This will be a top “sticky” post for awhile since interest is high – new stories will appear below this one – Anthony
UPDATE: Josh channels the boat people
UPDATE2: Another irony is discovered, this one doubly deep. See update 2 below.
UPDATE4: AMSA: Helicopter rescue of Akademik Shokalskiy likely to commence shortly
(It’s off again, then now its on again, with report the helicopter has landed)
UPDATE5: All the passengers (tourists and scientists) are off the ship
UPDATE6: Tough questions need to be asked
UPDATE7: Trouble on the rescue ship – reaching open water not so easy

As we reported previously on WUWT here and here, the saga of the “climate scientists/tourists trapped in ice” continues to fascinate many. Now a second ship has given up on rescue, after the Chinese ship “Snow Dragon” gave up two days ago. The Aurora Australis has abandoned rescue of the trapped Russian “research”vessel in Antarctica and a helicopter evacuation in now being ordered. This episode has taken on a heightened comedic fiasco-like quality.
Now, with such a fantastic failure in full world view, questions are going to start being asked. For example, with advanced tools at their disposal (that Mawson never had) such as near real-time satellite imaging of Antarctic sea ice, GPS navigation, on-board Internet, radar, and satellite communications, one wonders how these folks managed to get themselves stuck at all. Was it simple incompetence of ignoring the signs and data at their disposal combined with “full steam ahead” fever? Even the captain of the Aurora Australis had the good sense to turn back knowing he’d reached the limits of the ship on his rescue attempt. Or, was it some sort of publicity stunt to draw attention? If it was the latter, it has backfired mightily.
One might argue that with photos like the one below, this whole “Spirit of Mawson” research expedition, is little more than a media stunt.
Source: [ http://twitter.com/GdnAntarctica/status/412977161323036672 ]
Even after the ship was trapped, these reporters still had a party like atmosphere going on:
Source: [ http://twitter.com/GdnAntarctica/status/416881634273525761/photo/1 ]
Yesterday, Andrew Revkin tweeted something that I agreed with, especially since so many of the people trapped in the ice on the ship seem to have a nonchalant, almost partly-like atmosphere going on.
Scientist on trapped Antarctic ship: "Fantastic-I love it when the ice wins & we don't." http://t.co/UsxA2tiV2i What about rescue risk/cost?
— Andrew Revkin 🌎 ✍🏼 🪕 ☮️ (@Revkin) December 29, 2013
Yes, the cost and risk is significant. These folks trapped on-board don’t seem to be cognizant of that issue, following the #spiritofmawson Twitter feed, it’s like watching reports (with pictures and video) from a high school class party.
And here’s the kicker. Even the public saw through the charade at the beginning. Trying to get crowd funding from the public for this trip failed miserably as this Indigogo campaign shows:
Source: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-us-return-to-mawson-s-antarctic-hut-the-home-of-the-blizzard
Maybe it had to do with the ridiculous image of Professor Chris Turney in full cold weather gear standing in the midst of a tropical forest.
Right after the ship got stuck and there was a realization that the world was watching, one scientist on-board, Dr. Chris Fogwill, of the University of New South Wales, decided that it would be an opportune time to hit the public for money again:
Source: http://www.spiritofmawson.com/
And again, the public has seen through this, and today, the campaign remains stuck at $1000 with just a few donors. People are realizing that there’s no real science being done on this trip, and that it seems to be little more than a chartered party boat for Antarctic enthusiasts and media.
Now, with the ship to be evacuated via helicopter, will the Akademik Shokalskiy join the list of recent ships that have been sunk in Antarctic waters?
Ships that have sunk in Antarctic waters in recent years (h/t to David Archibald)
The Brazilian yacht “Endless Sea” sank in Maxwell Bay, Ardley Cove on Saturday 7th April, 2012. It was used for “scientific and educational expeditions”.
The sunken remains of the 76-ft Mar Sem Fin, aka “Endless Sea”, which sunk on April 7, 2012, lies at a depth of about 9 meters (30 ft) in Ardley Cove, Antarctica.
In November 2007, the Linblad Explorer hit sea ice and sank.
In April 2013, the Chinese factory fishing ship Kai Xin caught fire and sank near Bransfield Strait at the Antarctic Peninsula.
And there are others, these are just a few recent ones.
With so much concern for the pristine environment of Antarctica, one wonders how much environmental damage these sinkings are doing.
And when the trip is nothing more than a party for your friends and media, disguised as a “scientific expedition”, one wonders if there shouldn’t be some moratorium on such trips.
Richard Tol summed it all up nicely with one sentence:
There has been a strong and statistically significant upward trend in climate-change-related public-relations disasters #spiritofmawson
— Richard Tol (@RichardTol) December 30, 2013
UPDATE:
The #spiritofmawson hashtag is now getting competition from the hashtag #ClitanicDisaster in honor of the trapped climate scientists that the MSM won’t mention as being climate scientists.
========================================================
UPDATE 2:
reader Aphan writes on 2013/12/31 at 7:16 pm
I don’t know if anyone was posted this yet, but the IRONY just gobsmacked me.
The British “explorers” on board the MV Explorer who were “commemorating the Spirit of Shackleton” found themselves repeating HIS adventure when their ship struck a piece of submerged ice and then SANK in the Antarctic in November of 2007! None of the passengers or crew were lost. But HOW AMAZING is it that both the “Spirit of Mawson” trip AND the “Spirit of Shackleton” cruise trips ended in disaster from sea ice?????
http://www.jamescairdsociety.com/shackleton-news-104519.htm
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/news/explorer-sinks-antarctica.html
I mean…come on. What are the odds?
============================================================
Related articles
- Saving the Antarctic scientists, er media, er, activists, er tourists trapped by sea ice (wattsupwiththat.com)
- Antarctic rescue mission fails to reach trapped ship (theguardian.com)




Canada’s National Post newspaper has a softball article on the ice-bound ship:
“Scientists trapped in Antarctic ice await dramatic helicopter rescue after week spent ‘singing with the seals’”
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/01/scientists-trapped-in-antarctic-ice-await-dramatic-helicopter-rescue-after-week-spent-singing-with-the-seals/
What struck me about this article was this sentence: “The passengers, mostly scientists and volunteers, would be shuttled a dozen at a time in an estimated seven flights — journeys that would span about five hours until the rescue was complete, the authority said. The 22-person crew would stay with the ship.”
“Mostly scientists and volunteers”?! Hardly!
@ur momisugly Katabasis

The clearest indication of editorial intent I ever saw on climate change from the MSM was in response to this article in The Age of Melbourne, Victoria 2009.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/sceptics-find-comfort-in-cost-of-change-20091211-kojb.html
When I realised comment order was being altered, I collated the responses and rated them as being either positive or negative toward A.G.W, then did cumulative frequency graphs.
In chronological order, it looked like this…
In editorial order, positive comment was pushed to the front, negative comment to the rear and this was the result…
After that, I never had any doubt there was an agenda.
I’m only through the first 200 comments but have been wondering if there is a protocol for who gets eaten first,(crew, scientist, or journ-o-list?
Glenn says:
January 1, 2014 at 7:55 pm
Dirk H,
“I would encourage you to actually look up the definition of “The Scientific Method”. You might also want to consider the level and complexity of the math that actually goes into the field. Climate Science is not based on the idea that “humans cause global warming, lets prove it”, It is based on the idea of trying to find how different elements of the environment interact to influence the climate, and how changes in environment may change the climate.”
I would encourage YOU to do some independent thinking because at the moment you are either a useful idiot or a know nothing numpty.
You do know that the warmist Climate Scientists are proven liars don’t you?
They say about the current increasing trend in Antarctic ice…
‘Oh OF COURSE we expected that, it is increasing due to AGW and all the warming causing increased precipitation and this and that and the other. We have always expected this because we are clever climate scientists and it is the bleeding obvious anyway’
But what did the IPCC in the TAR actually say about the forecast for Antarctic sea ice in the 21st century?
