Summary
On March 19, at a White House briefing, President Trump “touted” chloroquine (hydroxychloroquine is chloroquine metabolite) for possible use against COVID-19. The very next day, a media operation was launched to deny this treatment to the public. Several fake news outlets published articles, saying things like this (NYT, March 20):
Trump’s Embrace of Unproven Drugs to Treat Coronavirus Defies Science
Doctors and patients also worry that the president’s rosy outlook for the treatments will exacerbate shortages of old malaria drugs relied on by patients with lupus and other debilitating conditions.
Referring to this as a media operation is appropriate because multiple outlets repeated the same false talking points. At that time
- The use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 already had scientific support, although not to the level required for FDA approval of a new drug; but HCQ was already approved.
- The fact that hospitals had already been increasing their supply of HCQ and CQ before President’s briefing was an additional indication that medical professionals believed in the drugs’ usefulness against COVID-19.
- There were no shortages of HCQ or CQ for lupus & RA patients at that time.
- Multiple pharma companies announced an increase in HCQ manufacturing and substantial donations of HCQ.
- Even without these increases, the HCQ amounts required for COVID-19 patients were too small to impact the supply for other users.
This false alarm had all the behavioral characteristics of the Democrat-Socialist operatives: pitting groups of citizens against each other, sowing fear and division, and hoping that the conflict would damage President Trump. In this case, they incited lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients against current and future COVID-19 victims. Google, Facebook, Twitter, and Microsoft support the fake new media financially, send web traffic to them, and endorse them to some extent. Amplified by Big Tech, the announcement of HCQ shortage caused a vicious spiral: panic buying by lupus patients, which led to actual shortages, which amplified the panic buying and so on. Then the blame was directed at COVID-19 patients and their physicians prescribing HCQ for them.
Consequences of the anti-HCQ Media Operation
The situation was aggravated by actions of some state governments, which started restricting access to HCQ for COVID-19 victims. The Governor of New York outright denied HCQ to COVID-19 victims, except for inpatient treatment and clinical studies. Physicians felt pressured to postpone HCQ treatment for COVID-19 patients. Instead of beginning HCQ treatment as early as possible, they postponed its use the late stages of the disease.
Late treatment with HCQ was frequently used as compassionate care for the most desperate causes. Delaware’s HCQ policy illustrates this thinking in late March: “This drug is used in very limited instances for very critically ill patients with COVID-19, in a clinical setting.” This led to statistics in which use of HCQ was correlated with worse outcomes. Bad actors exploited the correlation-as-causation fallacy to advocate against HCQ.
Apparently, in the early April the medical establishment in the North East (inclusive of NY, NJ, MA, CT, PA, MD, and DC) decided against the use of HCQ as a COVID-19 treatment. Coincidentally or not, this area became the main COVID-19 death cluster, responsible for more than 60% of the US COVID-19 deaths.
Why shortages were not caused by COVID-19 use
The HCQ shortages were not and could not be caused by the drug’s demand as a COVID-19 treatment. HCQ is a prescription drug taken regularly by 1.5-2 million people, at approximately the same doses used for COVID-19. The majority of those taking the drug are lupus patients (there are 1.5M lupus patients in the US, and most of them are on HCQ), followed by rheumatoid arthritis patients (there are 1.3M RA patients). HCQ is manufactured by dozens of companies in the US and abroad in standard 200 mg HCQ sulphate tablets. An estimated 20-30 million HCQ tablets are purchased weekly.
An HCQ-based treatment course for COVID-19 is 5-7 days and requires only 10-15 tablets. On March 21, there were only 24,000 people who had tested positive for COVID-19. Most of them did not need HCQ and could not find a doctor who would prescribe it, anyway. Even if a quarter of them bought 15 tablets each, that would only amount to 90,000 tablets – a drop in the ocean of HCQ supplies. Even if we multiply that number by ten – to include those who were not tested, hypochondriacs, and people who would need it within a couple of weeks – it is still less than one million. Double that number to incorporate lack of knowledge about treatment time and some people using smaller HCQ dosage for prophylaxis, and it is still less than two million tablets, or only about 10% of a regular weekly’s supply. Such increase in demand was easily covered by pharma companies’ existing stock. Additionally, pharma companies were ramping up their manufacturing and announcing donations of tens of millions of tablets. Clearly, purchase of HCQ for COVID-19 treatment likely had no impact at all. All the shortages were caused by the operation using Internet and social media to create achieve results in the physical world. It was the first distributed denial of a life-saving drug in the history.
Stockpiling was the actual cause of shortages
Because HCQ is safe, it is frequently prescribed for 90 days. Because it is cheap, insurance companies may allow patients to refill the whole 90-day supply at one time. Many lupus patients do not adhere to their regimen (see below) and thus often have unfulfilled prescriptions. Due to the fear sowed by the media, some of these patients rushed to fill their long term HCQ prescriptions, even though they had plenty of unused tablets at home. If we estimate only 5% out of the 1.5 million lupus patients filled their 30 or 90-day prescriptions, it created a sudden demand for 9 million tablets – enough to cause shortages in the distribution channels. Even so, it seems that HCQ supply from manufacturers was not interrupted at any time. Some manufacturers always had HCQ for sale, although not in all packaging options. Following data is from the ASHP page, tracking HCQ shortages.
March 19, March 24: HCQ tablets are available from Concordia, Sandoz, Zydus; Prasco (current customers), Amneal (“on allocation”). Teva promises availability in late March. April 16: HCQ tablets are available from Concordia, Mylan; Amneal (“on allocation”), Sandoz (current customers and through HHS), Zidus (current customers), and Prasco (limited supply).
HCQ State Orders
Lacking the authority to completely ban doctors from prescribing HCQ, some governors restricted pharmacies from fulfilling prescriptions to COVID-19 patients, but not to other patients. Notice that the rational policy to deal with shortage would have been to limit dispensed quantities of HCQ to everyone. This would have ensured that all patients receive the drug. The effect of the inverted policy was suffering of COVID-19 victims, stockpiling of the drug by users with 90-day prescriptions, and increased shortages. New York and Michigan outright banned dispensing HCQ to COVID-19 victims, with rare exceptions, and allowed stockpiling by other users. Apparently, when pharmacies in New York ran out of HCQ, lupus patients raided neighboring states.
Some states did not ban, but created obstacles for COVID-19 victims, like the requirement that the patient tested positive for COVID-19 (when the availability of tests was limited). In the best case, the result was delay of HCQ treatment, sharply decreasing its anti-viral efficiency.
