Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Gavin Schmidt is a computer programmer with the Goddard Institute of Space Sciences (GISS) and a noted climate alarmist. He has a Ph.D. in applied mathematics. He’s put together a twitter thread containing what he sees as some important points of the “testable, falsifiable science that supports a human cause of recent trends in global mean temperature”. He says that the slight ongoing rise in temperature is due to the increase in carbon dioxide (CO2) and other so-called “greenhouse gases”. For simplicity, I’ll call this the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory of climate. We’ve discussed Dr. Schmidt’s ideas before here on WUWT.
Now, Gavin and I have a bit of history. We first started corresponding by way of a climate mailing list moderated by Timo Hameraanta back around the turn of the century, before Facebook and Twitter.
The interesting part of our interaction was what convinced me that he was a lousy programmer. I asked him about his program, the GISS Global Climate Model. I was interested in how his model made sure that energy was conserved. I asked what happened at the end of each model timestep to verify that energy was neither created nor destroyed.
He said what I knew from my own experience in writing iterative models, that there is always some slight imbalance in energy from the beginning to the end of the timestep. If nothing else, the discrete digital nature of each calculation assures that there with be slight roundoff errors. If these are left uncorrected they can easily accumulate and bring the model down.
He said the way that the GISS model handled that imbalance was to take the excess or the shortage of energy and sprinkle it evenly over the entire planet.
Now, that seemed perfectly reasonable for trivial amounts of imbalance coming from digitization. But what if it were larger, and it arose from some problem with their calculations? What then?
So I asked him how large that energy imbalance typically was … and to my astonishment, he said he didn’t know.
Amazed, I asked if he had some computer version of a “Murphy Gauge” on the excess energy. A “Murphy Gauge” (below) is a gauge that allows for Murphy’s Law by letting you set an alarm if the variable goes outside of the expected range … which of course it will—Murphy says so. On the computer, the equivalent would be something in his model that would warn him if the excess or shortage of energy exceeded some set amount.

Nope. Not only did he have no Murphy Gauge set, but he also had no idea how far the model went off the rails regarding the conservation of energy, either on average or in individual timesteps. He just pushed it back into balance with each timestep, turned his back, and kept rolling.
At that point, I concluded that Gavin was far from suspicious enough of his model. Me, I wrote my first computer program in 1963, about the time that Gavin was born. And I don’t trust computer models one bit. They’ll bite the hand that feeds them at the slightest opportunity even if you fence them in with Murphy Gauges … and Gavin didn’t understand that basic problem.
This is particularly an issue with what are called “iterative” models. These are models that go step by step through time, with the output of each timestep being the input to the next timestep. Errors tend to accumulate in such models, so it’s very easy for them to spiral out of control … and climate models are all iterative models. Here’s a large number of runs from an iterative climate model.

Figure 1. 2,017 climate model runs from climateprediction.net.
Figure 1 (b), the lower of the two graphs, shows the change in temperature. Note how during the “control phase”, when there is no change in the inputs, even a small ongoing drop in temperature can lead to the model spiraling down to the “Snowball Earth” off the bottom of the graph, as shown in the control phase of the modeled temperature in Figure 1 (a).
So I’m suspicious as can be of all of the modern iterative climate models. They are all tuned to hindcast the past … but the climate sensitivities in all of them are different. How can that be? Well … it can’t. It means that they’re just making it up. I discussed this problem here, it’s a big one.
Next, let me make a heel turn to set the stage with an overview of the recent changes in climate. Back in Medieval times, around 1000 or so, the surface temperature was as warm or perhaps even warmer than it is today. But then the earth cooled and went into what is called the “Little Ice Age”. This was a hard time for plants, animals, and us humanoids alike. Shorter growing seasons, frozen rivers and harbors, crop failures. No bueno.

Why were the Medieval times so warm? We don’t know. Why did the temperatures drop down to the cold Little Ice Age? We don’t know. Why did temperatures stop dropping around 1700 and not 1400 or 1800? We don’t know.
After that very cold time, temperatures started rising again. And since about the year 1700 or so, temperatures have been rising, in fits or starts, at about a half a degree per century for the last two-plus centuries.
Why didn’t the temperature continue to cool after the Little Ice Age and put us into a glaciation? We don’t know. Why did it start to warm at the end of the Little Ice Age, rather than simply staying cold? We don’t know. Why did it start to warm around 1700 or so, rather than in 1900? We don’t know. Why have we seen slow warming since the Little Ice Age? We don’t know.
As you can see, although we know a lot about the climate … we also don’t know a lot about the climate.
In any case, with that as prologue, here is Gavin’s “falsifiable science” tweet. Bear in mind that I’m not saying he’s wrong because he is a careless programmer. That’s a separate question. I’m saying he’s wrong because he’s conflating three very different theories and treating them as one. Here’s his tweet.
We develop theories.
1) Radiative-transfer (e.g. Manabe and Wetherald, 1967)
2) Energy-balance models (Budyko 1961 and many subsequent papers)
3) GCMs (Phillips 1956, Hansen et al 1983, CMIP etc.)
We make falsifiable predictions. Here are just a few:
1967: increasing CO2 will cause the stratosphere to cool
1981: increasing CO2 will cause warming at surface to be detectable by 1990s
1988: warming from increasing GHGs will lead to increases in ocean heat content
1991: Eruption of Pinatubo will lead to ~2-3 yrs of cooling
2001: Increases in GHGs will be detectable in space-based spectra
2004: Increases in GHGs will lead to continued warming at ~0.18ºC/decade.
We test the predictions:
Stratospheric cooling? ✅
Detectable warming? ✅
OHC increase?✅
Pinatubo-related cooling?✅
Space-based changes in IR absorption? ✅
post-2004 continued warming?✅
Let me start by saying that Gavin is badly conflating three very separate and distinct theories.
- Theory 1) Increasing CO2 increases atmospheric absorption, which affects the overall temperature of the various layers of the atmosphere, and increases downwelling so-called “greenhouse” radiation.
- Theory 2) In the short term, large changes in downwelling radiation change the surface temperature.
- Theory 3) In the long term, small continuing increases in downwelling radiation lead to corresponding small continuing increases in global surface temperature.
Here the spoiler alert: I think that the first two of these are true (with caveats), but we have virtually no evidence that the third one is either true or untrue.
So let’s go through his six lines of evidence, consider which theory he’s actually discussing, and see if they stands up to critical examination.
a) Increasing CO2 will cause the stratosphere to cool. This is obviously evidence in support of theory 1. Here’s the record of stratospheric temperatures, from the Microwave Sounding Units on a succession of satellites.

