As many WUWT readers know, there’s this push to “save the planet” by banning plastic straws. Like most liberal Earth saving fantasies, it’s rooted in shonky science, or in this case, no science at all, just a guess.
The plastic straw ban movement was started by a 9 year old kid named Milo Cress who made estimates from interviewing manufacturer representatives. Per the NYT: article:
“I came up with this statistic because I couldn’t find anything else about it. If there are other statistics on how many straws we use that are based on more rigorous research than the research that I did, I’m happy to embrace those.”
Fact check: The claim that 500 million straws are used by Americans is an estimate above the ranges of more rigorous studies. Market research firms put the figure between 170 million and 390 million per day, or 63 billion to 142 billion straws per year.
Adding fuel to the fire, in 2015, a video showing a sea turtle with a plastic straw up it’s nose became the focal point for the movement started by a made-up number.
Win one for feelings, but a loss for science. If the issue is plastic waste in the oceans, then this graph really tells the story of where plastic straw bans might be most effective.
But the real question is, how many plastic straws actually end up in the oceans?
Good luck with China.
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Hey… when they decide to BAN women’s little plastic tampon inserters … which probably made in the same quantities as plastic drinking straws… well, then we’ll have parity.
Or . . we could just recycle them – into straws.
no recycling needed if we use them as cocktail stirring sticks. yummy …
Nothing beats a good bloody Mary.
Snort! They used to be made of quickly-biodegradable cardboard….
They just happen to be the right size that I can use ’em as cigar holders! (got the idea from Bill Clinton)
Harvey Weinstein is a lot like Bill Clinton. Close but no cigar.
After a storm, those would wash-up on the beach in Santa Cruz.
Is it a requirement in the US that plastic straws are thrown into the river rather than the trash? I have never found plastic straws to be a main source of litter here in Canada.
I regularly pick up litter that others have thrown on the pavement. McD cartons and containers are comfortably first, followed by plastic bottles of all sizes and then crisp bags
Never ever a plastic straw. mind you paper ones used to be perfectly good enough, so plastic ones seem a bit of a waste of a useful material
tonyb
@tonyb
I can only guess that plastic straws are cheaper to use than paper. I can’t imagine a vendor deliberately using a product that would eat into the bottom line unless they were otherwise regulated into doing so.
Recently we have bought some paper straws for the retro novelty factor. They are horrible. The start to turn to mush before you can finish your drink. Hopefully where/when plastic straws are banned, they will be replaced with polylactide (corn plastic), and not those horrible paper straws.
No, can’t use corn plastic, corn must be used for ethanol.
I absolutely agree presuming you are fererring to ethanol that’s used in the making of many of our favorite drinks.
Sorry. The word should have been “referring.” The error was probably caused by my favorite type of ethanol, Kentucky bourbon.
Did you ever try to suck a thick milk shake through a paper straw? I though we were trying to save the trees.
Try a toilet paper roll for a straw on the thick shakes. 😉
Paper ones are only good if you make a point of drinking your drink quick, before the straw has a chance to get soggy.
If you coat the paper straw in wax in order to prevent this, then you have created another problem, just as big as the problem with plastic straws.
Back in the last century, paper straws were the norm and they were coated with wax and worked just fine.
Wax in general is a petroleum product. I suppose they could use ultra expensive bees wax coated straws for you.
Seems there sre various natural solutions to ensure paper straws don’t collapse
http://www.last-straw.org/the-solution/
I haven’t used a straw for years. Mind you, I have never seen the attraction of the sickly sweet very thick shakes they tend to be used for.
Tonyb
I feel so sorry for your taste buds… or lack there of…
We could always render whale blubber.
I doubt petroleum based “wax” biodegrades much faster than does plastic.
No, they got soggy and died. That’s why plastic straws completely dominate the market.
Paper straws get soggy and soon collapse under vacuum.
I keep and use a plastic straw for weeks.
Occasional rinsing is all that is necessary.
Then again, I drink very few sugary drinks. I do add a dash of tonic toda to water as I like the taste.
Or, it’s pots of plain tea; well as plain as puerh tea or silver tip jasmines can get. 🙂
Straws allow one to drink from the bottom of their cups/glasses, without chunks of ice sliding down trying to chip teeth or splash liquids around.
Just don’t suck so much. 🙂
In the Army, it used to be everyone else’s cigarette butts. Was always wondering why the a-holes that smoked didn’t stop throwing them on the ground.
In my retirement, I walk between four and nine miles per day, and like Tonyb, I pick up trash along the way, and during those periods, I have collected maybe two straws; so like everyone else, I was puzzled to hear about the alleged straw pollution problem.