NY’s policy on HCQ fulfillment was probably the worst (score: 10):
No pharmacist shall dispense hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine except when written as prescribed for an FDA-approved indication; or as part of a state approved clinical trial related to COVID-19 for a patient who has tested positive for COVID-19, with such test result documented as part of the prescription. No other experimental or prophylactic use shall be permitted, and any permitted prescription is limited to one fourteen-day prescription with no refills.
MI’s policy was probably the second worst. NJ’s policy was not much better.
DE adopted one of the best policies (score: 0):
New prescriptions are being limited to a 14-day supply, unless the patient is previously established on the medication. Patients previously established on the medication are limited to a 30- day supply. This should ensure that patients with chronic disease can get their medication and ensure there is adequate drug available in the clinical setting to manage the critically ill. The Division of Professional Regulation encourages prescribers, pharmacies, and pharmacists to adopt similar policies.
The policies are from AMA Statement and List of Related Laws, April 27.
Deaths Clusters
Supporting Information
Immediate Increase of HCQ Supply
From an article about HCQ donations by pharma companies (FiercePharma.com, March 20, 12:47pm):
Novartis has pledged a global donation of up to 130 million hydroxychloroquine tablets, pending regulatory approvals for COVID-19. Mylan is ramping up production at its West Virginia Facility with enough supplies to make 50 million tablets. Teva is donating 16 million tablets to hospitals around the U.S. On Friday afternoon, Amneal pledged to make 20 million tablets by mid-April.
The pledges follow Bayer’s Thursday [actually, Wed, March 18] donation of 3 million tablets [of Chloroquine].
Teva press release, March 19, 08:23 pm EDT
Teva will donate 6 Million tablets through wholesalers to hospitals by March 31, and more than 10 Million within a month
Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd. (NYSE and TASE: TEVA) announced today the immediate donation of more than 6 million doses of hydroxychloroquine sulfate tablets through wholesalers to hospitals across the U.S. …
Mylan has restarted production of hydroxychloroquine sulfate tablets at its West Virginia manufacturing facility in the U.S. to meet the potential for increased demand resulting from potential effectiveness of the product in treating COVID-19.
Novartis press release, March 20, 12:00 ET
Novartis intends to donate up to 130 million 200 mg doses by the end of May, including its current stock of 50 million 200 mg doses. The company is also exploring further scaling of capacity to increase supply and is committed to working with manufacturers around the world to meet global demand.
Amneal press release, March 20, 4:17pm
Amneal is ramping up production of hydroxychloroquine sulfate at several of its manufacturing sites and expects to produce approximately 20 million tablets between now and mid-April. Those tablets will be made available nationwide through Amneal’s existing retail and wholesale customers, as well as through direct sales to larger institutions in need.
Note that the increase in manufacturing and donations were announced before the fake news media published articles predicting imminent HCQ shortages.
Lupus Patients’ HCQ Needs
After HCQ accumulates in tissues, its half-life in the body is 30-60 days, so its users are able to skip it for a week or two without adverse effects. There is an interesting article in the Journal of Rheumatology:
One of the most common questions from patients was whether they should stop taking their lupus medications … Then, on Thursday, March 19th, President Trump, in a White House briefing, stated that antimalarials “showed tremendous promise” and “could be a game- changer”. Suddenly, the rumblings became a roar. The questions about stopping HCQ turned into ‘I can’t get HCQ, my pharmacy is out’ from lupus patients trying to access refills.
Dr. Raoult, the author of the French study at the heart of the current furor: “It is difficult to find a product that has a better established safety profile. Furthermore its cost is negligible”. One final and ironic possibility: is it possible that one outcome may be improved adherence to HCQ by lupus patients? For years, rheumatologists have been trying to convince lupus patients of essentially the same thing. The risk benefit ratio for HCQ is excellent, and the potential benefits significant. Yet adherence to HCQ is universally low.
The paper says that 20%-50% of the lupus patients had poor adherence to HCQ, sometimes not taking it at all. This is not surprising, given the long half-life of this medication in the body. This also explains why some lupus got COVID-19. More info:
Hydroxychloroquine on Lupus.org:
Given the drug’s many and varied beneficial effects and its excellent long-standing safety profile, most rheumatologists believe that hydroxychloroquine should be taken by people with lupus throughout their lifetime.
Hydroxychloroquine on RheumatoidArthritis.org:
The medication [HCQ] is generally well-tolerated, and has even been found safe overall for women who are pregnant or breastfeeding. … Like all medications, there is the risk of side effects. Fortunately, the problems seen by people taking this medication are usually very mild. Serious side effects are rare.
Examples of Fake News Anti-HCQ Articles
Washington Post, March 20, 2020 (5:07 pm CDT)
Hospitals and doctors are wiping out supplies of an unproven coronavirus treatment
This was the initial title. As suits fake news, WaPo surreptitiously changed it to even more alarmist title later:
As Trump touts an unproven coronavirus treatment, supplies evaporate for patients who need those drugs
The byline:
The U.S. has all but exhausted its supplies of two anti-malarial drugs that are being used by some doctors in the U.S. and China to treat the coronavirus, but which lack definitive evidence as effective treatment or approval from the Food and Drug Administration.
Note the phrases “all but exhausted” and “lack definitive evidence” indicating intentional deception.
The sudden shortages of the two drugs could come at a serious cost for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients …
Notice the “could come”.
Data gathered in the first 17 days of March by Premier Inc., a large group purchasing organization for 4,000 U.S. hospitals, showed a 300 percent week-over-week increase in orders of chloroquine and a 70 percent week-over-week boost in orders of hydroxychloroquine.
Hospitals are sophisticated buyers. They know what might help patients.
The NY Times, March 20, 2020 Updated 7:34 p.m. ET
Trump’s Embrace of Unproven Drugs to Treat Coronavirus Defies Science
Doctors and patients also worry that the president’s rosy outlook for the treatments will exacerbate shortages of old malaria drugs relied on by patients with lupus and other debilitating conditions.
Fake news par excellence! The NY Times insinuates that there are HCQ shortages, contrary to the facts, but in a way that sounds as if it was commonly known information.
“Rheumatologists are furious about the hype going on over this drug,” said Dr. Michael Lockshin, of the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. “There is a run on it and we’re getting calls every few minutes, literally, from patients who are trying to stay on the drug and finding it in short supply.”
Hydroxychloroquine is especially important for people with lupus, which can be life-threatening, Dr. Lockshin said.
This is an attempt to stir up conflict between lupus/RA patients and COVID-19 patients.
