Hmmm… I can think of different ways to describe this behavior.
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Hmmm… I can think of different ways to describe this behavior.
.@DanaBashCNN presses Dr. Fauci on his comments about “moving the goal posts” on herd immunity based on polling. "Why weren’t you straight with the American people about this to begin with?” she asks.
— Steve Krakauer (@SteveKrak) December 27, 2020
He deflects multiple times. She presses and he says it’s just a “guesstimate." pic.twitter.com/kquQvlwZ8j
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First the Tanzanian president, now the Italian doctors are having fun test Corona. What would Fauci say about herd immunity with regards to Kiwi?
Must the Kiwi go in quarantine? Corona rapid test
Fauci started off on the wrong foot at the beginning of the Wuhan virus pandemic by claiming the general public did not need to wear masks.
He later admitted that he said that not because he did not think the general pubic should be wearing masks, but because he was afraid if he did say masks were required, then the general public would scoop up all the available masks, leaving health care workers without any.
Fauci injected politics into the pandemic, rather than just sticking to medicine.
And this, and other claims that turned out not to be true, have shaken the faith of the general public in any pronouncements from government officials.
A lot of people don’t know what to believe anymore.
Governments have destroyed their own credibility. That’s not good for self-governing nations.
And you believed him.
Suckah
Hey, Fauci, guess what? It’s your word against yourself. Those were quotes of what you said, fiddling with the herd immunity numbers, probably to encourage people to get vaccinated (which I think is a good idea, but a lot of people don’t). Pretty hard to weasel out of that, but you tried again. Weasel. Try being honest.
This bureaucrat,the good doctor Fauci,is the personification of “GOOD ENOUGH FOR GOVERNMENT”.
The one good thing to come from this Plandemic,is the demonstration of how useless,clueless and dangerous government help is.
For,by the numbers,Covid-19 is not a pandemic,it hardly has the death toll of a bad flu season.
The real damage,financially,spiritually and human health wise has come from the panicked reactions of persons unfit to lead.
Now,10 months into it,we still lack the most basic information,from government sources,to make informed decisions about how we shall respond to the virus and any sickness.
If you know anything about Fauci, especially during the so-called “heterosexual AIDS crisis,” Fauci has been making it up as he goes along for a long time. He is the least trustworthy public health official in history. Why Trump didn’t fire him back in March remains a mystery to me.
A “guesstimate” is still just a guess, but with a little bit of data to help reduce the range somewhat. You would not believe how many people have told me, “They are not guessing! They are scientists and Doctors and they know a lot more about it than you!”
Don’t we have enough data by now to calculate herd immunity? Do we really need to vaccinate the same (herd immunity) percent if a large percent of the population have already been infected? Even if we mostly go back to normal wouldn’t a large proportion of people still be taking a lot of precautions for a very long time?
I’m concerned the vaccine strategy may backfire and create a worse situation in the long run either because we don’t know the long term repercussions of the vaccine for us or we don’t adequately know the mutation issues. From what I can make out this (mRNA) is a new methodology, never approved before (or am I wrong?) yet they plan with no long term experience to inject almost everyone. I spent my career in engineering, development, validation, fault finding but I do not share the confidence of/in science/engineering to understand and control nature. As they say; a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I fear despite our huge advances and some successes (perhaps giving us false confidence) we may still be at that very dangerous stage of assuming we are clever enough but blissfully unaware what we are doing dangerously wrong.
Seeing these leaders etc getting vaccinated on TV to convince others reminds me of the BSE issue we had in the UK where we were wrongly told it should not transfer to humans and was definitely safe to eat and watched a minister feed a beef burger to his child to convince us all it was safe to eat beef. The scientist who was saying he thought it might transfer to humans was moved on so he could not continue his research. Are we learning the right lessons? Implementing the right procedures to avoid dangerous mistakes? It seems to me in such circumstances, when we are under great pressures, trying to be clever, messing with nature, fall back on the same arguments “no evidence of”, “we cannot see a mechanism by which” “our experience and scientific knowledge (from what we think are similar situations) tells us” we are making very dangerous assumptions.
