News Brief by Kip Hansen – 4 September 2020
Despite the best efforts of Journalists from Another Galaxy (The New York Times) to convince the general public otherwise, almost no U.S. children are dying from (or even with) Covid-19.
It is easier just to show the numbers in graphic form. These are the latest figures from the CDC.
We look at All Cause Deaths first, so we have an idea of the magnitudes of general pediatric deaths in the U.S. The horizontal axis is the Week Number of the pandemic period. We just completed Week 34.
Teenagers and College-age kids die the most from all causes, at a rate of 500-800 per week. But you see even Total All Cause Deaths for this age group taper downward after 1 June 2020 (thin vertical yellow line). Under 1’s, infants, are the next most likely to die – this includes all the preemies and low-birth weight babies – infant-hood is a delicate time. Once kids get through their first year, they are pretty tough – and the Total All Cause Deaths for 1-4 and 5-14 are similar and relatively small and steady over the time period shown (the period of the U.S. Covid Pandemic).
How many kids are dying from (or even just with) Covid-19? Almost none.
Over the entire course of the U.S. Covid-19 Pandemic, as of 20 August 2020, only 337 of the reported “180,000” Covid deaths in the U.S. were persons under 25 years of age. If we look at the age group more consistent with the concept of children – we see that only 62 kids 14 and under actually died from and/or with Covid-19. Only 17 infants, Under 1.
Of course, one wishes that no kids ever had to die from anything but they do.
In 2017, the last year with finalized figures, an average of 430 Under 1’s died every week from various causes. This year, during – and in spite of — the pandemic, Under 1’s are running much lower than that. [ see All Cause chart above ]
Even the 14-25 year-olds seem to be coming down off of their higher summer death rate. Notice that the All Cause and the Covid graphs for 14-25 year-olds are different shapes. Deaths from-and-with Covid are not the cause of the rising All Cause graph for this group for weeks 0 through 23 – Covid is adding less than 25 deaths per week even in peak weeks.
Remember, all these numbers are not actual deaths, they are ICD-10 Cause of Death codes reported on death certificates sent to the CDC. Thus they will differ from real world counts of the causes of death for these kids. With pediatric Covid deaths, there are so few that they could be closely researched individually to arrive at a true number. This point is important when you hear some pundit say something like “only 6% of reported Covid deaths were caused by Covid”. That is a false representation of the CDC data.
That’s the news brief – just to keep the journalists and pundits honest.
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Author’s Comment:
My father was a pediatrician – a “baby doctor”. Every mother in our suburban Los Angles neighborhood knew where the doctor lived and our house was the “neighborhood emergency room” for all health and accident problems involving kids. I can’t tell you how many kids got stitches put in on our living room coffee table and how many times my brothers and I were called upon to be minor-surgery assistants. The mothers generally had to be taken to another room and served coffee as they were usually panicked by all the blood.
Growing up in such a home meant getting used to the idea of kids dying. And they did, rather a lot of them in those days when antibiotics were just coming into the forefront after WWII. Kids died from all sorts of things that are unthinkable in today’s Western societies. “During the 1950s an annual average of greater than 500,000 cases of measles and nearly 500 deaths due to measles were reported in the United States.“ [ source ] And that’s just measles. Our modern kids are vaccinated against almost all the “childhood illnesses” that nearly every child experienced as a matter of course when I was young.
And kids still die from the annual flu. 2016-2017 = 110 flu deaths. 2017-2018 = 188 flu deaths. 2018-2019 = 144 flu deaths. 2019-2020 = 188 flu deaths. [ source ].
Covid-19 – not so much. Even with Covid-Death-Inflation, Covid-19 is sparing the children – for which we should be grateful.
Read more – Read widely – Read critically
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Hey I got an idea–why don’t you go to teach? Schools that try to open don’t have teachers because teachers don’t want to get COVID or spread the disease. Course’ you think they are all deluded, but don’t you think it’s a good idea to have teachers for school? Or should they be forced to teach at gunpoint?
Actually, the teachers appear pretty safe too. I came across this very informative article on how COVID-19 is affecting summer school in the UK:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/911267/School_Outbreaks_Analysis.pdf
It shows that summer school teachers in the UK contracted COVID-19 at only 36% of the rate of the general population!
Here’s a summary of what I felt were the most relevant points, along with the page # or table # of each cited stat.
According to this study of summer schools in the UK from 1 June – 31 July, there were 198 total people who caught COVID-19 in their schools (page 3.) These cases include 30 “outbreaks” (page 3), where “outbreak” just means two or more people got it.
The transmission in these 30 outbreaks (page 2) was:
staff-to-staff: 15 cases
staff-to-student: 7 cases
student-to-staff: 6 cases
student-to-student: 2 cases
Assuming the student to staff ratio is 10:1 (though likely more), this shows that staff are 25 times as likely to catch COVID-19 from each individual staff member than from each individual student. Likewise, using the same assumed 10:1 student:staff ratio, students are 35 times more likely to catch COVID-19 from each individual staff member than from each individual student.
There were 519,581 staff in UK summer schools (Table 1), so having only 128 of them (page 3) contract COVID-19 (0.025%) is a very small number, especially compared to the rate of the general population in the UK (0.070%) during that same two-month period (47,254 total people contracted COVID-19 in all of the UK according to Johns Hopkins Univ., out of a total population of 67.9 million.) Therefore, teachers were only 36% as likely to contract COVID-19 than the average UK person! I couldn’t find the total number of students.
>> Actually, the teachers appear pretty safe too.
I only have anecdotal evidence, but I do believe that teachers in general have a very good immune system. Because they see a lot of diseases in their classroom.
Which might also be a strong argument against opening of anything..
if you are young and reasonably healthy, the risk of you getting seriously sick and dying is rather small, but you will act as a vector to potentially kill your granny or neighbor.
What is the reason that the death rate in USA and particular CA, FL and TX is so high? How did NYC manage to get the rate down?
I believe the answer lies in gathering of unmasked people.
How did NYC manage to get the rate down? It call herd immunity, they death rate was per million of population was the worst in the world second only to New Jersey. CA, FL and TX have a long way to go to catch New York, they should get to herd immunity at about a third of New York rate.
You are reading bad information, the high fatality areas are Democrat Party controlled states and cities. Why? Because Democrat governors, mayors, administrators and medical advisory staff insisted on forcing highly contagious patients into nursing home/long term care facilities full of people highly susceptible to succumbing to a flu strain. Now they are desperately deflecting and lying about what happened.
To make it clear, testing more people is showing more people had this flu strain, with dropping fatality numbers. That is how flu strains operate. Not complicated, virusi “burn” themselves out as they pass through a population. If you are high risk you should protect yourself, if someone in your family is high risk you should protect them. Quarantining the entire population is f**king stupid. Oh, and yes, I fall into the high risk pop and it is MY responsibility to protect myself. Just as it is yours and everyone else’s responsibility to protect yourselves.
I have an idea too… teachers who don’t teach don’t get paid! Then we’ll see how well they can calculate their risk-reward ratios properly…
My first thought on the first day of the lock downs was that if teachers and government employees didn’t get paid, there would be no lock down.
Mine too! You are so right: “calculating” risk is so easy when the calculation doesn’t involve your wages and livelihood.
Completely agreed. There would have been a deafening uproar about income denied.
Many teachers understand the low risk and want to go back. It’s mostly the teachers unions and local governments that are keeping the schools closed, most likely for political reasons. Their hope is that the harm from keeping schools closed, and they know it will be harmful, will be blamed on the current administration. It’s the same motivation used to keep the economy suppressed, for allowing the riots to persist and for defunding law enforcement.
co2isnotevil ==> Personal Message: Did yo send me a paper on he Golden Mean in Climate? I have lost it in the struggle to move my email to a new system. If you did send it, can you resend it please? Thanks.
Kip,
http://www.palisad.com/co2/chaos2gold.pdf
G
G ==> Thank you, your email was forwarded to me as well.
If you start down that path then you can do it for any risky job .. you are arguing there is nothing special about covid right. Most developed countries have laws for risk at work and you would then have to defend it against those laws.
As is usual with most work risk you need a proper risk assessment not something you thought up on a break while reading WUWT.
I agree. So, they re-open my office in downtown DC and I’m forced – against my will – to travel daily into downtown DC. So that I can go into a city I don’t like, to go into a building I don’t like, to login to a computer that lets me login to a virtual desktop, so that I can then administer a web site…. All of which I can do perfectly well from my home office – with better connection speed.
Yeah, makes perfect sense to me.
In the mean while, that commute order would subject me to a minimum of 2 hours a day of threat from people that seem it’s OK to assault old white guys because… we’re old white guys.
Think I’m making this up? I try, in all ways, to be as unobtrusive as possible. That doesn’t always work.
Believe it or not, there are those out there that will seek you out – just because you’re an old white guy. The number of times this has personally happened to me are beyond count. And that’s BEFORE the present unpleasantness. I’d hate to think what it would be like now. Actually, I KNOW what it would be like now.
Do I want to be a martyr to show the hypocrisy of this “movement”? Hell no. Especially if it were “caught on camera”. Just what I want, my family to watch me being murdered by racists. /sarc
Sadly, if I were demanded by my employer to resume commuting to DC, I would have to give it serious thought if doing so would mean taking an undo risk of my life. And I used to road race motorcycles.
Think about it.
In Australia at least there are several issues with your situation and the employer would need to check with their work cover insurance. In Australia travelling to and from work is covered under work insurance and so changing the risk drastically is an issue between the insurer and the business, asking someone to travel thru a state of emergency area or example would be problematic 🙂
The other issue is actually catching covid that could be absolutely linked to your workplace (contact tracing helps your case) would obviously fall under work cover insurance. Again the insurer may want to understand the workplace covid plan before signing off that they are happy for you to demand your employees work. They are looking down the barrel of a minimum $800K death payment probably much more for 40 year old workplace related death.
