In an interview with NewScientist magazine, Imperial College professor of atmospheric physics Joanna Haigh scoffs at the idea that late 20th century warming could have been caused by the sun:
Haigh points out that the sun actually began dimming slightly in the mid-1980s, if we take an average over its 11-year cycle, so fewer GCRs should have been deflected from Earth and more Earth-cooling clouds should have formed. “If there were some way cosmic rays could be causing global climate change, it should have started getting colder after 1985.”
What she means is that the 20th century’s persistent high level of solar activity peaked in 1985. That is the estimate developed by Mike Lockwood and Claus Fröhlich. The actual peak was later (solar cycle 22, which ended in 1996, was stronger than cycle 21 by almost every measure) but set that aside. Who could possibly think that cooling should commence when forcings are at their peak, just because the very highest peak has been passed?
Haigh’s argument against solar warming was in response to my suggestion that one new sentence in the leaked Second Order Draft of AR5 is a “game changer.” That is the sentence where the authors admit strong evidence that some substantial mechanism of solar amplification must be at work. The only solar forcing in the IPCC’s computer models is Total Solar Irradiance so if some solar forcing beyond TSI is also at work then all their model results are wrong.
No, no, no, Haigh told the NewScientist, it is “the bloggers” who have it all wrong:
They’re misunderstanding, either deliberately or otherwise, what that sentence is meant to say.
Look whose accusing people of misunderstanding. This woman thinks that warming is driven, not by the level of the temperature forcing, but by the rate of change in the level of the forcing. When a forcing goes barely past its peak (solar cycle 22 nearly identical in magnitude to cycle 21), does that really create cooling? Haigh should try it at home: put a pot of water on a full burner for a minute then turn the burner down to medium high. Does she really think the pot will stop warming, or that it will actually start to cool?
“Deliberately or otherwise,” this is an astounding misunderstanding of the very most basic physics, and Haigh is not the only consensus scientist who is making this particular “mistake.” Hers is the stock answer that pretty much every “consensus” scientists gives when asked about the solar-warming hypothesis. I have collected examples from a dozen highly regarded scientists: Lockwood, Solanki, Forster, Muscheler, Benestad, and more. Not surprisingly, it turns out that they are all making some crucial unstated assumptions.
Solar warming and ocean equilibrium
To claim that the 20th century’s high level of solar forcing would only cause warming until some particular date such as 1970, or 1980, or 1987, one must be assuming that the oceans had equilibrated by that date to the ongoing high level of forcing. That’s just the definition of equilibrium. After a step up in forcing the system will continue to warm until equilibrium is reached.
When I asked these scientists if they were making an unstated assumption that the oceans must have equilibrated by 1980 say to whatever forcing effect high 20th century solar activity was having, almost all of them answered yes, each giving their own off-the-cuff rationale for this assumption, none of which stand up to the least bit of scrutiny. Isaac Held’s two-box model of ocean equilibration is better than Mike Lockwood’s one-box model, but just move to the next simplest model, a three-box model of ocean equilibration, and any idea that longer term forcing won’t cause longer term warming collapses.
The well mixed upper ocean layer (the top 100-200 meters) does equilibrate rapidly to a change in forcing, showing a response time of less than ten years, but that isn’t the end of the story. As the top layer warms up it transfers heat to the next deeper ocean layers. If the elevated forcing persists then these next deeper layers will continue to warm on the time scale of multiple decades to multiple centuries. This warming will reduce the temperature differential between the upper and deeper layers, causing there to be less and less heat loss over time from the upper to the deeper layers, causing the upper layer to continue to warm on the time scale of multiple decades to multiple centuries.
This accords with what we actually see. Since the 50 year absence of sunspots that coincided with the bottom of the Little Ice Age, 300 years of uneven warming have coincided with an uneven rise in solar activity. Any claim that these three centuries of natural warming had to have ended by a particular 20th century date (never mind right when solar activity was at its peak), is at the very least highly speculative. To claim that we can be confident that this is what happened is borderline insane.
Or maybe it’s that other thing that Joanna Haigh insinuates about. Maybe there is an element of deliberateness to this “misunderstanding” where scads of PhD scientists all pretend that warming is driven by the rate of change of the temperature forcing, not the level of the forcing. How else to blame late 20th century warming on human activity? Some rationale has to be given for why it can’t have been caused by the high level of solar activity that was still raging. Aha, what if temperature were driven by the trend in the forcing rather than the level of the forcing? That would do it. Let’s say that one. Let’s pretend that even peak forcing will cause cooling as soon as the trend in the forcing turns down.
It’s one psycho-drama or the other: either Haigh’s insinuations about dishonesty are projection, accusing others of what she and her cohorts are actually doing, or she’s just dumber than a box of rocks.
Haigh also channels Steven Sherwood, pretending that the highlighted sentence is just about GCR-cloud
The draft report acknowledges substantial evidence for some mechanism of solar amplification and lists Henrick Svensmark’s GCR-cloud theory as an example of one possible such mechanism (7-43 of the SOD):
Many empirical relationships have been reported between GCR or cosmogenic isotope archives and some aspects of the climate system (e.g., Bond et al., 2001; Dengel et al., 2009; Ram and Stolz, 1999). The forcing from changes in total solar irradiance alone does not seem to account for these observations, implying the existence of an amplifying mechanism such as the hypothesized GCR-cloud link.
Haigh claims that the evidence about cloud formation being induced by cosmic rays points to a weak mechanism, then simply ignores the report’s admission of substantial evidence that some such mechanism must be at work:
Haigh says that if Rawls had read a bit further, he would have realised that the report goes on to largely dismiss the evidence that cosmic rays have a significant effect. “They conclude there’s very little evidence that it has any effect,” she says.
Rawls says that if Haigh had read the actual sentence itself, she would have realized that it isn’t about galactic cosmic rays, but only mentions GCR-cloud as one possible solar amplifier.
Aussie climatologist Steven Sherwood did the same thing, claiming (very prematurely) that the evidence does not support GCR-cloud as a substantial mechanism of solar amplification, then pretending away the report’s admission of clear evidence that some substantial such mechanism is at work:
He says the idea that the chapter he authored confirms a greater role for solar and other cosmic rays in global warming is “ridiculous”.
“I’m sure you could go and read those paragraphs yourself and the summary of it and see that we conclude exactly the opposite – that this cosmic ray effect that the paragraph is discussing appears to be negligible,” he told PM.
As JoNova and I blogged last weekend, this ploy inverts the scientific method, using theory (dissatisfaction with one particular theory of solar amplification) as an excuse for ignoring the evidence for some mechanism of solar amplification. Using theory to dismiss evidence is pure, definitional anti-science. Unfortunately, NewScientist gives this slick anti-scientist the last word:
“The most interesting aspect of this little event is it reveals how deeply in denial the climate deniers are,” says Steven Sherwood of the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia – one of the lead authors of the chapter in question. “If they can look at a short section of a report and walk away believing it says the opposite of what it actually says, and if this spin can be uncritically echoed by very influential blogs, imagine how wildly they are misinterpreting the scientific evidence.”
Sherwood and Haigh are flat lying to the public about what a simple single sentence says, pretending the admission of strong evidence for some substantial mechanism of enhanced solar forcing was never made, then trusting sympathetic reporters and editors not to call them on it. This is why the report had to be made public. After my submitted comments showed how thoroughly the new sentence undercuts the entire report it was obvious that the consensoids who run the IPCC would take the sentence right back out, and here Sherwood and Haigh are already trying to do exactly that.
Too late, anti-scientists. Your humbug is on display for the whole world to see.

Leif:”The IPCC only considers the GCR effect in what follows and have no mention of any other mechanism they would think to be a contender. That is the critical point.”
IYO. IMO, however, there are *two* important points they raise 1. there is an implied amplification of solar effects and 2. that one mechanism that could explain this is the GCR-cloud link. Respectfully, you have given no argument for why assuming 2 is false tells us anything about whether there is another mechanism resulting in 1 (It all boils down to your *assumption* that the GCR-cloud link is the “last one standing”).
“Who cares what we assume? What matters is what IPCC assumes and subsequently elaborates on.”.
No, what matters ultimately is what scientific papers they reference(who cares what the IPCC assumes either? What matters is what the science says). This is (or should be) the source of all their legitimacy. As such, when they reference papers that support an amplification of solar factors that has consequences beyond its application towards a specific mechanism.
Cheers, 🙂
Alarmist troll supervisor: Send’em all in! Send’em all in NOW! They’re discussing SOLAR variation!
Alarmist troll dispatcher: Yes Sir.
Alarmist troll: What should I do?
Alarmist troll supervisor: Just try to keep the discussion on the minutiae of what the IPCC author said or didn’t say, meant or didn’t mean for as long as you can. Then throw in some ad homs and a few heat transfer “misunderstandings” and before you know it the wheat will be hidden by the chaff. Now get in there, they’re figuring out we only have two arguments against solar driven climate and one of them is too stupid for words (peaks must match to correlate) and the other is taking on water fast (TSI is all that matters).
Gail Combs says:
December 21, 2012 at 5:12 pm
“Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.”
Or the even greater danger that public policy could become captive of scientific illiterates.
But if it’s a scientific elite that is so stupid that it can’t shoot straight, things will work out “just right” