Gavin’s Falsifiable Science

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Gavin Schmidt is a computer programmer with the Goddard Institute of Space Sciences (GISS) and a noted climate alarmist. He has a Ph.D. in applied mathematics. He’s put together a twitter thread containing what he sees as some important points of the “testable, falsifiable science that supports a human cause of recent trends in global mean temperature”. He says that the slight ongoing rise in temperature is due to the increase in carbon dioxide (CO2) and other so-called “greenhouse gases”. For simplicity, I’ll call this the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory of climate. We’ve discussed Dr. Schmidt’s ideas before here on WUWT.

Now, Gavin and I have a bit of history. We first started corresponding by way of a climate mailing list moderated by Timo Hameraanta back around the turn of the century, before Facebook and Twitter.

The interesting part of our interaction was what convinced me that he was a lousy programmer. I asked him about his program, the GISS Global Climate Model. I was interested in how his model made sure that energy was conserved. I asked what happened at the end of each model timestep to verify that energy was neither created nor destroyed.

He said what I knew from my own experience in writing iterative models, that there is always some slight imbalance in energy from the beginning to the end of the timestep. If nothing else, the discrete digital nature of each calculation assures that there with be slight roundoff errors. If these are left uncorrected they can easily accumulate and bring the model down.

He said the way that the GISS model handled that imbalance was to take the excess or the shortage of energy and sprinkle it evenly over the entire planet.

Now, that seemed perfectly reasonable for trivial amounts of imbalance coming from digitization. But what if it were larger, and it arose from some problem with their calculations? What then?

So I asked him how large that energy imbalance typically was … and to my astonishment, he said he didn’t know.

Amazed, I asked if he had some computer version of a “Murphy Gauge” on the excess energy. A “Murphy Gauge” (below) is a gauge that allows for Murphy’s Law by letting you set an alarm if the variable goes outside of the expected range … which of course it will—Murphy says so. On the computer, the equivalent would be something in his model that would warn him if the excess or shortage of energy exceeded some set amount.

Nope. Not only did he have no Murphy Gauge set, but he also had no idea how far the model went off the rails regarding the conservation of energy, either on average or in individual timesteps. He just pushed it back into balance with each timestep, turned his back, and kept rolling.

At that point, I concluded that Gavin was far from suspicious enough of his model. Me, I wrote my first computer program in 1963, about the time that Gavin was born. And I don’t trust computer models one bit. They’ll bite the hand that feeds them at the slightest opportunity even if you fence them in with Murphy Gauges … and Gavin didn’t understand that basic problem.

This is particularly an issue with what are called “iterative” models. These are models that go step by step through time, with the output of each timestep being the input to the next timestep. Errors tend to accumulate in such models, so it’s very easy for them to spiral out of control … and climate models are all iterative models. Here’s a large number of runs from an iterative climate model.

Figure 1. 2,017 climate model runs from climateprediction.net. 

Figure 1 (b), the lower of the two graphs, shows the change in temperature. Note how during the “control phase”, when there is no change in the inputs, even a small ongoing drop in temperature can lead to the model spiraling down to the “Snowball Earth” off the bottom of the graph, as shown in the control phase of the modeled temperature in Figure 1 (a). 

So I’m suspicious as can be of all of the modern iterative climate models. They are all tuned to hindcast the past … but the climate sensitivities in all of them are different. How can that be? Well … it can’t. It means that they’re just making it up. I discussed this problem here, it’s a big one.

Next, let me make a heel turn to set the stage with an overview of the recent changes in climate. Back in Medieval times, around 1000 or so, the surface temperature was as warm or perhaps even warmer than it is today. But then the earth cooled and went into what is called the “Little Ice Age”. This was a hard time for plants, animals, and us humanoids alike. Shorter growing seasons, frozen rivers and harbors, crop failures. No bueno.

Why were the Medieval times so warm? We don’t know. Why did the temperatures drop down to the cold Little Ice Age? We don’t know. Why did temperatures stop dropping around 1700 and not 1400 or 1800? We don’t know.

After that very cold time, temperatures started rising again. And since about the year 1700 or so, temperatures have been rising, in fits or starts, at about a half a degree per century for the last two-plus centuries.

Why didn’t the temperature continue to cool after the Little Ice Age and put us into a glaciation? We don’t know. Why did it start to warm at the end of the Little Ice Age, rather than simply staying cold? We don’t know. Why did it start to warm around 1700 or so, rather than in 1900? We don’t know. Why have we seen slow warming since the Little Ice Age? We don’t know.

As you can see, although we know a lot about the climate … we also don’t know a lot about the climate.

In any case, with that as prologue, here is Gavin’s “falsifiable science” tweet. Bear in mind that I’m not saying he’s wrong because he is a careless programmer. That’s a separate question. I’m saying he’s wrong because he’s conflating three very different theories and treating them as one. Here’s his tweet.


We develop theories.
1) Radiative-transfer (e.g. Manabe and Wetherald, 1967)
2) Energy-balance models (Budyko 1961 and many subsequent papers)
3) GCMs (Phillips 1956, Hansen et al 1983, CMIP etc.)

We make falsifiable predictions. Here are just a few:
1967: increasing CO2 will cause the stratosphere to cool
1981: increasing CO2 will cause warming at surface to be detectable by 1990s
1988: warming from increasing GHGs will lead to increases in ocean heat content

1991: Eruption of Pinatubo will lead to ~2-3 yrs of cooling
2001: Increases in GHGs will be detectable in space-based spectra
2004: Increases in GHGs will lead to continued warming at ~0.18ºC/decade.