It’s probably different in the US but these are the sort of subtlety that Kip just ignores in his rant.
The risk for teacher is higher for the flu than it is for COVID, do you suggest we shut down schools every flu season?
Better yet, when parents can, homeschool.
Homeschooling added benefit, interrupting the subversive marxysparxy propagoo.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2HiZ41C_w
Gary
The downside of home schooling is that more than half of all parents have IQs less than 100, typically have less formal education than credentialed teachers, have less experience teaching, and have less access to supplementary and ancillary teaching aids such as laboratory equipment.
Clyde, it ain’t for everyone, unfortunately, but parents at least should have a hand in their children’s education. Many of those you refer to don’t go on to higher ed, and at best end up in the trades where they are given the education they require.
At greatest risk in this marxy-sparxy project are those going on into higher education. Those not in STEM may be better home-schooled by 100 IQ parents than ending up taught to hate their country, hate the Age of Enlightenment, The Age of Reason, the Industrial Revolution and made ready to tear down statues, burn cities and kill police officers.
You do know, I’m sure, what is going on in education. Here is how it all started:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2HiZ41C_w
Ironically, you would get a better classical education in Moscow today, the very place that screwed up the West’s education system.
Lots of homeschooling resources online, and local support groups depending on where a person lives.
Clyde ==> Having done a lot of all kinds:– homeschooling, regular schooling, alternative schooling and even design and program development for pre-schooling — I can tell you they all have upsides and downsides — positives and negatives.
In my own case, I learned more in my first ten years of traveling and working abroad, doing at least ten different specialties, both physical and office things, than I ever did in regular schools — Uni included.
Gary
I have more than a passing acquaintance with the educational system in the US. I spent over a decade teaching at the college and university level at the beginning of my career. Fifteen years later I was between jobs, and to help with cash flow, I got a substitute teaching credential and taught grades 3 through 12. I would recommend that every parent spend at least one day a year sitting in on their student’s classes to see what passes for education today. Yes, much of it is indoctrination rather than education. The problem is the control of unions, and that education has attracted those with a liberal bent.
” less formal education than credentialed teachers” This is a positive, teachers are the conduit of leftist anti-human, anti-American crap that is tearing our country apart. Teach your kids REAL math, how to read and write, and not to accept any leftist crap, ever. Far easier to do outside major metro areas where schools are still amenable to input from parents, and far, far easier when homeschooling. Look at the insane leftist crap being dumped on children today by teachers. You really support that?
Gotta love that “marxysparxy propagoo”, Gary. As British historian Paul Johnson details in his unspeakably revealing book ‘Intellectuals’ regarding so many idols modern academia would prefer you were not fully informed about, the seeds of the state as the best arbiter of the individual’s place in society go back 2 1/2 centuries to Jean-Jacques Rousseau. What few realize is that he anticipated that his ‘Enlightened’ mind would have been so distracted by them that he convinced his mistress to sequentially leave all 5 of their newborn children at an orphanage to be raised where the likelihood was that maybe 1 would survive to age 7. He variously rationalized that solution to his immediate personal inconvenience as benefiting them by toughening them up to eventually even positing that the ideal state had a duty to raise its future citizens from their youth. And in a supremely ironic exercise in self-delusive abstract thought, he boasted that had he kept his own children he felt sure that he would have been an ideal father to them!
They should be fired, replaced by American nonunion teachers, problems, yes multiple problems, solved.
Simply teach or don’t get paid and that money goes to parents.
VERY GOOD POINT!
Maybe teachers could learn the reality of the China Wuhan Virus.
It ain’t the apocalypse we were promised.
Eric ==> The point of this essay, despite the title supplied by the editors of WUWT, is that Covid-19 is being kind to America’s children — taking very very few.
Teachers who are young and healthy have little to fear from Covid. Teachers who are older and who have the oft-mentioned co-morbidities should take care and use their own best judgement.
The idea of teachers refusing to work out of fear of Covid is simply a type of madness.
Older teachers who have been in the classroom for several years may have less to fear than than the younger ones. After 20 years in middle and high school classrooms I had developed resistance to most of the current viruses and retired with 90 % of my sick days intact.
The unions are holding the nation hostage, threatening to strike over issues of pay, working conditions, protective gear, class sizes, technology, and anything else they can think of. They are marching with placcards like one that says, “Back to school over my dead body”. They won’t do face-to-face instruction, and they aren’t trained to deliver virtual learning.
The solution to recalcitrant teachers – and indeed for all U.S. workers who fear for their own safety – the solution to the entire shut-down – is a rather simple one.
Studies have shown that people are only infectious for about one week to 10 days. During that time, we are spreaders. What is needed are cheap, fast, at-home saliva tests, which, like an at-home pregnancy test, give results on a paper strip that changes color. Spreaders can be identified at points of entry. Students could test themselves before leaving for school and their “clear” strips collected as they enter the school building. Everybody could purchase a multi-test kit from Costco, enough for, say, 14 daily tests, and test ourselves before we go to work or school. Knowing we are infectious (even asymptomatically), we take responsibility for our actions and stay home.
Such antigen tests were being manufactured in small labs as early as February, but were held up by FDA because of claims they weren’t “accurate” like the “gold standard” RT-PCR tests. The RT-PCR (naso-pharyngeal swab) tests are sensitive enough to detect the disease in incubation, with a few thousand virions in solution, or the uninfectious viral fragments from the long tail of your convalescence. These appear to comprise the bulk of “positives”. They are not false positives but they are a wild goose chase. It’s my impression that the paper antigen tests are being smeared by the charge that they are “inaccurate” because they are simply not designed to be as sensitive as the diagnostic test. They are a screening test, while the other is really a clinical diagnostic test. It’s also my impression that most people extrapolate the term “less sensitive” to mean “inaccurate”. The saliva test seems to be as accurate as the RT-PCR test, some claim near 100% accurate at detecting the high viral loads of CT 32 and lower (the lower the cycle number the higher the viral load). They are doing what they are designed for: detecting high loads of virus which are prevalent during our short 7-10 days of infectiousness. Claims that they are not accurate are NOT ACCURATE.
The spit test should be subsidized heavily by the government so that anyone can purchase a multi-test kit, with each individual test running around $1 apiece. People should test daily.
It is solely screening frequency that makes any testing program worthwhile. The “gold standard” laboratory tests whose results you don’t see for two or three weeks, costing upwards of a hundred dollars and requiring a physician’s orders, may serve well in clinical settings or to verify a positive spit test, but the country cries out for the immediate result that can be delivered by these screening tests.
A massive investment should be made to manufacture and distribute a simple spit test, a subsidy which represents a fragment of the trillions the shut-down is costing us. It could be taken in the privacy of your home, costs little, and deliver results in 15 minutes. Because it can be self-administered daily people could reclaim their lives from intrusive testing methods and forced shut-downs of their businesses. Health authorities may (or may not) need not be involved in purchases or results but would need to expedite the requisite number of test kits as they are requested and needed.
One of Trump’s recent statements was that he wants to challenge the FDA’s imperial stance on their control of laboratory developed tests (LDTs). Whether this Trump delicately loosing one of his trial balloons or he actually got it done, I’m not aware. But if he wants to get re-elected he should use all his deal-making acumen to get the CDC, NIAID and FDA to collaborate to promote a handfull of the best (there are many) rapid-result paper spit tests for use strictly at home (without any reagents or machine readers or online screening). The issues of the test’s accuracy, its manufacture, materials and availability are dealt with at the link below, if anyone is interested. The website is Medcram.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Sv_pS8MgQ
There are several follow-on interviews with the Harvard infectious disease doctor Michael Minna who is advocating for this. But it’s not just him. It was a paper rapid test that Joe Biden is promissing if elected. And Minna’s boss, Ashish Jah, (former) head of the Harvard Global Health Institute, who has become a popular item on PBS and NPR also advocates for the rapid-result tests. From his his own paper on the topic.
https://time.com/5873444/radically-rethink-covid-19-testing-approach/
According to some recent claims, herd immunity won’t be reached until a population surpasses a threshhold of around 70 – 80% exposure. I’d like to think it was lower and that we’re closer than we think. But whatever the number, it’s certain that children and others who are getting back to business will carry the disease home to others. There will be more regional spikes of infection throughout the country necessitating more shut-downs, and it will continue its spread into the elder care facilities through their providers, where it is already a conflagration.
Months ago I embraced a “let it rip” strategy – or lack thereof – which anticipated a quick herd immunity response. If New York is any example, we’re not close enough.
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/business/world-first-disposable-covid-19-test-that-gives-results-in-under-10-minutes-developed-by-sense-biodetection-9106892/ is a good place to start. I cannot find any further info on this promising UK technology. Any help?
Good post Bill. But why do you think NY is not close to heard immunity?
WM website appears to show it is.
It wasn’t a good example. A more accurate statement and a better conclusion might have been, “New York has paid an intolerable price for achieving its herd immunity. It isn’t the model we should follow as a nation.
What makes teachers so special? If teachers don’t work because of COVID, why should anyone else? Do they believe the only place to get COVID is at school?
It would be interesting to see how long this situation would last if other workers demanded the same luxury as teachers. Imagine a whole semester’s time without electricity, water, internet, phones, natural gas for your home, or gasoline for your car because those workers are afraid to leave their home.
If you say teachers can teach online, many of the parents I know believe their children learned nothing online during the spring semester. Other parents think they learned at most half of what they should have. If 0%-50% is acceptable for teaching, teachers should be satisfied with 0%-50% phone or electrical service. I have the feeling that would not be the case.
0 to 50% pay.
Are there many teachers in public schools anymore? Haven’t most of them been replaced by Marxist handlers hired to indoctrinate children? Asking for a friend!
There are plenty of under 40 teachers in great health that would LOVE to get back in the classroom.
Wharfplank ==> There are plenty of newly graduated teachers that would love to get their first teaching jobs as well.
Well yeah, some are deluded.
