By Rud Istvan
When ctm enabled the very first of my now several guest posts on this topic, it was partly because of my explicit analogies to climate change. As we delved further in subsequent posts, the climate analogies became less obvious. #6 was all about technical CoViD-19 antibody testing specificity and thrombosis, with no climate analogies at all. This #7 rumination returns to the original climate analogy theme, concerning the possible CoViD-19 therapy Ivermectin. (Much such stuff is now on various blogs, especially in Australia where it is a common anti-parasitic sheep dip.) I did some more basic research, which follows as #7.
Ivermectin is a semisynthetic derivative of a soil organism molecule originally found in Japan in 1981. So it is similar to many other ‘naturally occurring’ anti-somethings going back to Fleming’s penicillin blue mold in 1926, then its better semisynthetic derivative amoxicillin in 1972. Ivermectin is primarily an antiparasitic, and the original FDA approved indication was against African River Blindness in 1988. It has long been WHO classed as one of the three “wonder drugs” along with penicillin(s) and aspirin.
Old and off patent Ivermectin is now being toughted as a possible COVID-19 therapy. There are two adamantly irreconcilable sides, just as with climate change.
On the one side, Antiviral Research 178:104787 (2020) just published in vitro results that Ivermectin reduced Wohan coronavirus expression 5000x in 48 hours. Now that would be good news, since Ivermectin is another old generic drug with well-established safety profiles. BUT, no reason given as to why an old anti-parasitic (meaning against eukaryotic organisms) drug also has antiviral properties– just ‘is’ if to be believed. No replication study is yet available.
And on the same side, a newly ‘published’ Thailand study from 2014-2017 suggests Ivermectin has antiviral ‘nuclear transport inhibitory activity’. This would be encouraging, EXCEPT for the incontrovertible fact that Wuhan did NOT emerge until about 12/1019. So any virus, or just this virus? ‘Junk’ internet science is now on very public display. Like with climate science.
Does Ivermectin work against CoViD-19? We dunno yet. But the most recent ‘science’ at www.sciencedirect.org/antiviral research/faq/covid suggests maybe yes, it does, for reasons we dunno– while ONLY citing the Antiviral Research article cited above, so circular reasoning like in climate science is on full display.
Now on the other side, the FDA just issued a warning (see www. FDA.gov/product safety information/faq/covid) saying DO NOT use Ivermectin for CoVid-19—despite a decades long safety profile in humans and animals!
Now, that FDA false safety warning will surely discourage some properly designed clinical trials to sort out the truth. Just like the climate paleo hockey stick gang that got after Steve McIntyre, and then lost.
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So there is no evidence it does not defeat Covid19.
Did FDA say why to not to use it? Or are they just warning against it because it “might not” defeat Covid-19 and want to spare people from false hopes? Are they afraid people will go for that and abandon other things?
I often wonder about things like that. Lots of times doctors and med people will “tell” patients and the public to not do something, or to do something, but not give the reason. They pull the Appeal To Authority on themselves and when I drill down, I find some nanny-protectiveness at the heart of the thing, not a genuine danger.
A good example of this is the constant drumming that old people are at high risk, presented as an aboslute, as if age in and of itself is a factor. What they don’t say is that older people are at risk because in many/some/most elders, the immune system is weakened. Well, what if you are old, but strong like bull?
I am not convinced that a “weakened immune system” is necessarily the main issue. Deaths are from a cytokine storm created by an over-reaction of the immune system to the foreign material. Perhaps older people have more resistance response to this critter and young people do not. After all, older people have survived more seasonal coronaviruses.
Has anyone demonstrated that “boosting the immune response” creates better outcomes? Isn’t the problem the same as in 1918: over-reaction immune systems?
Nobody has discussed the idea that older people are most affected because they have a “better” (more) trained immune system. Young people, even after all these stupid vaccines, don’t have a so much over trained immunity.
Of course that would point to vaccination as a risk factor. The medical community would much prefer a discussion of non smoking as a risk factor than their unhealthy fetish, vaccination.
The elderly are susceptible to many infections with increasing age, not just those few that get immunized for. This has nothing to do with vaccinations, and everything to do with aging-dependent decreased capacity in tissue regeneration/ replicative capacity in cycling cells (cycling cells are those going through mitosis, i.e. not in G0). Most of our organs and tissues have stem-cell like progenitor cells that when called upon provide a cascade of daughter cells to repair and replace damage tissues and cells. It is primarily tissue-specific stem-cell like progenitors that replace dead cells in epithelial and endothelia barriers. As we age, the replicative capacity is steadily diminished, we heal slower from injury. Lung injuries are constantly occurring through life with infections, eventually stem-cell capacity to regenerate enough cells allows for compromised barriers. Infections set in. Inflammatory processes get elevated, and immune system is constantly fighting the pathogen because there are “holes and gaps” in the barriers that then let pathogens get in.
The immune system is constantly taxed, and it too then begins to diminish in replicative capacity, to produce various kinds of white blood cells. Eventually the host succumbs because tissues cannot be repaired and replaced fast enough to keep up, including immune cells. Those immune cells that are left (mostly innate neutrophils and moncytes repsond the only way the know how – inflammation. Eventually sepsis, pneumonia, set in. The aging host dies.
Thanks Joel. To sum, would you say that therefore it is a valid generalization that elders are at risk with few exceptions?
Not exactly how i understand it, but close. I found the affinity the corona virus has for ACE2 receptors was very productive in my search.
Kiran Krishnan, molecular biologist, explains very well what Ace2 receptors do in the body and how the presence of ACE2 receptors in the body and their relative abundance based on how it is even more abundant in parts of the body which are damaged, and how the corona virus hijacks that abundance in damaged areas in the body.
From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nue3zmEc9-s
“Coronavirus Update with Kiran Krishnan, Virology and Molecular Medicine Scientist
504 views
•Apr 1, 2020
“Join Dr. Tyna on the Pain-Free & Strong Podcast as she sits down with Kiran Krishnan, virology and molecular medicine expert & CSO of Microbiome Labs, to discuss how this virus works, how it binds, the ACE2 receptor, and why those with chronic inflammation may be at higher risk. “
Guys, it looks to me like the older persons have a tendency to accumulate co-morbidity factors, like obesity, untreated high blood pressure, diabitis, smoking damage, recent pneumonia, and excessive experience accumulation (OK, not that one). It appears to me that younger persons death from Covid-19 are also commonly associated with one or more co-morbidity factors. I’m 74 and in the robust category (utilized in the Reno 500 Heart-Diet Study, which I was a part of) and I do not have any co-morbidity factor. I think the quarantine guidelines should focus on co-morbidity factors and whether a particular culture supports social distancing and other preventive protocols, and not on age. Stay sane and safe.