We test the predictions:
Stratospheric cooling? ✅
Detectable warming? ✅
OHC increase?✅
Pinatubo-related cooling?✅
Space-based changes in IR absorption? ✅
post-2004 continued warming?✅


Let me start by saying that Gavin is badly conflating three very separate and distinct theories.

  • Theory 1) Increasing CO2 increases atmospheric absorption, which affects the overall temperature of the various layers of the atmosphere, and increases downwelling so-called “greenhouse” radiation.
  • Theory 2) In the short term, large changes in downwelling radiation change the surface temperature.
  • Theory 3) In the long term, small continuing increases in downwelling radiation lead to corresponding small continuing increases in global surface temperature.

Here the spoiler alert: I think that the first two of these are true (with caveats), but we have virtually no evidence that the third one is either true or untrue.

So let’s go through his six lines of evidence, consider which theory he’s actually discussing, and see if they stands up to critical examination.

a) Increasing CO2 will cause the stratosphere to cool. This is obviously evidence in support of theory 1. Here’s the record of stratospheric temperatures, from the Microwave Sounding Units on a succession of satellites.

Figure 2. Global stratospheric temperatures measured from space.

As you can see, although the stratospheric temperature has indeed dropped, the drop has been quite complex. The two peaks in the record are from the volcanoes noted in the graph. After each one, the stratosphere has warmed for about five years. Each time it seems to have stabilized at a lower temperature. There has been a slight drop since the second eruption. It’s likely that this is from the changes noted in Theory 1, although that is far from clear.

b) Increasing CO2 will cause warming at surface to be detectable by 1990s. This is supposed to be evidence in support of Theory 3. However, while this is true, the temperature has been rising for a couple of hundred years. So unless you believe in Little Ice Age SUVs, this is not evidence in support of any part of the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory.

c) Warming from increasing GHGs will lead to increases in ocean heat content. Same as (b) immediately above, and the same objection. It’s supposed to be in support of Theory 3, but in a warming world, a warming ocean is expected and not probative of anything.

d) Eruption of Pinatubo will lead to ~2-3 yrs of cooling. This is evidence in support of Theory 2 … but then so is the surface warming up when the sun rises. We know that large transient changes in the amount of downwelling radiation (which is called “forcing” in climate science) will change the surface temperature.

However, the models didn’t do a very good job of predicting the size of the cooling. Here are some results which I discussed in a post ten years ago:

Figure 2. Comparison of annual predictions with annual observations. Upper panel is Figure 2(b) from the GISS prediction paper, lower is my emulation from digitized data. Note that prior to 1977 the modern version of the GISS temperature data diverges from the 1992 version of the temperature data. I have used an anomaly of 1990 = 0.35 for the modern GISS data in order to agree with the old GISS version at the start of the prediction period. All other data is as in the original GISS prediction. Pinatubo prediction (blue line) is an annual average of their Figure 3 monthly results.

Note that the Hansen/Schmidt GISS model predicted more than twice the drop from Pinatubo compared to the actual reality. It also predicted that the drop would last longer than what happened. I’ll return to this question in a bit, but for now, we’ll note that Theory 2 is true—short-term changes in forcing, whether daily, monthly, or from volcanoes, do change the temperature.

e) Increases in GHGs will be detectable in space-based spectra. With more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, we expect to see more infrared absorbed by the atmosphere. We’ve measured this change in a variety of ways. This is evidence in support of Theory 1.

f) Increases in GHGs will lead to continued warming at ~0.18ºC/decade. This is put up in support of Theory 3. However, it’s been warming for two or more centuries now, and this prediction in 2004 is nothing but the continuation of the prior thirty years of warming. Once again, the fact that it is still warming is not proof of anything.

To summarize:

Theories 1 and 2 are clearly true and are supported by a variety of evidence. Three of his six bullet points are evidence in support of those two theories.

The other three pieces of evidence are saying that after more than two centuries of slow warming … the warming is continuing. This says exactly nothing about Theory 3.

This is the continuing problem with the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory … it’s really three very separate theories in one, and while two of the theories are clearly true, there is very little evidence in support of the third leg of the stool. And the stool will not stand up with only two legs.

Gavin closes out his tweet with the following:

We can also look at the testable, falsifiable, theories that were tested, and failed.

Solar forcing? Fails the strat cooling test.

Ocean circulation change? Fails the OHC increase test

Orbital forcing? Fails on multiple levels

If you have a theory that you don’t think has been falsified, or you think you can falsify the mainstream conclusions, that’s great! We can test that too! (But lots of people have tried this already so expect there to be an answer already).

PS. Actually, it’s even a bit harder. Not only would you need to find a theory that does as well as the current theory, but you’d also need to show why the current theory isn’t operative.

Now, for folks unfamiliar with my work, I do have a theory. I also have a heap of evidence in support of it. But I’m not a climate skeptic—I’m a climate heretic, someone who denies their basic claim that changes in the temperature are a simple linear function of the changes in forcing.

Folks are interested in why the temperature of the planet changes over time. That’s at the center of modern climate science. My theory, on the other hand, arose from my being interested in a totally different question about climate—why is the temperature so stable? For example, over the 20th Century, the temperature only varied by ± 0.3°C. In the giant heat engine that is the climate, which is constantly using solar energy to circulate the oceans and the atmosphere, this is a variation of 0.1% … as someone who has dealt with a variety of heat engines, I can tell you that this is amazing stability. The system is ruled by nothing more solid than waves, wind, and water. So my question wasn’t why the climate changes as it does.

