Even Dr. James Hansen doesn’t believe Keystone XL itself will significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions
Video follows below
At today’s Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Keystone XL, Chairman Robert Menendez (D-NJ) asked well-known climate scientist James Hansen to clarify what he meant when he made his famous “game over” comment, which has been used widely by Keystone XL opponents to justify their erroneous claims. Of course, “game over” has been the main rallying cry for the Sierra Club’s Michael Brune who sat next to Hansen at today’s hearing. In response to Senator Menendez’s question, Hansen explained,
“I’m glad you asked me that question because my comment continues to be misinterpreted […] It has been clear that conventional oil and gas are limited. We’re probably close to peak-oil for conventional oil. The science was clear that we cannot burn all the coal, we’re going to have to phase that out and that’s a solvable problem because coal is used mainly for electricity production and we can generate electricity in other ways including nuclear power, which is carbon-free. Then there is this other huge source of carbon, unconventional fossil fuels and my statement was that if we are going to now open up that other source of unconventional fossil fuels, that’s what tar sands are: the first big step into that unconventional fossil fuels. But the science tells us we can’t do that. We’re screwing our children and our grandchildren and all the young people in future generations if we think we can use those unconventional fossil fuels. The science is crystal clear on that and the world is just ignoring the science. The scientists are saying ‘wait you can’t do that,’ and that’s what I was saying. This is game over if you don’t understand; we have to leave that extremely large amount of carbon in the ground.”
So not even James Hansen, the very person Keystone XL opponents quote incessantly, believes that Keystone XL itself will significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions.
But that’s not all. Senator Menendez followed up on Hansen’s clarification, offering yet another blow to Keystone XL opponents. As he explained,
“So I now have the greater definition. I just personally don’t think that the approval or disapproval of the pipeline is a decline in global leadership, nor do I believe that the specific approval or disapproval is necessarily game over. I understand what you’re saying, there is a broader context which is whether you have access to this fuel and you start down that road. I just wanted to refine this as it relates to the question before the committee, which is the question of approval of the pipeline.”
Of note, this question came after the State Department, numerous energy and climate experts, and Obama administration officials disputed activists’ claims. Looks like it’s officially “game over” for opponents’ “game over” claims.
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Chad Wozniak says:
March 13, 2014 at 8:17 pm
This lawsuit from the House of Representatives to compel him to obey the law is a pathetic exercise in rank stinking cowardice if ever there was. They could at least have shaken things up a little by introducing articles of impeachment. He’s certainly done enough to warrant that.
Chad,
I agree with much of what you said. First things first, though. We need to focus on making the largest conservative gains in local, state, and federal offices possible in the coming November 2014 elections. Starting Articles of Impeachment now against Our Dear Capon would only allow him to play the martyr and claim racism… and that would rally his supporters in the main stream media! For the short term, better to let the continuing quagmire of ObamaKare suck all who supported it down into their self made maelstrom, as we come into the Nov 14 elections.
In the mean while, I’m again working with local grassroots groups in the south Seattle area to elect the best conservative candidates we can get at local and state levels. I strongly urge you and similarly minded folks to do the same. It’s essential that we do more than just ‘talk’ about our concerns on blogs. We have achieved a tenuous conservative control of the Washington State House and hope to expand conservative gains again this year. If we can make it happen here on The Left Coast, it can happen anywhere, with hard work.
Mac
I’m sorry for the radical left wing link.
The leaders of the opposition to the KXL are acting very cynical.
I do have a question:
Why run that picture of Homer Simpson with the post?
That is really unfair to Dr. Hansen.
I’d like to extend a personal Thank You! to our Alberta neighbors, for having the courage to continue cleaning up the biggest oil spill on the planet, even in the face of Hansen’s et.al.Luddite attacks! Bravo!!
And the fact that you are making a profit from this horrific environmental disaster warms the cockles of my Scottish ancestors hearts!!!! That’s the kind of ‘sustainability’ I can really support.