Lupus Patients Can’t Get Crucial Medication After President Trump Pushes Unproven Coronavirus Treatment
Trump’s unproven claim that hydroxychloroquine could be used to treat COVID-19 has led to hoarding, putting Lupus patients and others at even greater risk. As of Saturday afternoon, Anna Valdez had 27 pills left. That number is now down to 25.
Valdez called her local pharmacy and ordered a refill to treat her autoimmune disorder, thinking a 90-day supply would help her ride out the coronavirus outbreak.
Valdez is angry at Trump for recommending a drug that is unproven for COVID-19, upending the way medicine has been practiced and taking a medicine that works away from her.
Anna Valdez, if she ever existed, had enough HCQ for twelve days, and would be able to refill it on time, possibly for less than 90 days, if not for the axis of resistance. More on ProPublica.
Lupus.org published tips for stockpiling HCQ:
Try to refill your prescription before the refill date
If the medication is out of stock at a particular pharmacy, the pharmacists there may still be able to help you find a reputable place to refill. They may know of pharmacies that ship across state lines — if that is the case, ask your prescribing doctor to write you a prescription for that location.
If you believe you have been unfairly denied a prescription fill or refill, find your state board of pharmacy’s phone number or email address to file a consumer complaint.
Ask your doctor to prescribe a 90-day supply, instead of a 30 day supply, to make sure you have enough in case it becomes more difficult to access later.
Data behind the Map
The following table shows the number of deaths, deaths per million of population, and the level of damaging HCQ policy of the state. HCQ policy is assigned a number from 0 (DE) to 10 (NY), based on its level of damage (by withholding or obstructing HCQ) to COVID-19 patients. States without a HCQ policy in the AMA Statement and List of Related Laws are assigned the number 1.
| State | Deaths | Deaths/M | HCQ policy derangement | Cluster? | |
| New York | 26,812 | 1,378 | 10 | NY cluster | |
| New Jersey | 9,264 | 1,043 | 6 | NY cluster | |
| Connecticut | 2,967 | 832 | 1 | NY cluster | |
| Massachusetts | 4,979 | 722 | 1 | NY cluster | |
| Louisiana | 2,286 | 492 | 1 | ||
| District Of Columbia | 328 | 465 | 8 | NY cluster | |
| Michigan | 4,551 | 456 | 9 | ||
| Rhode Island | 430 | 406 | 3 | NY cluster | |
| Pennsylvania | 3,823 | 299 | 1 | NY cluster | |
| Maryland | 1,683 | 278 | 1 | NY cluster | |
| Illinois | 3,406 | 269 | 4 | ||
| USA Total | 80,931 | 245 |
(Worldometers snapshot, May 11, 2020)
Most of the states with the highest number of deaths per million are Democrat governed. On the other hand, California and Washington, who are also Democrat governed but have reasonable HCQ policies, have a low number of deaths per million. Washington, having a HCQ policy score 1, was at a disadvantage, as the first epicenter of the epidemic and because it receives less UV sunlight than NY, yet they fared much better.
Google Blocked Access to an HCQ Paper on Author’s Google Drive
On March 17, Anthony wrote a post An effective treatment for #Coronavirus #COVID-19 has been found in a common anti-malarial drug. It linked to the paper An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19)by James M. Todaro, MD and Gregory J. Rigano, Esq., and its Spanish version, both shared on Google Drive. Since that time, both have been blocked by Google because of violation of its ToS (but remain in an archive).
Elon Musk tweeted about that paper a day earlier. When viewers click the link, Twitter shows them a “warning” that the destination page might be unsafe. I encounter such things all the time.
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It has become easy these days to tell at a glance whether ANY article or study about hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID — no matter if it strives to be informative, positive, negative, no matter how well-researched in other areas it may be — will (nevertheless) contribute to the human misery unfolding daily. Simply,
Weather it mentions zinc (or not). This one does not, unfortunately. It adds to the pile.
There is a crime in progress against those who have been treated with HCQ, zinc either not given also, or at least the level tested to see if the patient had available zinc for HCQ to work. it is uncanny how a simple text “find” of a single word “zinc” in a news item, on a web page or in a drug study’s own PDF — should reveal so clearly if a ‘crime’ is still in progress, but it does. This is a first! Anyone can do it! And the results are not promising.
How dare that I assume that just because zinc is not mentioned somewhere in conjunction with HCQ, that (by some miracle) everyone was dosed also with zinc, none were zinc-deficient, that all doctors administering HCQ are completely aware of the (simple to understand) mechanism? Oh, but they just neglected to mention it! Everywhere! Well what IF it wasn’t done? There is the story of The Emperor’s New Clothes where a whole ludicrous charade goes by before a child pipes up with the obvious. Here is a pageant of misery and death.
Wouldn’t a drug whose laboratory-tested mechanism involves zinc as most probably the real active ant-viral ingredient, have ‘zinc’ figuring prominently in everything? If you’re studying the effect of HCQ, measuring zinc in the bloodstream would be crucial to the study. If you are in crisis mode choose whether to include (yes! pick me first!) zinc by default or not (good one for poor animals)… I imagine that any ethical study not compromised by politics and ignorance would do this.
Unfortunately the sheer volume of HCQ noise with no mention of its zinc mechanism is increasing. And I think there are people who have already recognized that in the USA too many patients have been treated by HCQ without zinc and some have died because of it. But rather than bringing this to everyone’s attention… for various reasons practically indistinguishable from evil… they’re just staying mum.
It’s so easy not to mention zinc! Try it at home!
I can’t find your link. Link, link, zinc, zinc …
Great and informative/revealing article BTW! Forgetting my manners, if only I wasn’t so disturbed about something else.
Dear Hocus,
Very sorry to hear that you are deeply troubled by something happening with you or someone you love. I know what it is to be typing away on WUWT with a heart overflowing with tears and or a mind heavily burdened by distressing thoughts. No one would ever know. I am glad that you shared that, for, now I will be praying for you/them.
Take care.
You were not offensive at all, btw.
Your WUWT friend,
Janice
P.S. And, if, no make that, WHEN, things clear up — let us know! (hopefully, I will get to read that particular comment of yours)
The in vitro studies showing an antiviral effect did not use zinc.
It is nothing more than an assertion without evidence.
The study using zinc and chloroquine was not a antiviral study but one that was searching for possible anti-cancer activity.
The misinformation and assuming of facts not in evidence on this entire subject is insane.
Cheerleading is not science.
At this point the claims made about chloroquine (which many did not also include HCQ, and many did not add an antibiotic, and none involved claims about zinc) that started all of this have been utterly refuted, and the insanity continues only by a constant movement of the goalposts.
re: At this point the claims made about chloroquine (which many did not also include HCQ, and many did not add an antibiotic, and none involved claims about zinc) that started all of this have been utterly refuted, and the insanity continues only by a constant movement of the goalposts.