My question was, why is the climate so stable?

And my answer is, there are a host of what are called “emergent phenomena” that arise when local temperatures go above some local threshold. They include the timing and strength of the daily emergence of the cumulus cloud field in the tropics; the development of thunderstorms; the emergence of dust devils when temperatures get hot; the action of the El Nino/La Nina pump moving warm water to the poles; and various “oscillations” like the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.

These emergent phenomena arise out of nowhere, last for some length of time, and then disappear completely. And acting together, they all work to prevent both the overcooling and the overheating of the planet. And as mentioned above, I say that these phenomena acted to reduce the length and the depth of the effect of the Pinatubo volcano. See my post called “When Eruptions Don’t” for another look at how the climate system responds to a decrease in incoming solar energy due to volcanic eruptions.

I originally published this theory in the journal Energy and Environment. I followed that up with a posting of the same ideas here at Watts Up With That in a post called The Thermostat Hypothesis.

I have continued this quest by writing a number of posts over the last 20 years that have added observational evidence to the theory and explored its ramifications. These included “Emergent Climate Phenomena“, describing what emergence is and why it is so important; “The Details Are In The Devil“, explaining why the “climate sensitivity” type of analysis doesn’t work in a thermostatically controlled system; “Watching Thunderstorms Chase The Heat“, about how thunderstorms operate to cool only the warm parts of the tropical oceans; and most recently “Drying The Sky“, discussing the evolution of different stages in the tropical thermal regulation system.

In all, I’ve written some 40 or so posts exploring this theory of how the climate works. There’s an index to a number of them here, divided up by subject which covers up to January 2018 … hmm, I need to update the index. More recent posts of mine, not separated by subject, are listed here in reverse chronological order. [2021 update—my updated index to my work is now here.]

Now, I fear that my theory is of little interest to the climate establishment because they’re looking for headlines about THERMAGEDDON! CLIMATE EMERGENCY! My theory doesn’t have any of that, in fact, the opposite. My theory says that future warming is likely to be slow and small. So mostly, as with all good heretics, I’m shunned by the powers that be.

Let me close by saying that I have absolutely no academic qualifications at all. I took Physics 101 and Chemistry 101 in college. That’s it. 

Since then, however, I have followed my education by teaching myself a host of subjects. For example, I taught myself and have made money writing programs in the following computer languages—Basic, VBA, Mathematica (2 of 3), Hypertalk, Vectorscript, Pascal, C/C++, and R. I taught myself refrigeration so I could take a job constructing and installing a blast freezer on a boat … in Fiji. As that post discusses, that was instrumental in understanding how thunderstorms operate in exactly the same manner as your household refrigerator.

And to return to the current discussion, I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours researching and writing and learning about climate … all with zero certificates on my wall.

So please, don’t bother telling me that I’m an uneducated jerk or an ignorant fool. First, I already know that, and if I forget, my gorgeous ex-fiancee will gladly remind me … and second, that’s not the question. The question is absolutely not are my educational bona fides up to your high standards? That’s meaningless.

Nor is the question is Watts Up With That believable or not?  I say this because where something gets published is never the question. There are folks out there that truly seem to think that if E=MC^2 is written on the bathroom wall it’s not true because of where it was published.

The question, the only valid question in science, is are the claims true? Does my theory stand up to close inspection? Are my ideas backed, not by climate models, but by actual real-world observations? Can you find flaws in the logic, the data, the math, or any other part of what I’ve written?

I have great confidence in what I’ve written about my theory, for a simple reason. Watts Up With That is the premier spot on the web for public peer-review of scientific theories and ideas about climate. This doesn’t mean that it only publishes things known to be valid and true. Instead, it is a place to find out if what is published actually is valid and true. There are a lot of wicked-smart folks reading what I write, and plenty of them would love to find errors in my work.

So when those smart folks can’t find errors in what I’ve written, I know that I have a theory that at least stands a chance of becoming a mainstream view.

My best wishes to all,

w.

Post Scriptum: As is my custom, I politely ask that when you comment, you quote the exact words that you are referring to, so we can all be totally clear about both what and who you are discussing.

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Jeff Alberts
January 18, 2020 5:44 pm

” this is a variation of 0.1%”

Isn’t that the same as the variation in TSI? If so, why doesn’t that explain the stability?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 19, 2020 9:49 am

Thanks Willis.

I’m not sure that explanation does it for me, but I don’t have the skills to refute it. But, thanks.

Anton Eagle
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
January 22, 2020 9:29 pm

Here’s a simple thought experiment that might help clarify Willis’ second point.

Imagine a typical summer in some warm temperate climate. Now imagine a 1 week cold spell during that summer. On day 1 it’s maybe 5 degrees below the seasonal average, day 2 its 10 degrees cool, day 3 its 15 degrees cool, day 4, 5, 6, its 20 degrees cool. Then, it snaps back day 7 to just 10 degrees cool, and day 8 it’s back to average. I’ve seen plenty of weeks like this. On a degree-kelvin scale, that might represent a drop that is about 5% below normal. So, did the sun’s TSI drop by 5%? Of course not. Something else drove that weather change. So if a drop in TSI didn’t cause the cooling, why would we say that the stability in TSI caused the cool spell to end? TSI didn’t drive either (at least not completely).