I’ve been watching the graph for Swale in Kent, south east England where there has been a large wave starting around October, and it may be one of, or the main location where the latest variant wave started. Numbers in Swale kept rising unlike most other areas in the country despite national lockdown2 in early November so perhaps that could be suggesting (I’m no expert in any of this) this latest wave is due to the new variant and that lockdown was not adequate to bring it under control. Unfortunately I don’t know how much the Christmas holiday is delaying reporting of the numbers, I suspect there is a very big delay, but even so I’m hoping it may be looking like for Swale, and its neighbour Medway, numbers might be falling now since about 14th and 18th Dec respectively. If so, I’m wondering if Swale and Medway have reached a kind of herd immunity in the part of the population not adequately shielded, on the basis lockdown is not bringing down numbers with the new variant, so perhaps it’s a kind of herd immunity finally bringing it down.
I don’t know whether it’s coincidence but by my calculations if both Swale and Medway are now falling, they did so on about 14th and 18th December respectively and both at a point when their cumulative values since mid October reached 4.1% of the population, same % for both.
If the above is correct and we assume that 4% value is much lower than the actual because we are not testing everyone, and assume most of the infections are among the group of the population not adequately isolated, then perhaps that group have already reached a considerably larger %, enough to bring their R below 1. If all that is so, by the time the wave has fully passed in Swale/Medway in perhaps a couple of weeks(?) the cumulative value will be much higher so we can accommodate some dilution as the shielders come out of hiding. And, at this rate most of England might have reached the same situation as Swale and Medway in a couple of months? And if so, would the vaccine, then really have so much of an impact anymore? Or have I got that all wrong?
Even if we really do have no alternative but to vaccinate, wouldn’t it be better and less risky for now carefully targeting who to vaccinate, bearing in mind the above, keeping the vaccinated numbers of people as low as possible while we learn more. And have a big education campaign to show people how to eat and live more healthily, getting plenty of vitamin D, C, B, potassium, selenium, zinc, copper, etc, fresh air and exercise both to boost their immunity and reduce health issues that put them at higher risk. Plus extremely careful isolation for anyone with very poor immune system if they catch it severely and need considerable medical help in case they produce dangerous mutations.
This doctor apparently got it after getting the vaccine: https://twitter.com/dremilyportermd/status/1343237307558670337
Not surprising. It takes 10 to 14 days for the immune system to kick in after a vaccination and in this case it takes a second vaccination 3 weeks later to increase the protection. Getting the virus a week after a vaccination is just bad luck.
Fair ’nuff
I am a public health professional and am pretty embarrassed for what passes for common sense and scholarship among my peers. Though I have trouble calling them peers. As many of you have surmised this virus is not that big a deal and could have been handled very differently. We are not there yet but we don’t need 75% immunity for herd immunity. We should start seeing it kick in once we reach about 40% or even less. Herd immunity is not an all or nothing phenomena. The effect will begin gradually. But we are not at 60% immunity like some seem to think.
But I would like to comment on the fear of the mRNA virus. There have been very few long term complications from recent vaccines (there were some in the past, the biggest one being maybe the live polio vaccine). But for there to be a long term complication there has to be a mechanism by which that occurs. There is no such mechanism with an mRNA virus. This will be the safest virus we’ve ever released. Sure there is always the possibility that there is something that we don’t know about but that makes as little sense as suggesting that the models for climate change are right and the real unadulterated data is wrong.
mRNA is made of nucleotides, the same ones that make up DNA, RNA, and messenger RNA (mRNA). The way the biological system works is that your DNA encodes mRNA that is transported to the ribosomes where it is used to encode proteins. After the protein is synthesized, the mRNA is broken down into its component parts. This is constantly happening in every living cell of your body.
