From Tufts University , and the department of industrial strength grant funded worry, comes this “could” question coached in caveats:
Could Sandy happen again? Maybe, says Tufts geologist
Due to rising sea levels, smaller storms could produce significant flooding
MEDFORD/SOMERVILLE, Mass. – Almost a year after Hurricane Sandy, parts of New York and New Jersey are still recovering from billions of dollars in flood damage. Tufts University geologist Andrew Kemp sees the possibility of damage from storms smaller than Sandy in the future.
“Rising sea levels exacerbate flooding,” says Kemp. “As sea level rises, smaller and weaker storms will cause flood damage.” An assistant professor in Tufts’ Department of Earth and Ocean Sciences, Kemp co-authored a study on sea-level change close to New York that was published recently in the Journal of Quaternary Science.
Sandy hit New York as a team led by Kemp was researching sea-level change and flooding that had occurred in seven historically damaging hurricanes in New York since 1788. Last October, Sandy’s storm surge hit the coast at high tide, but storm and tidal conditions were not the only cause of the devastation, Kemp says. Seawaters off New York’s coast have risen 16 inches since 1778, the year of New York City’s first major recorded storm, his research shows.
To make this determination Kemp and his team studied salt-marsh sediments from Barnegat Bay in northern New Jersey, south of the tide gauge at Battery Park in New York. Using sediment cores, long cylinders drilled into the marsh floor that offer scientists a look back through time, they were able to reconstruct sea-level changes since 1788.
Kemp cites two factors for rising seas. One is the natural sinking of land called glacio-isostatic adjustment. A second factor, and one supported by the latest report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), points to the melting of the ice-covered terrain of Greenland and Antarctic as well as the thermal expansion of ocean waters.
Looking forward, Kemp sees the possibility of storms less powerful than Sandy inflicting serious damage. He uses a basketball analogy. “It’s like playing basketball and raising the level of the court so that shorter and shorter people can dunk. It makes low lying property and infrastructure more vulnerable at a time when developers are pumping money into coastal cities and towns.”
Tufts University, located on three Massachusetts campuses in Boston, Medford/Somerville, and Grafton, and in Talloires, France, is recognized among the premier research universities in the United States. Tufts enjoys a global reputation for academic excellence and for the preparation of students as leaders in a wide range of professions. A growing number of innovative teaching and research initiatives span all Tufts campuses, and collaboration among the faculty and students in the undergraduate, graduate, and professional programs across the university’s schools is widely encouraged.
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Dr. Kemp, the basketball analogy fails miserably when the floor is sinking, Note the reference you made: “One is the natural sinking of land called glacio-isostatic adjustment.”
It was about 49 years ago that Hurricane Hazel made an even bigger mess than Sandy, before anybody even worried about climate change, sea level rise, or any number of other similar over-worries associated with “climate change”.
From Wikipedia:
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Hurricane Hazel was the deadliest and costliest hurricane of the 1954 Atlantic hurricane season. The storm killed as many as 1,000 people in Haiti before striking the United States near the border between North and South Carolina, as a Category 4 hurricane. After causing 95 fatalities in the US, Hazel struck Canada as an extratropical storm, raising the death toll by 81 people, mostly in Toronto. As a result of the high death toll and the damage Hazel caused, its name was retired from use for North Atlantic hurricanes.
Hazel affected Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York; it brought gusts near 160 km/h (100 mph) and caused $308 million (1954 USD) in damage. When it was over Pennsylvannia, Hazel consolidated with a cold front, and turned northwest towards Canada. When it hit Ontario as an extratropical storm, rivers and streams in and around Toronto, Ontario overflowed their banks, which caused severe flooding. As a result, many residential areas located in the local floodplains, such as the Raymore Drive area, were subsequently converted to parkland. In Canada alone, over C$135 million (2009: $1.1 billion) of damage was incurred.
