In an interview with NewScientist magazine, Imperial College professor of atmospheric physics Joanna Haigh scoffs at the idea that late 20th century warming could have been caused by the sun:
Haigh points out that the sun actually began dimming slightly in the mid-1980s, if we take an average over its 11-year cycle, so fewer GCRs should have been deflected from Earth and more Earth-cooling clouds should have formed. “If there were some way cosmic rays could be causing global climate change, it should have started getting colder after 1985.”
What she means is that the 20th century’s persistent high level of solar activity peaked in 1985. That is the estimate developed by Mike Lockwood and Claus Fröhlich. The actual peak was later (solar cycle 22, which ended in 1996, was stronger than cycle 21 by almost every measure) but set that aside. Who could possibly think that cooling should commence when forcings are at their peak, just because the very highest peak has been passed?
Haigh’s argument against solar warming was in response to my suggestion that one new sentence in the leaked Second Order Draft of AR5 is a “game changer.” That is the sentence where the authors admit strong evidence that some substantial mechanism of solar amplification must be at work. The only solar forcing in the IPCC’s computer models is Total Solar Irradiance so if some solar forcing beyond TSI is also at work then all their model results are wrong.
No, no, no, Haigh told the NewScientist, it is “the bloggers” who have it all wrong:
They’re misunderstanding, either deliberately or otherwise, what that sentence is meant to say.
Look whose accusing people of misunderstanding. This woman thinks that warming is driven, not by the level of the temperature forcing, but by the rate of change in the level of the forcing. When a forcing goes barely past its peak (solar cycle 22 nearly identical in magnitude to cycle 21), does that really create cooling? Haigh should try it at home: put a pot of water on a full burner for a minute then turn the burner down to medium high. Does she really think the pot will stop warming, or that it will actually start to cool?
“Deliberately or otherwise,” this is an astounding misunderstanding of the very most basic physics, and Haigh is not the only consensus scientist who is making this particular “mistake.” Hers is the stock answer that pretty much every “consensus” scientists gives when asked about the solar-warming hypothesis. I have collected examples from a dozen highly regarded scientists: Lockwood, Solanki, Forster, Muscheler, Benestad, and more. Not surprisingly, it turns out that they are all making some crucial unstated assumptions.
Solar warming and ocean equilibrium
To claim that the 20th century’s high level of solar forcing would only cause warming until some particular date such as 1970, or 1980, or 1987, one must be assuming that the oceans had equilibrated by that date to the ongoing high level of forcing. That’s just the definition of equilibrium. After a step up in forcing the system will continue to warm until equilibrium is reached.
When I asked these scientists if they were making an unstated assumption that the oceans must have equilibrated by 1980 say to whatever forcing effect high 20th century solar activity was having, almost all of them answered yes, each giving their own off-the-cuff rationale for this assumption, none of which stand up to the least bit of scrutiny. Isaac Held’s two-box model of ocean equilibration is better than Mike Lockwood’s one-box model, but just move to the next simplest model, a three-box model of ocean equilibration, and any idea that longer term forcing won’t cause longer term warming collapses.
The well mixed upper ocean layer (the top 100-200 meters) does equilibrate rapidly to a change in forcing, showing a response time of less than ten years, but that isn’t the end of the story. As the top layer warms up it transfers heat to the next deeper ocean layers. If the elevated forcing persists then these next deeper layers will continue to warm on the time scale of multiple decades to multiple centuries. This warming will reduce the temperature differential between the upper and deeper layers, causing there to be less and less heat loss over time from the upper to the deeper layers, causing the upper layer to continue to warm on the time scale of multiple decades to multiple centuries.
This accords with what we actually see. Since the 50 year absence of sunspots that coincided with the bottom of the Little Ice Age, 300 years of uneven warming have coincided with an uneven rise in solar activity. Any claim that these three centuries of natural warming had to have ended by a particular 20th century date (never mind right when solar activity was at its peak), is at the very least highly speculative. To claim that we can be confident that this is what happened is borderline insane.
Or maybe it’s that other thing that Joanna Haigh insinuates about. Maybe there is an element of deliberateness to this “misunderstanding” where scads of PhD scientists all pretend that warming is driven by the rate of change of the temperature forcing, not the level of the forcing. How else to blame late 20th century warming on human activity? Some rationale has to be given for why it can’t have been caused by the high level of solar activity that was still raging. Aha, what if temperature were driven by the trend in the forcing rather than the level of the forcing? That would do it. Let’s say that one. Let’s pretend that even peak forcing will cause cooling as soon as the trend in the forcing turns down.
