Victoria Announces the End of Affordable Home Heating, Because Climate Change

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

The cold Aussie state of Victoria has announced that in the future, people will have to rely on their increasingly unstable and unaffordable electricity grid, to hold back the winter chill.

Push to turn off gas to help reach state’s climate goal

Gas appliances including heaters, hot water services and cooktops would be phased out under a proposed moratorium on new gas connections to households.

By Tom Cowie and Nick O’Malley • May 05, 2021 — 05.05am

Gas appliances including heaters, hot water services and cooktops would be phased out under a proposed moratorium on new gas connections to Victorian households to help the state achieve its 2030 target to cut carbon emissions by up to 50 per cent.

The City of Yarra is the first council to pledge to switch its buildings, including pools and community centres, from gas to renewable electricity by 2030 and wants the state government to back a ban on gas connections in new homes.

Victorians are the nation’s biggest users of natural gas for heating, hot water and cooking due to the state’s historically cheap and plentiful supply piped in from Bass Strait since the 1970s.

But the state may need to cut back on gas if it is to meet its climate goal, announced on Sunday, to reduce greenhouse pollution by 28 to 33 per cent of 2005 levels by 2025, and 45 to 50 per cent by 2030.

“I love cooking on gas too, but there are certain luxuries that we are going to have to abandon if we are serious about climate change,” City of Yarra mayor Gabrielle de Vietri said.

“We have a huge opportunity to make a significant impact by moving away from gas.”

Environment Minister Lily D’Ambrosio said a shift to electricity was part of a plan being developed by the state government to address the way households use gas.

Read more: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html

This Victorian State Government announcement is yet another example of how back to front and harmful climate policy is.

Given green claims that renewable energy investments will slash household power bills, Instead of forcing higher costs on everyone, all the Victorian Government has to do is deliver some of these green cost savings they keep promising. Then people will switch off their gas appliances of their own free will, without the financial hardship a premature forced switch is likely to inflict.

Update (EW) Added the quote from Victorian Environment Minister Lily D’Ambrosio.

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Hokey Schtick
May 5, 2021 2:16 am

If they serious, they should die for climate change.

Reply to  Hokey Schtick
May 5, 2021 2:42 am

Good luck, this is Coming To America – Just ask Joe Biden: – “No gas for you”

Steve Case
Reply to  JON P PETERSON
May 5, 2021 3:46 am

It’s already here, San Jose, CA has banned natural gas in new residential construction. LINK

Scissor
Reply to  JON P PETERSON
May 5, 2021 4:42 am

I envision infrastructure jobs to remove natural gas pipelines and the workers will be happy to freeze in the dark.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Scissor
May 5, 2021 6:36 am

While learning to code.

Cam_S
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
May 5, 2021 8:28 am

That’s Greta-tastic!

Michael in Dublin
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
May 5, 2021 12:02 pm

Then they flood the profession with junk coders who cannot code properly.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  JON P PETERSON
May 5, 2021 7:17 am

What exactly is their problem with Natural Gas, anyway? Is it because it works so well and is pretty cheap? The push for all-electric heating totally ignores how expensive it is to heat with electricity compared to gas. and no one seems to question where all this electricity is coming from.

JamesD
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
May 5, 2021 7:25 am

Cult thinking. Don’t try to make sense of it. During this period they are removing natural gas appliances, China and India will likely install a couple of terrawatts of coal fired electric plants.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
May 5, 2021 7:49 am

I remember back in the early 1960’s throughthe ‘early 70’s the local electric company in South Carolina had salesmen traveling the area pushing all-electric homes. “Ready Kilowatt” was saturating TV trying to sell the idea. Hundreds of “all-electric” homes were built locally. It didn’t take but long before the people that bought those homes were trying to either dump them or convert them to other methods of heating, cooking, etc. When I pointed that out to a friend of mine who worked as a salesman for the electric company his excuse was that they weren’t installing enough insulation. From my calculations at the time, with what they called ceiling cable heat, you needed something like R-40 to R-45 in the ceiling and R-19 or better in the walls. Even at that it couldn’t compete with heat pumps on an energy cost basis..

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Joe Crawford
May 5, 2021 1:23 pm

I remember well those all electric homes and how unhappy most people were with them. Electricity is a wonderful thing and very useful but when it comes to heating a home, water, or cooking, gas is far preferable.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
May 5, 2021 8:51 am

Pamela, electricity comes out of a wall. Don’t you know anything about electricity?

Leftard parasitism depends on destroying wealth and prosperity things that have been developed by normal people.

Kevin kilty
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
May 5, 2021 9:14 am

Pamela,

I apologize for the comment I made above. You do seem to be an exception, however.