From: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/01/wuhan-coronavirus-and-covid-19-rumination-8/#comment-2983713
by Ron Clutz May 2, 2020 at 6:20 am
A plain language explanation comes from WebMD by way of the Daily Star Bangladesh:
“Chloroquine, zinc tested to treat COVID-19 infection”
https://www.thedailystar.net/health/news/chloroquine-zinc-tested-treat-covid-19-infection-1892095
In the United States and Europe, a handful of clinical trials have begun to test ways to keep healthcare workers and other vulnerable people safe from coronavirus disease (COVID-19).
Most are testing drugs called chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine that have long been used to prevent and treat malaria, and also as a therapy against rheumatoid arthritis and lupus. The hope is that, given before infection or early in the course of the disease, the drugs will protect someone against infection and illness from the virus, or, if they do, will ensure that their case is mild. But whether these drugs will help, hurt or do nothing remains an open question.
The virus that causes COVID-19 uses a backdoor to enter the cell. As it enters, it is exposed to an acidic, vinegar-like environment, which is actually needed for the virus to get all the way inside. Hydroxychloroquine, metaphorically keeps the cap on the vinegar, Greene says, preventing acidification. Thus, there is a scientific rationale for how this drug might exert an antiviral effect.
A more detailed hypothesis for testing is provided by Dr. Scholz and Dr. Derwand of Leukocare in Munich (PDF below).
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwi53r3w7IHpAhXaKM0KHYJgBlUQFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.preprints.org%2Fmanuscript%2F202004.0124%2Fv1%2Fdownload&usg=AOvVaw0CWew6wr1Ia29V9SH0B147
Summary:
Based on the evidence of therapeutic effects of CQ/HCQ, their possible pharmacological effect as zinc ionophores and possibly underestimated specific and unspecific antiviral effects of zinc, we hypothesize that the combination of CQ/HCQ with parenteral zinc in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients may help to improve clinical outcomes and to limit the COVID-19 fatality rates.
Due to the existing substantial evidence, we propose to amend current clinical trial designs to test this hypothesis in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients by including at least one treatment arm with oral CQ or HCQ in combination with zinc. However, because of the better clinical safety profile HCQ should be preferred. To avoid interindividual differences of oral absorption rates and because of possible gastrointestinal side effects of oral zinc supplementation, it is proposed to use parenteral zinc preparations which are approved and clinically already used.
———————————-
From: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/20/wuhan-coronavirus-therapies-scientific-background/
“Hopeful: Summary of Wuhan #Coronavirus Therapies and Potential Cures”
Guest post by Rud Istvan, March 20, 2020
Background
Wuhan coronavirus is an enveloped positive sense single strand RNA virus, meaning its core genetic RNA code is just one long chain coding directly for several proteins, surrounded first by a protective viral protein capsid coat, and then a lipid membrane ‘envelope’ from which project so called “E” (for envelope) and “S” (for spike) proteins. The S protein is what the virus uses to bind to and then invade the lung’s epithelial cells in order to hijack those cell’s reproductive machinery to make copies of itself using its RNA polymerase, itself encoded in about 2/3 of the core viral genetics. The newly assembled virions that then bud out to infect new cells also eventually kill the infected epithelial cell. Covid 19 disease is caused both by the death of those cells and the immune system’s eventual response to the infection.
The S spikes are also the reason this virus class is named corona, because the spikes make it look under SEM like the virus is wearing a crown.
Chloroquine
These are actually two closely related anti-malarials, hydroxychloroquine (the small French trial) and chloroquine phosphate (the larger Chinese trial). Both were developed in the 1950’s, and interestingly the main use now is to treat rheumatoid arthritis rather than malaria (which evolved resistance).
The discovery that certain classes of anti-malarials also affect rheumatoid arthritis (RA) was made quite by accident in 1951 by an asute doctor treating malaria in an RA patient. The problem then was the side effects of chronic RA use made them unacceptable for RA. The chloroquines were developed expressly as ‘milder’ side effect anti-malarials, and in the mid to late 1950’s there were a number of papers (I reviewed several for this post) reporting good RA safety and efficacy leading to global approvals for that indication.
The mechanism of chloroquine action on RA has long been well known. It increases a cell’s lysosomal pH. (Lysosomes are membrane bound cellular organelles [think tiny balloons inside the cell floating at a lower pH in the higher pH cytosol] containing about 50 enzymes, discovered and named in 1955.) This in turn changes their ‘leaked’ enzyme balance into the cytosol, which then inhibits the cell’s RA tissue antigen signaling, which in turn reduces the immune system’s attack on the RA tissue, slowing (but usually not stopping) progression of RA tissue damage.
The reason the Chinese and then the French thought to use chloroquine against Wuhan coronavirus is this same mechanism of action, albeit with different sequelae. The viral S protein binds to the epithelial cell wall’s angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. Raising lysosomal pH changes (via indirect enzymatic action) the ‘shape’ of ACE2 enough that the S protein cannot bind to it, thus preventing cell infection. Chloroquine changes the cell ‘lock’ so the viral ‘key’ doesn’t work. Does not undo damage from infected cells, nor prevent an infected person from shedding existing viable virus, but does stop the spread in an infected person’s body—a promising therapeutic for those testing positive.
…
Remdesivir
… so attending physicians consulted with FDA then had Gilead rush the experimental drug by air, with intravenous treatment starting day 10. Patient improved in 24 hours, was saved, and has since been discharged. For those interested, there is this NEJM case report ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMMoa2001191 ) providing a very hopeful proof of principle.
MORE – see March 20, 2020 WUWT link above.
——–
To quote McGinley: “Cheerleading is not science.”
Right, McGinley. So, who (or what) are _you_ “cheering” for?
(McGinley once again, I think, demonstrates he is not as well-read as he thinks he is.)
.
Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture
J. W. te Velthuis, Sjoerd H. E. van den Worm, Amy C. Sims, Ralph S. Baric, Eric J. Snijder , Martijn J. van Hemert PLOS Published: November 4, 2010 https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176
Source
Ok, not HCQ, but ZN ionophore, that was the subject.
As so often, Nicholas, you are on the very wrong trail.
She may have has money two days before she went before the judge, but did she have the money when she opened her salon? And was it enough to get her by? These are genuine questions, by the way.
