Researcher 'has a problem' with attributing West Antarctic Ice Sheet 'collapse' to human activity

Antarctic_collapseFrom NASA JPL and Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, something that maybe journo-hacktivist Susanne Goldenberg should pay attention to before she writes another screed.

Reports that a portion of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun to irretrievably collapse, threatening a 4-foot rise in sea levels over the next couple of centuries, surged through the news media last week. But many are asking if even this dramatic news will alter the policy conversation over what to do about climate change.

Glaciers like the ones that were the focus of two new studies move at, well, a glacial pace. Researchers are used to contemplating changes that happen over many thousands of years.

This time, however, we’re talking hundreds of years, perhaps — something that can be understood in comparison to recent history, a timescale of several human generations. In that time, the papers’ authors suggest, melting ice could raise sea levels enough to inundate or at least threaten the shorelines where tens of millions of people live.

“The high-resolution records that we’re getting and the high-resolution models we’re able to make now are sort of moving the questions a little bit closer into human, understandable time frames,” said Kirsty Tinto, a researcher from Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory who has spent a decade studying the Antarctic.

“We’re still not saying things are going to happen this year or next year. But it’s easier to grasp [a couple of hundred years] than the time scales we’re used to looking at.”

The authors of two papers published last week looked at a set of glaciers that slide down into the Amundsen Sea from a huge ice sheet in West Antarctica, which researchers for years have suspected may be nearing an “unstable” state that would lead to its collapse. The West Antarctic Ice Sheet is mostly grounded on land that is below sea level (the much larger ice sheet covering East Antarctica sits mostly on land above sea level).

Advances in radar and other scanning technologies have allowed researchers to build a detailed picture of the topography underlying these glaciers, and to better understand the dynamics of how the ice behaves. Where the forward, bottom edge of the ice meets the land is called the grounding line. Friction between the ice and the land holds back the glacier, slowing its progress to the ocean. Beyond that line, however, the ice floats on the sea surface, where it is exposed to warmer ocean water that melts and thins these shelves of ice. As the ice shelves thin and lose mass, they have less ability to hold back the glacier.

What researchers are finding now is that some of these enormous glaciers have become unhinged from the land – ice has melted back from earlier grounding lines and into deeper basins, losing its anchor on the bottom, exposing more ice to the warmer ocean water and accelerating the melting.

In their paper published in Geophysical Research Letters, Eric Rignot and colleagues from the University of California, Irvine, and NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., described the “rapid retreat” of several major glaciers over the past two decades, including the Pine Island, Thwaites, Haynes, Smith and Kohler glaciers.

“We find no major bed obstacle upstream of the 2011 grounding lines that would prevent further retreat of the grounding lines farther south,” they write. “We conclude that this sector of West Antarctica is undergoing a marine ice sheet instability that will significantly contribute to sea level rise in decades to come.”

The region studied holds enough ice to raise sea levels by about 4 feet (Pine Island Glacier alone covers about 62,000 square miles, larger than Florida). If the whole West Antarctic Ice Sheet were to melt, it could raise the oceans about 16 feet.

glaciers studied by Rignot's research team. Image credit: Eric Rignot
The glaciers studied by Rignot’s research team. Red indicates areas where flow speeds have increased over the past 40 years. The darker the color, the greater the increase. The increases in flow speeds extend hundreds of miles inland. Image: Eric Rignot

In the second paper, Ian Joughlin and colleagues from the University of Washington used models to investigate whether the Thwaites and Haynes glaciers, which together are a major contributor to sea level change, were indeed on their way to collapsing. “The simulations indicate that early-stage collapse has begun,” they said. How long that would take varies with different simulations – from 200 to 900 years.

“All of our simulations show it will retreat at less than a millimeter of sea level rise per year for a couple of hundred years, and then, boom, it just starts to really go,” Joughin said in a news release from the University of Washington.

Many scientists who’ve been studying the region were already braced for the storm.

“It’s gone over the tipping point, and there’s no coming back,” said Jim Cochran, another Lamont researcher with experience in the Antarctic. “This … confirms what we’ve been thinking for quite a while.”

Cochran is principal lead investigator for Columbia University in Ice Bridge, the NASA-directed program that sends scientists to Antarctica and Greenland to study ice sheets, ice shelves and sea ice using airborne surveys. Much of the data used in the new papers came from the Ice Bridge project.

Tinto, also an Ice Bridge veteran, agreed. “I thought it was pretty exciting, because we’ve all been working on this area for a long time, and that potential for the West Antarctic Ice Sheet to behave in this way, we’ve been aware of it for a long time,” she said. “[It] made me want to get in there and look at the rest of the area, what else is going on.”