It’s one psycho-drama or the other: either Haigh’s insinuations about dishonesty are projection, accusing others of what she and her cohorts are actually doing, or she’s just dumber than a box of rocks.
Haigh also channels Steven Sherwood, pretending that the highlighted sentence is just about GCR-cloud
The draft report acknowledges substantial evidence for some mechanism of solar amplification and lists Henrick Svensmark’s GCR-cloud theory as an example of one possible such mechanism (7-43 of the SOD):
Many empirical relationships have been reported between GCR or cosmogenic isotope archives and some aspects of the climate system (e.g., Bond et al., 2001; Dengel et al., 2009; Ram and Stolz, 1999). The forcing from changes in total solar irradiance alone does not seem to account for these observations, implying the existence of an amplifying mechanism such as the hypothesized GCR-cloud link.
Haigh claims that the evidence about cloud formation being induced by cosmic rays points to a weak mechanism, then simply ignores the report’s admission of substantial evidence that some such mechanism must be at work:
Haigh says that if Rawls had read a bit further, he would have realised that the report goes on to largely dismiss the evidence that cosmic rays have a significant effect. “They conclude there’s very little evidence that it has any effect,” she says.
Rawls says that if Haigh had read the actual sentence itself, she would have realized that it isn’t about galactic cosmic rays, but only mentions GCR-cloud as one possible solar amplifier.
Aussie climatologist Steven Sherwood did the same thing, claiming (very prematurely) that the evidence does not support GCR-cloud as a substantial mechanism of solar amplification, then pretending away the report’s admission of clear evidence that some substantial such mechanism is at work:
He says the idea that the chapter he authored confirms a greater role for solar and other cosmic rays in global warming is “ridiculous”.
“I’m sure you could go and read those paragraphs yourself and the summary of it and see that we conclude exactly the opposite – that this cosmic ray effect that the paragraph is discussing appears to be negligible,” he told PM.
As JoNova and I blogged last weekend, this ploy inverts the scientific method, using theory (dissatisfaction with one particular theory of solar amplification) as an excuse for ignoring the evidence for some mechanism of solar amplification. Using theory to dismiss evidence is pure, definitional anti-science. Unfortunately, NewScientist gives this slick anti-scientist the last word:
“The most interesting aspect of this little event is it reveals how deeply in denial the climate deniers are,” says Steven Sherwood of the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia – one of the lead authors of the chapter in question. “If they can look at a short section of a report and walk away believing it says the opposite of what it actually says, and if this spin can be uncritically echoed by very influential blogs, imagine how wildly they are misinterpreting the scientific evidence.”
Sherwood and Haigh are flat lying to the public about what a simple single sentence says, pretending the admission of strong evidence for some substantial mechanism of enhanced solar forcing was never made, then trusting sympathetic reporters and editors not to call them on it. This is why the report had to be made public. After my submitted comments showed how thoroughly the new sentence undercuts the entire report it was obvious that the consensoids who run the IPCC would take the sentence right back out, and here Sherwood and Haigh are already trying to do exactly that.
Too late, anti-scientists. Your humbug is on display for the whole world to see.

D Böehm says:
“I don’t want to make Carter’s head explode”
A balloon only releases air! No harm done.
ps might release some of the cranial pressure from all those ceiling hits. 🙂
Anyone who says “So even if the predictions are correct, the effect of climate change will outstrip the sun’s ability to cool … ” really hasn’t got a clue.
This person also claims the sun’s output has only varied by 0.1% which makes its effect – at ~1.4W/sq m larger than Trenberth’s claimed 0.9 W/sq m imbalance due to AGW greenhouse emissions.
“The sun’s ability to cool …” c’mon.
Every Thing A Scientist Needs To Know
About Becoming Famous In Eight Lines
Ambitious ones who seek a name
The quickest path is how they come
They find some grounds and stake a claim
With much hurrah they beat their drum
But making noise is not the same
As careful work brought to a sum
That’s everything to know of fame —
The means and end its truly from
Eugene WR Gallun
Martin Clark says:
“, but this 100mm = 1m is now enshrined in legislation that I am supposed to comply with :-(”
I know we need to reduce the size of our houses a bit.. but this is not a very sensible approach.
So, I have sat here with a bunch of cloud data and a bunch of GCR data.
And i’ve asked a simple question.
If GCR go up, as in a Forbush event, What do expect to see in the cloud data,
AND will you submit your beliefs to a test.
So, far Its been over a year of asking the GCR folks this question and nobody has the conjones
to state a testable hypothesis.
Bill Illis says:
. Then what happens?
Probably convection ! Whenever any part of the atmosphere is at a higher temp that its local pressure can hold, the atmosphere attempts to balance the energy. Wind, convection etc etc.