Figure 2. Global stratospheric temperatures measured from space.
As you can see, although the stratospheric temperature has indeed dropped, the drop has been quite complex. The two peaks in the record are from the volcanoes noted in the graph. After each one, the stratosphere has warmed for about five years. Each time it seems to have stabilized at a lower temperature. There has been a slight drop since the second eruption. It’s likely that this is from the changes noted in Theory 1, although that is far from clear.
b) Increasing CO2 will cause warming at surface to be detectable by 1990s. This is supposed to be evidence in support of Theory 3. However, while this is true, the temperature has been rising for a couple of hundred years. So unless you believe in Little Ice Age SUVs, this is not evidence in support of any part of the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory.
c) Warming from increasing GHGs will lead to increases in ocean heat content. Same as (b) immediately above, and the same objection. It’s supposed to be in support of Theory 3, but in a warming world, a warming ocean is expected and not probative of anything.
d) Eruption of Pinatubo will lead to ~2-3 yrs of cooling. This is evidence in support of Theory 2 … but then so is the surface warming up when the sun rises. We know that large transient changes in the amount of downwelling radiation (which is called “forcing” in climate science) will change the surface temperature.
However, the models didn’t do a very good job of predicting the size of the cooling. Here are some results which I discussed in a post ten years ago:

Figure 2. Comparison of annual predictions with annual observations. Upper panel is Figure 2(b) from the GISS prediction paper, lower is my emulation from digitized data. Note that prior to 1977 the modern version of the GISS temperature data diverges from the 1992 version of the temperature data. I have used an anomaly of 1990 = 0.35 for the modern GISS data in order to agree with the old GISS version at the start of the prediction period. All other data is as in the original GISS prediction. Pinatubo prediction (blue line) is an annual average of their Figure 3 monthly results.
Note that the Hansen/Schmidt GISS model predicted more than twice the drop from Pinatubo compared to the actual reality. It also predicted that the drop would last longer than what happened. I’ll return to this question in a bit, but for now, we’ll note that Theory 2 is true—short-term changes in forcing, whether daily, monthly, or from volcanoes, do change the temperature.
e) Increases in GHGs will be detectable in space-based spectra. With more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, we expect to see more infrared absorbed by the atmosphere. We’ve measured this change in a variety of ways. This is evidence in support of Theory 1.
f) Increases in GHGs will lead to continued warming at ~0.18ºC/decade. This is put up in support of Theory 3. However, it’s been warming for two or more centuries now, and this prediction in 2004 is nothing but the continuation of the prior thirty years of warming. Once again, the fact that it is still warming is not proof of anything.
To summarize:
• Theories 1 and 2 are clearly true and are supported by a variety of evidence. Three of his six bullet points are evidence in support of those two theories.
• The other three pieces of evidence are saying that after more than two centuries of slow warming … the warming is continuing. This says exactly nothing about Theory 3.
This is the continuing problem with the “CO2 Roolz Temperature” theory … it’s really three very separate theories in one, and while two of the theories are clearly true, there is very little evidence in support of the third leg of the stool. And the stool will not stand up with only two legs.
Gavin closes out his tweet with the following:
We can also look at the testable, falsifiable, theories that were tested, and failed.
Solar forcing? Fails the strat cooling test.❌
Ocean circulation change? Fails the OHC increase test ❌
Orbital forcing? Fails on multiple levels ❌
If you have a theory that you don’t think has been falsified, or you think you can falsify the mainstream conclusions, that’s great! We can test that too! (But lots of people have tried this already so expect there to be an answer already).
PS. Actually, it’s even a bit harder. Not only would you need to find a theory that does as well as the current theory, but you’d also need to show why the current theory isn’t operative.
Now, for folks unfamiliar with my work, I do have a theory. I also have a heap of evidence in support of it. But I’m not a climate skeptic—I’m a climate heretic, someone who denies their basic claim that changes in the temperature are a simple linear function of the changes in forcing.
Folks are interested in why the temperature of the planet changes over time. That’s at the center of modern climate science. My theory, on the other hand, arose from my being interested in a totally different question about climate—why is the temperature so stable? For example, over the 20th Century, the temperature only varied by ± 0.3°C. In the giant heat engine that is the climate, which is constantly using solar energy to circulate the oceans and the atmosphere, this is a variation of 0.1% … as someone who has dealt with a variety of heat engines, I can tell you that this is amazing stability. The system is ruled by nothing more solid than waves, wind, and water. So my question wasn’t why the climate changes as it does.
My question was, why is the climate so stable?
And my answer is, there are a host of what are called “emergent phenomena” that arise when local temperatures go above some local threshold. They include the timing and strength of the daily emergence of the cumulus cloud field in the tropics; the development of thunderstorms; the emergence of dust devils when temperatures get hot; the action of the El Nino/La Nina pump moving warm water to the poles; and various “oscillations” like the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.
These emergent phenomena arise out of nowhere, last for some length of time, and then disappear completely. And acting together, they all work to prevent both the overcooling and the overheating of the planet. And as mentioned above, I say that these phenomena acted to reduce the length and the depth of the effect of the Pinatubo volcano. See my post called “When Eruptions Don’t” for another look at how the climate system responds to a decrease in incoming solar energy due to volcanic eruptions.
I originally published this theory in the journal Energy and Environment. I followed that up with a posting of the same ideas here at Watts Up With That in a post called The Thermostat Hypothesis.
I have continued this quest by writing a number of posts over the last 20 years that have added observational evidence to the theory and explored its ramifications. These included “Emergent Climate Phenomena“, describing what emergence is and why it is so important; “The Details Are In The Devil“, explaining why the “climate sensitivity” type of analysis doesn’t work in a thermostatically controlled system; “Watching Thunderstorms Chase The Heat“, about how thunderstorms operate to cool only the warm parts of the tropical oceans; and most recently “Drying The Sky“, discussing the evolution of different stages in the tropical thermal regulation system.
In all, I’ve written some 40 or so posts exploring this theory of how the climate works. There’s an index to a number of them here, divided up by subject which covers up to January 2018 … hmm, I need to update the index. More recent posts of mine, not separated by subject, are listed here in reverse chronological order. [2021 update—my updated index to my work is now here.]
Now, I fear that my theory is of little interest to the climate establishment because they’re looking for headlines about THERMAGEDDON! CLIMATE EMERGENCY! My theory doesn’t have any of that, in fact, the opposite. My theory says that future warming is likely to be slow and small. So mostly, as with all good heretics, I’m shunned by the powers that be.