Antero Ollila
January 18, 2020 6:08 pm

There are two studies about the dynamic temperature response in the Mt. Pinatubo eruption published by the loyal soldiers of the climate establishment. Hansen et al. applied GCMs by name SI94 and GRL92 in their simulations published in 1992. Soden et al. also applied a GCM in the research study published in 2002. They also included the absolute atmospheric water content as a variable. The major results were that the GCM simulations could calculate the dT values close to the measured value if the positive water feedback was included. The water content was calculated using the NASA Water Vapor Project (NVAP) values in a very odd way (=manipulated).

I have carried out the same simulation for the Mt. Pinatubo case, which was published as a research study and also as a blog story in WUWT: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/03/08/positive-water-feedback-not-found-in-the-mt-pinatubo-eruption/

I used two models in my study: 1) My own model with the climate sensitivity of 0.6 C and no positive water feedback, 2) the IPCC model with the climate sensitivity of 1.8 C and positive water feedback corresponding the models used by Soden et al. and Hansen et al. I could show that my model gave temperature response very close to the observed temperature change with maximum of 0.5 C decrease but the IPCC model gave a decrease of about 1.0 C.

So, there are research results that show very different results. What could be the reasons? The reasons are rather simple to point out. All other researchers including me have used maximal solar irradiation decrease value of -6 W/m2 but in these two studies, the researchers have used the value -4 W/m2. In the same way, other researchers have used the maximal deviation value of -0.5 C during the eruption but in these two studies, the value of -0.7 C has been used. Soden et al. have included the RH change during the eruption and they have been able to show that there is positive water feedback needed to explain the temperature decrease. Soden et al. manipulated the humidity change to be negative but actually there was no humidity change at all. In order to get the right results at least Soden et al. manipulated the input data because there were bold enough to shows their data choices.

rbabcock
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 19, 2020 6:41 am

Hawaii sits out in the middle of the largest heat sink on the planet, the Pacific Ocean. I wouldn’t have expected that much change in temperature over the relatively short period of time of a couple of years. Did you get a dataset from a reporting station or two in the middle of a continent and see the same results?

Additionally, if the ocean water was getting less energy it would cool, but since it is so vast the results wouldn’t be immediately seen and maybe not even measurable in the short term. Mixing with water beneath the surface is pretty constant and would mask it, imo. The Earth runs on geologic time, we run on human time. Big difference.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 19, 2020 9:51 am

“dropped by almost six degrees C in a few months”

Now THAT’S catastrophic! The place must have been covered in glaciers!

rbabcock
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 19, 2020 11:20 am

Actually the patterns of the two volcanoes look the same. A spike up, a spike down, a spike up and a final spike down. El Chichon is more pronounced in delta T. The volcanoes were different. Chichon was smaller than Pinatubo but put more sulfur into the air. That may contribute to the larger temperature swings.

If this is the temperatures from the observatory, it is at an elevation of 700 millibars which is above the daily influence of the surface layers and above the haze layer on most days. The measurements would be out of direct influence of the ocean especially under high pressure. Low pressure has a lot of lift and would have ocean influences, but typically high pressure dominates that part of the world most days.

Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 6:18 pm

“are my educational bona fides up to your high standards? That’s meaningless.”

Uh…no, if you were educated, you wouldn’t be wasting your time blogging on a web site dedicated to rejecting science.

[Hey, David, we don’t reject science, we don’t even reject CLIMATE science, we just think it’s oversold, much like you and your fake personas- Anthony]

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 7:12 pm

So what’s your CV?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 7:19 pm

Bhandari
You said, “… you wouldn’t be wasting your time blogging …” Why should we give any credence to your rantings?

Since you seem to be targeting Willis with your screeds, you may have missed something I wrote above. So, I’ll repeat it here:

“Willis
You stated the question, “… are my educational bona fides up to your high standards?” When a zealot demands one answer that question, it is a not-so-subtle “ad hominem” attack on the author, and avoids dealing with the facts and logic of the author’s stated position. Whatever “bona fides” one presents, the zealot can (and will) raise the bar and object that it doesn’t meet their standards, again avoiding the legitimate response of attacking the argument rather than the author. I don’t know how many times I have seen self-righteous defenders of the orthodoxy respond that way to a comment directed to a Yahoo ‘news’ article. It was even more common back in the days when I responded to articles posted on The Conversation blog. One Australian woman complained that she couldn’t find my digital presence on the internet. The problem was that most of what I have had published was either company proprietary, or classified, and typically written before Al Gore invented the internet! 🙂”

Steve Oregon
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 7:28 pm

Satyendra,
You are displaying the usual characteristics of a progressive who deliberately conflates as a means to avoid any scrutiny, analysis and collaboration which sways from the group think dictates you champion.
Your assertion that a “blog” cannot scientifically analyse, critique and collaborate as well as any peer review means is asinine. Or rather purposefully mendacious.
Gathering on a website to do so is no different than gathering at some hallowed institution of higher learning.
Better really because anyone from anywhere, with any applicable skill set, can contribute with any substance or query that may be helpful.
You’re clearly the type of ilk who would ban such discussion and speech on any campus or anywhere you could control.
Your kind is everywhere in every arena and always charges the same accusations in an attempt to omit challenge and prevent exposing your progressive ideas to scrutiny.
In short you are a horrible person.

John F. Hultquist
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 8:01 pm

…. dedicated to rejecting science

I’ve no idea what this statement is about. Please explain.