And there are still many questions about what’s going on: How fast the ocean that swirls around Antarctica is warming, how those ocean currents shift, and to what extent that is influenced by global warming.

“I have a problem with the widespread implication (in the popular press) that the West Antarctic collapse can be attributed to anthropogenic climate change,” said Mike Wolovik, a graduate researcher at Lamont-Doherty who studies ice sheet dynamics. “The marine ice sheet instability is an inherent part of ice sheet dynamics that doesn’t require any human forcing to operate. When the papers say that collapse is underway, and likely to last for several hundred years, that’s a reasonable and plausible conclusion.”

But, he said, the link between CO2 levels and the loss of ice in West Antarctica “is pretty tenuous.”

The upwelling of warmer waters that melt the ice has been tied to stronger westerly winds around Antarctica, which have been linked to a stronger air pressure difference between the polar latitudes and the mid-latitudes, which have in turn been linked to global warming.

“I’m not an atmospheric scientist, so I can’t evaluate the strength of all of those linkages,” Wolovik said. “However, it’s a lot of linkages.” And that leaves a lot of room for uncertainty about what’s actually causing the collapse of the glaciers, he said.

Researchers have been discussing the theory of how marine ice sheets become unstable for many years, said Stan Jacobs, an oceanographer at Lamont-Doherty who has studied ocean currents and their impact on ice shelves for several decades.

“Some of us are a bit wary of indications that substantial new ground has been broken” by the two new papers, Jacobs said. While ocean temperatures seem to be the main cause of the West Antarctic ice retreat, there’s a lot of variability in how heat is transported around the ocean in the region, and it’s unclear what’s driving that, he said. And, he’s skeptical that modeling the system at this point can accurately predict the timing of the ice’s retreat.

But, he added, “this is one more message indicating that a substantial sea level rise from continued melting of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet could occur in the foreseeable future. In the absence of serious near-term greenhouse gas mitigation efforts, such as an escalating tax on carbon, they may well be right.”

“It starts bringing it a little closer to home,” said Tinto. “It’s a significant amount of change, but something we can start planning for. Hopefully [this will] make people stop procrastinating and start planning for it.”

Cochran agreed: The papers’ message is “that … over the next couple hundred years, there’s going to be a significant rise in sea level, and at this point we can’t stop it.” But, he added, “it doesn’t say give up on trying to cut emissions. … [Just] don’t buy land in Florida.”

###

Source: http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2014/05/23/clock-is-ticking-in-west-antarctic/

h/t to Marc Morano of Climate Depot


 

The two papers in question:

Widespread, rapid grounding line retreat of Pine Island, Thwaites, Smith and Kohler glaciers, West Antarctica from 1992 to 2011, E. Rignot, J. Mouginot, M. Morlighem, H. Seroussi, B. Scheuchl, Geophysical Research Letters (2014)

Marine Ice Sheet Collapse Potentially Underway for the Thwaites Glacier Basin, West Antarctica, Ian Joughin, Benjamin E. Smith, Brooke Medley, Science (2014)

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tadchem
May 26, 2014 12:37 pm

The transition from ‘the grounding line for a glacier is retreating’ to ‘the ice field is melting away’ is a HUGE leap unsupported by logic, observations, or even plausible speculation. It is as heinous an extrapolation as the ones made using “doubling rates” of populations.

May 26, 2014 12:38 pm

“Hopefully [this will] make people stop procrastinating and start planning for it.”

Hey, I’m planning to be dead. The people who are alive will hardly notice it happening during their lifetimes either. And that is IF it happens.
I also think that all the carbophobes will have gone extinct by then because they ran out of disaster scenarios.
In the internet age it just doesn’t seem, well, sustainable to make all the disaster predictions at once when the ice is moving at such a glacial pace. The predictors will have been recorded, widely read, already ridiculed, and de-funded.

Theo Goodwin
May 26, 2014 12:39 pm

‘“I’m not an atmospheric scientist, so I can’t evaluate the strength of all of those linkages,” Wolovik said. “However, it’s a lot of linkages.” And that leaves a lot of room for uncertainty about what’s actually causing the collapse of the glaciers, he said.’
Aha, a wolf among sheep. A skeptic among believers. How long before Wolovik is shunned?

Jimbo
May 26, 2014 12:58 pm

It’s slipping outa control and into the sea! Melt, slip, slide and grow?