What Shelley should have done was go in and tell the judge that she was willing to comply with the rule to leave her Salon closed for one more week because she had recieved enough money from the federal government to cover all her bills, and she was sorry for causing unnecessary problems.
re: “What Shelley should have done was go in and tell the judge that she was willing to comply with the rule …”
OK “Tory *”.
Yeah, what would have been your “advice” to the revolting peasants about the 1776 timeframe?
“Capitulate, make friends with the British, and pay the damn tea tax. It’s only a tax after all, nothing worth starting a ‘war of independence’ over.”
.
.
.
* Tory (or “Loyalist”) – used in the American Revolution for those who remained loyal to the British Crown.
I have a great contempt for American journalism. Reporters no longer report; they only print opinions. On a front page. Orange Man Bad. But I was surprised when they did their best to deny a promising to the public when there were no known alternatives, just because Trump dared to recommend it before they heard about it. They have blood on their hands.
“On a front page. Orange Man Bad. But I was surprised when they did their best to deny a promising to the public when there were no known alternatives, just because Trump dared to recommend it before they heard about it. ”
The Left has a pathological hatred of Trump. It’s a sickness.
Here’s a health hint to all the Lefties out there: Hatred will eat you up inside, and it will destroy you.
I have a great contempt for American journalism. Reporters no longer report; they only print opinions.
No difference in Germany since years.
Almost daily I’m dumbfounded by those that go to such lengths to downplay HCQ for covid. What is their hope? The risk is extremely low. My wife has been on it for ten years and both her doctors tell her there is seldom any side effects. This has been true since the newer versions. Doctors that recommend it all say it should be used early in symptoms. Yet most of the stories of studies seem to be done on the worst cases and then reported as dangerous or ineffective. The political side I fully understand. What puzzles me is those here and on Disqus are so against it and they are almost without exception on the left. That observation alone makes me very suspicious.
The simple way to sum that up is that all of those voices condemning HCQ are anti science to the highest degree.
From Toto’s link https://aapsonline.org/evidence-hydroxychloroquine/
How many bad outcomes does the U.S. need before it changes its stance against an effective drug. Look at the numbers. Could it possibly be the the bad outcomes do not matter and the only thing that counts is how bad it would be to admit that no proper treatment was recommended by other than a non professional non anointed person. Thousands of bad outcomes could have been prevented.
There is a fog of war around the covid virus treatment options.
The evidence is hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionophore and it is the Zinc that stops the virus from replicating. (See my above comment for details).
If that is true hydroxychloroquine by itself may not be helpful.
This is a link to the interview of the Jewish doctor who used Zinc plus Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin to treat 700 covid patients, who were all sick and showing symptoms, with only one death.
See this medcram video (start with minute 4:00 after skipping commercial) which explains how Zinc stops the virus from replicating and notes Hydroxychloroquine is a zinc ionophore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M&feature=youtu.be
https://www.ibtimes.sg/us-doctor-claims-have-cured-nearly-500-coronavirus-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-video-42075
https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/
Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine can stop the virus from replicating if those drugs are given with zinc supplements BEFORE the patient is exposed to the virus.
Zinc plus Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin has been used to treat 700 covid patients who were sick and showing symptoms, with only one death.
https://www.ibtimes.sg/us-doctor-claims-have-cured-nearly-500-coronavirus-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-video-42075
https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/
“I blended the two treatments from South Korea and France and made a three drug regimen which are hydroxychloroquine, which is the common denominator by both treatments, then I used zinc, and azithromycin. The virus gets inside the cell and begins to hijack the cell industrial machinery. It is well known that zinc interrupts that. So, the concept is that it interferes in the replication of the virus,” said Dr Zelenko while revealing about his course of treatment.
“But the problem with zinc is that it does not get inside the cell very easily, only very small percent gets in. What is interesting is that hydroxychloroquine is a ionic core; so it is the key that opens the canal and facilitates the work of the zinc. When you have a severe viral infection, it is well known that you can get a secondary infection, so I believe the zithromax is there as a precaution and if there begins a bacteria process, it kills it before it causes a bigger problem,” he went on to add.
You start off with video links from March 10th, then follow up with the same evidence free assertions you have repeated ad nauseum for the past several months.
Everyone reading here should know you are just one more of the self assured ignoramuses who have appointed yourself instant experts on subjects you know nothing about that you have not gleaned from dubious sources over the past 8 to 10 weeks.
In fact you are blind and deaf to criticisms of the crap you are spouting off about, which at this point have close to zero evidentiary support except for the same few quacks who gave unevidenced assurances long before any evidence could have possibly existed.
IOW…these are the opinions of people who made up their minds without having any valid medical or scientific reason to be certain of anything.
People are dying of this disease William, and meanwhile you thrown out assertions regarding medical interventions that have no factual basis of support.
And you know nothing else than bad side-effects and point on bad treatments to “prove” your agenda presenting always your ignorance.
ZN as treatment for SARS by ionophores is at least known since 2010 as I linked and cited above.
Thanks for the timely and informative article.
Anyone who has tried to publish “contrarian” views knows that the establishment media, academies, regulatory boards and state officials will all resist. This is true in all political fields, including most recently “climate change” and “renewable energy”.
The notion that we have to wait for “double blind” studies to be published is insane. We don’t have time for this, to get funding, to perform the experiments and to push uphill to get them published. For climate change, the official position is still wrong. Do we really expect the medical establishment to change?
Furthermore, doctors who begin treating with HCQ or other medication will be morally compelled to switch their control group to the active group if they believe the treatment is working.
The decision whether to prescribe an FDA approved medication for another use (“off label” prescription) is already well established and is based on a combination of: doctors’ judgement, anecdotal reports, and published case studies. The government and medical boards should be ashamed of their attempts to manipulate the doctors and their patients.
Thanks!
Richard,
It is worse than you could imagine.
It is exactly as if we are having a cold war with the medical industry on one front…
Which is the only possible reason. why there are medical ‘breakthroughs’ that can naturally stop the virus.
What do you know and think about ‘Vitamin’ D?
This ‘Vitamin’ D is a proteohormone that turns genes on and off to make things happen in two hundred microbiological systems that we are aware of in our body.
Increasing the Vitamin D level in our body from below 20 ng/ml to above 40 ng/ml has been shown to reduce the incidence of many common cancers by more than 60%, reduce type 2 diabetes incidence by 60%, weight loss without dieting of 20 to pounds, a noticeable, significant reduction in depression, a 60% reduction in the incidence of muscular sclerosis, and so on.
42% of the US is deficient in ‘Vitamin’ D. And 82% of US blacks are deficient in ‘Vitamin’ D.