Let me close by saying that I have absolutely no academic qualifications at all. I took Physics 101 and Chemistry 101 in college. That’s it.
Since then, however, I have followed my education by teaching myself a host of subjects. For example, I taught myself and have made money writing programs in the following computer languages—Basic, VBA, Mathematica (2 of 3), Hypertalk, Vectorscript, Pascal, C/C++, and R. I taught myself refrigeration so I could take a job constructing and installing a blast freezer on a boat … in Fiji. As that post discusses, that was instrumental in understanding how thunderstorms operate in exactly the same manner as your household refrigerator.
And to return to the current discussion, I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours researching and writing and learning about climate … all with zero certificates on my wall.
So please, don’t bother telling me that I’m an uneducated jerk or an ignorant fool. First, I already know that, and if I forget, my gorgeous ex-fiancee will gladly remind me … and second, that’s not the question. The question is absolutely not are my educational bona fides up to your high standards? That’s meaningless.
Nor is the question is Watts Up With That believable or not? I say this because where something gets published is never the question. There are folks out there that truly seem to think that if E=MC^2 is written on the bathroom wall it’s not true because of where it was published.
The question, the only valid question in science, is are the claims true? Does my theory stand up to close inspection? Are my ideas backed, not by climate models, but by actual real-world observations? Can you find flaws in the logic, the data, the math, or any other part of what I’ve written?
I have great confidence in what I’ve written about my theory, for a simple reason. Watts Up With That is the premier spot on the web for public peer-review of scientific theories and ideas about climate. This doesn’t mean that it only publishes things known to be valid and true. Instead, it is a place to find out if what is published actually is valid and true. There are a lot of wicked-smart folks reading what I write, and plenty of them would love to find errors in my work.
So when those smart folks can’t find errors in what I’ve written, I know that I have a theory that at least stands a chance of becoming a mainstream view.
My best wishes to all,
w.
Post Scriptum: As is my custom, I politely ask that when you comment, you quote the exact words that you are referring to, so we can all be totally clear about both what and who you are discussing.
Hey Willis,
Thanks for informative and clear post. This chart from climateprediction.net is very informative – reminds me discussion around Pat’s Frank article. His critics were asking why huge uncertainty doesn’t manifest itself in wild runs. Well, it does as this chart proves in the ‘control mode’ where models go wild. The only reason why they don’t go are post-factum adjustments applied to those models in order to constrain them.
Increasing CO2 will cause warming at surface to be detectable by 1990s
A 60 year period was already noticeable in temperature anomalies so warming to about 2000 was assured. Then the rate of warming should have decelerated, which it did and then after adjustments it didn’t.
It’s not science to say that a theory is falsifiable but wasn’t because you can adjust the data to fit. To not discus at the very least shows a lack of honesty.
Not only do we not know why temps rose and fell during the M Warm Period and Little Ice Age, but also we CANNOT know, really, whether they did or not, in terms of proxy determinations. Maybe we can assess that they did from descriptive historical accounts, but, other than this, I doubt that we CAN know within any range of certainty, especially in terms of stating any degree values, … if I understand the gist of proxies and their temperature assignments correctly.
“Folks are interested in why the temperature of the planet changes over time.
That’s at the center of modern climate science.”
Folks SHOULD be interested.
That SHOULD be the center of modern climate science.
But most “climate employees” with science degrees (I hate to call them “scientists”) are different.
Most have government financed, or government bureaucrat, jobs related to climate science, and THEY are NOT interested in why the global average temperature changes over time.
They are paid to not be interested.
They already “know” 4.5 billion years of natural climate change “died” in 1975, and Mr. “big shot” CO2 took over as the “climate control knob”.
The government bureaucrats are the center of modern climate junk science.
Their “science” consists of repeated, always wrong, gloomy predictions of the future climate.
Each year they predict bad news … louder, and more hysterical, than the prior year.
That takes great talent, and a PhD.
They observe pleasant, good news global warming since the 1690s — over 300 years — and then predict if that global warming continues, it will no longer be good news, it will morph into an existential climate crisis.
That takes great talent too, and a PhD..
Re: You wrote:
“over the 20th Century, the temperature only varied by ± 0.3°C”
Temperature data before WWII are not very accurate, and before 1920 are mainly US, Europe and Australia — not even close to global coverage.
I believe “+/- 0.3 degrees” is false precision, and not a good summary of the 20th century, which had an intermittent up trend.
My mo’ better summary:
The temperature rose slightly in the 20th century, but no one would have noticed except for hysterical leftists bellowing that the world is going to come to an end from global warming !
.
.
Re: You also wrote:
“So please, don’t bother telling me that I’m an uneducated jerk or an ignorant fool.”
Try to be funny without saying anything bad about yourself.
No other writer at WUWT is as consistently good as you are.
I’m sure that means you get plenty of insults from climate alarmists elsewhere.
And the picture of your ex-fiancee at the link is fuzzy — please provide a clear picture !
Everyone forgot to make adjustment for latitude drift.
https://phzoe.wordpress.com/2019/12/30/what-global-warming/
Very interesting link! I also liked your precipitable water post.
22.4 mm is about 0.9 inches.
The leftwing The Conversation here in Aus show the correlation with temperature but start the plot in 1979.
Oops, Thank you, Robert!
Light line is AMO. There is a similar plot for Reykavik.
While your work needs to be taken with a pinch of salt until examined thoroughly, it does look like you’re on to something.
Global warming is a result of latitude drift in the data.
https://phzoe.wordpress.com/2019/12/30/what-global-warming/
“2004: Increases in GHGs will lead to continued warming at ~0.18ºC/decade”.
Assuming he is referring to CO2, I thought the agreed theoretic warming due to increasing CO2 was ~1C per doubling of the atmospheric concentration, anything other than that is unfounded speculative assumptions because there is no independent control for comparison — apart from computer modelling assumptions based on circular reasoning.
Willis Eschenbach:
You said “Why were the Medieval times so warm? We don’t know. Why did temperatures drop so suddenly to the Little Ice Age? We don”t know. Why did temperatures drop around 1600 and not 1400 or 1800? We don’t know”.
The answers are readily available.
For you, and anyone else who cares to know, view this pre-print link : https://www.Osf.io/bycj4/
It also provides answers to many of your other questions.
Burl, your claim is that sulfates are the secret temperature control knob for temperature. I find that as unlikely as the idea that CO2 is the secret temperature control knob for temperature. In any case, the post I linked to somewhere above, “Dronning Maud Meets the Little Ice Age“, deals with this exact issue.
