese province of Hubei.
    On December 31, 2019, The World Health Organization said that Chinese health officials in Wuhan revealed a “cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause.”
    On January 9, 2020, the Chinese health authorities and the World Health Organization (WHO) announced the discovery of a novel coronavirus, known as 2019-nCoV, which was confirmed as the agent responsible for the pneumonia cases. On January 10, 2020, the first death and 41 clinically confirmed infections caused by the coronavirus were reported.
    Over the weekend of January 11-12, the Chinese authorities shared the full sequence of the coronavirus genome, as detected in samples taken from the first patients.
    On January 24, 2020, the central government of China imposed a lockdown in Wuhan and other cities in Hubei province in an effort to quarantine the centre of an outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Many cities, districts, and counties across mainland China implemented similar measures in the days following, including Wenzhou, Hangzhou, Fuzhou, Harbin, and the whole of Jiangxi Province.
    On January 30, 2020, researchers at the Institut Pasteur in France obtained and shared the full genome sequence of the virus. It took them just 3 days, but by their own admission the process may take up to 10 days.
    https://comprehensivecommunism.wordpress.com/2020/03/30/covid-19-and-chinas-reactions-in-the-early-days/

    • On the 5th of January Chinese scientists submitted the genome to the NCBI which is a subdivision of the NIH. It was first published on the 12th of January and several updates were made till January 18, when updates stopped. Here is the NCBI link:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN908947.1

      There have been claims by many people that this was a bioweapon based upon something called “gain of function.” But no one has been able to prove any gain of function whatsoever. If the virus was man made then presumably it would have had some kind of “gain of function” to enhance its ability to infect people. The experts are clear that it could have been much worse. It could have taken a shorter time for an infected person to infect someone else. Infected people could have been contagious for longer. Many more people could have been critically ill. Many more infected people could have died. It is more contagious than SARS 1, but not nearly as deadly. It is more contagious than MERS which was far deadlier. This was a virus that virologists feared if one became much more contagious than SARS 1 or MERS. But it could have been far worse. So no experts are saying this was a man made “gain of function.” It is what the experts were expecting at some point in the future.

      The article is a crock.

      • The US government was so worried about the danger posed by gain of function research at UNC and Wuhan lab by the Bat Lady, Shi Zhengli, and her American colleagues, such as virologist Ralph Baric, that in 2014 federal funding for the risky experimentation was pulled.

        Insanely, they were repeatedly infecting ferrets, whose lungs model humans’, with bat CVs related to SARS. They were getting close to gaining the function of easily breaking into human cells.

        After losing US support, Shi returned to Wuhan and continued her work on creating what could only be an offensive bioweapon, rather than investigation of biodefense.

        You could look it up, but here, I’ll help you:

        https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/11/moratorium-risky-virology-studies-leaves-work-14-institutions-limbo

        • That is obviously one interpretation and a nefarious one.

          The other interpretation, which is quite benign or even positive, was that these researchers knew, like so many other virologists, that it was only a matter of time before there was a natural coronavirus epidemic which was much more contagious than SARS or MERS and would kill far more people than either one of them had. The ability to quickly make vaccines and treatments for an emerging virus like that, is crucial, and it is beneficial to mankind to have a headstart.

          The only way to figure out how to make vaccines and other treatments is to make viruses in the lab that might be similar to a contagious natural one and begin to test what vaccines and treatments might work on them. If they and others had not done that, we might be many more years down the road to having a vaccine or treatments. Since researchers like them did what they did, we are much closer to rolling out a vaccine in the near future. And Baric’s study was allowed to continue and finish. He was not shut down.

          This kind of work is controversial to be sure and that is why it was shut down. But you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

          As I said, there are two interpretations of the intentions of these scientists. At this point there is no evidence that this virus had a gain of function and without it there is no proof that these scientists had the nefarious intentions that the author of this article claims.

          And one other thing this virus is proving. Bioweapons like this will not really work. Once in the public domain you lose complete control over them. If this was China’s bioweapon it backfired on China. If it was ours it backfired on us. Now that we know that bioweapons of this kind do not work, perhaps research like this in the future will not be as controversial.

          • If the bat lady did return to Wuhan then there is no reason not to suspect the Communists in China from wanting to do nefarious things with her research – even if the bat lady didn’t want to join in – even if they let the bat lady continue to do benign research.

            I have two words for anyone who wastes even a moment hesitating to distrust the loathsome Communists tyrannizing China: Falun Gong.

    • “On January 30, 2020, researchers at the Institut Pasteur in France obtained and shared the full genome sequence of the virus.”

      On January 31, 2020, Trump imposed a travel ban on China. The day after the outside world gets a look at the Wuhan virus for the first time, Trump imposes a travel ban. The Democrats want to claim he was late in taking action. While Trump is taking action, the Democrats are focused on impeachment and on casting scorn on Trump’s China travel ban saying it was an overreaction and a sign of Trump’s racism.

      Let’s vote these fool radical Democrats out of office come November 3. That would be *such* a good thing for the nation and the world. We could put our house back in order.

  7. …It’s the the geopolitical timing, US election year and an unresolved trade war, and the fact that the virus appears to be most efficient/damaging in the countries not using the BCG vaccine – namely the US.
    If it’s a lab virus – it’s war.
    If I was the chinese government not about to start a war – I would really really make an effort to dispute the allegations – prove them wrong.
    But do they?

    • It’s war only if the virus was deliberately unleashed by the ChiCom government. Incompetence and carelessness is not an act of war.

      However, we’ve been in a Cold War with China for the last 3 decades. It’s time we woke up to that,

      • Is it just a coincidence that the ChiCom regime and the US signed a trade pact on January 15, which included a clause insisted upon by the communists that the deal would be voided by an act of God, such as a pandemic?

        Red China has not so secretly been at war with the US for at least over a decade. The CCP didn’t make a formal declaration, but its internal memos, military journal articles and propaganda make it clear. Trump’s playing hardball on trade moved up the conflict schedule.

        The regime has covered up both the origin of the ChiCom virus and whether it was released accidentally or intentionally. Can’t be proved beydond a shadow of a doubt of course, but there is good circumstantial evidence for the latter, as an economic bioweapon against the democracies.

        Not just the trade pact timing, but the Hong Kong revolution and election in Taiwan accelerated plans to attack sooner rather than later.

        USN carrier Roosevelt docked in Da Nang in order to send a message to the Beijing dictatorship over its illegal actions in the South China Sea. Sadly, that decision has led to the death of one older sailor and sickening of hundreds of healthier younger crew. The skipper went ahead and docked, with shore leave for some, and taking on stores, because at the time the virus was said to be limited to the northern part of Vietnam. Maybe it had already made its way to the central region, or ChiCom agents made sure that crew members and supplies were infected.

  8. ChiCom-19?

    Red-baiting still? I thought that was a 60s thing, or is it just garden variety xenophobia we’re dealing wiith here? Fear does strange things to some people.

    • Appeasement does stranger things.

      Also, spoiler, appeasement is a short term solution for when one does not currently own a big stick. At any other time if is a fancy way of saying “please take everything I own just don’t hurt me” every day for the rest of your life.

      Bullies only respect safecspaces if they know they can’t get in.

      You want my take? China is not communist. They are fascist. They are at best your neighbour, not your friend. They screwed up royally in allowing Wuhan Virus to infect their own people and then decided their best scenario was to allow, even encourage, it to spread as an economic warfare attack on the crest of the world.

      China is your neighbour.

      • China has the power of capitalism without the rule of law and checks and balance.

        I totally agree. The issue is not Communism vs Capitalism.

        The thing that runs China was no limits and it controls what people see and hear in China.

        China cut of the Hubei province from the rest of China on Jan. 23 and still allowed flights in and out of the Hubei from the rest of the world.

        This thing stinks.

        “Niall Ferguson’s latest column (paywall) notes that on Jan. 23 the Chinese cut off Hubei province from the rest of China — but they didn’t cut it off from the rest of the world. Direct flights out continued. Trump’s travel restrictions kicked in only a week”

        later.ttps://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/04/09/Coronavirus-Critics-ask-why-China-allowed-flights-out-of-Hubei-during-outbreak

    • I don’t detect any fear, just a resignation to reality that the experiment of bringing China into the WTO to civilize the country has failed, they have instead used the wealth generated to try and impose their viewpoint on the rest of the world.
      It’s our own fault if we let them.

      Anyone who defends that government at any time reveals themselves

    • Lloydo
      Yes racism is back.
      The Chinese are the new “yellow peril”.
      Russians and Iranians are also eternal racial enemies of the American master race.
      Anything with dark skin is still a holy cow however – we need some currency for moral licensing.
      Welcome to post normal.

      • “the American master race”

        I think it would be useful to point out that the American master race is made up of members of all races, from every nation and place on Earth. The American master race is the human race.

    • god works in strange ways…..it didn’t start in Niger

      we would all be calling it the niger virus

      • Baiting? I doubt Chicom are taking much interest Mr. Middleton’s opinions. Having a bigoted rant is generally non productive and distracts from what would otherwise have been an important discussion.

        China has some serious questions to answer and an objective look at what indications there are of this being a lab leak would be a very good idea.

        That would have worked a lot better without the frankly juvenile jingoism.

        The article was generally good in bringing up the subject, could have done without the silliness.

  9. On January 24, 2020, the French Ministry of Health confirmed the first three cases of patients affected by the Wuhan coronavirus. On January 29, 2020, the Institut Pasteur, which is responsible for monitoring respiratory viruses in France, sequenced the whole genome of the coronavirus known as “2019-nCoV,” becoming the first institution in Europe to sequence the virus since the start of the outbreak. The virus was sequenced at the Institut Pasteur’s Mutualized Platform for Microbiology (P2M), which performs genome sequencing on bacterial, viral, fungal and parasite strains received by National Reference Centers and World Health Organization Collaborating Centers for the purpose of infectious disease surveillance.
    In December 2019, an outbreak of apparently viral pneumonia of unknown etiology emerged in the city of Wuhan, in the Chinese province of Hubei.
    On January 9, 2020, the Chinese health authorities and the World Health Organization (WHO) announced the discovery of a novel coronavirus, known as 2019-nCoV, which was confirmed as the agent responsible for the pneumonia cases.
    Over the weekend of January 11-12, the Chinese authorities shared the full sequence of the coronavirus genome, as detected in samples taken from the first patients. “Sequencing the genome of pathogens is crucial for the development of specific diagnostic tests and the identification of potential treatment options,” explains Sylvie van der Werf, Director of the National Reference Center (CNR) for Respiratory Viruses at the Institut Pasteur.
    Friday January 24, 2020. Detection of the virus confirmed in France
    On Friday January 24, late in the morning, the Institut Pasteur received samples of three suspected cases (two patients in Paris and one in Bordeaux). “Using the samples taken from these patients, we detected the novel coronavirus,” says Sylvie Behillil, Deputy Director of the CNR at the Institut Pasteur.
    From Friday January 24, 2020. Viral genome sequenced at the Institut Pasteur
    That same Friday evening, scientists launched the process of sequencing the viral genome based on the samples. The CNR prepared the material for sequencing, ready for P2M to begin work immediately the following Monday. The sequencing run was completed by early evening on the Tuesday, and the scientists used data analysis to obtain the sequence of the whole genome in two of the first three confirmed cases in France. “This proves the efficacy of the CNR’s process of analysis based on viral sequencing,” continues Vincent Enouf.
    Thursday January 30, 2020. The Institut Pasteur obtains and shares the whole sequence of the virus
    The P2M platform (see below) currently performs at an extremely high level; the average time taken to produce sequences ranges from three days (for emergencies) to a maximum of ten days. In this case, it took just three days for the whole sequence to be determined: “We performed data analysis during the night from Tuesday to Wednesday, then corroborated the results on Wednesday with counter analysis,” explains Vincent Enouf. “The whole sequence was confirmed in just three days.”
    What can we learn from it? “The sequences were identical in all our samples. One member of the couple must have contaminated the other, as the virus is the same.” The two full sequences of the virus isolated in two of the first French cases were submitted to the Global Initiative on Sharing All Influenza Data (GISAID) platform, which was initially developed to share sequences and monitor the genetic evolution of influenza viruses, a process that is vital to determine the composition of the influenza vaccine. A special “coronavirus” tab has been created so that the scientific community can work together and advance at a quicker pace.
    “Around twenty other sequences of the novel coronavirus genome have been obtained worldwide, and if we compare them with ours, we can see that they are all very close; there is not much diversity in the viruses analyzed, which suggests that coronavirus 2019-nCoV did not need to mutate in order to adapt and spread,” continues Vincent Enouf.
    The National Reference Center (CNR) for Respiratory Viruses at the Institut Pasteur in Paris is one of WHO’s reference laboratories for coronavirus 2019-nCoV.
    A total of eight people from the CNR and two from the P2M sequencing platform have been working on the virus this week and will continue to monitor the outbreak in France.
    P2M, a state-of-the-art mutualized platform for microbiology also open to external CNRs
    P2M is also available to external CNRs for sequencing. In 2019 it worked with four CNRs based outside the Institut Pasteur. The platform sequences bacteria, viruses, parasites and fungi. Thanks to experience gained over the past five years (since 2015), P2M today offers a highly efficient service, as shown by a first-pass success rate (i.e. a high-quality sequence providing comprehensive information on the entire genome) of more than 95% in 2019. Sequence production takes between three days (for emergencies) and ten days at most.
    In 2019, P2M sequenced around 25,000 pathogens. Genome sequencing increases the sensitivity threshold for outbreak detection. Early identification of outbreaks by the Institut Pasteur’s scientists (clustered cases in a short space of time caused by the same pathogen) enables epidemiologists to get to work immediately to determine the origins of the outbreak, and the authorities to coordinate the public health response.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200131114748.htm

  10. I applaud your decision to be “non-PC” David. From where I sit, that movement, if it can correctly be called that, has generated a lot of fuzzy thinking.

  11. You need to do two thing Mr. Middletown. First, with regards to seizing the assets of a foreign government you need to find a court that exercises something called jurisdiction to get that done. You should review the 14th Amendment also in association with your investigation of said jurisdiction and seizure. Secondly, you need to investigate the status of the Rome Treaty as it applies to the ICC, unless you know of a different criminal court that would have jurisdiction in the criminal matter.

  12. Theories of SARS-CoV-2 origins
    It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus. As noted above, the RBD of SARS-CoV-2 is optimized for binding to human ACE2 with an efficient solution different from those previously predicted7,11. Furthermore, if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of the several reverse-genetic systems available for betacoronaviruses would probably have been used19. However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARS-CoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone20. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer. We also discuss whether selection during passage could have given rise to SARS-CoV-2.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    • If you refer to the Nature Medicine article of 17 March 2020, that was a laughable piece of work, largely discounted in science circles. First, it’s premised on a menagerie of critters being housed at the Wuhan Seafood Market. There’s no evidence that bats, pangolins or other exotics were sold at the market. No fancy sequencing needed on that point.

      Second, the authors of the Nature Medicine piece can’t tell readers the genomes they found in the SARS-CoV-2 virus. All the authors do is spitball it suggesting the virus could have come from bats or pangolins or both or just from human transmission.

      Third, the self-elected high priests use a strawman argument to discount lab origins of the COVID virus; namely a bespoke virus assembled nucleotide by nucleotide. However, these guys are well aware that Gain Of Function (GoF) research entails serial infections of animal models until the right mutations appear in the host animal. At least eight years ago researchers upgraded the SARS virus to make it highly transmissible through aerosols in the lung tissue of various animals.

  13. biological weapons site? If this was anything other than faked news then they would not have released it until after they had a vaccine.

    • The story goes that they were monkey’ing around with SARS1 virus and somehow CRISPR’d some components from HIV virus as it has a great ‘in’ to the human cell. Further, it was remarked that McDonald’s has better safety protocols than that Wuhan virology lab so something was bound to get out. This SARS2 thing just happened to be the culprit. As we now know, it’s a rather infectious/contagious little bugger but not a good ‘bioweapon’ as upwards of 90% of those infected are asymptomatic or mildly affected.

      • Could bioweapons be used to damage economies? The US is trillions deeper in debt, with possibly bad days ahead. Resources are being expended. Congress is gone. This scare could end up being more disruptive and costly than 9/11.
        Is China experiencing anything like this? Will international trade balances be shifted? Is China more or less liable to suffer more than the US as a result of this pandemic, either short or long term?

      • The story goes…

        Well, the story I heard was…

        The Chicoms were working on a vaccine (hopefully) or a weapon (possibly) which involved laboratory animals, and various inferior strains of various viruses existed in various lab animals, which needed to be disposed of. An underpaid lab worker disposed of the animals at the meat market, hoping to make some extra cash on the sly.

        The original reason for the Chicoms trying to hide the evidence was because they hoped to hide what their lab was working on. But the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray. Things have gotten completely out of hand now, and, if any spy vs. spy stuff is involved, our side will be just as secretive as their side.

        …….or that’s what I heard.

    • Oh I see your logic.

      We must have a cure in case they attack us some more.

      By this logic Britain – who was grossly understrenght at the time – should not only not declared war against Germany on September 3rd, but also tell their media that there was nothing to see in Poland.

    • That’s right. No vaccine for a disease that preferentially kills those as old as the Chinese Politburo? They didn’t intend this to happen.

      And also if anyone wanted to start biological warfare surely they would go big.
      There are viruses that are airborne, that hit people of working age preferentially and that are far more lethal.

      Better yet, hey could have tried starting biological warfare in a country that is not their own.

      • In 2009 the U.S. government launched a program to hunt for unknown viruses that can cross from animals to humans and cause pandemics. The project, called PREDICT, was funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development, and it worked with teams in 31 countries, including China.

        Indeed, in September 2019, just months before the COVID-19 pandemic began, USAID announced it would end funding for PREDICT.

        EcoHealth researchers and their partners, including a team at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China, had identified numerous SARS-related coronaviruses in bats and were following up with laboratory experiments on several of them. But, he adds, how and where the SARS-CoV-2 spillover occurred is not known for certain. There was an early suspicion that the initial outbreak could have started at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, which was closed on January 1.

        But “we don’t know if the spillover happened outside the market and then began spreading after it was brought there,” Olival says. It is also unclear if there was an intermediate animal host between the disease-carrying bats and humans.

        https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-the-coronavirus-slipped-past-disease-detectives/

      • @ M Courtney

        If a new virus appeared in your country and I accused you of accidentally releasing a bioweapon, then pulling a vaccine out of your back pocket would not necessarily convince me otherwise, right?

      • And also if anyone wanted to start biological warfare surely they would go big.

        Depends on what the goal of the alleged biological weapon release was. If they wanted to generate fear and panic enough to get countries to implement policies that would cripple their own economies, a virus like this would work a treat, as we’ve seen.

        But again, you are working from a false premise. That the virus might have came from a lab (and given the proximity of the lab to the source of the initial outbreak, not to mention China’s lack of rigorous safety standards, that’s a possibility that can’t be dismissed out of hand.) does not mean it was deliberately released as an act of biological warfare.

        • But once it was released there is an opportunity to exploit the fear it generated to china’s advantage – using all their well developed propaganda techniques

          • Indeed. Closing off internal to China travel but allowing international travel to continue does point to that possibility.

      • All these different names stem from the WHO going out of their way to ignore past naming conventions to protect the CPC, who championed the selection of their chair.