Richard Feynman admonished researchers to be skeptical in the manner of Wilhelm Röntgen – tried his damnedest to prove himself wrong. Your esteemed and peer reviewed “climate scientists” seem to be more in the mold of Pons & Fleischmann.

WUWT and other sites are doing the peer reviewing that “pal review” has shown to be useless. There has be 12 to 15 years of blog postings detailing such issues. Example: start at the beginning of Climate Audit and read it all.

Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 9:50 pm

S.B,

Your cult has been rejecting science for nearly 200 years.

Your cult’s hero is Fourier: a geothermal denier.

Charles Higley
January 18, 2020 6:24 pm

My question is regarding the very minimal IR absorption capability of CO2. Why do they think that such narrow absorption bands will do much of anything? The 400 and 800ºC absorption bands of CO2 will absorb incoming IR radiation but will immediately re-radiate the energy in random directions, thus short-stopping some solar insolation. CO2 is cooling the planet in this case.

Regarding outgoing IR radiation, the -80ºC absorption band will be busy as everything on the surface is hotter than that, but any re-radiated IR from CO2 toward the surface will be reflected upward to space, as the -80 energy levels of the surface are already full. CO2 is patently incapable of heating anything on Earth.

Reply to  Charles Higley
January 18, 2020 9:12 pm

Charles, there’s no such thing as a -80ºC absorption band, this is a faulty understanding of Wien’s Law which is constantly being brought up here. The only thing you got right in this post is that the earth is warmer than -80ºC (except near the south pole).

Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 6:50 pm

Willis, sitting at a keyboard, looking at a screen, and running Excel is not doing science. Maybe you should go out into the field and collect some real data, then analyze it, and publish is a science journal?

Steve Oregon
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 7:47 pm

Satyendra,
You’re being absurd and a jerk. Willis’s studies and analysis have spawned much more scrutiny, exploring and collaboration. His many posts have been very interesting with the comment input from countless people adding even more. Including the scientific content io
Your objection is unethical mudslinging.

Derg
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 8:14 pm

Like the IPCC, Mosher and Stokes…good suggestion.

Warren
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 8:15 pm

How about you analyse Willis E’s work then point out the error of his ways?
That’s what this forum is for.
And “Go out into the field” . . . try that yourself Mr ICCSIR office chair warmer.

Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 9:09 pm

Satyendra Bhandari –“sitting at a keyboard, looking at a screen, and running Excel is not doing science. ”
Neither are a string of ad hominems.
Lets see YOUR peer reviewed publications.
Lets see your original research.
Lets see your real name.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 9:38 pm

“Maybe you should go out into the field and collect some real data, then analyze it, and publish is a science journal?”

That’s funny. Mann didn’t go collect any field data. he bungled his way through stats (well, didn’t really bungle, he knew what he was fudging.)

Toto
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 18, 2020 11:07 pm

This one?
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Satyendra_Bhandari

(Not him, this David is a miserable long banned person, I have caught him several times in the last year, trying to use proxy servers to bomb a thread with his signature bilge, Anthony banned him a few years ago) SUNMOD

Hayata
Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 19, 2020 2:08 am

Satyendra says:
“Willis, sitting at a keyboard, looking at a screen, and running Excel is not doing science. Maybe you should go out into the field and collect some real data, then analyze it, and publish is a science journal?”

Thank you. He is much too fast and loose with the analysis.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Hayata
January 19, 2020 9:30 am

“Thank you. He is much too fast and loose with the analysis.”

You know, just saying something is so, doesn’t make it so.

Instead of making personal attacks on the author, you should point out where the author’s analysis is wrong. Demonstrate how it is “fast and loose”.

That’s what WUWT is here for: Somebody makes a claim, and then the commenters take that claim to task to see if it holds up or not. Your claim doesn’t hold up. You need to up your game. Tell us how Willis’ analysis is wrong. You imply you know.

In the normal course of things, alarmists just usually attack the messenger instead of the message. That would be because they are not capable of attacking the message because there is no evidence to back up their CAGW position. So they carp at the people who point this out.

Reply to  Satyendra Bhandari
January 20, 2020 11:23 am

Fake name, fake email, fake IP address, fake ideas. Once again, David “Satyendra Bhandari” is BANNED!!

What a jerk, and I mean that sincerely.

Geo Rubik
January 18, 2020 6:51 pm

Do we know how stable the climates are on other planets near us? Not hyperbole, I’m just too dumb to know if we know the answer. All we know of any planet is from observation, we just have a bit more insight of this one we live on. Although not much, just a couple hundred years of looking with record keeping and hypothesizing compared to the many billions years age of the Earth. It seems we still can’t get it right despite our vast knowledge and technology. We still guess at what’s happened and what’s going to happen to the Earth and most of the time we are wrong (wait a few years the hypothesis will change). Yet we still say how learned we are. The arrogance of man knows no bounds. Still I’m just a dumb worker bee, don’t listen to me.

RoHa
January 18, 2020 7:04 pm

“So mostly, as with all good heretics, I’m shunned by the powers that be.”

Piffle! Merely being shunned shows that you are just a mediocre heretic. A good heretic gets burned at the stake or tortured by the Spanish Inquisition.

January 18, 2020 9:26 pm

Willis in the original post talking about the effects of CO2 on the stratosphere:
As you can see, although the stratospheric temperature has indeed dropped, the drop has been quite complex. The two peaks in the record are from the volcanoes noted in the graph. After each one, the stratosphere has warmed for about five years. Each time it seems to have stabilized at a lower temperature. There has been a slight drop since the second eruption. It’s likely that this is from the changes noted in Theory 1, although that is far from clear.