Didn’t you even bother to read the article? People aren’t throwing their plastic straws out on to the street where you can find them, they are bundling them up and depositing them directly into the waterways.
You forgot the /sarc tag.
Yah! I always save mine and throw them directly into Puget Sound as I’m driving over the Deception Pass Bridge every day. Cut out the middleman, I always say.
I use them as fishing lures.
Fish just can’t resist them.
Neither can sea turtles.
Here’s the video from 2015 where an Olive Ridley sea turtle is found with a plastic straw up his nose:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2J2qdOrW44
Notice that toward the end of the video it says “Shortly after recording this video, we discovered a fork in the nose of another Olive Ridley sea turtle. Please click here to watch the rescue.”
Color me skeptical, but what are the odds? Either Olive Ridley sea turtles can’t help but snort every piece of plastic they encounter in the ocean, or these cruel bastards are jambing plastic crap into endangered turtles schnozzes just to promote an eco-nazi plastic ban.
Jeff in Calgary :
Nah ! We just grab a passing turtle and stick it up it’s nostril !
That way the beach-litter gets removed by the beach-litter of turtles !
Fortunately , the turtles are considerate enough to leave their discarded
egg-shells buried !! Of course , it helps if they’re GREEN TURTLES !!
If you want to dispose of a log……….well…….there’s always the loggerheads !
On the bright side, it is refreshing to see that a 9yo kid knows how to properly use a comma.
Say, whatever happened to paper straws? I guess they were probably waxed, or plastic-coated. Were they unsuitable for hot drinks? Or more expensive than plastic? Or just an inferior user experience, if you took too long to drink your beverage?
until I see video of that interview, I’m inclined to believe his guardians made the comment. This reeks of helicopter greeny mommy/daddy move to gain credibility in their inner fart-sniffing circles
oh, the perspicacity! awesome comment nailed it. display your sapiens badge with pride!
On local Seattle radio, they played back the interview with the kid from that time, and he sounded remarkably well-spoken for a 9 year old. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t coached, but he wasn’t hesitating with the words.
As for the correct comma usage, I think that was a transcription, not words he typed up.
“Say, whatever happened to paper straws?”
They fall apart easily.
The modern left just hate anything successful and want us all to go back to living in mud huts and burning down forests ‘for the environment!’
Why not use – well er maybe umm – Straws? Or will that destroy all our eco ReedBeds? Just as thatched cottages do. Can’t have that can we?
https://www.brushwithbamboo.com/shop/bamboostraws/
http://www.harveststraws.com/
No, they want you to live in a mud hut. They are very happy with their current accommodations, and their limos, and their yachts, and their private jets. Your SUV, and your air conditioning, and your plastic straws are the problem.
You don’t know how close to the truth you are. I did a research paper back in the mid 90’s where I discovered that the Greens believe that 96% of humanity should be eliminated for the sake of the earth. (‘200 million is the optimum human population’) and all humans should be removed from the land in the Western United States between the Sierras/Cascades and the Rockies. My instructor said of my paper “I never heard anything like that!” Even then college professors were living in a leftist bubble. At least back then, you didn’t get punished for not regurgitating the party line. I received an A for class.
We call those people “mud hutters”.
paper straw manufacturing- wow- 8 straws a minute- that’ll get you a hundred fifty million a day- if you start that day 35 years ago….lol what a dirty job picking them up off the floor…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqu6cLr-6jg
or you can use the extruder and plastic pellets by the ton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjdNY0KCnmk
that’ll get you a soda catheter to suck fast enough!
of course millenials might want to make their own- they can pretend they did work.
the virtue signalling is priceless!
http://www.lookatwhatimade.net/crafts/paper/make-your-own-paper-drinking-straws/
They don’t work for milkshakes, smoothies, etc.
I got empirical proof of that a few weeks ago when spending a day at the beach in Malibu. And no, I don’t live there, I’m of the great unwashed who go there from time to time to see how the libs live. Anyway, we had lunch at a hoity toity burger place that got rid of plastic straws, where my wife got a milkshake. She had to intentionally ask for a straw, which was paper; the straw didn’t last through the second attempt to take a sip, collapsed utterly. Ended up asking for a spoon, which took a minute to get cuz the kid didn’t know where the owner had hidden all the plastic spoons. I shudder in horror to know what is going to happen to my favorite boba shops…
OK, I’ll bite…What is a “boba shop” ??
Never mind !!
“What the Heck is “Boba”?
https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/heck-boba
D’OH !
It’s not Boba Shop. It’s Boba Fet. D’uuuuhhhh!
rip
What? Boba’s feet?
