Social Changes with COVID-19 are a prelude to life with less fossil fuels


Guest Post By Ronald Stein

Founder and Ambassador for Energy & Infrastructure of PTS Advance, headquartered in Irvine, California

Published March 11, 2020 at CFACT

While the world is feverously trying to reduce emissions from fossil fuel usage, we get hit with the horrific contagious Coronavirus COVID-19. We’ve seen extensive self-imposed social adjustments to transportation that are very similar to what will be required to live with less fossil fuels in the future.

We’ve seen a serious reduction in the usage of the transportation infrastructures of airlines and cruise ships, as well as automobiles and trucks, and their impact on the leisure and entertainment industries, all to avoid crowds.

Before fossil fuels and the thousands of products made from petroleum derivatives, and electricity that followed, the world was a zero-sum snake pit that was a war against one another scrounging for food, water, and shelter. In the 1800’s most people never traveled 100-200 miles from where they were born. Life expectancy throughout Europe hovered between 20 and 30 years of age.

The social lifestyles before 1900 had no such transportation choices, as they had no autos, planes, or cruise ships for transportation. The inventions of the automobile, airplane, and the use of petroleum in the early 1900’s led us into the Industrial Revolution. Crude oil, natural gas, and coal changed – for the better – the lifestyles of every person living in developed countries such as, the U.S., Europe, Japan, South Korea, and Australia.

We would not be able to “make products and move things” if not for the thousands of products from petroleum derivatives that get manufactured from crude oil that wind turbines and solar panels cannot manufacture. A few of those products that are part of modern societies include:

Economies around the world, and all the infrastructures are increasing their demand and usage each year of those energy sources from deep earth minerals/fuels to make thousands of products, inclusive of but not limited to:

· Medications and medical equipment for cures for most diseases

· Electronics for worldwide communications

· Fertilizers to help agriculture feed the world

· Asphalt for all the roads

· Tires for all vehicles

· Steel for every building in the world

· Wire for the worldwide electrical grid

Today, the airlines that did not exist before 1900, transported more than 4.1 billion passengers in 2017 around the world and projections are 7.8 billion airline passengers by 2036. Cruise ships which also did not exist before 1900 move 25 million passengers around the world every year.

Along with those transportation options available for society, we also have billions of vehicle trips to and from airports, hotels, ports, and amusement parks that are increasing each year. COVID-19 has shown us that society changes can reduce the demand of those growing numbers.

Yes, we may be using fossil fuels too extensively for leisure and entertainment, but the developed world is where it is today, healthier and wealthier, because of all those products we get from those oil derivatives.

To meet those low emission targets, we’ll need to continue to reduce the transportation demands of society and COVID-19 may be showing us how we’ll need to retract from our extravagant usage of the various transportation systems that did not exist before fossil fuels.

Our future existence may be less vacations and less business conferences. Reductions in the usage of the entertainment and hospitality industries, neither of which existed before fossil fuels, may also be necessitated.

As we weed ourselves from oil, we’ll need to lower our demands for transportation infrastructures that COVID-19 has shown us the way.

As we weed ourselves away from fossil fuels, we’ll need to accept that many developing countries like many in China, India, and Africa that are still stuck in the pre-1900’s era that have yet to join the industrial revolution and the opportunity to enjoy the thousands of products in our daily lifestyles, may never do so as the fuels that support the demands of the various transportation infrastructures will be diminishing.

The same politicians that are thrashing on the oil and gas industry, and seeking its demise, are the same ones reaping the benefits of the medications, medical equipment, communication networks, and the thousands of other products from that industry that have contributed to their lifestyles and their ability to live beyond 80 years of age. Those vocal about emissions need to join the conservation movement.

Yes the world has changed from the societies that existed in primeval times, without airlines, trains, vehicles, merchant ships, medications, fertilizers, cosmetics, and military equipment like aircraft carriers, battleships, planes, tanks and armor, trucks, troop carriers, and weaponry, and electricity that did not exist before 1900, but now may be the time to start showing our conservation cards.

At a rapid pace more and more countries and governments are moving their energy policies toward ridding the world of fossil fuels to electrify societies using only intermittent electricity from wind turbines and solar panels. Electricity alone may support a simplifier lifestyle but cannot support the huge energy needs of the transportation infrastructures, nor provide the thousands of products that societies demand from those petroleum derivatives.

While everyone improves their conservation and efficient use of energy, it may be timely to begin weeding ourselves away from the transportation infrastructures, and the leisure and entertainment industries to the best of their abilities to conserve oil for where its most needed for society, to make the thousands of products that support lifestyles as well as worldwide sustainable economic development.

Ronald Stein, P.E.

Founder and Ambassador for Energy & Infrastructure

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Ian E
March 12, 2020 6:14 am

Oh yes, indeed. Clearly we must revert to cave-age living to allow for highly contentious and totally unproved claims by Marxists with the connivance of peer-group pressure on politicians, scientists and lay-people from a dangerously biased MSM.

Thanks for such a startlingly clearly revealed agenda!

Ron Long
Reply to  Ian E
March 12, 2020 10:59 am

And now, Ian E, those idiot Marxists, led by Putin, have decided to begin an oil war with Saudi Arabia, and the result is substantial damage to economies. Sure, the price of oil falling will result in the price of fuel falling, but the disruption to the status quo, relative to producers and consumers more-or-less balanced, is not work it.

Bryan A
Reply to  Ron Long
March 12, 2020 2:26 pm

Since COVID-19 requires several degrees of separation to maintain health, It is more like Anti-Social Changes
Perhaps there will be an increase in Anti-Social Websites in responce

Charles Higley
Reply to  Ian E
March 12, 2020 11:33 am

All effort to decrease fossil fuel use or decrease CO2 emissions are patently political and have nothing to do with climate or the environment. It is clear that technology and the growth of wealth is great for the environment as we take better care of it, use resources more efficiently, and do not make new mistakes. Except for the inane biofuels program, the US is growing its food on 1/3 of the land it was 50 years ago. All of that land can be let go back to nature. That’s a wonderful development.

CO2 cannot and does not do what they claim. It matters not what the gas is, -17ºC gas in the upper tropical troposphere cannot warm the 15ºC Earth surface. It’s simply thermodynamically impossible, but the public is sold junk science night and day to further an agenda based on power and wealth.

As oil and gas are NOT fossil fuels but are abiotic from the planet’s core, they are basically a renewable resource and the only way we would not have the oil and gas we want is if we foolishly did not harvest enough.

Pretending, mindlessly, that we are running out of carbon fuels, or that CO2 has to be warming the climate, is to buy into a dictatorship because you do not want to think about the consequences of being a slave in poverty under the dictator.

Nick Hill
Reply to  Charles Higley
March 13, 2020 1:08 am

I’ve heard about the theory of an abiotic origin for oil. Where is your claim best substantiated? I think Russia have used the idea to successfully discover and drill new wells, have they not?

Reply to  Nick Hill
March 13, 2020 5:58 am

Yes, and the Russian weather models seem a lot more realistic, showing very mild warming even if we double CO2 from today’s level.

It doesn't add up...
March 12, 2020 6:25 am

Coronavirus provides an e experimental environment for testing out the kind of totalitarian control that zero carbon policy will require. The difference is that it poses a real threat, whereas zero carbon policy is voluntary.

Public taste for the experiment will be worth watching. Totalitarians will be watching too, and seeking to impose ongoing restrictions on the back of it to accelerate zero carbon policy. AOC and Greta will see it as opportunity.

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  It doesn't add up...
March 12, 2020 8:34 am

The COVID-19 virus and subsequent travel ban from mainland Europe to the US should provide a stress test for Russia’s economy. They are dumping more oil on the market at a time when demand is tanking – in no small part due to the travel ban.

Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
March 12, 2020 5:30 pm


March 12, 2020 6:30 am

The plebs. must be contained and heavily taxed, while our masters and betters, like Weinstein and Soros, carry on with their gilded lifestyles……

Reply to  chaswarnertoo
March 12, 2020 6:53 am

Weinstein and Soros will carry on only for so long. Unfortunately, there is some CV survivor on a path to replace them.