My wife works in aged care – she and her colleagues still work
Police still work
Bus drivers still work
There are countless jobs that still require multiple daily contacts with people.
Why are teachers special?
One of my daughters teachers has an auto immune disease and doesn’t want to work – I’m cool with that, but most teachers are young.
They are special because of their special relationship with the democrat party through their union’s monetary and election day get out the vote support.
Children and teachers are safe-
“this week the CDC quietly updated the Covid number to admit that only 6% of all the 153,504 deaths recorded actually died from Covid. 9,210 deaths . The other 94% had 2 to 3 other serious illnesses and the overwhelming majority were of very advanced age; 90% in nursing homes”
153,304 is not the COVID-9 death toll of last week or even two weeks ago. That number is about a month old. And even if only about 10,000 Americans died of COVID-19 without co-morbidities such as diabetes, there are still a lot of Americans who have these co-morbidities tht make them more vulnerable to COVID-19.
And 61000 died of flu the year before and no schools closed
So why would you possibly favor closing schools now?
Eric Lerner
September 3, 2020 at 10:12 am
In a free will free choice world, those who do not want to teach do not have to, but those who do have got to.
Only on the clause of autocracy can it be otherwise.
Regardless of any silly innuendos.
As far as USA constitution stands, it upholds the power of the people, the power of proper free will free choice, over the proposition of any autocracy.
Was there before Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Himmler, Hitler, Mussolini or Billy G or BS, and still effective in prohibiting the attempt of such criminals on taking over, thus far.
Got to really appreciate it mate.
Too bad that many so called Americans these days, not only completely failing to appreciate their constitution, but actually engaged in acts of treason against their own nation, their own people and their own insurance, the constitution.
Really too bad… very ugly indeed… unbelievable to a point.
cheers
Eric, don’t be an idiot. These same teachers have no problem going wo walmart or target, going to restaurants and bars, asking kids to deliver their meals via grub hub, or protesting with antifa. if pneumonia/flu season is a nothing burger in the usa every year (which I guess it is because teachers show up to class from Nov-apr very year), then they should not be afraid because Covid 19 ended up being a nothing burger for most of the general population… nothing worse than a bad flu season. The data is out there. read it. those who have eyes to see…. see.
Hey, I got an idea. Don’t leave your domicile. Something bad might happen.
What college student in their right mind would put up with this?
https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1301393928873299969
And any parent who doesn’t direct their child into a right mind to reject this insanity is guilty of child abuse.
Icisil: I separately school proofed my children and a grandchild by discussing alternative ideas, logic, getting them to read and surf ideas critical of the “preferred” and generally to think for themselves. I think people are more and more waking up to the mind abuse in our schools and universities. I scouted universities in Japan, India and others away from the corrupted West as possibilities for my grandson. Look up ‘Best Universities’ in some of these places. You’ll be surprised: New Delhi, anywhere in Japan, even Moscow and Beijing! Don’t take polisci, sociology or any of the totally screwed up family of the humanities anywhere. Oxford Cambridge, Harvard and the like may be irredeemable.
Everyone knows that children do not SUFFER with Covid but each child has a number of adults who are in proximity at home it is THESE people are at risk.
These people then mix with others and you then get a spike.
Young adults are also going to colledge and “upper” schools. What is their risk?
The 14 to 18 year olds will return home daily passing on whatever they have picked up from teachers/classmates and you get a spike
How are the teachers protected against the virus carried into their classrooms . Many children (most) will not be wearing masks making transfer easier.
Have you got children? Have you noticed that you often get colds and flu. Our children have now left home, It is surprising how infrequently we now get viruses.
UK schools are back. It will be interesting to see the statistics in 10 to 20 days!
“and you get a spike”
And so what?
Catching the Wuhan is not a death sentence.
If everybody hides and wears a mask all day, all you are doing is lengthening the time of the disease.
This, to me, is the key and is what I’ve been preaching to friends and family since the beginning. You can’t keep running from something that you’re likely to catch at some point.
Also, see Sweden.
They started by claiming they wanted to flatten the curve. Essentially, we would all eventually be exposed, but medical facilities needed to have time to ramp up their ability to handle the severe cases. Well, now they are essentially trying to keep everyone from ever getting it. They keep moving the goal posts.
Jeff in Calgary September 3, 2020 at 12:08 pm
… Well, now they are essentially trying to keep everyone from ever getting it. They keep moving the goal posts.
————-
No they are not trying to stop everyone getting it. All they want is to prevent it getting out of control before vaccine control is available.
Right you are, Jeff. I live in Edmonton, so I know the situation in Alberta. The question I would ask myself was, why is Deena Hinshaw obsessed with case numbers, when hospitalization figures are the critical metric in flattening the curve? Then I figured out that Dr. Hinshaw wants to keep the R-effective less than 1. If she can do that, with successive generations of infection being less numerous than the ones before them, eventually the number of new cases will fall to zero. Of course, the virus spreads exponentially in uninfected populations in the absence of the suppression protocols, such that one infected person would quickly generate a resurgence in the absence of them. So Dr. Hinshaw wants to keep the protocols in place for years into the future. That’s about as far as she has thought it out.
Dr. Hinshaw has been lionized in the local press, but she seems primarily concerned with saving the health care system from collapse. In Dr. Hinshaw’s mind, the health care system is not designed to serve Albertans. Albertans have a duty to serve the health care system, by enduring widespread (and in many cases, severe) economic hardship in the service of suppressing the spread of the virus.
Dr. Hinshaw works in the healthcare system, as do all her friends and workmates. She doesn’t seem to care very much about people who work in restaurants or movie theatres or many retail outlets, or for airlines. I’m not saying she’s a bad woman, but her policies are doing a lot of damage to people she doesn’t know and will never meet. She says, we’ll have to learn to live with it. But the “we” that comprises her and her friends is distinct and insulated from the “we” that will face bankruptcy and eviction.
You catching the virus, dying/living/suffering with long term problems is absolutely no problem to me or 99.9999999% of the population.
You catching and spreading the virus to the rest of the US including old politicians in the US (including the POTUS) gives me in the uk no worries. In fact please give it to the old politicians the world may be a better place!
The problem is you will be infecting travellers to the UK thus spreading it further. For although the UK forces travellers from the US to isolate in the UK for 2 weeks Jared Corey Kushner seems to have bypassed this requirement.
You seem to be ignoring the problem of passing this on to others less capable of withstanding the disease. If this virus gets out of control only untested vaccines wil fix it!
Ghalfrunt: ignoring the problem of passing this on to others less capable of withstanding the disease
No. That is why the vulnerable should be isolated as much as they want or can be. An independent 90 year old living on their own can make their own call. Those in nursing homes rely on the staff and visitors following protocol.
Ghalfrunt: If this virus gets out of control only untested vaccines wil fix it!
LOL. No they won’t. Do check into how quickly this thing is making changes. Iceland did some great research in that regard.
Last point. If you want to start looking into the details please check out Dr Levitt’s work from early on until now. He has been correct where Fauci, WHO, politicians and the media have all been wrong repeatedly. Here is his latest:
Countering the Second Wave with Facts, not Misconceptions
By: Udi Qimron, Uri Gavish, Eyal Shahar, Michael Levitt
https://www.dropbox.com/s/72hi9jfcqfct1n9/Haaretz-20Jul20_ENGLISH%2012082020%20v3.pdf?dl=0
Some highlights for you:
Pre-immunity. No country has got more than 20% infected before it died out.
In several closed communities that underwent testing, the infection rate was always capped at 20%, which statistically aligns with maximal infection rate in these communities rather than recurring coincidences.
In Sweden the infection rate did not exceed 20% and the percentage of people who survived the epidemic exceeds 99.9% of the population.
In Belgium, the country with the highest population mortality rate, where less than 20% were infected, and more than 99.9% of the population has survived.
Immediate removal of most restrictions on the economy, immediate return to normal life of low-risk population while helping high-risk groups reduce the rate of social contacts is in order.
TRM, excellent response, and then factor in the health consequences of unemployment, loss of job, depression, stress induced diseases, divorce, etc…
( So then the shut down becomes more deadly then the virus) Can the depressed unemployed not allowed to work, sue the decision makers?
Lowest common denominator is for arithmetic, not logic and policy. Those most at risk should quarantine and we should make this possible for them. Everyone else needs to keep society running. Unless you are severely vitamin D deficient or happen to catch a severe case of one of these https://www.cdc.gov/pneumonia/causes.html (also less likely unless you are vitamin D deficient) at the exact same time you will likely not even know you have it.
Ghalfrunt,
You say ‘ If this virus gets out of control’.
How ‘in control’ do you think the virus is?
As far as i can see the attempts to ‘control’ the virus have all dramatically failed in all countries where it was attempted. Sure if you compare a modeled guess with an observational guess some could claim maybe the PARTIAL lockdowns had some effect but there is NO PROOF of anything!
Please keep in mind that for most countries the percentage of the population which has been tested is well below 10% just have a look at worldometer data for number of tests per 1 million people. Even the US is only around 25% tested, and with a large percentage of infected but showing NO SYMPTOMS how can anyone possibly claim that they have any idea how effective the ‘control’ measures are????
Or how many people are actually infected or have been infected and recovered without even noticing?
Or How close are we to ‘herd immunity?
The simple fact is that no one knows!
I know this for a fact because the data one would need to claim that they know simply does not exist.
Anyway, sorry for the rant but i get so sick of being bombarded continually with people claiming all sorts of thing regarding this pandemic without any factual basis for anything.
The good news is that here in Brazil we seem over the hump in cases and fatalities.
Stay sane,
Willem
Hey Ghalfrunt aren’t you the one who told people to drink bleach?
derg you are so funny – and as intelligent as the POTUS
Dude you should be ashamed.
Those were both complements.
Always got to be a dick, don’t you half-ass?
Ghalfrunt ==> Children who are sick should be kept home as usual. Teachers who are sick should stay home.
