By WUWT regular “justthefacts”
In researching the use of tidal forces in long range weather forecasting, I came across an interesting August 30th, 2010 Associated Press/ MSNBC article based on interviews with Farmer’s Almanac Editors Sandi Duncan and Peter Geiger, and Ed O’Lenic from NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center:
“Good news, winter haters: After record snowfall in the mid-Atlantic and unusually cold weather down South, the Farmers’ Almanac is predicting a “kinder and gentler” winter.
After eyeing the skies, tidal action and sunspots, the folks at the 194-year-old publication say in their 2011 edition going on sale Monday that it’ll be cold but nothing like last winter, when 49 states saw snow and it got so cold in Florida that iguanas fell out of trees.
“Overall, it looks like it’s going to be a kinder and gentler winter, especially in the areas that had a rough winter last year,” said managing editor Sandi Duncan.”
“The Farmers’ Almanac, which claims 80 to 85 percent accuracy and says it correctly forecast heavy snow in Middle Atlantic states last winter, bases its predictions on a secret mathematical formula using the position of the planets, tidal action of the moon and sunspots.
Ed O’Lenic from NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center said the scientific community doesn’t accept tides, planetary alignment and sunspots as effective predictors of temperature or precipitation, but he stopped short of calling the almanac’s meteorological methods a bunch of hooey.
“In science you have to have an open mind. Someday, someone could conceivably find some scintilla of evidence that it’s useful,” O’Lenic, chief of the operations branch, said of the almanac’s methodology. “For the time being, we have to stick with what produces results for us.”
“For the record, NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center anticipates a warmer-than-normal winter for the mid-Atlantic and Southeast and colder-than-normal weather in the Northwest. That puts it at odds with the almanac, which calls for mild temperatures in the Northwest and cold in the Southeast.”
Here’s the October 21, 2010 Winter Outlook from NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center:
“The Pacific Northwest should brace for a colder and wetter than average winter, while most of the South and Southeast will be warmer and drier than average through February 2011, according to the annual Winter Outlook released today by NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center.”
“Northeast and Mid-Atlantic: equal chances for above-, near-, or below-normal temperatures and precipitation. Winter weather for these regions is often driven not by La Niña but by weather patterns over the northern Atlantic Ocean and Arctic. These are often more short-term, and are generally predictable only a week or so in advance. If enough cold air and moisture are in place, areas north of the Ohio Valley and into the Northeast could see above-average snow”
“Florida: drier than average, with an equal chance for above-, near-, or below-normal temperatures.”
“Central U.S.: equal chances of above-near-or below normal temperatures and precipitation”
Here’s Accuweather’s September 8, 2010 forecast:
“Wintry Battle Zone But No Snowmageddon
In general, the East Coast will be granted a reprieve from the tremendous snowfall that caused 2009-2010’s winter to be dubbed “snowmageddon.”
This does not mean a free pass for the Northeast. Bastardi predicts late November and December could get winter off to a fast start in the East, with a major thaw coming for much of the country in January.
Bastardi makes the early cold connection between this year’s active hurricane season and his winter forecast.
He said that years that see significant landfall, such as 1995, 2008 and 2005, usually also have cold for much of the eastern and central portions of the nation in December.
He said this year from the central Rockies to the Northeast a higher variance of temperatures will be present – “greater-than-normal swings between winter’s coldest and warmest days.” The conflicting warm and cold air masses contributing to these temperature fluctuations have placed this area into what Bastardi calls the “Wintry Battle Zone.”
Despite the wild swings in temperatures, cities like New York, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., will still have near-normal snowfall. To put this in perspective, New York City receives an average of 28.4 inches of snowfall during winter.”
Here is the Old Farmer’s Almanac Atlantic Corridor Annual Weather Summary :
“Winter will be colder and drier than normal, on average, with below-normal snowfall in New England and above-normal snowfall elsewhere. The coldest periods will be in mid-December, January, and mid-February. The snowiest periods will be in early January and mid- and late February.”