Reply to  Scissor
March 12, 2020 7:14 am


Weinstein just got 23 years didn’t he?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  HotScot
March 12, 2020 7:56 am

Yes, Weinstein got 23 years.

The women he attacked got life without parole.

Weinstein still has more charges to face. He’ll spend the rest of his life in prison.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 12, 2020 8:19 am

Yes, it’s especially interesting times for him. I can’t see him jumping over the prison fence with walker in tow.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 12, 2020 8:36 am

Maybe he too will be found hanging with a bed sheet wrapped around his neck. Got all tangled up in his bedding…

Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 18, 2020 5:12 am

Weinstein is a slug, however I have much more respect for the women who actually refused him rather than complained years later. these women are probably wives and mothers now rather than superstars.

March 12, 2020 6:40 am

”COVID 19 has shown us the way”

So, another idiot who is so out of touch that he’s willing to take a chance that the Virus does not leave a mark on the public consciousness to the extent that he suffers blow back.

Or just another variation of the long historical line of doomsayers who claim that our woes are because GOD is angry with us, and who has simply transposed fossil fuels for a god.

As James Randi would say, ‘You Decide’ 🙂

March 12, 2020 6:46 am

Really? Come see the roads in Europe. Much safer to take the car than public transport and while gas is sooo cheap. I think you dream.

March 12, 2020 6:48 am

Also – as you wean YOURself from oil, do you intend to go naked, with furniture, infrastructure and so on? Because all of these come from oil….

AGW is Not Science
March 12, 2020 6:50 am

The Eco-Fascist credo always sums to “And misery for all.”

Except for the socialist ruling classes, of course.

Gordon Dressler
March 12, 2020 6:51 am

Coming soon . . . AGW and CAGW “Greenies” taking credit for what a virus has caused in terms of reducing fossil fuel use.

March 12, 2020 6:56 am

why does China get a total pass on everything?…

People should be screaming their heads off at China right now…..

Reply to  Latitude
March 12, 2020 7:27 am

Because China already has the type of government that these people want for the rest of us.

Patrick Robinson
Reply to  MarkW
March 12, 2020 9:31 am

Certainly our wonderful Trudeau has expressed admiration for the Chinese govt ability to turn on a dime and slaughter any number of people in the way of progress (paraphrased slightly)

Andy Mansell
Reply to  Latitude
March 12, 2020 8:45 am

I’ve been wondering that, how come the SJWs and snowflakes aren’t out protesting about China and Iran? If this had started in the US or UK and we’d acted the same way the lefties would be in outrage.

March 12, 2020 6:57 am

Never let a crisis go to waste, eh doc? Shameless. I’ll say, I’d still rather travel in my car than a bus, subway, plane, or rideshare, especially when I don’t know the other people, and their health habits.

March 12, 2020 6:58 am

Well, at least there is no shortage of oil if we want it. That’s a relief for when we regain sanity. 10-20-30 years ago, we were just a few more years to reach Peak Oil. Obviously wrong. And the same for the climate fraud extortion and racketeering. But we are living through historical times and will be interesting to see if the zealots get their way. A lot will depend on the USA election and which way America goes, and whether it can deliver sanity and true global leadership.

John the Econ
March 12, 2020 7:19 am

Fortunately, for the most part our utilities will continue to function. For the full experience, pull the electric and gas service to your home along with the Internet. See how long it takes your kids who think the GND is so super to go crazy.

Reply to  John the Econ
March 12, 2020 7:45 am

Yes, you right. So far, my internet, gas and electricity is doing just fine. But it weren’t, that would seal the deal for more clear headed climate science, at least about panic and doom. But this overblown panic may also be a prelude to sanity against the climate fascists. This may also be the end of the climate fraud impaling us all on their petard. This is just on paper so far with the meltdown, and no major inconvenience yet as you propose except the loss of trillions in wealth that are being destroyed and/or stolen. This is a crisis which we have made for ourselves, or have allowed to be created by hostile foreign forces. Although there are going to be severe economic consequences from this, far worse than any virus. The actual structural damage hasn’t happened yet and will take a fair bit of time to work through this one as demand crashes and real jobs are lost. Well, IMHO.

John Chism
Reply to  Earthling2
March 12, 2020 12:06 pm

Earthling2 “But this overblown panic may also be a prelude to sanity against the climate fascists.” “This is just on paper so far with the meltdown, and no major inconvenience yet as you propose except the loss of trillions in wealth that are being destroyed and/or stolen. This is a crisis which we have made for ourselves, or have allowed to be created by hostile foreign forces.” “Although there are going to be severe economic consequences from this, far worse than any virus. The actual structural damage hasn’t happened yet and will take a fair bit of time to work through this one as demand crashes and real jobs are lost. ”

So correct in many of your comments. The “economic consequences” are already starting to affect many businesses in the transportation industries of global travling masstransit of planes and ships and local masstransit of buses, trains/trams/high speed rails, taxi services of every kind where people are afraid to go into public or wherever other people have been that may be contagious. Sporting events cancelled professionally to school games, not going to movies and plays, not going to stores to buy anything unless they’re desperately out of things they need and over-stocking up on things to avoid going back for weeks…, depleting warehouses of common goods and commodities that the Transportation Industries like trucking are losing business. When you total up all these things the number of employees not working at the venues, concession stands, drivers/operators, maintenance personnel, etc…all add up to millions not earning their normal incomes, that creates a big drop in each countries GDP and the Taxation collected by the governments affected.

The American Socialist Party – the defunct Democratic Party – that has been against Capitalism because of the Alarmist on Global Warming by Fossil Fuels. So everything they have been wanting is happening by reducing Fossil Fuels because of this COVID-19 like this article points out is like the “Green New Deal” on steroids. The Economy is going to be hit hard like the “Stock Market Crash of 1929” as global trading of products will decline, making the businesses of manufactured products lose revenue, their stocks are going to be reduced – like already happened in this panic and the rebound is going to be slow. If these governments don’t start reducing their spending on unnecessary wealth sharing programs, foreign aid, open borders and demonizing Fossil Fuels like these American Socialist candidates are advocating for, they’re going to collapse like the “Cloward and Pevin Strategy” was designed as.

Reply to  John Chism
March 12, 2020 2:15 pm

Yes John, you are of course correct and right that there are a lot of things just happening overnight even the loss of NBA basketball last night, now the NHL hockey season and maybe even delaying baseball sounds like just this morning, and everything else you mentioned just going bizarre the last week/10 days. Feels like a few months here already, but hasn’t been but a few weeks at most here.

But so far it is barely the last 2 week pay period that will be paid tomorrow and the real shock will be in the months to come as everything you mention winds down, depending how crazy they go with this ‘containment’. The cat is already out of the bag, so not sure containment will do a lot of good now, other than secure the old and vulnerable folk who might get the worst of it. Perhaps it could have been better contained in Wuhan, China, if they hadn’t allowed several million to escape to the the 4 corners of the good Earth. But the CPC in Red China suppressed info for at least the first 3 weeks while a lot of infected people left China for everywhere else but China. Sure seems to be following the Old Silk Road from Wuhan, to Iran, to Rome as did previous plagues and disease.

Most everyone is going to get this sooner or later, and for most of us, it is going to be a case of the sniffles and a dry cough like a mild cold or perhaps even a bad flu. And then they will maybe get immunity for Round 2 that returns with a vengeance next fall after it mutates. And who know then how that unfolds. But that was what happened with the Spanish Flu, when the first outbreak that all my grand parents got and survived, and then their antibodies primed them from the worse Round 2 in later 1918 and 1919 when so many young healthy folk perished. Definitely a Black Swan Event now, but also looks like is being aided and abetted by human stupidity destroying the economy. And Russian mischief, combined with Saudi complicity.

But this has all just happened the last 10 days/few weeks, here and only moderately the first few 3-4 days. The stock markets were still going full guns just the beginning of the month 12 days ago, and just mildly dropping slightly the last week of February. And the oil ‘trade war’ didn’t really start until just last Friday, when Russia and Saudi Arabia made their announcements, just 5 days ago although oil was slipping the last few months a bit. So yes, the collateral damage is going to be extreme, and will only start to show up on tomorrow’s pay day from the last few weeks, and then will hit like an avalanche the next few months. It is 100% certainty it is now a major recession, and a possibility of a Depression if they don’t reign in this madness.