Generalisations are never applicable to individuals, they are generally, not individually applicable. That is why they are called generalisations.
I was brought up with self-contradictory mantra “you should never generalise” but I know what they meant: you should never apply generalisations to individuals.
Ron sums it up well. They should be referring to exactly what they are saying are risk factors, not trying to simplistically use age as an indicator … which inevitably gets misinterpreted as being a causal factor the proof of which is stamped on your ID card.
Greg
April 27, 2020 at 5:25 am
Technically, the data there, actually very clearly and indisputably, confirm beyond any doubt like never before the most clear sharp medical Historical discover in human,history;
by the widest instant global spread medical response, in the consideration of the most wide spread experiment of global isolation of the world.
The excellent discovery, like put in stone for ever;
“The fatality or death rate is higher with the groups of:
a) Old age.
b) Chronic disease.
c) Underlining health condition.
and
d)Any combinations of “a” “b” ” c”.
The rediscovery of: “Water is wet”.
But this time scientifically confirmed and proved, beyond any doubt.
Definitely justifying any cost of any kind to any amount.
cheers
In old-age the Thymus gland has deteriorated (it starts in the early teens). It stops being able to produce T cells. Consequently, the old are subject to immune-system disorders, infections and cancers.
Not to mention that the elderly are also frequently deficient in Zinc and Vitamin D.
“The elderly are susceptible to many infections with increasing age, not just those few that get immunized for”
Yes.
But it didn’t seem to me Brett Crozier was at the head of a retirement home. Why are people in the military so susceptible?
For sure, the original SARS, when nice, ferret, chimps were treated with a vaccine and then “re-challenged” with SARS, many had horrible over the top immune response of the body attacking themselves.
https://www.nukepro.net/2020/04/this-is-sars-vaccine-for-sars-1-was.html
The moral of the story…..there will NOT be a safe enough vaccine for SARS-2
And the only way out is through herd immunity. We must open up now and get herd immunity, or this SARS will hold us hostage for maybe 2 years. We need to be bold and brave and face this head on.
That’s the way I react to the flu vaccine. I’ll get sick 2-3 times a season and ended up in the hospital one year. It’s no fun being sick for 2-3 months of every winter. I finally stopped getting the flu vaccine – and stopped getting sick every season. I know now I’m not alone – it happens to other people. I won’t be getting any COVID vaccine, should they come out with one. These viruses are simply not stable enough to come up with vaccines for. The flu vaccine is only 60% effective at its best. It morphs too fast to come up with a real vaccine for it.
Would agree, this COVID19 possesses HIV/AIDS – 4 different strains within the S-spike, including gp-41 protein and Amino acid alterations which both increase infectious capability….may stay a while in the blood stream allowing repeated recurring infection…
This virus contains human gene segments which most likely have never been seen in such combination before….
No one knows how the body will react to this one…thank you China…
Hasn’t the study claiming incorporation of HIV genetics in SARS-CoV-2 been withdrawn?
Is it even possible for this RNA virus to contain human gene segments?
Yes, it was withdrawn.
Human genes, ie protein-coding sequences, are encoded by double-stranded DNA, so, no they can’t be inserted into single-stranded riboviral RNA.
The ribose sugar in RNA has the oxygen molecule which DNA lacks. RNA also uses the nucleobase uracil instead of its methylated form thymine. The other three bases are the same.
The HIV AIDS is a disease.
The problem with it is that it ever persist with it’s own cycles, that are not within any condition of suppression.
Considering it in a simple way the main problem is;
it being a constant chronic disease,
where the immune system functions in overload constantly, as it has to continually constantly produce both,
the virus and the antibody in considerable quantity.
cheers
Over reactive immune system response as a detriment is well known, especially with lung centered infections. The over reaction can create excess fluid to accumulate in the lungs creating a severe pneumonia condition. It is ironic that my Rheumy and I were discussing this in a general way back at my Jan 2 visit. My dilemma now is whether I should continue my immune suppressant medication or not. Do I stop and risk an over reaction or do I continue and risk an under reaction? To add to the dilemma, I use the VA and this doctor has retired without a replacement. Being over 65 and positive for latent TB, I have been going with no medication since Feb. I just had my annual chest x-ray and lung eval and those showed no changes. So far so good.
trial i n 4k hospital staff using the BCG vax that boosts immune responses is underway in Aus presently
again older off patent and still used but only for kids in poor nations now
once it was used in all kids as a standard vax. has a LOT of uses and is known to be a flu preventative
but modern fluvax earns em more money every yr…
Men are generally stronger than women. Men are at greater risk from this coronavirus.
actually no- male babies die more often and women live longer than men on the avg
it seems to be the XX saving women
or so its been posited by those who looked at the whys
Men really are at greater risk to get a serious or fatal Covid-19, a well-known fact. There is a perfect explanation for that, something Rud Istvan might consider as a future topic in this series.
SARS-CoV-2 uses spike protein to gain entry via ACE2 into human cells. However, this needs a priming or activation by a host cell transmembrane protease serine 2 (TMPRSS2). Transscription of the TMPRSS2 gene needs androgen receptor activity, no other TMPRSS2 gene activator is known. So, presence of male sex hormones in some quantity may be one of the important factors. In the market there is an old protease inhibitor, camostat mesylate, capable of inhibiting TMPRSS2 activity. Studies in Covid-19 are ongoing.
windlord,
The FDA has stated do not us Ivermectin intended for animals as a possible treatment for humans.
It says nothing about not using human grade Ivermectin. If I had to guess I would say that medicines
intended for animals are probably less pure than medicines intended for humans and thus would have a greater risk of unwanted sideeffects. It does not say not to use Ivermectin but rather says to
a) only use Ivermectin intended for humans
b) use caution and not to self-medicate.
This is not a “fake safety warning” but common sense.
Thanks Izaak. I should have looked that up myself. Maybe the author should have included it also.