        The name of the virus was already known as SARS-CoV-2, accepted by the WHO. They didn’t have the power to rename the virus, so they gave an altogether different name to the disease: SARS is out, COronaVIrus Disease-2019 was in, further shortened to COVID-19.

        This malady would have been known as Wuhan SARS (sudden acute respiratory syndrome) were it not due to fancy footwork at the top of the WHO.

    • No, it sounds like the name of a crap military special ops unit in a bad movie.

      ChiCom-19: The Day of Conquering
      Chicom-19: Warriors of Destiny
      Chicom-19: Day the Earth Stood Still

      … and other such sequels.

  14. The answer to your question is: Yes, the Wuhan Plague started by the ChiCom virus came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. It was a virus created by Shi Zhangli who spliced sections of HIV virus into a SARS like caronavirus discovered in caves in and around the Shitou Cave in South China, 900 km from Wuhan.
    Shi has published many papers related to her study of these viruses and their ability to infect bats, and other mammals, including humans.
    But the original virus did not have the correct properties to spread from human to human, so she modified it to get it to bind properly with human cells. An examination of the RNA of the ChiCom19 virus shows it to be identical to her original bat hosted virus, with four sections replaced with exact sequences from an HIV virus.
    So this virus did not originate in the market. And everything the CCP has been saying about it is untrue. In fact if you assume every statement from the CCP is a lie, you will find the truth rather easily because the whole sequence of events is a logical progression from that starting point.
    I don’t want to indict the Chinese public in this because they are just as much victims as the rest of the world. But the CCP has shown a wanton disregard for the lives and health of the people of the Earth.
    They are a criminal organization. And from this point forward those who aid and abet their actions are tainted by the stench of their behavior.

      • Research the papers by Shi Zengli. You will find what you want right up until 2 years ago, when her work became non-public. About when she moved from mice to primates. Look for a SHC014 backbone with a GP41 protein added to the S protein.
        And you might want to look into her research student Hauang Yanling while you are at it. Nice little story there.
        I am not going to do all the work. If you want answers start digging, and find them yourself. Your not going to believe what I found. I can’t believe it myself.

        • “I am not going to do all the work.”
          Actually, I am not going to do any work at all.

        • But, but… Shi Zengli swear on her life that Hauang Yanling isn’t dead nor that she is infected.

          • She could be patient 0, she could be a saboteur, she could be patsy, she could be a spy…etc. Right now it is unknowable.
            What is logical is that the CCP would produce her if they could. It seems they couldn’t clear her web presence entirely, but Shi did not know that and originally when asked said she didn’t know her. That is a lie. Then that she left in 2015. At least a partial lie, she appears in a group photo from 2018. If she left the Virology lab in 2015 when she got her MS degree, the CCP would know where she went next. She had Top Secret Clearance to work there. They don’t want her working for anyone they don’t control. They don’t even want her dating anyone they don’t approve of.
            Statistically she is unlikely to die if infected. She could have got infected unknowingly, then spread the virus at the seafood market. The CCP finds out and she is the scapegoat and disappears. It also serves to silence anyone in the lab that may be tempted to talk.
            It may have been her job to sample the animals, and when they take samples there is always a chance of an accident.
            Her disappearance is a problem that is going to stay that way without further info. Highest probability she is ashes. Second highest she is hiding from CCP. Third CCP is hiding her.

        • Anyone still denying the fact that they were shoehorning human ACE2 compatibility into the spike protein of SARS-like virus coming from horseshoe bats should read this study:

          Difference in Receptor Usage between Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) Coronavirus and SARS-Like Coronavirus of Bat Origin
          https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/4/1899

          For their defense they were experimenting at the time on HIV pseudoviruses but I wonder if the procedure at making real SARS like is similar.

          • Well this nut is finally cracking..There is an indication she was patient 0, didn’t know she was infected, went with her boyfriend to the seafood market and infected people there, in addition to the boyfriend. Still speculation, but sounds like it is ready to crack..

            The sources believe the initial transmission of the virus was bat-to-human, and that “patient zero” worked at the laboratory, then went into the population in Wuhan.

            Asked by Fox News’ John Roberts about the reporting, President Trump remarked at Wednesday’s coronavirus press briefing, “More and more we’re hearing the story…we are doing a very thorough examination of this horrible situation.”

            https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    • Dude,
      If you think corona virus spreads between humans in the same way that HIV does you’re confusing tissue paper with condoms.

      • I am looking at it from the view of understanding it better because it is a puzzle. And I am good at logical analysis. And this COV-19 story did not work from that perspective. And analyzing it has been a trip down the rabbit hole. But it started coming together about a week ago, when I started looking at this line of research. And since then everything has confirmed this scenario, and nothing solid conflicts with it.
        Published on Dec 2015, add a year for delay between experimentation and publication it is four years old. Four years to manipulate this. I doubt it took anyway near that long. They were already most of the way there:

        An international team of scientists published this research: we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone.

        Although our study does not invalidate the other emergence routes, it does argue for a third paradigm in which circulating bat CoV pools maintain ‘poised’ spike proteins that are capable of infecting humans without mutation or adaptation (Fig. 4c). This hypothesis is illustrated by the ability of a chimeric virus containing the SHC014 spike in a SARS-CoV backbone to cause robust infection in both human airway cultures and in mice without RBD adaptation. Coupled with the observation of previously identified pathogenic CoV back-bones3,20, our results suggest that the starting materials required for SARS-like emergent strains are currently circulating in animal reservoirs. Notably, although full-length SHC014-CoV probably requires additional backbone adaption to mediate human disease, the documented high-frequency recombination events in CoV families underscores the possibility of future emergence and the need for further preparation.

        Pseudotyping experiments were similar to those using an HIV-based pseudovirus, prepared as previously described10, and examined on HeLa cells (Wuhan Institute of Virology) that expressed ACE2 orthologs. HeLa cells were grown in minimal essential medium (MEM) (Gibco, CA) supplemented with 10% FCS (Gibco, CA) as previously described24. Growth curves in Vero E6, DBT, Calu-3 2B4 and primary human airway epithelial cells were performed as previously described8,25. None of the working cell line stocks were authenticated or tested for mycoplasma recently, although the original seed stocks used to create the working stocks are free from contamination. Human lungs for HAE cultures were procured under University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Institutional Review Board–approved proto-cols. HAE cultures represent highly differentiated human airway epithelium containing ciliated and non-ciliated epithelial cells as well as goblet cells

        https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

  15. Well the good thing about this Chi-Covid virus, if I interpret your graphs right, is it appears to cure influenza 😉

      • Direct flights from Wuhan to Milan, where so many Chinese immigrants work in the leather goods industry.

        • Genetic sequencing does not support this tiresome simplistic view.
          The strain(s) of Wuhan coronavirus found in Italy are more closely related to those present in Hong Kong and Singapore.

          • RNA viruses mutate rapidly. Early in the pandemic, Iceland alone found 44 mutations in the viruses circulationg there.

            They all came originally from the same lab in Wuhan. For that matter, different strains could easily have been engineered from the start, with greater virulence for foreign spread.

            It appears that NYC was infected from Europe, while the US West Coast direcctly from Wuhan.

            Simple indeed.

  16. The Science Establishment high priests insist that the SARS-CoV-2 virus emerged by zoonotic transfer and natural selection, dismissing possibilities of a lab origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    Unfortunately, as the seminal Nature article shows, these researchers haven’t a clue which genomes are involved and merely handwave with an improbable array of exotic possibilities they claim all to be found at the Wuhan Seafood Market. As Rogin explains, neither bats, pangolins, civets, ferrets or unicorns were sold at the Wuhan Seafood Market.

    The self-elected high priests use a strawman argument to discount lab origins of the COVID virus; namely a bespoke virus assembled nucleotide by nucleotide. However, these guys are well aware that Gain Of Function (GoF) research entails serial infections of animal models until the right mutations appear in the host animal. In these cases, the targets are ACE-2 receptors in ferret bronchial tissue. Ferret ACE-2 receptors are extremely analogous to human ACE-2 receptors in lung tissue. This kind of research was perfected at US labs, such as Ralph Baric’s UNC lab, where Zhengli Shi and another Wuhan colleague developed these GoF techniques.

    In a 2015 paper, the UNC team stated that: “Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone.” In other words, Baric’s lab at UNC adapted the SARS bat virus to bind tightly to receptors in the lungs of mice. That made the SARS virus transmissible by airborne routes.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 Note, Zhengli Shi is co-author of this paper, right next to Baric’s name.

    Laboratory origins of the SARS-CoV-2 is definitely on the table. Every day as more information emerges, the BSL-4 lab looks to be the source of this virus.

    • I don’t see the USA being so careless as to let this pandemic’s virus loose. Of course I can’t be sure USA doesn’t have any clandestine virus research.

      Among 15 co-authors of 2015 research are 2 from Key Laboratories of Special Pathology and Biosafety WUHAN Institute of Virology Chinese Academy of Sciences WUHAN. The USA team was not fools & included someone from the Department of Cancer Immunology & AIDS.

      Funding was by National Natural Science Foundation of CHINA & USA N.I.H. What I am not inclined to rule out is a ChiCom’s directive to apply experience gained in 2015 to fiddle back in WUHAN with what became this pandemic’s novel 2019 coronavirus.

      My surmise is it is false that “… BSL-4 lab … [is] … source of this virus.”

      Furthermore, that idea seems to be something encouraged by ChiCom electronic keyboard disinformation posters – aiming to get it picked up on electronic media to support the party line this pandemic is a USA plot that backfired.

      • Your comments are very confused and disordered, gringo. Labs in China and the USA used bat SARS as the backbone for their chimeric virus experiments. No one country has the power to control these experiments.

      • I mis-understood “BSL-4 lab” to be a reference to a USA lab. So wish to correct my mistaken surmise it is not the source of the pandemic virus.

        My apologies, as well, to Posa for skewing any content of their comment.

  17. So you think climate scientists should not use the terms like “possible”, “probable” and, in my view, even worse “Did xxx Come From xxxx”

    Then you use the same here – just so strange.

    Let me try you on some
    it is possible that the virus originated on a comet?
    Did aliens seed Wuhan with the virus?
    probably the us military dropped a vial of virus on wuhan

    • I agree. Never trust China. The US learned the hard way as President after President curried kickbacks as America’s mfg left for China. Heck Ol’ Joe Biden’s son was able to somehow get a billion dollar investment from China back in the Obama days…crazy. China is not dumb and are very patient. I doubt they saw Trump happening but they will bide their time until a more amiable stooge takes office.

    • The author didn’t use the terms “possible” or “probable” with regard to science.

      The closest to it was, “They should be held financially, and possibly criminally liable for all of the damages related to it,” which is in a legal context and nothing of the sort you are whining about. Oh, and, “He [Tucker Carlson] and Bill Gertz discussed the possibility that it might be a bio-weapons lab,” which again has nothing to do with what you are whining about.

      “Let me try you on some…it is possible that the virus originated on a comet?”

      Lol. There are bots who write better. Just so strange.

      “…Did aliens seed Wuhan with the virus? probably the us military dropped a vial of virus on Wuhan…”

      Zero evidence of that. Researchers in China, however, concluded that the virus was spread from a lab in Wuhan. There’s more evidence that the virus originated in Wuhan than there is evidence the people you called mom and dad were actually your parents.

      • Diseases from Space is a book published in 1979 that was authored by astronomers Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe, where they propose that many of the most common diseases which afflict humanity, such as influenza, the common cold and whooping cough, have their origins in extraterrestrial sources. The two authors argue the case for outer space being the main source for these pathogens- or at least their causative agents.

        comet Africano perihelion 2019-09-05

    • “probably the us military dropped a vial of virus on wuhan”
      Do the CHICOMs pay you well ?

  18. One more thing Mr. Middleton regarding criminal prosecution. China does not have an extradition treaty with the USA.

  19. Damn I forgot 5G uhf frequencies emitted from masts all over large cities cause the virus and it is probably encoded into the signal by Huawei

  20. State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses

    By Josh Rogin

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/
    April 14, 2020

    Two years before the novel coronavirus pandemic upended the world, U.S. Embassy officials visited a Chinese research facility in the city of Wuhan several times and sent two official warnings back to Washington about inadequate safety at the lab, which was conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats. The cables have fueled discussions inside the U.S. government about whether this or another Wuhan lab was the source of the virus — even though conclusive proof has yet to emerge.

    * * *

    What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.

    “During interactions with scientists at the WIV laboratory, they noted the new lab has a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory,” states the Jan. 19, 2018, cable, which was drafted by two officials from the embassy’s environment, science and health sections who met with the WIV scientists. (The State Department declined to comment on this and other details of the story.)

    * * *
    As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley.

    * * *

    There are similar concerns about the nearby Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention lab, which operates at biosecurity level 2, a level significantly less secure than the level-4 standard claimed by the Wuhan Insititute of Virology lab, Xiao said. That’s important because the Chinese government still refuses to answer basic questions about the origin of the novel coronavirus while suppressing any attempts to examine whether either lab was involved.

    * * *

    “The idea that it was just a totally natural occurrence is circumstantial. The evidence it leaked from the lab is circumstantial. Right now, the ledger on the side of it leaking from the lab is packed with bullet points and there’s almost nothing on the other side,” the official said.

    As my colleague David Ignatius noted, the Chinese government’s original story — that the virus emerged from a seafood market in Wuhan — is shaky. Research by Chinese experts published in the Lancet in January showed the first known patient, identified on Dec. 1, had no connection to the market, nor did more than one-third of the cases in the first large cluster. Also, the market didn’t sell bats.

    * * *

    We don’t know whether the novel coronavirus originated in the Wuhan lab, but the cable pointed to the danger there and increases the impetus to find out, he said.“I don’t think it’s a conspiracy theory. I think it’s a legitimate question that needs to be investigated and answered,” he said. “To understand exactly how this originated is critical knowledge for preventing this from happening in the future.”

    • Good post. As we learned from Chernobyl communist governments are prone to disasters because people are afraid to speak up, whistleblowers are not protected, there are no public hearings, no freedom of the press.

    • I like this report also. They have no incentive to lie about this (a rarity in this mess). It gives us a good idea on how it would have got out of containment. I have seen similar accounts of the lax security at these facilities. I couldn’t believe it. But with an official report I have changed my view. The stupidity is epic.
      The origin question is pretty solid. There is only one sample virus has a close phylogenetic relationship to nCOV-19 and that is a RaTG13 sample at the Wuhan lab.

      We then found a short RdRp region from a bat coronavirus termed BatCoV RaTG13 which we previously detected in Rhinolophus affinisfrom Yunnan Province showed high sequence identity to nCoV-2019. We did full-length sequencing to this RNA sample. Simplot analysis showed that nCoV-2019 was highly similar throughout the genome to RaTG13 (Fig. 1c), with 96.2% overall genome sequence identity. Thephylogenetic analysis also showed that RaTG13 is the closest relative of the nCoV-2019 and form a distinct lineage from other SARSr-CoVs . The receptor binding protein spike (S) gene was highly divergent to other CoVs, with less than 75% nt sequence identity to all previously described SARSr-CoVs except a 93.1% nt identity to RaTG13. The S genes of nCoV-2019 and RaTG13 S gene are longer than other SARSr-CoVs. The major differences in nCoV-2019 are the three short insertions in the N-terminal domain, and four out of five key residues changes in the receptor-binding motif, in comparison with SARS-CoV . The close phylogenetic relationship to RaTG13 provides evidence for a bat origin of nCoV-2019. We rapidly developed a qPCR detection based on the receptor-binding domain of spike gene, the most variable region among genome. Our data show the primers could differentiate nCoV-2019 with all other human coronaviruses including bat SARSr-CoV WIV1, which is 95% identity to SARS-CoV

      It almost certainly came from RatG13, unless they had a fully formed COV-19, that got out. Then they deleted the records. If they are going to clean up one, why not both? RaTG13 only needed minor changes to morph into nCOV-2019. That could have happened through grafting and replicating in the lab. I don’t see a reason to delete one but not the other, unless it was overlooked.

      The story behind obtaining these samples is that it is very difficult. The bats are infected by a virus and produce antibodies and eliminate the virus. Just like us. So you have to catch one after it is infected, but before it clears the virus. Tough to do. They spent the better part of a year catching bats with no virus. Until they started antibody testing the bats. That leads you the right caves, then you sample bats in bulk and process samples in bulk and start looking through hundreds sample and sorting hundreds of coronavirus’, until you find some SARS virus strains. Not easy to do.

      Not statistically probable to find a bat with active virus, 500 miles away from the tropical conditions they live in, in the winter, in a seafood market, that didn’t sell bats, that was the wrong kind of bat for eating (microbat). Does not meet the threshold for possible consideration.

  21. China has put their research centres for viruses near where the bats that carry viruses live.

    Why would they put the research centres anywhere else? Why would they transport that dangerous material any further than they have to.

    This is a classic case of “Correlation does not equal Causation”.

    • The put it in Wuhan because the one they had in Beijing had a breach with the SARS virus. Killing two people.
      All the caves with bats that carry corona viruses are in the South. In and around Shitou Cave. Remote areas where few people live.
      Here are words of someone that worked at the lab in Wuhan:

      “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical areas of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir for many viruses. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “could they have come from our lab?”

      So in this case the correlation you speak of does not exist. But a much more powerful one does, that the person at the center of this let slip out of her conscience.

      • “All the caves with bats that carry corona viruses are in the South. In and around Shitou Cave. Remote areas where few people live.”

        The bats live about 500 miles from Wuhan. They are not the kind of bats that are normally sold in a market, being very small.

        So, there is a good chance that this virus infected someone working at one of these Chinese labs, and that’s how it got out. The carrier may not even have known they were infected.

        I doubt the initial infection of the Chinese population was done deliberately, but China’s leaders deliberately infected the rest of the world with it, by encouraging international flights in and out of China even though they knew they had an infectious virus spreading all over.

    • Wuhan is a long way from the bat caves of Yunnan. And from Guangdong, whence prior Chinese viral pandemics have originated.

    • Why Am I not surprised the M Courtney is a china apologist pushing fake news about China. As others pointed out the bats that carry the viruses inhabit caves hundreds of miles away from Wuhan. Care to try a different line of Chi-Com propaganda M?

      • Just being rational.
        Loonies who think this was done deliberately make all the real sceptics look bad too.

        It would help if the “China is evil do they must have meant this to happen brigade would actually provide some evidence. Or at last confront the obvious reasons why you are wrong.

        1) The virus isn’t lethal enough. It’s not airborne and it doesn’t kill everybody. Why go big enough to cause offence but not big enough to win.
        2) It hit China first. That is an own goal by any standards.
        3) It preferentially kills those who are too old to work. That means it actually reduces costs to affected countries in the long-term. Why ot release a virus that attacks the workers preferentially?
        4) The Chinese leadership are not the workers. They are the elderly. Why would thy attack themselves?
        5) Many other reasons that sensible people think of for themselves…

        Until you confront reality and stop the ad homs you will continue to bring scorn your side. Scorn which then rubs off on sensible people like real sceptics.

      • Fight strawmen often do you? No wonder you love Chinese propaganda so much.

        It would help if the “China is evil do they must have meant this to happen brigade

        read the comments with some comprehension. Most are not claiming China meant this to happen. As Alex Berezow points out, just because it might have come from a Chinese lab, doesn’t mean it was done so deliberately. It would help if china apologists, like you, would confront the obvious reasons why you are wrong!