Instead of shutting down the entire economy and semi quarantining the entire population, I think the efforts should of went into ensuring the elderly and vulnerable were isolated, at least until they can maybe get some antivirals, or plasma transfusions which are sounding promising from recovered patients, or an outright vaccine, although that might take 12-18 months, if ever. And how do you contain the elderly and vulnerable for that long. It is inevitable that the there will be some mortality by those elderly and vulnerable, but so does the regular influenza season every year and nobody bats an eye about that. Killing the economy off is going to also basically put a lot of people out of commission. Probably more suicides will develop than any deaths in those of the younger aged demographics just because they are going to lose their job, car and maybe their house. Crime will soar, drug abuse will be rampant, and all hope will be lost.

Looks like a practise run for how our 245 year experiment with freedom and liberty might end, if the climate fascists can use a similar excuse to shut down the world economy, if we let them. But I think people are going to have had it with fear and panic, especially 50-80 years down the road. It is downright sickening to read some of their gleeful comments on how great this all is for the lack of demand of fossil fuels because the world will be trapped in a totalitarian depression, with absolute control over energy and liberty. This is their ultimate goal as they fully admit. SO everyone has to say this climate extortion and racketeering is an evil force, or that will be 1000 times worse than any of this.

Al Miller
March 12, 2020 7:21 am

The great pursuit of the Democrats- Life (for the elites), liberty (only if you are a true believer) and happiness (for the Marxist elites ONLY). For all others you are there to serve in silence and misery. Sounds a lot like the old systems we got rid of with progress to me.
In case the watermelons and their followers haven’t noticed- life has never been better for humanity.

March 12, 2020 7:23 am

Is this article a POE?

Reply to  Billy
March 12, 2020 8:02 am

Yes, I have my internet delivered through a an extended Power Over Ethernet (POE) connection.

March 12, 2020 7:52 am

The likelihood of a word wide recession or even a depression triggered by the virus is very real. The same type of recession that would be caused by a sharp reduction in fossil fuel use. Watch for bankruptcies in the travel industry coupled with energy sector failures. Watch the cost to industry escalate due to disruptions in the work force and supply restrictions.
Although the aged will suffer the most deaths it is the youthful who will suffer the most economically. Governments will suffer drastic revenue restrictions as tax sources decline and industry bailout costs soar.
We may see if the public still has the resolve for drastic climate change policies after this is over. I have a feeling the emphasis will be on rebuilding economies and wealth.
It should be noted that many deaths can already be directly linked to the virus while there are probably none that can be similarly linked to global climate changes caused by human activity.

Reply to  Rick
March 12, 2020 8:44 am

Rick says:
“The likelihood of a word wide recession or even a depression triggered by the virus is very real.”

Every month that large portions of an economy are disrupted by any disease IS a recession month, even if not officially named a recession, because there were fewer than six months.

The only question is: How many months will the temporary shut down of commerce last ?

The answer is likely to be several months, based on past serious diseases, and experiences in China in 2020.

China is a leading indicator for COVID-19 in the rest of the world — through drastic actions, it appears the communist dictator has gained control of the spread of the disease in Wuhan, where it appeared to have started.

For people who panic: Other (ordinary) strains of the flu kill FAR more people than COVID-19 every year !

Lee L
Reply to  Richard Greene
March 13, 2020 12:25 pm

Again.. other strains of the flu circulate in China and then travel here. They get the flu too.
But China doesn’t lock down its cities for influenza. They do lock down cities for this virus and that is because it is different… more lethal and equally transmissible with no treatment that is effective as yet.

It is foolish to shrug and say ‘it’s just a flu’.
It may be that it will be with us long term but for now, if rate of transmission can be slowed down for a few months it may avoid the situation where you are having respirator lotteries and tent hospitals as it really looks like everyone’s medical system will be completely overwhelmed.

My two bits worth.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Lee L
March 15, 2020 9:35 pm

It is complicated but this is a rational evaluation of the situation, IMO.
Nothing is going to stop it, but slowing it seems to be a very desirable thing to do. But slowing it may be impossible without draconian controls over movement…not of some people, or most people, but everyone in the affected areas.
And at this point, it sure looks like all areas are affected.

As an aside, it is very difficult to understand, given all we think we know, how it is a crowded country with 1500 million people has in a few weeks reduced new cases to a few a day.

Joel Snider
March 12, 2020 7:58 am

Well, Oregon and Washington just banned gatherings over two-hundred people – so, right of assembly – check.

Kate Brown is ramrodding through her New Green Deal without a vote – right to vote – check.

I’m sure we’re going to get a state of emergency on gun-violence soon too.

I will also point out the irony of all the high-density, collectivist forcings by progressives and, gee, doesn’t that conflict with ‘don’t congregate, because you might spread a pandemic’?

I don’t see Kate Brown shutting down the MAX train.

Robert W Turner
March 12, 2020 7:58 am

The month of March has just been cancelled. Everyone panic, there is a new case of the common cold going around.

Reply to  Robert W Turner
March 12, 2020 8:05 am

For the past week, pro-government Spanish journalists have ridiculed the drastic measures of other countries and chanted that pernicious mantra: “the coronavirus is nothing but a flu.” And so, while Italy, Iran, France, Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, and Japan decreed important bans and urged their citizens to avoid rallies and take extreme precautions, the Spanish government threw protesters into the streets while millions of people maintained their travel plans and social gatherings.

On Sunday, as I watched the packed feminist march in Madrid, I suspected something terrible might happen. The Spanish government led the Spaniards to believe that, for some mysterious reason, perhaps associated with the magical properties of our red wine, we were immune to this virus. And according to official reports, we were, but only until the first minute after the end of the last feminist march. Then they admitted we didn’t have 374 coronavirus cases but in fact more than 1,200, an evolving disaster equal to or worse than the Italian one.

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Neo
March 12, 2020 8:26 am

And over 30,000 people have died from influenza already this year in just the US. A bad flu season takes over 1,000,000 lives each year and bad flu outbreaks can take tens of millions. The CDC estimates that on average people catch 2-3 “common cold” viruses each year, an estimated 33% of these are from covid family viruses, and the number of people that die from these viruses each year is hard to estimate.

So please tell me, how is 1,200 cases of Covid-19 in a nation of 45,000,000 a disaster?

Paul Penrose
Reply to  Robert W Turner
March 12, 2020 10:10 am
Reply to  Paul Penrose
March 12, 2020 2:57 pm

Nothing to say?

Reply to  Robert W Turner
March 12, 2020 9:28 pm

On March 11th, Donna Laframboise showed a table where Spain’s case fatality rate is 23%.
Spain’s total coronavirus cases as of 3/13/2020 just after midnight is 3146.

You reference 1,200 cases of COVID-19.
America as of 3/13/2020 just after midnight now shows coronavirus cases are 1,758; an increase of 558.
America’s case fatality rate is currently 56.3%.

Unlike claims that COVID-19 is only deadly for the old and infirm, China’s flyer regarding COVID-19 clearly shows the deadliness is high for starting at age 20 with the rates increasing as the age increase.
comment image?dl=0

News from Italy indicated doctors and nurses are forced to prioritize COVID-19 care for those without prior conditions; like old age or other illnesses.

“The testimony of an unnamed intensivist (a physician who specializes in caring for the critically ill) has been posted on Twitter by his/her British medical colleague, Jason van Schoor. Please read the full Twitter thread here.

The unnamed doctor, working in the Lombardy region, explains that this is “the most developed region of Italy,” with an “extraordinary” health care system. We’re told not to make the mistake of thinking what’s being described “is happening in a 3rd world country.”

Hospitals are now beseiged, “and numbers do not explain things at all,” this person declares. Normal medical care has been suspended. Operating rooms have been converted to intensive treatment units (ITUs). Doctors who specialize in orthopedics (bones) are being “given a leaflet and sent to see patients” struck down by this lung disease.

