An effective treatment for #Coronavirus #COVID-19 has been found in a common anti-malarial drug

UPDATE: A Covid-19 case correlation between malarial and non-malarial countries has been plotted by Dr. Roy Spencer, and the results are stunning – see below.

Encouraging news: three new medical studies show a commonly available anti-malaria drug known as chloroquine aka chloroquine phosphate is showing strong results against COVID-19 infections in both China and South Korea.  Excerpts from three studies, including one published in Nature are below.

quinine word in a dictionary. quinine concept.

An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Presented by: James M. Todaro, MD and Gregory J. Rigano, Esq.

In consultation with Stanford University School of Medicine, UAB School of Medicine and National Academy of Sciences researchers.

SPANISH: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR1adodKPhWalV9djnerI2x_v1LGgGyhZZxpl0O5r-ZNyDdagqFq1rTCxXBqaeicfxgvypDOqKCZVyV/pub

        Translation by: Celia Martínez-Aceves (Yale B.S. Candidate 2021),  Martín Martínez (MIT B.S. 2017)

Summary

Recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that chloroquine is an effective antiviral therapeutic treatment against Coronavirus Disease 2019.  Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay.  US CDC research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed.  Chloroquine is an inexpensive, globally available drug that has been in widespread human use since 1945 against malaria, autoimmune and various other conditions.  

Chloroquine: C18H26ClN3

Background

The U.S. CDC and World Health Organization have not published treatment measures against Coronavirus disease 2019 (“COVID-19”).  Medical centers are starting to have issues with traditional protocols.  Treatments, and ideally a preventative measure, are needed.   South Korea and China have had significantly more exposure and time to analyze diagnostic, treatment and preventative options.  The U.S., Europe and the rest of the world can learn from their experience.  According to former FDA commissioner, board member of Pfizer and Illumina, Scott Gotlieb MD, the world can learn the most about COVID-19 by paying closest attention to the response of countries that have had significant exposure to COVID-19 before the U.S. and Europe.[1]

As per the U.S. CDC, “Chloroquine (also known as chloroquine phosphate) is an antimalarial medicine… Chloroquine is available in the United States by prescription only… Chloroquine can be prescribed for either prevention or treatment of malaria. Chloroquine can be prescribed to adults and children of all ages. It can also be safely taken by pregnant women and nursing mothers.”[2]

CDC research also shows that “chloroquine can affect virus infection in many ways, and the antiviral effect depends in part on the extent to which the virus utilizes endosomes for entry. Chloroquine has been widely used to treat human diseases, such as malaria, amoebiosis, HIV, and autoimmune diseases, without significant detrimental side effects.”[3]

The treatment guidelines of both South Korea and China against COVID-19 are generally consistent, outlining chloroquine as an effective treatment.

Specifically, according to the Korea Biomedical Review, in February 2020 in South Korea, the COVID-19 Central Clinical Task Force, composed of physicians and experts treating patients agreed upon treatment principles for patients with COVID-19.[4]  In China, the General Office of the National Health Commission, General Office of the State Administration of Traditional Chinese Medicine as well as a Multi-Center Collaborative Group of Guangdong Provincial Department of Science and Technology and Guangdong Provincial Health Comp and the China National Center for Biotechnology Development have established effective treatment measures based on human studies.[5]

 According to their research (reported in Clinical Trials Arena),

“Data from the drug’s [chloroquine] studies showed ‘certain curative effect’ with ‘fairly good efficacy’ … patients treated with chloroquine demonstrated a better drop in fever, improvement of lung CT images, and required a shorter time to recover compared to parallel groups.  The percentage of patients with negative viral nucleic acid tests was also higher with the anti-malarial drug…  Chloroquine has so far shown no obvious serious adverse reactions in more than 100 participants in the trials…  Chloroquine was selected after several screening rounds of thousands of existing drugs.  Chloroquine is undergoing further trials in more than ten hospitals in Beijing, Guangdong province and Hunnan province.”[6]

Chloroquine as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against COVID-19[11]

According to research by the US CDC, chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS coronavirus, both prophylactically and therapeutically.  SARS coronavirus has significant similarities to COVID-19.  Specifically, the CDC research was completed in primate cells using chloroquine’s well known function of elevating endosomal pH.  The results show that “We have identified chloroquine as an effective antiviral agent for SARS-CoV in cell culture conditions, as evidenced by its inhibitory effect when the drug was added prior to infection or after the initiation and establishment of infection. The fact that chloroquine exerts an antiviral effect during pre- and post-infection conditions suggest that it is likely to have both prophylactic and therapeutic advantages.”

The study shows that chloroquine is effective in preventing SARS-CoV infection in cell culture if the drug is added to the cells 24 h prior to infection.

FIGURE 1

Prophylactic effect of chloroquine. Vero E6 cells pre-treated with chloroquine for 20 hrs. Chloroquine-containing media were removed and the cells were washed with phosphate buffered saline before they were infected with SARS-CoV (0.5 multiplicity of infection) for 1 h in the absence of chloroquine. Virus was then removed and the cells were maintained in Opti-MEM (Invitrogen) for 16–18 h in the absence of chloroquine. SARS-CoV antigens were stained with virus-specific HMAF, followed by FITC-conjugated secondary antibodies. (A) The concentration of chloroquine used is indicated on the top of each panel. (B) SARS-CoV antigen-positive cells at three random locations were captured by using a digital camera, the number of antigen-positive cells was determined, and the average inhibition was calculated. Percent inhibition was obtained by considering the untreated control as 0% inhibition. The vertical bars represent the range of SEM.

In addition, the study also shows that chloroquine was very effective even when the drug was added 3–5 h after infection, suggesting an antiviral effect even after the establishment of infection.

The UK has banned the export of Chloroquine[13]

As of February 26, 2020, the UK government has added chloroquine to the list of medicines that cannot be parallel exported from the UK.  Chloroquine was never on this list before.  This likely happened because of the growing body of evidence of chloroquine’s effectiveness against coronavirus.

China prioritizes internal use of Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs) including Chloroquine[14]

In early February, Chongqing Kangle Pharmaceutical was requested by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, Consumption Division to promptly increase the manufacturing and production of the active pharmaceutical ingredients chloroquine phosphate despite slowed production during the Chinese New Year.

Conclusion

Chloroquine can both both prevent and treat malaria.  Chloroquine can prevent and treat coronavirus in primate cells (Figure 1 and Figure 2).  According to South Korean and China human treatment guidelines, chloroquine is effective in treating COVID-19.  Given chloroquine’s human safety profile and existence, it can be implemented today in the U.S., Europe and the rest of the world.  Medical doctors may be reluctant to prescribe chloroquine to treat COVID-19 since it is not FDA approved for this use.  The United States of America and other countries should immediately authorize and indemnify medical doctors for prescribing chloroquine to treat COVID-19.  We must explore whether chloroquine can safely serve as a preventative measure prior to infection of COVID-19 to stop further spread of this highly contagious virus.

Full study available here


Then there’s this second study:

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studiesJianjun GaoZhenxue TianXu Yang

Abstract

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/_article


Finally, there’s a new study in the prestigious journal Nature:

Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

Excerpt:

Chloroquine, a widely-used anti-malarial and autoimmune disease drug, has recently been reported as a potential broad-spectrum antiviral drug.8,9 Chloroquine is known to block virus infection by increasing endosomal pH required for virus/cell fusion, as well as interfering with the glycosylation of cellular receptors of SARS-CoV.10 Our time-of-addition assay demonstrated that chloroquine functioned at both entry, and at post-entry stages of the 2019-nCoV infection in Vero E6 cells (Fig. 1c, d). Besides its antiviral activity, chloroquine has an immune-modulating activity, which may synergistically enhance its antiviral effect in vivo. Chloroquine is widely distributed in the whole body, including lung, after oral administration. The EC90 value of chloroquine against the 2019-nCoV in Vero E6 cells was 6.90 μM, which can be clinically achievable as demonstrated in the plasma of rheumatoid arthritis patients who received 500 mg administration.11 Chloroquine is a cheap and a safe drug that has been used for more than 70 years and, therefore, it is potentially clinically applicable against the 2019-nCoV.

Our findings reveal that remdesivir and chloroquine are highly effective in the control of 2019-nCoV infection in vitro. Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease.

Study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0?fbclid=IwAR2JbbZU_Hl7uLjuOTDhrNnmczzyEFvnIhY8QHv9ghY5fYBvX0IsmnhD07w


A commonly available over-the-counter quinine source exists in Margosa Tree Bark and Cinchona succirubra, Peruvian Bark

Tablets of bark extract are widely available in tablet form, from many sources, including Amazon.com here.

There’s also quinine in Tonic Water, which is available just about anywhere at any grocery or liquor store and also at Amazon:

Tonic water is a soft drink containing quinine, which gives it a bitter taste. Quinine is a common treatment for malaria. Quinine comes from the bark of the cinchona tree.


UPDATE:

From Facebook, Dr. Roy Spencer adds this new information.- Anthony

On the subject of using antimalarial drugs for COVID-19 treatment, I’ve compared COVID-19 cases versus malaria incidence by country….

This is amazing. I downloaded all of the data for 234 countries, incidence of total COVID-19 cases (as of 3/17/2020) versus the incidence of malaria in those countries (various sources, kinda messy matching everything up in Excel).

RESULTS, Multi-country average malaria cases per thousand, COVID-19 cases per million, in three classes of countries based on malaria incidence:

  • Top 40 Malaria countries: 212 malaria = 0.2 COVID-19;
  • Next 40 Malaria countries: 7.3 malaria = 10.1 COVID-19
  • Remaining (81-234) countries: 0.00 malaria = 68.7 COVID-19

Again, the units are Malaria cases per thousand “population at risk”, and COVID-19 cases per million total population.

In all my years of data analysis I have never seen such a stark and strong relationship: Countries with malaria basically have no COVID-19 cases (at least not yet).


Additional support for antimalarial drugs for COVID-19 treatment comes from this investigation linked below.

The map says it all: COVID-19 is where Malaria is not.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YDytbAsZaruGlhFO7eTTgxSH_BuxJtwFmbhqpkPPSk/mobilebasic?fbclid=IwAR2wXhG5woobpV5DAuHxnf7YOxalQiCkPMX-rUL2z6SIa0AJGovbJ9ATq7A

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Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 6:17 am

Would Tonic water help?

Curious George
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 8:15 am

Tonic Water is usually sweetened. That sugar would kill you. For your own good, it is taxed in most progressive locations.

MIKE MCHENRY
Reply to  Curious George
March 17, 2020 9:29 am

There is a lot more sugar in potatoes, pasta, white bread etc. Plants are sugar factories. Principally making fructose and glucose. Sucrose your typical sweetener is a plant sugar made of guess what fructose and glucose. The taxing of soft drinks is therefore absurd.

Reply to  MIKE MCHENRY
March 17, 2020 11:22 am

MIKE,
Curious George has been known to oit the /Sarc tag . . .

Auto

eddie willers
Reply to  auto
March 17, 2020 12:45 pm

Thnks. That simmered me down.

Loydo
Reply to  auto
March 17, 2020 8:08 pm

LdB
Reply to  auto
March 18, 2020 8:28 pm

Funny watching an old educated over-thinker trying to deal with reality 🙂

Reply to  auto
March 19, 2020 4:28 am

The video posted by Loydo is pretty good imo – Dr John Campbell appears quite knowledgeable and helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching

Gary Pearse
Reply to  auto
March 19, 2020 8:48 am

Loydo, thank you for this excellent review of CoronaV mechanics. I mark a great day when I learn something new.

Henning Nielsen
Reply to  MIKE MCHENRY
March 18, 2020 8:13 am

Not from the point of view of the tax office.

Arbeegee
Reply to  MIKE MCHENRY
March 19, 2020 8:34 am

All the starch turns to sugar once it hits your stomach acid.

Reply to  MIKE MCHENRY
March 25, 2020 8:33 pm

You’re not making a clear distinction between refined and whole food sources of ‘sugar’.
They are vastly different in how the sugar gets absorbed and what effects it has within the human body. We can’t compare refined grains with whole grains and neither can we compare fructose, glucose or table sugar with fruit.

There are thousands of phytochemicals in ‘sugar factories’, as you call them. If you remove these, sugar gets absorbed more quickly and anti-inflammatory effects present in the original package disappear and often make place for the emergence of inflammatory properties.
How all the phytochemicals act within the body is incredibly complex with the microbiome playing a central role.
Legumes for example has tons of ‘sugar’. but it can blunt blood glucose, due to a complex interaction with beneficial microbes in the gut. If you’d isolate the carbohydrates and remove the rest of the nutrients, that cannot happen.