Hmmm, “with below-normal snowfall in New England”. According to this January 28, 2011 Boston Globe article January 28, 2011 Boston Globe article “In Somerville, New England’s most densely populated city, some snowbanks are so tall that they deflect the plume of snow cleared by plow trucks and send it sliding back down to the street, said Michael Meehan, a city spokesman. Between storms, crews have been trying to clear snow piles and dump them on basketball courts, while the real estate trust planning a 50-acre redevelopment at Assembly Square has offered the city private land for use as a snow farm.”
In terms of The Old Farmer’s Almanac forecast that “The coldest periods will be in mid-December, January, and mid-February.” here are Weekly Mean Temperatures for the Northeast:
Week-Ending | Mean Temperature | Anomaly
20101204 | 33.76 | 0.90
20101211 | 26.15 | -4.02
20101218 | 23.80 | -4.01
20101225 | 22.68 | -3.12
20110101 | 24.45 | 0.35
20110108 | 24.73 | 2.00
20110115 | 22.28 | 0.37
20110122 | 20.86 | -0.54
20110129 | 19.89 | -1.64
20110205 | 19.93 | -2.15
20110212 | 20.84 | -2.22
20110219 | 25.70 | 1.20
20110226 | 26.21 | -0.20
20110305 | 28.28 | -0.41
Source: National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) – National Climatic Data Center (NCDC):
I guess that you could call December 5th – 25th “mid-December”, but the first half of January had the warmest anomaly of an otherwise freezing winter and “mid-February” i.e. Feb 13th – 19th, was actually the only positive anomaly in the month of February.
Here are all of the Old Farmer’s Almanac Regional Annual Weather Summaries:
Note that you can verify the veracity, or lack thereof, of many of the weather predictions on the new WUWT US Weather History Reference Page:
And let us not forget about the UK MET Office who are apparently still trying to figure out what their forecast was, or at least what they renamed it and where they buried it on their website;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/04/the-met-office-bullhockey/
but, according to this October 28th, 2010 article in the Telegraph;
“Although the Met Office no longer issues long-term forecasts, their latest data suggest a high probability of a warmer winter for London, the East of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The South West, Wales and most of the North of England are less likely to enjoy such relatively pleasant temperatures but still have a 40 to 60 percent chance of being mild.
The statistics were generated by the Met Office’s new £33million supercomputer built by IBM.
Forecasters used it to analyse how likely temperatures and rainfall were to be above normal for winter but not how far above.
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The average temperature for winter from 1971 to 2000 is 3.7C (39F). However, last year was 1.5C (35F), meaning anything above the 30-year normal this winter would be a marked improvement with far less chance of snow and ice.
As well as the milder winter, the computer concluded that almost all of Britain had a 40 to 60% of being drier than normal, with only the south coast more likely to see normal amounts of rain.”
How bad was the MET Office’s forecast? Per this March 4th, 2011 Article in Farmers Weekly Interactive;
“Britain’s worst winter weather for 100 years will cost farmers more than £100m, a Farmers Weekly investigation has revealed.
Farmers across the country have been left counting the cost of lost crops, collapsed livestock buildings and burst pipes.
Rural insurers said 2010 would go down in history as the worst year on record for cold weather claims.
Among the worst-hit are England’s 4000 sugar beet growers. Temperatures plunging to -13C in December followed by a mild and wet January left £52m of sugar beet rotting in the fields, according to Farmers Weekly calculations based on British Sugar figures.”
In summary, the long range forecasts of the Farmer’s Almanac, NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center, the Old Farmer’s Almanac, Accuweather and the UK MET Office all appear to be suspect. Why?
“I notice that no one bothers to
talk about how I was concerned about the winters of 16-17 and 17-18 with low solar and northern latitude volcanic activity as my big worry. Problem is one does not have the charts needed to form a concrete idea on these things, but at the least one could see my concern.”