The third wave consists of “tons of patients with moderate” respiratory difficulties. Those patients soon deteriorate and fill up the intensive care unit. As their numbers grow, they consume all the non-invasive ventilation (NIV) resources. They use up all the CPAP machines, and require therapeutic oxygen.

Here’s the crucial point. According to this doctor, because hospitals are now running at 200% capacity, patients older than 65, and younger patients with additional health issues, are de-prioritized. If you have relatives with a “history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant,” says this doctor, no extraordinary measures will be taken to save their lives. Even if they are young.”

Wednesday, i.e. 3/11/2020 America released a study.

Aerosol and surface stability of HCoV-19</a? (SARS-CoV-2) compared to SARS-CoV-1"

The earlier SARS is described as a “super spreader” in rate of infections. Intimations are that SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) is also a super spreader.

The researchers state that COVID-19 virus is viable for three hours in the atmosphere. Then later the research describes that the test for atmosphere viability was only conducted for 180 minutes. Apparently, end of the test means end of COVID-19 viability.

Length of COVID-19 viability is mucous was not tested.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Robert W Turner
March 15, 2020 10:01 pm

It needs to be noted if no one else does, that those numbers for flu deaths are for Pneumonia and influenza, and are numbers of people who die WITH flu or pneumonia, but not necessarily OF flu or pneumonia.
IOW…if they were not very old or had some preexisting condition, the flue or the pneumonia would likely not have killed them.
Also, this many people die of those things even though almost everyone has been exposed to influenza and other causes of viral and bacterial pneumonia before, so some immunity exists, and others who are in contact with the persons who die are not likely to also get very sick and die. Most will not even get sick. When one person gets the flu, everyone they have been in contact with does not get it.
When one person dies, everyone else is not at increased risk of dying.
Also, the flu has been spreading among people all over the entire planet for all of time.
Six months ago, one year ago, it was already everywhere.
Three months ago, it is likely a few hundred people in one city in China had the disease, and a month prior to that, it may have been only one person or perhaps no people but a few animals for sale in a market with thousands of people passing their cages daily.
So the absolute numbers at this point is a dumb comparison. It just is.
Besides, when people panic, when stock markets crash, and businesses are closed, it does not matter if it was rational to start with.
It did not matter that it was irrational that people spent their life savings on tulip bulbs at one point in history.
The stock market losing value in 1929 did not mandate all of the chaos that ensued, or all of the misery that went along with it.
The fact that it is irrational for store shelves to be stripped bare by panic buying will not help anyone get the items they need.
In fact, it is likely that millions have been infected by standing amidst crowds of other shoppers, some of whom were infected and do not even know it, and they did so while buying stuff they likely do not in most cases need to have bought right then.
People in airports all over the country for the past two days have been stuck standing shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people WHO ALL JUST GOT BACK FROM OVERSEAS for as much as 6 hours or more while they were checked for illness!
So how many people in that crowd is everyone with the virus going to have infected in six hours of standing next to thousands of other people?
How long after being infected does it take to test positive?
How many of the people infected while waiting to get out of that crowd, got infected, tested negative, but in a week will now be positive?
One infected person shedding virus under those conditions might have infected hundreds of others under such conditions! It may be that is is likely they did so, and even inevitable.
So making them all stand there like that, in airports all over the country, then being told they are negative for the virus and sent on their way, even though many of them just GOT the damn virus while waiting but now think they are OK, means that each of those newly infected in that crowd will not be infecting many others.
That is the grim math of contagion, seemingly unknown to whoever decided this was a good idea.
If it was the same person or people who thought it was a good idea to keep all those people in “quarantine” on a cruise ship, I have to wonder…why do they still have that job?
Whoever made that decision should have been shown the door, along with anyone who did not object loudly who call themselves public health professionals!

It honestly looks to me like a very large number of people are there own worst enemies in this situation, and a lot of people who are supposed to know what they are doing, and have the job of looking out for the rest of us, are in fact very stupid and not just unqualified but a menace to public health instead.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
March 15, 2020 10:04 pm

“…infected in that crowd will now be infecting many others.”
Should have said.

Reply to  Neo
March 12, 2020 9:44 am

March 12, 2020 at 8:05 am
allow me to straight forward tell you, that for what ever reason, the Spanish point and stand still applies as realistic.
Any thing as per means of science and proper approach at that tells;
that this coronavirus pandemic is as mild as the mildest seasonal flu.

At this point in time the only actual meaning question remaining to be answered is;
How long it will take for the WHO to really engage, as it supposed to,
in an actual act of “killing” this “hazard”, the very serious hazard of the insane scare mongering global non justifiable panic.

This pandemic is real , but also it is real that it is as mild for not saying insignificant in its health danger to global population.
In the end of the day when all said and done, the fatality of this viral infection,
in consideration of attribution will still be within the error range, no really truly as proparly detectable problem.

Time only will tell, but still it hangs on in the next coming move from WHO.

When WHO will have to accommodate the proposition of its existence as with some merit there or not.z*cx
March 12, 2020 at 8:05 am
WHO already declared the condition as pandemic, clearly meaning that the fatality rate of this virus actually happens to be far to low in reality then the very early stage estimation of 2%, which got to be considered as far too high in the consideration of the real one, realistic one there,
under the circumstances.
In my understanding this is not a joke, and hey we will not need to wait for the end of this century to know.
In one month, or most two, we will know.
No any fatality reaching at 1%, or even 0.5% at the end of the day, or the end of this silly horrific movie,
then heads have really to roll, as no excuse under any circumstance there.

But hey, ticme only will tell at the end of the day.


No an

Lee L
Reply to  Neo
March 12, 2020 10:00 am

Yep. Nothing but a flu.

Still …..China has flu every year too. It IS curious that it locked down entire cities this year yet not other ‘flu’ years?

What are they up to?

Lee L
Reply to  Neo
March 12, 2020 10:10 am

“the coronavirus is nothing but a flu.”

Hmm yes. Just a flu.

China gets the flu every year too. They don’t lock down cities of 10 million people every year. How come this year?

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Lee L
March 12, 2020 1:07 pm

If you want to know why China would shut down their country for a cold that has infected 0.0067% of their population, and the media acting like a giant asteroid is on a collision course with Earth, just look at the results.

Reply to  Robert W Turner
March 12, 2020 8:26 am

Panic has left the station. Whether you like it or not we’re riding this train, even Forest Gump is.

March 12, 2020 8:02 am

Apparently, COVID-19 doesn’t like sunlight or temperatures over 77 (explains no outbreak in tropics)
Take your pick, if Climate Change doesn’t kill us, the Coronavirus will.

Terry Bixler
March 12, 2020 8:02 am


Tom Abbott
March 12, 2020 8:20 am

The Wuhan virus isn’t going to change our social interactions other than on a temporary basis.

The virus will either be contained, or it will become common like the flu. And we should know within a few months time. Once either one of those things happens, then society will get back to normal and accept a certain amount of deaths from Wuhan every year like we do the flu now, if it cannot be contained.

The real disruptions to our society are right now and are because we are trying to contain the virus. If it can’t be contained, then draconian measures to contain it will no longer be necessary.

Dr. Seigle said this morning that the Wuhan virus can stay airborne for several hours and can be infectious on surfaces for several hours, although apparently it can live for a longer period on some surfaces but is only infectious for a short period of that time (that’s my understanding of what was said).

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 12, 2020 9:07 am

The Covid Family of viruses account for about a third of sicknesses referred to as the common cold. Good luck containing the spread of the common cold. The real damage being done is the spread of the newest crowd madness, not from the newest cold virus.

Reply to  Robert W Turner
March 12, 2020 9:39 am

I recall an old episode of the original Star Trek TV show, and Bones (Dr. McCoy) of the USS Enterprise says to Spock and Captain Kirk…”Jim, it is the 24th Century and we still haven’t found a cure for the common cold”. I have a sense this has always been with us at some level, and always will be, but it mutates so often, will be hard to get a grip on it. Maybe this version has been circulating as a cold virus for a bit, and now just mutated into the latest version. COVID 2.0 next season might be a lot worse and come for the healthy young ones, just like the H1N1 Spanish Flu type of influenza virus did, which is similar to bird flu of today, mainly H5N1 and H5N2.