The amount of science we have on the effects of added sugar on health is immense. Taxes make a lot of sense actually in the interest of the general health of the public.

Not that all policies are in the best interest of the public, due to conflicts of interest, but that’s another story.

Take care.

Robert of Texas
Reply to  Curious George
March 17, 2020 12:28 pm

You can buy artificially sweetened tonic water, and let the sweetener give you cancer instead.
(And yes, I am joking)

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Robert of Texas
March 19, 2020 8:53 am

Can I trade a pickup truck full of toilet paper for one of tonic water? Maybe the government would give a permit for large gin and tonic parties! I actually have some chloroquine pills in my kit.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Curious George
March 17, 2020 12:48 pm

The accompanying gin is of course entirely medicinal… and don’t forget the vitamin C in the twist of lime or lemon.

The British developed the habit in India (hence the Bombay Sapphire brand of gin), and found it quite useful in dealing with malaria. But you ,might prefer a long one to increase your quinine dose.

Bloke down the pub
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
March 20, 2020 5:00 am

As long as the gin is at least 70% alcohol, it can also be used as disinfectant hand wash.

Sheri
Reply to  Curious George
March 17, 2020 3:55 pm

Then I’m dead and I don’t know it??? 😉

Richard
Reply to  Curious George
March 17, 2020 8:14 pm

‘Progressive’?!? The unintended negative consequences of most ‘progressive’ policies make the regressive in effect. And with that being seen over and over, one suspects that the regressive results are perversely desired by the progressive elites, who somehow manage to gain more control as they distance themselves from the suffering masses.

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  Curious George
March 18, 2020 4:02 am

They make diet tonic water. I used to make gin & diet tonic when I could tolerate alcohol. Too many meds now. Don’t forget the twist of lime. Yummy.

LibraryGryffon
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
March 18, 2020 9:31 am

If you don’t have any lime, it’s also good with a slice of cucumber.

And now, since I am one of the many furloughed and have nothing else to do today, I’m going to make a stiff G&T to go with lunch.

Sadly I’m the only one In my family who can stand the bitter of quinine. I on the other hand will happily drink tonic water even without the gin.

Max Newell
Reply to  LibraryGryffon
March 18, 2020 8:00 pm

A sprig of rosemary even better with G&T.

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  Curious George
March 18, 2020 10:01 am

After reading this and the post by Willis I did some investigation of the Diamond PrIncess following a comment at Jo Nova’s

“”On the theme of the effect of anti-malarials, is it possible that these drugs could have influenced the Diamond Princess outcome?””

I did some research on the subject following that post

Malaria is found in more than 100 countries, mainly in tropical regions of the world, including:
large areas of Africa and Asia.
Central and South America.
Haiti and the Dominican Republic.
parts of the Middle East.
some Pacific islands

When the Diamond Princess left the port of Yokohama in Japan on January 20, the 2,666 passengers on board were ready to enjoy a trip to China, Vietnam and Taiwan.

I Looked at the UK NHS web site
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/malaria

and also specific advice for travellers to the area

Taiwan would seem to be free of malaria but have other infection possibilities. Both China and Vietnam have Malaria and numerous other dangers . Reading the advice from the Diamond Princess operators and the medical authorities, vaccinations are suggested or required, together with taking anti malarial tablets including Chloroquine.

Bearing in mind the age group and likely health issues of many of the passengers and mandatory requirements and Insurance demands I would be amazed if anti malarial type precautions were not required for EVERY passenger. Whether that applies to crew members I can’t say.

So that could explain why the entire complement on the ship didn’t come down with Covid 19 if indeed, as is being suggested, anti malarial drugs have some impact on it

tonyb

Peter O'Brien
Reply to  tonyb
March 18, 2020 4:04 pm

Tonyb, in February my wife and I took a cruise to PNG and accepted government advice to take anti malarial treatment, even though we would only be ashore, during the daytime, on 4 occasions. The cruise line did not require us to have this treatment but we thought better safe than sorry. I doubt many other passengers did this and I suspect Diamond Princess was the same.

tonyb
Editor
Reply to  Peter O'Brien
March 19, 2020 4:09 am

Peter

Thanks for that. But would peoples health insurance demand they take all reasonable precautions when going to known malaria prone areas?

tonyb

Rob
Reply to  Peter O'Brien
March 19, 2020 10:28 am

The drug most often prescribed as a prophylactic for travel is Lariam (mefloquin) which can have some pretty unpleasant side effects. I was warned of these side effects and I know some people who have had severe psychological side effects after taking it . I suspect many passengers would be relying on anti-mosquito measures rather than take Lariam unless they were visiting a high malaria-risk area, not just a country where malaria is present.

Chloroquine is a drug with much lower side effects, but there are Chloroquine-resistant populations of plasmodium around, hence this drug is rarely recommended as a prophylactic.

Phoenix44
Reply to  Curious George
March 19, 2020 6:26 am

Yeah, thanks for doing that for my own good. Because one drink of tonic water a year will do what to me exactly?

Charly
Reply to  Curious George
March 20, 2020 5:49 am

“Drop the honey jar and put your hands up, punk!”

Joseph Adam-Smith
Reply to  Curious George
March 20, 2020 9:48 am

And, it’s no good without gin! OK, you need to drink a lot of it but, I’m working on it! LOL.

bluecat57
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 9:49 am

Only with Bombay Sapphire gin which contains elderberry.

Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 10:59 am

Dunno, but I drink it regularly!

Reply to  Leo Smith
March 23, 2020 12:17 pm

I live in the Baja and was able to get 2 boxes of Chloroquine 150 mg 30 capsules a few days ago when this article came out. – over the counter.
Unfortunately I only got one box. Went to that pharmacy today and now they are out of it …
I guess the word got out pretty fast…. all my friends wanted mee to pick it up, but the word is out here in Mexico.

cat
Reply to  Jon P Peterson
March 26, 2020 1:46 pm

John,

Can you still get ketamine in Baja? OTC?

Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 11:31 am

Well, just looked it up – tonic water has something like 83mg / liter. So, call it six liters a day to get the studied 500mg dose.

(Self-administer as a G&T, and you’ll likely end up in the ER with alcohol poisoning. But maybe not worried about coronavirus. Or much of anything else…)

Robert B
Reply to  Writing Observer
March 17, 2020 4:03 pm

You can buy syrups that contain higher amounts. You still might get a bit tipsy.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Writing Observer
March 19, 2020 9:04 am

Writing Observer: the dosage in trials in the several studies was actually 90% of optimum at 6.9mg. A gin and tonic per dose would seem perfect. The 500mg is used by rhumatoid arthritis patients. This was simply to show that side effects would be insignificant at 1% of this dosage.

John Q Public
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 21, 2020 3:18 pm

Can you provide a link for that? The French study appeared to use 600mg/day for Corvid 19.

meiggs
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 3:14 pm

Bonal Gentiane-Quina is much, much better!

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 17, 2020 8:12 pm

I think the Gin would help even more.

Doug Huffman
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 18, 2020 4:30 am

The dose of quinine in tonic water is very low. It has been evaluated for relief of cramping in athletes and seniors.

Philo
Reply to  Doug Huffman
March 18, 2020 12:48 pm

the dose is maybe equivalent to the dose of potassium in an average banana as far as cramps go.

jon
Reply to  Philo
March 19, 2020 3:27 pm

“the dose is maybe equivalent to the dose of potassium in an average banana as far as cramps go.”
Philo, there’s at least one video on Youtube with a Dr (trust me I’m a …) warning people against eating too many bananas because the potassium in them could create potassium poisoning.
“could” sounds like a climate scientist speaking doesn’t it!
Of course there is no prescribed level of bananas since no one knows how many you actually have to eat as there’s no known case of potassium poisoning through consumption of bananas.
Save the bananas, let people die! Bananas “may” be in danger of extinction!
Our children won’t know what a banana tastes like in X years!
All those exclamation marks! It’s like a Ludlum novel!
How else could the progressives stuff it up?

Larry James
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 18, 2020 9:47 am

Quinine was taken off the market several years ago in the US. I know because it was once prescribed for leg cramps, which I have quite often.

2hotel9
Reply to  Larry James
March 19, 2020 7:38 am

When that was in the offing I stocked up.

Jim Powell
Reply to  Larry James
March 19, 2020 4:24 pm

Take magnesium supplement and cut out the sugar.

kramer
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 19, 2020 1:56 am

I don’t know but I bought a few bottles.

michael hart
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 19, 2020 2:15 am

Would Tonic water help?

Most likely not.

Please, people, chloroquine, and hydroxychloroquine, ARE NOT THE SAME AS QUININE.

Yes, they are all antimalarials, but the antiviral effect of chloroquine is attributed to it being a zinc ionophore. There is no good (bio)chemical reason to assume that quinine is also a zinc ionophore. It is not the antimalarial activity that is responsible for the antiviral activity. So swallowing any old antimalarial drug (quinine) is not likely to help against Corona virus.

Ian W
Reply to  michael hart
March 19, 2020 3:25 am

The Chloroquine and HydroxyChloroquine help shuttle Zinc into the cells. Zinc interferes with/stops the viral RNA transcription inside the cells and halts the proliferation of the virus. Provided the diet is sufficiently high in Zinc this will be an effective treatment. As has been shown now by https://www.covidtrial.io/

The entire panic has been caused by the normal bad use of statistics by the medical community.

Testing was only done for active presence of the novel corona virus and not for the antibodies to it hugely reducing the size of the denominator and providing a falsely elevated mortality rate. That was followed by a politician led ‘autoimmune cascade’ response damaging businesses worldwide.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Ian W
March 19, 2020 5:08 am

I remember reading a trial where simple Zinc tabs were found to be as useful as antivirals for flu relief as well as cold duration/relief
I always start taking zinc at the first throat niggle as well as gargling with baking soda tastes foul but changes the ph in the throat, get it early enough and it does halt the bug I found but it MUST be early.

mario lento
Reply to  ozspeaksup
March 19, 2020 9:44 am

Me too. Interestingly, I carry a 1 ounce nip (brandy or whiskey) with me when I feel an onset. All it takes is a tiny sip. Burns a tad and then soothes. Better than a gargle since you can swallow it and get all of the throat swabbed.

Dodgy Geezer
Reply to  Ian W
March 19, 2020 2:03 pm

Give this man a cigar for accurate appreciation of the issue.

Then let the establishment silence him to save face…

LOL@Klimate Katastrophe Kooks
Reply to  michael hart
March 29, 2020 2:18 pm

Chlorquine is merely an amine acidotropic form of quinine. I can’t find anything online as to whether its a zinc ionophore, but I did find that quinine reduces hepatic metabolism of zinc.

First, we establish that chloroquine is quinine produced synthetically and altered slightly to produce a new molecule for patenting purposes. The end product in the body is still quinine. Newer molecules (such as hydroxychloroquine) decrease toxicity, allowing longer dosage schedules.

By the 1930s Dutch plantations in Java were producing 22 million pounds of cinchona bark, or 97% of the world’s quinine production. When Japan invaded Java in 1941, natural quinine supplies dried up, necessitating mass production of synthetic derivatives. [8]

Chloroquine is an amine acidotropic form of quinine that was synthesized in Germany by Bayer in 1934 and emerged approximately 70 years ago as an effective substitute for natural quinine [4].

Quinine is eliminated mainly by hepatic metabolism [1]. Seven metabolites have been identified with 3-hydroxyquinine being the major metabolite [1]. Other majority metabolites are (10R)-10,11-dihydroxyquinine and (10S)-10,11-dihydroxyquinine [2].

Quinine acts against malaria by targeting its purine nucleoside phosphorylase enzyme (PfPNP) [3], but it has other effects in the body which act against coronavirus.

Namely, it targets angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) [4], interfering with sialic acid biosynthesis [4]. SARS, MERS and Covid-19 use sialic acid moieties as receptors, so quinine (and its synthetic counterparts) prevent viral attachment to cell receptors.

Chloroquine can also act on the immune system through cell signalling and regulation of pro-inflammatory cytokines. [4]

It also acts to increase zinc uptake, which has anti-viral effects. Quinine used to be sold, prior to the FDA banning it for this use, as a treatment for leg cramps. The mechanism of action is increased uptake of zinc, calcium and magnesium by reducing hepatic metabolism of zinc [10]. Now it is recommended to directly ingest zinc, calcium and magnesium for leg cramps rather than taking quinine. [9]

This may be why people infected with Covid-19 experience a loss of the sense of taste (and smell, since the two senses are intricately connected) [11][12].