Reply to  Kevin kilty
May 5, 2021 9:19 am

I think Pamela got it. I certainly did and saw it as no slur on Pamela

John
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
May 5, 2021 2:47 pm

There are trillions – perhaps quadrillions – of cubic feet of natural gas still under the earth crust. I think the Malthusian Leftists are terrified that humans may ultimately want to access and use that energy. Never forget Paul Ehrlich of Stanford: Giving society cheap, abundant energy is tantamount to giving an idiot child a machine gun. That’s exactly how they view us……….the “great unwashed”.

Scott Mc
Reply to  Pamela Matlack-Klein
May 5, 2021 8:49 pm

How do you give grants and fixed priced contracts to friends and family for a gas plant? But give them the contracts for eg a solar farm and they can get many big players who want to participate… Plus its easy to raise taxes and you can tell people how much you care about the earth and grandkids..

Vuk
Reply to  Hokey Schtick
May 5, 2021 2:59 am

Chinese are laughing their heads off all the way from the Peking’s forbidden city to the Wuhan wet market.

RLu
Reply to  Vuk
May 5, 2021 3:16 am

Wuhan wet market, for all your second hand lab test animals. They’re delicious.

joselori
Reply to  RLu
May 5, 2021 6:48 am

..On a wing and a prayer. Bat wing that is, and pray I don’t die.

Reply to  joselori
May 5, 2021 9:20 am

I just had my second Astra Zenaca shot and I AM NOT DEAD YET!

Vuk
Reply to  Leo Smith
May 5, 2021 11:12 am

but you might turn into chimpanzee !
(‘the AstraZeneca vaccine uses a chimpanzee adenovirus vaccine vector’)

Shanghai Dan
Reply to  Vuk
May 5, 2021 11:38 am

As I sit here struggling to solder a bunch of stuff together, a prehensile tail could come in REAL handy about now, so … Sign me up!

Scott Mc
Reply to  Leo Smith
May 5, 2021 8:55 pm

I hear the Chinese vacinne is giving old woman orgasims…

“I’ll have what she’s having” said another old lady..

Scott Mc
Reply to  Leo Smith
May 5, 2021 8:56 pm

The second one is an update to the initial App installed…AZ 2.1

John in Oz
Reply to  Leo Smith
May 5, 2021 9:33 pm

I’ve had my first shot and can now count on 2 hands the 11 things I hate about the climacrazies

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Reply to  RLu
May 5, 2021 11:06 am

I believe there is a place for all God’s creatures – right next to the potatoes and salad.

Scott Mc
Reply to  Vuk
May 5, 2021 8:53 pm

Credit to Woody Guthrie

From the Forbidden city,
To the Wuhan Market
This land is made for Xi and Mao…

Serge Wright
Reply to  Vuk
May 5, 2021 10:55 pm

yes, they have infected the west and made us “bat sh.t crazy”

cedarhill
Reply to  Hokey Schtick
May 5, 2021 4:23 am

They likely will since cold kills more efficiently than warm.
Aside from that, I say just leave Victoria alone. That’s what the voters want.

That includes removing them from the Aussie grid. After all, there’s carbon-produced power on the grid.

Reply to  Hokey Schtick
May 5, 2021 4:50 am

VIctoria and America goes backward while China goes forward … https://newtube.app/user/RAOB/kf3DIEm

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Hokey Schtick
May 5, 2021 5:08 am

Right, like some early Christians who prefered to be sent to the lions in the Coliseum rather than repent. They could for example decided to live in a tiny straw house and only ride a bike. Let’s start a count of how many do this.

Redge
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
May 5, 2021 5:22 am

and only ride a bike

…made from timber they’ve scavenged from pristine forest floors

DonK31
Reply to  Redge
May 5, 2021 5:47 am

They’re allowed to scavenge? I thought the purpose of downed timber branches and leaves was as kindling for wildfires.

OldGreyGuy
Reply to  DonK31
May 5, 2021 7:23 pm

Only if they use Human-drawn carts and hand saws to sustainably harvest the branches that want to fall.

Scott Mc
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
May 5, 2021 8:57 pm

They will need to burn the straw to keep warm…

Dean
Reply to  Hokey Schtick
May 6, 2021 10:31 pm

Because cold kills a lot more people than heat, reducing people’s ability to heat their homes will certainly kill people.

Dictator Dan is having another blinder…..

adrian
May 5, 2021 2:32 am

Victoria, where the idiots are taking over the asylum. What happens to the electricity grid, and electricity prices when the sun doesn’t shine and the wind doesn’t blow? Duh!!! Of course there are those that believe the sun shines out of the Labor Government’s backside. Australia produces just 1.3% of total world carbon emissions. What a joke this nation has become because of mindless crusades by the extreme left.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  adrian
May 5, 2021 5:41 am

Both wimmin, notice. No logic or knowledge, just fweelz.