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Earthling2
March 12, 2020 10:15 am

Any form of influenza can be lethal to young and old people. Bad colds are typically only lethal to the old and frail or those with underlying diseases which compound it, and Covid-19 has been no different. I doubt it will be the first cold virus ever to be especially lethal to anyone but this group of people.

William Astley
Reply to  Earthling2
March 12, 2020 3:31 pm

Yes and what could happen as COVID as the talking heads say there is already community based transmission in the US and most certainly could be in say Iran.

What people do not get is COVID is flu like in its ability to spread and it has the microbiological connections to attack and permanently damage the lungs.

So this is not an illness a person will want to get.

Everyone that get a lung attack, will want full hospital treatment to minimize the risk of permanent lung damage.

The only ‘solution’ now is country quarantine, stopping all travel from any problem source until it is clear there is no more cases at source.

What we need is a vaccination to reduce cases.

Another hope, is there is talk about a breakthrough cure, that is effective against all corvid viruses, as it attacks a backdoor weakness in the virus.

The virus is established when there is community based transmission, where the infection is from local sources that are not traceable to foreign sources.

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 12, 2020 9:08 am

or it will become common like the flu.

How can it not? It is now in many world locations and a 14 day quarantine takes away only ~97%
of possible sources. Thus, the spread is slowed. That’s good if you need an ICU bed. Otherwise it just means you get the virus a few months or a year or two later. You still get it.

Also, a Copper surface was mentioned as having a 4 hour time. How much Cu in the mix was not mentioned. Something to think about as we adjust to this.
Stainless steel — the last great surface material — allows for a much longer life of the virus.

Reply to  John F. Hultquist
March 12, 2020 9:56 am

Silver too has some type of antibacterial and perhaps antivirus properties. How does that technically work? What is the mechanism that makes Copper and Silver work like that? My Grandmother used to put a silver dollar in the milk can 55 years ago after I had hand cranked the separator to get the cream from the cow I just milked so she could make butter.

Reply to  John F. Hultquist
March 12, 2020 12:01 pm

Surface (& aerosol) duration report free full text is available on-line, titled:
“Aerosol and surface stabiliy of HCoV-19 (SARS-CoV-19) compared to SARS-CoV-1”.

The half life of “Wuhan” corona-virus is detailed, as well as the maximum time found viable. There is also information of the viral titer (counts) change over time.

The reason copper surfaces do not allow viruses to survive long contact is that copper material is not pure elemental copper. The copper material is copper II (two) & not solid; there are angstroms of distance between the copper atoms in configuration (I think the copper in copper sheets’ array is tetragonal).

Viral capsids can array with that scale of angstroms between copper II & bind to some copper. The result is that copper denaturalizes protein(s) of the viral capsid & subsequently the virus loses integrity, leading to destructive loss of interior molecules.

Reply to  John F. Hultquist
March 12, 2020 12:22 pm

It was also said temperatures above 80 degrees F. kill the virus. American Natives used “Sweat Lodges” and both Saunas and Heated Jacuzzis or baths in as hot of water as you can comfortably take it, for as long as you can will raise your core temperature enough to kill it. Drinking warm fluids helps like tea or coffee or just water will kill it. Jethro Kloss “Back to Eden” had a section on steam saunas for curing people of many things, that he wrote in the early 1900s.

Alan D. McIntire
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
March 13, 2020 7:52 am

I get the impression that there are different strains of the virus; some weaker. some more virulent,
With the Jenner cow pox/smallpox discovery, I’d think it would be a good idea for young healthy people to hang around people with mild infections, in hopes of being protected against the more virulent strains,

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
March 14, 2020 5:26 am

If you want to know about the antimicrobial and antiviral properties of copper, I would recommend ignoring people who have no idea what they are talking about, say things that are patently false but sound sciency and jargony, and in general are wrong.

Copper II refers copper oxides or copper sulfate.
Copper II compounds are very definitely solids, when they form a surface coating of an oxide.
Copper sheeting is almost pure elemental copper and is antimicrobial, but since it quickly oxidizes and is rather soft, it is generally not used for industrial or medical antimicrobial touch surfaces.
It’s structure is face-centered cubic.
Pure copper does not make a good doorknob, for example, but it does act much faster to kill viruses and bacteria than alloys.

Instead, alloys like brass, bronze, Muntz metal, etc, are used.
The full details of the reasons for the antimicrobial properties are not completely understood and are very much a subject of ongoing inquiry, but it is well known that there are many mechanisms of such action, and that nearly every compound containing a proportion of copper has these properties, and that it is true for metallic surfaces & ionic forms in solution, that it kills a wide range of types of microorganisms from viruses to bacteria and fungi and many more, and that the property is a general one of a variety of related metals, such as mercury, lead, zinc, silver, and even iron, gold, aluminum and others.
The oligodynamic effect is a well-known property of metals, and refers to general biocidal activity.
Copper sulfate is a much used algicide, fungicide, and bactericide, but the current interest is in the action of metallic copper used as surfaces that are frequently touched.
Metal surfaces in general act as catalysts for chemical reactions, lowering the activation energy of a wide range of reaction types. This effect is exploited in catalytic converters and many other industrial applications.
The particular lattice structure or spacing is not what is important, it is the atomic structure of the metals themselves. Copper, for example, binds to amino groups in the monomer sub-units of proteins (denaturalizing is a bad thing, but this has nothing to do with international immigration), disrupting the structure of proteins by causing them to unfold or refold in a way which renders them non-functional. This is called denaturing.
But there is a lot more going on than that.
That would never explain how brass surfaces kill pathogenic bacteria, spores, eukaryotic and prokaryotic cells, fungi, molds, worms,etc.
Among the mechanisms are such processes as causing oxidation-reduction reactions, free radical formation, binding with lipid and protein molecules, entering cells and causing oxidative damage, and disrupting membrane structure and integrity, causing dissication, loss of structural integrity, and leakage of the contents of the cell.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
March 15, 2020 10:17 pm

Stainless steel does not have antimicrobial properties because it is made to be very non-reactive, hence “stainless”.
Even after is is alloyed, it is then passivated even further, thus insuring an even greater degree of unreactivity than the basic alloy would otherwise have.

March 12, 2020 8:38 am

Does this mean no more Climate Change conferences?

Reply to  Susan
March 12, 2020 3:10 pm

They won’t need CC conferences anymore Susan, this corona virus is doing the intended job much faster.

March 12, 2020 8:46 am

Maybe a trial-run to see the affects of a compulsory world-wide green new-deal. Conceived and sponsored by the marxists w/the virus engineered & released by the Chi-coms.

Just musing…..

March 12, 2020 8:53 am

PTS Advance is a headhunter. What does this guy know about energy? Not much. How much sense does this article make? Not much.

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
March 12, 2020 9:08 am

Our future existence may be less vacations and less business conferences. Reductions in the usage of the entertainment and hospitality industries, neither of which existed before fossil fuels, may also be necessitated.

Incorrect. People have been traveling for vacations, staying in hotels and eating in restaurants for as long as we have written records. They do it a lot more now of course, but it’s absolutely wrong to claim the hospitality industry did not exist before fossil fuels.

As we weed ourselves from oil, we’ll need to lower our demands for transportation infrastructures that COVID-19 has shown us the way.

Good luck with that.

Given modern communications, some portion of business travel can be replaced. Guess what: businesses already do that for cost reasons.

Vacation travel is less replaceable — you can’t get the same value by other means. Short term it will take a hit, but the simple fact is people like a change of scenery on occasion.

But give up transporting goods? Not going to happen.

So no Ronald the virus does not give us any practical insight on achieving the stated “goal” of reducing fossil fuel use, which is going to increase regardless.

Paul Penrose
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
March 12, 2020 10:16 am

Correct. And keep in mind that (at least in developed nations) most jobs today are much more mentally taxing. This requires a greater percentage of leisure time away from work to maintain good mental and emotional health. I tend to agree with Autograph: “For every minute I have to work, I need a minute of play.”