        1) The virus isn’t lethal enough

        So? that does not preclude it from having originated in a lab.

        2) It hit China first

        Again, does not preclude it coming from a lab. Indeed, the fact that it hit China first in the area *NEAR THE LAB* kind of points to the possibility of accidental release from the lab. AS Tucker and his guest were discussing, as Alex Berezow eventually admitted.

        3) It preferentially kills those who are too old to work

        Again you are running from the false presumption that China released it deliberately as a bioweapon, a position most no one is actually taking. Not Tucker Carlson, Not Alex Berezow, not David Middleton, Not myself, not Russ R, not Tom Abbott, nor jus about everyone else in this thread except *you* with your strawman.

        4) The Chinese leadership are not the workers

        See answer to 3

        5) Many other reasons that sensible people think of for themselves

        Well, that leaves you out then. There’s no thinking for yourself when you are busy attacking strawmen that most no one here is arguing.

        Until you confront reality and stop the ad homs you will continue to bring scorn your side

        Pot meet kettle. Get your head out of your socialist/communist loving backside and confront the reality that the possibility this virus started in a lab is very real. much more real than your communist propagandized brain is willing to accept.

        (and it hasn’t gone unnoticed that you ignored all the points against your previous wrong propaganda laden post about Wuhan being near where the bats that carry viruses live)

        • If your argument is that this purely a muck up that could have happened to anyone then I see no reason to argue.
          China does research viruses. So do we in the West.
          But how does the argument that “This is bad luck in a lab” really differ from “This is bad luck that has happened occasionally anyway throughout history”?
          Loonies talk about this as though it was all a CONSPIRACY but under pressure you admit that this just one of those things that happens.
          Congratulations. You have learnt.

          • You say “I have learnt” as if I was ever pushing a different position. I wasn’t, my position on this remains the same. *You* are the one that was railing against a position no one here was holding. And clearly you have *NOT* learnt, as you can’t even admit that you were arguing against a strawman of your own making here. So no congratulations to you for having learned nothing.

          • Also, you ask But how does the argument that “This is bad luck in a lab” really differ from “This is bad luck that has happened occasionally anyway throughout history”?

            The answer is in China’s response. They initially tried to hide it, cover it up and lie about it. Why? Well if they realized it started in their labs, it looks extra bad on them, so they’d want to cover up that little fact. Whereas if it was just “bad luck that happens throughout history” as you put it, there’s less of a rational reason for their behavior (beyond institutional incompetence and corruption, as is typical of the communist system you so adore, which obviously can’t be ruled out either).

          • “Loonies talk about this as though it was all a CONSPIRACY”

            There are two parts to this story. One is the virus was introduced into the Chinese population accidentally.

            The other is the part where the Chinese leadership knew they had an infectious disease spreading all over and the Chinese leadership shut down air traffic from Wuhan within the nation on Jan. 24, 2020, yet the Chinese leadership kept promoting international air travel in and out of Wuhan until almost the end of February. So for over a month after they knew they were spreading an infectious disease,, the Chinese leadership continued to promote internatonal flights in and out of China.

            This is not a conspiracy theory, it is all documented. All these things happened.

            The Chinese leadership is responsible for all the lives lost and all the economic damage in the world caused by the Wuhan virus and its export by the Chinese leadership. Pushback is coming.

            I see where Trump lit a fire underneath the World Health Organization and all its supporters. Here’s the solution for the World Health Organization: Announce the immediate resignation of WHO head Tedros, and commit to reforming the organization. This is what Trump wants. Give it to him or else.

  22. So are we dealing with the “”Mad scientist , or a misguided person experiementing ?

    I suspect that China will come out of this a lot better off than the “”Western countries””

    VK5ELL MJE

  23. from who
    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/events-as-they-happen

    WHO responding to a cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan
    4 January 2020
    WHO announced it would work across its 3 levels – country office, regional office and HQ – to track the situation and share details as they emerged.

    WHO issues its first guidance on the novel coronavirus
    10 January 2020
    Developed with reference to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, WHO issued a tool for countries to check their ability to detect and respond to a novel coronavirus.
    This information is to help with identifying main gaps, assessing risks and planning for additional investigations, response and control actions.

    China makes genome sequencing of novel coronavirus publicly available
    12 January 2020
    China shares the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, which will be very important for other countries as they develop specific diagnostic kits.
    First case of novel coronavirus outside of China confirmed
    13 January 2020
    Officials confirmed a case of the novel coronavirus in Thailand. It was not unexpected that cases of the novel coronavirus would emerge outside of China and reinforces why WHO calls for active monitoring and preparedness in other countries.
    WHO makes field visit to Wuhan, China
    21 January 2020
    The delegation observed and discussed active surveillance processes, temperature screening at Wuhan Tianhe airport, laboratory facilities, infection prevention and control measures at Zhongnan hospital and its associated fever clinics, and the deployment of a test kit to detect the virus.
    The delegation also discussed public communication efforts and China’s plan to expand the case definition for the novel coronavirus, which will build a clearer picture of the spectrum of severity of the virus.
    At the end of the visit, the Chinese Government released the primers and probes used in the test kit for the novel coronavirus to help other countries detect it. Chinese experts also shared a range of protocols that will be used in developing international guidelines, including case definitions, clinical management protocols and infection control.
    Public Health Emergency of International Concern declared
    30 January 2020
    WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus declared the 2019-nCoV outbreak a Public Health Emergency of International Concern, following a second meeting of the Emergency Committee convened under the International Health Regulations.
    Acknowledging that cases have been reported in five WHO regions in one month, the Committee noted that early detection, isolating and treating cases, contact tracing and social distancing measures – in line with the level of risk – can all work to interrupt virus spread.

    • Here is the part that that includes people, instead of 8 weeks of bureaucratic ass-covering :

      According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

      December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

      January 1: The Wuhan Public Security Bureau issued summons to Dr. Li Wenliang, accusing him of “spreading rumors.” Two days later, at a police station, Dr. Li signed a statement acknowledging his “misdemeanor” and promising not to commit further “unlawful acts.” Seven other people are arrested on similar charges and their fate is unknown.
      Also that day, “after several batches of genome sequence results had been returned to hospitals and submitted to health authorities, an employee of one genomics company received a phone call from an official at the Hubei Provincial Health Commission, ordering the company to stop testing samples from Wuhan related to the new disease and destroy all existing samples.”

      January 22: WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus continued to praise China’s handling of the outbreak. “I was very impressed by the detail and depth of China’s presentation. I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.”
      In the preceding days, a WHO delegation conducted a field visit to Wuhan. They concluded, “deployment of the new test kit nationally suggests that human-to-human transmission is taking place in Wuhan.” The delegation reports, “their counterparts agreed close attention should be paid to hand and respiratory hygiene, food safety and avoiding mass gatherings where possible.”
      At a meeting of the WHO Emergency Committee, panel members express “divergent views on whether this event constitutes a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern’ or not. At that time, the advice was that the event did not constitute a PHEIC.”

      On February 1, Dr. Li Wenliang tested positive for coronavirus. He died from it six days later.

      • Russ R. April 14, 2020 at 4:58 pm
        According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.
        —————–
        I would assume you do not call a pandemic on just a couple of cases you have to have proof its crossed continents.
        I would assume a country would like to control panic and would therefore not call an epidemic until proof of new virus was reached.

        • The WHO has plenty to answer for. Your straw man argument is childish.

          It is the first known case. I said nothing about expecting it to create a pandemic response. It is the “beginning of what is known”. It would be great to know what this couple did for a living where they lived, who they spent time with in the days preceding their infection. I suspect that is known and kept secret for a reason.
          And it does raise the question of person to person transmission, DAY 5, not DAY 56.

          That is 50 days of new patients, medical workers getting sick, doctors getting muzzled, and festivities that ended in death for those that went, and those that didn’t.
          Your timeline glosses over that, and if the WHO wasn’t aware of the problem, WHY NOT. That is the reason for their existence. Not discussing protocols and guidelines, and kissing smelly orifices.
          The WHO was notified on 12/30. For two weeks they played footsie with the ChiComs instead of sending someone to the hospitals and getting first hand knowledge of what was going on. Instead on the 14th they are still spouting China propaganda, while the pandemic rages in Wuhan and spills out across the world.
          WTF!

          • And then…
            14…”no clear evidence of person to person transmission”…
            15…
            16…
            17…
            18…
            19…
            20…
            21…
            22…
            23…Tedros still impressed with Pooh Bears Honey..
            24…Wuhan locked down after everyone that can leaves, leaves..
            25…
            26…
            27…
            28…
            29…
            30…WHO unable to delay any longer makes a f.c.k.n. decision, because people that left are already getting sick, and the people they infected are getting sick.
            And the actions of the WHO is making me sick just thinking about it.

          • Winnie the Pooh and Piglet are going to be the most hated people on Earth, before this week is out.

          • @russ r
            https://bfpg.co.uk/2020/04/covid-19-timeline/
            is this a valid time line – I will add to it if you agree it is valid

            December 21st 2019
            Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention published an article on 20th January 2020 stating that the first cluster of patients with ‘pneumonia of an unknown cause’ had been identified on 21st December 2019

            December 31st 2019
            Chinese authorities confirmed they were treating dozens of cases of pneumonia of an unknown cause. Days laters researchers in China identified a new virus that had infected dozens of people. There was no evidence that the virus was spread by humans.
            China contacts the WHO and informs them of ‘cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology’ detected in Wuhan

            January 2nd 2020
            Central Hospital of Wuhan banned its staff from discussing the disease publicly or recording them using text or image that can be used as evidence

            January 8th 2020
            The Chinese government agrees to accept a WHO scientific team to assist their own researchers

            January 11th 2020
            Chinese state media reported the first known death from an illness caused by the virus. It was a 61-year old man who was a regular customer of the market in Wuhan where the virus is believed to have originated, and had previously been found to have abdominal tumors and chronic liver disease.

            January 14th 2020
            Reporters from Hong Kong taken to police station after trying to film the situation within Wuhan hospital

            January 20th 2020
            The first confirmed cases outside mainland China occurred in Japan, South Korea and Thailand, according to the WHO.

            January 21st 2020
            The first confirmed case of the virus in the US in Washington State, where a man in his 30s developed symptoms after returning from a trip to Wuhan.

            January 22nd 2020
            Public Health England announces it is moving the risk level to the British public from ‘very low’ to ‘low’.

            January 23rd 2020
            Wuhan (population over 11 million) is cut off by the Chinese authorities. Planes and trains leaving the city are cancelled, and buses, subways and ferries within the city are suspended. 17 people had died at this point and 570 infected in Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, South Korea and the US.
            Figures compiled by the Chinese Railway Administration showed that approximately 100,000 people had already departed from Wuhan Train Station by the deadline.
            Construction begins in Wuhan for a specialist emergency hospital which opened on 3rd February

            January 26th 2020
            China extends the ‘Spring Festival’ holiday in order to contain the coronavirus outbreak.
            Schools in Beijing to stay closed until further notice

            January 29th 2020
            The UK’s first two patients test positive for Coronavirus after two Chinese nationals from the same family staying at a hotel in York fall ill.
            A plane evacuating Britons from Wuhan arrives at RAF Brize Norton. Passengers go into a 14 day quarantine at a specialist hospital on Merseyside.

            January 30th 2020
            WHO declares a global health emergency amid thousands of new cases in China.

            January 31st 2020
            The US suspends entry into the country by any foreign nationals who had travelled to China in the past 14 days, excluding the immediate family members of US citizens or permanent residents.
            213 people had died and 9,800 infected worldwide.

            February 1st 2020
            Spain confirms its first case of the coronavirus on La Gomera in the Canary Islands

            February 2nd 2020
            The first death of coronavirus is reported outside China, as a 44-year-old man in the Philippines dies after being infected.

            February 4th 2020
            The UK directs its citizens to leave China if possible

            February 5th 2020
            A cruise ship in Japan quarantines 3600 people after a two-week trip to Southeast Asia. 218 people onboard the ship tested positive for the virus.

            February 7th 2020
            The Chinese doctor Dr. Li Wenliang, who tried to ring early alarms that a cluster of infections could spin out of control, dies after contracting the virus. He was reprimanded by authorities in early January and he was forced to sign a statement denouncing his warning as an unfounded and illegal rumor.

            February 11th 2020
            The disease is named ‘Covid-19’, an acronym that stands for coronavirus disease 2019. 1113 people in China have died with 44,653 cases, and 393 cases outside of China.

            February 14th 2020
            France announces the first coronavirus death in Europe – an 80-year-old Chinese tourist. The fourth death from the virus outside mainland China.
            Egypt confirms its first case, the first on the African continent.

            February 17th 2020
            China said it was reviewing its trade and consumption of wildlife, which has been identified as a probable source of the outbreak

            February 19th 2020
            443 passengers leave the Diamond Princess cruises ship. A total of 621 people aboard the ship were infected.

            February 21st 2020
            The virus appears in Iran from an unknown source. Iran announced the two cases then hours later said that both patients had died. Two days later, Iran announced two additional deaths.
            The South Korean government shuts down thousands of kindergartens, nursing homes and community centres, following a surge in infections linked to the secretive church the Shincheonji Church of Jesus.

            February 23rd 2020
            Italy sees a major surge in coronavirus cases – up to 150. Officials locked down 10 towns in Lombardy after a cluster of cases suddenly emerged in Codogno, southeast of Milan. Schools closed and sporting and cultural events were canceled.
            Italy introduces strict measures which place almost 50,000 people in lockdown in an attempt to control the virus

            February 24th 2020
            The Trump administration asks Congress for $1.25 billion for coronavirus response – the US had 35 confirmed cases and no deaths.
            Iran emerges as a second focus point of the virus, with 61 cases and 12 deaths. It is a cause for worry as a place of pilgrimage.

            February 26th 2020
            Latin America reports its first coronavirus case, as Brazilian health officials said that a 61-year-old Sao Paulo man, returning from Italy, tested positive for the virus.

            February 28th 2020
            800 people are now infected in Italy, and cases in 14 other European countries remain an area of concern
            Sub-Saharan Africa records its first infection.
            The first British victim dies of coronavirus onboard the Diamond Princess.
            UK authorities confirm the first case of the illness to be passed on inside the country.
            The worst week for the global stock markets since the 2008 financial crash.
            The WHO raises the coronavirus alert to the highest level.

            February 29th 2020
            The US records its first coronavirus death and announces travel restrictions of ‘do not travel’ warnings for areas in Italy and South Korea. It also bans all travel to Iran and bars entry to any foreign citizen who had visited Iran in the previous 14 days.

            March 4th 2020
            Cases of Covid-19 surge in the UK, as officials announce the biggest one-day increase so far as 34 cases bring the total to 87
            Italy announces it is shutting schools and universities.

            March 10th 2020
            Nadine Dorries, a junior health minister, becomes the first MP to test positive for coronavirus.
            6 people in the UK have now died of the illness, with 373 testing positive

            March 11th 2020
            The US blocks travel from European countries other than the UK for 30 days, as the WHO declares the virus a pandemic and stock markets plunge.
            Chancellor Rishi Sunak announces a £12bn package of emergency support to help the UK cope with the expected onslaught from coronavirus

            March 13th 2020
            The US declares a national emergency and makes $50 billion in federal funds available to tackle the coronavirus.
            A host of UK sporting events announce their postponement including the London Marathon. Premier League fixtures are suspended.

            March 16th 2020
            Latin America imposes restrictions on their citizens to slow the spread of the virus. Venezuela announces a nationwide quarantine to begin on March 17th. Ecuador and Peru implement countrywide lockdowns, and Colombia and Costa Rica close their borders. Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro encourages mass demonstrations by his supporters against his opponents in congress.
            Boris Johnson begins daily press briefings, urging everybody in the UK to work from home and avoid pubs and restaurants to give the NHS time to cope with the pandemic.
            The UK’s death toll rises to 55, with 1,543 confirmed cases, though it is believed 10,000 people have already been infected.

            March 17th 2020
            France imposes a nationwide lockdown, prohibiting all gatherings and only allowing people to go out for fresh air. France had more than 6,500 infections with more than 140 deaths
            The EU bars most travellers from outside the bloc for 30 days.
            Rishi Sunak unleashes the biggest package of emergency state support for business since the 2008 financial crash, unveiling £330bn-worth of government-backed loans and more than £20bn in tax cuts and grants for companies threatened with collapse.

            March 18th 2020
            The UK government announces most schools across England will be shut down from Friday until further notice. Wales and Scotland announce they will also close schools.

            March 19th 2020
            For the first time, China reports zero local infections, a milestone in the fight against the pandemic. Experts said the country would need to see at least 14 consecutive days without new infections for the outbreak to be considered over. 34 new cases were confirmed among people who had arrived in China from elsewhere.

            March 20th 2020
            The UK government orders all pubs, restaurants, gyms and other social venues across the country to close
            The chancellor announces the government will pay up to 80% of wages for workers at risk of being laid off

            March 23rd 2020
            Prime Minister Boris Johnson, in a televised address to the nation, says that Britons should only go outside to buy food, to exercise once a day, or to go to work if they absolutely cannot work from home. Citizens will face police fines for failure to comply with these new measures.
            Worldwide figures stand at more than 270,000 cases and 11,000 deaths.

            March 24th 2020
            Tokyo Olympics likely to be postponed – according to a member of the International Olympic Committee, the 2020 Tokyo Olympics – set to begin in August – will be postponed. Australia and Canada have already announced that their athletes will not compete

            March 25th 2020
            Prince Charles tests positive for the coronavirus.
            In the US, negotiators strike a deal on a $2 trillion coronavirus rescue package intended to assist businesses and millions of Americans amid the halt in the US economy. The bill includes $1,200 for individuals earning up to $75,000, $100 billion for health care providers, and $58 billion for the US airline industry. It would also include $2,400 per month for up to four months to the unemployed. $500 billion goes to industry loans that corporations, cities, and states can apply for.
            Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced a 21-day lockdown of the country’s 1.3 billion residents. India has only recorded 536 cases of COVID-19 so far.
            Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro rails against coronavirus measures being taken in his country, as local officials take preparedness into their own hands.

            March 26th 2020
            G20 world leaders meet virtually to discuss the coronavirus crisis. King Salman of Saudi Arabia calls on the world’s richest economies to ‘extend a helping hand to developing countries’.
            Brits across the UK clap, cheer, and ring bells at 8pm to thank the NHS workers for their service in tackling the pandemic.
            UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak unveils a package of measures to help self-employed workers during the economic downturn, giving those earning less than £50,000 a taxable grant equal to 80 percent of their average profits.

            March 27th 2020
            UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Health Secretary Matt Hancock test positive for the coronavirus
            Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban says that the coronavirus crisis has exposed the EU’s ‘weaknesses’.

            March 28th 2020
            European COmmission President Ursula von der Leyen said the EU ‘looked into the abyss’ in the early days of the crisis but now it has the chance to reinvent itself.
            French President Emmanuel Macron issues a plea for European solidarity to fight the coronavirus crisis, saying ‘I don’t want a selfish and divided Europe’
            Belgium extend confinement measures until 19th April
            UK Chief Medical Officer, Chris Whitty, announces he is self-isolating after experiencing symptoms of the coronavirus

            March 29th 2020
            The European Commission announces that it will revise its proposal for the EU’s next seven-year budget
            US announces social distancing measures to continue until 30th April, as the US records the highest number of coronavirus infections in the world, at more than 139,700 cases.