Keep up the excellent environmental work, Alberta! You’re preparing a much cleaner and safer environment for all children on Planet Earth.
Mac
James Hansen said, (in your quote)
“. But the science tells us we can’t do that. We’re screwing our children and our grandchildren and all the young people in future generations if we think we can use those unconventional fossil fuels. The science is crystal clear on that and the world is just ignoring the science.”
so how does that mean, as you quote later, So not even James Hansen . . . believes that Keystone XL itself will significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions.
answer. . .it doesn’t!
in fact, earlier in his opening statement he said,
If we build this expensive pipeline, it will facilitate the extraction of much more than if we don’t build it. As soon as you put a price on carbon that is significant and rising, one of the first things that falls off the table is tar sands, and Canada knows that, that is why they are so desperate to get the United States to approve this. “If we don’t approve it, a lot of that tar sands won’t be developed.“
Here is the link to the clip
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4487094/hansen-xl
not sure if the embed works.
Big Mining, Big Oil, Big Money – all with the CAGW program:
Vale, Braskem to enter cap-and-trade simulation in Brazil
SAO PAULO, March 13 (Reuters) – Some of the largest Latin American corporations including mining company Vale and financial conglomerate Itau Unibanco, will take part in a nine-month simulation of a cap-and-trade system in Brazil starting on Friday…
https://www.pointcarbon.com/news/reutersnews/1.4497500
Braskem is the largets petrochemical company in Latin America!
Braskem: Manifesto on Climate Change
We must Mature to be Green
The main cause of climate change around the world, greenhouse gases (GHGs) represent a threat to life and are currently an immense environmental problem. According to International Panel of Climate Change (IPCC) data, the global temperature has increased by more than 0.7oC since the beginning of the industrial era.
The consequences of this trend, such as water shortages and increased problems relating to health, hunger, etc., could have serious impacts on life on this planet, especially humankind…
Click here to read the Braskem Manifesto on Climate Change.
(MANIFESTO BEGINS WITH)
Being Green is a matter of Maturity
Maturity is being aware of one’s responsibilities…
http://www.braskem.com.br/site.aspx/braskem-manifesto-Climate-Change
hunter says:
March 13, 2014 at 9:17 pm
Why run that picture of Homer Simpson with the post?
That is really unfair to Dr. Hansen.
hunter,
Being mistaken for Dr. Hansen is an insult to Homer J. Simpson!
D’OH!
This could be a “tell” that Obama will give it the green light.
If it does turn out that we’re anywhere near “peak oil” today — and that’s pretty much discredited, or why did “The Oil Drum” blog close down — that just means we’d better start building SPS or other permanent solutions to energy shortages.
For Man to return to a pre-industrial economy — or even to allow very much of the world to remain that way — is a lot more unacceptable than any other conceivable doom. Sooner or later the few remaining die-hard greens who can’t accept that fact are going to need to be treated as the traitors to our species they are.
@Mac the Knife –
I would agree that the MSM would come out in full ass-kissing frenzy if Congress were to challenge his Hitlerness before the elections. You may well be right that this would help him, although with the public now better able to see and feel firsthand more of what he is doing, and the obviously increasing reliance on the web for news, as opposed to the MSM dinosaurs, it still seems thinkable to go ahead with a move to impeach – especially if folks like Dr. Ben Carson, Tim Scott and Allen West joined the effort (can’t cry racism there).
My biggest concern is that der Fuehrer will be able to manipulate the election much as he did in 2012 by wholesale attacks on and interference with opponents and outright voter fraud (like the Black Panther intimidation and the 30,000 to 0 vote in a nonexistent precinct, in Pennsylvania) – and I really do think he would not be above attempting to cancel the elections. There are quite a few of his acolytes who would love to see him declare himself president for life, just as Chavez did in Venezuela, and I am certain he has studied intensely how Chavez amassed his power.