Reply to  Paul Penrose
March 13, 2020 7:38 am

most jobs today are much more mentally taxing

Incessant paperwork can do that. Sometimes plowing a field or digging a ditch would be preferable/more rewarding.

paul courtney
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
March 12, 2020 11:14 am

Alan Watt: I thought the same. A couple of his points are obviously wrong and show a complete lack of research, very lazily written. Just one item- a piece of the “hospitality industry” is also known as the oldest profession! He writes like an academic who knows the answer ahead of time, “humans use too much”, and he’s cherry-picking items that confirm his answer. Makes him appear to be really smart, without all that damn research. The editor in his head should have seen the problem with a phrase like “Corona virus shows us the way.” We know very little about it, but we know enough to realize that it shows us a way NOT to go. Glad I read it though, now I’ll use the gimlet eye when I see CFACT, whatever that is.

Reply to  paul courtney
March 12, 2020 12:41 pm

“Corona virus shows us the way.”

So does Greta. !

March 12, 2020 9:13 am

Just In hot off the press: PM Justin Trudeau’s wife just returned from London and is exhibiting signs of the COVID-19 virus, and both will begin a self quarantine working his Prime Minister job from home. I am not kidding..just heard it on the Bloomberg Business Channel. Not sure if they did the test to confirm, but all the same symptoms.

Reply to  Earthling2
March 12, 2020 9:59 am

Hope she did didn’t give Justin a big kiss on arrival at the airport.

Me be bg
Reply to  beng135
March 12, 2020 9:53 pm

Justin shook hands at airport landing. Children have immunity.

James F. Evans
March 12, 2020 9:40 am

The author’s message: this is what it could look like in either a “Green New Deal” economy or a so-called “peak oil” economy.

A “Green New Deal” economy would be self-inflicted.

So-called “peak oil” is contradicted by geophysical science.

The world is awash in oil.

And that doesn’t look to change for a long time… over 30 years.

Steve Z
March 12, 2020 9:40 am

Whatever restrictions may be imposed on society until the COVID-19 virus is contained will not have nearly as much impact as an effort to ban fossil fuels in the name of combatting “global warming”. Right now, governments are trying to cut down on international travel to prevent the spread of COVID-19 from places where there are many cases to those where there are few cases, which has obviously hurt the airline and tourism industries, but the fossil fuels needed for necessary transport (such as between people’s homes and jobs) are still available. Even if the virus spreads and more people need hospital care, no one would consider restricting the supply of electric power to hospitals to worry about what the climate might be like in 100 years while people need urgent medical care.

Yes, stock markets around the world are tanking, because investors in major companies are facing an uncertain future, and nobody knows right now how long this will last, while some epidemiologists are fearing exponential growth in numbers of people affected by COVID-19, which currently has a death rate of about 3 to 4%.

But what do we know about this virus? It has an incubation period of about two weeks, it can be deadly to elderly people with weakened immune systems, it doesn’t seem to affect young people, and some people diagnosed as positive have recovered. Right now there are a little over 1,000 known cases in the USA in a population of 330 million, meaning less than four people are affected per million people in the USA, and of those, 96% or so will survive the illness. The virus also is more contagious in cold weather than in warm weather, so that it may not be as virulent in spring as in winter.

Since there is currently no vaccine or known antidote, we want to restrict the spread of this virus as much as possible now, but what will happen in the next few months? If it continues exponential growth, the restrictions will remain in place, but if some months in the future the number of cases levels off or starts dropping, and many people who had been tested positive recover and are not contagious, people will want to get back to “life as usual”, and the restrictions will be lifted. Fossil fuels will then be available for those who want to use their energy for life as usual, and the stock markets will likely rise to their levels prior to the spread of this virus.

With COVID-19, we could expect a few months of hardship, followed by a return to normalcy. If a nation imposed the Green New Deal or something similar on itself, its people would be looking at decades of suffering and poverty, with the promise of nothing but slightly colder weather.

March 12, 2020 9:45 am

Remdesivir and chloroquine seem to be working, the us armed forces has taken a order to of Remdesivir to cover its service members if they feel unwell.

China and korea have been using the drugs and some reports I read state that the drugs work… I wrote on another post, that the us armed forces wouldn’t take such a risk on remdesivir if it didn’t work? Also the first american to get cov19 was treated with remdesivir and he recovered, and is still alive and well..

James F. Evans
Reply to  Sunny
March 12, 2020 10:17 am

There are also reports out of China & South Korea that vitamin C therapy has a positive effect.

Of course, it’s well known that vitamin C has antiviral properties.

Take your vitamin C and concentrate on making your immune system work at top optimal level.

Reply to  James F. Evans
March 12, 2020 12:23 pm

Also if you smile then quit now. If out of shape then get in shape. The fact that the young are not being affected by this virus speaks volumes to how overall health helps a person against virus.

Reply to  Stevek
March 12, 2020 2:02 pm

Meant if you smoke lol

Reply to  Stevek
March 12, 2020 3:38 pm

I thought maybe the viruses would sneak in through a smile.

nw sage
Reply to  Stevek
March 12, 2020 9:04 pm

I already did quit (smoking!). I decided that I’m going to quit sometime – it might just as well be before I die!

Reply to  James F. Evans
March 12, 2020 4:47 pm

I’m looking for zinc acetate lozenges, and two places I’ve found that sell them are out of stock. I wonder if that’s a seasonal thing or a WuFlu thing

Paul Penrose
Reply to  Sunny
March 12, 2020 10:22 am

“Also the first american to get cov19 was treated with remdesivir and he recovered, and is still alive and well..”

And so are tens of thousands of others that didn’t take it. You can’t conclude anything based on a sample of one. You will need a lot more data from a controlled blind study that has thousands in both groups before you can conclude anything about the effectiveness of any treatment/drug.

Reply to  Paul Penrose
March 12, 2020 12:51 pm

True. That person may have gotten better in spite of the toxic drug he was given.

Reply to  icisil
March 12, 2020 2:36 pm

Someone had mentioned liver damage from remdesivir, but I’ve seen no cited research indicating that this is observed. Human safety data exists and researchers suggest that its benefits can outweigh any harm. There are several positive reports, including this study dealing with MERS infected rhesus loydo macaques.

March 12, 2020 9:59 am

Ah, alarmists are estatic people are dying, aren’t they? Saves them from destroying the human parasite. Vile, contempible creatures. Of course, a whole bunch of these people will be sick, dead or employed, but it’s what they want…..

Wait until no one maintains cell service or internet. THEN tell those millienials this is what Crazy Joe and Uncle Bernie want for them.

Joel O'Bryan
March 12, 2020 10:40 am

A lot of travel today is un-necessary meetings that can be conducted electronically, with high definition video and rich audio. The author here completely fails to mention the internet and all the things that are now possible remotely. Even remotely controlled robotics in clinical settings. Medical consultations via videoconference.

And the bright-side is all those ridiculous UNFCCC-COP and IPCC meetings, their pre-meetings, and pre-planning meetings, pre-pre-planning meetings need to go. Gone. Preferably along with the UNFCCC nonsense, but at least putting all those meetings via videoconference will eliminate the many thousands of rentseekers taking boondoggle vacation to Tahiti and Paris on OPM. We’ll see how popular it is to be on an IPCC AR chapter panel when most of meetings to exotic locations are eliminated and pushed to the internet.

Me be bg
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
March 12, 2020 10:08 pm

Zoom enterprise teleconferencing is used worldwide and in China also.(symbol ZM). Full disclosure: I own a few shares.

March 12, 2020 10:56 am

I Graduated from HS in 1960. In a graduating class of over 200, there were only two seniors that had a vehicle to drive to school daily and a few others that had access for occasional school use. In one class we did a count of families with more than one car. And, NO this was not New York City were few people owned a car. In this class of over 30 there was only one student that indicated their direct family had more than one car. Today, more than half of the sports complex area we had back then is now a parking lot for kids driving to school.

Smart Rock
March 12, 2020 11:02 am

In the 1800’s most people never traveled 100-200 miles from where they were born. Life expectancy throughout Europe hovered between 20 and 30 years of age

According to Wiki, which is more or less consistent with histories I’ve read, European (and North American) life expectancy was steady at about 35 years from 1500 to about 1850, until modern health care started to develop. It reached about 45 years by 1900, and has of course increased steadily since then.