            March 30th 2020
            Hungarian Parliament passes a bill that gives PM Viktor Orban power to rule by decree, impose a state of emergency without a time limit, and suspend parliament.
            UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announces the government is to spend £75 million on charter flights and airline tickets to repatriate up to 300,000 Britons stranded abroad as countries have closed their borders to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

            March 31st 2020
            Spain joins the US and Italy as one of the few countries to surpass China’s coronavirus case total, reporting 85,195 cases and 8,189 deaths.
            Ethiopia announces it has postponed its parliamentary and presidential elections, originally scheduled for August. The elections were to be a big test for Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed’s reformist measures.
            The White House projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from COVID-19 in 2020, if current social distancing trends hold.

            April 1st 2020
            European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announces that the Commission will present an unemployment reinsurance scheme to ensure workers keep their jobs during the coronavirus crisis.
            Italy announces it will extend lockdown measures until 13th April. Health Minister Roberto Speranza says ‘data shows that we are on the right path and that the drastic decisions are bearing fruit’.
            The 26th Conference of the Parties (COP26) summit, due to be held in Glasgow in November, is postponed until 2021.

            April 2nd 2020
            The number of worldwide coronavirus cases passes one million.

            April 3rd 2020
            German Chancellor Angela Merkel returns to her office after isolating as her physician tested positive for the coronavirus.

            April 5th 2020
            The UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is admitted to hospital for testing after his coronavirus symptoms persist.
            Scotland’s Chief Medical Officer Catherine Calderwood resigns from her post after she is pictured visiting her second home, despite urging Scots to stay at home and avoid all but essential travel.

            April 6th 2020
            German Chancellor Angela Merkel describes the coronavirus crisis as the biggest test the European Union has faced in its history.
            UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is admitted to an Intensive Care Unit as his coronavirus symptoms worsen.

            April 7th 2020
            European finance ministers meet to discuss a range of options to support the bloc’s economy.
            The messaging service WhatsApp announces it is introducing limits to its forwarding service in order to combat disinformation. The application has been a hotbed for the spread of fake news relating to the coronavirus outbreak.
            US stock market indices rise for the second day in a row to hit their highest level since 11th March.
            The airline industry cuts 90% of its flights in Europe.

            April 8th 2020
            It is announced that French GDP is set to shrink by 6% in the first quarter of 2020, and German GDP is predicted to shrink by 4.2% this year.
            The US sees the highest one-day death toll from coronavirus.
            The number of cases across the African continent passes 10,000.

          • Your timeline is fine, if not a bit boring. I am much more concerned with why this occurred, than the documentation of what happened after it was too late to prevent it. Prevention is the key, and a series of bad decisions by people that should know better.
            If they made bad decisions that were reasonable based on experience, risk assessment, and expectations of others, they were Wrong and need to further determine why.
            If they didn’t understand the risk and try to act to mitigate they are Incompetent.
            If they did know better, yet failed in their duties they show Malice.
            Beyond that are actions that are incompatible to the health of the public. Malignant

            The experiments in the lab where dangerous. They were GOF (Gain of Function) viral experiments. The scientific reason for doing them is to prevent a pandemic. But once the new virus exists its mere presence can cause what they are trying to prevent.

            The NIH and other funding bodies have stated this risk, and resumed support for the research after a pause. They must have thought the lab could contain the danger and the knowledge was worth the risk. Wrong.

            The Wuhan Institute of Virology also thought the risk was worth the knowledge. They thought they had sufficient safe guards in place.
            Wrong. Incompetent.

            The CCP thought the risk was worth the knowledge. Thought they could contain the virus and the bad press. Cover-up of virus origin. Muzzled those who did try to warn the public. Delayed and blocked impartial investigation. Maintained deception while hoarding medical supplies, and maintained international travel LONG after it should have been stopped.
            Wrong. Incompetent. Malice. Actions taken after knowledge of release Malignant.

            The WHO must have known of the virology research. Yet they didn’t seem to have much interest in all in the evidence indicating China was hiding something. They should have demanded access to the patients, doctors, nurses, and hospital staff. If they didn’t get it then they announce to the world that “We don’t know, our investigation is blocked by the CCP, and there is reason to suspect person to person transmission”, before it gets out of Wuhan in large numbers.
            Wrong. Incompetent. Malice.

            If any of the officials in Wuhan had just taken responsibility for doing their job, we would have had containment and minimized the damage. But we have patterns of denial of risk, ignorance about what you don’t want to know, and actions that are criminal.
            This was not an accident.
            This was not a Natural Disease Event.
            This was man made, man released, man covered-up, man spread.
            And everyone along the way could have done the right thing.
            And the only ones that did died for it, or are “missing”.
            And glossing over that is a disservice to the honor they showed, that the rest of these bad actors lack.

          • russ r

            Agreed Time line additions. Just who was tardy with action?
            December 21st 2019
            Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention published an article on 20th January 2020 stating that the first cluster of patients with ‘pneumonia of an unknown cause’ had been identified on 21st December 2019

            You cannot act on this – it is a sort of pneumonia with unknown transmission. It was published therefore no secret

            December 31st 2019
            Chinese authorities confirmed they were treating dozens of cases of pneumonia of an unknown cause. Days laters researchers in China identified a new virus that had infected dozens of people. There was no evidence that the virus was spread by humans.
            China contacts the WHO and informs them of ‘cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology’ detected in Wuhan

            no evidence for human to human spread and who informed

            1 January 2020
            WHO had set up the IMST (Incident Management Support Team) across the three levels of the organization: headquarters, regional headquarters and country level, putting the organization on an emergency footing for dealing with the outbreak.

            January 2nd 2020
            Central Hospital of Wuhan banned its staff from discussing the disease publicly or recording them using text or image that can be used as evidence

            damage limitation not called for

            4 January 2020
            WHO reported on social media that there was a cluster of pneumonia cases – with no deaths – in Wuhan, Hubei province.

            5 January 2020
            WHO published our first Disease Outbreak News on the new virus. This is a flagship technical publication to the scientific and public health community as well as global media. It contained a risk assessment and advice, and reported on what China had told the organization about the status of patients and the public health response on the cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan.

            January 8th 2020
            The Chinese government agrees to accept a WHO scientific team to assist their own researchers

            WHO goes to China now they cannot hide problems

            10 January 2020
            Developed with reference to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, WHO issued a tool for countries to check their ability to detect and respond to a novel coronavirus. This information is to help with identifying main gaps, assessing risks and planning for additional investigations, response and control actions.

            January 11th 2020
            Chinese state media reported the first known death from an illness caused by the virus. It was a 61-year old man who was a regular customer of the market in Wuhan where the virus is believed to have originated, and had previously been found to have abdominal tumors and chronic liver disease.

            first death many co-morbidities – so was this the virus?

            12 January 2020
            China shares the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, which will be very important for other countries as they develop specific diagnostic kits.
            First case of novel coronavirus outside of China confirmed

            13 January 2020
            Officials confirmed a case of the novel coronavirus in Thailand. It was not unexpected that cases of the novel coronavirus would emerge outside of China and reinforces why WHO calls for active monitoring and preparedness in other countries.
            WHO makes field visit to Wuhan, China

            January 14th 2020
            Reporters from Hong Kong taken to police station after trying to film the situation within Wuhan hospital

            damage limitation

            14 January 2020
            WHO’s technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens.

            January 20th 2020
            The first confirmed cases outside mainland China occurred in Japan, South Korea and Thailand, according to the WHO.

            January 21st 2020
            The first confirmed case of the virus in the US in Washington State, where a man in his 30s developed symptoms after returning from a trip to Wuhan.

            US now knows

            21 January 2020
            The delegation observed and discussed active surveillance processes, temperature screening at Wuhan Tianhe airport, laboratory facilities, infection prevention and control measures at Zhongnan hospital and its associated fever clinics, and the deployment of a test kit to detect the virus.
            The delegation also discussed public communication efforts and China’s plan to expand the case definition for the novel coronavirus, which will build a clearer picture of the spectrum of severity of the virus. At the end of the visit, the Chinese Government released the primers and probes used in the test kit for the novel coronavirus to help other countries detect it. Chinese experts also shared a range of protocols that will be used in developing international guidelines, including case definitions, clinical management protocols and infection control.
            Public Health Emergency of International Concern declared

            January 22nd 2020
            Public Health England announces it is moving the risk level to the British public from ‘very low’ to ‘low’.

            uk knows – us and uk not taking action – why?

            22 January 2020
            WHO mission to China issued a statement saying that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan but more investigation was needed to understand the full extent of transmission.

            22- 23 January 2020

            The WHO Director- General convened an Emergency Committee (EC) under the International Health Regulations (IHR 2005) to assess whether the outbreak constituted a public health emergency of international concern. The independent members from around the world could not reach a consensus based on the evidence available at the time. They asked to be reconvened within 10 days after receiving more information.

            January 23rd 2020
            Wuhan (population over 11 million) is cut off by the Chinese authorities. Planes and trains leaving the city are cancelled, and buses, subways and ferries within the city are suspended. 17 people had died at this point and 570 infected in Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, South Korea and the US.
            Figures compiled by the Chinese Railway Administration showed that approximately 100,000 people had already departed from Wuhan Train Station by the deadline.
            Construction begins in Wuhan for a specialist emergency hospital which opened on 3rd February

            lock down – us uk no action why?

            January 26th 2020
            China extends the ‘Spring Festival’ holiday in order to contain the coronavirus outbreak.
            Schools in Beijing to stay closed until further notice

            28 January 2020
            A senior WHO delegation led by the Director-General travelled to Beijing to meet China’s leadership, learn more about China’s response, and to offer any technical assistance.
            While in Beijing, Dr. Tedros agreed with Chinese government leaders that an international team of leading scientists would travel to China on a mission to better understand the context, the overall response, and exchange information and experience.

            January 29th 2020
            The UK’s first two patients test positive for Coronavirus after two Chinese nationals from the same family staying at a hotel in York fall ill.
            A plane evacuating Britons from Wuhan arrives at RAF Brize Norton. Passengers go into a 14 day quarantine at a specialist hospital on Merseyside.

            still no uk/us action

            January 30th 2020
            WHO declares a global health emergency amid thousands of new cases in China.

            who declares emergency – there is a definite problem – us/uk no action

            30 January 2020
            WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus declared the 2019-nCoV outbreak a Public Health Emergency of International Concern, following a second meeting of the Emergency Committee convened under the International Health Regulations.
            Acknowledging that cases have been reported in five WHO regions in one month, the Committee noted that early detection, isolating and treating cases, contact tracing and social distancing measures – in line with the level of risk – can all work to interrupt virus spread.

            January 31st 2020
            The US suspends entry into the country by any foreign nationals who had travelled to China in the past 14 days, excluding the immediate family members of US citizens or permanent residents.
            213 people had died and 9,800 infected worldwide.

            us action on flighs (should have happened earlier to be effective virus is already rampant in us) us/uk no lock down why?

            February 1st 2020
            Spain confirms its first case of the coronavirus on La Gomera in the Canary Islands

            February 2nd 2020
            The first death of coronavirus is reported outside China, as a 44-year-old man in the Philippines dies after being infected.

            3 February 2020
            WHO releases the international community’s Strategic Preparedness and Response Plan to help protect states with weaker health systems

            February 4th 2020
            The UK directs its citizens to leave China if possible

            spread it further???

            February 5th 2020
            A cruise ship in Japan quarantines 3600 people after a two-week trip to Southeast Asia. 218 people onboard the ship tested positive for the virus.

            February 7th 2020
            The Chinese doctor Dr. Li Wenliang, who tried to ring early alarms that a cluster of infections could spin out of control, dies after contracting the virus. He was reprimanded by authorities in early January and he was forced to sign a statement denouncing his warning as an unfounded and illegal rumor.

            February 11th 2020
            The disease is named ‘Covid-19’, an acronym that stands for coronavirus disease 2019. 1113 people in China have died with 44,653 cases, and 393 cases outside of China.

            11-12 February 2020
            WHO convened a Research and Innovation Forum on COVID-19, attended by more than 400 experts and funders from around the world, which included presentations by George Gao, Director General of China CDC, and Zunyou Wu, China CDC’s chief epidemiologist.

            February 14th 2020
            France announces the first coronavirus death in Europe – an 80-year-old Chinese tourist. The fourth death from the virus outside mainland China.
            Egypt confirms its first case, the first on the African continent.

            February 17th 2020
            China said it was reviewing its trade and consumption of wildlife, which has been identified as a probable source of the outbreak

            February 19th 2020
            443 passengers leave the Diamond Princess cruises ship. A total of 621 people aboard the ship were infected.

            February 21st 2020
            The virus appears in Iran from an unknown source. Iran announced the two cases then hours later said that both patients had died. Two days later, Iran announced two additional deaths.
            The South Korean government shuts down thousands of kindergartens, nursing homes and community centres, following a surge in infections linked to the secretive church the Shincheonji Church of Jesus.

            south korean lock down bypassed by religious sect worship

            February 23rd 2020
            Italy sees a major surge in coronavirus cases – up to 150. Officials locked down 10 towns in Lombardy after a cluster of cases suddenly emerged in Codogno, southeast of Milan. Schools closed and sporting and cultural events were canceled.
            Italy introduces strict measures which place almost 50,000 people in lockdown in an attempt to control the virus

            italy lock down too late

            February 24th 2020
            The Trump administration asks Congress for $1.25 billion for coronavirus response – the US had 35 confirmed cases and no deaths.
            Iran emerges as a second focus point of the virus, with 61 cases and 12 deaths. It is a cause for worry as a place of pilgrimage.

            Iran problems made worse by sanctions

            February 26th 2020
            Latin America reports its first coronavirus case, as Brazilian health officials said that a 61-year-old Sao Paulo man, returning from Italy, tested positive for the virus.

            February 28th 2020
            800 people are now infected in Italy, and cases in 14 other European countries remain an area of concern
            Sub-Saharan Africa records its first infection.
            The first British victim dies of coronavirus onboard the Diamond Princess.
            UK authorities confirm the first case of the illness to be passed on inside the country.
            The worst week for the global stock markets since the 2008 financial crash.
            The WHO raises the coronavirus alert to the highest level.

            no action from us/uk re lockdown. Whatever the WHO says at this point is irrelevant – the dangers are self evident

            February 29th 2020
            The US records its first coronavirus death and announces travel restrictions of ‘do not travel’ warnings for areas in Italy and South Korea. It also bans all travel to Iran and bars entry to any foreign citizen who had visited Iran in the previous 14 days.

            the virus is loose in the us restrictions not really relevant at this point

            March 4th 2020
            Cases of Covid-19 surge in the UK, as officials announce the biggest one-day increase so far as 34 cases bring the total to 87
            Italy announces it is shutting schools and universities.

            March 10th 2020
            Nadine Dorries, a junior health minister, becomes the first MP to test positive for coronavirus.
            6 people in the UK have now died of the illness, with 373 testing positive

            March 11th 2020
            The US blocks travel from European countries other than the UK for 30 days, as the WHO declares the virus a pandemic and stock markets plunge.
            Chancellor Rishi Sunak announces a £12bn package of emergency support to help the UK cope with the expected onslaught from coronavirus

            11 March 2020
            Deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction, WHO made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic.

            March 13th 2020
            The US declares a national emergency and makes $50 billion in federal funds available to tackle the coronavirus.
            A host of UK sporting events announce their postponement including the London Marathon. Premier League fixtures are suspended.

            March 16th 2020
            Latin America imposes restrictions on their citizens to slow the spread of the virus. Venezuela announces a nationwide quarantine to begin on March 17th. Ecuador and Peru implement countrywide lockdowns, and Colombia and Costa Rica close their borders. Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro encourages mass demonstrations by his supporters against his opponents in congress.
            Boris Johnson begins daily press briefings, urging everybody in the UK to work from home and avoid pubs and restaurants to give the NHS time to cope with the pandemic.
            The UK’s death toll rises to 55, with 1,543 confirmed cases, though it is believed 10,000 people have already been infected.

            March 17th 2020
            France imposes a nationwide lockdown, prohibiting all gatherings and only allowing people to go out for fresh air. France had more than 6,500 infections with more than 140 deaths
            The EU bars most travellers from outside the bloc for 30 days.
            Rishi Sunak unleashes the biggest package of emergency state support for business since the 2008 financial crash, unveiling £330bn-worth of government-backed loans and more than £20bn in tax cuts and grants for companies threatened with collapse.

            March 18th 2020
            The UK government announces most schools across England will be shut down from Friday until further notice. Wales and Scotland announce they will also close schools.

            uk lockdown begins

            18 March 2020
            WHO and partners launch the Solidarity Trial, an international clinical trial that aims to generate robust data from around the world to find the most effective treatments for COVID-19.

            March 19th 2020
            For the first time, China reports zero local infections, a milestone in the fight against the pandemic. Experts said the country would need to see at least 14 consecutive days without new infections for the outbreak to be considered over. 34 new cases were confirmed among people who had arrived in China from elsewhere.

            March 20th 2020
            The UK government orders all pubs, restaurants, gyms and other social venues across the country to close
            The chancellor announces the government will pay up to 80% of wages for workers at risk of being laid off

            uk lockdown tightens

            March 23rd 2020
            Prime Minister Boris Johnson, in a televised address to the nation, says that Britons should only go outside to buy food, to exercise once a day, or to go to work if they absolutely cannot work from home. Citizens will face police fines for failure to comply with these new measures.
            Worldwide figures stand at more than 270,000 cases and 11,000 deaths.

            March 24th 2020
            Tokyo Olympics likely to be postponed – according to a member of the International Olympic Committee, the 2020 Tokyo Olympics – set to begin in August – will be postponed. Australia and Canada have already announced that their athletes will not compete

            March 25th 2020
            Prince Charles tests positive for the coronavirus.
            In the US, negotiators strike a deal on a $2 trillion coronavirus rescue package intended to assist businesses and millions of Americans amid the halt in the US economy. The bill includes $1,200 for individuals earning up to $75,000, $100 billion for health care providers, and $58 billion for the US airline industry. It would also include $2,400 per month for up to four months to the unemployed. $500 billion goes to industry loans that corporations, cities, and states can apply for.
            Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced a 21-day lockdown of the country’s 1.3 billion residents. India has only recorded 536 cases of COVID-19 so far.
            Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro rails against coronavirus measures being taken in his country, as local officials take preparedness into their own hands.

            March 26th 2020
            G20 world leaders meet virtually to discuss the coronavirus crisis. King Salman of Saudi Arabia calls on the world’s richest economies to ‘extend a helping hand to developing countries’.
            Brits across the UK clap, cheer, and ring bells at 8pm to thank the NHS workers for their service in tackling the pandemic.
            UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak unveils a package of measures to help self-employed workers during the economic downturn, giving those earning less than £50,000 a taxable grant equal to 80 percent of their average profits.

            March 27th 2020
            UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Health Secretary Matt Hancock test positive for the coronavirus
            Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban says that the coronavirus crisis has exposed the EU’s ‘weaknesses’.