Sigh. Boba Fett. Son of Jango Fett. Best bounty hunter in the Galaxy.
Rhee
I fear for our young mothers and fathers sanity these days.
They’re not allowed to use disposable nappies because they’re not environmentally friendly so will be forced back to terry towling nappies (sorry diapers) with the nasty little plastic pants that caused all the chafing. Nappy rash will once again be the talking point of cocktail parties, and the sales of lotions and potions will sky rocket.
All those soiled terry towling nappies must, of course, be carried home in a suitable container so’s not to stink up an entire car, so back to the ‘reusable’ plastic bag. Bought specially for the purpose as plastic shopping bags have now been virtually outlawed. More expense and more bulk to carry.
Disposable wipes are no longer acceptable as flush away items, so it’ll be back to carrying damp sponges (in specially bought plastic bags that must be washed and reused) which will inevitably end up in landfill after 3 or 4 uses cos they begin to pong a bit.
Then there’s the lotions and potions, but now created by CoCo Chanel and Hugo Boss, just so the little darlings can feel good about themselves, other than the Nappy rash. If there’s two kids of different gender, that’s a bottle of each that must be carried. And of course, they’ll never be finished (come on guys, how many bottles of after shave do you have that are years old and still half full!?).
Plastic straws of course stopped the little darling spilling the contents of their drink down their front so more clothing will have to be carried. More spills mean more washing, so it kind of defeats the purpose, but hey ho. Immovable stains will of course mean a new outfit for the little treasure as one couldn’t possibly do anything more energetic than chucking it in a washing machine which won’t get rid of the stain.
They’ll be forced to buy hygienic stainless steel straws instead of plastic, and of course, that will need to be at least two per child in case of loss. Of course children being children, they’ll be brandished as weapons or a means of bodily exploration at the first opportunity, so more hospital visits for eye and ear injuries etc.
Then they’ll be forced to buy reusable Sporks for the darlings as restaurants won’t hand out plastic spoons, two apiece once again. Unfortunately, there’s all the individual washing effort associated with that lot as well. I suspect a fair number of rudimentary carved initials and stick figures will consign restaurant table tops to the bin as well.
Pretty soon, Mum’s and Dad’s will be back to lugging massive bags around with them just for a day out instead of a couple of disposable nappies and a pack of baby wipes.
This isn’t going to go well.
the breeding phase is still in the future when they figure out it’s a way to get a new political playing card: the babby card – it gets u respeck and charity and it’s the way a fluffy headed female can claim her majority. it’s how they will become matriarchs (fag hags, too) with an entourage of codependent soybois.
they haven’t discovered the trick yet.
for now, breeding is not on – they still have to sort out which bathroom to use and reproduction is as evil as critical thinking.
it’s still simulated sex with the digestive tract…lol
That is actually a problem with behavioral and psychological studies on babies and children. I can’t believe how many studies I have seen that cause my eyes to roll. How stupid I think. But then I realize, these studies are being done by students in college trying to get their degrees in their various fields. they design these studies, but never have had children of their own – they are still young students after all, so they have no context. If every child behaviorists was forced to have kids before getting their degree a lot of these studies wouldn’t be done.
marque2
EEK! Forcing child behaviourists to have children sounds, well, unsavoury.
The rest, I agree with.
HS,
I thought we had decided straws would be made of collagen calcium phosphate or enameled dentine?
rip
rip
We did, but just too difficult to explain when so much else was at stake.
Sorry, I feel I have betrayed you now, but it was necessary for the collective good.
OMG! I sound like a socialist!
Wire brush and Dettol for my mouth please, quickly!!!!!!
“…Disposable wipes are no longer acceptable as flush away items…”
For good reason. Nightmare for sanitary sewer systems. Do you want your sewage backing up onto streets like a 3rd world country?
Michael Jankowski
There is at least one make of disposable wipe on the market which is 90% water. They disintegrate faster than toilet paper when immersed in water.
Leave San Francisco outof it.
I saw one report that stated paper straws were considerably more expensive than plastic and, of course probably not as durable during use. For quadriplegics the latter would be a significant issue.
They’ll just have to suck it up.
paper straws? We had to stop using them to Save the Trees©
It’s all a cycle that usually involves greens blundering about bumping their heads on things in their rush to act on something – at some point they’ll be overheard saying ‘no, wait..’ before they change direction and stumble blindly into the next mess they created.
Being old enough to remember paper straws, I can tell you it was not a good experience. Just try and finish a large milk shake using one. They collapse before you finish the shake. Then you have to tear off the collapsed end of the straw and stick your face nearly into the shake cup to get the straw down far enough to finish.
I remember them from long ago. For some reason they were really skinny too. the new ones make from biodegradable corn starch polymers hold up a bit better, but they have an incredibly rough mouth feel.
With paper straws, the larger they are, the easier they collapse when being sucked on.
You people suck!
/jk
shouldn’t this guy be working or producing something?
amazing how takers are always willing to use others money to force makers to not make.. maybe they are jealous they don’t have the capacity to compete and produce.
I think there has been a newer study that puts more than 90% of waste in the ocean comes from 10 rivers, 9 in asia and one in africa… But according to the graph above, it looks like the USA is contributing 1% but I am thinking that it leaves out a large number of contributors that are above the United States on waste reaching the oceans…
So true:
“The researchers have also calculated that the ten river systems with the highest plastic loads (eight of them are in Asia and two in Africa) – areas in which hundreds of millions of people live, in some cases – are responsible for around 90 percent of the global input of plastic into the sea.”
http://www.ufz.de/index.php?en=36336&webc_pm=34%2F2017
And to make it even more unbelievable:
SHOCKER: RECYCLING PLASTIC IS MAKING OCEAN LITTER WORSE
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/28/shocker-recycling-plastic-is-making-ocean-litter-worse/
* Most of the plastic waste comes from just a few countries, mostly in Asia and Africa.
* 25% is “leakage” from Asian waste management processes — the rest is waste that has never been collected, but is simply thrown into rivers.
* But European countries ship inject huge quantities of waste into Asian waste management streams, ostensibly for recycling. As much as 20% — millions of tons every year — ends up in the oceans and will continue to do so.
* Since the Chinese banned waste imports at the start of the year, shipments have been diverted to other Asian countries with even weaker environmental controls (Figure 1).
* EU recycling is therefore a major contributor to marine waste and increasing recycling will therefore simply increase marine litter.
I have seen that, but also an article that seemed well-researched that said that 40% or more of the plastic in the oceans is from discarded fishing gear. There seems to be no reliable estimates at all, of what is actually going on.
So let’s blame companies we don’t like already (like McDonalds), get them to do something rather than us, and then feel really virtuous and good about ourselves. Meanwhile, the real problem gets worse and worse.
That’s modern activism for you.
Where is the green swat team to go out and get pictures of these river outlets and nearby beaches? Or are those also state secrets in China?
There are about 330 million people in the US. Most of them do NOT use a straw each and every day. I use about a straw every couple of weeks.
As a result, when I saw the “500 million straws a day”, I said “hogwash”, or some slightly stronger word. That’s 1.5 straws for every man, woman, and child in the US every single day of the year, and that’s simply not happening.
w.
Doesn’t pass the sniff test…
I think these numbers also include the little stir-straws used at bars and coffee shops.
Even with those, it’s still way to high.
Paul P.,
I recall using one of those about 6 years ago. None since then.
I’ll ditto Willis with about 2 to 3 straws per month. Usually those appear when on a shopping +other trip that’s more than an hour from home.
Willis
“As a result, when I saw the “500 million straws a day”, I said “hogwash”, or some slightly stronger word. That’s 1.5 straws for every man, woman, and child in the US every single day of the year, and that’s simply not happening.”
500 million straws a day at about 12 oz of liquid per straw usage per day works out to only about 18 oz of liquid per person in the US per day. Seems perfectly plausible to me 😉
Since many millions don’t use even one day, who is using multiples a day then?
I’ll take one for the team at the local bar. Lessee… 8 drinks with 2 cocktail straws per drink covers 7-8 people who don’t use straws.
I’m doing my part. Let’s all pitch in and raise our straw usage. All the other countries are kicking our U.S. a$$es in generating plastic waste. Are we gonna stand for that?!
I have not used ten straws in the past 18 years.
But, I do stir my coffee at 7-Eleven using those swizzle stick dealios.
I typically use two to get the job done faster.
But some places have wooden ones.
I am sure wood or paper will be unacceptable to the bars and taverns of the world.
This is gonna get ugly is anyone goes to jail.
My guess is it gets overturned in no time flat.
The vast majority of time people drink liquids, they aren’t using a straw of any kind.
MarkW
No idea why, but an image of politicians with their snouts snuffling in the trough indelibly etched itself into my mind when I read your comment.
bitter experience????
MarkW
Current experience. Theresa May and her cabinet for one.
. McDonald’s feeds 68 million people per day http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/04/30/13-Disturbing-Facts-About-McDonalds
https://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/top-50-breakdown-market-segments#burger
adding the sales and dividing by the ‘mcdonald’s factor’ indicates @ur momisugly 148 million burgers per day from the top 16 burger franchises. dunno about the percentage of drive-thru customers who automatically get one straw per drink so they can punch thru the lid.
there are a lot of people stopping by the convenience store for a soda, too.
so 500 million is really not incredible at all
consider there are nearly half a billion soda cans made daily one can see there is a whole lotta drinkn goin on!
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Aluminum-Beverage-Can.html
My wife found me on Ebay the other day and asked what I was buying .. “straws, lots of straws” I muttered. She took some time to regain her composure and reminded me I despised straws and never used the things. I explained my sacrifice – if I only succeed in upsetting one greenie then the price of the straws will be worth it.
(and they’re also damned good for measuring and mixing the sorts of chemicals, resins and other things I’d rather not stick my fingers in)
Karlos51
Your wife found you on eBay!?
How much did she pay for you?
Karlos51 must be a Russian mail order groom. Good work if you can get it 🙂
Reg Nelson
ROTFL
Sorry Karlos51, I couldn’t resist.
🙂
These days we need our humor where ever we can find it.
MarkW
That…..didn’t……actually…….make you smile did it Mark?
I think that might be a first for me.
🙂
close, really, really close
Comedy is not pretty.
Neither are most comedians.
I use straws about as often as you do, and my initial thought was the same as yours. OTOH, I’ll bet every school lunch, and most restaurant and cafeteria meals, come with a straw.
This site puts U.S. restaurant revenue at $800 billion / year:
https://www.restaurant.org/Downloads/PDFs/News-Research/Pocket_Factbook_FEB_2017-FINAL.pdf
That’s $2.2 billion per day. If the average cost of a restaurant meal is $10 (that’s just a WAG), that’s 220 million meals per day, and most of them probably include a straw.
So 500 million does seem high, but the right order of magnitude, and probably a lot closer to reality than climate alarmists’ sea-level projections.
Dave–most sit down w/ waitress that I visit do put a straw down with the drink–never use it, but wonder now if it is thrown away with the rest of the meal refuse even if still in the wrapper?? Anyway, seems to me to be a major concern when compared to some of the other recent “news” (sarc if needed)
I’m sure that sanitation regulations require the straw to be tossed.
There are also juice boxes. My kids used to go through 2 or 3 of those a day, each.
Those are smaller straws, though, so 3 ~= 1 normal size
Pretty sure the ratio is a higher than that.
MarkW
That’s OK though, the virtue signalling greens jogging round the streets swilling from their disposable plastic bottles is perfectly acceptable.
And I regularly watch immigrant families walking out our supermarkets with trolleys full of bottled water, yet the UK has probably the cleanest tap water in the world.
I really don’t get bottled water.
It costs more money than tap water, therefor it’s better than tap water.
That’s my interpretation at least.
Of course, water without chlorine and fluoride does taste a lot better.
Greg Cavanagh
As I understand it, much bottled water has everything filtered out including minerals that, in the UK at least, are retained in tap water.
Personally, I can’t taste chlorine in our tap water but it seems to have an indefinable depth, perhaps even flavour, whereas I find bottled water is tasteless and ‘thin’.
Perhaps it’s just perception. Each to his own.
Willis Eschenbach
I refuse to use straws, plastic, paper or otherwise cos I’m all growed up and can get a cup from a table to my mouth without a problem.
Airplane: [Ted]”And that, as much as anything, led to my drinking problem.”
D. J. Hawkins
Doubtless a non PC movie these days.
Heard down at the pub….
Q: “Do you have a drinking problem, young man?
A: “No. I can hit my mouth every time!”
How’s that work for milkshakes? Smoothies? Sodas with crushed ice?
Kevin
If you’re an adult drinking something that needs a straw, you probably shouldn’t be drinking it as it’s likely full of sugar and bound to make you fat; like milkshakes, smoothies, and sodas with crushed ice. Nor do I understand why you feel the need to capitalise “Smoothies” and “Sodas”.
Have some dignity and drink a cup of tea from a cup, ideally with a saucer.
PS …… “How’s” is an abbreviation for ‘How is” not ‘How does’. Just a heads up, I’m far from perfect at spelling and grammar.
A question mark denotes the end of a sentence. The next word should have a capital letter. Judge not…
Airlie Beach Illusion
Not according to my English teacher (who was actually Scottish) when one is compiling a list punctuated by question marks.
And rarely does a single word conform to the concept of a ‘sentence’ I think there are some but right now I cant think of one.
Anyway, a sentence:
“a set of words that is complete in itself, typically containing a subject and predicate, conveying a statement, question, exclamation, or command, and consisting of a main clause and sometimes one or more subordinate clauses.”
I’m not sure that works for “Smoothies? Sodas with crushed ice?” particularly when the examples given begin with “milkshakes” without a capital ‘M’.
If nothing else, in my experience, the English language should be consistent.
Judge me if you wish.
HotScot. I have a beard and moustache. Using a straw with a milkshake is much cleaner. However, a major problem is authorities inability to compromise in so many areas. Issues are yes or no, because “sometimes” is difficult to legislate.
BTW, I think criticism in blogs should be reserved for factual mistakes.
Airlie Beach Illusion
I used to have an impressive moustache, beer was never a problem. 🙂
In my opinion, a great deal of petty legislation, like plastic straws, should be tossed into the bin (no pun intended) as it’s merely designed to protect the idiots from themselves. My enduring refrain s that the western world is being overrun by minority interest groups forcefully promoting their agendas, and the politicians forget their responsibility to the democratic majority.
And whilst I largely agree with you about criticism’s, I pointed out Kevin’s grammatical faux pas to him merely as a “heads up”.
criticism’s
Wrong use of apostrophe11
Yup.
Shoulda quit while you were ahead, Scottie me lad.
Menicholas
I wasn’t aware it was a competition.
And where’s Panama on the list?(rhetorical) I love the country and the people,but their trash problem has to be seen to be believed. Way worse than Baja California,which I have traveled many times, and it’s not good.
In the Sonoran Desert of Mexico the trash from open dumps blows in the wind to be caught on cactus and in fences. There isn’t much water around so the wind does the work.
Where is India in this distribution?
This has nothing whatsoever to do with plastic straws or any other kind of plastic- it’s to do with how people dispose of them after they use them FFS.
Not really. It’s really all about exercising green power…
India must be doing a good job. 😉
Start the stockpiling operations in vacant closets and attics.
The sh****le countries are again the usual suspects.
As an aside, my area of the Gulf has been experiencing about a month or more of dead sea life from red tide. This all started with heavy rains back in June which overwhelmed the sewer system in St Petersburg and dumped all that sewage out into the Bay and Gulf. Normal tides and wind have pushed all that pollution down my way where it gets trapped by currents. This particular bloom was feed by that pollution but no one will place the blame there because of possible law suits over the crumbling, unfixable sewer system in St Pete. It can never be fixed properly and will only get worse. Where can I go that has no hurricanes, no red tide, no vibrio, no dangerous sea life, no tornadoes, no ice storms, no flooding or any other natural disasters. Vegas here I come.
When civilization breaks down, you’ll be left **without** any fresh water to drink and **with** desert heat — much worse than any of the other possibilities you mentioned.
Do you think I would stay put without water? C’mon, that is progressive type thinking that no one can adjust and will just die without a fight. Besides, there are only 18 years left before Apophis hits the Earth and wipes us all out.
As to red tide it was cultured quite awhile ago (Ray, S. M. and W. B. Wilson. 1957. Effects of unialgal and bacteria free cultures of Gymnodium brevis on fish and notes on related studies with bacteria. Fishery Bulletin, U. S. 57:469-496) and while I am not up on the literature last I read had lots of connections but not much certainty. Ray died a couple of years ago at age 94 very much concerned about the state of marine science. This one is interesting given the recent dust, a connection first made in the 1970s. (Walsh, J. J. And K. A. Steidinger. 2001. Saharan dust and Florida red tides: the cyanophyte connection. Journal Geophysical Research. 106(C6):11597-11612) Always helps to have organic pollution, things bloom not always to our choosing.
As to organizations parasitic on others (no offense to the smarter parasites) all these pretty pictures of the dying ocean are always interesting as on a recent 2018 calendar that I was just shown and also on their website. “The ocean today is under an unprecedented assault. Half of the ocean’s species have disappeared in the last 45 years.” 45 years is the period the Ocean Conservancy has “…campaigned to safeguard the ocean….” I guess they failed. This is an interesting post on their website—- https://oceanconservancy.org/blog/2018/07/26/newly-discovered-shark-species-named-late-shark-lady/ They no doubt ignored this—
http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2018/07/extinction-honest-science/
“Ocean Conservancy is a 501(c)3 – Donations are 100% tax-deductible as allowed by law.” Does that law allow false advertising? You can also sign up for ocean alerts for your cell phone, sea monster attacks I suppose, if they are not part of the 50%.
There are pieces of plastic a sea turtle might mistake for a jellyfish, not straws. Ridleys love crabs.
HD, Gymnodium brevis is common around Maine….we have Karenia brevis here in the Gulf….it forms way off shore where there’s no pollution….iron in African dust does it
Yes I am aware of what causes the usual red tide. I have been through many outbreaks here on the Gulf Coast. But this one is the longest and strongest I have ever experienced. And it all started when a probably normal red tide outbreak was coming but it was super fueled by all the crap that flushed out from St Pete. I am very sensitive to the respiratory discomfort it causes and cannot get within about 1/4 mile of the beach. But this one, I was able to walk right down to the water’s edge with only slight effects. The water was filthy and smelly, not from red tide but from sewage.
“1878 — Florida’s first protracted period of red-tide episodes begins and continues for 10 years.”
http://crca.caloosahatchee.org/crca_docs/Heraldtribune_Timeline.pdf
Tom, I was replying to HD
Latitude, good post on red tide. I spent the first two thirds of my career trying to avoid involvement in red tide (K. brevis) issues but it caught up with me the last third. Red tides were reported as far back as when the Spanish arrived (no I don’t have the reference.) A lot of money has been spent trying to blame some nutrient source, sewage, phosphate, nitrogen, even trace minerals to my understanding none were determined to be a causative agent. Red tide in the Gulf, it also can go around to the SE Florida Coast entrained in the Florida Current, start offshore apparently concentrated by eddy formation associated with the Loop Current. Those eddies often intruded on the the West Florida Shelf causing all sorts of problems. It is when they make it to the coast that it hits the news and politicians get involved. If conditions are “right,” often during a drought, the “tide” stays around for weeks, months, etc. Interestingly one of the worst red tide for offshore reef fish took place under a thermocline, never made it to the coast and wiped out reefs along the SW Florida Coast. The good news was it allowed researchers to study “re-recruitment” back on natural reefs. K. brevis, was renamed for Dr. Karen Steidinger, who was once my boss and who later worked for me.
Tom, do not discount the unusually dry dry season we had, which began right after the hurricane and produced almost zero rain for many spots in S. Florida until May or so.
When it does rain after such a long dry spell, all the pet waste and excess fertilizer and all the other stray nutrients that accumulated for all those months is flushed out pretty much all at once, instead of more gradually like in a normal year.
I would wager that had a lot to do with it.
Tom, oddly enough…the nutrients you’re talking about…make Karenia brevis (red tide) less toxic
This bloom actually started off the coast of Texas…from African dust (iron)….currents pushed it over to you…African dust moved over with it and fed it…and the wind pushed it on shore
See my answer to you above.
” super fueled by all the crap that flushed out from St Pete”…and it probably made it less toxic
‘Increased Toxicity of Karenia brevis during Phosphate Limited Growth: Ecological and Evolutionary Implications’
“Intracellular PbTx concentrations (fg/µm3) increased by up to 2.5-fold during N-limited growth”
“Karenia brevis responds to P- and N-limitation by increasing all brevetoxin congeners”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3595287/
Tom in Florida
Scotland!
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Tom in Florida
Not a shark in sight though. A few storms but rarely hurricanes, never heard of an ice storm, definitely no tornado’s, and no flooding or natural disasters.
Plenty of sharks in Vegas though, and as Billy Connelly said “there’s no such thing in Scotland as bad weather, it’s just bad clothing” (paraphrasing).
HotScot, I wouldn’t want to find that sand-trap — might never get out!
“Where can I go that has no…”
The Simpson Desert has none of those.
Bans like this are based on the police power of government and it is generally forgotten that the police power under Anglo/American law is not unlimited. Often it is limited to controlling things that touch on the health, safety, welfare and morals of the community. If a law cannot reasonably be anchored on one of those it may be void. In this case, it could be argued that the law has no provable impact on the harm it purports to avoid and is, itself, unlawful. I would like to see manufacturers consider litigation against city governments along these lines. Time to turn back municipal abuse of the police power.
I am with you Rachelle.
The jail time allowed for this offense makes it reek of overreach.
There is no reason and no justification for banning a harmless item that by the way could not possibly be a significant problem.
Thank you. In addition to lack of reason and justification I think the city also lacks the fundamental legal authority to pass an inane law under the police power. We easily recognize the limited authority if we imagine the city making it a felony or death penalty case for any infraction. They can’t. Only the state legislature can make an act a felony. Similarly, the limited police power a city does possess does not give it scope to enact foolish ordinances. In law books it is sometimes explained with the hypothetical example that a city cannot outlaw plaid pants. Such a law would have no connection with the health, safety, welfare and morals of the people and therefor not a legitimate use of the police power. Sometimes lawyers get stupidly conceived laws like this voided for exactly the reasons I just gave. A manufacturer should sue them and put them to the proof.
As a bass fisherman, I spend quite a bit of time on rivers. There’s not a huge amount of floating trash, but in the piles I do see I don’t recall seeing a plastic straw. It’s mostly plastic bottles. LOTS of them. Tell me, does California ban plastic bottles?
Of course not…they got away with this one because it is something that most people can easily imagine doing without, and few rely on straws in their daily life.
IOW…no one is greatly inconvenienced by this, except some handicapped folks, bartenders and triple thick shake vendors, and the poor slobs that work in or own straw factories…which are probably all in china anywho.
But plastic water bottles, or anything that people use everyday and would be terribly inconvenient to do without…no chance of a ban there.
yeah, a 9 yr old said that….
He’s a 9 year old climate scientist?
One of the senior ones…
Yeah, it seems inconsistent. How could a child that age be smart enough to write that well, yet foolish enough to embark on such a silly campaign?
I’ve met a kid about that age who was very well-spoken, even by adult standards, and I’ll bet he could write that well. But he was homeschooled, and from a conservative Christian family, and he presumably was not so foolish.
I agree…zero chance a 9 year old wrote that.
This story feeds into the myth of a massive floating plastic island
in the Pacific. I have used Skip Hanson’s post on the myth to inform
my grandchildren and some neighbors of the truth. I appreciate Skip’s
article for the help.
Yes, has anyone ever seen an aerial photo of this Texas-sized island? I never have, but am willing to believe when I see it.
And if its all concentrated there, why doesn’t Greenpeace find a way to scoop it all up?
I think you mean Kip Hansen, right? And this article?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/12/17/an-ocean-of-plastic/
I did mean Kip. Thanks and apologies to Kip.
The Scorpion team not only found a giant floating plastic island in the Pacific, they destroyed it with some super plastic-eating bacteria…no doubt kin to the actual plastic-eating bacteria that prevents Texas-sized islands of plastic from forming in the first place.
In the UK a proposed straw ban follows hard on the heels of bans on free plastic bags in supermarkets, and bans on plastic micro-beads in cosmetics/cleaners. All vigorously campaigned for by the BBC, despite no evidence of serious harm or that the bans will make any significant difference to what is essentially a litter problem, not a pollution problem.
People don’t seem to have cottoned on yet that the activists are just going through a list, one item at a time. They don’t intend to stop until all plastics (not even clearly defined, but who cares?) are banned. It is no coincidence that plastics are just another immensely useful product of the petroleum/fossil fuel industry. Once again industry seems to just bend over and take it, as the greens and the BBC systematically set about trying to destroy another pillar of the industrial revolution.
Yes, I do find it strange in the UK that we can just ban things when Greens make a fuss and there are no concerns about jobs, but when it’s something like Brexit, it’s all jobs, jobs, jobs.
The hypocrisy knows no bounds these days.
Plastic straws — more bread and circuses.
I’ve seen unspeakable garbage floating by on the East River in NY. That was not so far from the NYT.
Virtue signaling through and through.
Like most environmental problems, this ocean garbage was caused by environmentalists with their longstanding opposition to burning refuse. –AGF
Straws !
Just slurp your beverage over the rim, and, please, for the love of God, step away from the sippie cup.
Why have adults become such babies about how they take in fluids?
LOL … I’ve never been in a biker bar, pool hall, or honky-tonk and saw someone drinking a beer from a straw. Must be some kind of redneck thing!
Real men and real women don’t use straws. (^_^)
I’d love to see the reaction of people in a biker bar to someone walking up to the bartender, asking that the beer be dispensed into his insulated sippie cup … something like, U ain’t frum ’round heer R U, boy?
Crazy. If plastic straws are an issue, there historically have been many alternatives. The most common was the waxed paper straws used up to the 1950’s. At one point there were also hard macaroni straws but which were prone to breakage. There should numerous alternatives without getting rid of straws.
Make ’em from tempered glass. Then they could be used as crack pipes! It could spike sales of fountain drinks.
I suppose the only sesnsible, sustainable choice is to switch to non-disposable straws. They will need to be washable, and sturdy enough to withstand repeated uses. And, since these will be permanent(ish) additions to our everyday-carry, I’d imagine we’ll want them made out of suitably aesthetic materials.
We also need to bear in mind that these materials will need to be environmentally friendly in order to prevent catastrophe should one find it’s way back into the wild. So, aesthetically pleasing yet environmentally friendly? Hmm…whalebone and ivory would probably work wonderfully.
rip
rip
Cow bones?
Or elephant ivory. Better use than this:
I bought some insulated cups, stainless steel jobbies with a vacuum between two layers of metal, and they came with groovy stainless steel straws.
But no one is gonna carry around a SS straw, and bet they are too expensive to give away.
Menicholas
I’ll bet it’s fun trying to sip a nice hot drink through a S/S straw! 🙂