Ronald also seems to think the industrial revolution started in about 1900, and seems to be unaware of the role of coal in industrial-scale iron smelting (1709), dewatering underground coal mines (1712), powering factories (1775), rail transportation (1825), steamships capable of crossing the Atlantic under their own power (1843) and phenol – the first antiseptic – (1860).

As for not travelling far from home, he might want to consider the hundreds of thousands of European immigrants who not only crossed the ocean to his own country, but crossed the colossal width of that country by wagon train, their numbers exploding after the transcontinental railroad was built (1869).

Rant away against the stupidity, feel free. But try and get your history straight; it’s a requirement for those of us trying to claim the moral and intellectual high ground.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Smart Rock
March 15, 2020 10:24 pm

+ a whole big bunch

Vincent Causey
March 12, 2020 11:14 am

I thought this article was a parody at first, but now I see he is actually serious.

Steven Curtis Lohr
March 12, 2020 11:48 am

Don’t just do something, stand there! As I see it, without the wonderful firehose of “information” many of the people who got this disease would have done their usual self medication, maybe take off work, and been about their own life unconcerned, and with normal amounts of toilet paper in the house. That didn’t happen so here we go with as many things as we can think of to stop the disease. Well that train left the station and the only way out is for community immunity to save the day. That will require either many people becoming ill or widespread vaccination. Both will be accomplished to some degree within 12 months. The world will renew itself and we will go back to our normal lives driving and visiting and working and probably getting sick yet again during the next flu season . No, this isn’t the end of the world as we know it. Oh, and thanks Smart Rock for setting the history straight, we needed that.

Krishna Gans
March 12, 2020 12:05 pm

What the climate scietists are not able to think abou in concern of COP xy, the UEFA, Union of European Football (soccer) Associations is able to do,:
They iinvite to a video conference to discuss the further proceeding in European football and the dfent championhips under the regime of Corona.

Michael Carter
March 12, 2020 12:41 pm

Should this outbreak be within another species in a natural environment we would consider it normal, essential and healthy: nature doing its culling

If it were not for this process of natural selection that drives evolution we would not be here today. The day that humans gain full control over this process is the point at which we are in big trouble

I am glad that we still have challenges without remedies. Besides, I find this event the most interesting in my relatively long lifetime. I dose of reality in our plastic lifestyles. It also lays bare the fickle power of the financial and political institutions that rule our lives. One sneeze and they fold

The ‘enemy’ is big Mumma

son of mulder
March 12, 2020 1:07 pm

Coronavirus is mutating, similar to the common cold. Don’t put too much hope on a vaccine.

March 12, 2020 2:02 pm

As we weed ourselves away from fossil fuels, we’ll need to accept that many developing countries like many in China, India, and Africa that are still stuck in the pre-1900’s era that have yet to join the industrial revolution and the opportunity to enjoy the thousands of products in our daily lifestyles, may never do so as the fuels that support the demands of the various transportation infrastructures will be diminishing.

Developing countries will most likely be given a pass to use fossil fuels in order to catch up ‘standard of living wise’ to developed nations on their way down. Ive read enough about this issue to conclude that this is in fact, by design.

March 12, 2020 2:25 pm

While everyone improves their conservation and efficient use of energy, it may be timely to begin weeding ourselves away from the transportation infrastructures, and the leisure and entertainment industries to the best of their abilities to conserve oil for where its most needed for society, to make the thousands of products that support lifestyles as well as worldwide sustainable economic development.

What this is really saying is that low and middle income people will be hearded into high-density cites in wooden fire-trap sky rises with very little, living basic short lives, under 24/7/365 total surveillance and unarmed. Why? So that the important rich people can enjoy their vast wealth without having to deal with us average vermin who just aren’t as smart and important as these rich people. The rich people need to be able to travel easily, us average vermin are currently in their way and are consuming too many resources. Imagine having billions of dollars but can’t use it to buy much because there isn’t enough resources to build cool things the rich want.

By the way, anybody think rich people would be living simple, basic lives among us average people in the future sustainable world? Of course not. They will be living in the country, in sprawling mansions while we are caged up in mega-hell-hole cities.

My money thinks its possible this entire global warming, resource depletion concern has been concocted mainly by rich people and rich foundations (Rockefeller comes to mind). I think they use their vast wealth to fund many, if not most of the science studies that technocrats then use as policy guides to vastly lower our lifestyle and freedoms.

March 12, 2020 4:53 pm

Data from the Diamond Princess cruise suggests that COVID-19 is a relatively benign disease for most young people and not as deadly as we think.

Here are excerpts from an article by Jeremy Samuel Faust entitled COVID-19 Isn’t As Deadly As We Think.

“The most straightforward and compelling evidence that the true case fatality rate of SARS-CoV-2 is well under 1 percent comes not from statistical trends and methodological massage, but from data from the Diamond Princess cruise…

“A quarantined boat is an ideal—if unfortunate—natural laboratory to study a virus.

“In China, 9 million people die per year, which comes out to 25,000 people every single day, or around 1.5 million people over the past two months alone. A significant fraction of these deaths results from diseases like emphysema/COPD, lower respiratory infections, and cancers of the lung and airway whose symptoms are clinically indistinguishable from the nonspecific symptoms seen in severe COVID-19 cases.

“During the peak of the outbreak in China in January and early February, around 25 patients per day were dying with SARS-CoV-2. Most were older patients in whom the chronic diseases listed above are prevalent. Most deaths occurred in Hubei province, an area in which lung cancer and emphysema/COPD are significantly higher than national averages in China, a country where half of all men smoke.

“This is where the Diamond Princess data provides important insight. Of the 3,711 people on board, at least 705 have tested positive for the virus (which, considering the confines, conditions, and how contagious this virus appears to be, is surprisingly low).

“On the Diamond Princess, six deaths have occurred among the passengers, constituting a case fatality rate of 0.85 percent…. The most important insight is that all six fatalities occurred in patients who are more than 70 years old. Not a single Diamond Princess patient under age 70 has died.

“(In other words) The true case fatality rate, known as CFR, of this virus is likely to be far lower than current reports suggest. Even some lower estimates, such as the 1 percent death rate recently mentioned by the directors of the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, likely substantially overstate the case.

“In the early days of the crisis in Wuhan, China, the CFR was more than 4 percent. As the virus spread to other parts of Hubei, the number fell to 2 percent. As it spread through China, the reported CFR dropped further, to 0.2 to 0.4 percent. As testing begins to include more asymptomatic and mild cases, more realistic numbers are starting to surface. New reports from the World Health Organization that estimate the global death rate of COVID-19 to be 3.4 percent, higher than previously believed, is not cause for further panic.

“… another thing that’s worth remembering: These patients (on the Diamond Princess) were likely exposed repeatedly to concentrated viral loads (which can cause worse illness). Some treatments were delayed. So even the lower CFR found on the Diamond Princess could have been even lower, with proper protocols. It’s also worth noting that … many patients with chronic illnesses go on cruises.

“This all suggests that COVID-19 is a relatively benign disease for most young people, and a potentially devastating one for the old and chronically ill, albeit not nearly as risky as reported.”

Nils Nilsen
Reply to  richard
March 13, 2020 6:19 am

An even better way of calculating risk that bypasses the uncertainty of how many have been affected, how many will get serious symptoms and how deadly the virus is for the affected is total death rate pr inhabitant. With this calculation China has 2.15 pr million. A normal flu death rate is between 100 and 300 per million so the flu is 100 times as dangerous and we accept that every year.

March 12, 2020 5:56 pm

From what I can glean, the virus is not any more deadly than any other flu.
The problem is that the spread is so rapid that it is overwhelming acute care capacity in Italy.
Vulnerable people are not getting respiratory care , resulting in death.

Howard Dewhirst
March 12, 2020 11:29 pm

It is worth pointing out that it is only the western world that is ‘feverously trying to reduce emissions from fossil fuel usage’. China and India are just as feverishly increasing theirs to take up the manufacturing momentum that has been and is being sacrificed by the west.