One of the reasons for the complex behavior is the additional effect of Ozone and its change over time,
see: Clough and Iacona, J. Geo research, vol 100, 1995

January 19, 2020 1:11 am

Willis,
I hope you’re still reading comments on this post.

I have a question, but first I should say I like your theory and your observation on stability, but I’ve been wondering if it is the same during glacial periods? Or is there some input to the system which “flips”? It seems to me that the climate has two stable states, it flips when something in the regulating mechanism overshoot.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 19, 2020 12:25 pm

Willis, would you consider doing a deeper dive on this in a future post? Admittedly it would be speculative, in contrast to your usual data analysis, but I don’t think I would be alone in wanting to hear the speculations of someone who has spent so many hours with the data.

If this idea comports with reality, it would imply that the only “tipping point” that we have to fear would be one that drives us to the stable glaciated state. From a precautionary principle point of view, don’t the doom-mongers have it backwards? If human activity has any substantial effect on climate (an open question in my mind), we should be doing whatever possible to raise average temperatures to avoid falling into the cold regime.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 20, 2020 3:35 am

Thank you Willis, could I echo Rich’s request, it’s been something that has puzzled me about CO2 is the master controller theory since it started gaining traction.

John Tillman
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
January 20, 2020 5:06 pm

Earth during the Pleistocene and Holocene Epochs has three fairly regular states. One is interglacial, as now. The other is normal glacial, as per perhaps most of the past 2.6 million years. The other is glacial maximum or Heinrich event-dominated, as for some 10,000 years before transition to the Holocene, ie the latest interglacial.

Reply to  John Tillman
January 20, 2020 5:20 pm

“Earth during the Pleistocene and Holocene Epochs has three fairly regular states”
Also know as “Tolerable for Plants” ; “Bad for Plants” and “Terrible for Plants.”

Bloke down the pub
January 19, 2020 2:52 am

Knowing your standard that perfection is good enough, may I point out a typo?
In all I’ve written so 40 or so posts exploring this theory’

Mark Broderick
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 19, 2020 10:36 am

Willis

I posted the same thing 9 hours ago but it got lost in the “dog House” crap pile ! sigh …

Martin Mason
January 19, 2020 3:11 am

Can somebody please explain what ” latitude drift in the data”, is?

Many thanks

Herbert
January 19, 2020 3:18 am

Willis,
I like Heretics.
Heretics are useful for testing science and falsifying hypotheses, even if they are wrong.
Here is a well known self confessed heretic.
“ A Many Coloured Glass” by Freeman Dyson,
Chapter 3, “ Heretical Thoughts about Science and Society,”-
“As a scientist, I do not have much faith in predictions.Science is organised unpredictability.The best scientists like to arrange things in an experiment to be as unpredictable as possible, and then they do the experiment to see what will happen.You might say if something is predictable then it is not science.
When I make predictions,I am not speaking as a scientist,I am speaking as a storyteller and my predictions are science fiction rather than science…..
I will be telling stories that challenge the prevailing theories of today.The prevailing dogmas may be right but they still need to be challenged.
I am proud to be a heretic.The world always needs heretics to challenge the prevailing orthodoxies….”
Dyson goes on to state his most famous and quoted passage about the unreliability of models whose creators do not go out into the real unruly world where scientific data can be observed and tested away from the modeller’s comfortable office.
He states his conclusion succinctly. “My first heresy says that all the fuss about global warming has been grossly exaggerated……Of course they say, I have no degree in meteorology and I am therefore not qualified to speak.But I have studied the climate models and I know what they can do.The models solve the equations of fluid dynamics and they do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds ,the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields and farms and forests .They do not begin to describe the real world that we live in….”
Willis, continue your heresies.

January 19, 2020 4:17 am

The ‘sprinkling’ of energy described is still strong denial of physics. They think that if they use some anti-physical process to conserve energy globally, then it’s ok. It’s not ok, because it still violates the energy conservation law. That law is local, not simply global. It does not allow energy teleportation, which they do with that ‘sprinkling’.

Physics denial is strong in climastrology.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 21, 2020 10:16 am

You had the option to click on my name before trying to explain me things that I kind of know…

Now, for the energy conservation issue, ‘sprinkling’ is not a solution, but an added fallacy on top of those numerical errors. It can only add to bullshit, by ex falso, quodlibet.

For alleviating the issue, look up ‘symplectic integrators’. It’s the most one can do about it. Adding anti-physics is not going to help, but is going to hurt the simulation. BADLY. No matter how ‘reasonable’ it looks to some folks.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 22, 2020 2:40 am

Well, of course you didn’t learn a damn thing. Why would I expect otherwise?

‘Very nearly’ can be much better than using integrators that are not symplectic and augmenting them with anti-physical laws. Simulations by using denial of physics is not a solution.

Now, the problem ‘won’t be fixed’. Yes, that’s true, the problem won’t be fixed even if using perfect algorithms with a hypothetical infinite speed, infinite memory computer.

The measurement errors and the mere fact that the initial condition is specified in a bullshit way, using only very few points of the system, renders the ‘numerical errors’ issue irrelevant after some simulations steps. Those initial errors explode exponentially.