I raised four children of my own (well, my wife did most of the work) and two foster babies. My wife and i did not get sick from our children.
Colds are not dangerous, and the flu is — every year — and we do not close schools (in general) during flu season. The school year coincides with flu season through January or February (depending on locale). Most people are at little to no risk from Covid-19 in any case.
My advise — do your own research. quit reading the newspaper and watching CNN or NPR. They are spewing misinformation.
JFW
Kip Hansen September 3, 2020 at 12:08 pm
Ghalfrunt ==> Children who are sick should be kept home as usual. Teachers who are sick should stay home.
—————–
too late they have infected others. Young children do not show many symptoms anyway
=======
KH
… Colds are not dangerous, and the flu is — every year — and we do not close schools (in general) during flu season.
———-
Colds and flu do not leave you disabled.
…same thing
What Are Flu Complications?
What Are the Most Common Complications?
They include viral or bacterial pneumonia, dehydration, and ear infections and sinus infections, especially in children. The flu can worsen long-term medical conditions, like congestive heart failure, asthma, or diabetes.
You might also have muscle inflammation (myositis), problems with your central nervous system, and heart problems such as heart attacks, inflammation of the organ (myocarditis), and inflammation of the sac around it (pericarditis).
==========
Long term outcomes in survivors of epidemic Influenza A (H7N9) virus infection
Abstract
Patients who survive influenza A (H7N9) virus infection are at risk of physical and psychological complications of lung injury and multi-organ dysfunction. However, there were no prospectively individualized assessments of physiological, functional and quality-of-life measures after hospital discharge. The current study aims to assess the main determinants of functional disability of these patients during the follow-up. Fifty-six influenza A (H7N9) survivors were investigated during the 2-year after discharge from the hospital. Results show interstitial change and fibrosis on pulmonary imaging remained 6 months after hospital discharge. Both ventilation and diffusion dysfunction improved, but restrictive and obstructive patterns on ventilation function test persisted throughout the follow-up period. For patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome lung functions improved faster during the first six months. Role-physical and Role-emotional domains in the 36-Item Short-Form Health Survey were worse than those of a sex- and age-matched general population group. The quality of life of survivors with ARDS was lower than those with no ARDS. Our findings suggest that pulmonary function and imaging findings improved during the first 6 months especially for those with ARDS, however long-term lung disability and psychological impairment in H7N9 survivors persisted at 2 years after discharge from the hospital.
Flu causes more deaths among children than COVID ever would. In the entire state of Colorado, there have been no COVID deaths of anyone under the age of 10. A hand full of youngsters die of the flu every season, however.
In Boulder County, CO, there have been no deaths of anyone below the age of 50 and no hospitalizations of anyone below the age of 20. Influenza is far far worse in an average year.
Ghalfrunt.,
You wrote: “Colds and flu do not leave you disabled.”
Not if such kills you first.
Otherwise expect lingering effects:
https://healthfully.com/the-after-effects-of-the-flu-3910062.html
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-complications#1
Another thought: Rheumatic fever is a real bummer, although rare in the USA – now.
Lots of middle age and older folks have new heart valves to go along with their “I survived rheumatic fever” stickers.
Note to Governor: Flatten society or we are all doomed.
The premise of your comment is the Wuhan Virus is terrible – worse than anything we’ve seen in a long time. But this is a lie. It is fact free hysteria.
The Wuhan Virus is presented as a grizzly bear, but it’s more like a coyote. It is an opportunistic killer, preying on the weak, aged, and sickly. It most certainly is NOT an apex predator!
You should see the Rube Goldberg crap schools here in PA are doing. And they are already complaining students are uncooperative and belligerent. Only been 2 days.
Great post Kip. I do hope your advice is taken. The children will all go to school, catch the virus, and bring it home to mom and dad. Even better if grandma and grandpa live in the house with these kids.
Heh, here is the email I sent Kip earlier: “When people push back by saying kids can bring it home to grandma, you are welcome to say I came up with the title. “
William Teach ==> Is your real name William Teach? as in Blackbeard the Pirate? Just curious.
At this point in the pandemic, nearly everyone who will every be exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus has already been exposed. That’s how these diseases spread. You can not stop the eventual spread of an influenza like SARS-CoV-2. You could maybe (ill-advisedly, slow the spread a tiny bit). It would be the rare person who has not yet been exposed by someone somewhere. Exposure does not mean getting Covid-19 disease.
Households with high risk members — people like me, by the way — should use common sense and follow the advice of their personal physician (not some TV pundit).
Locking those children in a home with their high-risk relatives is akin to reckless endangerment.
We need to listen to the scientists. And if the scientists disagree with the Democrats / leftists, then we need new scientists.
Garold ==> The country has gone mad following the advice of “Experts” who are spewing politicized pseudo-science.
The world has been dealing with influenza outbreaks for a very long time. Covid-19 is no worse than a very very bad flu season, and may even be more benevolent than most flues– see the essay. It is the mishandling of the pandemic that has caused so many problems.
Opinions may vary — they usually do.
Exactly. I think of some of these “experts” as professional trial doctors. You can find anyone to say anything if the price (or fame for a day) is right. Fauci has long been known to be a quack going back to the ’80’s. Yet, here he is, inadvertently dictating policy without any answer-ability.
COVID is already worse than a very bad flu season and it is still in progress. COVID is an extraordinary flu and if you think otherwise, then you’re not thinking at all.
It’s not easy to estimate how many people die from flu because no one actually dies directly from the flu — they die from major organ failures, usually lungs, and having a flu infection may be noted on the death certificate. Or maybe not. The CDC traditionally estimates flu deaths with a computer model. Doctors sat their estimates are much too high. So I suppose COVID death estimates will be much too high too. But the CDC is not trying to inflate COVID deaths — just inaccurate bureaucrat business as usual.
Because flu death rate is so low, except for SARS1 and MERS, far more important is how many people suffered, what percentage went to the hospital, and what percentage went to the ICU.
Versus COVID, ordinary influenza may have far fewer infections with no symptoms but also sends a smaller percentage to the hospital, and a smaller percentage to the ICU. The COVID death rate may only be 0.1 percent but even that is high compared with other influenza results, except for SARS1 at about 10 percent deaths and MERS at about 35 percent deaths — both of which did not infect many people.
Richard ==> SARS-CoV-2 is a very very bad flu. It is not, however, the Spanish flu of 1918 — nor anywhere near it — doesn’t even come close.
The mishandling of the pandemic (everywhere) is what has caused excessive deaths.
Yes.
“The mishandling of the pandemic (everywhere) is what has caused excessive deaths.”
Perhaps so, perhaps likely so. I would like to read more on this.
David a. ++> Try the blog of William Briggs….
https://wmbriggs.com/
The 1918 flu is a red herring — compared to that flu all other flu’s are no big deal.
The big decline in driving reduced deaths from traffic accidents. More working from home and less driving are likely to be a permanent change. Social distancing also reduced ordinary influenza infections. Who knows what 29 million people collecting unemployment compensation and failed small businesses will mean to health in the long run.
It is impossible to know what would have happened if the US did things differently. We do know in the past that sick people were locked down and healthy people were not.
Thee pandemic is still in progress, and we don’t know what will happen when it gets colder and more people spend more time inside. We do know kids were the safest group, which was good news. Yet their schools were closed … while nursing homes were not well protected.
Perhaps the worst thing is that so msny people thought they were experts and the scence illiterate politicians misdiagnosed the problem, and then applied the wrong solutions.
Yet no matter how this ends the politicians will claim they saved a huge number of lives, this was all Trump’s fault, Russia was involved, and everything would have been better if Biden had been president.
Richard ==> I agree with you here: “the science illiterate politicians misdiagnosed the problem, and then applied the wrong solutions. “.
Kip Hansen
September 3, 2020 at 4:23 pm
According to the latest CDC reporting and standing, in consideration of the USA data.
By the merit of that evidence, yes, it could be claimed that;
“SARS-CoV-2 is a very very bad flu”,
as it, happens to be the first ever to be considered with a 0.0 fatality rate,
like no one before.
Maybe CDC has got it wrong!
What do you think Kip, has CDC got it wrong at this point?
This is based in specific point of evidence, as per the CDC analysis.
Non assumptive, or hypothetical or a guess.
Fatality rate, considered to be 0.0, or zero point zero… for the “SARS-CoV-2” disease…
as in pure maths or otherwise… according to the USA data, as per CDC.
If you do not believe me, please ask Willies. 🙂
cheers
Whiten ==> SARS-CoV-2 certainly does not have a 0.0 death rate — and I don;
‘t believe Willis said so.
Kip Hansen
September 4, 2020 at 4:11 pm
Whiten ==> SARS-CoV-2 certainly does not have a 0.0 death rate — and I don;
‘t believe Willis said so.
=====================
Kip,
Thank you for your reply and consideration.
But you see, one is free to believe whatever it wants to believe.
But you see, regardless of whatever you may believe at, still according to the latest CDC standing and findings as per Willis information and explanation on this particular issue;
“SARS-CoV-2 disease certainly does have a 0.0 death rate.”
Willis statement in explanation of this:
“But only 6% of those people actually died of the coronavirus alone … meaning that we’ve had about 9,680 people who died of Coronavirus-19.
…
And that is a nationwide death rate of 0.003% … and a before and after difference of 17 times. (see note- AW).”
For the lack of a better word that to me reads as a 0.0 or as otherwise could be put, a zero point zero death rate.
Kip you actually either believing in the proposition of a certainty or are certain on what you believe, as per this issue.
Not quite workable if such believe of yours contradicts a certain finding based in a certain evidence.
cheers
Whiten ==> I will make one last try here.
It is a misrepresentation of the CDC data to say that ““But only 6% of those people actually died of the corona-virus alone “.
Doesn’t matter who said that — it is a false statement on its face and one of the usual failures of our age. It is using numbers in place of information to create a falsehood.