            March 28th 2020
            European COmmission President Ursula von der Leyen said the EU ‘looked into the abyss’ in the early days of the crisis but now it has the chance to reinvent itself.
            French President Emmanuel Macron issues a plea for European solidarity to fight the coronavirus crisis, saying ‘I don’t want a selfish and divided Europe’
            Belgium extend confinement measures until 19th April
            UK Chief Medical Officer, Chris Whitty, announces he is self-isolating after experiencing symptoms of the coronavirus

            March 29th 2020
            The European Commission announces that it will revise its proposal for the EU’s next seven-year budget
            US announces social distancing measures to continue until 30th April, as the US records the highest number of coronavirus infections in the world, at more than 139,700 cases.

            March 30th 2020
            Hungarian Parliament passes a bill that gives PM Viktor Orban power to rule by decree, impose a state of emergency without a time limit, and suspend parliament.
            UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announces the government is to spend £75 million on charter flights and airline tickets to repatriate up to 300,000 Britons stranded abroad as countries have closed their borders to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

            March 31st 2020
            Spain joins the US and Italy as one of the few countries to surpass China’s coronavirus case total, reporting 85,195 cases and 8,189 deaths.
            Ethiopia announces it has postponed its parliamentary and presidential elections, originally scheduled for August. The elections were to be a big test for Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed’s reformist measures.
            The White House projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from COVID-19 in 2020, if current social distancing trends hold.

            April 1st 2020
            European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announces that the Commission will present an unemployment reinsurance scheme to ensure workers keep their jobs during the coronavirus crisis.
            Italy announces it will extend lockdown measures until 13th April. Health Minister Roberto Speranza says ‘data shows that we are on the right path and that the drastic decisions are bearing fruit’.
            The 26th Conference of the Parties (COP26) summit, due to be held in Glasgow in November, is postponed until 2021.

            April 2nd 2020
            The number of worldwide coronavirus cases passes one million.

            April 3rd 2020
            German Chancellor Angela Merkel returns to her office after isolating as her physician tested positive for the coronavirus.

            April 5th 2020
            The UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is admitted to hospital for testing after his coronavirus symptoms persist.
            Scotland’s Chief Medical Officer Catherine Calderwood resigns from her post after she is pictured visiting her second home, despite urging Scots to stay at home and avoid all but essential travel.

            April 6th 2020
            German Chancellor Angela Merkel describes the coronavirus crisis as the biggest test the European Union has faced in its history.
            UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson is admitted to an Intensive Care Unit as his coronavirus symptoms worsen.

            April 7th 2020
            European finance ministers meet to discuss a range of options to support the bloc’s economy.
            The messaging service WhatsApp announces it is introducing limits to its forwarding service in order to combat disinformation. The application has been a hotbed for the spread of fake news relating to the coronavirus outbreak.
            US stock market indices rise for the second day in a row to hit their highest level since 11th March.
            The airline industry cuts 90% of its flights in Europe.

            April 8th 2020
            It is announced that French GDP is set to shrink by 6% in the first quarter of 2020, and German GDP is predicted to shrink by 4.2% this year.
            The US sees the highest one-day death toll from coronavirus.
            The number of cases across the African continent passes 10,000.

          • You are right. We didn’t know the magnitude of deceit and treachery we were dealing with. We thought the Chinese government had some compassion for their own citizens and the citizens of the world.
            We thought the WHO was an independent organization that would investigate a viral outbreak in a expeditious manner, and give adequate warning before it had spread to the world!
            We like to assume others are innocent until proven guilty. We are willing to accept some guilty people escaping justice to reduce people unjustly convicted. That leaves us open to deception by lies that we should not believe.

            Being unaware of others depravity, is not the same as being depraved. We are no longer unaware.
            Now we know. And now the whole world knows. And bombing this page with your timelines will not change that.

          • Russ R. April 17, 2020 at 9:56 pm
            You are right. We didn’t know the magnitude of deceit and treachery we were dealing with.
            —————-
            it is weird that you say this when I have not yet added the lies and damn lies told by president Trump.
            There is only 2 points where the Chinese have tried to supress information. This suppression was in the early days when it could just have been another flu (like Trump said)
            I’m certain if pandemic had been called before proof of such a pandemic could be proven there would have been uproar in US

            Since you do not criticise the time line I will assume you agree with it?
            More time line to follow with added trumps statements.

          • So Trump is not a virologist. He has to get information from a bunch of people, process it, and give his “opinion” on the subject.
            Did he use the power of the government to suppress any vital information in crucial stages of this outbreak?
            Did anyone get dragged into the police station and was forced to sign a retraction of earlier statements?
            Did anyone get “disappeared”, because they told the truth about this threat to public safety?
            Did he close off travel from Wuhan to his own country, but still allow it to other countries? Creating an incentive for those that flee Wuhan to go some where other than cities in China?
            His worst offense is to believe the wrong people. People he thinks are trustworthy based on the responsibility they have to act in the best interest of the public.

            Here is what the expert virologists that he trusted, were saying:

            1/30/2020

            Let me be clear. This declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary, WHO continues to have the confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak. I’ll repeat this. Let me be clear. This declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China. On the contrary. WHO continues to have confidence in China’s capacity to control the outbreak. As you know, I was in China just a few days ago, where I met with President Xi Jinping. I left in absolutely no doubt about China’s commitment to transparency and to protecting the world’s people. To the people of China, and to all of those around the world who have been affected by this outbreak, we want you to know that the world stands with you. We are working diligently with national and international public health partners to bring this outbreak under control as fast as possible.

            And this counsel of wisdom /sarc++:

            there is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade. WHO doesn’t recommend limiting trade and movement.

            https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcripts/ihr-emergency-committee-for-pneumonia-due-to-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-press-briefing-transcript-30012020.pdf?sfvrsn=c9463ac1_2

        • here’s the time line with Trumps lack of action included.

          Can you really claim that China hid data (for more than a few days). Can you really claim that if these delays were not present the US would not have the staggering deaths figures it does have, Trump was fully aware of the virulence of the disease from at least his tweet on 24th January.

          December 21st 2019
          Chinese epidemiologists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention published an article on 20th January 2020 stating that the first cluster of patients with ‘pneumonia of an unknown cause’ had been identified on 21st December 2019

          You cannot act on this – it is a sort of pneumonia with unknown transmission. It was published therefore no secret

          December 31st 2019
          Chinese authorities confirmed they were treating dozens of cases of pneumonia of an unknown cause. Days laters researchers in China identified a new virus that had infected dozens of people. There was no evidence that the virus was spread by humans.
          China contacts the WHO and informs them of ‘cases of pneumonia of unknown etiology’ detected in Wuhan

          no evidence for human to human spread and who informed

          1 January 2020
          WHO had set up the IMST (Incident Management Support Team) across the three levels of the organization: headquarters, regional headquarters and country level, putting the organization on an emergency footing for dealing with the outbreak.

          January 2nd 2020
          Central Hospital of Wuhan banned its staff from discussing the disease publicly or recording them using text or image that can be used as evidence

          damage limitation not called for

          4 January 2020
          WHO reported on social media that there was a cluster of pneumonia cases – with no deaths – in Wuhan, Hubei province.

          5 January 2020
          WHO published our first Disease Outbreak News on the new virus. This is a flagship technical publication to the scientific and public health community as well as global media. It contained a risk assessment and advice, and reported on what China had told the organization about the status of patients and the public health response on the cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan.

          January 8th 2020
          The Chinese government agrees to accept a WHO scientific team to assist their own researchers

          WHO goes to China now they cannot hide problems

          10 January 2020
          Developed with reference to other coronaviruses, such as SARS and MERS, WHO issued a tool for countries to check their ability to detect and respond to a novel coronavirus. This information is to help with identifying main gaps, assessing risks and planning for additional investigations, response and control actions.

          January 11th 2020
          Chinese state media reported the first known death from an illness caused by the virus. It was a 61-year old man who was a regular customer of the market in Wuhan where the virus is believed to have originated, and had previously been found to have abdominal tumors and chronic liver disease.

          first death many co-morbidities – so was this the virus?

          12 January 2020
          China shares the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, which will be very important for other countries as they develop specific diagnostic kits.
          First case of novel coronavirus outside of China confirmed

          13 January 2020
          Officials confirmed a case of the novel coronavirus in Thailand. It was not unexpected that cases of the novel coronavirus would emerge outside of China and reinforces why WHO calls for active monitoring and preparedness in other countries.
          WHO makes field visit to Wuhan, China

          January 14th 2020
          Reporters from Hong Kong taken to police station after trying to film the situation within Wuhan hospital

          damage limitation

          14 January 2020
          WHO’s technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens.

          January 20th 2020
          The first confirmed cases outside mainland China occurred in Japan, South Korea and Thailand, according to the WHO.

          January 21st 2020
          The first confirmed case of the virus in the US in Washington State, where a man in his 30s developed symptoms after returning from a trip to Wuhan.

          US now knows

          21 January 2020
          The delegation observed and discussed active surveillance processes, temperature screening at Wuhan Tianhe airport, laboratory facilities, infection prevention and control measures at Zhongnan hospital and its associated fever clinics, and the deployment of a test kit to detect the virus.
          The delegation also discussed public communication efforts and China’s plan to expand the case definition for the novel coronavirus, which will build a clearer picture of the spectrum of severity of the virus. At the end of the visit, the Chinese Government released the primers and probes used in the test kit for the novel coronavirus to help other countries detect it. Chinese experts also shared a range of protocols that will be used in developing international guidelines, including case definitions, clinical management protocols and infection control.
          Public Health Emergency of International Concern declared

          January 22nd 2020
          Public Health England announces it is moving the risk level to the British public from ‘very low’ to ‘low’.

          uk knows – us and uk not taking action – why?

          22 January 2020
          WHO mission to China issued a statement saying that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan but more investigation was needed to understand the full extent of transmission.

          22- 23 January 2020

          The WHO Director- General convened an Emergency Committee (EC) under the International Health Regulations (IHR 2005) to assess whether the outbreak constituted a public health emergency of international concern. The independent members from around the world could not reach a consensus based on the evidence available at the time. They asked to be reconvened within 10 days after receiving more information.

          January 23rd 2020
          Wuhan (population over 11 million) is cut off by the Chinese authorities. Planes and trains leaving the city are cancelled, and buses, subways and ferries within the city are suspended. 17 people had died at this point and 570 infected in Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, South Korea and the US.
          Figures compiled by the Chinese Railway Administration showed that approximately 100,000 people had already departed from Wuhan Train Station by the deadline.
          Construction begins in Wuhan for a specialist emergency hospital which opened on 3rd February

          lock down – us uk no action why?

          Trump::Jan 24
          China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!

          January 26th 2020
          China extends the ‘Spring Festival’ holiday in order to contain the coronavirus outbreak.
          Schools in Beijing to stay closed until further notice

          Trump:: Jan 27
          We are in very close communication with China concerning the virus. Very few cases reported in USA, but strongly on watch. We have offered China and President Xi any help that is necessary. Our experts are extraordinary!

          28 January 2020
          A senior WHO delegation led by the Director-General travelled to Beijing to meet China’s leadership, learn more about China’s response, and to offer any technical assistance.
          While in Beijing, Dr. Tedros agreed with Chinese government leaders that an international team of leading scientists would travel to China on a mission to better understand the context, the overall response, and exchange information and experience.

          January 29th 2020
          The UK’s first two patients test positive for Coronavirus after two Chinese nationals from the same family staying at a hotel in York fall ill.
          A plane evacuating Britons from Wuhan arrives at RAF Brize Norton. Passengers go into a 14 day quarantine at a specialist hospital on Merseyside.

          still no uk/us action

          January 30th 2020
          WHO declares a global health emergency amid thousands of new cases in China.

          who declares emergency – there is a definite problem – us/uk no action

          30 January 2020
          WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus declared the 2019-nCoV outbreak a Public Health Emergency of International Concern, following a second meeting of the Emergency Committee convened under the International Health Regulations.
          Acknowledging that cases have been reported in five WHO regions in one month, the Committee noted that early detection, isolating and treating cases, contact tracing and social distancing measures – in line with the level of risk – can all work to interrupt virus spread.

          Trump::jan 30
          Working closely with China and others on Coronavirus outbreak. Only 5 people in U.S., all in good recovery.

          Trump::Jan 30
          Just received a briefing on the Coronavirus in China from all of our GREAT agencies, who are also working closely with China. We will continue to monitor the ongoing developments. We have the best experts anywhere in the world, and they are on top of it 24/7!

          January 31st 2020
          The US suspends entry into the country by any foreign nationals who had travelled to China in the past 14 days, excluding the immediate family members of US citizens or permanent residents.
          213 people had died and 9,800 infected worldwide.

          us action on flights (should have happened earlier to be effective virus is already rampant in us) us/uk no lock down why?

          February 1st 2020
          Spain confirms its first case of the coronavirus on La Gomera in the Canary Islands

          February 2nd 2020
          The first death of coronavirus is reported outside China, as a 44-year-old man in the Philippines dies after being infected.

          3 February 2020
          WHO releases the international community’s Strategic Preparedness and Response Plan to help protect states with weaker health systems

          February 4th 2020
          The UK directs its citizens to leave China if possible

          spread it further???

          February 5th 2020
          A cruise ship in Japan quarantines 3600 people after a two-week trip to Southeast Asia. 218 people onboard the ship tested positive for the virus.

          February 7th 2020
          The Chinese doctor Dr. Li Wenliang, who tried to ring early alarms that a cluster of infections could spin out of control, dies after contracting the virus. He was reprimanded by authorities in early January and he was forced to sign a statement denouncing his warning as an unfounded and illegal rumor.

          Trump:: Feb 7
          Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days. Nothing is easy, but he will be successful, especially as the weather starts to warm & the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone. Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!

          Trump::Feb. 10: “I think the virus is going to be — it’s going to be fine.”

          February 11th 2020
          The disease is named ‘Covid-19’, an acronym that stands for coronavirus disease 2019. 1113 people in China have died with 44,653 cases, and 393 cases outside of China.

          11-12 February 2020
          WHO convened a Research and Innovation Forum on COVID-19, attended by more than 400 experts and funders from around the world, which included presentations by George Gao, Director General of China CDC, and Zunyou Wu, China CDC’s chief epidemiologist.

          February 14th 2020
          France announces the first coronavirus death in Europe – an 80-year-old Chinese tourist. The fourth death from the virus outside mainland China.
          Egypt confirms its first case, the first on the African continent.

          Trump::Feb. 14: “We have a very small number of people in the country, right now, with it. It’s like around 12. Many of them are getting better. Some are fully recovered already. So we’re in very good shape.”

          February 17th 2020
          China said it was reviewing its trade and consumption of wildlife, which has been identified as a probable source of the outbreak

          February 19th 2020
          443 passengers leave the Diamond Princess cruises ship. A total of 621 people aboard the ship were infected.

          Trump::Feb. 19: “I think it’s going to work out fine. I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus. So let’s see what happens, but I think it’s going to work out fine.”

          February 21st 2020
          The virus appears in Iran from an unknown source. Iran announced the two cases then hours later said that both patients had died. Two days later, Iran announced two additional deaths.
          The South Korean government shuts down thousands of kindergartens, nursing homes and community centres, following a surge in infections linked to the secretive church the Shincheonji Church of Jesus.

          south korean lock down bypassed by religious sect worship

          February 23rd 2020
          Italy sees a major surge in coronavirus cases – up to 150. Officials locked down 10 towns in Lombardy after a cluster of cases suddenly emerged in Codogno, southeast of Milan. Schools closed and sporting and cultural events were canceled.
          Italy introduces strict measures which place almost 50,000 people in lockdown in an attempt to control the virus

          italy lock down too late

          February 24th 2020
          The Trump administration asks Congress for $1.25 billion for coronavirus response – the US had 35 confirmed cases and no deaths.
          Iran emerges as a second focus point of the virus, with 61 cases and 12 deaths. It is a cause for worry as a place of pilgrimage.

          Iran problems made worse by sanctions

          Trump::Feb. 24 (tweet): “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

          Trump::Feb. 25: “You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country. We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are … getting better. They’re all getting better. … As far as what we’re doing with the new virus, I think that we’re doing a great job.”

          Feb. 25: “Now they have it, they have studied it, they know very much, in fact, we’re very close to a vaccine,”

          February 26th 2020
          Latin America reports its first coronavirus case, as Brazilian health officials said that a 61-year-old Sao Paulo man, returning from Italy, tested positive for the virus.

          Trump::Feb. 26: “Because of all we’ve done, the risk to the American people remains very low. … When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero. That’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

          February 28th 2020
          800 people are now infected in Italy, and cases in 14 other European countries remain an area of concern
          Sub-Saharan Africa records its first infection.
          The first British victim dies of coronavirus onboard the Diamond Princess.
          UK authorities confirm the first case of the illness to be passed on inside the country.
          The worst week for the global stock markets since the 2008 financial crash.
          The WHO raises the coronavirus alert to the highest level.

          no action from us/uk re lockdown. Whatever the WHO says at this point is irrelevant – the dangers are self evident

          Trump::Feb. 28: “I think it’s really going well. … We’re prepared for the worst, but we think we’re going to be very fortunate.”

          Feb. 28: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

          Feb. 28: “This is their new hoax.”

          February 29th 2020
          The US records its first coronavirus death and announces travel restrictions of ‘do not travel’ warnings for areas in Italy and South Korea. It also bans all travel to Iran and bars entry to any foreign citizen who had visited Iran in the previous 14 days.

          the virus is loose in the us restrictions not really relevant at this point

          March 4th 2020
          Cases of Covid-19 surge in the UK, as officials announce the biggest one-day increase so far as 34 cases bring the total to 87
          Italy announces it is shutting schools and universities.

          Trump::March 4: “Some people will have this at a very light level and won’t even go to a doctor or hospital, and they’ll get better. There are many people like that.”

          March 4: Now, this is just my hunch, but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this, because a lot of people will have this and it is very mild… So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better and then, when you do have a death like you had in the state of Washington, like you had one in California, I believe you had one in New York, you know, all of a sudden it seems like 3 or 4 percent, which is a very high number, as opposed to a fraction of 1 percent.

          Trump::March 9 (tweet): “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!”

          March 10th 2020
          Nadine Dorries, a junior health minister, becomes the first MP to test positive for coronavirus.
          6 people in the UK have now died of the illness, with 373 testing positive

          Trump::March 10: “And it hit the world. And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”

          March 11th 2020
          The US blocks travel from European countries other than the UK for 30 days, as the WHO declares the virus a pandemic and stock markets plunge.
          Chancellor Rishi Sunak announces a £12bn package of emergency support to help the UK cope with the expected onslaught from coronavirus

          11 March 2020
          Deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction, WHO made the assessment that COVID-19 can be characterized as a pandemic.

          Trump::March 11: “I think we’re going to get through it very well.”

          Trump::March 12: “It’s going to go away. … The United States, because of what I did and what the administration did with China, we have 32 deaths at this point … when you look at the kind of numbers that you’re seeing coming out of other countries, it’s pretty amazing when you think of it.”

          March 13th 2020
          The US declares a national emergency and makes $50 billion in federal funds available to tackle the coronavirus.
          A host of UK sporting events announce their postponement including the London Marathon. Premier League fixtures are suspended.