What this vaccine does is use that mechanism to encode for the spike protein from COVID. The vaccine is just mRNA surrounded by a lipid layer (very common in your body) that allows it to get into the cell where it is transported to the ribosomes. It predominantly gets absorbed by the cells in the muscle where it is injected. It doesn’t really travel around the body to wreck havoc somewhere else as I have seen written. At the ribosome the protein is made and the mRNA is broken down naturally. The only difference between real mRNA is in the nucleotide Uracil. For some reason some animals had allergic reactions to Uracil in testing years ago and so a synthetic uracil was created to solve that problem. But the synthetic uracil also gets broken down. There are little to no preservatives (which is why it has to be stored so cold compared to other vaccines). There are some byproducts of manufacturing remaining in the mix but these are products that have been used for many years and there is no reason to suspect that they would cause some sort of long term harm.
My personal opinion is that mRNA vaccines are the safest vaccines and the one that I will get.
Many thanks StevenF I really appreciate your very good comments on herd immunity and mRNA vaccines. I admit I know far too little on this subject, but I do think your comment does contain a lot of important helpful points.
There are several questions in my mind for the vaccine:
1) They say they don’t know if the vaccine prevents you passing the virus on. I don’t understand that; doesn’t that also then mean they don’t know if it prevents you getting the virus, (but I presume they should know if anyone caught it so it doesn’t seem to make sense to me, I must be missing something) but only that it means for 90 or 95% we see no symptoms. So does that mean a lot of vaccinated people could still catch it and pass it on; even though they may be asymptomatic, so it may still circulate even among those vaccinated, but asymptomatically? I’m not sure we understand the long term health issues yet from having had the virus, not just long covid, even for asymptomatic people. From what I can make out the body may never fully get rid of the virus, I know it may be a poor comparison, but perhaps a bit like chicken pox and then shingles attacks later in life.
2) I’m curious to know what analysis has been done on the 5% or so who still caught the virus despite the vaccine; do we understand why they still caught the virus? Did they catch a different variant, suggesting that if we all get vaccinated and go back to normal, very quickly any new resistant variant(s) might run out of control? They talk about being able to adapt the vaccine in 6 weeks, but my analysis (as a total beginner) implies to me looking at waves, e.g. the current situation with the new variant that these can develop very quickly; 6 weeks may be too slow.
Or did any suffer from a ADE (antibody dependent enhancement) and if so do we know why?
3) I definitely don’t know what I’m talking about here; but if we’re using AAV’s; Adeno-associated viral vectors to deliver the vaccine, do we know for sure how this might impact the body’s acceptance of future treatments (i.e. it rejects them so they can’t work)?
4) I thought there was a recent court case where two scientists (one a former vice president at Pfizer, plus a lung specialist) tried to halt all trials until a better design study was available to address concerns they and other scientists had. It seems to me if people of that background are prepared to go to court, perhaps we need to most carefully consider what they have to say and properly discuss it.
Thanks for the kind words. Let me take your points in order.
1) Some of these are not simple answers. In fact, the entire issue of asymptomatic transmission is something that has never been a concern before but seems to have become a major issue due to the panic of this virus and the justification for the response. No one ever really cared before whether someone got a disease but didn’t show any symptoms. I also think that the question of whether someone who is asymptomatic can easily spread the disease is unanswered. There have been studies looking at how many viruses are shed from breathing, talking, singing, and a single cough. It was something like 1.2 viruses per min for breathing, 3.4 for talking, 12 for singing (which makes singing 4 times as bad as just breathing) but then a single cough can expel millions of viruses. So there is no comparison. Given that it takes a certain amount of viral particles to infect someone, it is much more likely to occur with someone symptomatic than asymptomatic. We heard a lot about people getting sick at a choir practice. My guess is that there was someone at that choir practice who was coughing a little.
As far as vaccination research (any medical research for that matter), we are working with human beings so it is more difficult to be more specific early on. We can’t put human subjects through the same protocols that we may use for animal research. So we have to give time a chance to determine the answers.