TL;DR—it’s not sulfates.
w.
Willis Eschenbach:
Your “Dronning Maud Meets the Little Ice Age” post does NOT negate my claim that SO2 is the Principal Control Knob Governing Earths’ Temperatures, which is based upon empirical observations as to how Earth’s temperatures change when there are changes in the amount of SO2 aerosols in the atmosphere.
I have yet to find any large change, either increase or decrease, which is not related to changing levels of SO2 in the atmosphere, and this is documented in the reference cited.
This explanation of Climate Change, that changing levels of SO2 in the atmosphere, is falsifiable (that is, according to Websters, empirically testable) and it has been tested and validated multiple times on a planetary scale, whenever there is a VEI4, or higher, volcanic eruption.
There is initial cooling due to the volcanic SO2 aerosols injected into the atmosphere, then warming to pre-eruption levels, or a bit higher, when they eventually settle out, cleansing the air.
Further, there can be only one falsifiable explanation for a given problem, in this instance, Climate Change.
Environmental “Clean Air” efforts resulting in the reduction of the protective haze of SO2 aerosols in our atmosphere is what has caused our anomalous temperatures increases!
“Environmental “Clean Air” efforts resulting in the reduction of the protective haze of SO2 aerosols in our atmosphere is what has caused our anomalous temperatures increases!”
Did SO2 cause the similar temperature increases from 1910 to 1940?
Tom Abbott:
You asked whether SO2 caused the similar temperature increases from 1919 to 1940.
Probably. There were 8 recessions/depressions between 1910 and 1940. They are associated with increased temperatures because of fewer SO2 aerosol emissions due to reduced industrial activity.
Six of them resulted in enough warming to produce an El Nino. Two failed to produce an El Nino because of increased SO2 emissions from volcanic activity.
Burl, I won’t dismiss your SO2 theory out of hand because I haven’t really studied the subject that much. It would be very helpful to have a method for humans to heat up the atmosphere at times such as when the Earth is cooling drastically. So according to your theory, all we need to increase the Earth’s temperature is increased economic activity. I think humans could manage to do that. 🙂
Tom Abbott:
Tom:
You misunderstood my reply.
DECREASED industrial activity in the 1910-1940 era caused more warming because of fewer SO2 emissions,
Increased activity would have caused more cooling.
Currently, because of Clean Air efforts, industrial SO2 levels have fallen so low that now, decreased industrial activity will have little effect. Their gradual removal from the atmosphere has been responsible for the anomalous warming that has occurred since the mid-1970’s, not CO2.
But if you want to DECREASE existing temperatures, then iINCREASED industrial activity could lower global temperatures (as long as their SO2 scrubbers are turned off)
“You misunderstood my reply.
DECREASED industrial activity in the 1910-1940 era caused more warming because of fewer SO2 emissions,
Increased activity would have caused more cooling.”
I did misunderstand what you were saying.
I read something the other day about SO2 and volcanic eruptions and the article said that initially this caused an increase in temperatures and then a decrease in temperatures, so I guess I conflated that article and your statements into thinking you were talking about warming from increased SO2.
I may have misunderstood the other article’s point, too. As I said, I’m not up to speed on SO2 and its effects. The only thing I do know about it is volcanic eruptions will reduce the global temperatures by a degree or two for a year or two. I think that is pretty much established.
I followed the debate about Human-caused Global Cooling back in the 1970’s and although I saw lots of claims of “human-caused”, I never saw any evidence that humans have the same impact on the atmosphere as a large volcanic eruption.
Tom Abbott:
If the article was about satellite observations, then you remembered correctly. The SO2 plume reflects incoming solar, initially causing warming of the stratosphere (but cooling of the surface underneath). Then when the SO2 of the plume settles out, the reverse happens.
“The SO2 plume reflects incoming solar, initially causing warming of the stratosphere (but cooling of the surface underneath). Then when the SO2 of the plume settles out, the reverse happens.”
That’s right, Burl, that’s what was bouncing around in my mind when I read your post.
Willis;
You never responded to my following post.
You had written “The question, the only valid question in science, is are the claims true? Does my theory stand up to close inspection? Are my ideas backed not by climate models, but by actual real-world observations? Can you find flaws in the logic, the data, the math, or any other part of what I’ve written?”
Since you are one of the “wicked smart” individuals on this site, can you evaluate my claims with respect to the above?
Actually, he did respond, referring you to his “Dronning Maud Meets the Little Ice Age“ article. You just ignored it.
Anton Eagle:
No, I read Willis’s post, and responded to it.
What I was referring to was the fact that he never responded to my response, which countered his “Dronning Maud Meets the Little Ice Age” post with empirical data.
Burl Henry January 23, 2020 at 6:04 am
My post showed the SO2 levels over the entire period from the year 800 to the present. I showed that SO2 levels did NOT cause the LIA, nor the corresponding ice advance and retreat.
Your response was as follows:
Burl Henry January 18, 2020 at 6:00 pm
At that point I gave up. You say you “countered” my post with “empirical data”??? Hardly. Your playground-level response to a whole bunch of research and analysis and computer work on my part was simply to say no, Willis you’re wrong and I’m right. Not one scrap of empirical data in sight …
Pass. Not interested in that kind of childish response in the slightest.
In addition, your theory and whatever your “emipirical data” might be is of little interest to me because I’ve never seen a complex flow system that is ruled by some one single “Control Knob”. Complex flow systems far from equilibrium are ruled by the Constructal Law, not some fanciful “Control Knob” whether it is SO2 or CO2.
w.
PS—While we’re on the subject, Bejan’s paper on the “Constructal theory of global circulation and climate” is here …
Willis:
Several points:
1. Your post was written to invite others to attempt to find any errors in your theory, but when I challenged your theory, you got huffy and called it a playground-level response, etc. and refused to even consider it. A surprising response in consideration of your statement “The question, the only valid question in science, is ARE THE CLAIMS TRUE?”
2. The SO2 model which I have proposed, is falsifiable, and has been empirically tested, and validated, multiple times, on a planetary scale. It is far from a playground -level response.
3. There can only be one falsifiable and validated solution to a given problem, in this instance, climate change.
4. Consequently, your theory CANNOT be correct.
(Tom Abbott has an excellent discussion on falsification earlier in this thread).
Burl Henry January 23, 2020 at 7:24 pm
Burl, you didn’t point out one error in my theory. Instead you promoted your own theory.
And what I said was a “playground-level” response was when I provided actual observations that showed you were wrong. Your response was puerile, and didn’t address one thing I said.