Eric Harpham
May 5, 2021 2:53 am

According to Valentina Zharkova, an Astrophysicist at Durham University in the UK, in her article “We entered the ‘modern’ Grand Solar Minimum on 8th June 2020”.

The title says it all. The article is very interesting if you Google it. The past winter’s worldwide cold events, not published in the main stream media here in the UK, give good cause to believe that she is correct.

The UK is also heading in the same direction as Victoria. I don’t fancy my children and grand childrens’ lives in the years ahead. She says that the worse years will be 2030 to 2043. If I live to see/experience it I shall be nearly 100 by the time it starts to get warmer again,

Vuk
Reply to  Eric Harpham
May 5, 2021 3:10 am

“…. 8th of June 2020” that is a bit too precise to be taken seriously. Last major Grand Minimum was Dalton (shown in blue) but many scientists attribute large portion of it’s effect to volcanic activity. It is questionable if early 20th century minimum (in green) qualifies as GM, while the current minimum (in red) as things stand may not be long enough, but time will tell.

SSN-3-minima.gif
Scissor
Reply to  Vuk
May 5, 2021 4:40 am

It seems that a little poetic license was taken at Electroverse.

https://electroverse.net/we-entered-the-modern-grand-solar-minimum-on-june-8-2020/

Here’s the Zharkova editorial:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2020.1796243

Sara
Reply to  Eric Harpham
May 5, 2021 5:35 am

Well, that does explain why, here in the upper Midwest, the overnight temps dropped to the upper 30s and the high for today in my AO will be around 52F. We were expected to have snow last week and we did. It was sparse but real, but melted before there was enough light to get a good shot of my front steps. My grassy lawn has a dearth of violets this year. I miss those little purple flowers.

It is ridiculous for Those People to go on howling about “uncontrolled warming” and tell anyone to shut off heat sources when they are the most guilty of wastrels on the planet.

Tim Gorman
Reply to  Sara
May 5, 2021 7:44 am

We got down to 34F last night here in KS. In NE and SD they got down below freezing, 29F to 30F. At least my garden survived. I was afraid I was going to have to replant for the third time!

Sara
Reply to  Sara
May 5, 2021 8:06 am

And I’m guessing (ONLY guessing) that this summer will be chilly enough for sweaters, except for a few hot days in August, and the migratory birds like geese and ducks will leave earlier than usual.
That, of course, will depend on how their food sources hold up. They won’t leave until they have no other choice. If you feed them, they stick around.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Sara
May 5, 2021 8:11 am

It takes 3 out of 5 stretches of 6 years for it to be considered “climate”. Except for climate liars, for whom the duration is “since-I-thought-of-the-last-huge-doom story”.

Scott Mc
Reply to  DMacKenzie
May 5, 2021 9:01 pm

Its only climate if its really hot…

Sara
Reply to  DMacKenzie
May 6, 2021 5:47 am

Yes, and if it’s warm enough for them to find good food sources (like silly Hoomans who feed them when they shouldn’t), then they will sit out the winter or go south late in the season – as late as Dec. 31: I have photos of that – and come back the minute they think it’s warm enough for open water to be available.
So if the “climate” starts dropping to cooler status for up to a decade, that will change things considerably for those migrant birds. And as we (who live in the real world) know, if it’s warm enough to fish at the local state park, it’s warm enough for birds to return.

Scott Mc
Reply to  Sara
May 5, 2021 9:00 pm

Thats Global Warming for you, also when it was cooler, there were many more 100d days in the midwest, they were common, but not today. The Warmest says there are less 100d days today because of air conditioning…:)

Its like the scientist who was going to take a space ship to the moon, when told they would burn up, he said, we are going to go at night..

May 5, 2021 2:58 am

“The cold Aussie state of Victoria has announced that in the future, people will have to rely on their…”
“This Victorian State Government announcement …”

There is no such Victorian State Government announcement. A local government (Yarra) has announced an intention in their suburban region, but actually has no authority; they require the support of the Planning Minister. The rest of the report consists of various people speculating about the possibility of such a requirement.


Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 5, 2021 3:55 am

The Environment Minister (not Planning or Energy) has spoken of a shift toward electricity as part of a plan being developed. That is very far from your headline
“Victoria Announces the End of Affordable Home Heating”
There is no announcement about banning gas.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 5, 2021 4:19 am

Nothing is clear until the plan actually gets developed. Then there might in fact be an announcement. They will probably do something to encourage heat pumping.

JamesD
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 7:30 am

They might do something to “encourage” using electric over gas. That’s what heat pumping is, correct?

Reply to  JamesD
May 5, 2021 12:13 pm

Heat pumping is basically reverse cycle air conditioning. It is thermodynamically much more efficient, but has higher initial cost. I think moving toward that would be an excellent idea.

ghl
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 6, 2021 12:36 am

But more moving parts.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 6, 2021 11:53 am

Nick, “heat pumping” is the description of the process performed by air conditioners,refrigerators, etc, anything that moves heat from one physical area to another by the compression and expansion of a gas. ‘Heat pump’ (singular) usually refers to a reverse cycle air conditioner.