What we know so far is that it appears that the vaccine prevents 100% of serious disease and seems to prevent 95% of mild symptoms. Whether it prevents asymptomatic is as yet unknown. I would surmise that in someone with a competent immune system, it would be unlikely for an active virus to infect enough cells to be infectious in the presence of a strong initial antibody response but it will take time to know.
As far as long term health effects from the virus. Almost all viruses have long term health effects. You just didn’t hear much about them. It became fashionable to talk about COVID long term effects because we needed a reason to make those who were at little risk of death to be worried about something. It is very unlikely that the virus will remain in your body for a long term. The virus will incorporate itself into your cell’s DNA but those cells will die off and replacement cells will not have that viral DNA. The turn over of those cells happens over a period of months not decades. Chickenpox is a herpes virus, which is a very different type of virus. Herpes viruses will lay dormant in your nerves for decades which is why long term consequences are so common.
2) There has been no evidence whatsoever that the virus domain that encodes for the spike protein has been changing. It has been very stable. It may be that viruses that mutate in that region die out because they can’t infect other cells. As of now it is very unlikely that there will be waves of COVID virus that are resistant to the spike protein antibodies.
ADE, which I am not going to go into, is always an issue. But it is something that is known though still being understood. Especially in dengue fever. There has been no evidence in any of the trials or since mass immunization has started that ADE is an issue with COVID. I am willing to bet quite a bit that there are people at Pfizer and Moderna (and the FDA) who are carefully watching for it. So yes, it is something to think about but not something to worry about. I tend to be an optimist. Others like to worry about everything. When I was in medical school a professor use to say, “when you hear hoof beats outside your room at night, think of horses, not zebras.” Zebras are possible but not likely. ADE is a zebra. I don’t worry about it but we should be aware of it.
3) The Astrazenca vaccine is an adenovirus vectored vaccine. The problem with those vaccines is that most people have antibodies to adenoviruses. They are trying to get around that by using a simian adenovirus with the idea that it will not cross react with human adenovirus antibodies. The jury is still out on it.
Remember that a virus is not a living organism. It is just a collection of nucleotides that can invade a living organism and take over the machinery of the organism to make copies of itself. What these viral vectored vaccines try to do is to remove the part of the virus that makes copies of itself and utilize the part of the virus that allows it to get taken up into a cell and inserted into the DNA. The part that is put into the DNA is only the coding for the COVID spike protein. The part that would encode for more viral particles is missing. This makes the vaccine safer than a live or killed virus vaccine.
4) I haven’t heard anything about the court case you reference.
I hope this helps.
Many thanks Steven, a very interesting reply, I’ll have to wait until later now to digest it. The only problem with this site is new articles appear so frequently, I think many useful or interesting discussions soon get lost or stop before questions answered and good conclusions can be reached so I’m grateful.
I previously stated we’ve never been lied to more as a country than we are now regarding the scamdenic… now the chief scammer himself admits he lied – in purpose.
3 months now with lockdown restrictions and 95%+ mask compliance indoors…. and nearly that much even when outside (at least here in metro northeast)… and covid deaths still increasing??? lockdowns and masks don’t work… fauci ought to be tarred and feathered in front of white house for all the peeps to see.
Mr. Fauci is an Italian Jew. That’s all you need to know.
And you are trying to discredit the man based on his ethnicity and/or religion, which is irrational and deceitful. That’s all we need to know about you, Tarrasik.
So it took a year for CNN to figure out that Fauci is actually Falsi.
Trump should have fired him the day he criticized him for the HCQ quote from a much better doctor.
Then CNN has the hypocrite Gupta who tows the CNN line. Between them and the Democrats they have killed over half a million people. When do we get a class action lawsuit?
Read:
Here are the two web sites which now have over 200 studies which show the efficacy of HCQ, Zinc and Ivermectin:
https://c19study.com/
https://hcqmeta.com/