I’m glad you think so. I disagree. And see above. What I called a childish answer was your reply when I showed that SO2 did NOT cause the Little Ice Age. I was being polite—your response was non-existent.
Agreed.
You STILL have not pointed out one incorrect thing that I’ve said. Nor have you made one substantial comment on the 1200 year SO2 record I provided, a record which shows little correlation with temperatures and clearly shows that SO2 did NOT cause the Little Ice Age. Stop pretending that your theory has been proven. It hasn’t even been tested.
w.
Willis:
Regarding your last reply:
You said “I showed that SO2 did NOT cause the Little Ice Age ‘
However, your Fig. 3 shows a large peak of Volcanic Sulfates in 1258 (from the Rinjani/Samalas VEI7 eruption in 1257), and an immediately following gradual rise in Ice Expansion that peaked about 22 years later, in 1280.
In this instance volcanic SO2 DID cause cooling, so you need to explain why the other numerous large eruptions during the LIA did not cause any cooling, per your theory.
You also stated “There is a large expansion of the ice cap…..in the century from 900 to 1000, but nary a volcano in sight”
Actually, there were 3 eruptions in 1000: Kusdach VEI4+, Tolbachik VEI4+, and and Chiangbaishan VEI7?
However, your Fig. 3 does not show any spike in volcanic sulfates from the Megatons of SO2 spewed into the atmosphere from those eruptions. Probably because it is not a plot of real data, but a plot of Probability Density Functions. And there are other problems with the Figure, as well.
As such, it is miss-leading and useless.
However, all of the above is moot.
According to the scientific philosopher Karl Popper, a theory must be falsifiable (that is, empirically testable) and that predictability was the gold standard for its acceptance.
You have voiced some good ideas, but you do NOT have a theory. See the preceding posts of Tom Abbott, Rich Davis, and Terry Oldberg.
With respect to my theory (that changing levels of SO2 aerosols are the control knob for Earth’s temperatures) it is falsifiable, and has been tested and validated multiple times, for example after every VEI4, or larger, volcanic eruption. The same is also observed for large increases or decreases in Anthropogenic SO2 aerosol emissions.
There is initial cooling from their injection of SO2 aerosols into the atmosphere, with the maximum cooling occurring around 12-15 months after the eruption, as the aerosols circulate around the globe.
Then, when the aerosols eventually settle out, typically two years or more after the eruption., temperatures return to pre-eruption levels, or a bit higher, as predicted.
With respect to predictability, the sensitivity factor, or Rule of Thumb, is ~ .02 Deg. C. of warming, or cooling, for each net Megaton of Change in global SO2 aerosol emissions.
That is, for example, if an eruption puts 10 Megatons of SO2 into the atmosphere, temperatures should be expected to decrease by ~ 0,2 deg.
Wow, I never realized how similar our backgrounds are. I too started life as a programmer and later as various roles in computer/programming architecture. I too have a deep, well founded suspicion of computer models. I couldn’t agree with your sentiments on this subject more.
The fact that different models have different sensitivities should be a bright red-flag that there models are almost all certainly wrong. You cannot compute the sensitivity if there are many non-linear variables involved, and especially any of the processes you model demonstrate sudden changes (maybe even chaotic behavior). You cannot build an effective predictive model of a complex system where there are many unknowns.
So you guess at sensitivity, then tweak the knobs (starting values, constants, and even equations) on your model until it seems to work. This in itself is enough to cause any reasonable person of sufficient education to doubt the models. Taking a lot of bad models and averaging them is completely nuts. You do not come up with a correct answer in science by averaging a lot of incorrect answers.
The data is telling them in no uncertain terms they need to discard their current models and go back to square one, but everyone seems too invested. Models can be useful if they lead to areas where more research is needed. In climate, they are completely worthless for predictions, at least until there is a deeper understanding of process(es). My guess, and it’s just a guess, is that climate is too complex (and maybe chaotic) to ever be predicted more than a short time out.
Precisely!
“As you can see, although the stratospheric temperature has indeed dropped, the drop has been quite complex”
Yes sir.
Quite complex
A little too complex to support its assumed cause.
https://tambonthongchai.com/2018/08/22/stratospheric-cooling/
An aside, related to where something is published, is to note the irony that Gavin was ‘publishing’ over on twitter.
I have followed these postings closely since I first discover WUWT and then these expositions. I am increasingly convinced there is a lot to be learned here. In an effort to think about where the observational evidence for it could be found I was thinking what would an observer outside the system would see happening on a daily/hourly… momentary basis, if he stayed over the target 24/7. Essentially the amount of IR emanating from the system to space would be ‘throttled’ by the ocean’s surface temperature. GEOS-17 [West] is geostationary above the Pacific, collects data in multiple wavelengths, and the visualisation of its products is available from Colorado State at: [link below]. If I view the visible wavelengths overlaid with longwave IR, i swear I can see Willis’s theory in operation in terms of differing amounts of energy emission on different days. Some days along the equator there are a continuous line of deep IR emission. other days not so much. Now if I could only figure out how to couple that with realtime ocean surface temps…
https://rammb-slider.cira.colostate.edu/?sat=goes-17&z=0&im=60&ts=1&st=0&et=0&speed=130&motion=loop&map=1&lat=0&opacity%5B0%5D=1&opacity%5B1%5D=0.5&hidden%5B0%5D=0&hidden%5B1%5D=0&pause=0&slider=-1&hide_controls=0&mouse_draw=0&follow_feature=0&follow_hide=0&s=rammb-slider&sec=full_disk&p%5B0%5D=band_16&p%5B1%5D=geocolor&x=10848&y=10848
Another interesting post Willis!
I have always found it strange that almost all of the talk surrounding CO2 and global warming centers around radiative effects. Aren’t convective forces more important than radiative forces for heat transfer in the troposphere? I think your emergent phenomenon hypothesis and Stephen Wilde’s convection ideas make a lot of sense.
I just find it plain weird that “climate” scientists and their models ignore so much of the climate history of the Holocene. I see no way to explain the temperature reconstructions from the Greenland ice cores using CO2 changes. We know the early Holocene was warmer than now and CO2 was much lower. The transitions from the Dark Ages to the Medieval Warm Period to the Little Ice age need to be explained within the context of the climate models.
The problem with Gavin’s tweets is that there are other hypothesis that fit the observed data. Its an identification problem that he ignores.
Also, can someone explain to me how high values for ECS reconcile with the ideal gas laws? I just don’t get it. Scientists claiming a .04% increase in CO2 leads to a ECS of 3-5 degrees must have an explanation.