          Trump::March 15: “This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

          March 16th 2020
          Latin America imposes restrictions on their citizens to slow the spread of the virus. Venezuela announces a nationwide quarantine to begin on March 17th. Ecuador and Peru implement countrywide lockdowns, and Colombia and Costa Rica close their borders. Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro encourages mass demonstrations by his supporters against his opponents in congress.
          Boris Johnson begins daily press briefings, urging everybody in the UK to work from home and avoid pubs and restaurants to give the NHS time to cope with the pandemic.
          The UK’s death toll rises to 55, with 1,543 confirmed cases, though it is believed 10,000 people have already been infected.

          March 17th 2020
          France imposes a nationwide lockdown, prohibiting all gatherings and only allowing people to go out for fresh air. France had more than 6,500 infections with more than 140 deaths
          The EU bars most travellers from outside the bloc for 30 days.
          Rishi Sunak unleashes the biggest package of emergency state support for business since the 2008 financial crash, unveiling £330bn-worth of government-backed loans and more than £20bn in tax cuts and grants for companies threatened with collapse.

          Trump::march 17: “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic”

          March 18th 2020
          The UK government announces most schools across England will be shut down from Friday until further notice. Wales and Scotland announce they will also close schools.

          uk lockdown begins

          18 March 2020
          WHO and partners launch the Solidarity Trial, an international clinical trial that aims to generate robust data from around the world to find the most effective treatments for COVID-19.

          March 19th 2020
          For the first time, China reports zero local infections, a milestone in the fight against the pandemic. Experts said the country would need to see at least 14 consecutive days without new infections for the outbreak to be considered over. 34 new cases were confirmed among people who had arrived in China from elsewhere.

          March 20th 2020
          The UK government orders all pubs, restaurants, gyms and other social venues across the country to close
          The chancellor announces the government will pay up to 80% of wages for workers at risk of being laid off

          uk lockdown tightens

          March 23rd 2020
          Prime Minister Boris Johnson, in a televised address to the nation, says that Britons should only go outside to buy food, to exercise once a day, or to go to work if they absolutely cannot work from home. Citizens will face police fines for failure to comply with these new measures.
          Worldwide figures stand at more than 270,000 cases and 11,000 deaths.

          March 24th 2020
          Tokyo Olympics likely to be postponed – according to a member of the International Olympic Committee, the 2020 Tokyo Olympics – set to begin in August – will be postponed. Australia and Canada have already announced that their athletes will not compete

          Trump::March 24: “We’re going to be opening relatively soon… I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter.” He added in a subsequent interview: “Easter is a very special day for me… and you’ll have packed churches all over our country.”

          March 25th 2020
          Prince Charles tests positive for the coronavirus.
          In the US, negotiators strike a deal on a $2 trillion coronavirus rescue package intended to assist businesses and millions of Americans amid the halt in the US economy. The bill includes $1,200 for individuals earning up to $75,000, $100 billion for health care providers, and $58 billion for the US airline industry. It would also include $2,400 per month for up to four months to the unemployed. $500 billion goes to industry loans that corporations, cities, and states can apply for.
          Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced a 21-day lockdown of the country’s 1.3 billion residents. India has only recorded 536 cases of COVID-19 so far.
          Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro rails against coronavirus measures being taken in his country, as local officials take preparedness into their own hands.

          March 26th 2020
          G20 world leaders meet virtually to discuss the coronavirus crisis. King Salman of Saudi Arabia calls on the world’s richest economies to ‘extend a helping hand to developing countries’.
          Brits across the UK clap, cheer, and ring bells at 8pm to thank the NHS workers for their service in tackling the pandemic.
          UK Chancellor Rishi Sunak unveils a package of measures to help self-employed workers during the economic downturn, giving those earning less than £50,000 a taxable grant equal to 80 percent of their average profits.

          March 27th 2020
          UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Health Secretary Matt Hancock test positive for the coronavirus
          Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban says that the coronavirus crisis has exposed the EU’s ‘weaknesses’.

          March 28th 2020
          European COmmission President Ursula von der Leyen said the EU ‘looked into the abyss’ in the early days of the crisis but now it has the chance to reinvent itself.
          French President Emmanuel Macron issues a plea for European solidarity to fight the coronavirus crisis, saying ‘I don’t want a selfish and divided Europe’
          Belgium extend confinement measures until 19th April
          UK Chief Medical Officer, Chris Whitty, announces he is self-isolating after experiencing symptoms of the coronavirus

          March 29th 2020
          The European Commission announces that it will revise its proposal for the EU’s next seven-year budget
          US announces social distancing measures to continue until 30th April, as the US records the highest number of coronavirus infections in the world, at more than 139,700 cases.

          March 30th 2020
          Hungarian Parliament passes a bill that gives PM Viktor Orban power to rule by decree, impose a state of emergency without a time limit, and suspend parliament.
          UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announces the government is to spend £75 million on charter flights and airline tickets to repatriate up to 300,000 Britons stranded abroad as countries have closed their borders to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

          March 31st 2020
          Spain joins the US and Italy as one of the few countries to surpass China’s coronavirus case total, reporting 85,195 cases and 8,189 deaths.
          Ethiopia announces it has postponed its parliamentary and presidential elections, originally scheduled for August. The elections were to be a big test for Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed’s reformist measures.
          The White House projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from COVID-19 in 2020, if current social distancing trends hold.

          April 1st 2020
          European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announces that the Commission will present an unemployment reinsurance scheme to ensure workers keep their jobs during the coronavirus crisis.
          Italy announces it will extend lockdown measures until 13th April. Health Minister Roberto Speranza says ‘data shows that we are on the right path and that the drastic decisions are bearing fruit’.
          The 26th Conference of the Parties (COP26) summit, due to be held in Glasgow in November, is postponed until 2021.

          April 2nd 2020
          The number of worldwide coronavirus cases passes one million.

    • In the case of the Wuhan virus, it may be both stupidity and malice.

      Stupidity to allow the virus to be released into the population of China.

      Malice to allow the virus to be released into the population of the world.

      The Chinese leadership encouraged international flights to continue even after they knew for certain they had a highly infectious disease spreading like wildfire in their country. Deliberate malice.

  24. I think the origin issue is very hard to pin down. So in mind probably fruitless.

    The response from ChiCom not good enough by a mile. their culture of deception evident in Putin also is not satisfactory and demands a proper response.

    We need to assume that the people of China would be happy to be rid of the “party” and the reversal of their good fortune with willing partners around the world that being trading partners is about to change.
    India a democratic super giant needs to be our partner of the future. Once the people of China are liberated and democratic resume transmission.

    • “Once the people of China are liberated and democratic resume transmission.“

      I doubt that will happen. Xi has held power for quite some time. He looks fairly young and will stay in power for a while. Any opposition that gets a little too popular…I doubt they last long.

      • He’s 67. so not exactly young, but still has a good number of years left in him. He won’t willingly be going anywhere for a good long while.

  25. I am not a conspiracy nut…I generally reject conspiracy theories outright just due to Occam’s Razor – it is not the simplest explanation for most events, in fact the conspiracy generally complicates the explanation. You have to really provide strong evidence to convince me otherwise.

    That said, I am thoroughly convinced the SARS-CovID-2 virus is a natural virus – there is no evidence AT ALL that I am aware of to suggest otherwise. It is simple to see how this virus could evolve in a bat that is already hosting many other related corona viruses.

    That said, I cannot rule out that the virus did not jump out of a lab studying it through some careless action. It is almost a certainty that scientists had already come into contact with the virus in gathering samples for other corona viruses. It is unknown if they had identified SARS-CovID-2, or isolated it, or tried to grow it. It doesn’t matter – if the virus was in a laboratory environment, then it could escape – there is no such thing as zero risk, and when people are involved you always find someone that doesn’t take tedious procedures seriously, or something just failed without a proper backup, or etc. So whether they knew of the virus, or were studying it, it *could* have made an escape out of a laboratory. One would need to trace back the first known victims and see if they had connections to the lab – direct or indirect. This isn’t going to happen in a communist country – they will never admit a mistake if there was one.

    However, without some new evidence that is contrary, the simplest explanation is it came from a sick animal captured or killed for food. They eat all sorts of exotic animals in China, and people need to make a living so they will harvest anything likely to produce a profit.

    There is *NO* evidence the virus was modified through human manipulation. I find this extremely implausible. Scientists are smart enough to know this virus would make a terrible uncontrolled weapon likely to turn upon the creators. If they had been modifying it using a version of CRISP, we should identify either genes that don’t belong there, or genes made inoperable. Computer analysis of the RNA would reveal something if one were looking, and I have to believe the military has been looking.

    So, most likely this is a natural event caused by human encroachment upon a new or at least isolated bat species. Less likely but possible it escaped from a lab (where they might or might not have known they had it). Almost no possibility this was a weapon of war.

    As for its chances to stick around… It is a single stranded positive sense RNA virus. RNA viruses tend to mutate more readily, increasing the chances it can become re-infectious. Single strand means there is less opportunity to swap out genes with other viruses – so less wholesale change. (The Flu virus contains 8 different RNA segments and multiple infectious strains, so wholesale swapping is common and it’s back in some new infectious form every year). Even after most of the population has been exposed, it is likely this virus will reappear over a few to 10’s of years as it mutates into something viable (can get past existing immunity). If we create an effective vaccine, it can be wiped out but it will not likely be easy to track down all the humans that carry it.

    • None of this really requires any active conspiracies, much less conspiracy theories.

      Whether the virus came from a ChiCom virology lab or a ChiCom wet market, all of the subsequent actions were just SOP for various groups of people. Red China went into full CYA mode. WHO went into full Red China apologist/water carrier mode. The Fire Marshal Gumps of the world went into full tin-horn dictator mode.

    • “There is *NO* evidence the virus was modified through human manipulation”

      How would you know how such manipulated virus would look like?

  26. I found this paragraph from an article at Hotair interesting:

    “Remember, one research paper published in China two months ago suggested it was more likely the virus was released accidentally from a local laboratory than that it arose in the Wuhan wet market. According to that paper, locals who had visited the market said horseshoe bats were not for sale there. However, those bats were being studied at two laboratories nearby, including one that was only a few hundred meters from the market. That paper was later retracted by the author, though it seems possible he was encouraged to do so by the government. The possibility of an accidental laboratory release has even been discussed in a piece at the Washington Post, though it’s only a possibility at this point.”

  27. An uneasy feeling propagates in Germany. The devastating doubt that someone, something, somewhere capitalizes on panic and destruction and is quite unhappy that hell didn’t break as loose as expected.

    Like, your jobs are in jeopardy, industry will go down, you will loose your house, your TDI’s will be seized, you will subsist in minimum resource gated campuses, but, hey, be happy as things can and probably will get much worse.

    Good thing, the foretold sharp increase of HR (human remains) priority cargo is not happening.

  28. Tucker Carlson on Chinese Scientists Saying the Coronavirus Likely Came From Horseshoe Bat in a lab.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK7_8PrGC2Y

    Original Chinese paper which argues that there were no horseshoe bats within 900 km of Wuhan and none in the market

    ‘In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus.
    In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus
    probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety level may need to be reinforced in
    high risk biohazardous laboratories. Regulations may be taken to relocate these
    laboratories far away from city center and other densely populated places.

    https://chanworld.org/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/default_attachments/1581810860-447056518-Originsof2019-NCoV-XiaoB-Res.pdf

  29. The origin of the virus is of secondary importance. More important is the way in which our western democracies believed the worst “leaked” stories coming out of china to shut our economies down and break our social cohesion in the remotest parts of our countries.

    If this was a plan for a communist takeover of the world all the pieces are in place. Even in our supposedly democratic Australia they want to track us with our phones. Next they will want to plant microchips in us, so we can’t leave our phones behind when we go for a walk

    • The at-risk group will have to wear a patch with a yellow skull on it. The Star of David is so passe.

      • Nah. Bill Gates has already invented a neat tattoo we’ll have to show to prove we’ve been vaccinated with his patented Covid-19/20/21/… vaccinations.

  30. Heard a question asked this morning that tickled my sarcasm bone.

    Question: “If I test positive for Covid-19 when I go to the hospital with a stab wound, and then die, did I die of Covid-19?”

    Answer: “It depends. Are you in New York City?”

    Cheers

    MaxP

    • One man hospitalized for Covid-19 in NY related his doctors gave him 2 injections.

      When asked what 1st was the doctor said “Trump shot”. Patient said something like “?Huh?”; to which came the explanation it was that malaria medicine.

      A bit later the doctor returned with a 2nd injection. And patient said something like “?What’s that?”

      The doctor said it’s the “Obama shot.” Another Huh?” from the patient got the doctor to explain it was a blood thinner patient needed because of lying around all the time.

  31. David, your faith the the security of bio-research facilities is misplaced IMHO. When you read about the stuff that goes on in these places (Lab 257, Biohazard by Ken Alibek, Demon in the Freezer) you get a lot less comfortable.

    As to the “it’s not a bio-weapon” several experts say yes and several say no. It would only be a bio-weapon if intentionally released but those facilities (Wuhan, Ft Detrick) have a bad track record that is public.

    China has now officially admitted to what they were working on and guess who paid for it? The USA. Say what you want about George Webb he is very detailed and thorough. He might not be correct but it is a very interesting view.

    • Not true that bioweapons must be intentionally released, and China has a very bad track record, period. Of course if this was intentional, the plan may never be completely revealed, and an claim of being “unintentional” would not be surprising, or disarming.

      • The US record is just as bad. Last July the CDC closed down Ft Detrick, a key US bio-weapons lab in Maryland.

        • The US also has a record of experimenting on the public, and its doubtful China would have any qualms about doing the same to a few million of their own, if it were in “their” interest.
          China is reporting a little over 3000 deaths. Do they know something we don’t. COVID 19 reportedly has multiple strains. Was NY hit on purpose with one of the more virulent strains, as has been Italy, the first G7 to sign on to the new Silk Road?

          • China has a million Uyghurs in concentration camps. They take male head of households and insert male CCP members into homes. They force abortions. They routinely harvest organs from prisoners. They disappear business people, journalists, doctors and scientists.

            They don’t know the meaning of qualms.

          • Losing 3000 mostly old people in order to crash Western economies wouldn’t even register on the Commie qualmometer. Probably not even 30,000. The ghouls of Beijing would be glad to save money on old age pensions.

            China executes more “criminals” than the rest of the world combined. It’s a state secret how many, but Amnesty International and other international groups make the best guesses they can. Iran might kill more on a per capita basis, but that can’t really be known with any precision.

            If the tyrannical, genocidal ChiCom dictatorship wanted to wage economic biological war against its adversaries, the lives of thousands of its own enslaved subject peoples wouldn’t even amount to a cipher. Mao probably killed more of his own people than Stalin, Pol Pot, the Kims and all other Communist mass murderers combined. Now Xi is re-Maoizing China.

            It’s hard for normal people to think like a Communist.

        • “The US record is just as bad. Last July the CDC closed down Ft Detrick, a key US bio-weapons lab in Maryland.”

          How many people did that kill? Just as bad? That’s your comparison?

    • “As to the “it’s not a bio-weapon” several experts say yes and several say no. It would only be a bio-weapon if intentionally released”

      It looks to me like the Chinese leadership deliberately released the Wuhan virus on the world, so it qualifies as a bio-weapon under your definition.

      A bio-weapon doesn’t have to be engineered, it just has to be deployed.

  32. What happened to the science?

    China bashing. Conspiracy theory mongering. Far right politics.

    I’m sorry to see WUWT has fallen so low.

  33. David,
    The 14th amendment to the US constitution states that:
    “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.”

    So it would appear that even suggesting that the US not pay its liabilities to China is unconstitutional. And certainly there is no way that the US can avoid paying its debts no
    matter who owns them. Plus Donald Trump tweeted on the 25th of January:
    “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
    so it would seem that Trump himself thinks China has been transparent about all of this.

      • David,
        that is a default even if the author doesn’t want to call it one. You cannot simply decide
        not to pay a debt or even more bizarrely choose to pay it to someone else. If that was possible I would choose to pay my mortgage to my wife rather than my bank.

        Furthermore the author wants to resell the bonds which sounds a lot like defaulting on the original ones and creating new ones. Plus who exactly do you think would buy a US bond
        if it was clear that the US could default on them at will even if it called it something different. Remember that the US government’s projected deficit was over one trillion
        dollars before all this started and that is a lot of new bonds to sell in a market where you have just defaulted on one trillion dollars of bonds.

        • Your analogy is bogus. You are not a government. Governments have the power to seize assets (like it or not), you do not have such power. Seizure and default are two different things, pretending otherwise shows a complete ignorance of the law.

      • What about war reparations for the Opium Wars? “The lost century” as the Chinese still refer to it.
        Then there is putting up actual proof. Where will you try the case? What if China wants all those vaping deaths exhumed and tested? Who does the actual testing? Who would both parties trust?

        China is now saying and showing the paperwork that USAID funded it at a time when Gain Of Function (GOF ) was banned in the USA (~2015-18). A $375 million research grant. Does that leave you partially responsible as the bank-roller who didn’t keep close tabs on your contractor?

        Sorry but no way does your idea fly any more than a pig with bat wings 🙂

      • “the proceeds from the resale of those bonds ”
        ….
        Please inform all of us anxious listeners how you propose to “resell” bonds that you don’t have possession of?

        • What makes you think we wouldn’t get possession of a good portion of those bonds? Older bonds may be paper, and thus harder to get a hold of, but a lot of the newer bonds are issued, bought, sold and tracked, electronically, and thus can be “captured” with the stroke of a keyboard.

    • Absolutely correct Izaak. If you think the recent bear market was bad, should the US default/not pay it’s debt, our credit/ability to borrow would go down the toilet along with the value of a dollar.

      • Seizure is not default. Red China’s US assets, including Treasury holdings, can be frozen by the President with the stroke of a pen. Red China’s sovereign immunity could be revoked under the The Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA) of 1976 and those assets would then be subject to seizure pursuant to lawsuits in US courts.

        • David
          If the POTUS did stroke his pen, who outside the USA would ever purchase them again.

          It must be warm where you are David, with all this shirt off chest beating stuff going on.

          All this so called lying reminds me of Colin Powell’s address to the UN before the illegal invasion of Iraq and high death toll when the real Intel said there was nothing there.

          Put your shirt back on David.

        • David,
          Do you really mean to say that with a stroke of a pen the US government can seize all
          of its treasury bonds and re-allocate them to the US government thus not having to repay
          them? And then can you explain to me why exactly that isn’t a “default”.

          • Educate yourself on the concept of “seizure of assets” it’s a real thing that happens all the time (usually on a much smaller scale – The United States Marshals Service manages around $2.4 billion worth of property seized by Treasury agencies).

      • Henry the US will never run out of the ability to borrow more money. That is beauty of fiat currency with a federal reserve. The key is for people to not lose faith in the currency and that is what tanks and guns are for.

        I agreed with you that global warming is a scam.

    • “So it would appear that even suggesting that the US not pay its liabilities to China is unconstitutional.”

      A suggestion does not violate the U.S. Constitution. One can suggest all one wants here in the good ole USA and it is perfectly legal and constitutional.

    • So it would appear that even suggesting that the US not pay its liabilities to China is unconstitutional.

      Clearly you know nothing of the constitution. Suggestions are not unconstitutional, indeed the first amendments clearly says you are free say (suggest) whatever you want “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech”. Trying to implement a suggestion that if implemented would run afoul of the constitution, on the other hand, would be unconstitutional. The mere suggestion, however, not so much.