Those initial errors can be much bigger than the numerical errors introduced by a single step in the simulation, so you should be very worried about those that occur first, because those are the ones that are the biggest and get amplified the worst.

The numerical errors that add up during the simulation are only cherries ‘sprinkled’ on top of that and nothing more. You can always take a certain step and consider that state as the initial state with the numerical errors ‘sprinkled’ on top of the exponentially amplified errors from the actual initial state. But if you don’t solve the initial state problem, trying to fix the numerical errors by anti-physics is not productive.

You just make your model deny physics more. You don’t fix the problem, you make it worse. There is not warranty that by using an anti-physical law (global energy conservation, that is, energy teleportation) will make the simulation behave in a more physical way and closer to reality. There is no warranty of any kind that by denying physics like that you get closer to reality. You don’t even respect the energy conservation law, because that is local, a much tough requirement than in the anti-physics global one.

TLDR: By doing the ‘sprinkling’ you don’t even respect the real energy conservation law, you actually deny it. Why would anybody expect to make it better for anything else is quite surprising since it doesn’t even fix one single law that it targets…

Reply to  Adrian
January 22, 2020 3:11 am

Adrian,

In short “Junk Analysis”

Sheri
January 19, 2020 6:07 am

How about an explanation on how one can “falsify” probability models???? Since Willis is talking models and falsifying, I think that would have been very, very important.

Good discussion, but without a definition of what “falsifying” means in a probability model, it really solves nothing.

G Ashe
January 19, 2020 6:54 am

I liked that Willis.

Tell me what effect doubling co2 to 800 ppm would have on the speed of energy loss to space from the atmosphere as a whole, because that doubles the energy loss that is passed on to co2 kinetically by the other 99.96% of the atmosphere and then radiated directly to space as well as back-radiated down..

The atmosphere as a whole has to start to cool eventually no matter how much energy is back radiated, the Co2 is still radiating the equal amount directly to space surely.

With energy in to the earth system as a whole remaining a virtual constant over a century, then doubling the strong energy emitters to space in the atmosphere must surely cool the atmosphere as a whole eventually.

Gary Ashe
January 19, 2020 7:34 am

Eventually Willis i cant see any other thing happening than our atmosphere cooling from the top down eventually if we keep adding what are essentially atmospheric energy drainers directly to space, the atmosphere will cool layer by layer over 1000s of years……. assuming energy in remained a constant and the strong atmospheric emitters of the whole atmospheres energy store continued to rise.

The back radiation focus is just a red herring rotten enough to make a seagull sick imo.

January 19, 2020 7:51 am

This is idiotic. Not Willis’ analysis, or Gavin’s analysis. The process is stupid, debating such a matter in academic journals and blogs. This debate has been running for 3 decades, and has gridlocked climate policy.

As Mosher said, we don’t even prepare for the inevitable repeat of past weather.

There is a simple next step, one that has often worked adequately. Bring in an outside group of experts to review and validate the models. Whatever the cost, it would be pocket change compared to the bills we’re running up now.

America has a wealth of people and institutions capable of doing this. The National Academy of Sciences could be the lead agency in a Federal project to validate climate models. They could mobilize experts in the required wide range of fields.

Operational leadership could be provided by the Verification and Validation Committee of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME). See their “Guide for Verification and Validation in Computational Solid Mechanics”, their “Standard for Verification and Validation in Computational Fluid Dynamics and Heat Transfer”, and “An Illustration of the Concepts of Verification and Validation in Computational Solid Mechanics.”

NOAA and NSA could assist. There are probably other groups that could provide expert assistance.

For details see:
https://fabiusmaximus.com/2020/01/18/solution-to-the-climate-crisis/

A nation with such resources that can’t apply them to a critical issue probably won’t make it thru the 21st century.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Larry
January 19, 2020 10:00 am

It’s a good sentiment, but you’re still going to run into personalities on both sides of the argument that will sully the results. I don’t think anyone is really unbiased at this point. Or even if they are, they will be painted in a bad light if their conclusions go against one orthodoxy or the other.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Larry
January 19, 2020 1:14 pm

This debate has been running for 3 decades, and has gridlocked climate policy.

Which assumes that we need some kind of “climate policy”. We do not. Presumably you don’t consider “do nothing and let markets control the outcome” as a valid climate policy.

The reason there is gridlock is that the entire exercise is political, not scientific. So-called experts setting industrial policy is straight out of the early 20th century Progressive movement’s handbook. The experts will be defined as experts by politicians, and their judgments no less political. It’s as predictable as the rulings of Supreme Court justices. (If you dispute that, then why the fear on the Left that Trump might get to appoint a few more judicial experts?)

Just like virtually every other activity undertaken by government to interfere in markets and individual freedom, climate policy is anti-liberty, unless that policy is to do nothing.

I’m for eternal gridlock, given the likely alternatives. No change is always preferable to change that pleases the Left. Any conceivable panel of climate experts would exclude true experts like Happer, Lindzen, and others, or would marginalize them like Republican legislators in Massachusetts or California.

Matthew R Marler
January 19, 2020 8:42 am

Willis, thank you again for a good essay.

John F. Hultquist
January 19, 2020 9:21 am

Why we love climate activists and their “climate scientist” accomplice friends:

Al Gore used a picture of a mama Polar Bear on an ice berg and became a revered climate guru. The picture was taken by a NZ student researcher, and Gore used it without asking her or giving her credit.
Oh, and the photo did not show what Gore claimed.

Do Schmidt and Mann go into the field and collect some real data?