Nils Nilsen
Reply to  Howard Dewhirst
March 13, 2020 6:21 am

An even better way of calculating risk that bypasses the uncertainty of how many have been affected, how many will get serious symptoms and how deadly the virus is for the affected is total death rate pr inhabitant. With this calculation China has 2.15 pr million. A normal flu death rate is between 100 and 300 per million so the flu is 100 times as dangerous and we accept that every year.

Nick Hill
March 13, 2020 1:30 am

I’ve heard about the theory of an abiotic origin for oil. Where is your claim best substantiated? I think Russia have used the idea to successfully discover and drill new wells, have they not?

March 13, 2020 2:36 am

“…The inventions of the automobile, airplane, and the use of petroleum in the early 1900’s led us into the Industrial Revolution…”

There was me thinking the industrial revolution began in the late eighteenth century…

March 13, 2020 2:55 am

Perhaps he meant “weening”, instead of “weeding”?

It just shows how ignorant he is that he made that mistake 3 times.

Doug Huffman
March 13, 2020 4:17 am

CoViD-19 is a symptom of Mass Hysteria.

March 13, 2020 8:46 am

Covid 19 (aka “the media virus”) shows life based on ignorance, fear and stupidity. It leads to life in a prehistoric mentality, no connection to reality, where any scary story drove people to suicide and insanity. I really don’t see any connection to life without fossil fuels, except that fear of CO2 is one of the current ways to try and destroy society. It’s about fear and superstition, lies and harm. A return to the Dark Ages. And it’s definitely working. Idiots buy out TP and all kinds of stuff, like locust in a plague. There is zero thought in these people and there of more them than the rational type. All the cancelled seasons, etc.

The moron here that is the “infectious disease expert” cancelled a tournament because of Covid 19 (Wyoming has ONE case, 200 miles from the tournament) but won’t cancel schools. The fool thinks these kids have a protective bubble at school and at home or something magical. Also, obviously, none of their parents travel in the oil fields. So cancel a tournament and leave HUNDREDS of possible cases out there because you won’t cancel schools. This is an “expert”????? A witch doctor maybe, but scientist, NO.

If this continues, the people wanting a war are going to get it in the form of crazy panicked populations raiding and stealing (see Venezuela). Already, college students let out early “celebrated” by damaging cars and breaking windows. It will only get worsel The disease is nothing compared to what is to come from the panic. I only hope the media is the first target since it was their idea.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Sheri
March 13, 2020 9:33 pm

“Sheri March 13, 2020 at 8:46 am

Covid 19 (aka “the media virus”) shows life based on ignorance, fear and stupidity.”

Well said. Here in Australia people have gone mad for toilet paper. Organisations and authorities have shutdown events and gatherings. Sporting events are held but with no spectators or fans. The Melbourne F1 GP has been cancelled due to one case of an infection.

My manager has just informed everyone in her team that the company has now stated working from home is mandatory from Monday.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Patrick MJD
March 14, 2020 6:13 am

An entire multibillion dollar sports league called the NBA cancelled their entire season when one player tested positive for the virus, and he was not even having any symptoms.
Baseball and hockey soon followed suit.
When are they gonna start playing again if one person getting exposed caused the cancellation?
The only logical time would be if we have a cure, or if no more people have the virus anymore.
Which may well be never.
A vaccine may be found, or maybe not. In any case, anyone who thinks it will be within a year has no idea what they are talking about. There is no way health authorities in the US will sign off on abandoning over 100 years of accumulated wisdom about how to make sure a new drug is safe and effective.
Antivirals will be found to work, and some thing we already have will work for some people, but not for everyone, until much testing and research identifies a combination of drugs that will do so.
But given how hard it is to get people some to take any drug, let alone a vaccination for something they have not been exposed to yet, let alone the cost, some program of giving everyone a drug or vaccine is unlikely to happen right away even when such things are identified and tested and approved.
A year or two from now nearly everyone will likely have been exposed, and the virus may even be too variable over time, for something tested now to be much use in 18 months, even if it works.

March 13, 2020 9:31 am

Rare good news: COVID-19 should be treated with high amounts of intravenous vitamin C. Do a search for “Shanghai Government Officially Recommends Vitamin C for COVID-19” on Orthomolecular Medicine News Service. Intravenous, not oral.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Robert Bissett
March 14, 2020 6:26 am

This is what is called anecdotal information.
Worthless as a source of information on safety and efficacy.
It is already known that most people recover after a short period of illness.
Vitamin C has been studied extensively for decades, and only a small number of studies have ever showed any specific benefit, and only then for a certain population and only a small and limited effect on likelihood , severity, or duration of colds, and no effect when given after someone has a cold or the flu.

March 13, 2020 11:25 pm

I don’t understand how you’re seeing this life without fossil fuels as a negative. The toxic pollutants and greenhouse gasses produced by combustion reactions and the burning of fossil fuels are huge health risks for us and pose a huge threat to our environment. I recently wrote a blog about the positive impact quarantine is having on air pollution, if you’re interested on understanding the other side to this:
“Crude oil, natural gas, and coal changed – for the better – the lifestyles of every person living in developed countries such as, the U.S., Europe, Japan, South Korea, and Australia.” This is a two-sided statement. I would argue tha the greenhouse gas emissions and imminent threat of climate that has come from these advances has, in fact, worsened my quality of life. This is without even considering the displacement and loss of native title that the fossil fuel industry has caused in the developing world and in native communities within the developed world. Just look at the native land titles that the Adani mine is currently threatening.

Nicholas McGinley
March 14, 2020 6:01 am

“As we weed ourselves from oil, we’ll need to lower our demands for transportation infrastructures that COVID-19 has shown us the way.

As we weed ourselves away from fossil fuels, we’ll need to accept that many developing countries like many in China, India, and Africa that are still stuck in the pre-1900’s era that have yet to join the industrial revolution and the opportunity to enjoy the thousands of products in our daily lifestyles, may never do so as the fuels that support the demands of the various transportation infrastructures will be diminishing.”

Weed ourselves?
This is obviously not a correct usage, and I would think it a typo, except it appears twice in a row is virtually identical usage.
This makes me wince, much as I do when I hear someone saying something like “The point is mute.”
I would say more, but I am trying to ween myself off of being overly critical.
Besides, I make a lot of typos myself…but the same word twice…?

Anyway, the sentence makes no sense, even without that error.
In fact, it is so incredibly awkward of a sentence I found myself reading it over and over again searching for some kernel of a coherent thought.
But no luck.
All indications are that our need for transportation has nothing to do with our preferred sources of energy.
It has to do with our need to get people and materials from one place to another.
If we stop using oil, we will either need to power motor vehicles with something other than gasoline or diesel, or we will need a entirely new infrastructure, or at least more of certain other ones besides roadways and gas stations and such.

And what COVID-19 is showing me personally is that when our travel and transportation is disrupted, our economy goes into a rapid and catastrophic tailspin.
If we want to know what not having fossil fuels will be like, without having something that can replace them completely and 100 percent reliably, just turn off all the power plants and end all the shipping.
Right now supply shock is adding to the instant loss of economic stability.
Without transportation of goods over long distances, all critical materials will need to be made locally for every population center.
We do not have any hardly any factories that make pharmaceutical anymore, and even if we can quickly build them, we get our raw materials and precursors from other places as well.
Economic productivity relies on having large amounts of a gigantic number of materials and products always on hand wherever they are needed, and there are a large number of materials and products that are absolutely critical to not just our lifestyles, but our very lives, as we now understand them.

One point the author made was to say that “Life expectancy throughout Europe hovered between 20 and 30 years of age.”
But this is not an accurate statement. Those numbers represented an average life expectancy AT BIRTH.
It was not a limit on how long people could and did live, or what the maximum age was, but a measure of how many people died young, at birth, or at any random age from a wide variety of harms, not the least of which was infectious diseases.
To me, what this outbreak does is demonstrate very vividly how utterly insane climate alarmists are, how unscientific people on the left are, how idiotic anyone who buys into their narratives is, and how even many of the people who seem to be on the right side of some issues are probably right for the wrong reasons, given how amazingly irrational they are on other issues.

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