Most ‘heat pumps’ are only efficient above approximately 40°F. Below that temprature they typically use more electricity than electric ceiling cable or baseboard heat and are not really applicable to northern areas, i.e. any place where night time temperatures are typically in the 30s or below for much of the Winter. Even here in West Virginia good heat pump installations have a built-in ’emergency’ mode that switches off the heat pumping cycle and turns on electric resistance coils when the outside temperature drops below a set value.

Reply to  Joe Crawford
May 6, 2021 8:35 pm

Most ‘heat pumps’ are only efficient above approximately 40°F.”
Well, despite Eric’s exaggerated headline, temperatures in Victoria are rarely much below 40°F.

whiten
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 8:17 am

Like with the ‘Final Solution’ plan??

Ya, ya, Nick.
At first,
even the ‘banning of the gew’ for the sake of the environment and the might of sterility,
was not official or clear enough in that country then, which was feverishly daydreaming about becoming the New Wome… the vewy wowld dominating powew.

cheers

Last edited 2 months ago by whiten
Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 5, 2021 5:23 am

Note that Nick avoiding giving his opinion if switching from residential gas to all electric was a good idea or not.

Greg
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
May 5, 2021 6:38 am

Funny how some people prefer establishing the FACTS rather than proffering their opinion. A despicable habit, if ever there was.

Lrp
Reply to  Greg
May 5, 2021 1:43 pm

Facts on this subject: Victorian government announced plan to reduce CO2 emissions by 50% by 2030 and power the state using 50% renewables

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 3:49 am

“We have a huge opportunity to make a significant impact by moving away from gas.”

Just the person Nick. Can you define ‘Huge opportunity’ and Significant impact”?

How is cutting drastically back on your own current lifestyle choices in order to combat dangerous climate change going Nick? Are you at zero carbon yet?

Tonyb

Reply to  tonyb
May 5, 2021 4:16 am

That is not a statement from the Victorian Government. It is from a mayor (Green party) of an inner city suburban council.

Sheepfart
Reply to  tonyb
May 5, 2021 4:19 am

Huge impact = impact capitalism. Huge opportunity = massive profits.

Create the crisis and sell the solution.

whiten
Reply to  Sheepfart
May 5, 2021 8:49 am

Fascism=
Brutal violent tyranical monopolisation of finances, economy, infrastructure and industry by the party or the ruling caste gone mad… with them very proclaimed moto;
“Trust (in) us;
The most safe and only,
fair and secure hands that one must trust the ‘future’ to.”

Communism, the moma of Socialism=
Full brutal violent ownership of people, nation(s) and all goods there, by a bunch of insanes calling themselves;
“The one and the only ‘mother’ party of the ploteriariat”.
“The very enlightened ‘pillars’ of the blinding bright future.”

cheers

Scott Mc
Reply to  tonyb
May 5, 2021 9:03 pm

I always move away from (someone with) gas

lee
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 5:01 am

This paragraph – “Gas appliances including heaters, hot water services and cooktops would be phased out under a proposed moratorium on new gas connections to Victorian households to help the state achieve its 2030 target to cut carbon emissions by up to 50 per cent.” Yarra as they say is merely the first council.;)

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  lee
May 5, 2021 5:24 am

Another nit on the elephant’s ear picked by Nick.

Reply to  lee
May 5, 2021 12:18 pm

It is proposed by the Green mayor of an inner city suburban council. And as your quote says, she’s on her own, and the council cannot enforce it. It is not proposed by the State government.

Lrp
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 1:45 pm

The government wants to go %50 renewables by 2030

Reply to  Lrp
May 5, 2021 2:23 pm

South Australia is already there. And there is no ban there on gas home heating.

Waza
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 3:50 pm

Nick
Do you mean SA is already there between the hours of 8am and 6pm?
During last nights peak, only 6% of SA’s electricity came from renewables.
Duck curve all the way.

Reply to  Waza
May 5, 2021 4:36 pm

I mean that reaching Vic’s 2030 target would put us about where SA is now. So it’s feasible. And it doesn’t require banning gas heating.

John in Oz
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 9:40 pm

A quick search found these prices:

New South Wales (postcode: 2000) 24.68

Victoria (postcode: 3000) 22.91

Queensland (postcode: 4000) 21.68

South Australia (postcode: 5000) 35.25

Average rates based on single rate tariffs. Average rates calculation includes discounts that may expire. Numbers last checked April 2020.

You might be pushing the proverbial uphill to convince Victoristanians that they will be better off following SA’s lead.