As to dosage, it generally takes 4 to 5 days to completely flush quinine from the body [5]. The consumption of 10 oz. of tonic water can result in a quinine positive urine sample for a period of up to 96 hours (4 days) after intake. [5] Approximately 20% of quinine is excreted unmetabolized [6]. It has a half-life of approximately 18 hours [6].

Quinine in tonic water in the US is limited to 83 mg / liter [7].

Thus, we can make a simple linear extrapolation, assuming a half-life of 18 hours and ingestion of 83 mg / day. This means that after 24 hours, approximately 27.67% of the amount from the prior day remains in the system. Thus it accumulates until the body is excreting as much as is ingested. That occurs after approximately 5 days, when the dosage varies between 124.5 mg immediately after ingestion to 41.5 mg immediately prior to the next ingestion.

comment image

Is that enough to have a prophylactic effect?

Well, the National Institutes of Health state that chloroquine is “a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection” [13] and since SARS binds to the same cellular receptors as Covid-19, and since chloroquine is a synthetic version of quinine, it would appear that it should work.

Pretreatment with 0.1, 1, and 10 μM chloroquine reduced infectivity by 28%, 53%, and 100%, respectively. [13]

The EC90 value of chloroquine against the 2019-nCoV in Vero E6 cells was 6.90 μM, which can be clinically achievable as demonstrated in the plasma of rheumatoid arthritis patients who received 500 mg administration. [14]

Interpolating the dosage of 500 mg to 6.9 μM concentration, for a dosage of 124.5 mg daily, that should give a concentration of ~1.71 μM, reducing infectivity by ~60% per [13].

Given that no doctor is going to give you chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic measure, using Indian tonic water containing quinine to reduce infectivity would seem to be a prudent preventative measure.

[1] https://www.drugs.com/npp/quinine.html

[2] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2710.2007.00788.x

[3] https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2019/01/22/quinines-target

[4] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300881

[5] https://friendslab.com/quinine-use-and-detection/

[6] https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00468

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine

[9] https://healthfully.com/287838-leg-cramps-magnesium-calcium.html

[10] https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-19765/cal-mag-zinc-ii-oral/details/list-interaction-details/dmid-455/dmtitle-aluminum-and-magnesium-antacids-quinidine-quinine/intrtype-drug

[11] https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/131/2/305/4687001

[12] https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-symptoms-loss-of-smell-taste-covid-19-anosmia-hyposmia-2020-3?op=1

[13] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

[14] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

LOL@Klimate Katastrophe Kooks
Reply to  LOL@Klimate Katastrophe Kooks
March 29, 2020 9:52 pm

Update to the text above to clarify and correct:
Interpolating the dosage of 500 mg to 6.9 μM concentration, for a dosage of 124.5 mg daily (83 mg from tonic water, the remainder being that remaining in the body from prior dosages), that should give a concentration of ~1.71 μM, reducing infectivity by ~60% immediately after ingestion of 1 L of Indian tonic water, decreasing over the next 24 hours to ~.47 μM, with a reduced infectivity of ~40%, per [13].

MarieC
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 19, 2020 8:15 am

No because tonic water no longer contains quinine.

muppets are us
Reply to  MarieC
March 19, 2020 10:02 am

In the UK it still does, listed in the ingredients on a bottle bought this week.

Philip Ford
Reply to  muppets are us
March 21, 2020 12:00 pm

Dear Sir,
Quinine, is still available in Soda water in the U.S.; You just Need to Check the labeling to make sure that you are buying the right Soda water.

Mike C
Reply to  MarieC
March 19, 2020 2:58 pm

I bought 4 of 1 liter bottles of tonic water with quinine last night at Walgreens in Huntington Beach, California

janm
Reply to  MarieC
March 20, 2020 9:39 am

It still does in Canada too. 🙂

Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 19, 2020 10:40 am

BTW, we don’t need to wait the warmer season, especially because we spend most time indoors. Just crank up AC to increase air temperature and humidity.

This poor man’s protection against respiratory viruses transmission is now shown to work against spread of COVID19.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3551767

EricSs
Reply to  Leo Goldstein
March 19, 2020 3:51 pm

Leo, AC and forced air heaters both reduce humidity, not increase it.

huls
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 19, 2020 1:02 pm

Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake.

W.C. Fields

Elof
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 20, 2020 1:13 am

I think 10 liters daily (2.6 gallons) will give you an effective dose …

Anne Rockwell
Reply to  Sean Postlewaite
March 29, 2020 5:50 am

Tonic water can be consumed to prevent the virus; the ingredient is Quinine; (Cinchona Bark);

Nick Graves
March 17, 2020 6:21 am

Anyone for a Gin & Tonic?

Reply to  Nick Graves
March 17, 2020 6:55 am

+10×1042

Mark Whitney
Reply to  David Middleton
March 18, 2020 4:15 am

David
Don’t panic! > ; }

Disputin
Reply to  Nick Graves
March 17, 2020 7:24 am

Yes, please! I’ll say when.

Oldseadog
Reply to  Disputin
March 17, 2020 11:03 am

The glass will tell you when.

David E Long
Reply to  Oldseadog
March 17, 2020 2:13 pm

The floor will tell you when.

TRM
Reply to  David E Long
March 18, 2020 10:26 pm

LOL

ColA
Reply to  Oldseadog
March 17, 2020 5:14 pm

It’s not the second glass that does the damage … it’s the second bottle!! 🙂

oeman50
Reply to  Nick Graves
March 17, 2020 8:55 am

When I saw the headline, I was hoping it was quinine. Now that I am “working from home” this will give me a sound medical reason for having G&Ts and V&Ts. I hope I don’t run out of limes!

Vuk
Reply to  oeman50
March 17, 2020 9:53 am

As things are progressing we might need a bit more than just Gin & Tonic
Although UK is doing a bit beret than some large European nations, graph near future projection looks more than grim, the exponential rise continues, both for the number of infected and dead. Here is today’s update
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/UK-COVID-19.htm

MarkW
Reply to  Vuk
March 17, 2020 11:08 am

If anyone is doing beret, I would have thought it would be the French.

Vuk
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 12:13 pm

Mark
a better beret; misspelling maybe an early symptom of alzheimer’s.
BTW, are you in a high risk age group re Covid-19?

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 2:05 pm

I turned 60 this month and have high blood pressure.

My company just announced that everyone works from home until further notice. I do programming and system maintenance, so as long as I can log in, I can work from anywhere.

I did have to go to the office to drag all of my monitors and other hardware home.

No cases in my county yet, but several of the surrounding counties have seen their first cases.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 2:07 pm

You know me, the only time I comment on a typo is when I can make a joke out of it.
Though sometimes I’m the only one who is able to see the joke.

Vuk
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 2:23 pm

Mark, you are welcome, I am just a bit alder than you and recently retired.
We do need occasional comment to bring a smile, too much gloomy around
“If we can get this down to 20,000 and below, that is a good outcome in terms of where we would hope to get to with this outbreak.”, the UK’s chief scientific adviser said today.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 6:29 pm

“I am just a bit alder ”

I’ve been accused of being wooden before, but never so directly.

ironargonaut
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 10:44 pm

A Monk, a Priest and Rabbit walk into a blood the Rabbit says I’m a type O.

ironargonaut
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 11:35 pm

Oops should be blood bank

Eric Harpham
Reply to  Vuk
March 17, 2020 1:55 pm

Unusual to see you making a mistake Vuk.

Exponential means rising for ever at a steeper rate. The graph for Covid 18 is a Gompertz curve where growth is slowest at the beginning and end.

See the article on WUWT Math of Epidemics March 13th 2020 by Willis Eschenbach.

But no matter what it’s called it is still worrying.

MarkW
Reply to  Eric Harpham
March 17, 2020 2:06 pm

We are in the exponential portion of the Gompertz curve.

Vuk
Reply to  Eric Harpham
March 17, 2020 3:14 pm

Hi Eric,
Not really, mistake is my middle name, however I did say “the exponential rise continues”.
As an engineer I’m well familiar with the Sigmoid function, I even used it to design a digital high-pass filter. You can easily plot it using
y= e^x/(1+e^x) . As the equation implies, whole of the curve is exponential including parts along the low and high asymptote.
Why not have some fun and plot it in excel =2.718^A1/(1+2.718^A1) , you could start with (A1=) -10, an increase subsequently (A2=) =A1+1, etc.
Now, if you do a mirror image you’ll get a reasonable band-pass filter. Sigmoid function is used as the base some bell curves as I believe is the Gompertz. However, there are other exponential frequency distribution curves including Gaussian but with a bit more complex formula, not as easy to plot.

Robertvd
Reply to  Vuk
March 17, 2020 3:28 pm

https://www.youtube.com/user/MEDCRAMvideos/videos

Medical Lectures Explained CLEARLY

Bulldust
Reply to  Robertvd
March 17, 2020 5:07 pm

I have started following this channel in the last couple of weeks as well. The Too Long Did Not Watch, is that the chloroquine drugs allow zinc to enter cells where the virus replication takes place, and the zinc inhibits the replication process.

I have no idea why western governments aren’t copying whatever South Korea is doing, because they have the best stats to date in dealing with this virus. South Korea’s numbers can be trusted to a high degree because of extensive testing and tracing.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Vuk
March 18, 2020 3:28 am

Uh-oh, by the end of March there will be more dead people than infected people. Logarithnic scales are not usefule here.

Vuk
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
March 18, 2020 5:23 am

Hi Robert
You got strange sense of humour, don’t you?
The left hand scale is for number of infected, right hand scale, one order of magnitude smaller values, is number of dead.
All the best to you and your family and I do hope that most of us get through this crisis in good health.
have another look
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/UK-COVID-19.htm

Bulldust
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
March 18, 2020 5:52 pm

And that Robert, is how the zombie apocalypse happens.

AARGH63
Reply to  Nick Graves
March 17, 2020 9:20 am

Re-open the bars immediately!

Jason A Kolakowski
Reply to  AARGH63
March 18, 2020 10:29 pm

Right? I work for a K-8 charter school that was already scheduled for spring break. My buddy and I worked Monday and Tuesday disinfecting a building that is going to be empty for weeks- so disinfecting isn’t even necessary, since everything will die within days anyway.
Anywhoos, we were gonna stop and play a game of pool or two, since we’ve been talking trash for years but never actually played each other. We were both tired, and decided to play pool the next day. That night, Gov Polis ordered all bars closed. Such BS. I need to humiliate my buddy with mad pool skills, or, even better, find an equal opponent. Sigh.

yarpos
Reply to  Nick Graves
March 17, 2020 2:12 pm

only in groups of one or more and only to excess

especially now I can rationalize the hell out of it

Lorne
Reply to  Nick Graves
March 18, 2020 8:22 am

I’m converted!

Tim Spence
Reply to  Nick Graves
March 19, 2020 4:09 am

Gin and Tonic? Sure, when I run out of Whisky.

Ricard
March 17, 2020 6:21 am

GIN AND TONICS ALL AROUND!!

RobR
Reply to  Ricard
March 17, 2020 7:06 am

Yes! We can all do with a bit of good news. Thanks for posting this Anthony.

Julian Flood
Reply to  Ricard
March 17, 2020 10:19 am

That’s trebles…

JF

Prjindigo
Reply to  Ricard
March 17, 2020 11:38 am

aye, jynnan tonyx!

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Prjindigo
March 17, 2020 3:23 pm

There’s a frood who knows where his towel is!

Latitude
March 17, 2020 6:22 am

…and it’s a pill ++++++++++++

Bryan A
Reply to  Latitude
March 17, 2020 10:06 am

Quinine Tablets also available on Amazon

Reply to  Bryan A
March 18, 2020 8:46 pm

Cinchona bark – not quinine, quinidine (right rotated isomer of quinine), or chloroquine phosphate (the purified and more assimilable form).

From the descriptions (many of which are not written by native English speakers – sorry, but that is a red flag) – they range from 800mg to 1000mg bark per dose. Quinine / quinidine are about 16% of the bark, so that is ~130 to 160mg per tablet. Not close to the doses that are being studied, or what is in a commercial anti-malarial tablet (although far better than tonic water / syrup).

Taking three times the dose on the bottle – definitely not. There are several other alkaloids in the bark that are decidedly dangerous.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Writing Observer
March 19, 2020 9:22 am

Writing Observer: I commented above, too. You are incorrect on dosage. For Covid study in the optimum dosage( i.e. 90% of) in China tests was 6.9mg. Citing 500mg was for Rheumatoid A, simply to show human high toleration for the drug. Re-read that part!