In terms of convection, it’s certainly true that the troposphere is more like a pot with it’s lid ‘off’ than like a pot with it’s lid on’! So greenhouse theory has to maintain that not only does it make a difference that CO2 might require a higher temperature at the surface to drive some *combination” of heat flows going further out, you then have to get just the right amount of relative coldness near the top of the air column to make sure that the flow of heat isn’t lost to space too quickly, spoiling the whole effect.
Given that the air *does* get colder with height (itself largely a convection driven circumstance), it is perhaps not too implausible that you would get *some* surface warming — but why would anyone ever assume or consider it ‘proven’ that such greenhouse warming would amount to very much, now there’s the mystery.
You certainly need a Murphy Gauge with you in your pocket all the time.
Good to see Willis back here on a regular basis. The hiatus is over.
Hi Willis. Since Science thrives on testing data, I would welcome your comments/post on McKitrick & Christy’s invalidation of climate models. Tried and found wanting.
McKitrick, R. and Christy, J., 2018. A Test of the Tropical 200 to 300 hPa Warming Rate in Climate Models. Earth and Space Science, 5(9), pp.529-536.
Abstract
Discussion
I can’t necessary follow the logic that any of the conclusions you make are right . As far as I can see without the benefit of a global placebo it’s impossible to link CO 2 causation to anything . Ironically the only way to disprove the theories is to either keep pumping as much CO 2 as ever and see what happens or eliminate CO2 with draconian measures and see what happens. The reality without a proper control ( i.e parallel universe that has no additional man made CO2 ) which imitates the preindustrial world that contained only natural cyclical climate changes then any conclusions on any of Smiths theories and predictions are pure guesswork.
I actually believe that if the CO2 influence on temperature had not been hypothesised I don’t believe any humans would have had the acuteness of senses to notice that the temperature had increased or that the climate had changed during their lifetime. And if there had indeed been such a perceptive person I doubt that person would’ve had the light globe moment to think “ wow that 1/2 a degree of warming must be due to that fact that coal generated energy produces CO2.
Everything about the global warming theories don’t make sense and it staggers me that so many people don’t view the inconsistencies of the alarmists as some form of insanity rather than divine gospel preachings to be followed without question.
We could look at what hundreds of millions of years of Earth history says about the relationship between CO2 concentration and GAST, eh?
Willis another very interesting post, thanks for having the nerve to take on the true believers. BTW have you heard of the work of the Connollys over the last 5 years? Nic Lewis has promised to look at the Connolly’s work , when he has the time. He has met them and seems impressed. See his answer at Climate Audit.
They’ve looked at co2 as the driver of climate and actually checked the atmospheric data and evidence over a long period of time using the balloon data.
Here’s the links. http://oprj.net/
https://blog.friendsofscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/July-18-2019-Tucson-DDP-Connolly-Connolly-16×9-format.pdf
I don’t the right place to post my basic CO2 issue. long ago before climate science separated from meteorology to become a thing i got my physics degree. like John Cook I got employment in something else so i am not a science pro. did anyone take enough university physics to learn some thermodynamics? does everyone know that it applies at the macroscopic level? did anyone take an advanced program where you would learn quantum energy states and the internal energy states of dipolar molecules like carbon dioxide? i don’t remember the second part at all. i looked at “Physics Companion” on thermal topics and it jumped out. it is not surprising the ordinary person can’t distinguish between interactions that raise the temperature of a body at the macroscopic level and quantum mechanical effects at the microscopic level. The way I read John Tyndall’s experiment from 1850 is he blundered on to the 15 micron energy needed to excite a dipolar molecule into a vibrational / rotational state. physics distinguishes those two internal states from the three translational states where particles are hitting each other and creating the temperature of macro body. so what is the problem? putting a dipolar molecule into a higher energy state does not affect the temperature. the author of “Physics Companion” explicitly says that. so you can hit CO2 with radiant energy but it won’t heat up the atmosphere at the macro level. what happens to the 15 micro photon once it gets emitted again? we have to guided by basic thermodynamics and use temperature differential to say there is no net change between two systems if thermal equilibrium is reached in a reasonable time. what is a reasonable time? i would say when some quasi equilibrium is reached during the day’s heating and another quasi equilibrium is reached during the night’s cooling.
George.
Have a look at this post and in particular the comment by LOL@KLIMATE KATASTROPHE KOOKS AUG 13, 2019 AT 8:33 PM
https://climatechangedispatch.com/fiction-man-made-global-warming/
Here is the key message:-
“The conversion of translational mode to vibrational mode energy is, by definition, a cooling process.”
See also this paper by Blair D. Macdonald.
Quantum Mechanics and Raman Spectroscopy Refute Greenhouse Theory. Blair D. Macdonald. First Published: 2018-10-13Update 2019-02-12
https://principia-scientific.org/publications/PROM/PROM-Macdonald-Quantum-Raman-Atmosphere.pdf
“The Science” (TM) is still developing.
i will try to post separate comments for separate points. Katastrophe makes an odd comment. for me it is a given that infrared from the ground will leave for outer space unless something stops it like a cloud. so the planet is already cooling without any help. it doesn’t need an intermediate step of gas absorption and re-emission to make it work any better. there is already a temperature gradient of something like minus 60 degrees in the troposphere. anyone who thinks the troposphere can’t cool needs to provide evidence.
This is a physical problem. There must be a natural logical physical explanation for everything.
I see this more as a puzzle to be solved, as opposed to a fight. Puzzles are more fun, the more clues you have.
We are not following the physical evidence.
It is a fact that there is no physical explanation for phenomena that is happening today on the earth which correlates with current temperature change and has correlated with past temperature changes…
…that fact, is evidence that there is a conceptual error in our assumptions.
We know planetary temperature suddenly changed in 1994.
As the link, to the Nature Article, notes, the earth’s magnetic field also started to ‘act up’ in 1994 and geologists do not know why. The sudden change to the geomagnetic field forced changes to be made to navigation systems worldwide, multiple times.
Acting up means the North Magnetic Drift velocity increased by a factor of five from 15km/yr to 55km/yr starting in 1994 and suddenly in 2016 there has an abrupt change in the geomagnetic field strength in the Southern Atlantic region.
Planetary cloud cover also suddenly changed in 1994, at the same time that the North magnetic pole drift velocity increased by a factor of 5.
A decade ago geologists found that earth’s magnetic field has changed abruptly in recent times (last 5 thousand years) and the abrupt changes correlate with temperature change. There was an interesting PBS program that explained how by analyzing fired French tiles which capture the strength and orientation of the geomagnetic field at the time of their firing, geologists found the sudden past changes to the geomagnetic field.