Reply to  John in Oz
May 5, 2021 11:01 pm

“they will be better off following SA’s lead”
Wholesale prices are cheaper in SA. Retailers seem to be ripping them off.
comment image

Lrp
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 9:11 pm

South Australia also has the highest cost of electricity in the world, but that’s got nothing to do with gas

lee
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 6, 2021 12:30 am

So now Victorians all live in Yarra?

YallaYPoora Kid
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 7:32 am

As reported in The Age otherwise known as the Left Wing mouthpiece of the Victorian Government:

Environment Minister Lily D’Ambrosio said a shift to electricity was part of a plan being developed by the state government to address the way households use gas.

“[The plan] will help Victoria meet emissions-reduction targets through more efficient use of gas, increased use of hydrogen and biogas and increased electrification of Victoria’s homes and businesses,” she said.

Sounds pretty much like policy to me. Nick with his usual spin.

Doonman
Reply to  YallaYPoora Kid
May 5, 2021 11:34 am

No no, you’re wrong. It wasn’t published in black bold, so there is nothing to worry about. Words don’t actually mean what they say, they mean what I say they mean.

stinkerp
Reply to  Nick Stokes
May 5, 2021 8:21 am

Climate alarmists and progressives aren’t the only ones baited by alarmist misinformation. There’s an easy solution to prevent the plan being developed to shift to electricity from being implemented. Vote them out. FYI, electricity isn’t bad, especially if it’s generated from nuclear fission, which is virtually limitless. Natural gas and coal deposits aren’t limitless.

Lrp
Reply to  stinkerp
May 5, 2021 1:46 pm

We have a thousand years worth of coal; why go stupid?

YallaYPoora Kid
Reply to  Lrp
May 5, 2021 2:25 pm

Victorian Government is stupid, controlled by lefty ideologs and heavily influenced by the Greens. Unfortunately local councils are overrun by these ratbags as well.

When someone like Flannery can continue make failed predictions without being widely called out by our media what do the susceptible and gullible have to rely on for guidance.

Even our Federal Chief Scientist appointed by our conservative Feds is a warmist, what hope do we have?

stinkerp
Reply to  Lrp
May 5, 2021 6:06 pm

We have a billion years of uranium in the oceans; demonstrated to be economically extractable. Why go stupid?

May 5, 2021 3:07 am

At present the State of Victorian’s Government is run by primitive ‘Climate Change’ lunatics spearheaded by Dan-the-Man Andrews. They are afficianados of all sorts of harmful social and fiscal ideas..
The touted ‘Green’ cost savings are as elusive and mythical as unicorns. Victoria can be colder than Tasmania to the south in winter. There will be much suffering in Victoria until the ‘Climate Change’ lunatics are ousted by wounded electors in an election.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  nicholas tesdorf
May 5, 2021 3:26 am

yup its was 2.2c here last night out in the southwest of the state, and 15?or 16 today

ozspeaksup
May 5, 2021 3:24 am

its ONE council area
its NOT settled yet
and seeing as they banned electric water storage units some time back, forcing either gas or the stupid thermal things with massive noisy fans that dont work in our icy cold winters..Id suggest thios is virtue signalling but bound for an epic fail
power prices rising still avg is around 30c kwh
gas is the cheaper option for heating and cooking and water and people have a hard enough time already paying bills.

Ron Long
May 5, 2021 3:39 am

“…certain luxuries that we are going to have to abandon…”, what a lot of nonsense. These CAGW Greenies want cultural backwardation to give sanity to their virtue signaling. Yesterday the prediction for min temperature last night (Mendoza. Argentina) was 5 deg C, so, due to a unanimous vote (me, wife, two dogs), we turned on the gas-fired heating system, which is hot water through radiators. I’m sitting here this morning and quite comfortable, thank you.

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  Ron Long
May 5, 2021 3:52 am

Ron

If you can just give us your precise address, we can get our friendly Climate Change operatives around to to your home to have a friendly chat about the planet and your need to participate in a more structured fashion if we are to ever get out of this climate emergency.

tonyb

fretslider
Reply to  tonyb
May 5, 2021 5:12 am

if we are to ever get out of this climate emergency.

But if we did that all the Manns, Oreskes etc etc etc would be out of money, position and influence. It’s the same problem faced by those in the race industry. Solve it and it’s goodnight Vienna.

Turkeys, on balance, do not vote for Christmas – or Thanksgiving.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  tonyb
May 5, 2021 5:43 am

🤣😇👍👍

Ron Long
Reply to  tonyb
May 5, 2021 11:51 am

Send them to me, TonyB, I have experience dealing with persons who don’t follow civil law and it transitions to criminal law. Somewhere there is an Earth Frist person who clan vouch for this.

Frank from NoVA
May 5, 2021 4:09 am

Conversion of the chemical energy in gas to heat for space heating and cooking is pretty darn efficient (>86%). Are these people assuming they can obtain all of their electricity supply from non-thermal sources or are they just ignorant of basic thermodynamics?