“A reduction in Antarctic sea ice volume of about 25-45% is predicted for a doubling of CO2, with sea ice retreating fairly evenly around the continent (Gordon and O’Farrell, 1997). This CSIRO model assumes a 1% yr-1 compounding increase of CO2, corresponding to global warming of 2.1°C. Using a similar but modified model that has a higher albedo feedback and predicted global warming of 2.8°C, Wu et al. (1999) calculate a reduction in mean sea-ice extent of nearly two degrees of latitude, corresponding to 45% of sea-ice volume. These estimates do not represent the equilibrium state, and sea ice can be expected to shrink further, even if GHGs are stabilized.”
So they actually predicted a 25-45% decrease and of course it was going to get even worse than that, as is always the case with climate science.
So they were either lying then or they are lying now, either way they are proven liars.
Perhaps you can tell us in what other walks of life you implicitly trust proven liars and are prepared to invest a significant part of your wealth and future well being in their pronouncements?
Mind you, in typical warmist faith fashion, I expect you to run away from this post going La La La inside your little head.
Alan
Glenn says:
January 1, 2014 at 7:55 pm
Dirk H,
“I would encourage you to actually look up the definition of “The Scientific Method”.
—————–
Can you tell the climate scientists at CRU the same please …
[i]Even if WMO agrees, I will still not pass on the data. We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it…
-Phil Jones email Feb. 21, 2005″[/i]
———————-
Nicely put eh? Perfect example of the ‘Scientific Method’ or the ‘Climate Scientific Method’
Glenn says:
January 1, 2014 at 7:13 pm
Chris B.
You wrote: “LOL It’s January 1st, not April 1st. Thanks for having us on. We needed a little humor to relive the stress of the rescue effort.”
Care to share with us your extensive knowledge of the Southern Ocean currents around Antarctica and what the localized weather patterns are? Do you know what the average summer temperatures are at those latitudes? Did you know there has been increased precipitation trend in that area over recent years? Care to weigh in on the causes of that? If you want to laugh, give me some science to back up your joke.
—————————————————-
In case you’ve forgotten, here’s your explanation of what’s happening in Antarctica:
“It is conceivable that melt coming in from different points along the Antarctic coast is getting carried around and freezing only in certain localized areas where the conditions are ideal, and not freezing elsewhere. I don’t know if this is happening but it is not as ridiculous a hypothesis as you are assuming.”
Yes your hypothesis is ridiculous. The bay was clear in 1912 and a wooden vessel made it in and out easily. A modern fossil fuel driven ship attempting to do the same is currently stuck in thick ice despite your magic current hypothesis.
Until there’s an indication that you know what you’re talking about you ought to refrain from using ad hominum arguments
I think that we may have just observed the creation of a new phrase in the lexicon of science, “Tourist Scientist”. Seems to sum up the current situation quite well 🙂
@RichardLH, Tourist scientist with its well muzzled presstitute running cover.
Glenn:
Take AGW out of it for a second. I haven’t actually made any statements specifically referring to CO2 causing anything, in fact I should have made a disclaimer in earlier posts that my interests are not in pushing any particular reasons for changes in climate
Glenn, I think you need to do some research. Practically all of ‘climate science’ revolves around AGW and the idea that CO2 emissions cause warming. Those who disagree are pariahs within the community. No alternative ideas are even allowed to be heard. As others have suggested – do a little looking & reading. Read the archives here. Read the Climategate letters. You’ll see where the people here are coming from.
And also, take your ideas to RS or SKS and see how they react. I think you’ll find this is far from a hostile forum.
So the New Year’s Eve party – goers are off the Russian ship embarking on an Austrailian junket whilst singing more songs.. Now the Russian crew waits locked in ice. I hope that Turney’s party does not turn into tragedy for the crew while Turney et al continue to party it up back in Australia. I am embarrassed for them.