March 17, 2020 6:24 am

Caramba!

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  chaamjamal
March 18, 2020 10:55 pm

LOL!

Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 6:31 am

Any side effects that would prevent its use as a preventative measure.

mark from the midwest
Reply to  Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 6:46 am

Yes, it’s cheap, effective, and widely available. Subsequently the medical community has no profit incentive

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  mark from the midwest
March 17, 2020 7:27 am

How do you know it is effective?
By what measure?
What data have you seen?
Not one word of data is to be found here.
Sure, it is safe.
This is not how reports of proven clinical efficacy read.

MikeP
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:11 am

Follow the link … all the data that’s fit to print …

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:57 am

Med Cram from one week ago gives a clear explanation of Chloroquine as an intracellular zinc inhibitor.

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 17, 2020 9:07 am

virus inhibitor

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 18, 2020 2:13 pm

In vitro.
I am also a little amazed the only word about safety is to say it is “safe”.
There is a long list of side effects, some of them severe, including retinal damage that may be severe and permanent, loss of hearing, loss of hair, nausea, diarrhea, stomach cramps, headache, muscle weakness, changes in hair and hair color and skin and skin color.
Those are among the longer list of “common” side effects.
Others include death in the case of accidental overdose, dangerous and possibly fatal low blood sugar, seizures, dizziness, tachycardia, confusion, hallucinations, severe skin reactions (the drug is contraindicated if you have psoriasis…about 2-3% of the population), and a whole bunch more.
This is a very odd list of side effects to write off as safe.
Of course, safe means something else for drugs meant to treat severe and deadly illness.
Chemo is considered safe if it does not kill too many people outright, and some people do not get too sick to keep taking it.
The dosage that puts a person at risk of severe retinal damage is said to be any amount > 2.3 mg/kg.
500 milligrams is over twice that for someone who weighs 220 pounds.
For someone who weights 110 pounds, it is over 4 times the danger amount for retinal damage.
I do not know how common “common” is. Sounds like lots of people take it.
It also sounds like one of the things that lots of people hate to take and it makes them very sick.
Plus…there is no clinical trial data.
I happen to be very aware of how many things will viruses and bacteria in vitro and in cells, and are completely useless for treating disease nonetheless.
If the CFR is 1%, you would need to give it to several hundred at least for one group vs a similar sized group vs placebo and randomly and double blindly given, in order to get even a tentative result that was statistically significant.
This appears to be based on a small sample size or less than 100 people and no compator.
Drug companies are not stupid, and they like to have things to sell, but in spite of that, 1 in 5000 drugs that seem to be great in the lab are ever approved by the FDA.
And it takes an average of 12 years and costs 3 billion dollars because anecdotal information, such as “we gave it to a bunch of people and they seemed to do better than some other people who did not get it”, is utterly worthless when determining if a drug has value.
I sincerely hope this is a wonder cure.
But even this report does not read like it was some miracle. Remdesivir sounds like that by most reports of people who have gotten it, and yet people who know what they are doing are very cautious to say much more than it appears to have some value.
Op top of that, anyone who thinks clinicians and doctors who have a country full of people on respirators and people are dying in the hallways, like is occurring in Italy due to lack of respirators, are surely aware of these reports, as is the CDC, and every health official in every country.
This is not written like a report of a drug which is being seriously studied…it reads like what we see in alt medicine journals.
If being published in Nature was the gold standard of research to take heed of, we had best all get ready for global incineration about 20 years ago.
We talk about the crap they publish here all the time, like the one Monckton of Brenchley is suing over.
This may have some value, or it may be unfit for purpose.
The attention being given this by the governments of every country in the world makes me doubly sure of what I thought when I first read it.
If this did not make your crapometer ring and alarm bell, you do not know enough about how drugs are studied.

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 18, 2020 11:22 pm

Nicholas,

My daughter sat down next to me at breakfast today and said, “The world is going crazy.” She’ll have to go back to her teaching job in China when the private school where she works, and the Chinese government, finally gets their protocols aligned. Till then, she’s dealing with her slightly spoiled private school kids online. I’m not worried that she has to go back.

We all must plead guilty to arguments from SOME authority – unless you’re doing your own independent research. In that case you’re the authority that we all must listen to — assuming you know how to carry out proper research and report on your findings. I’ll plead this authority, Dr. Roger Scheult, because I LIKE him. He’s clear, concise, accomplished, and he has mastered this medium of teaching and communication. I don’t doubt his science. I think you would approve of his bottom line: “We really need a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded type of study…” Till then he feels “cautious optimism”.

Your first critique was that the paper only shows effects of zinc on Coronavirus “in vitro”. It’s clear you did not listen to the whole video.

The FIRST of the FOUR studies Scheult presents is an abstract of a report from 10 years ago which shows how zinc inhibits coronavirus – and is very good at it. The fact that this was in a test-tube is significant, but he deals later with other studies done in humans.

The SECOND study, presented by Chinese and published in 2014 in a Creative Commons online proves that Chloroquine is a zinc ionophore. I’m not a biologist, but he explains to my satisfaction what this means for getting zinc into a cell’s nucleus where it will inhibit the virus’s replication. This and like studies show a similar result. The Chinese data is freely available.

The side effects of Chloroquine are well known. The fact that you can list them all, as well as cite dosages, indicates to me that its contraindications would be well-understood by every doctor in the U.S. Chloroquine is cheap and safe. Millions take the drug safely to prevent malaria. I don’t remember hearing any scary caveats when I was given a prescription to take on a four-week “safari” and climbing expedition in central Africa. (I didn’t need them – just brought the vial back)

Seheult’s THIRD paper is from the “Korean Biomedical Review” showing how their “Physicians Work(ed) out Treatment Guidelines for Coronavirus”, and it was dated Feb. 13 of 2020, before any significant cases of COVD-19 appeared and 16 days before the epidemic peaked at a reported 909 new cases per day. After that day new cases stair-stepped down just as quickly as they had climbed, and last Monday they reported only 74 new cases. The treatment regimen their doctors had prescribed was two chloroquine tablets per day (I don’t remember the dose).

We don’t know how many in Korea received this Chloroquine regimen, and we should have those details before beginning our own in the U.S. But this is the empirical “in vivo” evidence that you require. If WHO and CDC do their jobs, we’ll have that data to evaluate the Korea treatments properly. See Scheult’s extrapolation from mortality and severe cases at 14:30 to understand how successful Korea has been relative to other countries.

As of 3/16, it appeas their curve is flattening at 8,200 total cases, and unless they experience a second surge, it will follow the same flat trajectory seen in China.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/infection-trajectory-flattening-the-covid19-curve/

The FINAL paper is the Chinese “Expert Consensus on Chloroquine Phosphate for Treatment of Novel Coronavirus Pneumonia” out of Canton. It reports that there have been no ill effects from Chloroquine treatments. “Patients treated with Chloroquine demonstrated a better drop in fever, improvement of lung CT images, and required shorter time to recover compared to parallel groups.”

I hope you’re persuaded. I’ve written more on this thead in the last few days than in the last 20 years. The world really has gone a bit crazy.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 19, 2020 4:36 pm

Bill,
I do not much like double talk.
Or having words put in my mouth.
The direct effects on viral inhibition are in vitro cell culture studies.
I could give you a long list of antivirals that work perfectly in vitro and fail to help with viral clearance in human beings with an infection.
You said this:
“Your first critique was that the paper only shows effects of zinc on Coronavirus “in vitro”. ”
I did not say anything about zinc at all. Then you relate that he said exactly what I said, then put some more words in my mouth and then some double talk, like this:
“a report from 10 years ago which shows how zinc inhibits coronavirus – and is very good at it. The fact that this was in a test-tube is significant, but he deals later with other studies done in humans.”
So, once again, he confirmed what I said, and what everyone who knows what they are talking about has said, and then seemed to say I was wrong anyway because “he deals with this later”.
Huh?
Then your numbered list goes on and on. Your doctor gave you this medicine. OK, great.
You seemed to think that pointing out that “safe” is a relative concept was being pedantic? Is that it?
There are groups of people who will immediately be at risk of severe side effects if given this drug, like any of the 3% of people in the world with psoriasis. Have you ever had it? Do you know what psoriatic arthritis is? Do you know what psoriasis on fingernails and toenails does if someone that has that condition has a “severe” flare up, which chloroquine is known to cause? I will tell you: Psoriatic arthritis is a crippling and permanent condition, a degenerative disease in which the cartilage of the joints is eroded, sometimes permanently, and always progressively. A severe flare up can mean lifelong disability. The more common psoriasis vulgaris is merely incredibly uncomfortable, incurable, and can lead to people becoming so depressed about their appearance that they cannot go out in public. It can make it impossible to sleep. The drugs to control a flare up are expensive and may cause severe side effects of their own. Someone with mild psoriasis that winds up with a severe case has likely undergone a like changing event from which they can spend years attempting to find relief from, and often that relief is dangerous drugs that must be taken for a lifetime.
I will spare you the details of what it feels like to need injections underneath your fingernails and toenails every month for a few years, like what happens when one’s nails dissolve from an outbreak of psoriasis, and I will not post pictures either. I will just point out to you that it is very easy for someone to be ignorant and blithe when it comes to side effects they themselves never had.
There are others who must not take it.
I might be tempted to think your doctor knows you do not have psoriasis, or porphyria, or any of these other conditions which contraindicate this “safe” drug. Or should I assume your doctor never bothered to ask or check the list, or worry about it?
What percent of people are dying from this disease?
Most never get any symptoms.
Let’s say it is one percent fatal. Let’s say it is less than that for someone young.
What percent of people have one of these conditions, Bill?
glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency
porphyria
anemia
low levels of white blood cells
alcoholism
myasthenia gravis
a skeletal muscle disorder
maculopathy
changes in the visual field
hearing loss
liver problems
psoriasis
seizures
anemia from pyruvate kinase and G6PD deficiencies

Those are the people who are in real danger of some serious and possibly permanent harms from taking this “safe” drug.
This is the sort of thing the FDA knows, and doctors who prescribe this will know.
All of what you cited was just a rehash.
Treating people who are sick is different that handing out pills to people who are not.
The benefits are always weighed against the risk.
For someone with pneumonia or malaria, or going someplace with malaria mosquito, and outbreak of psoriasis may be no big deal. It happens to people who have it.
Giving it to hundreds of millions of people as a prophylactic is a different story.
In that case, one wants to know exactly what the incidence of side effects are, and how often they are severe.
It is strong enough that forgetting if you took it and taking another can be life threatening, at the 500mg dose for someone who is small. Children have died from taking less than 1000 mg.
Safe?
Sure, maybe.
Would you leave aspirin laying around if taking two of them would kill a kid, and you had kids in your house that needed to take them?

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 20, 2020 10:42 am

Nicholas,

Just listen to the video. His claims are modest. Yours are not.

Flu Cases: 32 million
Flu Hospitalizations: 310,000
Flu Deaths: 18,000 (125 children)
(CDC, Feb 22)

Last year there were more than 60,000 deaths from flu.

comment image

By comparison, so far this year:

COVD-19 Cases: 209,000
COVD-19 Deaths: 8,778

You’ve done yeoman’s work listing Chloroquine’s side effects. Others have done the work for the cost of Chloroquine. In all your banging on about your drug of choice, I haven’t seen you list any of Remdesivir’s side effects, let alone its cost. Why don’t you list those?

If there’s one lesson from this web site, it is that people love the idea of an apocalypse. Maybe because it allows them to sell something. No matter how exercised people are getting about the epidemic, 90% of those presenting themselves for tests are not infected with COVID-19, but with the flu.

And if you still feel that your humble honor and modest sensibilities have been offended, you can always dress up in your Valkyrie costume, turn up the Wagnerian opera loud and come swooping in to avenge yourself. Or you can just stuff it.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 29, 2020 5:55 pm

I have not said anything about the side effects because I have not found any reference to them.
My interest in the drug is based on the widespread view that it is the most promising drug available for usage anytime soon.
At this point though, it has to be considered that no news is bad news…for any of the treatments.
I do not favor it…I am hopeful.
But also skeptical…I have said right along that only clinical trial results can give information that is scientifically valid, and until a drug is validated by trials, it has to be regarded as experimental…because it is.
I have also pointed out that most drug candidates do not pass muster in clinical trials.
However, remdesivir showed about the same level of viral activity in vitro against a range of viruses, and additionally it has been shown to be safe and effective in treating animals with SARS and MERS.
That is more than can be said for anything else.
But note I have also been very careful to note, repeatedly, that “safe” has a different meaning when a drug is being used to treat a person who is sick and may die, especially when there is no other treatment available.
So far, nothing has been shown to be safe and effective against this virus.