The atmosphere, always striving for equilibrium, but only ever attaining it but for a fleeting instant.
Mosher, Bring me a cup of year. Then we talk..
Gail Combs says:
December 21, 2012 at 5:57 pm
Cold Blast Claim[ing] Over 600 Lives Across Eastern Europe/Russia…”
I can hardly wait for next year’s climate conference in Warsaw, Poland!
Carter says:
December 21, 2012 at 2:13 pm
‘that your 1 mm/year sea level rise only amounts to a few inches per century’ you should mix imperial with metric, because you’re just confusing yourself!
1 mm/year = 100 mm/century. This is 3.9370079 or 4 inches which is a bit less than the width of your fist.
Steven Mosher: Surely the problem isn’t in stating a testable hypothesis, but rather with dealing with the fact that climate is a very noisy field.
For instance, this paper
http://www.astrophys-space-sci-trans.net/7/315/2011/astra-7-315-2011.pdf
tests whether high amplitude FDs are correlated with a higher day-night temperature deviation as expected by the proposed GCR-cloudiness link and seems to come down on the side that the observations are consistent with the GCR hypothesis.
To be clear, I don’t think such a link is established by any means, but the argument that there are no testable consequences of the theory is pretty clearly false.
Cheers, 🙂
Steven Mosher says:
“So, far Its been over a year of asking the GCR folks this question and nobody has the conjones
to state a testable hypothesis.”
Well then, propose your own testable hypothesis. No one is stopping you. You’ve got the cojones, right?
You might be surprised and uncomfortable with the result. But give it a shot anyway. The idea is to find out which hypothesis remains standing after the smoke clears. That’s how we make progress.
The CO2=AGW
hypothesisconjecture, for example. It’s looking shakier all the time.vukcevic says:
December 21, 2012 at 2:26 pm
It is in the magnetic field in the Arctic, as taken from the two world recognized geomagnetic databases.
My comment holds equally well for the Arctic. There is no intensity data from anywhere before 1832, and no measurements in the Arctic before 1882. So ‘data’ is extrapolated in time and space.
Not Fooled says:
December 21, 2012 at 4:58 pm
“Given a variation in solar output of 0.1%, the resulting temperature change is a quarter of that, i.e. 0.025% which of 288K is 0.07 degrees, which is a factor of ten smaller than the actual LIA change in temperature.”
So a 100% increase (doubling) in solar output would only result in a 7 degree warming???
You fooled yourself: 100% is a thousand times more than 0.1%. A thousand times 0.07 degrees is 70 degrees. But the formula is not linear for such a large change. The correct value is the fourth root of 2 times 288K, which is 342K for an increase of 54 degrees.
Ian H says:
December 21, 2012 at 5:44 pm
High altitude clouds are believed to cool more. They are the ones Svensmark is mostly talking about anyway.
He is talking about low clouds, which is where he saw the correlation [which has now gone away].
Shawnhet says:
December 21, 2012 at 5:42 pm
1.The three listed papers imply the existence of an amplifying mechanism and
2. One of those potential amplifying mechanisms is the GCR cloud hypothesis
the papers do not ‘imply’ but ‘propose’ or ‘suggest’ that an amplifying mechanism ‘might’ exist, not that it ‘must’ exist. The Bond 2001 paper notes “Virtually every expansion of the subpolar surface circulation is linked to reduced solar irradiance”. The Dengel 2009 paper notes “A relationship between galactic cosmic radiation and tree rings”. The Ram and Stolz 1999 paper invokes Svensmark’s hypothesis. IPCC notes that reduced solar irradiance is probably not the cause, which leaves the GCR hypothesis as the one standing [and the only one IPCC finds worthy of consideration]. Nobody in his right mind would read more into the statement of ‘7.4.5.1 Correlations Between Cosmic Rays and Properties of Aerosols and Clouds’ than that. IPCC does not claim there are dozens of other [mostly unknown] mechanisms in play. The report is very specific about which ‘mechanism’ was considered to be of interest. Anything else is wishful thinking [and there is a lot of that going around, apparently].
Steven Mosher says:
December 21, 2012 at 6:36 pm
So, far Its been over a year of asking the GCR folks this question and nobody has the conjones to state a testable hypothesis.
