Guest post by David Middleton
Just when you think that the EPA cannot possibly get any more idiotic…
U.S. EPA sues OG&E over work at Oklahoma coal power plants
Tue Jul 9, 2013
(Reuters) – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has sued Oklahoma Gas and Electric for failure to follow procedures required by the Clean Air Act while upgrading two coal plants in the state.
The EPA said in the complaint filed in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma on Monday that OG&E, a unit of OGE Energy Corp, failed to estimate emissions resulting from construction projects between 2003 and 2006 at its facilities.
The Clean Air Act requires regulated facilities to anticipate emissions increases that would result from physical changes, so that, if required, a utility can take steps to prevent them, according to the complaint.
OG&E spokesman Brian Alford said the company believed it had been and still was in compliance with all state and federal requirements.
“We intend to vigorously defend our position, which is that we followed procedures,” he said, “and actual monitored data indicates that emissions did not increase as a result of the work that was done.”
[…]
Shares of OGE were up 1.5 percent at $35.07 in morning trading.
The EPA claims that OG&E failed to estimate emissions that did not occur. They are suing OG&E in an effort to force the company “to assess whether its projects were likely to result in a significant [GHG] emissions increase.”
The EPA had no authority to regulate GHG emissions when the work was done (2003 & 2006). The work (on boilers and turbine blade replacements) caused no emissions increase.
Hi, Wayne Expert Skier Delbeke — here’s just a little help with your question (from around 9:30PM today):
“Cut-out Speed – At very high wind speeds, typically between 45 and 80 mph, most wind turbines cease power generation and shut down.”
[Source: http://www.energybible.com/wind_energy/wind_speed.html
The windmills at Goldendale, WA (US) shut down at around 36 (sustained) mph winds (I didn’t verify this — just remembered, sort of, John F. Hultquist posting the stat about 2 weeks ago) — and at gusts of around 56, they shut down, also. The winds may have gusted up to 75 mph (higher?) at Goldendale (just north of the Columbia River). I don’t know if any have fallen over due to high winds.
Well, bottom line: regardless of whether or not windmills can survive a tornado, they are GROSSLY inefficient, actually, NEGATIVE energy-efficient and require tax payers to heavily subsidize their production cost (or they would not be built at all).
So can people sue EPA for not accounting for “if they had commited to a serious offence of bloody murder”?
OK – looks like the columns are designed to withstand 150 to 160 mph winds, the blades may be ripped off, but the towers seem to remain standing: http://zoomradar.com/blog/?p=954
Guess I over reacted. Pleasant surprise that the engineering design parameters met the test. Although these photos might suggest otherwise: https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2011/07/07/thunderstorm-damages-wind-turbines-in-lincoln-county/
https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2012/04/25/wind-turbines-damaged-in-ohio/
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/wind_blade_damage.pdf
Nevertheless, failure rates for wind turbines do correlate with wind speed, and with the size of the turbine – the bigger the turbine the greater the number of failures per year. O&M is critical as typical turbines experience several failures per year.
http://www.gl-garradhassan.com/assets/downloads/Wind_Turbine_Reliability_Analysis.pdf
But I suppose the EPA isn’t worried about the impact of green energy regardless of the cost.
@ur momisugly Gray Monk – “… the Climate Report for Hell” — LOL. Say, I think you are on to something there…. Remember how afraid (and why) the Wicked Witch of the East (or was it West? I forget) was of water, “Oh! …. I’m meeeelllting… .”
THAT is why the Enviro-nah-zee-s so fear warming (that they have delusions about it)! Their subconscious is telling them something! Heh, heh, heh….
Re: Greenpeace, yes, they and the EPA are one in spirit and both, I believe, are riddled with socialists whose main goal is to simply nationalize every industry in the U.S..
…Bush was too chicken to cancel…
Say what you will about Bush II, but before 9 months after his inauguration, America experienced the terrorist attacks.
PiperPaul says:
July 10, 2013 at 10:59 pm
…Bush was too chicken to cancel…
Say what you will about Bush II, but before 9 months after his inauguration, America experienced the terrorist attacks.
=========================
You are talking out of your ass, stop any time you wish.
Bush II never existed.
Never assume we won’t play for keeps, you loser.
OG&E should break up their plant and ship it to China, where it would be welcome.
There is absolutely no constitutional powers granted to Congress or the Executive branch to regulate the environment on a federal level. Accordingly, this power resides with the individual states to regulate environmental standards under Amendments #9 and #10 of the Constitution.
The US Federal government has become a gargantuan money pit of corruption and power mongers that is quickly destroying our wealth and freedoms.
The massive malinvestments and market inefficiencies caused by excessive: rules and regulations on land/labor/capital, taxes, government spending, annual deficits, money printing and excessively low interest rates has destroyed the US economy and its currency.
Until the public sector is shrunk to about 10% of GDP and most regulatory powers not granted to Congress are given back to the states, there is no way out of this mess.