No, they specifically say to not use Ivermectin – any kind – for CoViD-19 treatment or prevention. It has not been granted a compassionate use exemption, so any MD that prescribes it (the human formulation) will lose their prescribing license.
It does also say to not use any formulation intended for animal use. Which is not a purity issue – the dosages and carrier are designed for that animal. (The carrier determines the release rate.)
“Compassionate use” is an exemption for the use of a medicine that is not approved for anything.
Ivermectin is approved for human disease conditions. When it is applied for a different disease condition other than those listed by the FDA it is called “off-label use”. You will recall this term being used when it came to the successful use chloroquine in China, Korea and France (not to mention hydroxychloroquine in NYC) as reported in the Nature publication in early March. It was written by James M Today, and Gregory J Rigano.
Page 6 “As of February 26, 2020, the UK government has added chloroquine to the list of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK.”
P6 “In early February, Changqing Kangle Pharmaceutical was requested by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology to promptly increase the manufacturing and production of the active pharmaceutical ingredients chloroquine phosphate despite slowed production during the Chinese New Year.”
How long does it take the somnolent UK to ban the export of a medicine? It means the Chinese, Brits and who knows who else were aware by early February that there was an effective treatment available using a cheap drug already on the shelf. It had already been demonstrated to be effective at standard dosage (1-10 microMoles chloroquine). For malaria it is 1.6-12.5 uM by tablets or intravenous drip. It had been known for years that chloroquine was effective against SARS-1 including DOI:10.1186 / 1743-422X-2-69, Vincent MJ et al, US CDC, Biology Journal, 2005, 2.
For the CDC to come out saying “this is anecdotal” is extraordinary. Trump could have cited the CDC’s own published articles. The similarity of SARS-Cov-1 and -2 was already in print by 4 Feb on Sciencealert (Aylin Woodward article) which cites Ian Jones from Reading, UK.
It notes it spread from a seafood market (not a “wet market” for land animals) in Wuhan, implying it was a cluster, not a source.
Note that the 4 Feb article cites two articles published on 3 Feb showing the two SARS-Cov strains were very similar, hence the interest in drugs already proven to be helpful. It took the UK 3 weeks to organise an export ban.
The statements by the CDC are particularly odd in these circumstances. They should read more.
“Age-related regression of the thymus is associated with a decline in naïve T cell output. This is thought to contribute to the reduction in T cell diversity seen in older individuals and linked with increased susceptibility to infection, autoimmune disease, and cancer” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3791471/
More complex…. parallel exporting, and “hoarding” (plus sale restrictions over the counter)
Auto-correct error in the reference above:
All research from this section is from: US CDC, Vincent MJ , Bergeron E , Benjannet S , et al. Chloroquine IS A potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus Infection and Spread of[J]. Virology Journal, 2005, 2 (.1):69. The DOI: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69
Not “Biology Journal”
Virol J. 2005; 2: 69.
Published online 2005 Aug 22. doi: 10.1186/1743-422X-2-69
PMCID: PMC1232869
PMID: 16115318
Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
Martin J Vincent,1 Eric Bergeron,2 Suzanne Benjannet,2 Bobbie R Erickson,1 Pierre E Rollin,1 Thomas G Ksiazek,1 Nabil G Seidah,2 and Stuart T Nicholcorresponding author1
Author information Article notes Copyright and License information Disclaimer
Background
Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is caused by a newly discovered coronavirus (SARS-CoV). No effective prophylactic or post-exposure therapy is currently available.
Results
We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations.
Conclusion
Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds.
Electronic supplementary material
The online version of this article (doi:10.1186/1743-422X-2-69) contains supplementary material, which is available to authorized users.
Some good references and analysis of chloroquinine studies,
https://www.randombio.com/covid19.html
That study, from Vincent et al, is an in vitro effect on monkey cells.
This is nothing like being known to be a safe and effective treatment for humans with an illness.
In live mice it failed to slow viral replication.
Along with a bunch of other compounds which killed the SARS virus in vitro only.
It is not proving to be efficacious in humans with COVID, based on a growing list of preliminary indications.
Putting a halt in shipments does not prove a drug works, or that anyone knows it works, only that it might, or that it is possible, which is more than enough reason to not ship the supply out of a country.
And ascwell, CQ is being actively disowned by early advocates in favor of the less toxic HCQ.
Many are saying without zinc any trials are designed to fail.
The story of CQ…I mean HCQ…I mean zinc ionophores…I mean only with early treatment and with both plus an antibiotic… is rapidly evolving. Only the steadfast non evidenced advocacy is not.
I really do apologize for the snark, calling an in vitro result a proven cure is strongly akin to claiming that CO2 is known to cause the Earth to heat up because it is known to absorb certain wavelengths of photons.s
A tiny fraction of 1% of drugs that have an effect on vitro have that same effect in humans.
They’re always using drugs off label. Black box labeled antipsychotics on the elderly in particular. For delirium, not psychoses, too. Delirium may seem like psychoses, but it’s not the same thing, and when an elderly patient is very ill, adding antipsychotics is an added burden on their liver and kidneys – but that’s what they did to my mother who had a kidney infection – and it scared the living daylights out of me. If COVID doesn’t kill us, the psychiatrists will….
standard dose of ivomec for anything from a chicken to a guineapig or dog etc is 1ml per 10kg bodyweight
the amt of ingredient per 100ml is clearly stated on the packs
the sheep variant is prob the best option cattle dose is stronger mix.
small dermally applied doses is at worst not going to work for covid but have you scabies n worm free;-)
From the horse’s mouth:
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/fda-letter-stakeholders-do-not-use-ivermectin-intended-animals-treatment-covid-19-humans
Summary – do not self-medicate with drugs intended for animals. Use ivermectin under a physician’s care and don’t use the stuff out in the barn.
The UK’s Covid-19 latest update:
http://www.vukcevic.co.uk/UK-COVID-19.htm
“Age-related regression of the thymus is associated with a decline in naïve T cell output. This is thought to contribute to the reduction in T cell diversity seen in older individuals and linked with increased susceptibility to infection, autoimmune disease, and cancer” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3791471/
Strong like bull not good enough.
Must be like Russian peasant: Strong, like bull, smart, like tractor.
The phrase is interesting. It sounds like a Russian idiom I have heard before.
I love the tin-foil hat brigade.