The effects of Hazel were particularly unprecedented in Toronto, as a result of a combination of a lack of experience in dealing with tropical storms and the storm’s unexpected retention of power. Hazel had traveled 1,100 km (680 mi) over land, but while approaching Canada, it had merged with an existing powerful cold front. The storm stalled over the Greater Toronto Area, and although it was now extratropical, it remained as powerful as a category 1 hurricane. To help with the cleanup, 800 members of the military were summoned, and a Hurricane Relief Fund was established that distributed $5.1 million (2009: $41.7 million) in aid.
In early October 1954, a tropical wave moved off the coast of Africa and was spotted on October 5, roughly 80 km (50 mi) east of the island of Grenada. Sufficiently organized to be deemed a hurricane, the original hurricane hunter wind measurement of 110 km/h (70 mph) soon increased to 160 km/h (100 mph) at the centre, with a forward speed of 16 km/h (10 mph).[1] Hazel moved westward and intensified from October 6 to October 9 in the Caribbean Sea without directly striking any land;[2] at one point, it was moving “practically parallel” to the Venezuelan coast.[3] After continuing on a westward track, it turned sharply to the north-northeast, heading for Haiti instead of Jamaica, contrary to meteorologists’ predictions.[4] On the whole, the storm proved to be very unpredictable, defying forecasts on multiple occasions.[2]
On October 11, Hazel crossed Haiti as a Category 2 hurricane. It had lost some strength because of its passing over peaks as high as 2,400 m (8,000 ft). After passing through the Windward Passage between the islands of Cuba and Hispaniola, Hazel turned northwest toward the southeastern part of the Bahamas and East Coast of the United States, at a forward speed of about 27 km/h (17 mph).[5] Hurricanes are generally expected to lose power after going north of Florida, since the temperature of the water is lower;[6] however, by late October 14, just before it reached the Carolinas, hurricane hunter planes found the hurricane’s winds to have accelerated to 220 km/h (140 mph), making it a Category 4 storm, and its forward speed had increased to 48 km/h (30 mph).
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Then there’s this one, the Ash Wednesday Storm:
“In New Jersey alone, an estimated 45,000 homes were destroyed or greatly damaged. In New York, on Long Island, communities such as Fire Island were decimated; 100 homes there were destroyed. Wave heights reached 12 m (40 ft) by the shore of New York City.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday_Storm_of_1962
Could Hazel happen again? Sure. Could the Ash Wednesday Storm happen again? No doubt. Could Sandy happen again? You betcha. Does climate change have anything to do with the odds of any of these recurring? Nope.
In fact the odds are better for a Sandy or Hazel like storm to strike when the tide is not at a peak. Had Sandy struck when the tide was low or even somewhere in the middle of the tide cycle, the caterwauling about sea level rise wouldn’t be nearly as loud. While I don’t disagree with Kemp’s statement of “Rising sea levels exacerbate flooding,”, we can also say “hurricanes at high tide exacerbate flooding”. The question comes down to which one had more effect, in the case of Sandy, it was the timing of landfall, high tide, and years of neglecting sea defenses; sea level rise was a minor player.

At 8.99 feet on top of the high tide, Sandy’s surge was almost twice that of its nearest rivals, which all fell between 4 and 5 feet.
![battery_water_level[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/battery_water_level1.jpg?resize=500%2C317&quality=83)
Should we freak out about sea level in New York City? You be the judge: Freaking out about NYC sea level rise is easy to do when you don’t pay attention to history
See also: From the Scientific Urban Legend Department: ‘AGW Sea Level Rise Made Sandy More Destructive’
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Gunga Din says:
October 17, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Spanish-American philosopher George Santayana.
The Storm of 1962 which was not even a hurricane did tremendous damage to the New Jersey shore. I was there. What do you think happens when you have such a density of homes 100 yards from the strand line. Long Beach Island was cut in half and houses were floating in the ocean. However, Sandy was unprecedented. What gullible people we are.