Seems a lot of people always forget that.
Interesting piece of trivia … Compare two Presidents who at approximately 8 months from their inaugurations had a major event that changed the course of their entire administration, not to mention the country and even the world …
Quite a coincidence and quite a dose of bad luck. Sudden uncontrolled events can change everything with no chance of ever going back to what was originally hoped or planned for.
I can’t see what difference the EPA regulations are making on co2 output for the planet. The increased use of natural gas and the recession appears to have had an effect. I only say this because the USA is EXPORTING record amounts of coal overseas, some of it being burnt by less regulated power firms. I also understand that the USA has the world’s largest coal reserves.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=11751
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=11791
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=70&t=2
Is the EPA is making a difference? Maybe it’s fracking gas.
@ur momisugly J. Sperry and Phil M,
OG&E replaced some turbine blades and performed some boiler work. These operations didn’t result in any emissions increases of any kind. The EPA isn’t suing to shut down or even force OG&E to modify the plants.
The EPA is trying to force OG&E to file a report on how the 2003-2006 operations were likely to increase emissions in the future… Emissions increases that can be documented to not have occurred.
All the EPA need now is an equivalent individual to Andrei Vyshinski, the theatrical chief prosecutor in Stalins show trials of the 30’s.
Vyshinsky’s inspiring rhetoric would be appropriate to adapt for Obama’s environmental purge:
Shoot these rabid dogs. Death to this OG&E gang who hide their ferocious teeth, their eagle claws, from the people! Down with that vulture [Trotsky] Brian Alford, from whose mouth a bloody venom drips, putrefying the great ideals of Environmentalism [Marxism]!… Down with these abject animals! Let’s put an end once and for all to these miserable hybrids of foxes and pigs, these stinking corpses! Let’s exterminate the mad dogs of climate denial and capitalism [capitalism], who want to tear to pieces the flower of our new Obama [Soviet] nation! Let’s push the bestial hatred they bear our leaders back down their own throats!
sometimes u just have to laugh. this is one of the funniest articles i have ever read, to the very last….
10 July: InsideClimateNews: Katherine Bagley: Wealthy Donors in His Corner
as Obama Comes Out Swinging on Climate Change
“Obama is going to be a very young when he is done his second term,” Rabe
said. “Who knows what he’ll do next, but we’ve never seen a president so
engaged in ongoing fundraising. He’s continuing to court donors. It doesn’t
surprise me that their voices seem to have influenced this new agenda.”…
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20130710/wealthy-donors-his-corner-obama-comes-out-swinging-climate-change
Call me radical but your main coal fired companies supplying power in America should talk to one another. They could tell the EPA they are closing their plants for a week or two to upgrade to ensure compliance with all their rules, but they are all closing at the same time. This would throw a cat among the pigeons and bring this sorry mob of little dictators to a bit of a pickle with Joe public. It is only Joe public and his opinion that can change things quickly.
This EPA lawsuit is both mind-numbingly idiotic as well as constituting harrassment. It has absolutely nothing to do with protecting the environment, and will cost a great deal of the taxpayers’ money, and ultimately, ratepayers as well. It is all part of Zero’s War on Coal, and the Envirofascist Punishment Agency’s unconstitutional power-grab.
This time it had nothing to do with GHG’s. But, that is certainly where we are headed.
If you actually read the suit it’s about a missed opportunity to estimate future emissions and possible decreases as a result of different upgrade paths. As a result of failing to take these actions, emissions from the plants will be above limits in the near future. Doesn’t sound ridiculous at all when you tell people what the suit was actually about. But hey, this is WUWT where sea ice is recovering and oceans warm themselves, right?
“The EPA claims that OG&E failed to estimate emissions that did not occur. They are suing OG&E in an effort to force the company “to assess whether its projects were likely to result in a significant [GHG] emissions increase.”
The EPA had no authority to regulate GHG emissions when the work was done (2003 & 2006). The work (on boilers and turbine blade replacements) caused no emissions increase.”
Regulations force them to estimate emissions of SO2 and NOx. Your insertion of [GHG] into that line distorts the suit into something it isn’t. Read the suit, it’s pretty straightforward. OG&E failed to follow the law. It doesn’t matter what the emissions are today. It doesn’t matter if they went up or down. They still broke the law by failing to estimate them. If you don’t like the law, write your congressman.
Phil M. says:
July 10, 2013 at 8:32 pm
> This is about the dumbest post I’ve ever seen on this blog. And that’s saying a lot.
So, why do you keep reading?
> Is Mr. Middleton, or anyone on this blog, aware that coal-fired power plants are well-documented sources of all kinds of pollutants, including NOx, SOx and Hg?
Of course we don’t. Why has it taken you so long to realize that? Don’t forget uranium and thorium, we don’t know about either. Does “all kinds” include things like Freons too? Perhaps we should extract those from the flue gas.