This was nothing more than a junket; an outing at taxpayer expense, and thus with only the pretense of doing actual science. The “scientific” conclusions were already foregone ones; all they wanted were a few details about conditions there that they could slap on top, to give the appearance of science. Thus:
Fewer penguins? CAGW
More penguins? CAGW
Less ice? CAGW
More ice? CAGW
Lower salinity? CAGW
Higher salinity? CAGW
Etc. Etc.? CAGW
On top of everything was the obvious danger they put themselves and potential resuers in. This was foolhardiness in the extreme.
@ur momisugly Gail Combs, 5:19
Of course you are right and a better person than I am.
In that moment I felt tele-connected back to the early days when McIntyre started wondering aloud about hockey and Real Climate came along attempting to shut him up. I was thinking about all of the effort that serious people have put into this work, and how little effort it would take a person of good will like Glenn, bless his heart, to get up to speed without being spoon fed.
It’s just the “have you ever asked an Inuit” sort of comment that did me in with its presumption that bad faith lies at the heart of skeptical thinking. A few out-liers aside almost everyone here would probably agree that it has warmed since the 1850s and that humans probably had something to do with that through changes in land use and burning of fossil fuel and other factors. From Anthony all the way through to Mosher we are all various stripes of luke-warmer, really. Some are more annoying than others.
Most of us probably doubt the positive feedback regime that is necessary to produce CAGW, or climate change, weirding, disruption or whatever they call it these days. Most of us doubt the wisdom of destroying the world’s economy on the basis of speculation and unicorn sightings. Maybe Glenn should think about what the world looks like with 20, 50, 80 percent reduction in carbon burning.
Glenn, warmist dogma is not based in the scientific method. If it was Mike Mann and his cohort would be the strongest and foremost critics of their own work as Feynman prescribed for any scientist. They find the scientific method out-moded and use the post-scientific method in their work, i.e. we presume this problem exists and we need to create a narrative that makes people want to do something about it before it’s too late, sort of thing. That’s why their work is unfalsifiable. That’s why there were reporters on the boat and why reporters have found so many dire consequences of Climate Change. http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
Cheers, Gail, best wishes for a good new year.
Now the rewriting of history and the wholesale denial begins, Banana boy’s glorious selfie has been deleted, account canceled. That did not take long.
We appear to be Glennless 🙂
I wonder if they jumped on the copter so fast that they forgot to tip the crew.
RichardLH says:
January 2, 2014 at 7:35 am
I think that we may have just observed the creation of a new phrase in the lexicon of science, “Tourist Scientist”. Seems to sum up the current situation quite well 🙂
john robertson says:
January 2, 2014 at 7:50 am
@RichardLH, Tourist scientist with its well muzzled presstitute running cover.
_______________________________________–
Scientourists on a Scientourism junket?
Sound better?
It seems to me that the change in presentation of this story in the press is very important. From science story to a bunch of tourists to proof that something weird is going on with the ice (ahem)… this story has humiliated the editors of the mainstream media.
Someone must notice. It can’t be good in the competitive atmosphere of the newsroom, “So you want to put this AGW story in, eh? Well my story is better as it won’t need disavowing in two weeks time,”. There may be allies to be gained in the media if we don’t tar all journalists the same.
Now did I get the 1000th comment?
Missed by 1 (999)
Sorry about that, Mods, but it made my day.
Little things..
[Note for the record: this is response #1,000. ~ mod ☺]
Just The Facts –
Picking back up from the discussion relating to Arctic and Antarctic sea ice coverage, specifically your post @from 8:49 last night….