OweninGA
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
May 5, 2021 5:10 am

The answer to both rhetorical questions is “YES”, but of course you knew that and that was why you typed it.

Chaswarnertoo
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
May 5, 2021 5:44 am

Ignorant, and proud of it.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
May 5, 2021 8:27 am

If the power goes out due to an ice storm, you are very glad you have a natural gas stove, Bbq, hot water heater, and a little ICE generator to run the furnace fan once in a while.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
May 5, 2021 10:51 am

“Conversion of the chemical energy in gas to heat for space heating and cooking is pretty darn efficient (>86%)”

In fact, it is the most efficient use of natural gas. More efficient than burning it in a powerplant even.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Tom Abbott
May 5, 2021 4:08 pm

it is the most efficient use of natural gas. More efficient than burning it in a powerplant even.

That’s because you are after heat, which it provides, instead of turning that heat into a turning turbine, which is inefficient.

My cooking is gas, but I have an electric oven (I have a new gas one, will install soon). Roasting anything in the electric oven costs about the same as my cooking for the entire month, and I use the most expensive gas possible, bottled LPG.

Gas is best, just don’t use aluminium pans!

Last edited 2 months ago by Zig Zag Wanderer
fretslider
May 5, 2021 4:12 am

It’s cold comfort (sic) to find that we in the chilly UK are not alone.

Where is Wat Tyler when you need him?

fretslider
Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 5, 2021 4:31 am

The joke here, Eric, is that Doris fully agrees with the last person he spoke with.

jim Turner
Reply to  fretslider
May 5, 2021 4:46 am

He was murdered by the Mayor of London.

Reply to  fretslider
May 5, 2021 10:21 am

Chilly UK ?
comment image

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Krishna Gans
May 5, 2021 10:52 am

Burrrrr! That looks chilly!

Lrp
Reply to  Krishna Gans
May 5, 2021 1:52 pm

And to think that in the middle of England there’s Griff still suffering from warming

R_G
Reply to  Krishna Gans
May 5, 2021 5:15 pm

Why you scaring our children? You should post it using this image. /sarc

UK Met Office.png
Bruce Cobb
May 5, 2021 4:19 am

“I love cooking on gas too, but there are certain luxuries that we are going to have to abandon if we are serious about climate change,” City of Yarra mayor Gabrielle de Vietri said.

What an ignorant, pompous twit. Notice the royal “we”. Well, “we” are not amused.

Steve Case
May 5, 2021 5:12 am

Natural gas bans are based on the Global Warming Potential (GWP) numbers found in the IPCC Assessment reports. The current GWP for methane is 86, and the typical story line in the news is, “Methane is 86 times more powerful than CO2 at trapping heat.” What governors, mayors, bureaucrats and associated policy makers never hear or ask about is how much methane will actually run up global temperatures. The answer is essentially nothing.

The 1990 IPCC report page 58 says that the GWP is the forcing from the release of 1 kg of methane relative to 1 kg of carbon dioxide. In the current report, that number is 86.

By 2100 methane will have increased in the atmosphere by about 0.5 ppm (source). Since the comparison is by mass a similar increase in CO2 would be about 0.18 ppm. So the question is: If CO2 increases from 400.00 ppm to 400.18 ppm, how much will that run up global temperature? The obvious answer is essentially nothing, and 86 times nothing is nothing.

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WUWT is a wonderful place for honest criticism. So If there is something fundamentally wrong with the above scenario please let me know what that is.

Steve Case
Reply to  Steve Case
May 5, 2021 6:32 am

Deleted S.Case

Last edited 2 months ago by Steve Case
Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Steve Case
May 5, 2021 4:16 pm

Exactly.

All those cow farts, which we apparently have to stop (even though all animals are by their very nature carbon neutral), add up to parts per BILLION. That’s 1000 times as small as the dangerously low parts per million of CO2 in the atmosphere.

So make that 86/1000 times as effective as CO2, ie 0.086 times as effective.

These people are delusional.

Sara
May 5, 2021 5:26 am

If every politician, in or running for office, would get their mouths sewn shut and wear rebreathers, that would extensively lower the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in the blink of an eye.

Oh, but don’t worry: they’ll be heating their home, cooking, and using hot tap water, all heat-sourced with natural gas, because it’s okay for them, but NOT for YOU.

Sara
Reply to  Eric Worrall
May 5, 2021 6:10 am

Eric, you could post a SPEW warning. Just as a small courtesy….. 🙂 I was drinking iced tea because the morning temp is 38F and I felt far too warm for hot tea…. 🙂

I’m waiting for the next power outage from the ComEd. Seems to be a regular occurrence these days, and oddly, their invoice every month says they switched to “environmentally friendly” sources for the power grid. I predict a cold, cold winter starting next Fall, maybe the end of September… but then, I’m an optimist.