Joe Bastardi, it’s the same as Calgary’s “record flood” this year. Even though it was exceeded by the 1928 levels and about equaled the 1932 level, somehow it’s worse than ever. Of course, the fact that they built most of a city on the floodplain in the meantime is completely ignored.
My favorite conversation about this was in the local paper, when I pointed out that the flood level we reached actually matches the 22-year estimate by an engineering firm in the 70s. One shocked commenter stated, “That’s not true, there wasn’t a flood in 1991”. Sigh.
Gunga Din says: October 17, 2013 at 2:38 pm “I forget exactly how the quote goes but someone once said, “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
Correct, George Santayana in The Life of Reason 1905, “Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
But do not fall prey to some sort of historicism, the idea that history is some sort of logical syllogism, that events A and B somehow cause event C. Marx’s dialectic is rank historicism. The future is in no way predestined. Karl Popper wrote The Poverty of Historicism. N. N. Taleb and Benoit Mandelbrot say that reality is fractally complex and caution against bald induction – that leads to impoverished historicism.
Kemp’s paper only credits GIA with 15 cm of subsidence from 1788, this is less than 1 mm/yr. The NY State Task Force on Sea Level Rise uses their best estimate of 1-2 mm/yr. which would be between 22.4 to 44.8 cm or a mean figure around 33 cm (twice Kemp’s figure) . Kemp finds 56 cm total rise from 1788 — less the Task Force’s mean figure of 33 mm leaves only 23 cm attributable to actual sea level rise in the area — a rate of 1.03 mm/year. This is far less than the consensus figure for long-term, pre-AGW sea level rise alone, which is about 1.7 to 1.8 mm/yr. Even using the Kemp’s GIA figure (I will have to check why this is so divergent from the NYS Task Force’s figure), we get a SLR of 1.8 mm/yr, almost exactly the pre-AWG long-term worldwide trend.
None of this attribution discussion makes sea level rise any less of a problem for a major mega-city with only a ten foot (3 meter) margin of safety.
MattN says:
October 17, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Let’s not forget the terrible storm of 1609 that hit Bermuda & the Bahamas. It figures prominently in American history & English literature:
http://www.hurricanescience.org/history/storms/pre1900s/1609/
Stephen Wilde says:
October 17, 2013 at 2:51 pm
My uncle (Ordnance Artificer) was a victim of the original QM aboard HMS Curacoa.
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12420
28 knots zigzagging.
Kip Hansen says:
October 17, 2013 at 4:12 pm
If NYC had followed the lead of Providence, RI after the destructive storms of the 1930s, ’40s & ’50s & built a surge barrier in the ’60s, Sandy’s cost alone would have paid for the effort. But environmentalists objected to possible salinity effects on NY Bay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Point_Hurricane_Barrier
Of course, remembering Sandy leads to the obvious question: Where are all the (real) storms THIS year?? Humberto? Karen? Can we revisit the dire hurricane forecast for 2013…???
The SLR meme took a hit recently with the observation of cooling of Greenland’s coasts for the last 70 years. “Objection! Facts not in evidence, your honor!”
Next up: Climatologists on junket in Holland learn about magic walls called dykes.
Ain’t it great when your early learning stands you well.
From my early geography instruction I gleaned that buying a house on “Riverside Crescent” might just have consequences. But there you go, you make you choice, you live your life.
Blaming sea level rise for the increased damage from coastal storms is like blaming gravity for causing death of people who jump out of windows. We know sea level is rising, very slowly. The damage is due to stupidity and greed mainly. The sea level rise is all down to nature. Blaming CO2 is blaming the wrong thing, and is also due to stupidity and greed.
The biggest crime regards the break down of the peer review process, is not so much the suppression of skeptical ideas. It is the spamming of the literature with speculative horror stories that are passed on as science. IN the good old days a “scientific finding” had to be tested and verified by a broader community. Advocacy was shunned because it destroyed objectivity. Now that politics dominate climate science, any catastrophic story gets published and advocated via press release and op-eds. These are dark days for science.