      And certainly there is no way that the US can avoid paying its debts no matter who owns them

      The suggestion isn’t that the US avoids paying its debts, so you are talking something completely different. The suggestion is seizing property to cover China’s liability over the pandemic. It helps to consider what the government does with seized property. It sells it at auction to recoup the amount of the liability, which is exactly what is being suggested here. The bonds/debt will still get paid (so absolutely not a default) just to whomever buys them at auction rather than to their previous owner (China) – Just as a house seized by the state gets a new owner once auctioned off, so too does the seized treasuries (bonds, T-bills, etc) the obligation to pay those treasuries remains (in other words: *not* defaulted).

    • That would be a stretch to call it protective, but maybe their ACE2 isn’t as high as it is in those who take ACE inhibitors.

    • When I had a lymphoma I read stuff. A cause of high red blood count can be smoking. My thoughts on it are that the body compensates for low oxygen (due to CO uptake) to organs simply by telling the blood factory to increase red blood manufacture. Overnight the CO will dissipate and the smoker will have heaps of oxygenated blood by wake-up time. A smoker will tend to smoke less when feeling off-colour (generalisation). Covid-19 sufferers are put on oxygen to improve their health. Perhaps the ‘hit’ of increased oxygen has a prophylactic effect.
      I’m not suggesting taking up smoking. The body’s compensating effect would be due to long-term smoking only.

      • CO doesn’t disappear overnight. One of the main immediate problems caused for smokers is that haemoglobin does not release the CO, therefore the blood is useless. This is not remedied until that blood dies and is replaced.

        This is why CO is lethal.

        • I have read elsewhere that the half-life of CO in the blood is about 5 hours if in a fresh air environment. I hate discovering how the body works. At one time I was blissfully ignorant of the location of bodily organs.

    • You’ve just scratched the surface.

      Besides those you mention, bat-borne viruses include severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2); hantaviruses; lyssaviruses (besides rabies) such as Australian bat lyssavirus; henipaviruses such as Nipah and Hendra virus, and Lassa virus. Several other bat-borne viruses are considered important emerging viruses and under study.

      • SOME QUESTIONS prompted by Phil Salmon’s statement , see above comment;,how do the viruses ‘originate ‘ in bats .
        Do they somehow manufacture viruses .If so from what .?& in what way ?.Are they unique in this respect ?
        Do they acquire viruses from the environment ,food ,in the form of insects ? their (main diet I believe ).Has any research been done on this,?If so what were the findings?

  34. This may have been mentioned already, but Chinese researcher Zhengli-Li Shi (known in some quarters as Bat Woman) and UNC researchers genetically engineered a chimeric virus “with notable pathogenesis” that “can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV.” The US government cut funding for the project so the Chinese government took over and moved it back to the Wuhan lab. Don’t know if it’s the same thing, but sounds a lot like it.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

  35. It’s the WuFlu.
    Political correctness = political leftness.
    Isn’t anti-white racism fun.

    And as for the ‘yellow peril’ comment above, perhaps you should ask 200,000 dead people about that.

    Biden called Trump a racist for shutting flights from China back on January 31.

    Biden presidency in Jan/Feb/Mar of 2020 = 5 million dead Americans.

  36. (Apologies if I posted this twice.)
    This may have been mentioned already, but Chinese researcher Zhengli-Li Shi (known in some quarters as Bat Woman) and UNC researchers genetically engineered a chimeric virus “with notable pathogenesis” that “can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV.” The US government cut funding for the project so the Chinese government took over and moved it back to the Wuhan lab. Don’t know if it’s the same thing, but sounds a lot like it.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

  37. “The first step should be to seize their US Treasury holdings as a down payment on the economic damage that Red China has caused.”

    Yeah You show ’em Dave.

    Then what happens? a) The US government is in default of debt obligations. Treasury holders around the world start selling their Treasury assets while the rest demand a premium (higher interest rates) or they’ll sell too; b) China seizes US held assets in China; c) declares no transactions, especially petroleum purchases will occur in dollars. Others join in. This finishes off the petro-dollar. d) No longer the global reserve currency, US imported goods dramatically rise in price by triple digits, causing massive inflation e) China halts all agricultural purchases from the US crushing the US farm sector for good.f) China halts supply chains to the US. Key industries start shutting down.

    Americans soon realize that China holds all the cards.

    So yeah. You show ’em Dave.

      • Tell us Middleton, how do you propose to “seize” the bonds? Are you going to fly a special Ops contingent into Beijing, break into the vault where they are stored, then fly back to the USA with them?

        • All it takes is a few keystrokes at the Treasury Department. Seizure is not default. Red China’s US assets, including Treasury holdings, can be frozen by the President with the stroke of a pen. Red China’s sovereign immunity could be revoked under the The Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA) of 1976 and those assets would then be subject to seizure pursuant to lawsuits in US courts.

          • Not true. Most Treasury securities are marketable, and cannot be electronically canceled. Tell me Middleton how do you “seize” this: https://i1.wp.com/faith-happens.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/US-Treasury-Bond-2.gif

            China can sell these bonds on the open market. Also, “freezing” an asset is not seizure. China still owns the frozen asset.

            You make it sound simple, and it is not. You still have to “win” the court case to seize assets.

          • Failure to pay interest and allow sale of assets is tantamount to default and will be treated accordingly by the rest of the world. At the very least US Treasuries will no long be considered liquid and “safe”, causing a sharp rise in liquidations and interest rates.

          • Horst schist. Asset seizures aren’t defaults. If the bonds are seized, they will be sold and the P&I paid.

          • Failure to pay interest

            The interest will continue to be paid. The US debt obligations will continue to be paid to whomever possess the debt instrument. – which simply won’t be China anymore, but rather whomever buys the treasuries at auction. See, that’s how property seizures generally work. The governments seizes an asset and then sells it at auction. The original owner Is give notice and a period of time before the auction happens to pay off whatever liability they owe that caused the seizure in the first place, in which case they get their assets back as long as they pay up before they’re auctioned off.

            Now granted, seizing Chinese assets brings with it a huge risk. No, not over “defaulting” as there is no default being suggested. That risk is that China will reciprocate by seizing American owned assets on made up grounds or even no grounds at all other than simple retaliation. We’ve seen that kind of tit for tat from China before.

        • After the Iranian Revolution in 1979, the United States ended its economic and diplomatic ties with Iran, banned Iranian oil imports and froze approximately 11 billion 1980-US dollars of its assets. Many of the assets were then unfrozen in 1981 after the Algiers Accords were signed and the hostage crisis ended.

          The US can promise to unfreeze ChiCom assets after they make restitution, or the antihuman regime be overthrown by its enslaved subjects, whichever comes first. As an interim government, that freely elected by the liberty-loving citizens of the legitimate Republic of China in Taipei would serve well provisionally until local, provincial and national elections could be held in liberated China.

    • posa April 14, 2020 at 6:00 pm

      Okay Do you think this is the first trade war the USA has Had?

      As for the USA seizing assets Canceling Debt due to reciprocal damages, one needs only to go back to the American civil war. The UK wrote a very large Check to the US government for damages due to the sale of warships to the Confederates.

      https://history.state.gov/milestones/1861-1865/alabama

      And don’t get me started on the Pastry War between France and Mexico

      michael

  38. here you go

    Interview of the expert who lead the MERS rapid response team

    interesting question at the end

    how often do these things happen

  39. Those questioning the constitutionality of sequestering/re-purposing/generally getting creative with China’s holdings:

    There’s and old joke, where a little boy asks his dad why the dog is licking himself. The dad, after running through all the possible explanations – of which there are many – , and reduces them all down to the root explanation:

    “Because he can.”

    If the US wants to make life economically difficult for the Communist Party of China, and there’s general public opinion in that direction, they can. I also doubt that worldwide faith in US treasuries or the dollar will suffer enough to matter.

    • John,
      The US might be able to make life economically difficult for the communist party of china but it
      would be very difficult to do so without inflicting more pain on US citizens. China can easily stop
      buying American grown crops or meat and even worse as others have mentioned stop buying oil
      in US dollars as well as US treasury bonds. The US government has to sell over 1 trillion dollars worth
      of bonds every year just to kept running and that was before the COVID19 crisis. And if China stops
      buying them just who do you think will step in and do so?

      • Izaak Walton April 14, 2020 at 9:14 pm
        Well Izaak, first the Chicom Government had been quietly selling off US Gov bonds prior to this Chicom plague. Sorry no cookie.
        Next not buying USA crops or meat. That didn’t work to well for them last year. Also with the supply chain disruptions and difficulties farmers are having getting crops in and animals to the stock yards we may not have any to sell. Also the Chinese are panic buying food. Sorry no cookie.
        Pharmaceuticals, the processing factories can be on line in a couple months, car companies are now building Ventilators. No biggy kind of like WW2. No cookie again.
        So whats left, hmmm, we buy our machine tools from Japan as well as domestic production. Cheap disposable stuff will be missed by some.
        Washing machines refrigerators and such we can build here like we use too Take about a year to get up and running, but its easier to go without a new kitchen mixer then it is to go without food.

        By the way President Trump has been pushing to get manufacturing back to the USA. china can keep its thousand year old eggs!

        michael

      • Didn’t they buy US pork back late November? Pretty sure I saw something in the WSJ that said so, along with mentioning that they own Smithfield now. I suppose they could refuse to buy commodities from a US company they own but I’d be surprised. Given, I believe they had to whack pretty much their nation’s hogs sometime last year, due to an outbreak yet another undesirable disease breaking out, I’d be doubly surprised that they won’t have to buy them from someone.

        Strong push from even liberal circles that what the US should do is abandon China as a pharmaceutical supplier, along with many other products that might be considered necessary for self-sufficiency: will this also make them look for other suppliers of pork, soybeans, etc.?

        • Correction: China’s hog stock has taken a beating from ‘African Swine Flue’, not one of their home-grown diseases:

          “In China, the top global pork consumer, the disease has been devastating. The exact number of hog deaths is not known. Rabobank estimated the country lost up to 55 percent of its pig herd last year. But the Chinese government has reported smaller losses in the country’s $1 trillion hog sector since the first case in August 2018.”

          They’ll buy pork from someone or learn to do without.

          • Wait a minute, if calling the current virus the “Chinese virus” is racists, shouldn’t calling something the “African Swine Flue” also be racists? :p

            They’ll buy pork from someone or learn to do without.

            Indeed.

      • The US might be able to make life economically difficult for the communist party of china but it
        would be very difficult to do so without inflicting more pain on US citizens

        We buy a heck of a lot more stuff from them then they buy from us. A fact you should have picked up on when US and China was going tit-for-tat over tariffs. Did you not notice we were able to raise tariffs on billions more of goods than China was able to do so to us during each round of tariff raising? However great the pain for us, It’ll be much greater for them.

        Buyers generally have the leverage in a trade war. We can buy most of what we use to get from them elsewhere (or start making it here for those things that we can’t) a lot more easily then they can sell all that they use to sell to us elsewhere. There’s very few items (quite close to zero point zero as Dean Wormer would say) we get from them that would be difficult to source from elsewhere or make ourselves

        China can easily stop buying American grown crops or meat

        They could, but they’ll need to buy that food from someone or starve. The U.S. is the world’s largest exporter, by far, of food while China is the largest importer (despite being just as large of a producer of food – that’s the problem with having over a billion mouths to feed). In other word, their appetite for food (no pun intended) is too large relative to the available excess food exports from all the other suppliers for them to easily fully replace what they buy from us, and their geography makes it difficult for them to increase their own home grown food supply sufficiently to fill the gap.

        And if China stops buying them [US bonds] just who do you think will step in and do so?

        China only owns a about 5% of our debt. Who do you think bought up the other 95%? Do you really think the other 95% would stop buying US bonds just because China decides to? Not to mention what dropping US debt would do to the Yuan. There’s reasons why China bought so much of our debt in the first place. Some of it has to do with pegging the Yuan to the dollar to stabilize the Yuan (this is has been common practice for many countries ever since the Bretton Woods Conference in 1944)

  40. “Yeah, I know The Green Berets was historically, geographically and technically flawed…”

    David, sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy the movie, and not come home from seeing 1917 and spend several hours looking at screen grabs trying to work out if the crashed German aircraft is a historically correct for date Albatross D.III, or the not yet in service Albatross D.V before then distracting yourself by pointing out that the two British scouts shown are Camels that were not even in production in April. I mean you should not do stuff like that. It would be weird and next thing you know you will be complaining how Dunkirk is ruined for you because the first Spitfire you see has a C wing.

    So, I have to ask, David, R U OK?

    • Roger that, we are A-OK… Apart from a bit of stir-craziness from being under “house arrest”… 😉

      I have not seen 1917 yet, but I do intend to see it at some point. I just picked up a copy of Midway (2019). I saw it at the theater and loved it.

      The Green Berets has always been one of my favorite movies, from the time I saw it at the theater when I was in 4th grade, right up until today… But, I every time I watch it, I find more mistakes.

      • “The Green Berets has always been one of my favorite movies”

        I first saw that movie while I was in Vietnam. I liked it, too, although it did cause a few snickers in the audience of about 50 on occasion.

        Btw, Puff the Magic Dragon did fly at night. It puts on a pretty good fireworks display!

        One night about 9pm in Phu Bai, Vietnam we got hit by rockets and we could see where they were firing from since I was a permeter guard at that moment in time and they were firing from right in front of my location, so I had a real good seat for this show.

        The rocket launch location was a little highpoint about half a mile outside the perimeter to the west of the base, and we could see the flashes as the rockets fired and then could hear the rockets passing over our heads and into the Phu Bai base behind us, and about that time Puff showed up, and started spraying the launch site, and at first, the mini-gun fire looked like a red line slowly snaking down to the ground (with one red visible tracer round every fifth invisible bullet), but the bullets were coming so fast from the mini-gun that it looked almost like a solid red line “slowly” snaking down towards the ground, and when the bullets hit the ground it looked like a *huge* red fountain erupted with thousands of bullets bouncing off the ground and back into the air. It was like watching a red Roman fountain. Bullets must have been spraying 50 feet into the air. It was a pretty amazing sight. I wouldn’t have wanted to be on the receiving end of one of those attacks!

      • 1917 is a VERY good movie.

        Historically it makes a great colander (I mean seriously a tank stuck in a shell hole and still in one piece? Seriously? Anything that couldn’t be recovered was either pounded into pudding by German artillery to prevent recovery, or pounded into puddling by British artillery to prevent German capture, or both. MOVIE. RUINED.) but the story is raw and incredibly well done. It is about two men being forced to do what is morally right and push themselves to extreme acts of bravery and despite the historical flaws it manages to collect all the chaotic brutality and both the lows and highs of human kindness.

        I am just waiting for the shops to be open properly so I can find myself a nice BluRay of it.

        (also that is not a spoiler – there is a tank. It is in a shell hole. They go past it. Never mentioned or seen again.)

      • Not seen Midway.

        Pretty sure it didn’t get an Australian release and also, having read Shattered Sword I think it would annoy me.

        If you are stuck for reading and have a history slant I would recommend. Pretty much warts and all dissection of the battle with almost a complete lack of bias. The most interesting thing is while it is not told from purely the Japanese point of view, the timeline of the narration is told from the point of view of what the Japanese commanders knew at the time. For example the morning Japanese strike on the islands is described from the launch and forming up of the raid. You get the formations, the raid commanders, the objectives and off the fly. The book then goes on to describe the collection of US counter strikes from the Midway based assets. How did the actual strike go? The book doesn’t discuss this until after the raid chronologically returns because that is when the Japanese commanders finally get a detailed report and can properly assess damage given and taken.

        It may sound minor but receiving the narrative at the same pace as the Japanese commanders really allows you to understand their decision process.

        So… if anyone is light on historical reading. Okay, spoilers, the Japanese lose four carriers, but I recommend it.

  41. David Middleton,
    You are a very good earth scientist (yes, here comes the but)

    BUT inventing a political based new word “ChiCom-19” for Covid-19 is just as silly as using the word Anthropocene in earth science. It just demonstrates that you are not a virologist familiar with the scientific terminology. Your audience wil be limited to your inner circle.

    You are a good earth scientist, so as we say in Holland “Shoemaker stay with your last”

  42. See “The Theodore Roosevelt Fiasco Shows How Paranoid the Pentagon Is about China,” posted by Shogol in the military/veterans blog Task & Purpose over the weekend.

    “Even under wartime conditions, sending the Theodore Roosevelt on a combat deployment right now would be insane, but the Pentagon and the Navy have lost all sense of proportion when it comes to the threat China poses,” Schogol says.

    He concludes with a reference to Stanley Kubrick film “Dr. Strangelove.” “Up next: Expect defense officials to warn the American public that fluoridation is a Chinese communist plot to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.”

    Maybe Mr Middleton should talk to fired US Theodore Roosevelt Commander Crozier about the fact that the US is not at war with China?

    Meanwhile the” elephant walk” in Guam continues, with mass air operations, and F35 flyby’s in Syria could easily trigger a war only Dr. Strangelove would want.

    I hope WUWT is not a poster boy for Dr. Strangelove’s neocons?

    • We aren’t in a hot war with Red China… We are very much in a cold war with Red China.

      The US Navy currently only has 11 aircraft carriers. 12 are required to comfortably maintain 4 carrier strike groups on deployment. 4 are currently deployed, including CVN-71 Theodore Roosevelt. 1 is preparing to deploy, CVN-69 Eisenhower. The other 6 are in maintenance cycles.

      Captain Crozier’s method of communicating that CVN-71 was combat ineffective went outside the chain of command, whether intentionally or not, and made the combat ineffectiveness public knowledge. I don’t necessarily;y think he should be removed from command. I think this needs to be reviewed and, if his chain of command was unresponsive to the ChiCom-19 outbreak on his ship, he should be reinstated and people up the chain of command should be punished.

      • UCMJ covers Crozier’s case.
        1 COVID fatality so far from the USS Theodore Roosevelt 585 of 4860 positive, and the Nimitz and Harry Truman are being sequestered.
        Modli’s famous last words about some kind of “war” shows what paranoia actually does when neocons infest the Pentagon.

        And the most idiotic thing of all is the original “report” of a Wuhan bio weapon came from London’s Daily Mail, woven full cloth into later US press hysteria. See Vanity Fair 23-Jan for the expose. Tracking Patient 0 of the press virus is just are critical, otherwise insanity breaks out.

        Notice the similarity to Blair’s Dodgy dossier that started Iraq, and Steele’s Trump Dossier that started Russiagate?
        Incredible how the Brit’s still play the jolly old “colony”, what?

          • That was Obama’s war, China encirclement.
            The canary in the Pentagon’s corridors is the virus – real geopolitical nuts are putting sailor’s lives at risk, wrecking fleet readiness, chasing shadows from the defunct Cold War.

            President Trump was elected because of “forever-wars”. Let’s see what he says about Crozier.

            It is indeed revealing to see Vanity Fair’s expose of the British “invisible hand”, yet again.

      • “David Middleton April 15, 2020 at 4:04 am

        The US Navy currently only has 11 aircraft carriers.”

        Carrier FLEETS! 11 carriers with all the other ships including subs can total 20 or more in each fleet…

        Not to be pissed about with.

        • They’re not fleets, but groups. Fleets are much larger, as in the Pacific and Atlantic Fleets.