Sara
May 5, 2021 5:38 am

Just a question: Is this idiotic phobia the source of the first “Mad Max” movie, where every civilized thing was disappearing like snow melting in the Sun? Just askin’, because that planet went from green and growing to a barren sandy desert by the time the last film was shot.

Is that what those political mopes are hoping will happen?

Richard Page
Reply to  Sara
May 5, 2021 10:08 am

I would be completely unsurprised to find out that the Green Blob was full of morons unable to tell fantasy from reality.

dk_
May 5, 2021 5:41 am

“We have a huge opportunity to make a significant impact by moving away from gas.”
Since this is demonstrably, factually wrong in at least three ways, why not vote the weak minded fool, “City of Yarra mayor Gabrielle de Vietri”, out of office? Pretty sure the Ozzies can handle this.
My city council is equally ignorant, and I hope to have them gone soon, too.

fretslider
Reply to  dk_
May 5, 2021 5:48 am

I hope

We once had hope and now it’s gone, seemingly forever.

Our Parliament is 100% behind the green lunacy and that really does trickle down.

dk_
Reply to  fretslider
May 5, 2021 7:52 am

Look up Heinlein’s “Take back your government.” It may still be free, and it is still pertinent, although you might have to translate a little to Oz government. Short version is that you’ve got to start with the local council, then go up. Takes a long time and committment, but starting at the top is a helluva lot more difficult.

ResourceGuy
May 5, 2021 6:09 am

Cold showers might be a good thing here to wake people up.

observa
May 5, 2021 6:30 am

Only Porsche and Tesla can save Australians from their wicked ways now-
Australia electric car sales double, but swamped by numbers of diesel, petrol sales (thedriven.io)

Johnny Cuyana
May 5, 2021 6:42 am

Here in our USA, way too many of us have also contracted a similar DISEASE: a disease that dissolves the spine.

The saddest part, though, is that there is a cure but, apparently, we refuse to apply it.

The cure being one presented in our foundational Charter Documents; however, for whatever reasons — I believe we can appreciate what these reasons are — a substantial portion of our present-day citizenry, has refused to even learn it.

All the while, we here in the USA do not seem to appreciate that we have no special immunity from the vagueries of self-serving human nature; where, if such present trends continue — that is, the collective dissolution of our vertebrae — we too, shall lose both our republican form of govt and our fundamental American democracy.

It’s not yet too late. Now is a good time for us to, collectively, wake up and change course. Remember always: the buck stops with us — WE The People — and no one else.

observa
May 5, 2021 7:07 am

Just when you think these sick awful self loathing humans can’t get any worse they do-
France’s climate legislation involves ‘diabolical creation’ to cut emissions (msn.com)

John Kelly
May 5, 2021 7:19 am

What an extraordinary decision. As someone who braved shockingly cold Victorian winters for 20 years, this is an inhumane decision. I presume wood stoves have already been banned. But the current flock of sheep in Victoria will be happy.

PS. I’m a sook, compared to winters in the northern hemisphere, winters in Victoria are mild. But not for Australians.

Walter Sobchak
May 5, 2021 7:28 am

Wood. Chopping wood warms you twice. Also gives a nice odor to the neighborhood. Not only that but the market for wood will reduce forest fires.

jono1066
May 5, 2021 7:41 am

I quote :-
“to reduce greenhouse pollution”
game over, we lost,
nothing, but nothing can win against such powerful rhetoric in those last 2 words
“climate change” is dead, witness the new birth
Climate change can be good or bad
Pollution is only bad

(will the last one standing please turn off the lights)

LdB
May 5, 2021 7:48 am

We the citizens of Western Australia promise to increase our CO2 emissions to offset any Victorian saving.

Richard Page
Reply to  LdB
May 5, 2021 10:10 am

You may yet have to – where will the extra electricity needed come from?

Kevin kilty
May 5, 2021 9:13 am

Lily and Gabrielle? Seriously? I would like to think that our species current reasoning problems epitomized by the hysteria over climate is not related to sex, but my opinion is constantly on the wrong side of observation.

PCman999
May 5, 2021 9:52 am

“there are certain luxuries that we are going to have to abandon if we are serious about climate change,” clueless econazis thinks other people staying warm is a luxury! I’m sure he’ll be the first to cut off his gas supply… Of course the fatcat politician won’t notice the more expensive electrical bill.

PCman999
May 5, 2021 9:54 am

Even if I was an alarmists, this doesn’t make sense – the renewable grid is no where near ready for the load such forced migrations will cause. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

Notanacademic
Reply to  PCman999
May 5, 2021 12:50 pm

I wish they’d aim higher!