RoHa
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
January 19, 2020 6:36 pm

Data grows in fields? I thought it was made up in offices.

Antero Ollila
January 19, 2020 10:18 am

Willis asked me to comment on his volcano theory in the case of Mt. Pinatubo as observed on Hawaii island. Sorry that I do it so late, but I am living in a different time zone. The theory about clouds compensating the eruption effects could be possible but a basic problem is that we do not know enough about the clouds.

There is also a possible explanation of why the temperature of Hawaii did not respond to the eruption but stayed about at the same level as before the eruption. During the eruption effects from June 1991 to about December 1995, there was a strong El Nino ONI being 1.7 in January 1992. It was exactly the same month when the eruption effects had its maximum effect (lowering temperature).

Hawaii locates very close to Nino 3.4, which is the most sensitive area of ENSO and its 3-months temperature average anomaly is the ONI. So, my explanation is that the temperature of Hawaii had two opposite climate forcing effects compensating each other.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Antero Ollila
January 19, 2020 8:18 pm

Antero
The Hawaiian Islands are surrounded by what chemists or physicists might characterize as a “water bath.” That is, something to hold temperature constant. Where we tend to see temperature extremes is in the interior of large continental masses. So, for greater sensitivity to changes we should be looking at land temperatures unmodified by large bodies of water.

Antero Ollila
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
January 19, 2020 9:48 pm

Clyde,

Your explanation maybe even better. When I was working in Oman, I was looking at the weather forecasts of the eastern hemisphere. I noticed that the temperature of Sri Lanka was constant from day to day, from month to month.

Anyway, it is a fact that no climate theory can be built on observations from one location only.

SAMURAI
January 19, 2020 7:26 pm

The CAGW hypothesis depends on a fake “runaway CO2/water vapor feedback loop” to get ECS over 3C.

The problem with “runaway feedback loops” is that they eventually go to infinity unless negative feedbacks counter act them…

When Dr. Lindzen confronted CAGW modelers on this conundrum, they gave vague references to fossil-fuel particulates keeping the runaway feedback loop in check, but couldn’t actually provide any equations or lines of code that quantified it….

In reality, there isn’t a “CO2/water vapor runaway feedback loop”. What’s likely occurring is that the maximum CO2 forcing per CO2 doubling is around 1.2C, and the increased ocean water vapor caused by CO2 warming increases cloud cover, which increases earth’s albedo and makes the NET ECS around 0.8C…

Willis has done yeoman’s work on this water vapor/cloud cover/albedo/negative feedback process, which elegantly explains why the CAGW hypothesis has already been disconfirmed….

Hivemind
January 20, 2020 1:02 am

“where something gets published is never the question”

Willis, I agree 100%. When I recently did a Master of Project Management degree, I was horrified to be given and extremely long list of publications graded from A* down to E. We were only allowed to reference publications from the ‘top’ of the list.

And, yes, my university did drink the climate change cool-aid, to the extent that they disgustingly jumped onto the latest bushfires to push their propaganda out.

Mark B
January 20, 2020 10:50 am

Does my theory stand up to close inspection? . . . Can you find flaws in the logic, the data, the math, or any other part of what I’ve written?
What procedure might conceivably falsify the argument made above? Have you made any effort to do so?

Mark B
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 20, 2020 12:09 pm

The italicized bit is a quote from the article and to be fair, upon further examination it isn’t clear to what “my theory” refers as there are a number of possibilities in the article. We can eliminate the 247 comments from consideration on the grounds they were made after the quoted statement.

What I’m interested in is how you would evaluate your own self-skepticism and what protections you might employ in that regard.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
January 21, 2020 5:07 am

“I expose my work to the harsh gaze of the Argus-eyed intarwebs, and to the immediate criticism of a host of folks who would like nothing more than to find errors in my work. That’s the best peer review I know of.”

And we are glad you do, because we all learn something. It takes a special kind of person to do what you do.

And it takes a special kind of place like WUWT to dig into the details of all the claims that are made in the name of climate science and other sciences, because climate science involves many specialties and you will find experts in all those subjects here at this website and those experts are willing to weigh in when appropriate.

I don’t think there is a better review process than right here at WUWT. Not to mention the fun we have doing it!

Paul Sarmiento
January 21, 2020 9:14 pm

I have an issue with using average temperature to define climate. Local climate is mostly dependent on the availability of liquid water and the prevailing humidity. That is why Antarctica is as desert as Sahara. That is also why we define local climes as desert, swamp, monsoon, rain fed, dry, wet, etc… And why temperature defined climate goes across all longitude along certain latitude ranges like tropical, temperate, arctic and sub-arctic and this is regardless of the local climate which can be a rainforest such as in Vancouver or in the Amazon while some in the same relative latitude are deserts.

Martin Capages Jr.
Reply to  Paul Sarmiento
January 23, 2020 3:01 pm

Paul, I completely agree. And, we have ocean temperatures transporting warmer and cooler water to different regions. We do have a good handle on regional climates over many, many years. The dispersal of surface temperature monitoring stations and tweaking makes that temperature data suspect, but the satellite surface and atmospheric data is very good and getting better AND it is regionally specific, not a mean global temperature. Mitigation and adaptation efforts will be at the regional level, not global. My suggestion is to wait on the data, we can certainly handle a 1 degree C rise in 80 years. In the meantime, maybe work on regional models, in particular the areas that have a consistent cycle of cloud formations. That would be useful in many ways.