I watched every video and read every post by Joe concerning the winter of 2010-11. He absolutely was worried about those years and devoted at least one full video to the subject, and how they could be indicative of a tougher winter ahead. I think it’s ridiculous to equate his generally superb forecasts with UKMET and The Farmer’s Almanac.
“The future is unknown and will remain unknown. 3-5 day forecasts deal with the present.”
This is just plain ignorant.
As to why the predictions are so poor, I recommend “Future Babble” by Dan Gardner, based on Dr. Philip Tetlock of Univ. of Cal’s work.
When it comes to predicting the future, the best and wisest of humankind are blind men groping in the dark
justthefactswuwt @ur momisugly Joe Bastardi:
“We shouldn’t have to find and read every forecast you’ve made to be able to evaluate your skill. ” “Can you please provide us with ongoing access to a table of all of your current and several years of prior predictions, including notations of each time a prediction was made or updated, the “Reality” that actually occurred, your fair assessment of the accuracy of each of your predictions, your “level of accuracy in percentage terms” and the change in your skill at various types of forecasts over the last several years?”
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justthefactswuwt you are being completely unreasonable here.
Ridiculously unreasonable.
Bastardi is one of the brightest long rangers on the planet and quite frankly….even if he wasn’t…he is not obligated to provide you anything.
Maybe if you had followed his forecasts VERY closely over the past 7 years like some of us have, you would not even need to ask the stupid question that you ask.
The burden to figure it all out (join Accuweather and subscribe to their archives) is on you.
Bastardi has DONE his work. Where’s yours?
Would be interested to see if you could forecast….any better?
Yeah. I thought so.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
dp says on April 9, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Well, then I think you have wasted the mental exercise. The current view is that it was the closing of the isthmus of Panama that lead to the current period of ice ages.
justthefactswuwt @ur momisugly Joe Bastardi:
“We shouldn’t have to find and read every forecast you’ve made to be able to evaluate your skill. ”
=========================
Who is “we”? You don’t speak for me, sir, so count me out on that “we”.
And, to turn your observation around:
“We” shouldn’t have to find and verify every blog entry you’ve made to evaluate YOUR skill.
I mean really, dude. I certainly respect your posts in the past…but you are over the top on this one.
You need to pick your battles a little more wisely.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
William Gray,
April 9 2011 4:14
In reply to your question, would you be referring to Inigo Jones and later on, his assistant Lennox Walker ?
Bastardi nailed the 2009 -2010 USA winter forecast beginning back in July of 2009 when the CFS and the last time I checked at that time was predicting nothing of the sort…
It was pretty damn good.
And on a side note….Joe B being a good scientist….will be the first to admit to his mistakes (like January 2006).
But the conclusion of this thread…which conflates the model-driven asleep-at-the-wheel approach of the UKMET and their failed forecasts over these last years….with the down and dirty Joe B forecasts…as if they were equal….is completely wrong.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
art johnson says:April 9, 2011 at 8:15 pm
I think it’s ridiculous to equate his generally superb forecasts with UKMET and The Farmer’s Almanac.
Today we don’t seem to be measuring and tracking long range forecast accuracy in any standardized manner, thus it is very difficult to compare, much less equate. You seem to think Joe Bastardi’s Accuweather forecast is superior, but dscott says: April 9, 2011 at 4:07 pm argues that the Farmers Almanac forecast was also accurate. How can we objectively compare the Farmers Almanac forecast to the Accuweather Forecast to see which one has better quality?
savethesharks says: April 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm
justthefactswuwt you are being completely unreasonable here.
Ridiculously unreasonable.
Why is it unreasonable to ask for a standardized accounting of forecasting accuracy and skill? I expect it out of NOAA’s CPC and the MET, why is it unreasonable to expect it out of Accuweather/Bastardi?
Demand all of the accountability you want out of a publically funded organization, such as UKMet and NOAA.
Accuweather is privately funded…and from that standpoint…they do not owe you SQUAT!
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
savethesharks says: April 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Bastardi has DONE his work. Where’s yours?