I have written a lot about numerous aspects over the past few months, and honestly I cannot recall every word i have written, so you will have to remind me of what claims I made that were immodest?
I have tried very hard to find relevant info and pass it along.
Where I have added my own opinions, I have tried to be careful to say so.
I do not believe I have made any particular claims, except to pass along what I have found in literature and what my own experience has informed me over many years.
As for the cost…how would I say anything about it?
No info has been given by the manufacturer, except they have made statements to the effect that no decision on pricing has been made, for among other reasons because they themselves do not have completed data.
They say they will ensure affordability and wide access.
There has been a long and ongoing debate about the ethics of profiting from new drugs a company has invented and brought to market, and there is no point is getting into that here.
I will say that I am glad that there is at least one country in the world that allows a biotech or pharma company to make a profit.
Look at the number of new drugs invented by US companies, vs all the rest of the companies in the world.
No one disputes that it costs billions of dollar to develop and test and bring to market any new drug, and most of them fail and never make a nickel back.
Who is going to invest billions with no chance of making a similar sized profit if they are successful?
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
Tech companies make billions for stuff no one needs.
People that play pro sports make hundreds of millions a year to toss a ball around.
How much should we pay someone who invents a drug that cures a disease of saves thousands and sometimes millions of lives?
We could say zero…because it is unethical, and we might as a result kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
Or maybe people that do that work will just spend their time and money for the good of humanity.
Only…why do they not do that equally all over the world if that is the case?

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Bill Parsons
March 29, 2020 6:15 pm

Oh, BTW…nine days later:
COVID cases = 721,412
Covid deaths = 33,956

Deaths in the US have doubled in about two or three days.
New York alone now has:
59,648 cases
965 total deaths.
And this is only after everyone in the world has gone in de facto lockdown or virtual lockdown.
Where might those number be otherwise?
How many will there be in another month…considering the first US death was about a month ago.
The four countries that began using chloroquine over two weeks ago have death figures climbing by over a thousand a day.
Those same countries also list remdesivir as the treatment of choice for the sickest patients.
If those drugs are helping, it is hard to see it in the numbers so far…but maybe they would be twice as high otherwise.
Maybe not.
Let’s wait and see.
If I was going to bet on it, I would guess that nothing being tried is making a huge difference, except possibly in people who are not very sick and are not at much risk anyway.
I am trained as a scientist, and I keep that in mind whether I am talking about the weather, the climate, or a medicine or a disease.
Evidence is what I look at:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095632020601700505

mario lento
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 29, 2020 6:20 pm

I am very skeptical that we can figure out much based on the skewing of tests. Still in US we are being asked to only get tested if we are very sick or need medical attention… and I also know we are ramping out data counting based on this skewed measure. So the data will be difficult to draw conclusions on whether treatments are helping until we can get control tests or well documented test results.

I think we would not disagree on this!

PS: The mortality rate based on testing in US has gone way up in the past few days. That, to me, is partially the skew and that cities like NY are getting counts of very sick people in an overburdened health system there.

MarkW
Reply to  mark from the midwest
March 17, 2020 9:21 am

If this is against the interests of the medical community, how did the “medical community” let the information slip out?

Do you really believes that doctors and scienists world wide, are only in it for the money?

Ian W
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 12:12 pm

_The medical community in the West_ did not let this out, but it was easy to find on the internet.
As you will find in one of the studies the CDC was involved in the study. But STILL the CDC allow people to suffer and die, even with the ‘Right to Try’ act – crying crocodile tears at press briefings instead of supplying a drug that has been in use since 1945. Presumably bureaucrat is waiting for the correct forms in the right font from another bureaucrat.
You get the impression that they are not keen on stopping this pandemic for some reason.

Zack aa
Reply to  Ian W
March 17, 2020 4:01 pm

Ian W
Or possibly it’s already in use by the “medical community in the west” , and it’s not “news” at all? Or maybe it’s one of numerous treatment pathways just now being tried on ever larger numbers and without significant data to support one or another as a silver bullet the CDC is behaving responsibly?

My neighbor Occam is with you, it’s the evil worldwide mortician’s cabal and their snake obsessed hippocratean brethren.

Roy W. Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 12:14 pm

MarkW, just like in global warming, in the medical community there are people on both sides of the issue, and with differing vested interests. It would be difficult to hide a potential treatment that is already widely available and used by many people, especially in tropical countries.

William Astley
Reply to  Roy W. Spencer
March 18, 2020 4:42 pm

No Roy. The Medical Industry is in it for the money which explains why there are unbelievable gross errors in medical treatment.

A case in point was the discovery that most stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria by an Australian pathologist.

The standard treatment, prior to his discovery, for ulcers has drugs that did not work followed by surgery to cut the nerves to the stomach.

The medical industry did everything possible to try and stop the discovery, including legal action against the scientists. What changed the tide was a show on 60 minutes and some high level intervention at a political level.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2005/oct/03/research.highereducation

Steven Mosher
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 5:31 pm

“Do you really believes that doctors and scienists world wide, are only in it for the money?”

climate scientists agree

MarkW
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 17, 2020 6:32 pm

Since the climate science are pushing science that is disproven and the only one who benefits from their work is themselves, the case against climate scientists has been proven.

MarkW
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 17, 2020 6:34 pm

The really sad part is that steve actually believes that since most doctors aren’t crooks, this proves that all climate scientists aren’t crooks.

Then again, steve has never been able to handle even simple logic.

tsk tsk
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 17, 2020 8:56 pm

So do logical fallacies.

Fraizer
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 18, 2020 2:48 pm

I got news for ya. Most MDs ARE in it for the money. Even the ones that start off altruistic by the time they do school internship and often multiple residencies, they can end up pretty cynical in the end.

paul courtney
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 18, 2020 6:15 pm

Off topic AND trolling? A tough combination, Mr. M.
And Docs are NOT just in it for the money. They’re in it for the girls. Which doesn’t seem to apply to CliSci’s.

William Astley
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 18, 2020 6:20 pm

Steven,
Here is a better case, an entire field of medicine where the chemical treatment is worst than placebos and cause long term chemical brain damage.

What is more interesting is the standard medical treatment for depression prior to chemicals… was exercise, isolation, rest, which cured almost all of the depressed. ‘

The prior depressed people were interviewed, they said they felt good inside their bodies, wise, calm inside. They slept better. The body logically was a natural cure for depression which is a kind of transformation.

So it is worse than causing harm. It is hid good.

The general public’s beliefs concerning the mind and psychoactive drugs is primarily based urban legends, on industry created propaganda.

There are almost a hundred different books concerning the scandal. Whitaker’s book is one the best written.

https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing/dp/1491513217

Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America

“This plague of disabling mental illness has now spread to our children, too. In 1987, there were 16,200 children under eighteen years of age (William: In the US) who received an SSI (William: SSI social security disability insurance) payment because they were disabled by a serious mental illness.

But starting in 1990, the number of mentally ill children began to rise dramatically, and by the end of 2007, there were 561,569 such children on the SSI disability rolls.

In the short span of twenty years, the number of disabled mentally ill children rose thirty-five fold (William: and the prescriptions of psychoactive drugs to children has also risen by 35 times).
Mental illness is now the leading cause of disability in children, with the mentally ill group comprising 50 percent of the total number of children on the SSI rolls in 2007.”

Comment: The number of adults in the US on social disabled insurance for mental ‘illness’ has increased by a factor of 4 for the same period which roughly matches the increase in prescription of psychoactive drugs.

LdB
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 18, 2020 8:36 pm

It’s okay Mosher is safe he is taking his vitamin D which is scientifically proven and doesn’t need anything else 🙂

icisil
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 19, 2020 3:53 am

What’s going to be interesting, LdB, is if WuFlu begins to wane as the days begin to lengthen, as is what usually happens with flu.

Don132
Reply to  Steven Mosher
March 21, 2020 5:45 am

Well, I’m going to comment on the orientation of the medical community.

The medical community is composed of many well-meaning and good-intentioned individuals. However, since first setting foot in medical school they’ve been taught a paradigm of treating disease with pharmaceuticals, which, properly taken, are the fourth or sixth leading cause of death. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9555760 The reason for this orientation is that the drug companies have a great interest in selling drugs and have the lobbying and marketing power to fund new laboratories, endow chairs, fund educational programs, influence legislation etc., etc. The drug companies also have huge influence over the medical journals, which Richard Horton, MD., editor of the Lancet, called the “information-laundering” arm of the pharmaceutical industry. The criticisms of Marcia Angell, MD, former assistant editor of the NEJM, against the corrupting influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medical practice have been devastating, but largely ignored.

As readers of Climate, Etc., will know, I’ve pushed for considering vitamin C in treating COVID-19 as this has been used successfully to treat acute respiratory distress by Drs. Marik and Fowler in the US, by some European doctors, by Chinese doctors, and is a recommended treatment for COVID-19 by the Shanghai medical community and is being used by some other Chinese doctors outside of Shanghai to treat COVID-19. Vitamin C is also a remarkably safe ingredient; all of us have it in out bodies or else we’d be dead. You can take grams of it per day with no side effects: personal experience.

We’ve also heard of chloroquine, which acts as an ionophore for zinc to get inside of cells and destroy COVID-19, and that’s getting some news.

It makes sense that we should use vitamin C and chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, and keep track of what effect this is having and share the information, in a time of emergency and general panic and economic collapse. The risk is minimal, the reward is huge; seems like a no-brainer. What do we have to lose? We don’t have time for double-blind clinical trials right now, and the nay-sayers are being a bit too prudish in a time of crisis.

Here’s a good summary of the biology of vitamin C as a vasopressor and how it seems to work in mitigating septic shock and the reason that it’s being recommended for the treatment of COVID-19, aside from its widely-recognized antioxidant effects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA7obbfGg_o So, we know this isn’t voodoo science; it makes sense biologically. Think you’re going to hear about vitamin C on the evening news?

RockyRoad
Reply to  MarkW
March 19, 2020 1:19 pm

Doctors in Russia are primarily women because they care more (their men go into the military where the prestige and money are found).

Doctors in the US primarily are men and are interested in a 6-figure income–they treat their patients more like billable clients.

If you haven’t noticed it, then you are indeed blessed with an altruistic doctor, which I believe is the exception rather than the rule.

Steve Taylor
Reply to  Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 6:57 am

….insufficient gin reserves…..

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Steve Taylor
March 17, 2020 11:23 am

Should we have a national Strategic Ethanol Reserve?

Bryan A
Reply to  jorgekafkazar
March 17, 2020 2:27 pm

If you run out of Gin, Vodka-Tonic works well also and with a Float of Galliano it becomes a COVID WALLBANGER

Steven Fraser
Reply to  Bryan A
March 18, 2020 11:13 am

Add FIZZ to the end.. 19 letters.

Stuart Nachman
Reply to  Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 6:59 am

Apparently its current use, available since 1945, shows minimal adverse side effects.

Prjindigo
Reply to  Stuart Nachman
March 17, 2020 11:40 am

People who have adverse to Lovastatin/oyster mushrooms should be cautious tho.

(lovastatin is like 70% oyster mushroom) Both tonic and oyster shroom blow my heart rate through the roof… 145/m resting in blown aircon.