The fact that Arctic Sea Ice has been on a downward trend, and that the Arctic Ocean is becoming more accessible during the summer months is not something that is a controversial opinion, even amongst the non-AGW community. Going to the charts, starting with the Canadian Archipelago one you posted http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/region.all.anom.region.12.jpg, you see that of the 9 lowest lows for summer ice coverage, 6 have happened in the last 8 years. Of course this is not an extensive area so the plot requires closer examination. The trend becomes easier to pick up when you look at the Arctic Basin plot http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/recent365.anom.region.1.html where the last 8 summers have seen the 8 lowest amounts of summer ice coverage. For those with varying winter coverage levels such as the Greenland Sea, the last decade has been spent mostly on the low side of the mean.
So this brings us to Antarctica. The general consensus is that the Southern Ocean is warming, so why is sea ice generally on the rise in Antarctica? One tested theory is that stronger polar vortex winds are contributing http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00139.1 The idea being that the stronger winds drive the ice faster leading to more ridging and thicker ice which can better survive into the summer. At the same point this pushing of the ice ends up exposing more surrounding water to the same high cold winds, generating more ice volume. There is also the fact that precipitation has been on the increase, and is predicted to increase, especially in East Antarctica. The general premise that any increases in ice in Antarctica casts serious doubt on climate change is overly simplistic.
Glenn asks “The general consensus is that the Southern Ocean is warming. so why is the sea ice generally on the rise?” It helps to remember that “warming” is a strictly relative term. The Ship of Fools was hit by a blizzard in midsummer. A couple of years ago, when a model clearly showed Antarctica had warmed by about 0.5 deg C, a resident observed that the average temperature at his base was -58 deg C, and he hadn’t noticed much warming. Even now along most of the coast, with long summer days, the temperature is usually below freezing. Could that be the answer?
On another tack, I am puzzled as to why an expedition launched in the Spirit of Mawson could have been abandoned by its supposed scientists. I can understand the rescue of the women and children, and I can forgive the rescue of the journos, but the scientist in me would have stayed on the ship with the crew to try to complete my scientific work. Mawson stuck it out; these rats ran.
Glenn:
At January 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm you write
Another “possibility” is that the “general consensus” is wrong.
Possibilities are infinite in number.
And “consensus” is politics but NOT science.
The “general consensus” said ice would decrease in polar regions.
The opposite has happened in reality.
High Priests of the Cult of AGW offer up “possibilities” which attempt to explain away why reality has done the opposite of their predictions. And the acolytes of those High Priests spout those “possibilities” as though the excuses have some merit: they don’t.
Allow me to introduce you to the scientific method.
When a conjecture leads to a prediction which reality shows is wrong then the conjecture is falsified.
I advise you to disavow your cult and its false prophets. Accept reality and your life will be less stressed.
Richard
Glenn says: January 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm
The fact that Arctic Sea Ice has been on a downward trend, and that the Arctic Ocean is becoming more accessible during the summer months is not something that is a controversial opinion, even amongst the non-AGW community. Going to the charts, starting with the Canadian Archipelago one you posted http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/region.all.anom.region.12.jpg, you see that of the 9 lowest lows for summer ice coverage, 6 have happened in the last 8 years. Of course this is not an extensive area so the plot requires closer examination.
There is ample evidence that the largest contributor to the downward trend in Arctic Sea Ice is wind and Atmospheric Oscillations, i.e.:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/06/16/the-economist-provides-readers-with-erroneous-information-about-arctic-sea-ice/
Per this 2004 Science Daily article, ”Winds, Ice Motion Root Cause Of Decline In Sea Ice, Not Warmer Temperatures“:
Per this 2007 NASA article NASA Examines Arctic Sea Ice Changes Leading to Record Low in 2007;
Per this 2010 NASA article NASA Study Quantifies Role of Melt in Loss of Old Arctic Sea Ice
Per this 2013 NSIDC article A better year for the cryosphere
The trend becomes easier to pick up when you look at the Arctic Basin plot http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/recent365.anom.region.1.html where the last 8 summers have seen the 8 lowest amounts of summer ice coverage.