In the meantime, people are subjecting the mechanism to continued scrutiny, e.g. http://www.leif.org/EOS/swsc120049-GCR-Clouds.pdf
Conclusion: “it is clear that there is no robust evidence of a widespread link between the cosmic ray flux and clouds”. and “This work examines evidence of a cosmic ray cloud link from a range of sources, including satellite-based cloud measurements and long-term ground-based climatological measurements. The satellite-based studies can be divided into two categories: (1) monthly to decadal timescale analysis and (2) daily timescale epoch-superpositional (composite) analysis. The latter analyses frequently focus on sudden high-magnitude reductions in the cosmic ray
flux known as Forbush Decrease events. At present, two long-term independent global satellite cloud datasets are available (ISCCP and MODIS). Although the differences between them are considerable, neither shows evidence of a solar-cloud link at either long or short timescales. Furthermore, reports of observed correlations between solar activity and cloud over the 1983–1995 period are attributed to the chance agreement between solar changes and artificially induced cloud trends.”
Leif you are quite correct. Svensmark is all about low clouds. Thanks for pointing this out. I had remembered it the wrong way around.
If solar activity peaked in 1996, then according to a study by Usoskin, who found that max temperature in the last 1000 years occurs about 20 years affter a solar maximum, then we should reach a temperature peak about 2016, then cooling. If Lockwood is right with 1985 then we have already peaked about 2005. Looks like T wont rise much between now and at least 2036.
@ur momisugly Isvalgaard
Why do you say “variation in solar output” when you are actually talking about “variation in TSI”? Variation in solar output would include variation in UV among a host of other components and the relative distribution of those components.
Ok, Leif let’s get specific here with the Bond paper.
The Bond paper states “Surface winds and surface ocean hydrography in the subpolar North Atlantic appear to have been influenced by variations in solar output through the entire Holocene” Assuming arguendo that the GCR-cloud link is false, can you describe what impact, if any this would have on the implication that statement makes.
I argue that the first statement remains true irrespective of whether we show that there is no GCR cloud link. I further submit that you are the one engaging is wishful thinking (namely that the statement that an amplification is implied means nothing if the GCR link were disproven), but I will wait to see if you can support that contention by referring to the *actual paper*.
LazyTeenager says:
———–
No. The climate science view is that their is a delay and the real issue is how much delay in which physical system.
”Me! The earth’s energy balance is in equilibrium with the rate of solar energy input equal to the rate of earth infra red energy output.
Any change in forcing will affect the primary absorber, the near surface layers of the ocean immediately. And this will affect air temperatures on very short time scales. “
Really!?!? Do you have a clue what the heat capacity of the photonic zone or the well mixed zone is? A pool doesn’t heat “immediately” and yet the “near surface layers of the ocean” do? Come on dude, take a basic physics course.
Gail Combs says:
December 21, 2012 at 5:12 pm
“Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.”
Or the even greater danger that public policy could become captive of scientific illiterates.
In an interview with NewSeancetist magazine, Imperial College professor of eco-propaganda physics Joanna Haigh scoffs at the idea that the earth is not flat: “skeptics have it all wrong, if the earth was not flat things would fall off my desk all the time”.
Thanks Joanna. Someone needs to keep on top of these things.
This is the Forbush event cosmic ray – diurnal temperature range paper.
http://www.astrophys-space-sci-trans.net/7/315/2011/astra-7-315-2011.pdf
The size of the effect is 0.38C; 0.5C for the largest Forbush events, and maximum effect is right when you would expect to see it, 2 to 3 days after the event.
Not often in climate science you get a close fit between prediction and observation, but they certainly did in this case.
John West says:
December 21, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Why do you say “variation in solar output” when you are actually talking about “variation in TSI”? Variation in solar output would include variation in UV among a host of other components and the relative distribution of those components.
As far as we know, all these other ones stem from the same cause as variations of TSI: variation of the sun’s magnetic field, so is expected to follow trends and variations of TSI. ‘TSI variations’ being in that sense just a shorthand for ‘solar magnetic field variations’ or ‘solar output’. Now, it is possible that the statement that all indicators vary with TSI in a predictable matter is false, but we have no evidence for that at this time.
Shawnhet says:
December 21, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Assuming arguendo that the GCR-cloud link is false, can you describe what impact, if any this would have on the implication that statement makes.
What I [or you] think is not relevant. What matters is what IPCC thought when their statement was written. To me, it is crystal clear what their thinking was and what conclusion they would admit.
thingadonta says:
December 21, 2012 at 7:34 pm
If solar activity peaked in 1996
1996 was a solar MINIMUM year followed by a modest solar cycle 23.
Alec Rawls is saying it doesn’t feel cooler when the sun goes behind a cloud? There is an immediate response at a surface when the energy supply changes just seen in this type of common experience. Maybe deep in the ocean things are slower, but the surface changes immediately and we live on the surface. Similarly if the sun dimmed, we would notice quite quickly, not twenty years later.