It’s kinda funny, but not too funny.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Stuart Nachman
March 18, 2020 2:22 pm

This drug has a long list of side effects and warnings, some of them severe.
Overdose is listed as being a medical emergency calling for immediate inducement of vomiting.
This stuff may be “safe” for someone with malaria to take, but it sure does not sound Safe.
Here, do not take my word for it:
“Tell your doctor or get medical help right away if you have any of the following signs or symptoms that may be related to a very bad side effect:

For all uses of chloroquine:

Signs of an allergic reaction, like rash; hives; itching; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin with or without fever; wheezing; tightness in the chest or throat; trouble breathing, swallowing, or talking; unusual hoarseness; or swelling of the mouth, face, lips, tongue, or throat.
Signs of liver problems like dark urine, feeling tired, not hungry, upset stomach or stomach pain, light-colored stools, throwing up, or yellow skin or eyes.
Signs of low blood sugar like dizziness, headache, feeling sleepy, feeling weak, shaking, a fast heartbeat, confusion, hunger, or sweating.
Trouble controlling body movements.
Restlessness.
Seizures.
Mood changes.
Change in how you act.
Not able to sleep.
Feeling confused.
Hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that are not there).
Change in hearing.
Ringing in ears.
Muscle pain or weakness.
A burning, numbness, or tingling feeling that is not normal.
Fever or chills.
Sore throat.
Any unexplained bruising or bleeding.
Feeling very tired or weak.
A very bad skin reaction (Stevens-Johnson syndrome/toxic epidermal necrolysis) may happen. It can cause very bad health problems that may not go away, and sometimes death. Get medical help right away if you have signs like red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin (with or without fever); red or irritated eyes; or sores in your mouth, throat, nose, or eyes.
Heart problems like heart failure and abnormal heartbeats have happened in people taking high doses of chloroquine for a long time. Sometimes, these have been deadly. Call your doctor right away if you have a fast or abnormal heartbeat; very bad dizziness or passing out; or shortness of breath, a big weight gain, or swelling in the arms or legs”
https://www.drugs.com/cdi/chloroquine.html

There are several side effects that are possible deadly or life threatening, and some others like blindness or hearing loss that do not sound very great.
Just sayin’
First do no harm.
Lots of things kill viruses in a glass dish.

GregK
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 19, 2020 12:22 am

% of people who take chloroquinine and suffer severe side effects ?

% of people with corona virus infection and suffer severe side effects [death]?

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  GregK
March 19, 2020 9:40 am

I do not know and I said as much.
I was adding to the simply worded description of the drug as “safe”.
It has a long list of side effects.
I said nothing about their incidence, and I also said numerous times that safe means different things in different contexts.
This stuff is too dangerous to give to people in organ failure, as the guidelines for the four European countries linked below shows.

huls
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 19, 2020 2:05 pm

This is what I get from work !

Utchka
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 20, 2020 12:16 am

I have to agree with Nicholas on this one. I’ve been doing technical writing for numerous pharmacies for 15+ years now, and while I’ve never taken chloroquine, I’ve written about it dozens of times. It absolutely does have serious—and potentially deadly—side effects. Sure most are not super-common (if taken as directed), but they do exist, and calling this medication ‘safe’ is a misnomer at best. Not saying don’t take it—just use appropriate caution, especially if self-medicating.

That said, it is unavailable in some locations. You should be able to find it online, though who knows how long it will be available there.

acementhead
Reply to  Utchka
March 20, 2020 1:27 am

General P. Malaise March 19, 2020 at 5:43 pm

I don’t think that chloroquinine is used that much any more. the side effects can be nasty and people in malaria countries don’t take anti-malaria medicine on a continuous basis as it will do more damage than the malaria does.

Did you not see the dose that is needed for covid-19 treatment? It is less than 2 percent of that which is used for Rheumatoid Arthritis. Maybe you didn’t know that the dose makes the poison? The probability of significant harmful effects in pretty much everybody must be near zero if there aren’t near universal and serious side effects in those taking a fifty times greater dose for years.

Jeff Bennion
Reply to  Utchka
March 23, 2020 1:36 pm

Better to say “well-understood safety profile” than “safe”. That is what I understand most people to be saying when they say it’s “safe”. Truly, no drug is safe in all circumstances and all dosages.

GregB
Reply to  Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 7:02 am

Depends how much gin you add.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 8:27 am

compared to Plaquenil which I was put on(another newer antimalarial used for rheumatoid arthritis)
didnt do much for the aches and nearly sent me blind
its an old/known/and safer med and would be able to be made as generic by now.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  ozspeaksup
March 17, 2020 9:09 am

just hunted my old med bottle out
plaquenils a brandname
it took about 7 days? for me to be unable to see clearly and start to have swelling in the face
on 2 200mg 2x a day
so for very short use to save a life might be worth the risk but otherwise, no way

Mike
Reply to  ozspeaksup
March 17, 2020 11:27 am

Not sure its related to your eyesight, but chloroquine and its metabolite hydroxychloroquine accumulate in pigmented tissues including the uveal tract of the eye. Half-life is many months.

tty
Reply to  Mike
March 17, 2020 2:12 pm

You have to take it for very long periods for it to affect vision, like several years.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Mike
March 17, 2020 5:11 pm

Mike
Half-life of many months may explain why my legs have been so slow to recover from a condition that only took a couple of months to present.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Mike
March 17, 2020 5:14 pm

tty
You said, “You have to take it for very long periods for it to affect vision, like several years.” Then why was my rheumatologist insisting on checking me annually?

tty
Reply to  Mike
March 18, 2020 5:08 am

I presume that some safety margin is in order. And the effect is progressive, so an annual check is completely in line with what I wrote.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Mike
March 18, 2020 2:25 pm

It may be that for most people, it takes a long time to have vision problems, but if you read through the safety literature on this drug, it may be “safe”, but it does not exactly sound Safe.

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  ozspeaksup
March 17, 2020 12:43 pm

https://www.verywellhealth.com/plaquenil-10-things-you-should-know-190228

Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) is considered an older DMARD (disease modifying anti-rheumatic drug). Plaquenil was actually first classified as an antimalarial drug, but it is also used to treat certain rheumatic and autoimmune conditions which are unrelated to malaria. Generally, Plaquenil is a treatment option as monotherapy (used alone) for mild rheumatoid arthritis or as combination …

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
March 19, 2020 4:43 pm

Kind of odd that it is a treatment for RH, but is known to cause severe outbreak of psoriasis in people with that condition.
Most medicines that help with one of those conditions have at least some benefit for those people with the other.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  ozspeaksup
March 19, 2020 7:33 pm

See: RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS,
By J. CHARLTON BRISCOE, M.D., F.R.C.P.,
The British Medical Journal, MARCH 11, 1911.

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/1/2619/544.full.pdf

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Norman Blanton
March 17, 2020 5:07 pm

I don’t know whether the phosphate has the same concerns, but the hydroxychloroquine sulfate has a number of know side effects and contraindications.

https://medicaments.tips/hydroxychloroquine-uses-dosage-how-to-take-side-effects-and-interactions/3/

I was prescribed the sulfate for osteoarthritis in my thumbs. The rheumatologist was most concerned about a possible change in my color vision. However, instead, I apparently did not tolerate it well and quickly saw an increase in my systolic blood pressure along with probable neurological damage involving the muscles in my legs. The known side effects are probably why it is only available by prescription.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
March 18, 2020 2:28 pm

Both have similar side effect profile, but I could not readily find out what the specific incidence of these side effects was.
But a bunch of bad sounding ones, were listed as “common side effects include”.
Others like blindness and death were listed as less common.
I have made this point whenever talking at length about antivirals and such.
Many things that are life savers are actually on the toxic side, but the conditions they treat are far worse, such that it is deemed a good risk by some.
But not for others.
A lot of people with Hep C destroying their liver were unable to take interferon and ribavirin, to give one example.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 18, 2020 2:31 pm

Unable and many others were unwilling after hearing about the side effects. Many doctors would not prescribe that regiment, telling patients with hep C to wait.
Eventually Pharmasset invented sofosbuvir, and Gilead bought them out and combined it with some other drugs to make a safe and nearly 100% effective cure for hep C.
Pegylated interferon alfa and ribavirin is a brutal regiment.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 18, 2020 2:37 pm

Between it being very obvious that sofosbuvir was a miracle drug, and it being avaialbe as a combination therapy drug that was an effective cure took many more years.
From 2007 to 2014, with people dying every day. More than die from this virus so far.
700,000 die every year from complications of hep c.
Billions in development.
In this time, dozens of drugs that appeared able to wipe out the hep C virus were put into clinical trials. Most were a bust, and they were only a small subset of the ones that killed the virus in vitro.
This story is repeated for every illness known.

Sunny
March 17, 2020 6:35 am

Its proven to work, yet the WHO, say nothing works, only the very expensive Remdesivir 😐 And that if we want a cure then normal people must give money towards research…

Chloroquine costs 10cents a tablet, Professor Didier Raoult the director of the Mediterranean Infection Institute in Marseille, has 40 years experience in the field of viruses and diseases….. He has taken chloroquine for long periods of time as he lived in africa…

Professor Didier Raoult from france, has already done clinical trials on chloroquine and he said In an 18-minute video recorded in front of his students in Marseille, Professor Raoult does not hide his satisfaction. In concrete terms, 24 patients suffering from the coronavirus have agreed to take Plaquenil, one of the trade names for chloroquine. Six days later, only 25% are still carrying the virus. While 90% of those who have not received this treatment are still positive

https://www.francebleu.fr/amp/infos/sante-sciences/coronavirus-le-traitement-a-la-chloroquine-a-marseille-serait-efficace-1584392554?__twitter_impression=true

And from another interview he said, “So, to not give chloroquine, you have to be stuffed”!

Even Belgium is using it on patients, koreas death rate dropped after using chloroquine and zinc, the american James Cai, was given chloroquine on chinese doctors advice, he got well after 4 days from the start of chloroquine…

https://www.levif.be/actualite/sante/coronavirus-une-molecule-vient-au-secours-des-patients-hospitalises/article-news-1265287.html

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Sunny
March 17, 2020 7:25 am

Proven to work?
Where are the numbers?
There is one standard of evidence regarding such treatments: Double blind clinical trials vs a placebo.
Most people survive the disease.
There is not one word of a scientific nature of any specific benefit to one single specific patient anywhere in this report.

Curious George
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:18 am

Unfortunately, science takes time. And clinical trials usually take lives.

EdB
Reply to  Curious George
March 17, 2020 9:23 am

A public health emergency calls for a change of rules. If this existing, cheap drug shows efficacy, then the public needs to know to buy it for prevention. Anything less is criminal, unless of course it has side effects which are worse.

MarkW
Reply to  EdB
March 17, 2020 2:12 pm

If everyone starts buying it, then there won’t be any available for those who actually need it.

Think toilet paper.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  EdB
March 18, 2020 2:39 pm

No one knows if it works without scientific data.
Or don’t you believe in evidence or science?
There is a very long list of things that are “said to work” but that are shown to be worthless in trials.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  EdB
March 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Ed B,
I am sure you have the best of intentions, and believe what you are suggesting emphatically.
I am also sure that when the stakes are very high, is exactly the wrong time to abandon everything known about how to determine if a treatment has value, and if so how much, and who it helps, who it does not, how much it helps, and any contrary info, like side effects, and clinically significant adverse events.
Medical interventions are very often life and death.
The history of what happens when people jump to unwarranted conclusions is tragic and shocking.
And the history of what happens when proper and due care is taken to find out what works best, so we have a standard of care that can serve as a baseline for improvement, is a long list of often very happy stories in the end.

Sunny
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:23 am

Nicholas McGinley

I am following reports and scientists on the use of chloroquine, even a sceptic doctor said chloroquine doesn’t work, but after a clinical trial, he has changed his tune and is now going to use it in his hospital, Pitié Salpêtrière. Which is one of the biggest in france…

https://www.urgence-france.com/2020/03/17/urgent-la-pitie-salpetriere-a-paris-passe-ses-patients-sous-chloroquine/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

” On Twitter, he returned to his position late last week, announcing that new data showed an effectiveness, and that the molecule was going to be used on patients with the new coronavirus at Pity Salpêtrière:“We are going to start treatment with plaquenil at our COVID + at La Pitié.

MarkW
Reply to  Sunny
March 17, 2020 9:23 am

How dare those doctors wait until after clinical trials to make up their minds.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Sunny
March 18, 2020 2:49 pm

Shown an effectiveness?
That is exactly what I am talking about.
How many live with this, vs remdesivir?
Remdesivir saved 13/to 1/2 of the people with Ebola, but the Regeneron monoclonal antibody saved 90%, so remdesivir was rated as “ineffective”.

Saying “even a skeptic doctor said” sounds like the kind of crap warmistas say, and we discount.
I am not a cloroquine skeptic.
I am an agnostic advising people to temper expectations based on anecdotal info.
Doctors with a hospital full of people on respirators are not the best judge of what does or does not have “effectiveness”.
Placebo has a strong effect in nearly every instance, which is why comparing to placebo is the gold standard.
People involved in care are poor judges of efficacy, which is why we need double blind clinical trials.
The “double” in double blind means the caregivers do not know who has been given real drug either.
This was proven to be necessary over many years of confounded results given by people unable, in spite of having the best intentions, of being able to discern what was in fact a real benefit and what was not.
So we do not give a bottle of pills to emergency room doctors, ask them to give it to some people, and tell us what they think, and call it a clinical trial.
This is called compassionate use, and the doctors reports is called “anecdotal”.
That is science.
That is the science of clinical trials in medicine…love it or hate it.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 18, 2020 2:50 pm

Remdesivir save 1/3 to 1/2 of the people it was given to with Ebola…
Sorry about typos.
I have a lot going on.