It would be true to say that “on death certificates available to the CDC for their report as of 22 August, only 6% were coded with a single ICD-10 code – and no other – indicating cause of death as confirmed or suspected or assumed SARS-CoV-2. ”
But the CDC report is about reports. . . not real dead people.
Kip Hansen
September 5, 2020 at 7:04 am
Whiten ==> I will make one last try here.
It is a misrepresentation of the CDC data to say that ““But only 6% of those people actually died of the corona-virus alone “.
——————————————–
Thanks again Kip.
Let me try once more and see about.
Very clever point Kip, you make there.
Let me correct it for you, so you may try it again, if you like;
““But only 6-7% of those people actually died with the corona-virus disease“.
Will this be considered by you as a misrepresentation of CDC data?
Many many more died with old age, and with other “comorbidities”.
(in higher percentiles)
What about the death rate there?
No any?
Well,
you are saying Willis misrepresented the CDC, in this particular.
Noted.
Well, after you first said that:
“I don‘t
believe Willis said so.”
Believe it or not Willis said so.
0.003% death rate. same as zero point zero.
As in both the death rate does not even exist or has any meaning or value for consideration. Just smoke in the wind.
cheers
Whiten => The point is not worth beating to death (pun intended). Many many pundits are bleating the same misrepresentation like a flock of sheep.
It is true only in the sense</b) I stated. it.
Everything else is a misrepresentation.
Kip Hansen
September 6, 2020 at 8:57 am
————-
Kip, thanks again.
But choice of words Kip.
You are putting a considerable weight in the proposition of the word
“misrepresentation”.
No body is perfect Kip.
So you can utilize that word on beating to death any argument.
But still by default it does not mean misleading or wrong.
Common sense always could be considered as misrepresentation of a given, if one decides to beating it to the death, Kip.
As you say Kip;
“But the CDC report is about reports. . . not real dead people.”
And death rate Kip, is simply a main figure of/for such reports.
We were talking about death rate Kip, weren’t we…not real dead people.
When it comes to real deaths Kip, in my reality I can tell you that at least two people died
specifically due to COVID-19, by jumping from the third and fourth floor of the hospital, when in stable condition.
Let you decide if they died due to human genius or human stupidity in consideration of this issue. But definitely they died in the relation and meaning of COVID-19.
As otherwise they would not have.
You should know and be told Kip that this:
“It is true only in the sense</b) I stated. it.
Everything else is a misrepresentation."
Is a claim that could come only from some one that arrogantly believes to be an absolute
perfectionist, and the rest simply a mater of misrepresentation.
Breaking the word Kip it is considered as worst than breaking the rules or the order of things.
Always the word will be considered by default as misrepresentation of reality, by the "absolutely perfect" guys… who will not much bother of explaining their point or position
beyond the basic claim of "misrepresentation".
But in the end it means nothing from that perspective… zero point zero.
But hey, don't let me spoil it for you.
You still have failed to clearly state that my stand happens to be a misrepresentation of this particular arguable point.
cheers
Whiten ==> Well, good luck with your life and career.
The old saw that “Tea map is not the territory” applies. ICD-10 codes are just that. every death cert contains one of more (usually more) ICD-10 codes. Codes are not dead people. ICD-10 codes are assigned by coroners — some coroners are careful and exacting — some are harried and hurried and sloppy. If a death cert has more than one ICD-10 code, that does not mean the dead person did not die from the the code in the box for Primary Cause.
You should read the explanation on the CDC page that gave the report: here’s the link again
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-W/vsak-wrfu
Kip Hansen
September 6, 2020 at 4:30 pm
Kip we are talking about a problem where and when;
a certain condition recorded in ICD-10 it clearly and strongly supports the code in the box for Primary Cause… but only for 6-7% of all cases with the same Primary recorded.
That is a big big problem there Kip, reflected and found in the data.
So either that is due to some sloppiness of people when recording things, or something like that similar, as you say, or
it is a clear case of huge colossal misdiagnoses… in which case the death rate in question becomes meaningless and void.
Everything is possible Kip till further investigated and properly analyzed …
but as it stands it puts a big big question mark in almost all we think we know about this novel corona virus infection and its disease.
Thank you for your concern, noted and appreciated.
cheers
https://youtu.be/7leWXMr3ayk
ROFLMAO, now I see, arrested development, adult children. It must be hard being a child in an adult body.
Honestly, based on the curriculum that seems to be waiting for them, I’m going to advance the heretical opinion that nothing could be worse that for these kids to be returned to clutches of the state.
Joel ==> Quoting Paul Simon: “When I think back On all the crap I learned in high school It’s a wonder
I can think at all.”
Except they’re shoveling that crap a lot earlier these days.
I’d also point out how many teachers have been arrested in these riots – sorry ‘protests’.
Think of burning buildings next time you vote for a school funding bill.
RFK Jr addressed a crowd of hundreds of thousands in Germany and even joked about how the press was saying “He’s giving a speech to 5,000 nazis” and then after the speech they will say “3,000 to 5,000 nazis”. LMAO.
The first protest in Germany on August 1st was reportedly “20,000” when absolute minimum from the photos would be half a million.
“Thank goodness for the media saving the day. Putting it all in perspective in a responsible way.” – The Offspring
Kip
Thanks for putting the deaths of children into historical context and for the wonderful personal story from the 1950s. I remember the first polio doses being given and being at school with someone debilitated by polio. Like many of my friends I had both measles and mumps – unlike none of my children. What is most disturbing is when adults and parents allow an Irish woman journalist recently to publish the inflammatory lie, Reopening of schools akin to sending teachers and pupils into a building guaranteed to catch fire.
Michael in Dublin ==> The press is complicit in the creating and fanning of worldwide panic . . . for political reasons for the most part.
Children used to have measles and the other childhood diseases, when they were a joke. Now they are awful. What happened?
niceguy ==> Measles were never a joke — they were just unavoidable. Kids in the US died of the measles….lots of them — about 500 per year on average in the 1950s.
It is awful today that some kids die from measles because it is (almost) entirely preventable through vaccination.
Of all the children who died how reliable was the test that showed they HAD Covid?
Derg ==> No more reliable than for anyone else. Remember, they are not counting kids dead from Covid — they are counting ICD-10 codes reported to the CDC about pediatric deaths.
I am not a fan of too much school. In the travels of my parents, I attended 9 schools before I finished highschool, and that included 7 solid years of correspondence courses. When I got to be 13, no one could make me do them, so I had a 3 year hiatus. At 17 I went to baording school, because they said I could start grade 11 and stay in the class if I managed. The only problem was it took me 6 weeks to catch up in math.
The difference was that all the time I was out of school, I had books (6 a fortnight from England and all the paperbacks left by visitors), I spent many mornings assisting in a clinic (knew the different lung sounds for pneumonia vs TB), cooked lunch for 8-12 all weekdays, hung out on all sorts of devleopment projects, even helped do a top overhall on a landrover (stood me in good stead when I did same on my motorbike), made all my clothes after tearing down a 1901 treddle sewing machine that was seized due to oiling with penut oil, fixed my own punctures in my bike, and ….. From grade 3 I never spent more than 2 hours on schoolwork, and no one complained about a 9 Y/O making a little fire to cook. With my brothers we played tag in a banyan tree, made forts, roasted unripe grains over fires, played with firecrackers. We all survived, but sometimes it was a close run thing.
Got to say, the environment for kids now is pretty sterile. Perhaps even school is preferable to hours on a ‘device’.
Teachers are a good mix now of those really scared (the gubmint and media have grown this fear), and those who are very happy be paid not to work. To solve the situation, the fear mongering has to stop, and pay has to stop.
Fran ==> Great story! Thanks for sharing your personal experience.
I have had to quit sharing stories of my childhood with 20-something parents as they get too freaked out or think I am making things up.
With pediatric Covid deaths, there are so few that they could be closely researched individually to arrive at a true number.
Dr. Birx PROMISED that we would receive … “granular” … data as the pandemic progressed. OK. Where is the granular data? How many children have been killed by JUST the effects of the CHINA Pox? Where’s my DAMN granular data?
And why did it take weeks and weeks and weeks for Gavin Newsom to finally admit that MOST of the Summer SPIKE in cases and deaths were centered in the Hispanic community? Ohhhhh yeahhhh … it took his handlers some time to SPIN that “granular” data into some income-inequality nonsense … into some “essential worker” nonsense.
Fact is … the LEFT are LOVING this Panic!! And the last thing they want is “granular” data. They want big broad meaningless stats such as … number of cases. LIES of omission are insidious lies. Calculating lies.
“Systemic Racism” is a slanderous myth. Systemic paranoia is real and really awful.
Diversity dogma (i.e. color judgments, class-based taxonomy), not limited to racism, sexism, is a progressive condition. Denying individual dignity, denying individual conscience, normalizing color blocs, color quotas, practicing affirmative discrimination, is not quite as wicked as their other solution, but wicked nonetheless.
There is even a new pseudoscience movement claiming that race is a social construct. Think about that, social constructs are a choice, whether consciously or subconsciously. In a world that mad you will see white people claiming to represent and speak for Native Americans and POTUS candidates claiming you ain’t black if you have trouble deciding whether to vote for him … oh sht.
Hello, Mr. Turner. The notion that race is a social construct is meant to imply that racial discrimination is based on distinctions that are arbitrary, and have no objective basis in real world group capacities. That is, racial prejudice is based on the delusion that there are objective differences in population capacities between the races. But so what? Anyone who says that race is a social construct is left with the problem that it is a universally understood social construct, with real consequences for real people, and is impossible to emend or avoid.
Beauty is a social construct. This doesn’t mean that it isn’t a handicap to lack beauty, does it?
Let me get these here fascinating childhood death rate graphs straight. In early normal winter weeks of this year about 600 under one year olds died weekly of all causes, which would include the toll of seasonal viral flu on them. In March through May this year that escalated to around 750 weekly deaths (only apparently duplicated a few weeks delayed in the 5-14 year old pediatric age range and presumably reflecting the Covid19 burden over that interval which tease out in both groups as bimodal double peaks in the dedicated Covid19 graph) and since then this has all been collapsing in every pediatric age group toward zero (!) by August. So would this latter plunge be evidence of at least the arrival of herd immunity, if not the wide use of some newly arrived prophylactic elixir preventive of all cause childhood fatality? America wants to know.
Doc Chuck ==> I think you are confusing some of the traces in the All Causes graph.
The top-most trace in All Causes is 15-24 year=olds. It rises through the pandemic weeks (notice where the 1 June yellow line is) and then drops. The Covid trace for 15-24 year-olds has two features to note: 1) the SCALE — the highest number of deaths for any week is 24. 2) The 15-24 year-old Covid trace is an entirely different shape. Covid deaths add almost nothing to the all Cause number.
For 5-14 year-old, the highest week for Covid deaths is 3….Most weeks are 1 or 0. indiscernible in the all Cause graph, which is about 90-100 per week.
The top blue line is 15-24 year old dudes and babes, not to be confused with the lower blue line representing those infantile ones, and it is only the former that shows a statistically significant elevation during the March-May interval. Got it, and much obliged.
The late plunge is because CDC data takes about a month to fully get entered into the system for some reason, hence the grey box on the first graph, with the note “Grey Weeks may be incompletely reported and subject to later revision”. This is normal with all CDC death data. The most recent month is garbage. I assume Kip included it to avoid people claiming he was leaving off current data to hide some massive spike.
Douglas ==> Yes, it is important to understand what the numbers are that the CDC is passing around. They do include this caveat in the long explanation below their figures — but many do not read those — they just look at a graph.
Many also think that the numbers represent real dead people — which they do not. They represent reports of ICD-10 codes on death certs filed with CDC.
Another, clearer in my view, way to see it is at an outfit in Europe called statista. Search “Italy coronavirus deaths by age groups statista” Then do Sweden. One severe lockdown, one open society with personal responsibility. If I were Emperor: 0-40, live your lives as you normally would. 41-60, live your life with caution to extreme caution depending on co-morbidities , 61 and up isolate and engage in essential travel only. Like food and doctors. PS Groups 1 and 2 can have NO contact with the last group. Believe it or not, this country would get along for quite well with the under 50’s running things.
Kip watch this
https://youtu.be/8nqgZn9Izv8
COVID-19 causes skull fractures, especially among motorcyclists that die from the disease.
The mainly Democrat cities and states (and teachers unions) wanting to shut down the schools gives a whole new meaning to the ‘nanny state’. Makes you wonder how we survived history, when there was so many numerous threats around all the time for everyone. Of course, shutting down the schools probably has the most negative effect for the general state of affairs, the economy and especially women, who are trying to balance family life with a job. This all plays straight in to the narrative that a lot of this has to do with so much disruption, as to change the result of the election. It is really starting to look like that this is just to impair the population to cause maximum damage to the economy and society so that President Trump isn’t reelected. When things remain so bad for so long, people just think changing the Gov’t would be a place to start to fix things. And this misinformation has gone global in most cases, as many other foreign forces support doing this, but they don’t close their schools.
Much of this is driven by ‘science’ driven pronouncements, including from media and some big tech like Google, Twitter and FB who repeat the narrative and cancel anyone who has any other opinion or even facts about the this whole issue with Covid-19. I never would have thought last year that the medical authorities could have wielded so much power over us, which is a practise run for the science driven reduction in energy/fossil fuels, through climate science. A vote for a Democrat is a vote for insanity and/or evil.
“ Makes you wonder how we survived history, . . .”
Such as going to school before the polio vaccine?
From Wikipeda:
Before the Salk vaccine was introduced in 1955, polio was considered one of the most serious public health problems in the world, and epidemics were increasingly devastating in the post-war United States. The 1952 U.S. epidemic, in which 3,145 people died and 21,269 were left with some form of paralysis, was the worst polio outbreak in the nation’s history, and most of its victims were children.
We stayed in school and got our doses in school soon after the introduction of the vaccine. Pittsburgh was the major metro in our area. Salk’s group was at the School of Medicine at the University of Pittsburgh.
Open the schools, any teachers in higher risk categories can stay home. This whole Covid farce gets more ridiculous each passing day.
That would be the most sensible thing to do however we are stuck between two ideologies. You see one in many of the post above they want to sack those who can’t work. On the other side you have an ideology of don’t put anyone in danger no matter how small the risk.
In countries with good employment social security nets you would just place those at risk in furlough. However the first group see that as people getting paid for nothing and the second group see people are still at risk.
So it becomes the typical bark fest with two extreme groups getting evermore angry at each other.
LDB says, “You see one in many of the post above they want to sack those who can’t work. ”
I didn’t see that. Change the word can’t to won’t, and you are closer to the mark. That however makes that group less ” extreme”. My reading of those comments also indicates that exceptions need to be made for the few in that profession who are elderly with complications.
So I do not see them as radical. However the teachers Joong antics and BLM, and engaging in group protest – riots, them I see as radical.
Our schools have been open for about 2 weeks, and full sports schedules (The Horror!). No covid.
Yet
ack and Peter ==> There will be Covid cases in he schools — of course there will be. Some kids will get Covid and some teachers too. Almost all will never know they had it unless that are getting a Covid test every two weeks. some will think they had a cold….some will think they should have skipped the fourth martini at dinner the night before.
Unless the school district or the PTA or the local nutters stir up panic, all will be well.
In any given school, no kids will get sick enough to be hospitalized and no kids will die. Same for teachers.
School Closure Problem example #1
I support three students in the rural Philippines.
Guess what? No laptops or internet for students or teachers.
It’s not that significant % of people don’t have phones or some type of computer, it just hasn’t reached critical mass that a teacher can run a class. No education in developing countries is a disaster.
School Closure Problem example #2
One of my work colleague has four young kids under 12.
Working from home is not easy.
So this just entirely misses the point. It may well be that kids are mercifully unlikely to get badly sick from this, but there is plenty of research showing they carry, and can spread, the virus to others. I see nothing in this article addressing the probable surge in infections (and ultimately deaths) resulting from having thousands of infectious agents running around after school. Do these deaths not count? Does the author not believe children can be infectious (in the face of ample evidence to the contrary).
There have been hardly any (weeks ago there was no a single case anywhere in the world) documented cases in which a teacher has caught COVID from a student.
Peter ==> SARS-CoV-2 is not a particularly dangerous disease for most people. That is the simple fact that is being obscured by all the panic-promotion in the media.
SARS-CoV-2 is a risk for several types of people: The very old (75 and over), the immune-response suppressed, those with serious breathing problems from other causes, those with congestive heart failure, the list is available from the CDC or in Willis’ earlier essay here.
The simple ground truth is that over the last 8 months, nearly everyone who is not a hermit has been exposed to SARS-CoV-2. Those who have not already been exposed will be exposed whether or not kids go back to school, bars open, barbershops and hair saloons open (go Pelosi!), churches start having Sunday (Saturday, Friday) services, etc.
SARS-CoV-2 is not particularly different in behavior or effect than any other viral influenza and is spread less easily than some of the other influenzas.
“Influenza spreads around the world in yearly outbreaks, resulting in about three to five million cases of severe illness and about 290,000 to 650,000 deaths. About 20% of unvaccinated children and 10% of unvaccinated adults are infected each year.” [ wiki ]
There is no know effective way to prevent the spread of viral influenza or SARS-CoV-2 on it gets into the general population.
The data from euromomo for SARS-CoV-2 clearly shows otherwise:
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
Even below 65y there is clear signal which outcompetes that of the flu by far.
The serological studies also show that no country has even reached 20% of infected people most remaining in the single digits.
Kip
The spread of CoVid can most certainly be slowed, and even stopped in it’s tracks as we have done here in New Zealand. And to suggest that it’s just another flu is seriously deluded, CoVid, in addition to the death toll among the vulnerable, is proving to cause a number of life threatening ailments in the young and healthy. Not to mention which the flu figures you quote are seriously wrong, almost no one not already terminal dies of the flu – the “dies with” vs “dies of” distinction is far more relevant to flu than CoVid, which is two orders of magnitude worse at least.
Your attitude is one of surrender. Free people do not surrender.
Peter ==> As I have said, opinions vary. But any nation that thinks it has “stopped” the spread of SARS-CoV-2 is deluding itself. Even New Zealand.
If New Zealand can keep itself internationally quarantined it will limit outbreaks — but will not eliminate them. Because the entire population of New Zealand is that of a single mid-sized US city, spread out over the entire land mass — with a average population density of under 19 persons/square km — in most of the country, it is far less.
In the US, population density of cities ranges from over 20,000/km2 down to, for moderately populated cities, over 4,000/km2.
Much of the US has almost no Covid at all. I live within 100 miles of New York City, and we have so few cases that I do not know a single person that has been even just ill from Covid — though “testing” has revealed many “cases”.
Accepting the reality of viral disease spread is important. They do not “go away” — they just wait their chance. Any nation that does not achieve a basic level of herd immunity will face a second round of outbreaks until it does.
Kip
Actually Auckland is a city of 1.4 million, would rank about 8th in US city size. And we really have eliminated the virus, we aren’t kidding ourselves, we know the names of every one who had it. There wasn’t a massive first wave, and there won’t be a large second wave (2 deaths so far), because we shut it down and kept it out, and we damn well intend to keep it out. he pandemic will end, not from widespread herd immunity, but because we, the human race, end it by developing either a vaccine or a cure. Then we will open our borders again. Only then.
And I wouldn’t be that confident about the effect on kids, nor their propensity to spread the virus to their families. While some early research may indicate that, there is a lot of evidence emerging that kids actually carry a very high viral load in their respiratory system while asymptomatic. If you think that doesn’t spread the virus, i really think you need to explain why. There are a lot of school based outbreaks in the US right now, do you really think those kids families will be unaffected?