It will help, sadly, if this winter continues as rough as it has been into April and May and we have a poor summer – that will further soften the quicksand upon which the alarmists’ case rests – but at an awful human cost that no one (except people like Holdren, methinks) would want.
That doesn’t follow from what Hansen is quoted as having said. He’s an idiot. Let him have full credit for it.
Martin 457 says:
March 13, 2014 at 9:15 pm
I’m sorry for the radical left wing link.
Martin 457,
No apology needed. We all need to ‘look the pig in the eye’ now and then! I found the rabid comments there enlightening. Excerpt follows from ‘Frank’:
Frank
March 12, 2012 at 3:41 am
He better re-think his position because this pipeline is not going to happen. If our corrupt government thinks it can pull this off, they also better re-think their position. This pipeline will create the first real revolution in this country, guaranteed. For those of you that are morally against it, prepare yourself for a battle.
That poor Frank fellow sounds on the verge of violence, don’t you think? As a peace loving man, I’ve also found the following maxim to be instructive: If you open the door to violence, don’t complain if it gets too rough for you! I doubt that Frank has met that type of determined ‘morality’ yet, but it is time he did.
Poor Frank is a bit confused on his US history as well it seems… We had a bit of a revolutionary scrum with the Kings Men (and hired Hessian mercs) a couple of centuries back. That (poor Frank) was the definitive ‘first’ real revolution in the US of A. Guaranteed.
Thanks for the link, Martin! The article was instructive and the ignorant comments were revealing.
Mac
jai mitchell says:
March 13, 2014 at 9:28 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your comment is irrelevant. Huge Rail terminal facilities are under construction, several other pipeline projects are in the works, most of Keystone is already built, the oil will flow whether KXL is approved by Obama or not. Right now, part of our problem in Canada is to get the railway companies to deliver our last years bumper crop of grain to port to go to countries in need of food instead of other products (like oil). Get your priorities right. Building Keystone takes pressure off other infrastructure.
$27 per barrel. Is what the Tar Sands Oil costs. From Wikipedia: “Since Great Canadian Oil Sands (now Suncor) started operation of its mine in 1967, bitumen has been extracted on a commercial scale from the Athabasca Oil Sands by surface mining. In the Athabasca sands there are very large amounts of bitumen covered by little overburden, making surface mining the most efficient method of extracting it. The overburden consists of water-laden muskeg (peat bog) over top of clay and barren sand. The oil sands themselves are typically 40 to 60 metres (130 to 200 ft) deep, sitting on top of flat limestone rock. Originally, the sands were mined with draglines and bucket-wheel excavators and moved to the processing plants by conveyor belts. In recent years, companies such as Syncrude and Suncor have switched to much cheaper shovel-and-truck operations using the biggest power shovels (100 or more tons) and dump trucks (400 tons) in the world.[27] This has held production costs to around US$27 per barrel of synthetic crude oil despite rising energy and labour costs.[28]”
Nuclear is the direct and indirect cause of thousands of deaths since the first Atomic Bomb nuclear would be his answer to CO2. The USA had Three-Mile Island, the Russians had Chernobyl and Japan had its disaster and their stuff is still washing up on our shores and killing wildlife till this day.
At the present accident rate, I don’t see his logic. Green energy plants are closing up and China is shutting down most of theirs. Dr. Watts has a great page on the wind energy.
Most unfortunate to have him as a star witness.
I would very much like to know at what point will cheats and liars like Hansen et al have devalued their opinion so much that they will be ignored by all. Just how much fakery and foolery can they get away with?
This is what ‘Game Over’ looks like for most people.
Annual household energy bills could rise by more than £600 within seven years so power companies can keep the lights on.
In a new forecast, consumer champion Which? has predicted energy companies will need to spend £118bn on new infrastructure between now and 2020.
This would include building new power stations, replacing grids and building wind farms as part of a drive to sustain Britain’s power supply and cut down on carbon emissions.
Which? believes this cost will inevitably be passed on to consumers, and that households and businesses will foot the bill.