Latitude
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:54 am

“Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay. “

Killer Marmot
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 9:50 am

Little to lose and lots to gain makes the decision easy for medical authorities.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Killer Marmot
March 18, 2020 3:15 pm

Little to lose?
If other treatments save more people, what will b e lost by using something inferior is “lives”.
That is not nothing, that is everything.
Let me tell you something that many are not aware of: When several drugs are under investigation for the same illness, and one is shown to be obviously more effective than any of the others, all the trials are halted, the study is unmasked, and everyone getting placebo or one of the inferior drugs gets the stuff that works best.
Right now there is a long list of medications in trials, and I have not heard any being halted.
Considering the implosion of the world economy, anyone who thinks that there is some conspiracy that would lead doctors to sweep an effective treatment under the rug should get their head examined.
They should be ramping up production of all drugs in trial, given the stakes.
And the protocols should be written to be rigorous and strict, and the results examined very carefully, and then acted on quickly.
The reason so much time is taken for clinical trials is because of all the things that can go wrong or make people reach erroneous conclusions or ignore well known principles learned over many decades.

One trial in China, BTW, is a drug called thalidomide being tested vs Wuhan Flu.

See here:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=thalidomide&cond=coronavirus

There are at least 110 separate trials under way or listed by not started yet, for this illness.

Don132
Reply to  Killer Marmot
March 21, 2020 10:21 am

Nicholas McGinley: “Let me tell you something that many are not aware of: When several drugs are under investigation for the same illness, and one is shown to be obviously more effective than any of the others, all the trials are halted, the study is unmasked, and everyone getting placebo or one of the inferior drugs gets the stuff that works best.”

Wait a minute. In a double-bind placebo controlled trial, we don’t know what’s working until the study is over. That’s the point of double-blinding. If one trial is over and it’s clear that one treatment is vastly superior to the placebo or to other treatments, then yes, it’d make sense to halt the other trials and give patients the treatment that clearly works. But, we aren’t there.

Testing using thalidomide? The drug that caused serious birth defects when given to pregnant women? Seriously?

In times like this, it makes sense to use what works clinically, to keep track, to communicate, and try to figure out what’s working in a clinical setting. Clinical trials simply take too long and time is not what we have right now.

Roderick Montgomery
Reply to  Don132
March 21, 2020 7:53 pm

Actually, there are designs for studies that have interim evaluations, done by statisticians separate from the clinical investigators, so that a study that quickly develops overwhelming evidence in favor of (or against) a treatment can be terminated early.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2941608/

huls
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 19, 2020 2:28 pm

Analysis paralysis

MarkW
Reply to  Sunny
March 17, 2020 7:30 am

It’s a new study. Do you expect WHO to give out information before it’s known?

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 9:58 am

MarkW

Don’t over-estimate the WHO.

Sam
March 17, 2020 6:38 am

One should note tha Chloroquine has been proven ineffective as a Malaria Drug in some parts of the world. Another drug has replaced it in those areas. So if one is taking a malaria drug one should not assume it is effective for the virus as it may not be Chloroquine….

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Sam
March 17, 2020 8:30 am

Artemisin is the newest antimalrial from a variant of wormwood plant, cheap and effective being used widely in India and china
hmm
maybe thats why India especially is faringbetter
theyre using it for malria already?

Rick C PE
Reply to  Sam
March 17, 2020 9:53 am

Makes me wonder – is the infection rate in areas where malaria is common and many take quinine routinely lower? I’ve been surprised that India has had such a low infection rate so far. Could it be because malaria is common there?

Reply to  Sam
March 17, 2020 11:54 am

The malaria virus converted to be resistant, that’s why

tty
Reply to  Krishna Gans
March 17, 2020 2:09 pm

Malaria is not viral, it isn’t even bacterial. it is a trypanosome, an eukaryotic protozoan.

And yes, they (there are more than one species) have become resistant to chloroquine in many areas.

Incidentally I can vouch for the absence of dangerous side effects of chloroquine. I have used it for longish periods several times in malarial areas, and never noticed any side effects at all, though it is known to affect visual acuity when used long-term (=years).

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  tty
March 17, 2020 5:19 pm

tty
At best, you can vouch for it being safe with you. However, there is a reason for the long list of potential side-effects that is provided with the prescription. I have had the opposite experience.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  tty
March 18, 2020 3:18 pm

What Clyde said.
One person taking something means that that person knows how they personally are affected.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  tty
March 19, 2020 5:24 am

I have to disagree from personal experience I started seeing halos around lights in around 1 week
at week 2 I went to put my glasses on and they were feeling weird
my flesh on my face had swollen to around 1/4inch and my specs legs were pressing into my face
so yes my already poor eyesight might have been making me more susceptible however browsing pages last night on other patient reviews of that med others also reported similar in short timeframes as well. not a lot but its NOT uncommon if around 3 or 4 in 30+ mentioned it. others had bad leg pains etc some had gut issues.
would I take it again? hmm iffy as one reaction like that usually means dont try that again
Id bet remdesivir is expensive
and I havent looked at its adverse event profile yet but prob would considerit as preferable if forced to.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  tty
March 19, 2020 9:44 am

When the stakes are live and death, and two drugs provide benefit, and one is very very cheap and one is very very good, or even just somewhat better, which does a person choose?
When it is their own life or a loved one, I think few would say…use the cheap stuff.

Paul Martin
Reply to  tty
March 19, 2020 11:16 am

I have taken chloroquine on a number of occasions as a (New World) malaria preventative and as a treatment and/or preventative for giardia.

At the dosage for preventing malaria I found it gave me vivid, memorable dreams but had no obvious additional effects in the 14 days period.

At the (probably much higher) treatment dosage it bothered my sleep. A friend who was taking the same dose started to see oncoming cars in the head-on-collision part of a dark divided highway. After “dodging a few” she figured out they were not real; she was hallucinating them into the mix of safe-in-their-own-lane on-coming traffic. She had to park and call for a ride. And stop taking the drug.

So if I understand the dosage suggested for the current virus as being well under the 500mg/day for giardia treatment, I should not worry about this side-effect. If it is the higher end dosage, your mileage may vary.

It doesn't add up...
Reply to  Sam
March 17, 2020 12:59 pm

Indeed – when I first visited South Africa I was recommended to take Lariam as a prophylactic. Unfortunately that can have some rather unpleasant side effects, and I suffered from a couple of them. There is always a balance to be drawn between a drug’s powers and its side effects.

tty
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
March 18, 2020 5:14 am

Yes, Lariam has a rather bad reputation for side effects, including long-lasting psychoses. Personally I have never noticed anything worse than a slightly upset stomach, but I have seen a couple of fairly serious cases.

That is why it is recommended to start taking Lariam a week in advance, so as to be able to switch medication if necessary.

Sunny
March 17, 2020 6:41 am

Oh I forget these two papers… first link is the same paper elon musk posted on twitter, but the paper came out before musk made his comments..

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

Hal Hammond
March 17, 2020 6:42 am

In addition to banning the export of chloroquine, the UK is gearing up for a study sponsored by Oxford to test chloroquine prophylaxis among 10,000 healthcare workers. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04303507

Eliza
March 17, 2020 6:44 am

China is returning to normal as well. The West has completely overreacted I blame all the politicians left and right and media for basically destroying the lives of millions (ie retirees funds stock market, airlines ect). I wonder if media will report this cure bet they wont.

Sunny
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 7:09 am

Eliza

Image if the news media told the real figures.

There are, 7,794,798,739 people on this planet so far in 2020, 188 thousand have the virus, but over 80,873 have recovered, with 93,561 in mild condition, which isn’t looked upon as series, or needing treatment.. Italy’s average death rate is 81 😐

This site gives daily numbers…. Were I got the figures from…

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

jim hogg
Reply to  Sunny
March 17, 2020 8:22 am

Averaging Italy’s death rate paints a very distorted picture. . .

Editor
Reply to  Sunny
March 17, 2020 9:15 am

Is that 81 a long term death rate or the Covid-19 death rate since the first death/case/something?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/ notes 349 Covid-19 deaths yesterday (3/16). Recently their new cases have been growing exponentially 21% per day (it used to be 34%!) Given that it takes about two weeks for someone to die from Covid-19, recent cases may be dying at around 500/day in a couple weeks.

Ian W
Reply to  Ric Werme
March 17, 2020 12:26 pm

Unless someone gives them Chloroquine.

But of course it is more important that a full clinical trial with the right number of annexes in the right font is made available. Clinical evidence of efficacy is not valid unless recorded and counter signed and published in the correct annual journal.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Ian W
March 18, 2020 3:20 pm

They gave something to two dozen people. They all lived.
What is proven?
By the way, that is for IV vitamin C…which is in every store n the world.
Maybe we oughta find out for sure, and not let laypeople on the internet rewrite 100 years of accumulated knowledge of how to determine what is what.

MarkW
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 7:32 am

Assuming the new data from China is accurate, China is only returning to normal because they applied remedies that are much more extreme than the remedies that you are labeling as an over reaction.

Goldrider
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 9:44 am

Wonder if it’s the same method employed for UK hoof-and-mouth; as in, “all positives disappear.”
Usually burned, than bulldozered into ditches!

MarkW
Reply to  Goldrider
March 17, 2020 11:11 am

More like a complete lock down of everybody for 2 weeks.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
March 18, 2020 7:49 am

You were referring to what they did to the cattle. Now I get it.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Goldrider
March 18, 2020 3:23 pm

In the US, for about 150 years, sick animals and crops have been burned immediately and to the last one when a dangerous disease was found.
And that is one reason why for many decades the US has had the most productive agriculture and the safest place to raise herds of animals in the world.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 19, 2020 12:08 am

Burning diseased animals in open air isn’t always the best thing to do. Lets not talk about why the US needs imported Australian bee queens.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 19, 2020 9:47 am

That was very illuminating.
Thank you for the benefit of your knowledge.

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  MarkW
March 17, 2020 12:52 pm

It is not accurate. The numbers are about 10 times higher than claimed. Part of the problem was saying “confirmed cases” when there was many more unconfirmed cases.

mario lento
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
March 17, 2020 1:03 pm

I would like to hear from Steven Mosher on this. Do we have any information that would support the idea that the number of reported cases is quelled, and in what ways?

I have been saying that in the US the number of cases will go up both because reporting has been virtually non-existent, (no testing available, no wide area testing even as of today) – and it will in fact spread. Unfortunately, it is pretty straightforward to report deaths due to Covid 19, just not so easy to report what we are not measuring. This naturally leads to data that show a terribly inflated mortality rate.

Derg
Reply to  mario lento
March 17, 2020 7:56 pm

Bingo Mario. I feel there are many unreported cases. We will never know. They recovered.

mario lento
Reply to  Derg
March 17, 2020 10:37 pm

Derg: Thank you for acknowledging this. I hear very little about this, but a week or two ago, someone wrote an article about the “denominator” which is the term I used arguing with someone with a masters degree in engineering. His response was, unbelievably, that the denominator has nothing to do with mortality rate… then he went off into using another term, morbidity and how it was dangerous because of yadda, yadda. The level of intellectual blindness to cogent discourse is hard to believe!

MarkW
Reply to  mario lento
March 18, 2020 7:52 am

Eventually they will develop an anti-body test, and will be able to test for people who have had the disease. They will then be able to make pretty good estimates of what percentage of the population was infected and from that give good estimates of mortality.
In other words, in a year or two.

mario lento
Reply to  MarkW
March 18, 2020 9:54 am

The antibody test! Yes, I want to conclude whether or not I had it since it could only be deduced for me when I got it.
I want to do my part and increase the denominator!

comsic
Reply to  mario lento
March 18, 2020 2:07 pm

As far as the denominator angle it is certainly important to know so we can get accurate reading on how many get it, how many succumb and how many don’t. That is the only true way to measure mortality rate. But at this point we don’t know the denominator, plus the many that are currently affected we don’t know their ultimate outcome. So it’s a very fluid science determining the infectious rate and mortality rate.

mario lento
Reply to  comsic
March 18, 2020 2:19 pm

comsic: Agreed, and that we are starting to ramp up our testing, it is weighted towards people who are showing symptoms and are concerned. So people with minor or no symptoms will be counted at a much lower rate. As (or if) the testing becomes ubiquitous, the statistics will be somewhat more in favor of a reduced mortality rate. Now if I could only guess within an order of magnitude what it will really be… I feel “very” confident it will be 1% or less. If it ends up less than 0.1%, the panic will subside and we can get on with knowing that risk is always there, and as humans we cannot be paralyzed by fear. Think The Matrix…

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  mario lento
March 18, 2020 3:28 pm

Doubtful it will be 0.1 percent.
It will be lower for places that can bend the curve so that everyone who gets viral pneumonia has either a hospital bed or a ICU slot…IOW if everyone who gets sick gets the very best care that modern medicine can give them.
The death rate in Italy has risen in lockstep with the number of people who are in excess of available ICU beds.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  mario lento
March 18, 2020 3:32 pm

Plus, right now in the US hundreds of people and more every day are either in trials or getting compassionate use of remdesivir.
It do not know how many, but it was in the several hundred getting compassionate use in the US alone of remdesivir, and there are a large number of trials in which hundreds of others are getting it as part of a clinical trail protocol.
The news will be coming any time now.
Be patient.
Jumping to conclusions will cost lives.
If you are not sick now, it is well known how to not get sick.
Stay home, watch TV, yell at people on the interwebs, or study complicated subjects and educate some people

mario lento
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 18, 2020 10:15 pm

If you’re young and healthy, me thinks it’s not that bad. As deadly as driving a car or combined odds of all viruses? no. But time will tell.

cedarhill
Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
March 17, 2020 6:51 pm

Well, consider Influenza confirmed cases this season is about 220,000+/- with about 20,000+/-confirmed deaths. All other numbers claiming infections in the millions are merely from models/guesses/projections, some maybe even from Yogi Bear (RIP).
Which makes the flu’s death rate of confimed cases to be about 10%.

Compare that to the frightening numbers of the Wuhan virus. Remember, when comparing things one must always use the same base. Which is what those old sayings of apples and oranges is all about.

With the Wuhan, lots and lots of claims and comparisons are made and I’ve yet to see any that compare the same sets of numbers by classification. As in “confirmed” cases.

And, for another comparison, consider the Boomer effect. A truly huge demograph are entering their elder years making just number counting an exercise in deceit.

Then there’s the overall state of health in the West: the sickest batch of humans to ever trod the Earth. Obesity epidemic. Diabetes epidemic. Alzheimer epidemic. Age related macular degeneration epidemic. Cardio vascular epidemic. And the list goes on. Allhave dramatic negative impacts on the immune system which, in humans, have evolved to fight off the viruses we waller in every day. If this is a sample of how the West is going to behave, then …

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  cedarhill
March 18, 2020 3:41 pm

Number for influenza in the US are for pneumonia and influenza.
And they are estimates, per the CDC. They give a separate number every year for confirmed cases of flu.
It is a fraction of the number given in mortality stats.

CDC, estimated flu: over 30,000 in the US in 2017
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Confirmed deaths from flu, 6,515 in 2017″
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm

cxedarhill
Reply to  cedarhill
March 19, 2020 5:25 am

See CDC’s weekly influenza reports here (scroll down)
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

From that page:
144 children have died attributed to the flu but don’t state how they confirmed the deaths.
The numbers tested represent “confirmed” which means the 222,552 were confirmed cases and constituted 20.7% of the tests (1,075,130)
It’s not clear what death toll they used or how derived. They state 20,000 adults which likely is a guess or it could be 15,000 using their 7.1%.

Regardless, the confirmed cases and either of their death counts still would make the current flu deaths to Wuhan deaths still be the flu killing about twice as many people as the Wuhan.

Oh, and the only thing they lump together on the surveillance report are the total respiratory tests with the flu and pneumonia class including flu and 1/3 of the pneumonia cases caused by the flu. Which makes sense since flu only plus pneumonia caused by the flu are all flu caused. It would turn logic completely on it’s head to include pneumonia only embedded within flu + flu induced pneumonia.

And the issue, regardless of whether sloppy CDC (mixing in all pneumonia), why are they not using the same baseline (confirmed lab tested cases) since the death rates are similar or would show the Wuhan, so far, at worst is simply not very bad. Perhaps you can discern?

Phoenix44
Reply to  cedarhill
March 19, 2020 6:36 am

Death rates from flu are generally reckoned to be around 0.1%. And they are probably much lower than that as too many deaths are attributed to flu and too few people are counted as having been infected.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 7:34 am

I wonder if you have any idea of how to read a report and know what you just read?

Editor
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 9:24 am

Eliza,

China’s data, at least early data, is atrocious.

Given the debacle over testing in the US, I’d call it atrocious, but it’s a lot better than China’s.

I think the US hasn’t overreacted to the pandemic, but I’m confident Wall Street has. Unlike 2008, I actually have some cash to invest in a mutual fund that might be good for me. I bought some at $23/sh. It dropped to $20, so I bought more. Dollar cost averaging and all that.

Pandemics only last a couple months, maybe longer with significant social distancing, so I expect the stock market to roar back a lot sooner than the typical Wall Street over-reactor does.

Scissor
Reply to  Ric Werme
March 17, 2020 10:17 am

Perhaps if China hadn’t interrogated and threatened doctors and arrested reporters who began to sound alarm, the outbreak would have been contained.

Derg
Reply to  Scissor
March 18, 2020 2:26 am

Agreed Scissor. I am HIGHLY skeptical of any numbers or reports coming from China. That is an authoritarian regime that will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to stay in power. That includes killing.

MarkW
Reply to  Derg
March 18, 2020 7:56 am

In order to cover up the governments initial inept response, Xi has been making a big deal about how he now has everything under control.
It would be very embarrassing for him to have the official numbers contradict the new official story.

Dodgy Geezer
Reply to  Derg
March 20, 2020 4:03 am

“….I am HIGHLY skeptical of any numbers or reports coming from China. That is an authoritarian regime that will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to stay in power. That includes killing…..”

Remind me again how this differs from any Western government….

2hotel9
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer
March 21, 2020 8:15 am

Really? Got proof to back up your leftists stupidity? Thought not.

MarkW
Reply to  Ric Werme
March 17, 2020 11:14 am

The Spanish flu of 1918 lasted for two years.

WBWilson
Reply to  MarkW
March 19, 2020 1:54 pm

And in three waves, Mark. One the first winter, just like this one. The second was the biggest, beginning in the next fall. The third and smallest was the following winter.

MarkW
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 9:25 am

It doesn’t matter whether the media reports it. If it’s being spread within the medical community, that’s all that matters.

Pittzer
March 17, 2020 6:45 am

I’m guessing 100% of the world’s supply is made in a single plant in China.

Sunny
Reply to  Pittzer
March 17, 2020 7:11 am

Pittzer

Nope, the uk and usa produce it.. its very very cheap, with india staying even the poor can afford to buy chloroquine. Its a few rupees per tablet.

MarkW
Reply to  Sunny
March 17, 2020 9:26 am

I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Eliza
March 17, 2020 6:48 am
Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 7:33 am

“Could”.
Funny how a weasel word become veritable proof if it is something you want to believe in \with all your heart.

OweninGA
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 2:24 pm

The difference between this “could” and the CAGW “could” is the difference in spending a few cents a dose for a few days and destroying the world economy leading to the deaths of 4 or 5 billion people by design.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  OweninGA
March 18, 2020 3:45 pm

If that is the only difference you see, I hope you are not in charge on public health anywhere.
Just sayin.
IMO, could means could.
And this could is life and death.

TomRude
Reply to  Eliza
March 17, 2020 4:02 pm

Interesting because this Australian researcher does not register in the field at all… While Didier Raoult does, at the top of the field.
http://expertscape.com/ex/communicable+diseases%2C+emerging

commieBob
March 17, 2020 6:57 am

In a comment on the Diamond Princess story, Willis had this to say:

Me, I’ve taken a lot of chloroquine in my life … I’ve had malaria four times, and I’ve blocked malaria from developing when it started coming on another four or five times by taking three chlorquine “daily doses” each day for three days.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  commieBob
March 17, 2020 7:32 am

And malaria has what in common with a viral infection?

Citizen Smith
Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 17, 2020 8:49 am

Don’t forget to take your zinc supplements with it. This explains the process and studies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M

Zinc tabs were on back order a week ago at Amazon.

ozspeaksup
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 17, 2020 9:06 am

zinc works about as well as the riskier antivirals w/out the side effects, i always hit it when a cold/flu starts up

Bill Parsons
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 17, 2020 10:59 am

It appears from the MedCram video that zinc is the agent which actually inhibits the virus’ replication; the Chloroquine acts to open up the cell pathway, allowing zinc to get in.

Zinc not named in the two studies Anthony posted … so maybe Chloroquine is able to do the trick alone by some other means?

The South Koreans appear to have recommended Chloroquine regimens in all levels of infection by mid-February.

Anyone know if it’s being used in Italy?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 17, 2020 5:28 pm

ozspeaksup
My personal experience is that zinc gluconate works very well for aborting viral infections, if taken immediately for a couple of days.

Editor
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 17, 2020 10:44 pm

I bought some today at a local pharmacy.

chris
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 18, 2020 1:51 pm

that is a very irresponsible response. Rather than “referencing” a YouTube video, please reference a peer-reviewed study that shows that zinc blocks ACE2.

[disclosure: I spent 10 years doing R&D on detecting biological agent use by terrorist organizations. I’m not a toxicologist, but I worked with several world-class experts on the topic]

gringojay
Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 17, 2020 3:56 pm

This drug treatment is based on old knowledge. See (2005) “Chloroquine is a porent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection”; free full text on-line.

Synopsis of serving to stymie infection getting in & knock-out infection if got in = “… interfers with glucosylation of … [entry receptor] …. ACE2 … ” (virus uses ACE2 to get inside cell) …. And drug once “… inside cell becomes pronated … raising cellular endosome pH … [so] … virus can’t fuse …. [with endosome] … [and can’t] … replicate ….”

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 17, 2020 5:25 pm

And for some, albeit probably a minority, the patient doesn’t handle the pH change well either. It isn’t a cure all, even if it does work for most.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 18, 2020 3:48 pm

I read the studies Anthony.
I am well aware of the data on zinc, and have keeping up with it been since the 1980s.
If it turns out en existing drug could have prevented all of this, we will all have plenty of time to shake our heads about it.

March 17, 2020 7:07 am

Quinine is alao available in Butter Lemon,
But the formula is different: C20-H24-N2-O2
than mentioned above.

Reply to  Krishna Gans
March 17, 2020 7:54 am

Bitter Lemon has at least 2 variations, with Quinine Aroma or with extract. So look for the right one 😀

BobM
Reply to  Krishna Gans
March 19, 2020 4:12 pm

OH, NO! The carbon pollution (C20) is plainly unacceptable.

Harry Davidson
March 17, 2020 7:09 am

As has been pointed out elsewhere, if this is successful, why are so many Italians dying. That is a real question BTW.

Reply to  Harry Davidson
March 17, 2020 11:04 am

They drink beer and wine, not gin and tonic,

chris
Reply to  Leo Smith
March 18, 2020 1:54 pm

concur.

I think Russia’s experience – less than 100 cases, what’s up with that! – indicates that copious internal application of ethyl alcohol is called for.

🙂

Stevek
March 17, 2020 7:16 am

This is great news ! As researchers all around the world work on the virus, new drugs and treatment protocols will be developed to reduce mortality rate. People generally underestimate the power of research.

Another promising drug is Favilavir

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/17/c_138887971.htm

Tim Spence
March 17, 2020 7:21 am

If quinine is partially effetive then maybe they should trial ‘Artenam’ which is probably the most powerful treatment for Malaria.

Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 7:23 am

I do not see one single specific numerical or comparative analysis in this entire report.
It does not give any specific information whatsoever.
This in fact appears to be what is called “anecdotal” information.
It simply says this stuff works great, so use it.
I would not be getting very excited about this.
It reads the same as the reports saying vitamin C has been used and works great.

MikeP
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:16 am

if it reads like a bot … placed everywhere like a bot …

Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 7:31 am

It is bullshit like this that have caused people to run to Mexico to get treated with Laetrile for cancer.
This is not science, and it is surely not how anything is proven to be efficacious.
There is only one standard for such statements as “It works”: Double blind randomized clinical trials vs a placebo, analyzed by independent reviewers.
Listening to the people here reading this and concluding that they just read something significant makes me ill.
Sure, why think believe a drug that costs money and is in clinical trials is needed?
These reports say “It works”, so what more do we need?

rbabcock
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 17, 2020 8:39 am