Would be interested to see if you could forecast….any better?
Yeah. I thought so.
That’s a pretty strange response to a call for transparency and openness… In terms of my work, I’ve built the WUWT Atmosphere Page, Geomagnetism Page, Ocean Page, US Weather History Page as well as refined and developed the WUWT Solar Page, ENSO (El Nino/La Nina Southern Oscillation) Page andSea Ice Page
What have you done?
Would be interested to see if you could forecast….any better?
Sort of. I am already well into the development of the: WUWT US Weather Prediction Pagewhich will bring together an array of weather forecasts, allowing for easier comparisons across. I also have the:US Climate History PageGlobal Climate Indicators Page in progress.
I guess what I am reacting to here is your broad-brush approach as it all of these entities are equal.
They are not. Some are privately funded.
As a taxpayer, you can make all the demands on the taxpayer-funded science organizations you want (and you should and I support it and I demand the same thing!).
But for the private science organizations (such as Accuweather) you are not a contributor and most likely not a shareholder and so theoretically, you have no say so.
Heck….they could proclaim in their forecast, that the sky is purple, and not blue…and that is their prerogative.
They could even proclaim that unicorn populations in the Arctic are the cause of the the fluctuations of the AO over time…
They may be wrong, and they may lose business because they are wrong…but that is the free market system.
But even if they are wrong….they owe you nothing.
Capice?
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
savethesharks says: April 9, 2011 at 9:12 pm (Edit)
Who is “we”?
The other commenters on this thread who asked for the same information.
You need to pick your battles a little more wisely.
You need to fight your own battles and let Joe fight his. He is plenty capable…
justthefactswuwt says:
April 9, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Thank you for all your efforts. They are much appreciated.
Those hard-earned efforts [which we all benefit from] are all red herrings in this argument
I was challenging your PRESUMPTION of Joe B, and the conflation with NOAA, UK Met.
YOUR logical error….not mine.
If you want openness and transparency…then you are in good company with him.
At this point, perhaps after apologizing to him, you guys could be good friends.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
justthefactswuwt says:
“You need to fight your own battles and let Joe fight his. He is plenty capable…”
=====================================
That is also a red herring.
But glad to hear you admit and then we can agree that Joe B is “plenty capable.”
Beyond that, I can take up for whoever I see fit, however I see fit, and will continue to do so, as I see fit.
[And you can’t demand accountability for it because I am not publicly-funded LOL.]
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
They’re called wolly bears, caterpillars Mr. Walker. They’ve always been jet black where I live, and for as long as I’ve lived there only a couple of winters haven’t been cold as a witch’s teat. Now how cold is a witch’s teat??? Officially
Long term predictions will presumably require the ability to predict several key game changers a few months in advance, unless conditions are such that few game changers will affect the outcome to any great extent.
If you assume that game changers include:
1. CMEs and solar flares.
2. Oceanic shifts in ENSO.
3. Volcanoes.
4. Blocking highs.
5. AO indices.
Etc etc.
There will obviously need to be some pretty deep understanding of the sun, the oceans, the atmosphere etc etc and how they all interact, dynamically.
I suspect that you will be able to predict extreme oscillations from means, but it is questionable whether we have nearly enough data, models and theories to cover less extreme scenarios. Particularly if small changes in key parameters have global effects on climate, how easy is that ever going to be to predict?
Yes keith Minto thankyou. Its interesting to observe that the Farmers Almanac used the planets positions as well. see interveiw with his son at my previous post.
Daily maps posted three years ago and for the next three years at name link. and in case you remember this little blurb..