The reason Ivermectin is not FDA approved is simple the required dose for covid19 use is 100 times the historical dose use and 10 times higher than ever tested in any human. It isn’t safe you need to work that sort of dose from the ground up starting again in animals.
where did you get that?
your usa drug is as follows
Ivermectin dosage guidelines based on body weight:
15 to 24 kg: 3 mg orally one time
25 to 35 kg: 6 mg orally one time
36 to 50 kg: 9 mg orally one time
51 to 65 kg: 12 mg orally one time
66 to 79 kg: 15 mg orally one time
80 kg or more: 0.2 mg/kg orally one time
from here
https://www.scabieshomeremedies.com/ivermectin-for-humans-scabies/
3mg would be around 3ml liquid
so on the low side but still works
then from here
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200407/parasite-drug-shows-early-promise-against-covid-19
The drug is “safe at relatively high doses, widely available, and relatively cheap, too,”
th ONLY real issue is in people with liver function problems it appears
My brother once accidentally hugely ODed on Ivermec without consequence.
I love “the required dose” of a banned substance.
your FDA is as warped and twisted a setup as can be imagined
our aussie version the TGA is less venal/mercenary, but about as stupid
Ivermectin is already approved in usa as a scabies med at a stupid price for pills doc scripted only
in Aus its sold at chemists OTC as a wormer for kids
its used widely for scabies in Aboriginal populations, and seems to have a bonus of knocking the bugs causing ear infections off as well(from memory on that)
if you dont want to ingest it you can simply apply dermally(as in backline practice for sheep cows etc)
couple of ml rubbed in weekly should be about right for most humans
The argument that “we don’t know how it works and it is therefore suspect is completely specious. Get a copy of The Physician’s Desk Reference, the doctor’s bible on medications in the U.S. Pharmacopoeia. Pick a drug at random, then scroll down to the part where it describes the mechanism by which it does what it does. Nine times out of ten, the entry will begin with a mealy mouth “The mechanism by which X does this is not well understood.” In many cases, the PDR will flat out admit that we have no idea how or why it works. Aspirin was in this category until about 1971, despite being in use for thousands of years.
I will put my tin foil hat on for the moment. Have you noticed that any drug that does not have a patent on seem to be on the FDA your should not us list. It looks to me the FDA is more interested in keeping drug companies profits up rather than helping people.
There’s no money in testing off patent drugs for new diseases. It costs a lot of money to get a drug approved for a new disease. This money can’t be recouped, so nobody does it.
No conspiracy needed.
Strong like a bull?? Dunno – but I can’t recall ever having “the flu” and I’m now at age 88 !!
Had the occasional cold every five or ten years and even a brief bout of Pneumonia about 50 years ago.
Maybe this is what they call “Strength in the Herd”. Can’t recall my parents suffering much from colds.
Perhaps Flu research should be looking at genetics.
I have 3 packages of Ivermectin in my cabinet, in the form of monthly-given chewable treats for my dog’s as heartworm preventative. The Ivermectin treats (brandname- Heartgard Plus because it also has another anti-worming drug) actually don’t “prevent heartworm” per se.
Well the first thing I did when ivermectin was mentioned as a Covid-19 therapies was to go refresh something I’d probably learned 2 decades ago in microbiology, but forgotten about Ivermection’s mode of action against helminths and insect parasites like Lice.
So Ivermectin kills the little buggars, and not vertebrates (animals with a backbone), before immature heartworm larvae can mature and hurt my dog should they have become infected in the previous 30 days from a mosquito bite. It does this by paralyzing their tiny little insect muscles by interfering with signal transduction at synapses, a nerve agent IOW.
But Ivermectin has a pretty good safety record with human use. That’s because Ivermectin has a very low binding affinity to glutamate-gated ions Cl- ion channels of vertebrates. Because this, I agree with the FDA that there is nothing to indicate a mode of action for efficacy against a viral infection It could be there, but the likely dosing of Ivermectin to see any significant effects vs a cornoa virus in vivo would probably have to be be above the established safe dosing in humans.
Maybe, one has to take some kind of penicillin, if going to stay in hospital, and need some kind of penicillin which is effective in some particular hospital or you could get some kind of hospital disease, ie:
“In the United States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated roughly 1.7 million hospital-associated infections, from all types of microorganisms, including bacteria and fungi combined, cause or contribute to 99,000 deaths each year.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital-acquired_infection
If you’re going in hospital for an elective procedure, the best prophylaxis you can do is brush and floss your teeth very well for two weeks prior and then rinse with hydrogen peroxide each night for 3 or 4 nights before bed prior to admittance for your procedure. Our gums thus periodontal disease are key pathways for opportunistic bacteria to get to the bloodstream and then get to your new knee joint or hip joint etc and settle in and make your life hell with then strong antibiotics needed to fight the bastards that came in through your gums.
Keep your gums healthy. It’ll reduce a lot of systemic inflammation caused by bacteria steadily leaking into your circulation throughout your life.
Our bodies are awash with all kinds of things. Even mites that live in the follicles of our eyelashes.
Good advice, my wife runs a dental office and we are well aware of this but most people are not. Many patients with heart issues and joint replacements must pre-med prior to dental work being done for that exact reason.
Normally I don’t like to link to this guy because he frequently rambles all over the place and sometimes jumps to conclusions, but he does provide some very good links to research. He claims ivermectin potentiates the transport of ATP into extracellular space via P2x4 receptors:
Anti-Parasitic Agent (Ivermectin) Abolishes Coronavirus Particles
https://knowledgeofhealth.com/anti-parasitic-agent-ivermectin-abolishes-coronavirus-particles/
In that article he links to a study that showed ginsenosides in red ginseng have the same effect.
Ginsenosides Act As Positive Modulators of P2X4 Receptors
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6334005/
Must watch video about NYC.
Youtube already censored, watch here while you can
https://gulagbound.com/60053/murder-nyc-covid-19-patients-left-to-rot-and-die-in-hospitals-sara-np/
Meant facebook already censored
After watching the nurse TicToc videos and reading the MD’s comment below, what’s said in your link doesn’t surprise me a bit. There are some really noble doctors out there, but there’s no doubt in my mind that there are also some who would rather let patients die than go off protocol or increase risk of infection.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1250037261024059394
It’s credible and at least partly would explain why outcomes in NYC are so bad.
*touted, not toughted.
Yup. My late night bad.