Peter ==> Actually, you have had a resent unexplained outbreak….for which there is no contact tracing explanation..
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2252136-return-of-covid-19-to-new-zealand-shows-that-no-one-can-relax/
This will continue to happen because of the nature of corona-virus diseases.
Auckland would come in 43rd of US Metro Areas by population… almost all US cities have long outgrown their original “city limits” and comprise many politically separate municipalities but in fact are one continuously populated geographical area. this is true even of small cities in the US. There are 15 Metro areas that have more people than all of NZ.
Hansen did an incomplete analysis although the conclusion may not change much.
For COVID in general it seems like 40 percent of those infected have no symptoms or mild symptoms and 60 percent have typical flu symptoms or serious flu symptoms. Perhaps 0.1 percent die, mainly older folks. Deaths of children are so rare they are barely worth mentioning.
But children can get sick, and sometimes very sick, from COVID. What are those percentages? COVID could cause serious suffering for some children, just as it does for some adults, but there is no death.
For some reason many people treat COVID patients as two groups, those who died and those who did not die, as if no one else matters. With COVID overall, that’s about 60 percent of the patients who duffet, and survive, but uduslly get ignored.
Sweden left elementary schools open. What happened there ? Did teachers get sick? I know retired people were hit hardest by COVID but teachers are not retired people. It seems like data from Sweden would be very useful to answer the question of whether US elementary schools should be open.
Humans live with about 150 viruses and maybe COVID is number 151 we will have to live with.
I don’t know of any vaccines for any other coronsviruses. Maybe we’ll have one for SARS2, or maybe not. What if a vaccine is developed and it is only 50 percent effective? How much does that help people frightened by the mass media and the maybe 10 percent anti-vaccers? Ordinary influenza vaccines are not 100 percent effective so there’s no reason to assume the first ever coronsvirus vaccine will be anywhere close to 100 percent effective. Get your vitamin D and zinc and hope for the best.
Richard ==> I didn’t really do ANY analysis — just reported the numbers.
“ Get your vitamin D and zinc ”
This is an important thing I’ve learned. Early in this Panic2020,
a comment led to me investigating Vit D levels. Seems about 40%
of folks in the USA are deficient. At 47°N and almost always covering up
outside I assumed I was. I’ve never had a test for Vit D.
So, early on I started with supplements of D and Zn.
If, as Kip claims, I’ve been exposed, symptoms have been nonexistent.
Taking vitamin D and zinc but obviously no effect on my chronic sinusitis resurgence. Every time snotting the nose or clearing the throat… bumm, I have suddenly a lot of space.
Richard Greene, I think you are spot on.
I am a 68 year old Dane living in Sweden. Every morning I press an orange or a grapefruit, eat extra D and Zinc and have oat porridge in the morning after giving the sheep their breakfast. I eat varied and is healthier than many people ten or twenty years younger.
Maybe I have had COVID-19 about 10 days ago, or it may have been another virus, which kept me in bed for almost two days.
Here in Sweden only a few over fifty display any particular concern, and only a very few under fifty seems to have the slightest fear. It may be different in the big cities, but then again I saw a video from Stockholm in June 2020 where people partied Saturday night in the streets and elsewhere.
Yes, there there was one young man in my county who actually died from COVID-19, or did he die with it?
As Dr Anders Tegnell and his predecessor explains, you have to make sure you immune system is in good and working order, and for that to be the case, you have to constantly train the defense system.
Maybe I should read “State Of Fear” again, so I can grasp why people are so overly fearful?
Why not just have a beer and make love in the sun?
In NSW, Australia, schools have remained open throughout the Pandemic with no problems apart from periodic cleaning after infections were detected. In NSW, schools where a student or teacher have been infected with coronavirus are closed temporarily while full cleaning takes place. NSW Education Minister Sarah Mitchell said pupils would ontinue to attend school asthe system was working well.
Why were schools kept open? One reason that the Prime Minister Sott Morrison wants to keep schools open is the severe effect that closing them could have on the health system. It’s estimated that if schools were shut, about one third of parents would need to stop working to look after their children. That means frontline health workers could be ripped out of hospitals when they are needed most.
Unlike many other government initiatives, keeping schools open has worked completely well.
Did the author create the graphs? If so please, please think about people with like me that have slight color blindness. To my color blind eyes that blue and purple look the same. Might I suggest orange or pink rather than purple or dark blue rather than medium blue?
I learned quite a bit about how color combinations work and don’t work together for maps when I took GIS classes. Even simple graphs can also benefit from good color choice. And anyone working on something that might be viewed on screen, presented by using projectors or printed out should test their work to make sure it is readable in all three.
Myron ==> I created the graphs,m but did not chose the colors intentionally.
I am blue-green color blind, unable to really tell the difference between them..
Give me a little more information on which four colors you would chose — you may email at my first name at the domain i4.net with actual color samples or Photoshop color indicators like # 0033CC or R 0 G 51 B 204.
Thanks.
My wife was teaching maps from computers when the output was black & white multi-over prints on 18″ wide paper. She retired in 2010, so used a lot of ESRI stuff; and still communicates with some she got to know. Of course her students are everywhere.
So, yes, we know of the issue you raise.
Under 1’s had a significant drop in deaths during lockdown phase. No vaccinations?
Pft ==> I’m not a doctor- but as a parent and grandparent, I wouldn’t vaccinate an Under 1.
It’s not about children dying, it’s about preventing clusters and hubs.
Every additional social contact linking one cluster to another opens the road into new feeding grounds for the virus.
Schools are particular bad in this regard. Nowhere else so many people who would otherwise have never any contact with each other come together to sit down in a closed room for 6+ hours five times a week. Except big common space offices eventually but those are not about to open any time soon.
Ron ==> If we were talking about ebola or something truly dangerous, you would be right.
many places have had no lockdowns.
Testing is showing that nearly everyone has been exposed. There is no path to stopping normal spread of SARS-CoV-2.
“Testing is showing that nearly everyone has been exposed.”
Simply not true. The big serological studies in Italy, Spain and UK show otherwise.
Ron ==> Opinions vary , , , , , positive tests does not translate to exposure. Positive tests as high as we are seeing in the US does translate to nearly full exposure. Of course, we are or will all be exposed over and over.
What you are saying is that not everyone tests positive for Covid. Quite a different matter.
Testing can only show infection. Exposure cannot be detected by testing. The positive numbers by testing are by far not sufficient to make the claim “nearly everyone has been exposed”. 6 million of 330?
Ron ==> You do understand sampling and extrapolation?
Kip, that is true and opinions do vary and those in charge disagree with you. I doubt posting on WUWT is going to change their mind probably try a more reasoned letter to those in charge.
LdB ==> Your faith in reasoned letters to “those in charge” is endearingly naive.
I write here and elsewhere because proper professional-grade journalism is needed to keep the public informed of the broader issues in our society. In the US, they are generally getting bombarded by only one side of each issue. And that “side” is often simply some weird “from another galaxy” propaganda.
When people have a better understanding of what’s going on, they make better personal, social, and political decisions.
You would be surprised how many people read here and how many times pieces originally published here are re-published elsewhere.
I have no faith in them Kip but I also don’t believe in wasting time on stuff that isn’t going to have any impact at all .. I am a pragmatic. There are all sorts of other issues like workers insurance and whose liability a death would be, which you don’t touch on. It’s all well and fine to say I reckon it’s safe until the first person to die from a work contracted death sues you.
LdB ==> I’m not sure what kind of impact you are expecting from journalism. Truth is, I did not write anything abut school re-openingsin the essay — it is simply not about that. I do have a personal opinion.
Whose liability is it at this moment, in your locality, if someone (heaven forbid) gets sick with Covid-19 and dies? Who does their family sue? I suspect the answer is “No One”.
Why is that if it is such an important issue?
Millions of people in the US are happily going to work every work day. They are not suing their employers .
Covid-19 is not some magical disease that requires special, different, societal response.
In Australia if you are in a covid hotspot you aren’t allowed to work unless you are a determined essential service. If you died from covid which could be directly linked to your workplace you are covered by workers compensation and even timeoff and hospital is covered. It varies slightly from state to state but as an example here is NSW
https://wiro.nsw.gov.au/covid-19-frequently-asked-questions
You see all you have to establish (which government contact tracing nicely does)
Does that make it more clear the sort of problems that exist.
LdB ==> Good luck on proving that the illness was contracted at work instead on the bus going to work — or from the babysitter looking after the kids — or from just bad luck….
LDB, and the newly unemployed, who then suffers a divorce, who then suffers a stress induced disease, or death, or suicide, who sues for him.
Don’t know or care it isn’t part of our system … You seem confused in thinking I am advocating something. I am not it’s how our law works which is what I was explaining and what you or I think of it doesn’t come into it.
How come this video reminded me of Climate Change Fear?
Run by basically the same people , is why !
Things people do when they are bored of isolationism.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/coronavirus-bin-isolation-outing-viral-costume-facebook-group/12116574
Coronaphobia is now a new religion. It even has its mandatory dress code of the veil/muzzel/mask to demonstrate your adherence to the religion.
Whereas older religions had their health ordnances based on species of animals (thou shalt not eat pig), now the health ordnances are just as stupid but are “thou shalt social distance”.
The high priests of this new religion are people like Fauci and the academics of SAGE, the prophets are those with their models.
And like many religions, they feed on the pain and suffering of other to claim “it was the Lord God Covid that caused your son to die of gunshot, just believe in the gods Burn Loot & Riot and you shalt be saved by the archangel Fauci”. And the Sheeple, like the sheeple always have, just go along with it.
Amen.
Have you not seen Moshers post?!!
Steven Mosher September 4, 2020 at 12:56 am
https://youtu.be/_TECf3xSFbU
Flatten the curve? How about we flatten the chief medical officers, the Faucis, the academics, the modellers, the polticians, and all the other assorted idiots and incompetent fools who have created this phoney pandemic.