Vitamin D deficient is below 20 ng/ml. Vitamin D ‘normal’ is above 30 ng/ml. Supplements of 4000 UI/day would raise most people to above 40 ng/ml.
The “Vitamin’ D level in nursing homes is 10 ng/ml.
So ‘Vitamin’ D is required to turn on a system that fights viruses.
That explains why ‘Vitamin’ D deficient people are 19 times more likely to die of covid than ‘Vitamin’ D normal people.
Patterns of COVID-19 Mortality and Vitamin D: An Indonesian Study
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3585561
Vitamin D Insufficient Patients 12.55 times more likely to die
Vitamin D Deficient Patients 19.12 times more likely to die
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52574931
Black men and women are nearly twice as likely to die with coronavirus as white people in England and Wales, according to the Office for National Statistics.
https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/racialethnic/africanamericans/index.html
HIV and African Americans
Blacks/African Americansa account for a higher proportion of new HIV diagnosesb and people with HIV, compared to other races/ethnicities. In 2018, blacks/African Americans accounted for 13% of the US populationc but 42% of the 37,832 new HIV diagnoses in the United States and dependent areas.d
https://tahomaclinic.com/Private/Articles4/WellMan/Forrest%202011%20-%20Prevalence%20and%20correlates%20of%20vitamin%20D%20deficiency%20in%20US%20adults.pdf
Prevalence and correlates of vitamin D deficiency in US adults
Mounting evidence suggests that vitamin D deficiency could be linked to several chronic diseases, including cardiovascular disease and cancer. The purpose of this study was to examine the prevalence of vitamin D deficiency and its correlates to test the hypothesis that vitamin D deficiency was common in the US population, especially in certain minority groups.
The overall prevalence rate of vitamin D deficiency was 41.6%, with the highest rate seen in blacks (82.1%), followed by Hispanics (69.2%). Vitamin D deficiency was significantly more common among those who had no college education, were obese, with a poor health status, hypertension, low high-density lipoprotein cholesterol level
This is a chart that shows the diseases (cancers) that have been found to be caused by Vitamin D deficiency. The source of the chart is an organization that was formed by women’s group to research ‘Vitamin’ D, as the government would not initially fund ‘Vitamin’ D research.
https://www.grassrootshealth.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/disease-incidence-prev-chart-051317.pdf
William Astley: you are so correct. Every word of what you wrote is known and it’s a travesty that people in old age homes are not given enough sunlight to get their D and should be supplemented as a matter of fact!
This is the immune response side of the equation. The other side is supplying good nutrients to make it hard for a virus to replicate. That is where Zn ionophores and Zn come into play. Deal with it on both sides.
Keep the army from taking root in your body and keep your militia up to the task and you will be fine!
The Big Vitamin D Mistake
So, 1.000 IU daily isn’t the right dose, but at least 8.000 IU/d are needed to stay out of viamin D deficiency.
In an earlier comment I posted the link by error with my mobile as answer to Nicholas McGinley below.
The only way to know for sure is check blood serum levels, but that is hard. Rule of thumb, getting sun everyday gives far more, at least double. And I never heard of someone that gets sun every day (less than enough to burn) was anything but healthy. So I take 6000 and have a convertible. I try to see the sun here in CA as much as possible… I feel that and with the other foods I get ample D3 and hopefully will not be deficient.
Nicholas McGinley is on a tirade to confuse people who otherwise have solid evidence that Zn and Zn ionophores should be used early if one suspects a viral infection. HCQ just happens to be a powerful Zn ionophore. Originally, I thought Nicholas made some sense, but then it became clear he was doing his best not to understand what science tells us.
So to Nicholas McGinley: Meanwhile, I will do what I know works and reap other benefits of supplementation. I will do my best to pass on the knowledge to counter arguments such as his fetish of making up strawmen. Let’s do the best we can, learning about excellent findings instead of accepting his curse while waiting for the blessings of his ilk.
Someone also needs to tell Nicholas McGinley the meaning of hypocrite. He uses it as a general ad hominem… and hopes it will enable him to win debates he’s created out of thin air.
“Interleukin 6 (IL-6) is a pleiotropic cytokine exerting multidirectional effects on the cells of both innate and acquired immune systems. This cytokine is recognized as a key factor regulating the defence mechanisms of organisms. Its ability to initiate and regulate acute inflammation as well as to facilitate and direct an acquired immune response are the major functions of this cytokine. Interleukin 6 also exerts systemic effects. Overproduction of IL-6 mediates a shift from acute to chronic inflammation and is critical for the development of some diseases. The structure of IL-6 and its receptors, the signal transduction pathways and biological activities, as well as the implications of this cytokine in animal models of both arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis (RA) are reviewed. Currently available data show that IL-6 blockade will be a useful therapeutic strategy for RA patients and has scientific support.”
While there has been an obvious thrust toward developing antivirals and vaccines to counter the Covid-19 pandemic, companies are repurposing drugs originally intended for chronic autoimmune disorders that target cytokine storm syndrome (CSS), which is also associated with Covid-19 illness. In the absence of antiviral therapy, it is important to treat the overexuberant immune responses seen in Covid-19 patients, said Dr Randy Cron, professor of Pediatrics and Medicine, the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
The protocols for Sanofi/Regeneron’s Phase II/III Kevzara (sarilumab) trial (NCT04315298), Roche’s Phase III COVACTA study (NCT04320615) of Actemra/RoActemra (tocilizumab) and Hemel Hempstead, UK-based Eusa’s Sylvant (siltuximab) trial (NCT04322188) indicate the inclusion of patients who may require oxygen through invasive ventilation, considered in critical cases.
Yet, experts emphasised the need to use anti-IL-6 repurposed antibodies before hospitalised Covid-19 patients become critically ill or require mechanical ventilation to give the therapies the best chance to be effective mechanistically. Acute lung injury and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) are common consequences of CSS, which then necessitate interventions like mechanical ventilation to help a patient breathe.
https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/sanofi-partners-repurposed-antibodies-covid-19/
“When the immune system is fighting pathogens, cytokines signal immune cells such as T-cells and macrophages to travel to the site of infection. In addition, cytokines activate those cells, stimulating them to produce more cytokines. Normally this feedback loop is kept in check by the body. However, in some instances, the reaction becomes uncontrolled, and too many immune cells are activated in a single place. The precise reason for this is not entirely understood, but may be caused by an exaggerated response when the immune system encounters a new and highly pathogenic invader. Cytokine storms have potential to do significant damage to body tissues and organs. If a cytokine storm occurs in the lungs, for example, fluids and immune cells such as macrophages may accumulate and eventually block off the airways, potentially resulting in death.