There is no physical explanation as to what caused the past sudden changes to the geomagnetic field and there is no explanation for the recent magnetic field changes.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00007-1
Earth’s magnetic field is acting up and geologists don’t know why
Erratic motion of north magnetic pole forces experts to update model that aids global navigation.
First, that 2016 geomagnetic pulse beneath South America came at the worst possible time, just after the 2015 update to the World Magnetic Model. This meant that the magnetic field had lurched just after the latest update, in ways that planners had not anticipated.
Second, the motion of the north magnetic pole made the problem worse. The pole wanders in unpredictable ways that have fascinated explorers and scientists since James Clark Ross first measured it in 1831 in the Canadian Arctic.
In the mid-1990s it (William, the North magnetic pole drift speed, increased by a factor of 5) picked up speed, from around 15 kilometres per year to around 55 kilometres per year.
“Core questions
In the meantime, scientists are working to understand why the magnetic field is changing so dramatically.
Geomagnetic pulses, like the one that happened in 2016, might be traced back to ‘hydromagnetic’ waves arising from deep in the core1. And the fast motion of the north magnetic pole could be linked to a high-speed jet of liquid iron beneath Canada2.
The jet seems to be smearing out and weakening the magnetic field beneath Canada, Phil Livermore, a geomagnetist at the University of Leeds, UK, said at the American Geophysical Union meeting. And that means that Canada is essentially losing a magnetic tug-of-war with Siberia.
“The location of the north magnetic pole appears to be governed by two large-scale patches of magnetic field, one beneath Canada and one beneath Siberia,” Livermore says. “The Siberian patch is winning the competition.””
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/BardPapers/responseCourtillotEPSL07.pdf
Response to Comment on “Are there connections between Earth’s magnetic field and climate?, Earth Planet. Sci. Lett., 253, 328–339, 2007” by Bard, E., and Delaygue, M., Earth Planet. Sci. Lett., in press, 2007
Also, we wish to recall that evidence of a correlation between archeomagnetic jerks and cooling events (in a region extending from the eastern North Atlantic to the Middle East) now covers a period of 5 millenia and involves 10 events (see f.i. Figure 1 of Gallet and Genevey, 2007).
The climatic record uses a combination of results from Bond et al (2001), history of Swiss glaciers (Holzhauser et al, 2005) and historical accounts reviewed by Le Roy Ladurie (2004).
Recent high-resolution paleomagnetic records (e.g. Snowball and Sandgren, 2004; St-Onge et al., 2003) and global geomagnetic field modeling (Korte and Constable, 2006) support the idea that part of the centennial-scale fluctuations in 14C production may have been influenced by previously unmodeled rapid dipole field variations.
William Astley:
You wrote “This is a physical problem. There must be a natural, logical physical explanation for everything.”
I believe that I have solved the physical problem. Visit the pre-print site https://www.Osf.io/bycj4/
“Increasing CO2 (X) will cause the stratosphere to cool (Y). This is obviously evidence in support of theory 1.”
There is an empirical observation that is consistent with what was predicted.
But only a correlation between observations is shown.
Unless you control the other variables I don’t see how you can make the inference that X caused Y (X came before Y, therefore X caused Y is a post hoc fallacy)..
For example, as was pointed out above, a reduction in cloud cover will also cause stratospheric cooling (so the inference of co2 as the cause is not necessarily the best explanation of the observation, either, ruling out an abductive argument).
Likewise if stratospheric cooling is not observed it can be explained away by some other variable (which would be an acute case of Quinean underdetermination).
I always enjoy your posts Willis and find your explanations understandable and logical. Being a 75 yo farmer in Australia I have lived through droughts, floods, cold winters and hot summers and am happy to accept that generally there is stability. I have often observed the heat built up during the day being dissipated by an afternoon thunderstorm and enjoyed your tropical storm post many year ago as confirmation of the Earth’s ability to control temperature. I have no answer to your question except nature always seeks equilibrium. My question is why nature has determined that the current temperature/climate is just right? I do observe that at various other times the Earth has settled for a colder or hotter temperature which drove great changes in the environment and in the lifeforms it supported. I love your work.
Willis,
“Figure 1 (b), the lower of the two graphs, shows the change in temperature. Note how during the “control phase”, when there is no change in the inputs, even a small ongoing drop in temperature can lead to the model spiraling down to the “Snowball Earth” off the bottom of the graph”
The various behaviours in Fig 1(b) are not due to a small ongoing drop in temperature. The diagram comes from this 2005 paper. The GCM concerned is not a coupled AOGCM, but approximates the ocean with a mixed-layer model. They did 2578 simulations on different PCs run by volunteers. They used different parameter ranges for each simulation, to test what the effects would be. The Fig is the distribution of 2017 of those simulations. The scatter represents the effect of the different parameter ranges, not instability in a program. Some did not work at all.
Nick, after a couple of years during which you’ve made logical, reasonable objections, now you’re back to the kind of argumentation that got you the nickname “Racehorse Stokes”. And it’s really not a good look on you.
Here’s the origin of the nickname. Richard “Racehorse” Haynes was a famous Texas lawyer. He once explained a defense as follows:
My point was that it is quite easy for an iterative model to go wildly off of the rails. Not one damn thing you said makes any difference to that point. Not one. It’s just obfuscation. You’re just claiming you don’t have a dog.
w.
Nick Stokes has spent years diligently improving his fine-gridded model of the earths surface temperature. That is not a race-horse mentality compared with the quickie slop posts that occur on this blog.
Hayata, first, his nickname of “Racehorse Stokes” has nothing to do with racehorses, and everything to do with a famous lawyer named “Racehorse Haynes”.
Second, if you are going to accuse others of “quickie slop posts”, at least have the huevos to say who it is you’re talking about.
Regards,
w.
“The Fig is the distribution of 2017 of those simulations.”
I see that Fig 1(a) is the distribution of those simulations. Fig 1(b) is the result of applying a range of initial conditions (414 trials).
Of the snowballing ones, they say:
“Six of these model versions show a significant cooling tendency in the doubled CO2 phase. This cooling is also due to known limitations with the use of a simplified ocean (see Supplementary Information) so these simulations are excluded from the remaining analysis of sensitivity”
Willis
I hope the following is not a too stupid golf analogy.
Step#1
Ten hack golfers (call them CMIP5s) each get ten shots at a par three.
The precision and accuracy is compared to one shot from a professional golfer (weather).