Which part of “ demonstrated to limit infection by RNA viruses” ……….“with this broad spectrum activity believed to be due to the reliance by many different RNA viruses on IMPα/β1 during infection (Caly et al., 2012; Jans et al., 2019).” allows you to dismiss this work with “ just ‘is’ if to be believed.” ? Also how does a incomplete citation of the Thailand studies done in 2014-2017 and the fact that the Wuhan virus emerged only in 12/1019 (presumably 12/2019 but ?) provide any basis to challenge the findings of the article in question? Especially as they cite reports that “SARS-CoV proteins have revealed a potential role for IMPα/β1” as SARS-CoV and COVID-19 have been shown to be closely related corona viruses, though I suppose if you failed to note the potential mechanism cited earlier, it being repeated likely made no impression.
This article is clearly mistaken in its details and its judgements!CMT where are you ?
If you are going to argue technical details, then you need to get basic details correct. COVID-19 is the disease. The virus that causes this disease is SARS-CoV-2.
In fact I wasn’t arguing technical details. I was arguing that the criticisms proffered ,”we dunno”etc were inapt as the paper detailed their rationale as noted in the quoted details. And a quibble regarding the name of the disease and virus causing it refutes my contention that Istvan’s analysis /conclusion “‘Junk’ internet science is now on very public display.” is sadly/ badly misguided how?
can’t wait to see if people will be just as keen to discuss every facet of the next coronavirus and the next and the next…while we lockdown the world’s economies, of course.
AUDIO: 13m02s: 26 Apr: 3AW Australia: Luke Grant: “Effects of the lockdown are worse than the virus”: The real dangers of COVID-19 could still be ahead of us
Is it really better to be safe than sorry? A leading UK pathology professor warns us that the ramifications of a country going into lockdown could cause more damage than Coronavirus.
Professor John Lee is a writer for the UK Spectator, a retired professor of pathology and a former NHS consultant and he joined Luke Grant on Australia Overnight to give some perspective on the further reaching effects of COVID-19.
“The trouble with it is that they (government) have erred on the side of better ‘safe than sorry’… it’s a general principle of medicine, that when you’re giving a treatment to people, first do no harm.”
Professor Lee shines light on the fact that nations have overestimated the dangers of, and underestimated the danger of a population going into lockdown.
“The lockdown has side effects. From the economic side effects, from direct health side effects… people aren’t accessing health care, to health problems that were storing up for the future like people not coming in for their cancer screenings, not presenting themselves early enough when they have got chest pains for heart attacks.”
Professor Lee also touches on the murky origins of Coronavirus and if we may ever have a cure for the deadly disease.
https://www.3aw.com.au/podcast/effects-of-the-lockdown-are-worse-than-the-virus-the-real-dangers-of-covid-19-could-still-be-ahead-of-us/
“pat April 27, 2020 at 12:44 am
Professor John Lee is a writer for the UK Spectator, a retired professor of pathology and a former NHS consultant…”
I, sort of, stopped reading there. NHS and “consultant” don’t mix, until after the bill is paid. The NHS started to become awash with “managers” and “consultants” in the 90’s. Little attention was given to actual health care. You may as well go talk to a pig farmer about your prolapsed navel!
A “consultant” in old-style British medical parlance is a senior medical doctor in a hospital setting with typically 10-15 years of frontline experience who has “served his time” and usually specialised in some medical topic. So please don’t dismiss a medical consultant- it’s NOT at all the same thing as a “management consultant”!
+10^99999
I reserve the right to add a few digits as it will be found that a strict lockdown (as applied in France, Italie, Spain, Germany, Norway, UK, etc. versus what Sweden did) had not had any significant effect on the SARS-COV2’s related deaths toll.
“I reserve the right to add a few digits as it will be found that a strict lockdown (as applied in France, Italie, Spain, Germany, Norway, UK, etc. versus what Sweden did) had not had any significant effect on the SARS-COV2’s related deaths toll.”
You know what? You couldn’t have said that back in January.
We did not know how deadly the Wuhan virus was when it first appeared, so criticizing actions that took place then with the knowledge we have now, is pointless. If the Wuhan virus killed 10 percent of those infected, you wouldn’t be complaining about a lockdown now, you would want it even tighter.
And if we get a new Corona virus in circulation, we better do the very same thing we did this time, until we know how dangerous it is. The good news is we will be much better prepared the next time, and shutdowns might not be necessary, or might be limited to a short duration, if we can get on top of the infection quickly, and we are setting up the infrastructure to do that now.
“Is it really better to be safe than sorry? A leading UK pathology professor warns us that the ramifications of a country going into lockdown could cause more damage than Coronavirus.”
Well, we are going to find that out pretty soon, aren’t we. Handwringing won’t get the economy started any faster.
Btw, Trump should continue to hold his Wuhan virus presentations every day because the American people want to see him and hear from him on this issue, but Trump should kick all the badgering reporters out of the room and not take any more questions from them during the presentation. The American people need facts not arguments between the partisan reporters and the president The reporters can submit their questions to the White House press office instead. And if the reporters don’t like it, they only have themselves and their partisan politics to blame for the move.
I may be misremembering but at the time of the Falklands War the UK Govt spokesman gave out the results of the skirmishes and the Brtish deaths in action without allowing any media questions.
I think that the PM , Mrs Thatcher , was all too aware that any setback would produce so many calls for rethink of strategy that surrender to the Argentinians would be inevitable.
The latter did indeed have considerabe initial and devastating success with Exocet missiles on the landing force and at that point one can imagine the BBC in particular submitting question after question about a policy of appeasement (ie surrender) to stop any further loss of life.
However the PM persisted with her policy and eventually the superior ability of our ground forces prevailed once beachheads had been established.
Perhaps Trump could learn from that example.
time to round up the scaremongerers –
Neil Ferguson, Faculty of Medicine, School of Public Health, Imperial College London, (510,000 Brits, 2.2m Americans could die);
Marc Lipsitch, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health (70% of global population could get infected, 2% could die, equals 109 million fatalities); and
Paul Kelly, ANU Medical School, Australia (150,000 Australians could die) – and hold them accountable for the economic lockdowns they inspired.
good old CAGW institutions all of them.