Richard Holle says:
Spring tornado outbreak forecast posted on the 2nd, below the verification updates,
Cost to public a couple clicks of the mouse,
to compare to my sites maps so far;
2-24=27 tornado reports 110224_rpts.html
2-25=1 tornado report 110225_rpts.html
2-27=18 tornado reports 110227_rpts.html
2-28=18 tornado reports 110228_rpts.html
3-05=10 tornado reports 110305_rpts.html
3-06=3 tornado reports 110306_rpts.html
3-08=19 tornado reports 110308_rpts.html
3-09=25 tornado reports 110309_rpts.html
3-10=4 tornado reports 110310_rpts.html
3-14=2 tornado reports 110314_rpts.html
3-18=1 tornado report 110318_rpts.html
3-19=1 tornado report 110319_rpts.html
3-21=1 tornado report 110321_rpts.html
3-22=19 tornado reports 110322_rpts.html
3-23=8 tornado reports 110323_rpts.html
3-26=8 tornado reports 110326_rpts.html
3-29=5 tornado reports 110329_rpts.html
3-30=1 tornado reports 110330_rpts.html
3-31=6 tornado reports 110331_rpts.html
4-4=63 tornado reports 110404_rpts.html
Richard Holle says:
March 2, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Tornado production is a result of Lunar declinational tides pulling air masses from more equatorial areas into the mid-latitudes, so the peak production times when they form can be predicted as the periods from Maximum North culmination to three days after, a couple of days when the moon crosses the equator headed North, and as the moon reaches maximum South declination and several days after.
These effects are due to the production of the primary and secondary tidal bulges in the atmosphere, that arrive at the same time as the ion content of the air masses reaches a local maximum. Between the induced charge differential between the +ion concentrations riding on the more equatorial sourced air mass, established ahead of the dry line front of -ion concentrated more polar air mass, that sweeps in from the West, forcing the precipitation into the rapidly moving narrow band of severe weather from which the tornadoes form on the trailing edges.
The periods when these effects will be most likely to occur this spring,
2-25/28 for three days, which we just had, around max South.
3-5/7 slight chance of small outbreak
3-12/17 starting in Arkansas through Kentucky and the Ohio river valley
3-25/30 Starting Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas through Ohio river valley the beginning of a long period of very wet activity most of April.
4-5/8 start up of activity
with the re-enactment of the 1974 outbreak most possible in the period
4-8/13 Maps of the expected precipitation can be found on my site, bearing in mind that the tornado and severe activity usually forms in the fast moving part of the frontal boundary and not usually in the areas of heaviest total daily precipitation.
On the maps show on my site you can expect to see the tornado development in the areas with the “netted” looking precipitation patterns due to the usual nature of the part of the front where they occur.
1974 is one of the analog years for my forecast method, which is why I mention we may see a replay of that out break.””
How it works is covered in the research section of the site.
http://research.aerology.com/severe-weather/
Link to the tornado severe pages for NOAA. did not copy?
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/110409_rpts.html
So what were the Earth wind speed levels and World cloud cover levels in last 150 years?
I wonder why there aren’t fakes ones like for temperatures…
@Rhys Jaggar says:
April 9, 2011 at 11:33 pm
“There will obviously need to be some pretty deep understanding of the sun, the oceans, the atmosphere etc etc and how they all interact, dynamically.”
With a clearer idea of what solar factors are causing short term temperature changes, one can then start to interpret what the response of the AO and ENSO are to this at different times of the year. Such that the response with these oscillators should reverse from summer to winter, as is in precipitation, with cold periods in summer months forcing more rainfall, and warmth in winter months forcing more rain/snow.
With forecasting the solar factors, everything else follows, including volcanoes and circulation patterns, largely by seeing how they respond to different solar driven temperature levels and changes through the seasons.
I’m always impressed by your posts Ulric Lyons. But the volcanoes part makes me wonder, when it often takes weeks, months and sometimes years for magma to make it to the surface after it starts moving and breaking rock. Signaled by deep earthquakes as you know.
But long-range climate is simple to predict! Obviously, the answer is to run our climate models for 3 to 6 months instead of 50 years. I’m I the only one around here doing any thinking?
/sarcasm off
Seriously, all it takes to predict the climate is some graph paper and a straight edge. Just plot a climate trend that matches your needs, and then take the straight edge and draw the trend out indefinitely.