Cryosphere Today – University of Illinois – Polar Research Group – Click the pic to view at source[/caption]
Yes, the Arctic Basin plot seems to reflect wind and Atmospheric Oscillation driven loss of Multi-Year Ice between 2006 and 2012;
[caption id="" align="alignnone" width="578"]
and the significant increase in 2013 “because this year’s wind pattern was different than 2012” and “cooler conditions this summer also helped preserve more of the first-year ice through the summer.”
Per this European Space Agency article Arctic Sea Ice Up From Record Low
Per this 2004 paper “Variations in the Age of Arctic Sea-ice and Summer Sea-ice Extent” by Ignatius G. Rigor and John M. Wallace:
So this brings us to Antarctica. The general consensus is that the Southern Ocean is warming
Bob Tisdale – Click the pic to view at source[/caption]
Remote Sensing Systems (RSS) – Microwave Sounding Units (MSU) – Click the pic to view at source[/caption]
I am not sure where you came up with this “general consensus”, but the Sea Surface data indicates the exact opposite:
[caption id="attachment_54067" align="alignnone" width="568"]
And Southern Polar Lower Troposphere Temperature Anomaly has a negative trend as well;
[caption id="attachment_54067" align="alignnone" width="568"]
so why is sea ice generally on the rise in Antarctica? One tested theory is that stronger polar vortex winds are contributing http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00139.1 The idea being that the stronger winds drive the ice faster leading to more ridging and thicker ice which can better survive into the summer. At the same point this pushing of the ice ends up exposing more surrounding water to the same high cold winds, generating more ice volume. There is also the fact that precipitation has been on the increase, and is predicted to increase, especially in East Antarctica.
There is significant evidence that the Southern Polar Vortex has become stronger, colder, and more persistent, i.e.:
And it has been proposed that;
however the author of this paper Jinlun Zhang has a history of contorting himself to try to hide the gaps in the Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming Narrative. For example, in this NASA article/press release it states that:
and in this paper titled “What drove the dramatic retreat of Arctic sea ice during summer 2007?” by Zhang, J., R.W. Lindsay , M. Steele, and A. Schweiger, Geophys. Res. Lett., 35, L11505, doi:10.1029/2008GL034005, 2008, it states that “Arctic sea ice in 2007 was preconditioned to radical changes” and this contributed to “The dramatic decline” . This is not objective science, rather it’s alarmist rhetoric.
Zhang was already looking for an Arctic Sea Ice tipping points in 2005, i.e. the title of this paper paper was “The thinning of arctic sea ice, 1988–2003: have we passed a tipping point?” by Lindsay, R. W. and J. Zhang, J. Climate, 18, 4879–4894, 2005.
In 2006 Zhang co-wrote a paper with Mark “Death Spiral” Serreze and Keith “the lack of warming … is a travesty” Trenberth, titled “The large-scale energy budget of the Arctic” by Serreze, M. C., A. P. Barrett, A. G. Slater, M. Steele, J. Zhang, and K. E. Trenberth, , J. Geophys Res., 112, D11122, doi: 10.1029/2006JD008230, 2007.
Regardless, it is likely that the Southern Polar Vorticity is a significant driver of Southern Sea Ice. However, the same can said for Northern Polar Vorticity and Northern Sea Ice i.e.:
Both the Northern and Southern Polar Vortices are visible on this Zonal Mean Temperatures at 50-hPa/mb map:
NOAA – National Weather Service – Climate Prediction Center – Click the pic to view at source[/caption]
[caption id="" align="alignnone" width="578"]
The general premise that any increases in ice in Antarctica casts serious doubt on climate change is overly simplistic.
“Increases in ice in Antarctica” don’t cast “serious doubt” on CAGW, the 9 – 17 year Pause in Earth’s Temperature does:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/11/15/a-big-picture-look-at-earths-temperature-santer-17-update/
Glenn says:
January 1, 2014 at 8:18 pm
negrum,
I think I still need to get back to your second post to me in which you asked: “For clarification on your point #4, could you cite the link of the post that you are referring to? This will help me to ensure we are talking about the same thing.”
I took issue with the idea that an upward trend over the last few months refutes the idea that sea ice in the Arctic has been disappearing.