Steven Goddard – May 25, 2014
“Antarctic Sea Ice Area Above Normal Every Day For The Past 30 Months”
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/antarctic-sea-ice-area-above-normal-every-day-for-the-past-30-months/

May 26, 2014 1:02 pm

I see that Noerdlinger and Brower, “The Melting of Floating Ice Raises the Ocean Level”, on the website of the former author, seem to still leave the erroneous alarming add on to an otherwise interesting paper, even though the error was pointed out to him long ago.
“The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has volume 26,000,000 km3. Suppose a 5% chunk slid into the sea in a short time period (say a few years). The sea level rise would be about 4 m”,
where the volume of ice used is over 10 times too large for “The West Antarctic Ice Sheet”. Four meters is more alarming than 0.4 meters so let’s go with that.

Jimbo
May 26, 2014 1:13 pm

Here is PIK showing how more snow on Antarctica leads to ice loss. They go onto claim that it’s worse than we thought for sea level rise.

PIK
“Snow piling up exerts pressure on the ice, thus it flows faster to the coast”
http://www.pik-potsdam.de/news/press-releases/archive/2012/more-ice-loss-through-snowfall-on-antarctica

The following papers say no it’s not.
Extreme snowfalls
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/grl.50559/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2012GL053316/abstract
[Note: PIK = Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK)
Pine Island Glacier is usually abbreviated PIG in these type reports. .mod]

Adam
May 26, 2014 1:15 pm

“Researcher ‘has a problem’ with attributing West Antarctic Ice Sheet ‘collapse’ to human activity”? You don’t say. Maybe, just maybe that could be because the researcher knows it’s cr#p?

Robertv
May 26, 2014 1:18 pm

Isn’t it normal that the grounding line is carved away by the moving ice ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord

Svend Ferdinandsen
May 26, 2014 1:18 pm

” ice has melted back from earlier grounding lines and into deeper basins, losing its anchor on the bottom, exposing more ice to the warmer ocean water and accelerating the melting.”
If that is right, then the glacier is in reality a floating iceberg, and can then not change the sealevel no matter if the floating part melts completely.

Editor
May 26, 2014 1:22 pm

If our ancestors 200 years ago had stopped the Industrial Revolution for fear of a couple of inches of sea level rise, would we be grateful?

May 26, 2014 1:30 pm

ehtyler says:
May 26, 2014 at 12:19 pm
“the continual recitation of the government view that Glaciers were melting because of human activity resulting from climate change, warming of the air and sea, was enough to nauseate anyone with the ability to both read and think. Our society is being brainwashed to believe, as science, an assumption that is designed to gain our acceptance of more and more government control.”
Yes, all the National Park websites have this propaganda…
What can be done about it? – have to vote in the politicians that don’t go along with this – good luck with that…

Ray Van Dune
May 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Caught something this morning on NPR about the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) mandating carbon emission reduction standards for commercial aircraft. This looks to be another IPCC, only with the real power to destroy the business of any aerospace company that does not play along. You can bet Chinese manufacturers will be exempt..

MikeUK
May 26, 2014 1:38 pm

Ice shelf melting is just a special case of coastal erosion. Water erodes the base of cliffs, and then chunks break off from time to time. A purely natural process, someone should sue NASA for misrepresentation of science.
The problem is the people that write the press releases, no doubt making exaggerated claims to maximise impact and interest, you see it everywhere in climate science.

Jimbo
May 26, 2014 1:38 pm

Along with the recently announced record cold temp recorded on Earth we have these two papers from this month. Is it worse than we thought?

May 13, 2014
New paper finds most of Antarctica cooled over the past 1,000 years
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/05/new-paper-finds-most-of-antarctica.html
=====================================
May 8, 2014
New paper finds E. Antarctic snow accumulation is at highest levels of past 900 years
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/05/new-paper-finds-e-antarctic-snow.html

I suspect Antarctic researchers spend so much time there on taxpayer dime looking and listening for every creek, snap, crackle and pop. It’s enough to send them insane poor chaps. They should cool down, just like Antarctica.

milodonharlani
May 26, 2014 1:50 pm

Not just Antarctica but the whole planet has been in a long-term cooling trend for at least 3000 years, with some ups like the Roman, Medieval & Modern Warm Periods & downs like the Dark Ages & Little Ice Age Cold Periods.