1954 was a bad year. I was born that year, in Hobart, Tasmania. My mother said I cried a lot. My howling perturbed the air masses and caused the Gold Coast Cyclone to retain its power after it left the tropics. When I was 14 years old my surging hormones stirred the atmosphere and a dying remnant of a tropical cyclone combined with a cold front over Wellington NZ, and the ferry Wahini sunk on a reef. I’m sorry I was born, but it wasn’t my choice.
In other news, no team ever won an NFL championship before Super Bowl I.
Steele: “It is the spamming of the literature with speculative horror stories that are passed on as science.”
They first said the world would end in ice. Then fire. It’s just a modern translation of the Poetic Edda. Which you’ll find next to scientific research about Zeus and Poseidon Rising.
Janice Moore says:
October 17, 2013 at 3:29 pm
Hey, dear Moderator…. just curious, why are there “no public comments available for display”
[Reply: I am getting the public comments. — mod.]
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We’re not C….
..we’re getting this
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Recent Comments
There are no public comments available to display.
Eliza says:
October 17, 2013 at 3:00 pm
“Frankly getting bored of climate change stories as it ain’t happening.”……
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Yep, catastrophe ain’t what it used to be.
Sorry to disappoint 🙁
So if I read the graphs correctly, Donna (1960), if it hit today (and depending on the tide) would flood the subways. Right? Only with 50 years of warming? Wow.
REPLY: Wishful thinking on your part obviously. You AGW trolls all root for disasters. – Anthony
Janice Moore says:
October 17, 2013 at 3:07 pm
“Tufts University,… is (was) recognized among the premier research universities in the United States. … (of course,) when the (excellence) floor is sinking (almost anyone can be “premier”) … .”
Well I guess their students these days came from schools where awards and trophies are handed out for showing up, or passing half your subjects in the second term, or participation in gym and Christmas hamper deliveries. Its like the new crackerjack^TM Nobel Prizes handed out for murder in the Middle East, genocide in Rwanda, for getting elected pres. in the US, winning an academy award for best photo-shopped arctic scenes of stranded polar bears, and to 8000 authors and an engineer of loco-motives for debunked IPCC fantasy climate. Pachauri is hoping to win the next Nobel prix for sleeze literature and hey, don’t rule it out!
Poppen Kool says:
October 17, 2013 at 5:52 pm
So if I read the graphs correctly, Donna (1960), if it hit today (and depending on the tide) would flood the subways. Right? Only with 50 years of warming? Wow.
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In plain English, the coastal areas of New York, including NY City, much of coastal New England and areas to the south are sinking at a rate ranging from 1 to 2 mm/yr due to the effects of GIA.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/09/19/from-the-scientific-urban-legend-department-agw-sea-level-rise-made-sandy-more-destructive/
A full 65% of tide gauges, show no sea level rise at all…..
http://pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il/~msdfels/wpapers/Tide%20gauge%20location.pdf
..and satellites were tuned to tide gauges
If 65% of tide gauges show no sea level rise….which tide gauges did they use to tune the satellites?
Latitude says: “In plain English, the coastal areas of New York, including NY City, much of coastal New England and areas to the south are sinking at a rate ranging from 1 to 2 mm/yr due to the effects of GIA.”
But the ocean levels are rising whether or not your noisey gauges are. So local rising plus global rising equals more rising. That means floods. Is that like really hard to understand?
Poppen Kool says:
October 17, 2013 at 7:06 pm
“But the ocean levels are rising whether or not your noisey gauges are. So local rising plus global rising equals more rising. That means floods. Is that like really hard to understand?”
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Is it floods or inundation,… “Is that like really hard to understand?”
It seems so.
Poppen Kollar: “Only with 50 years of warming?”
It also happened with 50 years of a decrease in piracy. And penmanship. And literacy rates. Like climate science you’ve forgotten to establish the causal link.