—-
Good to see you are staying. I thought we had lost you:)
Unfortunately we still seem to difffer in our reading comprehension. Are you sure you meant to say:
” – #4 In your separate blog post on the matter, you refute the claim of these scientists that sea ice is increasing in the Arctic by using a plot with a timescale from September-December of this year … ”
As it stands, it appears that you are saying that these scientists (I presume you mean those aboard the Akademik Shokalskiy) are claiming that sea ice is INcreasing in the Arctic. Perhaps you meant that these scientists claim that sea ice is DEcreasing in the Arctic? Precise writing is very important.
As a matter of interest, has your view been in any way altered by the arguments advanced so far? Do you feel that any commentators on this blog might have a valid point or do you feel they are all wrong?
Negrum,
My absence during the day yesterday was due to work (which I didn’t have during New Year’s Day). I generally try not to waste my employers money getting into political internet discussions all day. They are too time consuming. 🙂
You wrote: “As it stands, it appears that you are saying that these scientists (I presume you mean those aboard the Akademik Shokalskiy) are claiming that sea ice is INcreasing in the Arctic. Perhaps you meant that these scientists claim that sea ice is DEcreasing in the Arctic? Precise writing is very important.”
—————————
You’re right, I somehow missed that I had wrote “increasing”, which explains the confusion. I was referring to the quote from someone in the group highlighted by Anthony Watts in a separate post which had said “Sea ice is disappearing due to climate change, but here ice is building up”. Watts responded by saying “Um, no, sea ice isn’t disappearing right now, it is growing in the Arctic and within two standard deviations:” and then posted the recent four month trend. My objection was that no one is claiming that the Arctic ice disappears as we head into January, just that the seasonal volumes have been on a general downward trend.
——————–
“As a matter of interest, has your view been in any way altered by the arguments advanced so far? Do you feel that any commentators on this blog might have a valid point or do you feel they are all wrong?”
——————-
I should also address this to Richard who essentially implied I was just a Global Warming cultist. My position is that humans are contributing to the climate, but the full ramifications are not known. For the record I do not advocate for the United States to go out on its own and impose harsh regulations, as this will simply drive industry into the arms of less environmentally-friendly countries, likely making the climate worse while the US takes the economic hit for its efforts.
My main objection is seeing people casually dismiss advanced research with oversimplified and superficial critiques. I never meant to imply there isn’t room for legit scientific critiques, or that anybody who disagrees with the majority scientific opinion have absolutely no valid points. A friend of mine who is a post-doctorate in Applied Mathematics, focusing on atmospheric and ocean science, often tells people that those scientists who disagree with human-influenced climate change could still end up being more right in the end, they just happen to be going up against the vast majority of scientists at this point. Neither side has found a definitive smoking gun yet.
I’ll try to visit regularly here as best I can. My schedule is hectic with three young kids at home, and getting into the necessary depth to discuss these issues is time-consuming, especially if I am trying to cover one side of the argument myself and answer multiple queries. I spend a lot of time at a private political forum which invites posters from all sides (but is quick to boot out trouble makers). There the political talking points tend to get filtered out pretty quick and the discussions are fairly fruitful. I’ve come to realize how many people on both the right and left seem so sure of themselves, but simply don’t know what they don’t know.
I try to come across as fair and open-minded, but looking back on how I chose to enter this forum two days ago, the posters who tried to label me a troll were not as far off as I wanted to believe. I would have to admit I was probably hoping to stir things up a bit, which is generally a trollish thing to do. I also should not have used as much of a sneering tone right off the bat. Some posters were not exactly contributing meaningful dialogue either, but I appreciate those who were sincere in their responses.
Glenn, your last paragraph is probably one of the most honest, humble, courageous things I’ve seen in a long time on ANY forum. It takes a person of integrity to openly admit the things you did, and you just gained HUGE points in my book. Thanks for clarifying your stance. I think we share far more in common with each other than you think. 🙂