The cytokine storm (hypercytokinemia) is the systemic expression of a healthy and vigorous immune system resulting in the release of more than 150 inflammatory mediators (cytokines, oxygen free radicals, and coagulation factors). Both pro-inflammatory cytokines (such as Tumor necrosis factor-alpha, Interleukin-1, and Interleukin-6) and anti-inflammatory cytokines (such as interleukin 10, and interleukin 1 receptor antagonist) are elevated in the serum of patients experiencing a cytokine storm.
Cytokine storms can occur in a number of infectious and non-infectious diseases including graft versus host disease (GVHD), adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), sepsis, avian influenza, smallpox, and systemic inflammatory response syndrome (SIRS).”
https://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/Cytokine_storm
The evidence is strong that a lot of people are in various states of deficiency of one or more vitamins and minerals, and that this condition is not on the radar of very many doctors, least of all not the ones in emergency rooms and ICUs and doing hospital admittance.
I am wondering what the result would be if every patient that shows up at a hospital is immediately given a IV cocktails of every single necessary vitamin and mineral in an amount sufficient to correct a possible deficiency, without waiting for testing to be done for each?
I am also wondering how often such tests are run at all, even for the ones that are known to be commonly deficient in many people, and/or the ones which are important for proper immune function?
In fact it is impossible to be completely healthy while deficient in any necessary nutrient, and yet this is not typically taken into account or even considered by doctors.
It is very unlikely that any vitamin or mineral can cure someone of an infection.
There are endless lists of studies over the years regarding vitamins and minerals and supplementation.
For every one which claimed to find a positive correlation, there are others which found none, with a very few exceptions.
People who take care of themselves tend to be healthy, and people who do not tend to not be as likely to be perfectly healthy.
There is far more to it than taking some vitamin and mineral pills.
Not getting sick, or getting a less severe illness if and when one does get sick, involves many factors, besides nutrition, and taking a bunch of zinc will not make up for making mistakes in other aspects.
Get plenty of sleep.
Get exercise, including the type of exertion that breaks down muscle tissues that have to then be rebuilt. This tearing down and rebuilding is accomplished by immune cells.
Have good hygiene, and avoid sick people, and take any and all precautions that are known to lessen the amount of any pathogens getting into your body while around other people that may be sick…which right now means just about everyone you may encounter.
And in case you do get sick, do not make up your mind about anything before there is clear and strong and abundant and overlapping evidence.
Because if you do, there is an excellent chance you will have done the worst thing is is possible to do: Decided something is true which is in fact false.
This is far worse than not having any idea about what might be true, and is even worse than abject ignorance.
Many seems to have forgotten what is meant my the word “proof”.
Proof is not hearing or reading something that confirms what you thing or want to be true.
Being wrong about certain things can get you killed in the year 2020.
If you are sure of anything, you ought to be sure of that.
Good advice. And if you take pharmaceuticals, find out if they deplete certain nutrients, and supplement accordingly, if applicable.
The big vitamin D mistake
So, not 1.000 IU is the daily need, but at least 8.000 IU.
Sorry, wrong placed answer, was thought for William Astley
Nevertheless may be for yout interest, as you are ponting correctly on mineral and vitamine deficiencies.
“do not make up your mind about anything before there is clear and strong and abundant and overlapping evidence”
And no opinions either!
“And in case you do get sick, do not make up your mind about anything before there is clear and strong and abundant and overlapping evidence.”
Ah, that’s another matter. Long experience shows that those with sicknesses with poor prognosis tend to be willing to try anything. Doing nothing is accepting death; some are okay with that. For the rest, there is nothing left to lose by trying something unproven.
Every one of the antivirals or other types of drugs being used on an experimental basis to treat COVID has been shown to be not particularly effective on people who are at the point of “nothing left to lose”.
If you are alive, you have everything left to lose.
By the time you are about to die, none of the experimental drugs is shown to be any sort of miracle cure.
For people who are not particularly ill, or not having bad symptoms, all available evidence is that the odds of dying are very low…somewhere around 1% more or less…and that is overall for all age groups and demographics.
For the people who are not old, the odds of dying are vanishingly small.
For people between about 50 and 70 who are otherwise in relatively good health or have well controlled symptoms of some chronic condition, the odds of dying are somewhat higher but still on the low side.
And if you have several comorbidities, or are very old, you might have more risk from side effects of some experimental treatment than from the disease.
Especially if you have progressed to the point of having “nothing left to lose”.
No one alive “nothing left to lose”, IMO.
The idea is itself inane.
The people who are worst off are the ones these drugs are quite certain not to be able to help, and may very well hurt.
As for doing nothing. who was talking about doing nothing?
That is the one thing I have not heard anyone advocate for.
I started out talking about the value of adequate nutrient levels and correcting dangerous deficiencies.
And no one ought to wait to get sick to start worrying about correcting that.
But if someone is too dumb to keep themselves in a condition of good nutrition, it sure ought to be something that medical doctors are on the alert for, given the overwhelming evidence that many separate nutrients play a critical role in immune health, not to mention general wellness.
No one who reads what I write about here could possibly think I have ever suggested doing nothing.
Doing any old thing at random hardly seems to be an optimum strategy in medical science, though.
Nor does obtusely stubborn regarding what evidence one is willing to let pass from the ears and eyes into the cognitive centers of the brain, seem to be a pragmatic approach to health, wellness, or medical intervention.
This is murder by government. This is what R. J. Rummel termed “democide” and defined it as “the intentional killing of an unarmed or disarmed person by government agents acting in their authoritative capacity and pursuant to government policy or high command”.
Lawsuits are in order and bound to be in the cards. Doxing those responsible will probably also happen. It is great to see doctors just ignoring the “orders”. That is smart because we all know how “I was just following orders” turns out.
Here is a link to a 1000 patient trial
“Conclusion
Administration of the HCQ+AZ combination before COVID-19 complications occur is safe and associated with very low fatality rate in patients.”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302179
What, no zinc?
HCQ faithful are screaming angrily that giving it without zinc is bound to fail.
So which is it?
Nicholas:
You just wrote:
“HCQ faithful are screaming angrily that giving it without zinc is bound to fail.”
Not only is this statement not helpful, it’s juvenile at best. When I scan for information and read something like that, i usually just skip right over it. It detracts from an otherwise cogent conversation.
A higher level of understanding requires ensuring ample Zn is provisioned, otherwise the study is flawed. This is not faith based. Why? Because it ensures that there is ample Zn for the mechanism to work. Without ample Zn, a Zn ionophore can have little success getting Zn into Alveolar cells.