Some hacks will fall short, go long, slice, or hook or just be shockers. But the average of the 100 shots may be ok.
Step#2
Do the same with ten average golfers.(call them CMIP6). Their precision an accuracy may improve and the average may be even closer to the professional or even weirdly better..
Step#3
You now must choose the best CMIP5 and CMIP6 golfer and they must play a stroke round with the professional.
Their performance is only judged on the final score. Getting earlier rounds close or lucky holes in ones don’t count.
Eschenbach is full of crap when he posts: ” Watts Up With That is the premier spot on the web for public peer-review of scientific theories and ideas about climate. ”
…
Web site hit counters do not measure anything. Not to mention that this site has not produced a single decent “idea” about climate, other than rejecting the established science. It doesn’t do science, it does news and commentary, with the “peers” on this site just being members of a circle jerk.
…
Roy Spencer destroyed your “thermostat hypothesis>”
..
There is a big difference between a PhD in math and a BA in psychology. Maybe you should focus on “massage.”
Satyendra, instead of indulging in spittle-flecked rants and calling everyone who reads WUWT “members of a circle jerk”, perhaps you’ll point out to us the spot on the web that you think is a better place for public peer review of climate science.
I see that you disagree with the papers published here on WUWT. However, you haven’t put up one single scientific objection to anything I’ve said on this post. Cat got your tongue?
You’ve made two other comments on WUWT. In one you accused Anthony of “name calling”, and in the other one you made a public appeal for someone to collaborate with you on your research. Yeah, that’s real impressive. Of course you don’t think peer-review goes on here, you haven’t mustered one objection to anything … well, anything but me and Anthony.
Next, Dr. Roy Spencer is one of my scientific heroes, but he was 100% wrong when he accused me of plagiarism. He a) didn’t understand what I was saying and b) didn’t do his homework. See my post “Dr. Roy Spencer’s Ill Considered Comments on Citizen Science” for details.
Finally, in the post above I said:
But given your inane comments above, I guess it’s not a surprise that you are abysmally stupid enough to totally ignore what I said and to continue to think that education makes a difference to whether a given claim is true. Wake up. Any given claim is either true or false, whether it is put forward by the college president or the college janitor. My education is immaterial.
w.
Willis, the “public” is not capable of peer reviewing any science.
…
You have not contributed a single iota of climate research. Commentary on actual scientific research is simply commentary, and not science. Spencer is a reputable scientist, you have yet to pay your dues to the scientific community. Your mistake is not being aware of previous research, which Spencer pointed out. Had you actually been schooled in climate science, you would not have make the mistake of a neophyte.
…
Why don’t you do some real science, you know…..like formulate a real hypothesis, collect data and publish?……..Instead of wasting your time on a “news and commentary” blog?
…
Blogs are not where science is done.
[Show us a list of YOUR peer reviewed papers. At least Willis has them, as do I. Oh wait, you’re too afraid of exposing your identity, right David? -Anthony]
“I see that you disagree with the papers published here on WUWT”
….
Are you serious? “Papers” published on a blog?
…
Dear Willis, grow up……….science isn’t done on BLOGS
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There is no peer review here, just a bunch of Yahoo’s who think they know “science.”
…
When you get folks like Schmidt and Mann (and others from the “real” world) submitting articles here, then you may be able to make the claim that this site is relevant. Absent their contributions here, this place is just a circle jerk.
[“science isn’t done on BLOGS” Well then lets immediately delete RealClimate.org and QuarkSoup. – Anthony]
Science isn’t done on blogs.
Myth busted.
https://judithcurry.com/?s=resplandy
So then why are you “here”?
“My education is immaterial.”
…
Your lack of relevant education is material. Your lack of education is the cause of you plagiarizing previous research as Spencer has pointed out.
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You can’t join the club unless you pay the dues.
…
And due to your lack of published papers of original research, you also lack “on the job experience.”
Ad Hominems are always indicator of lack of real arguments.
Neither Albert Einstein nor Srinivasa Ramanujan had relevant education, published papers of original research or on the job experience before they were finally recognized by herd science.
You mean Einstein had no relevant education, except for one of the most prestigious universities in the world, ETH? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich#Notable_alumni_and_faculty
[note -you’ve been banned a long time from this blog due to bad behavior -MOD]
Einstein was finally admitted at the Polytechnic Institute in Zurich (1896–1900) but was not recognized as any star https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1205/1205.4335.pdf
ETH Zurich didn’t have a single Nobel graduate at that time.
Must have been a very poor university not having one Nobel Laureate in 1900!
“On 10 December 1901 the first Nobel Prizes were awarded …”
https://www.nobelprize.org/
PhD does stand for pinhead and I assume by your comments you are a Certifiable PhD
Mr. Bhandari: The mod caught you out, but your posts scream american academic. Please forgive us plebians for being curious.
Hope that wasn’t too disgusting for you.
Additionally… the claim that science isn’t done on blogs, but rather done in scientific journals doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny these days. Satyendra, in case you haven’t been paying attention, science isn’t really done in journals anymore. Something like 70+% of everything published in peer review journals is wrong… all journals… in all branches of science.
“In one you accused Anthony of “name calling””
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Yes I did, he called someone a “jerk.” Is that not “name calling?”
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You however use the term “jerkwagon.” when you engage in the same disgusting behavior.
(I have caught you…. again, I think I know who you are, if you are what I suspect you to be, you must be a miserable person for repeatedly crashing this blog over and over, using Proxy servers and sometimes using someone else’s real name. Shame on you!) SUNMOD
Pass. Satyendra, clearly you’ve mistaken me for someone who cares about your bitter bile.
w.
PS—One correction to the record. You say:
You can’t even do simple research. I have a half-dozen peer-reviewed publications in the scientific journals, with over 130 citations.
w.
It’s okay Satyendra is just upset with his 1 citation.
Bhandari
You said, “… this site has not produced a single decent “idea” about climate, other than rejecting the established science.” Thank you for your unsupported opinion. [/sarc] With hundreds of articles and thousands of comments, it would be surprising if your claim was true. I suppose that means that articles by Stokes and Mosher are similarly not “decent.” Perhaps you wouldn’t recognize a “decent idea” if you saw one. It would be more interesting if you could supply some evidence to support your claim, in lieu of the insults that you seem to prefer.
“My question was, why is the climate so stable?”
The answer to that would be found in why and how it oscillates. Ocean phases and associated changes in cloud cover act as negative feedbacks with overshoot, to changes in climate forcing, particularly indirect solar variability.