> Are the readers of this blog so disconnected from reality that they honestly believe the EPA files a lawsuit in Federal court simply to make a point?
Assuming that “The projects included replacement of turbine blades, parts of the boiler and replacement of the economizer,” shouldn’t change SO2 output, then yes, I believe the EPA is trying to assert its dominance over utility companies. What do you believe they are doing?
> The confused, rambling ideas blurted out on this blog are downright staggering sometimes.
Damn right. Don’t tell the EPA, but I’m planning to not release 1.00 tonnes of SO2 today.
It was Nixon and then Reagan who gave the EPA responsibility for ensuring clean air. Coal plants kill around six people per day with their toxic emissions and it is these toxic emissions that there is a legal requirement to estimate and report when ever ANY upgrade is made in the operation of a coal fired power plant.
Saying that they did the upgrade and afterwards measurement showed there was no change in emissions is NOT adequate. If you are doing something that kills so many people you have to make an estimate of how your actions may change that and test afterwards. If they had reported that the upgrade work would make no change and then measurement confirmed this there would be no case.
But because they carried out modifications without reporting what effect it might have on toxic emissions that cause deaths the energy company is in the wrong and almost certainly will get fined.
I am puzzled why this is an issue for WUWT. It has nothing to do with climate change, the legislation dates way back decades and is uncontroversial unless you think protecting American lives from coal plant toxins is a bad idea and an industry that causes 24000 deaths a year does not require regulation.
REPLY:Oh please. Please point to six people, any six people who have on their death certificates “killed by coal plant”. I grew up in a town with a coal fired power plant and I’m just fine. My friends are fine, my relatives are fine. The town thrives still.
Your assertion is nothing but regurgitated mindless activist talking points with no evidence to back it up, posted by an anonymous coward named “izen” too timid to stand behind his own words with his name.
Be as upset as you wish. But do show those death certificates before you comment again. – Anthony Watts
Just a “progressive” style of old-school mafia extortion. Coming from a government agency near you….
izen,
How many lives has the electricity provided by coal for hospitals etc saved? The air over the United States of America has never been cleaner, take a chill pill.
Reblogged this on gottadobetterthanthis and commented:
Former State Treasurer Scott Meacham acted wickedly in 2007. He was personally responsible for stopping the construction of a perfectly good coal fired power plant. I hold him responsible for the pain, suffering, and death that will result as the power shortages in Oklahoma worsen. http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-949-state-treasurer-draws-fire-for-involvement-in-coal-plant-ad.html
http://www.oksenate.gov/news/press_releases/press_releases_2007/pr20070905a.html
“The most vocal opponents have been those who have a vested financial interest in seeing the plant powered by natural gas. Unfortunately, electric customers know too well how electricity generated by natural gas is subject to huge price swings—and it’s the consumer who winds up paying for it,” Myers said. “I think Mr. Meacham needs to deal with the responsibilities of the State Treasurer’s office and let those charged with handling utility and natural resource matters tend to theirs.”
The articles I link to fail to mention the millions already invested in the project. Meacham threw all that away. Oklahoma squandered what it had invested in planning and designing and proving the value of the new plant. Meacham and others with interests in natural gas argued for a gas fired turbine instead, but this was before gas prices fell, prices which will rise again. The coal plant probably still is the best option even today. Besides, where is the gas fired turbine plant? No where! Maybe in the future, especially given the EPA’s rabid assault on coal. In the mean time, Oklahoma is building windmills, in tornado alley, killing birds and bats daily, senselessly. OG&E had already invested significantly, and they approached the Corporation Commission to begin passing along those costs and the pending construction costs to me and other rate payers, to ramp up the cost increases slowly and at minimum impact. Good plan. I like my low rates. But Meacham’s grandstanding stopped the cost recovery. The CC refused OG&E, and OG&E did the only sensible thing. Abandon the plant rather than incur the excessive costs of borrowing the hundreds of millions required to complete the plant construction. They probably should have. It is the only way we Oklahomans will maintain a reliable power supply. It is the only way none of us will see our children in cold, dark operating rooms, wondering if the backup generators will kick in before our daughter dies.
I get emotional about these things. The greens claim they are trying to save the earth, but they are killing! They kill bats, birds, and all manner of creatures in their quest to cleanse the earth and appease Moloch, I mean Gaia, but worst of all they kill people. The greens efforts result in pain, suffering, and death today in the third world, and their efforts will result in more pain, suffering, and death as they continue to hinder the most basic of all needs, the need for affordable electricity.
Stop the EPA. It is the most dangerous thing known to mankind.
the Nothing, a mysterious power. This is the Never Ending Story.
Progressive – change, increasing the rate of occurrence step by step, moving forward.
To Sue a government is frivolous penalty of wrong doing. The Citizen taxpayer pays the bill.
EPA, the most dangerous thing known to mankind.