May 26, 2014 1:58 pm

My prediction is that in a couple of hundred years there will be a huge concern about the drop in sea-level from dramatically increased desalination activities as China, India, Australia, the USA and other countries with sizable desert areas continue their efforts to reclaim that land and grow trees and crops. The impact on our climate will be huge, unprecedented and likely catastrophic. Al Gore, JnrJneJnr is fighting these desalination projects for mankind and the further loss of value of his previously waterfront estates. /s

hunter
May 26, 2014 2:34 pm

That poor grad student is in deep poop for bucking the climate alarmists.
Here is a question that has probably been answered, but I have not seen the answer:
IF the ice mostly already floating, which is what seems to have been described, what will the impact on sea levels be?
Another question:
If Antarctica on balance is gaining ice (not sea pack, but continental ice), how much offset is this to any Antarctic reduction from the W. Antarctic glacier complex that is possibly sliding off in the next several hundred years?

Eugene WR Gallun
May 26, 2014 2:39 pm

After reading the above article I fell asleep at my computer and had this dream about glaciers crashing down into the antarctic waters causing giant freezing tidal waves to sweep the planet wiping out all life. What worries me is that such a catastrophe will undoubtedly be predicted in a peer reviewed paper released next week.
Eugene WR Gallun

Catcracking
May 26, 2014 2:39 pm

If I read correctly, I note that there is a comment that a portion of Antarctica is below sea level where the accumulated ice/snow lays. One question, if that is so, is any of the weight of the ice being carried from the sea as opposed to from the land below sea level?
If so wouldn’t melting have negligible impact on sea level rise?

Latitude
May 26, 2014 2:45 pm

Catcracking says:
=====
“The West Antarctic Ice Sheet is mostly grounded on land that is below sea level”
pretty much…so when it does collapse it’s also going to defy the laws of gravity

May 26, 2014 2:49 pm

J. Philip Peterson says:
May 26, 2014 at 1:30 pm
ehtyler says:
May 26, 2014 at 12:19 pm
“the continual recitation of the government view that Glaciers were melting because of human activity resulting from climate change, warming of the air and sea, was enough to nauseate anyone with the ability to both read and think. Our society is being brainwashed to believe, as science, an assumption that is designed to gain our acceptance of more and more government control.”
Yes, all the National Park websites have this propaganda…
What can be done about it? – have to vote in the politicians that don’t go along with this – good luck with that…
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I was in Glacier Bay a few years ago and picked up a National Parks Services brochure. It actually noted that “glaciers advance and glaciers retreat”. They show NO Glacier Bay in 1680, then a rapid advance of the glaciers in the Little Ice Age around 1750 that scoured out and created Glacier Bay; then the subsequent retreat. I was surprised to see ‘real’ information based on geology and verbal history in the brochure. The pertinent information from the Brochure is here:
http://tinypic.com/r/2me7e5j/8
I don’t know it NPS has changed their brochure but it was there in 2011. However, the verbal diarrhoea is probably mandated. 🙂

May 26, 2014 2:58 pm

Glaciers have been slipping into the sea for a long time. It’s sorta what they do, gravity and sliding downhill and so on. It would be unusual if a glacier STOPPED sliding into the sea. The only real question is the rate at which they’re sliding.
So– are these Antarctic glaciers sliding markedly faster than they used to, or not? If they are, what, exactly did we do to start it (no, I don’t accept the idea that my rusty Chevy did it) and what– if anything– could be done to slow it? I have an idea that standing in front of the glacier holding a “Stop” sign and shouting “Whoa!!!” might not work very well.
This could be a gold-mine for an enterprising tug-boat captain. Hook up some tow lines to that ice and haul it to the Middle East, the Sahara, Southern California– all the places where ice and water might be welcomed. Hey, it’s a thought anyway, and if I had a large sea-going tug I just might consider it.

rogerknights
May 26, 2014 3:37 pm

If faster winds are stirring up warmer waters from the deep to melt the ice, won’t that have the effect, in a century or two, of cooling the oceans and slowing or reversing thermal expansion?

May 26, 2014 3:44 pm

Juergen Michele says:
May 26, 2014 at 10:37 am
—————————————-
I had a similar thought lately, due to these recent articles. Watching their video raised that thought again. Early in the video when he focuses on the rate of the glaciers movement, it can be seen that the surrounding higher ground and ridges are also showing movement in the colorized display. Many sections of the higher background are showing reddish color to denote a higher velocity. These higher velocities sections are feeding into slower blue rated sections. Why is the higher land based ice sheet moving faster than the back section {blue rated} of the grounded glacier? That seems to denote what you are asserting that this form of movement is being driven by accumulation increasing the weight load on the higher background.

Reply to  goldminor
May 27, 2014 12:17 am

Why are the glaciers speeding up?
The only reason I can think of is, that the height is increasing.
So the snow pile is growing in Antarctica.
This is not discussed!
Greetings from Bernoulli:
Velocity equals square root 2 times gravitational constant times height.

DR
May 26, 2014 3:47 pm

Same *hit different century.