          A carrier group typically consists of the CVN, up to six escorting cruisers and destroyers, possibly one or two subs and noncombat support ships.

          However, our 16 largest non-nuclear amphibious ships would also rate as carriers in any other navy. Amphibious groups are arranged similarly to carrier groups.

          • Yep… LHA’s and LHD’s (Gators) often carry a handful of AV-8B’s or F-35’s. And they can be repurposed as sea control ships, carrying mostly F-35’s.

            It still doesn’t alter the fact that making it public knowledge that 1/4 of our deployed CVN’s is combat ineffective is not a good idea.

          • I doubt it’s combat ineffective. I read the majority of sailors testing positive were asymptomatic. A top-of-the-line ship of war will fight if it has to, even if several people on board are sick. It’s a military ship, after all, not a cruise ship.
            Perhaps the Navy should be building up natural immunity to this thing on other vessels. Offer something valuable to get 5% of the crew of multiple ships, drawn from the healthiest members on each ship, to volunteer to get infected. Start them on zinc, Quercetin and Vits C and D for a few days before exposure, along with some hot/cold showers. Two weeks or so later, they will be ready to return to the ship. Rinse and repeat. This would offer the same benefits as controlled fires, which can tamp down the destructiveness of wild fires.

          • But our carriers often sail in anger during peacetime. In fact, one reason our carriers are such great assets is because they go into battle when we aren’t at war, to prevent a full on war.

          • I 100% agree… But, during peacetime, an epidemic breakout isn’t something you stay at sea with. The problem is that this became public in the worst way possible.

        • A carrier strike group consists of a CVN and 1-2 CG’s, 3-4 DDG’s and an SSN or two. The primary function of the other ships is to protect the CVN. A carrier strike group with a combat ineffective CVN is combat ineffective.

    • “See “The Theodore Roosevelt Fiasco Shows How Paranoid the Pentagon Is about China,” posted by Shogol in the military/veterans blog Task & Purpose over the weekend.

      “Even under wartime conditions, sending the Theodore Roosevelt on a combat deployment right now would be insane, but the Pentagon and the Navy have lost all sense of proportion when it comes to the threat China poses,” Schogol says.”

      Visiting Vietnam doesn’t look like a combat deployment, it looks like public relations work to me.

      If they stayed out at sea on a combat deployment, they would not have become infected with the Wuhan virus.

      The United States can destroy China several times over if it comes right down to it. China’s leaders should probably think about that before doing anything rash.

      Even In a post-apocalyptic world, destroyed in a nuclear war, the United States would fare better than the rest. The Chinese leadership should think about that, also.

      The Chinese leadership hasn’t been used to Americans pushing back on them, for a very long time. The world has changed. They should probably get ready for some pushback, not only from the U.S., but from all the nations they have damaged with their Wuhan virus attack.

      The Chinese leadership has produced a lot of angry people in the world. People who are asking “who, why, and where”. All roads lead to the Chinese leadership.

  43. Just for the record, a scientist at the Wuhan lab says this coronavirus is genetically significantly different from anything they held at the lab.

    Shi breathed a sigh of relief when the results came back: none of the sequences matched those of the viruses her team had sampled from bat caves. “That really took a load off my mind,” she says. “I had not slept a wink for days.”

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

    I wonder what libs will do now that WaPo has taken this up?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/04/14/the-washington-post-goes-rogue-china-lab-in-focus-of-coronavirus-outbreak/#7812070f1ee1

    As for China paying, absolutely yes. Lab or wet markets, they are 100% culpable.
    .

  44. David,
    I am no lover of the Chinese government, but you need to be a bit more cautious before suggesting retaliatory action against China. Quite a lot of the rest of the world is looking at the USA’s very shady history in the development of this virus.
    If this is a naturally occurring virus, you have little case to make against China, so let’s focus on the likelihood that SARS-COV 2 is an engineered designer virus.

    (A) The technology for producing this virus was developed in the good ol’ USA. In 2016 despite the moratorium on dual purpose gain-to-function viruses, a paper was published which described in some detail the creation of a chimera coronavirus, founded on a bat coronavirus, and which bears a striking similarity to SARS-COV 2 especially in terms of the modification of its spike glycoproteins (S proteins) to improve its human pathogenesis. The paper found that the virus attacked human airway cells very efficiently with pathogenesis via ACE2 receptors and that the novel spike protein made it immune to available monoclonal and vaccine antiviral treatments. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/
    (B) You will note that two Chinese virologists, both of whom were attached to the Special Pathogens and Biosafety, Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Wuhan, China, were coauthors of that paper. Both of them returned to China to continue their work at the Wuhan laboratory. One of them, Zhengli-Li Shi, took over as director of research in this area. She is now known in the popular press as the “batlady”. As well as support from the Chinese government, her work has been funded by grants from the NIH, USAID, U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Threat Reduction Agency and U.S. Biological Defense Research Directorate of the Naval Medical Research Center.
    (C) Indian researchers noted something very interesting about the inserts to the spike proteins:-
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338957445_Uncanny_similarity_of_unique_inserts_in_the_2019-nCoV_spike_protein_to_HIV-1_gp120_and_Gag
    “We found 4 insertions in the spike glycoprotein (S) which are unique to the 2019-nCoV and are not present in other coronaviruses. Importantly, amino acid residues in all the 4 inserts have identity or similarity to those in the HIV-1 gp120 or HIV-1 Gag. Interestingly, despite the inserts being discontinuous on the primary amino acid sequence, 3D-modelling of the 2019-nCoV suggests that they converge to constitute the receptor binding site. The finding of 4 unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV, all of which have identity /similarity to amino acid residues in key structural proteins of HIV-1 is unlikely to be fortuitous in nature.”
    (D) There is no evidence whatsoever that any of this research was associated with the production of bio-weapons, and such speculation is counterproductive. It is clear that it was associated with research into immunology, the development of broad-spectrum antiviral agents and specific vaccine and antivirals against HIV.
    (E) The patents on antagonists to the particular spiked glycoproteins (gp 120) are held by the US government, assigned by, inter alia, Anthony S Fauci, who also holds patents on a number of other related treatments. Google “Patents by Inventor Anthony S Fauci” for the full list on JUSTIA. I would note that while many researchers in this area are no doubt driven by the purest of motives, the immense value of an effective vaccine against HIV means that commercial greed cannot be ruled out as one explanation for why the moratorium on dual use gain-to-function virus creation has not stopped in the USA, despite the enormous dangers associated with accidental release of the pathogens, and the clear warning signs from previous leaks.
    (F) Numerous labs in the USA have used bat coronavirus for research. Division of Molecular and Translational Sciences, United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, Fort Detrick is one of them has published several papers on the subject. You will recall that Fort Detrick was closed down in the middle of 2019 because of a failure in its containment system. Your Chinese equivalents are arguing that COVID 19 came from a USA leak and was brought to the WUHAN military games by infected US military personnel. It is unlikely but plausible.
    (G) People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    • “If this is a naturally occurring virus, you have little case to make against China, so let’s focus on the likelihood that SARS-COV 2 is an engineered designer virus.”

      The case against the Chinese leadership is rock-solid. Their moves are documented. Their moves show they were aware they had an infectious disease on their hands and yet knowing this, they still encouraged international flights in and out of China for weeks after they had banned internal air travel.

      The Chinese leadership deliberately pushed this Wuhan virus out into the world. There is no doubt about it.

  45. I refer to everything related to the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19 as ChiCom-19.

    Thank you for that. Every opportunity should be taken to defy the political correctness. And whether or not they manufactured it, they definitely hid it from the world at first & allowed it to quietly get out into it. That’s not far from an overt military attack.

  46. China-bashers couldn’t give a goddam about virus fatalities whether in the Fleet or civilian – what’s driving them really nuts is the collapse of their financial holdings, whether in oil, or worthless WallStreet paper with the lock-down. Let the human herd immunize, they say! Save our holdings!
    That is going to get much worse, and will soon see the true Hjalmar Schacht grin in full public view.

    That was the co-founder of the Bank of International Settlements to handle Versailles Treaty looting of Germany after WWI, who became Hitler’s finance and economics minister, imposing austerity, labor camps, and aggressive war, known as WWII. He grinned right through the Nuremberg trials, the untouchable banker.

    As General Smedley-Butler wrote, War is a Racket serving financial interests. USS Theodore Roosevelt Captain Crozier today let the cat out of the bag.

    COVID19 has put the entire Fleet on notice, armchair geopoliticians!

    Cold Warriors indeed! More like garden gnomes!

  47. Possibly true is not the same as true. For those asserting the virus is man-made or came from a lab (accidentally or on purpose), please provide evidence of those claims.

    True, we should not and must not trust the ChiCom. Any data or research coming from China needs close scrutiny and should by default be considered disinformation. But that doesn’t mean the virus is a lab experiment or bio-weapon.

    • “Possibly true is not the same as true. For those asserting the virus is man-made or came from a lab (accidentally or on purpose), please provide evidence of those claims.”

      It is irrelevant where the virus originated, whether from the wild, or from a lab. What is relevant is what the Chinese leadership did after the Wuhan virus got out into the population, and what they did was deliberately release this virus out into the wider world. That’s what is relevant.

      • It’s very relevant whether it came from a lab essentially donated by France, with French tech inside.

  48. Doubt it was engineered, they had a bunch of SARS-CoV viruses sampled from Bats already, why would they need to engineer one? Good question, they did it anyway, see the debate about creating “chimaeric virus, made up of a surface protein of SHC014 and the backbone of a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and to mimic human disease.” pulished in nature…
    https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787

    Of course they use the above dangerous experiments to confirm the new CoV-19 wasn’t engineered since it has a different genetic backbone to the ones they used in the above experiment, as discussed in nature…
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    Tho that nature article recieves a healthy debunking in this article…
    https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/03/19/china-owns-nature-magazines-ass-debunking-the-proximal-origin-of-sars-cov-2-claiming-covid-19-wasnt-from-a-lab/

    With further Technical Exploration into the Origins of the Wuhan Strain in this article…
    https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/01/31/logistical-and-technical-analysis-of-the-origins-of-the-wuhan-coronavirus-2019-ncov/

    Can we be sure they have these CoV virues in the Wutan lab? Yep.
    How do we know? USAID paid for the research…
    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    But yeah, US Good, China Bad.

  49. FWIW. My tendency would be to believe this is an American operation to cause a financial meltdown making trillions for financial pirates. Using Chinese scientists in Wuhan. The programme ended one day before the virus is estimated to have 1st emerged (using scientific techniques). October 1st.

    ‘Why the Coronavirus Slipped Past Disease Detectives

    In 2009 the U.S. government launched a program to hunt for unknown viruses that can cross from animals to humans and cause pandemics. The project, called PREDICT, was funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development, and it worked with teams in 31 countries, including China.

    Indeed, in September 2019, just months before the COVID-19 pandemic began, USAID announced it would end funding for PREDICT.

    EcoHealth researchers and their partners, including a team at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China, had identified numerous SARS-related coronaviruses in bats and were following up with laboratory experiments on several of them. But, he adds, how and where the SARS-CoV-2 spillover occurred is not known for certain.

    There was an early suspicion that the initial outbreak could have started at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, which was closed on January 1. But “we don’t know if the spillover happened outside the market and then began spreading after it was brought there,” Olival says. It is also unclear if there was an intermediate animal host between the disease-carrying bats and humans.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-the-coronavirus-slipped-past-disease-detectives/

    • “FWIW. My tendency would be to believe this is an American operation to cause a financial meltdown making trillions for financial pirates.”

      This is a ridiculous conspiracy theory. What’s it worth? Nothing.

      • I was simply turning the racism in this thread on its head.

        If something deeply evil happens in the world. I assume it was the Americans.* Particularly in this case when it was an American funded project.

        Two congress people (intelligence committee) were caught selling all their shares immediately after hearing about this virus before anyone else.

        * ‘If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged’.

        Noam Chomsky

          • ‘Communism isn’t a race.’

            I would describe China is a free market capitalist country with a totalitarian government. Thanks to Nixon, Kissinger and Steve Jobs.

            This could be our future.

          • “I would describe China is a free market capitalist country with a totalitarian government. Thanks to Nixon, Kissinger and Steve Jobs.

            This could be our future.”

            I would say you are correct on both counts. If we elect Democrats to power then the “China Model” is definitely in our future. The Democrats like everything about how the Chinese government operates. They want to do it to us just like that. I wonder what my social score would be under that Democrat regime? Probably zero.

        • “Two congress people (intelligence committee) were caught selling all their shares immediately after hearing about this virus before anyone else.”

          Actually, it was four congress people who were “caught” selling stocks, although it is not evidence of American involvement in the Wuhan virus.

          One senator from my State, Jim Inhofe, happens to be one of those people. He sold all his stock back in January when he became the Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman. He said he sold all his stock so that there would be no conflict of interest with any decisions he makes as Chairman. He also sold all his stock long before the intelligence committee hearing where these congress people supposedly got a headsup on the Wuhan virus. So it looks to me like in Senator Inhofe’s case, he is perfectly innocent of the charges. It looks to me like two of the others are also in this category because they did not exercise direct control over their investments. That leaves one Senator with some explaining to do.

          Still, this has nothing whatsover to do with the Wuhan virus or American involvement.

  50. Bioweapons are, in fact, engineered by recombinant DNA splicing to achieve functional enhancements.
    Genomic history analysis of the SARS-CoV-2, which confirm that this was originally a bat virus, explicitly do not trace the recombinant sections of the S protein, because those geness are not yet part of the public record of samples taken from bats. They are, however, well-documented as key elements of HIV, studied by USARMIID and several cooperating/competing military labs.
    https://youtu.be/YK5WRNQOcGg

  51. An interesting take (h/t Limbaugh):

    “Beyond these, there was a darker dimension: the more Beijing cooperated, the less the disease stood to affect other countries. This includes countries China sees as a threat to its existence, like the United States. Why should China suffer the effects of a pandemic while others stayed safe — and increased their strength relative to China — based on China’s own costly experience?”

    https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/did-xi-jinping-deliberately-sicken-the-world/

      • “This boy needs help”

        In this case, Rush is right on the money. Why else would the Chinese leadership deliberately spread this disease all over the world? The Chinese leadership had a big virus problem which was going to set them back, so they figured everyone, including their competitors ought to be set back, too, to keep China in the game. Makes perfect sense to me, especially considering how morally bankrupt the Chinese leadership is. Give me another explanation for why the Chinese leadership did what they did.

        They stopped internal air travel to try to stop the virus in China, but they actively promoted international air travel for weeks after they knew there was a big problem with the virus, and after they had stopped their own internal air travel. They deliberately foisted the Wuhan virus on the rest of the world. They can’t argue their way out of this one.

        • In this case, Rush is right on the money.

          Just a slight quibble in the interest of clarification. Limbaugh didn’t author the piece, Ben Lowsen did. Otherwise, I’m with you Tom, the scenario seems plausible enough.

          Unless contrarians can point to some moral or ethical consideration within Chinese Communism that prevents them from foisting their sufferings upon their worldly neighbors?

  52. “The most likely explanation is natural phenomenon because Chinese markets allow potentially millions of humans to interact with potentially millions of live animals”

    OMG

    That’s just the most UNscientific thing one could write. Who are these buffons?

  53. This virus among many other communist Chinese sins is the last straw. America Europe and Australasia needs a new country for manufacturing and pharmaceuticals. I would nominate India they are a democracy and have tons of people that would be happy to have a good job.

  54. “ChiCom-19” may well be more politically incorrect, but Donald Trump’s “Kung Flu” has a better ring to it, and has the potential to outlive all the other Frankenstein names currently in use, with a little marketing help.

    My modest contribution to this project is to suggest a name for a yet to be designed and fabricated tool for effective social distancing: the “Kung Flu Tutu”, a personal short range warning/defense system that would alert both the bearer and the approaching intruder that the Kung Flu perimeter is about to be penetrated while, ideally, also projecting an automatically deployed, reuseable, self-disinfecting and noninjurious barrier in the appropriate direction(s), as required.

    • This WHO recommendation caught my eye in the report linked above:

      “Avoid unprotected contact with farm or wild animals.”

      What about cats and dogs?

  55. Still the “experts” are unwilling to process a logical conclusion. The Wuhan virus came from the RatG13 in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Its transformation route was Bat – Rat – Human. The paper is blithely unaware that this IS the only reasonable conclusion.
    Does that mean they are “non-experts”?
    Does that mean they are unwilling to make an obvious assessment of facts and evidence?
    Does that mean they are tools for a cover-up of an uncomfortable fact?

    How do they plan to improve the likelihood that this or a similar release of dangerous virus into the public does not happen again if they are unwilling to acknowledge the facts surrounding the release of this one?

    What recommendations can they make for:
    “The dynamics of SARS-Cov-2 are currently unknown, but there is speculation that it also has an animal origin.”?

    And if they cannot do that they are worthless. There are plenty of organizations that can crank out reports on the pathology and timelines of a circulating pathogen.

    It takes very little “expertise” to determine the origin of this virus. Somehow these experts are unwilling to go there. And that directly subverts the value of what they do. They are just another “science committee” unwilling to place blame where it belongs, because it is politically difficult to do.
    I am sure there on members on the WHO that agree with my assessment. The question is whether the leadership will give them a fair hearing, or treat them like the doctors of Wuhan.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.10.20033944v2.full.pdf

    • Russ R. April 19, 2020 at 10:59 am
      Still the “experts” are unwilling to process a logical conclusion. The Wuhan virus came from the RatG13 in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Its transformation route was Bat – Rat – Human. The paper is blithely unaware that this IS the only reasonable conclusion.
      Does that mean they are “non-experts”?
      ———————
      from the reference article
      Bat coronavirus RATG13 (currently most similar to SARS-CoV-2) and Pangolin coronavirus MP789 (suspicious intermediate host of SARS-CoV-2) both had 8824C/28247T. There were near 20,000 base
      distance between these two nucleotide positions, …
      ===
      no rats involved!
      I think that no one really believes that the virus did not start out in Wuhan.

  56. It is worth looking at fig 1 in your ref;
    Supplementary figure 1. The evolution route of SARS-CoV-2 drawn based on T type tracing. RaTG13 was the most possible ancestor of SARS-CoV-2. In this study,the closest strain to RaTG13

    There seems to be 2 missing (unknown vectors) bits in the link

    • Those missing links happened in the lab, by GOF experiments. RaTG13 was in the lab. It was used in GOF experiments to create strains that are injected into lab animals and further mutate through battle with the immune system. The viral mutations that are difficult for the animal to defeat are then further cloned and re-injected in new test animals. The result was SARS-COV-2.
      So they had the parent virus, they have published about the process they use to derive this virus:

      On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

      and the article I sent that you are quoting shows that they got the exact results you would expect them to get. And then it got out into the public and they went into damage control.
      Once the virus was out, and victims were identified at the hospital with a COV type viral pneumonia, their was a 7 day period of data deletion, specimen disposal, and document shredding. Once that was done they announced that they did not have the Wuhan virus in their inventory.
      Kind of odd that they had the only existing known parent of the virus, but not the virus derived from the parent.
      But there it was circulating in a close proximity to the lab.

      I have looked at all the figures, and the text. And it says the COV19 virus came from WIV and they covered it up. And that is why they need an army of trolls to sow confusion to hide their actions. Because they can’t argue the case with evidence and logic.

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