Paul
May 5, 2021 10:03 am

What I want to know is why they ALWAYS start with residential housing construction? Commercial buildings not using natural gas would be so much better for showing the positive use of green heating and cooling.

May 5, 2021 10:17 am

Give the Greens the opportunity for a restart in the stonage, at least in the middleages.

mikee
Reply to  Krishna Gans
May 5, 2021 11:32 pm

How about the primordial slime!

Keith Harrison
May 5, 2021 10:49 am

How many export LNG plants does Australia benefit from? If all Australians take the view of Victoria and its politicians towards gas perhaps the LNG export facilities need to be shuttered because Australia is now exporting its carbon causing energy.

Doonman
May 5, 2021 10:54 am

California is doing the same thing. Natural gas is bad because….. oh yeah, because its a fossil fuel, made from dead vegetation and dinosaurs, just like the oceans of methane on Titan.

mikee
Reply to  Doonman
May 5, 2021 11:29 pm

Titan must have been a dinosaur and vegetation paradise. So, where did they all go???

graham dunton
May 5, 2021 11:51 am

Pathetic, bordering on insanity, what does the el Presidento, and other ministers, do for heating.
The good news is a wind farm project has been blocked, here in Queensland

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/lnp-minister-keith-pitt-uses-veto-powers-to-deny-kaban-green-energy-hubs-funding-bid/news-story/887b11a92c3286457282df03c0a04fc5

The practice of using an image of belching smoke, in the intro, is deceiving?

To bed B
May 5, 2021 2:07 pm

From the Australian News website (Murdoch papers)
Climate Council warns of gas dangers in schools and homes.
“Parents have been warned that sending their kids to NSW schools could be harming their health.

And the real danger is much wider, with kids at risk across Aussie homes, according to a new report.

The Climate Council warns the use of gas in homes is exposing Australian children to a higher risk of asthma, as well as driving climate change.”

Blatant coordinated propaganda. I’m sure flued heaters are better but I went to school where gas heaters were unflued and I was an asthmatic. Never had an attack in the class room. Always got it sucking in the pollen outside.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  To bed B
May 5, 2021 4:23 pm

Well, we had unflued had in our rental home while living in Sydney. The damp it caused was horrible. Using dehumidifiers helped, but cost, but improved our son’s asthma. The damp causes mould.

To bed B
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
May 5, 2021 8:56 pm

My anecdote is from Northen Victoria. Not even the bread goes mouldy it’s that dry.

taz1999
May 5, 2021 2:30 pm

“but there are certain luxuries that we are going to have to abandon” like living.

Scott Mc
May 5, 2021 8:47 pm

Fortunately it doesnt get too cold there, it will make hot water much more expensive and they can just wear coats, gloves and hats in the house during the winter.

RMT
May 5, 2021 9:23 pm

I never hear of these types of stories out of China, India, Vietnam, or any developing country.

sky king
May 5, 2021 9:43 pm

Oz out of their minds too! There really is no where to go to escape this insanity, unless you want to live in India or China.

Jean Parisot
May 5, 2021 9:51 pm

Is someone going to build an LNG plant to export all the gas they don’t use?

Vincent Causey
May 5, 2021 11:37 pm

It’s funny that all these “green savings” are always just a few years in the future, just round the corner.

David A
Reply to  Vincent Causey
May 7, 2021 3:15 pm

Just like the disasters they predict.

Patrick MJD
May 6, 2021 12:45 am

Victoria has announced taxes and subsidies on EV’s. There is no sense in Victoria.

James
May 6, 2021 3:34 am

I am sure burning dried cow and sheep dung to cook and stay warm will help eliminate global warming. (sarc)

TonyG
Reply to  James
May 6, 2021 6:33 am

Not sarc.

I saw a show a few months back – the host traveled around seeing how people in different places lived. At one home in Africa, the guy he was visiting started a dung fire to cook dinner.

The host marveled at how “sustainable” and “environmentally friendly” this was. He was that clueless.

A. C.
May 6, 2021 5:13 pm

As far as I can tell, the people making those decisions are, ultimately, elected officials. So the good citizens of the Victoria are getting what they voted for. Good and hard.

Tony
May 7, 2021 2:10 am

For a long time now, reverse cycle air conditioning (sometimes referred to as heat pumps) has been the cheapest form of heating. I know this site fetishises the burning of fossuil fuels, for some reason, but, the coupling of heat pumps, solar and wind is much cheaper than gas, particularly in Australia, where it (gas) is very expensive (yes I know Oz has plenty of gas- why it’s expensive is a long story)

TomR
May 9, 2021 2:14 am

Gas and renewables for heating are compatible – there exist natural gas powered heatpumps, including absorption heatpubms, adsorbtion heatpumps, gas-motor heatpumps. So ban on gas is also a ban on a type of renewable energy – gas powered heatpumps.

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