The problem with such drugs, in particular hydroxyquinine, is that they are championed by the current potus. And therefore, in the eyes of all bien pensants there can’t be anything in it. But now suppose one of these drugs does actually help and that you have lost a loved one to the plage, can you then sue the FDA for delaying its deployment with politically motivated pseudo-science? I guess there’s a Paul somewhere who will tell you to go for it.
go for his uv inside and wash you insides with bleach. he cannot be wrong being potus!
both these items work as you would expect on viruses outside the body. unfortunately one disrupts human Dan and the other just kills inside the body.
75% alcohol works against virus but should you replace 75% of blood with alcohol?
I’m not sure how people are drawing these conclusions about what the President said unless they wildly misrepresent his statement.
Bill Bryan, Under Secretary for Science and Technology at DHS, said at the press briefing, “Our most striking observation to date is the powerful effect that solar light appears to have on killing the virus, both surfaces and in the air. We’ve seen a similar effect with both temperature and humidity as well, where increasing the temperature and humidity or both is generally less favorable to the virus.”
Bryan talked about the half-life of the coronavirus on surfaces like door handles and stainless steel surfaces, saying that when they “inject” UV rays into the mix along with high temperatures and increased humidity that the virus dies quickly.
“The virus does not survive as well in droplets of saliva, and that’s important because a lot of testing being done is not necessarily being done, number one, with the COVID-19 virus and number two, in saliva or respiratory fluids,” Bryan continued. “And thirdly, the virus dies the quickest in the presence of direct sunlight under these conditions.” …
“We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus, specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids, and I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes,” Bryan said. “Isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing. Just bring it on and leaving it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster.”
“Bryan added, “We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva.”
Immediately following Pres Trump said, “So, I’m going to ask Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing when we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”
Nowhere in his rhetorical question to Under Secretary Bryan did Trump advise people to ingest Lysol or any other disinfectant.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/fact-check-no-trump-did-not-tell-people-to-inject-themselves-with-disinfectant-or-drink-bleach?%3Futm_source=twitter
gfront has a long history of taking everything Trump says out of context.
The TDS is strong with this one.
light therapies using UV and infrared and other variant already IN use for cancers and other issues
you need to get u to speed before dissing it
or is it a case of TDS?
and as for the ridicule of Trump over injecting antiseptic cleaning items?
well GO OOK at Merks PPSV23 pnumonia vax
it USES PHENOL and IS injected
explains the high adverse event complaints too
but its legal and been used on idiots who dont read the data daily
You are a dishonest person
Trump seems to be very up to date with proposed/experimental treatrments. The AYTU Bioscience Healight https://irdirect.net/prviewer/release/id/4302840
Australia has had 83 Covid19 deaths.
just before ABC Australia shifted to 24/7 Covid panic mode, the following, by a rural reporter, slipped through. compare to todays Covid hysteria:
11 Feb: ABC Australia: Flu season which struck down 310,000 Australians ‘worst on record’ due to early outbreaks
ABC Sunshine Coast By Tara Cassidy
Researchers are warning little can be done to prevent future severe flu seasons, if a pattern of prolonged, year-round outbreaks continue.
Last year, Australia experienced its worst flu season on record, with more than 310,000 people presenting to hospital and health services nationwide.
The figure is seven times greater than Australia’s previous 18-year average…
World Health Organisation (WHO) influenza researcher, Ian Barr, said such aggressive seasons were generally a “one-in-every-10-year occurrence”, but early flu outbreaks had seen Australia go through two in just three years.
He said it is an issue that is hard to predict and one difficult to address with vaccines.
“Definitely in terms of influenza seasons 2019 was the biggest Australia has had … it was very unusual,” Dr Barr said…
He believes international travellers played a significant role, but said other factors were also at play.
“The whole business of influenza is a numbers game, so if you get enough people coming back to Australia with infections from overseas, that can happen,” Dr Barr said.
“We put it down to higher tourist numbers, more Australians travelling overseas, climate conditions…
Queensland Health Minister, Stephen Miles, said the intense season put a major strain on hospital and health services nationwide, which would have to incorporate early outbreaks into future planning.
“Certainly the levels we saw, it took a very high toll on the community and the health system,” he said.
“We had a record number of summer cases and that elongated the impact on our hospitals through more months of the year, as well as many of our own staff ended up catching the flu…
“There’s a lot of mysteries still about the flu and that’s why we have a lot of people allocated to researching and working on it.
“Every year the virus is different and the way it impacts us is different, we do our best to predict it.
“It just demonstrates how serious a virus the flu is and how important it is to get vaccinated and stop it spreading even more.”
But WHO’s Dr Barr said he does not believe vaccinations would have much impact where early outbreaks of influenza are concerned, stating 2019 was one of their most successful vaccination years to date.
“I wouldn’t say the vaccine had too much of an impact on that [severe season last year], the season was already in the starter gates and running before most vaccines were even given out,” he said.
“Given the significant number of cases in March and April — the vaccine isn’t even available during that time, and it normally takes a couple of weeks after being vaccinated to reach peak immunity.
“I wouldn’t say this was a vaccine issue.”
According to Dr Barr, vaccines are created based on strains circulating in the northern hemisphere, which meant it would be difficult to bring forward a release date in Australia.
He said current vaccines only last three to six months, so early immunisation would also mean they may not last through the peak months of July and August…
“There’s a lot of work and money being invested in trying to improve influenza vaccines, we’re taking a number of different approaches, but these things take time.”
While 2019 saw the highest number of influenza cases across the country, 2017 still holds the record for the highest number of flu-related deaths, with over 1,100 cases.
Last year there were over 900 influenza linked deaths in Australia.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/early-outbreaks-to-blame-for-worst-flu-season-on-record/11949320
the media very rarely reported on the 1,100 deaths in 2017 or the 900 deaths in 2019 . although last year people were returning from Hong Kong and Bali with this flu, for which there was no flu shot, no planes were stopped, and the country was not only not locked down, the flu season was largely ignored (much as it is every year in most countries).
thanks Pat
I knew it had been a bad yr hospitals were stretched and as an early victim in march It knocked me rotten for 3 weks and lost me a short term job as well
Youtube: 1h12m58s: 20 Apr: Perspectives on the Pandemic | Dr. John Ioannidis Update: 4.17.20 | Episode 4
posted by Journeyman Pictures
In this long-awaited follow-up to his interview in late March, Dr. John Ioannidis discusses the results of three preliminary studies, (including his latest, which shows a drastically reduced infection fatality rate); the worrisome effects of the lockdown; the Swedish approach; the Italian data; the ups and downs of testing; the feasibility of “contact tracing”, and much more.