Are you able to understand this?
If this does not make sense, let me know and I will explain it using analogies.
Look, this report has all sorts of problems, not the least of which is that the updated death count (now at at least ten, as there have been deaths since the date of this preprint) gives a death rate about the same as the overall death rate…about 1% more or less.
In addition, this report again makes reference to the discredited study which claimed a 100% cure rate…after all the people who got worse and who died were eliminated from the study conclusion.
Guess what…if you subtract all the people who got worse and who died, eating toenails will give you a 100% cure rate!
This is exactly the sort of unscientific write up that makes any actual conclusions impossible.
Of 1000 people who “had relatively mild disease at admission”, about 1% died, and some were still in the hospital.
How exactly is this any different than people who got only the usual supportive care and no experimental medications?
ICYMI, even Raoult is backing away from his initial claims.
Because they were ridiculous and wrong, and his own patients prove it.
A study with zinc+ HCQ+AZ Zinc early helps later not much help.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf
Looking at the mortality, this treatment cuts the mortality by 50%. Not perfect but better than doing nothing. Could have really saved a lot of lives if used. Hopefully will save a lot of lives when used.
Terry: Agreed.
Here’s the political problem. Now anyone who got in the way of allowing what we KNOW works (Zn ionophore and Zn), has to be viewed as having blood on their hands. That is just a plain fact.
I am sorry to say it that way, but all of the intellectual discussions about double blind studies, which if they cause us not to act now, will as a matter of fact be too late to help. This is a devastating blow to the lives of people who did not receive common sense treatment. People will want to be right. That’s fine for discussions, but the evil of not allowing the treatment that is known to drastically interfere with the virus replication is something I have a hard time with.
I am drawing attention to the endless hypocrisy of the malaria drug advocates, and you are included in that group.
You have one good idea…skip anything I write.
You do not have the ability to have a rational discussion.
Nicholas: You, are a scatter brained suffering from delusions. I have previously asked you to tell me specifically what you were referring to when you called me a hypocrite, not to my face or to me, but you told the audience here as much.
Yes, you have a lot to say, some of it true, but often irrelevant. The biggest problem with you is a severe lack of judgement or understanding of complex things. You say things that cannot be traced, while at other times point people to other links and tell them to guess at the needle in the haystack. You also do not know the meaning of some of the words you use, such as hypocrite. Maybe you’re referring to hippocratic oath… but that does not quite fit either. By the way, people like you are in the way.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410
HCQ not better than placebo
An observational study is no better than a placebo. Looking at outcomes, and then working back to see that when the docror was really worried that this patient is going to have a bad outcome – better try HCQ, there’s nothing to lose. Not of an acceptable standard.
Tell that to all of the people who have claimed that there is no need to ever have a control group, a double blind study, or any randomization…because all one needs to do is compare the results from anyone who got a particular drug to the results of people who did not get it.
Of course, none of those people had anything to say in defense of the exact sort of analysis that they advocated for and said was all anyone needed to do to prove whether something worked or not.
At this point malaria drug advocates grab on tightly to any shred of a suggestion that these drugs are a cure for COVID, and to flatly reject any result that suggests or even demonstrates otherwise.
At this point there is a growing mountain of evidence these drugs are worthless for patients infected with coronavirus, not even helping with the cytokine storm aspect.
Why anyone would choose to believe something important based on nothing but a supposition and a hard headed stubborn resistance to new information, rather than to wish to know what the actual truth is so that people with a disease can be helped, is a question for psychologists.
It must be, because it has nothing to do with science or medicine.
At this point the list of study results showing these drugs should not be used is getting longer every day.
Nicholas: wrote:
“At this point malaria drug advocates grab on tightly to any shred of a suggestion that these drugs are a cure for COVID”
My response: Doctors and medical people prescribing it know the difference between what HCQ and Zn does and the meaning of the word cure. There is a mechanism which mitigates RNA replication (and some additional benefits). It gives the immune response an advantage if given early enough. Either you don’t know what cure means or you are dishonestly injecting it into the argument so you can have something to complain about –you make stuff up. Not helpful.
“It must be, because it has nothing to do with science or medicine.”
My response:
That is a complete rubbish, and again you create false strawman arguments.
Everyone here knows that you cannot address issues based on the actual merits so you create a false dichotomy in the form of a strawman and hurl it onto others who are not making such claims.
I’ve read your posts, and it is clear you have slice of reasoning power missing, which precludes you from the ability to engage in a cogent discussion.
People should not wait for months and months to get the permission of your ilk all while people who would benefit have days before this treatment is of value. You will be shown (I think you already have been) for the dishonest debate performance you’ve set forth here.
Conclusion: you do not understand the definition of the word hypocrite, yet you use the term in self created fictional arguments. Go chase a windmill, it won’t move or fight back.
You can continue to create illusions through strawman agruments because you cannot seem to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time.
Well, that is your problem.
At least you have the possibility of independent thought amongst your doctors in the USA.
https://aapsonline.org/a-tale-of-two-drugs-money-vs-medical-wisdom/
Here in the UK, the monolithic NHS this year has not only stopped the non-prescription over-the-counter sale of chloroquine, but limits its use to only in trials of already hospitalised patients.
https://www.npa.co.uk/news-and-events/news-item/chloroquine-otc-requests-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
It is almost as if they have an agenda to prevent it being uused effectively as an antiviral, and want to prove that it doesn’t work as a cure for someone on their deathbed.
BTW, whistleblower Dr. Bright (IIRC), when he was a bigshot in the FDA, adamantly and successfully opposed any pro-HCQ distribution or recommendations, insisting on time-consuming double-blind studies first.
I think some of these high-level officials don’t care about saving lives so much as ensuring that their institution never gets accused of being non-rigorous, non-“scientific,” etc.
IOW, the prime motivation of officials and other bigshots is to maintain their “one-up” status.
Given the similarity of pronouncements by Cuomo,Sisolak and Whitmer in particular it isn’t unreasonable to assume that they were briefed from the same source.
The utility of HCQ is still being debated but using the baseline of Hippocratic “do no harm” and the purported therapeutic dosing – an opinion that some folk in the DNC decided to try and shoot down “Orange Man’s wonder drug” regardless of its efficacy – has some credibility.
I wonder if they were dumb enough to elaborate via email?
I do hope so….
“it isn’t unreasonable to assume that they were briefed from the same source.”
I suspect Dr. Bright.
Not healthcare, sickcare, Codex Alimentarius. I’ll stick to Gin and Tonic Water until this all blows over.