I saw no rant. Yet rather a comparison of Cov19 illness and deaths to a business as usual scenario, you know, the kind of information an insurer would want.
Unwinnable argument. The fear overlords can always claim that their attacks on society saved kids’ lives. While making them fearful for their very lives over schools and other people at an early age, based not on experience or meaningful fact, but on technocrats’ models. Win-Win for them.
Unlike hurricanes, where you can shelter in place until it passes in a day or so, this virus is not going away just because we hide from it. It will be there when the world opens up again. I understand the original need to not overwhelm the medical system but that ship has now sailed. It is up to those with a greater risk of death to do what they must but everyone else needs to get on with their lives.
I am one who is at greater risk. Over 65 with latent TB. I am not working at my part time job this week because one of our employees flew to New York for 2 weeks and is now back. She won’t self isolate so I wont be going back until she has cleared 10 days without being ill. Over reaction? Perhaps but it is my decision not to take the chance. I still go on with the rest of my life as usual.
Herd immunity is for cattle, not human beings. This is not 1348. I’m a teacher, and I won’t be a part of your %$^^%&& Dr. Mengele experiment!
Edward Bergonzi ==> You need to do what you feel is best for you and yours, That’s what everyone does.
Many nations and US States have opened schools without problems, either for the students or the teachers.
Of course, I’m sure you have read the entire essay above — and realize that I have not said a single word about opening schools –I do however, think they should.
If you don;t think you should teach, to protect your health, then I can support your personal decision.
Good for you! McD is hiring, so is your local trash collection company, good luck with your future well away from anyone’s children.
Epilogue:
Quite few strong opinions about school openings. I did not write about school openings, of course, and many of the comments show that some people did not read beyond the headline. Not reading beyond the headline and/or the lede is a very common failing and a large part of the reason that so many people are overly imfluenced by the media.
Headlines and ledes are meant to be punchy and not truly informative. The details, the important stuff that would help readers understand the news, come far down in a story — or, at least, they used to. Now days journalists are activists and propagandists and don’t give any details that might weaken their political/social activist position.
If you have children or grandchildren, you should be comforted by the knowledge that this flu, Covid-19, is sparing the kids.
Thanks for reading.
# # # # #
From the article: “How many kids are dying from (or even just with) Covid-19?”
Another question to ask is will children suffer long-term adverse health effects from the Wuhan virus even though they don’t get very sick and few die from the virus?
I read an article tonight where doctors are suggesting that bloodclots may be an *early* sign of the Wuhan virus and that these can crop up in about seven days from initial infection, and are appearing in people who do not require hospitalization, and some of them have no other signs of the Wuhan virus, just the bloodclots. I also read where doctors are questioning whether a cytokine storm is doing the serious damage rather than the virus itself.
SARS-Cov-1, a coronavirus, has caused very long-term (years) adverse health effects for those who survived the infection, and SARS-Cov-2 (Wuhan) looks to be doing something similar.
In other words, just because you don’t get very sick from the Wuhan virus does not rule out complicating factors arising later in life, and this may even apply to children.
The death rate is not the only thing we need to look at with regard to the Wuhan virus.
The HCQ treatment could probably eliminate the long-term adverse health effects of the Wuhan virus if given right after a positive test. That one set of doctors said bloodclotting started around the seventh day of the infection. The HCQ treatment can supposedly rid the body of the Wuhan virus in about a week, give or take a day or two. So it would seem that a timely administration of HCQ would interrupt the Wuhan virus course at just about the right time, when it is starting to do damage to the body.
I read an article tonight where it was claimed that the perscriptions for HCQ had increased by 800 percent from March to June of this year.
I see where a group of doctors are suing the FDA to release the huge store of hydroxychloriquin it has stockpiled, and lift restrictions on its use.
The HCQ treatment could save many lives and help people to avoid long-term adverse health effects, but it has been demonized to the point that it is hard to get for the average person. And many people don’t even thing to use it because of the climate that has been created around it.
All the studies of the HCQ treatment that show success are those which give the HCQ treatment to patients when they are initially infected.
All the studies the FDA uses to suppress HCQ are those that are given to people who have already been hospitalized, meaning very sick people. These studies also either don’t use the entire HCQ treatment which includes an antibiotic and zinc, or they give very large, unnecessary, harmful doses of HCQ.
For people who take it immediately after being infected, it works fine. One doctor said he had a 100 percent success rate at keeping his patients out of the hospital.
The HCQ demonization is truly a crime against humanity.
Tom ==> On long-term effects — since there has not been a “long-time” yet, we don;t know — bit all serious diseases (literally) have some lingering effects — the childhood diseases are notorious for this. There will always always be some children who get “name-any-disease” that end up with what may be a “long-term effect” from that disease or may be just something that the body did to itself while fighting off that disease. That is of interest to those who treat the follow-up problems — but is not something that we can change at this time.
We can’t change how many children will eventually get ill from the SARS-CoV-2 virus — it is out there now in the human population and will run its course despite anything we do. That is the harsh reality. qhen and if an effective vaccine is developed, SARS-CoV-2 virus will still circulate and infect adults and children — hopefully fewer of them.
Viruses are tricky and do things that modern medicine does not understand.
And, yes, there is a crime against humanity underway — the suppression of HCQ-Azi-Zn treatment for Covid-19.
“There will always always be some children who get “name-any-disease” that end up with what may be a “long-term effect” from that disease or may be just something that the body did to itself while fighting off that disease. That is of interest to those who treat the follow-up problems — but is not something that we can change at this time.”
I don’t agree with that, Kip. There is something we can do about it now: Administer the HCQ treatment. It is safe and it works when given early in the infection.
If the Wuhan virus follows the same path as SARS-Cov-1, then we can expect a lot of adverse health effects appearing down the road. Doctors are currently warning about epidemics of kidney, heart and lung and sepsis disease from the effect of the Wuhan virus.
One recent study was done of 100 people who were infected with the Wuhan virus but did not require hospitalization, and had subsequently recovered from the infection. Of these 100 people with mild cases of the Wuhan virus who had recovered, they found 72 people who were showing inflamation of their hearts and lungs.
Now we don’t know if this damage is just temporary and the body may heal itself, but they could also be permanent, similar to the SARS-Cov-1 virus.
We don’t know one way or another about the long-term damage now, but my point is we have what appears to be a safe and effective treatment for the Wuhan virus, the HCQ treatment, and we should be using it until we find out one way or another about any long-term adverse health effects from the Wuhan virus.
I’m curious to know how nations like Turkey, who give the HCQ treatment to everyone who tests positive, treat their children with the drug. Or do they? The nations that automatically treat people with HCQ when they test positive have a lower death rate than those who do not.
If you want to read about long-term adverse health effects from the Wuhan virus do a search on “long haulers”. Alyssa Milano, a famous actress, has been suffering with complications from the Wuhan Virus for over six months. I read her story yesterday. You don’t want to go through what she has been going through, and it seems to me this could be prevented with the HCQ treatment. Unfortunately, Alyssa is a die-hard leftist so I assume taking the HCQ treatment for her would be like validating Donald Trump, and she can’t have that. So she has to suffer.
Tom ==> I support HCQ-Azi_Zn treatment for all.
Here’s something I ran across tonight, Kip.
https://www.sciencealert.com/mysterious-post-covid-syndrome-is-severely-damaging-kids-hearts-new-study-shows
Mysterious Post-COVID Syndrome Affecting Kids Appears to Be Even Worse Than We Thought
PETER DOCKRILL 7 SEPTEMBER 2020
“A mysterious, new disease called multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C, and also known as paediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome or PIMS) has affected hundreds of children around the world since it was first discovered earlier this year.
The condition, thought to be somehow linked to COVID-19, can emerge in kids even after very mild coronavirus infections. But a light case of coronavirus is no guarantee that a subsequent case of MIS-C won’t be very serious, and sometimes even fatal.”
“Nonetheless, while there’s still a lot we don’t know about MIS-C, the picture that’s starting to emerge is something we have to take very seriously: a disease associated with COVID-19 that for many children who experience it is much worse than the COVID-19 they’ve already encountered.”
end excerpt
I think this is the kid’s version of the adverse effects older adults are experiencing after having recovered from the Wuhan virus infection.
The Wuhan virus looks like a nasty virus, indeed.
The HCQ treatment could stop the progression of this disease in short order, and that would seem to me to be the objective. The longer the virus is in the body, the more damage it does.
It’s really a crime that people don’t have this medicine readily available to them. Cutting the Wuhan virus infection short might eliminate all these long-term health problems.
One complicating factor is it is estimated that some people could be infected with the Wuhan virus for 14 days before they start showing symptoms. I saw a study the other day where doctors were talking about a bloodclot problem that had developed in a child, in his legs, and they said this problem had developed seven days after the patient showed symptoms. But the infection could have possibly been going on for two week prior to the showing of symptoms.
I just wonder what the level of system damage is with each advancing week of infection.
Interrrupting the normal course of the Wuhan virus infection should be the objective. That can be done using the HCQ treatment.
I heard tonight that HCQ, Vitamin D, and the Z-pack were also a good combination. No mention of zinc with this combination, for some reason.
Tom Abbott ==> hen reading these studies and reports, it is very very important to read with your critical thinking knob turn to Full Power.
Any piece with a head line that includes “Even Worse Than We Thought” can probably be discounted immediate a– as least chalked up as a rabid exaggeration.
The next indicator that something is amiss is “The condition, thought to be somehow linked to COVID-19,” — there is, as yet, no definite connection between Covid-19 illness and subsequent MIS-C or PIMS.
There is a lot of rumor mongering going on — much of it intended to feed fuel to Covid-Panic.
There is nothing particularly unusual with viral diseases causing follow-on or long-term results.
The science will eventually sort out once the 2020 Presidential election is over — and medial people begin to fight back against the politics.