Watch previous episodes of Perspectives on the Pandemic here (LINKS)
Here are the links to his studies (LINKS)…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwPqmLoZA4s
Ioannidis involved:
7 Apr: JAMA Internal Medicine: Viewpoint: What Other Countries Can Learn From Italy During the COVID-19 Pandemic
Authors: Stefania Boccia, MSc, PhD1; ***Walter Ricciardi, MD, MPH, MSc; John P. A. Ioannidis, MD, DSc
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2764369?guestAccessKey=c520cc85-bd2e-4ba0-8f99-ac75c8b5ef25&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=040720
***23 Mar: UK Telegraph: Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?
The country’s high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported
By Sarah Newey
“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older – the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”
A study in JAMA this week found that almost 40 per cent of infections and 87 per cent of deaths in the country have been in patients over 70 years old…
But Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.
“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.
***“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,” he says…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/
All this talk of using antibiotics against virus (totally ineffective) or subsequent bacterial infection, has massive problems.
Overuse of antibiotics (usually self prescribed) has led to most being ineffectual against bacteria – the bacteria have become resistant. Self prescribing helps these pathogens along the path of immunity. The antibiotics need to be preserved for the future.
About Antibiotic Resistance
Antibiotic resistance is where the bacteria that cause infections become resistant to antibiotics. It is a global catastrophe that threatens the lives of millions of people around the world if we don’t act now.
We are often exposed to bacteria that can be harmful to our health. This could be during medical procedures, such as dental work to organ transplantation, cancer therapy to hip or knee replacements. It can also happen when we injure ourselves, even through a simple scratch, or are exposed to a contaminated environment. As bacteria become increasingly resistant to the effects of antibiotics so the number of deaths will increase because of this. Resistance is a global health disaster that is already killing 700,000 people a year, and it is predicted to cause 10 million deaths per year by 2050 if the current situation is not improved
https://www.antibioticresearch.org.uk/about-antibiotic-resistance/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhZr1BRCLARIsALjRVQM-pTGpju7jhSwV7P39ldVH79rkmv16kk7Khiz5V8vTJd-66PvqIVEaAvhKEALw_wcB
Stop feeding them to livestock then…
Based on your earlier comment you are dishonest
🙁
Readers may be interested in this analysis of ivermectin:
https://www.randombio.com/ivermectin.html
Another on from that same site back in 2009 talks about why so many drugs fail in clinical trials.
Every drugs tried in people has worked in vitro and then shown to be safe, and often both safe and effective, in animals, or it would never have been tested in people to begin with.
And yet the vast majority fail in trials.
Many fail at the final phase of testing.
Viruses and animals have been in a biochemical war for hundreds of millions of years.
Both are very good at it.
Viruses exist in huge numbers and reproduce rapidly, or they would not cause disease in people.
The ones that do so, are very good at what they do.
For every layer of our incomprehensibly complex immune system, the viruses that cause disease in us have found a workaround, and perhaps more than one.
Also, viruses are not even exactly alive, while our cells are alive, which means we have to try to hit the with something that is more harmful to them than the far more complex cells, tissues, and organs that they infect.
Which is one very important reason why killing viruses in a person is much harder than killing them on a surface.
And we are far more than a lump of separate cells, which is likely a very important reason why it is harder to have an effect in a living animal than in a lump of cells, which is what a cell culture is.
Oops, here:
https://www.randombio.com/drug-failures.html
The article says:
That makes no sense to me. Medical science hasn’t advanced to the point where a patient can be weighed, and the dose can be based on that weight?
Here, from RxList.com, is the recommended dosage for treating strongyloidiasis with ivermectin:
Its looking more and more that the Swedes were correct 75 cases and falling. The whole lockdown will in the end prove to have been one of the biggest mistakes in human history. Lockdowns will only delayed later infections in Australia and NZ wait until winter.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/the-times/coronavirus-the-man-who-convinced-sweden-not-to-go-into-lockdown/news-story/9a0519b6e2e8cb47b1e2cae2228c3b3d
Delay is all it was ever supposed to do. Why on earth countries like NZ with low pop. density want to spread out a non existent problem is beyond reason. Horse-face still gets applauded by the Guardian though because female leaders are great.
The optimist in me says “The FDA banned it, it *must* work!” But, the pessimist in me says “No, the FDA has banned a few dangerous products in its history…” I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. But our wait will be an FDA satisfyingly long one.
In one of Trump’s news conferences he said he regrets ever mentioning the antimalaria drug. Because he mentioned it might work, ever person suffering from Trump derangement syndrome is now determined to prove the rug doesn’t work so they can prove him wrong. I heard he is no longer going to do those updates. After the fiasco about “injecting bleach or Lysol” (which of course he never said) it’s not worth doing them. Insane partisanship, especially from the press, continues unabated and gets in the way of progress.
They suffer from TDS and are not interested in giving information to the public. Trump is right to call them out when they do fake news.
Meanwhile your government tax dollars at work:
https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=61404
A pathetic use of government force on a doctor who was giving FREE vitamin C injections to front line medical staff and others.
They ignore that intravenous vitamin C has been shown to help with almost all the viral and bacterial infections known going back to the 1940s and Dr Klenner’s work treating polio.
http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerbio.html
Since when did the FBI and certain government officials begin practicing medicine?
Senescence of the immune system with age is a null hypothesis that will take some challenging to overturn but there may be another challenge developing for the young-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/a-serious-new-coronavirus-related-condition-may-be-emerging-in-children-with-uk-doctors-reporting-growing-numbers-requiring-intensive-care/ar-BB13glNF
It’s just too early with any of it to be overreacting with anecdotal witch doctoring but time is of the essence with some reasonable scientific discipline to get answers.
“Wuhan did NOT emerge until about 12/1019. ”
ChiCom19 has been around for a millenia?
Millenium.
Effective dose of ivermectin from cell culture experiments is 10x higher than approved dose in patients. But even with that IC50 from lab experiment is unlikely to be reached in patients.
So just forget about it except somebody proves a combinatorial approach with other drugs at reasonable plasma concentrations.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.21.20073262v1
I think you will find it’s 100 times the normal dose and it’s 10 times higher than the maximum ever tested in a human. The issue I have seen given for it’s refusal is it needs to go back for full testing at that dose.