This would mean that the average bill would exceed £2,000 a year even if wholesale costs of gas and electricity remain stable – an annual rise of £640 per household.
http://news.sky.com/story/1225709/annual-energy-bills-to-rocket-by-2020
The best legacy we can leave for the worlds future generations is economic development across the globe. Prosperous economies are better for the environment….poor economies are bad news for the environment. Prosperous economies lead to better education, better health and lower birth rates . The key to prosperity is cheap, reliable energy. With current technologies that means a big role for fossil fuels. Burn them lean, mean and clean but burn them . Deliberately emasculating current ‘First World’ economies via loony energy policies will slow down global demand and thus slow down global economic growth…..thats both a shocking legacy for the Worlds future generations and seriously bad news for the environment. Being pro fossil fuel is therefore pro planet, pro people and pro a better life for all…the extra CO2 in the atmos and its miniscule impact on global temps. is of little consequence compared to that…..
Nero fiddles while Rome burns… Our local Cdn natural gass supplier, the largest in these parts, has just put in a rate increease request to government for approval, amounting to a 40% hike for the average homeowner.in southern Ontario. Gas bills of $1000pa are expected to rise to $1400. The provincial govt here has already predicted (ie will permit) electricity rates to rise by 42% by 2016. The impact of these changes will be catastrophic for a large segment of the society here and will complete depress the economy. There is no capcity in the economic structure to absorb energy hikes of this scale, and of course, the largest hit group will be the middle class and the aging baby boomers. The children will never be able to leave home as we will soon be looking at 3-4 income families in order to keep a roof over one’s head and support the tax cost to pay for those who can’t.
There will be no need for carbon taxes to shrink the econmy and standard of living back to the early 1800s level. Unaffordable energy for most of the northern hemisphere will do it all. Those living in the sub-tropics better get ready, the population density is going grow beyond comfort sooner than you think.
Well, Hansen’s models seem to work both ways, predicting an ice age in the seventies or a fire age in the nineties, depending on the modeler´s mood. So, who cares?
Paul Pierett,
Lumping atomic bombs with nuclear power, and implying three mile island was like Chernobyl is deceptive on your part. Was your intent to deceive?
Martin 457 says:
March 13, 2014 at 8:36 pm (replying to RACookPE1978)
True. The Keystone pipeline WILL go north – south, connecting to already-existing pipelines both north and south of the new connection.
What I was perhaps not clear on is that – until the KXL connection north-south through the middle of the country completes – the oil sands crude product must go BY Buffet’s TRAINS either east or west to ports to be stored and trans-shipped to refineries on the south coast (TX, LA, AL, etc.) or on the west coast, or overseas.
So, until the KXL completes, the Canadian oil is flowing through union-paid ports and train-stations on the east and west coasts.
If you were having a discussion regarding apples, and someone gave a prepared speech on spagetti, you would dismiss it as off topic. When they are having a discussion about the transport of Canadian oil, Dr. Hansen continues to discuss “tar”, it is not the same, and a scientist who cannot tell the difference is not very bright.
Does anyone know how much stock in Railway companies the foundations that support the fight against the Keystone XL hold?
Grant A. Brown says:
March 13, 2014 at 3:42 pm
“The point here seems to be that Keystone itself does not spell “game over,” but rather tapping into all of the unconventional oil and gas in the world would spell game over, and Keystone is the first step down that path.”
This is the trouble with what I will grace as “debate” on the issue. It is far from the first step. SunCor has been producing it since 1967. Oh and fracking began in a Kansas gas field in 1947. Prior to hyrdraulic fracturing (fracking), a more destructive tech was used: torpedoing which was down hole blasting with nitroglycerine. This technique was first used in 1864! Fracking is much more benign and precise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Oil_sands_production
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_%28petroleum%29
I can see why companies saw the need for such secrecy that is no longer possible. Imagine where we would be in terms of transportation or even living if that darn fracking was widely known over the last 150 years!!