“So any virus, or just this virus?”
This is of course one big reason to wonder why anyone should expect any of these repurposed drugs to work against this virus.
In vitro tests tell very little about what may work in a living animal, let alone what might be safe, or what concentration might be achievable.
And activity in animals seldom translates to efficacy and safety in people.
Ivermectin kills viruses in vitro…at a concentration that represent an amount of drug many times the fatally toxic dose for a person.
Let’s consider the malaria drug that is used for RA and lupus, both autoimmune conditions that cause terrible problems for the people that have these ailments.
HCQ was being looked at as a possible treatment for such diseases within a few years of being approved for use as an antimalarial.
The reason is simple enough to understand: When a large number of people take something, at least some of them will have other conditions and ailments at the time they are taken.
So it did not take long after this drug was used widely, that reports came in of people that said their RA or lupus symptoms (and some but not all other autoimmune conditions) had improved greatly when they took HCQ, and doctors and researchers checked it out.
This is why the sentiment expressed by the quoted sentence at top is applicable to not just ivermectin, but any drugs which has been in widespread usage for a long time.
CQ and HCQ have been tested expensively in humans and animals as antivirals. For a couple of decades at least.
They have not been found to work.
Sometimes people who did not get the drug had less virus after a period of time than people getting the drug.
But probably much more significantly, millions of people have apparently taken these drugs for many decades.
If they worked against viral infections and illnesses in any sort of general way, it would have been impossible for this not to have been seen and noted.
Viral pneumonia is a leading cause of death all over the world, as are many sorts of viral illnesses.
It is 100% for sure that many people that were very sick with viral disease have taken these drugs.
So if these drugs kill a virus, it is apparently only this one.
And how likely is that?
All of the drugs tested for activity against SARS in this study killed the virus in vitro.
A couple had activity in the mouse model they used.
One is interferon alpha, the other a drug which is an interferon inducer.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095632020601700505
The closest previously known virus strain to infect humans was SARS1.
These drugs were tested in animal models for activity against SARS, and failed to have any effect on viral replication:
The fact is, many drugs have an effect in vitro that do not show up in animals or people.
It is extremely common.
Viruses are hard to kill.
Even the best direct acting antivirals do not work for everyone who takes them, or against every strain of the same virus, or unless taken in combinations, or work well enough to actually help a sick person.
Anyone paying close attention is seeing that one country after another, one hospital after another, are stopping usage.
And one study after another is showing little reason to think that this will be the one virus these drugs inhibit in a person.
There is a long history of physicians trying to find a chemical that will cure sick people. In the early days of syphilis, toxic chemicals like mercury compounds were even tried. The ‘trick’ was to use something that was generally toxic to living organisms, and then find a dosage that a human would tolerate, but that would kill the pathogen. Sometimes things even worked out in the manner hoped for. But, for most known toxins like mercury and arsenic compounds, a dosage that kills a pathogen in a petri dish, usually is not tolerated by a living host. Thus, the search for natural antibiotics such as the penicillins, and the need for testing for side-effects in the general population.
Now on the other side, the FDA just issued a warning (see www. FDA.gov/product safety information/faq/covid) saying DO NOT use Ivermectin for CoVid-19—despite a decades long safety profile in humans and animals!
Now, that FDA false safety warning will surely discourage some properly designed clinical trials to sort out the truth. Just like the climate paleo hockey stick gang that got after Steve McIntyre, and then lost.
One of the problems here is that you can not expect the drug to have the same safety and pharmacokinetic profile in infected patients that it has in the populations for which safety has been established. Most compounds that work in vitro do not work in vivo, so the extrapolation from the lab to the whole human should always be suspect. Before scientists establish a safe and effective dosing regimen in whole infected humans, there shouldn’t be a clinical trial, and certainly not widespread use. It’s not uncommon to kill sick and elderly people by giving too high a dose of a drug that is “safe” in healthy young adults. Since most people with COVID-19 will survive, use of ivermectin could easily do more harm than good.
By reflecting away 30% of the ISR the atmospheric albedo cools the earth much like that reflective panel behind a car’s windshield.
For the greenhouse effect to perform as advertised “extra” energy must radiate upwards from the surface. Because of the non-radiative heat transfer processes of the contiguous atmospheric molecules such ideal BB upwelling “extra” energy does not exist.
There is no “extra” energy for the GHGs to “trap” and “back” radiate and no greenhouse warming.
With no greenhouse effect what CO2 does or does not do is moot.
********
For the Covid-19 to perform as advertised it had to spread exponentially.
Just as RGHE must have BB upwelling from the surface. (NOT possible!!)
Exponential is some “experts” brain fart, a model stacked on assumptions much like RCP 8.5.
The data is clearly second order.
And the ECDC data shows that Covid-19 flames out on its own after 3 to 4 weeks.
Much like a typical season flu bug.
Most countries were already showing some curving over of daily case numbers before any direct restrictions were put in place. That is normal evolution of an epidemic. ie the initial exponential like growth rapidly becomes sub exponential.
If you wish to challenge that you need to try a little harder than just saying “brain fart”.
You need to do something non trivial processing to detect whether it is happening or not. Monckton’s graphs are incapable of revealing whether it happens or not.
https://climategrog.wordpress.com/2019-ncov-weekly-projection-italy-2/
Sadly, that’s about the size of it. Plus all the vested interests in medical and pharma industries are out to prove that a cheap, freely available drug is no good and we must by 4 billion courses of treatments of their new, expensive, patented anti-viral.
The EU DISCOVER project to test possible treatments has explicitly designed the HCQ tests to exclude exactly what Dr Didier Raoult of Marseilles said is effective.
Along with Rud Istvan’s climate analogy, it seems “wear a face mask” is the new “change a few light bulbs”.
Greg: The EU DISCOVER project to test possible treatments has explicitly designed the HCQ tests to exclude exactly what Dr Didier Raoult of Marseilles said is effective.
Do you have a reference for that?
Greg: exactly what Dr Didier Raoult of Marseilles
I have not read his very latest but in what I did read, a paper he posted on the web, he was unclear on some details, such as the actual age, sex, and comorbidity distribution in his study; the rate and distribution of adverse reactions; any other special details about the training and protocols used by his staff.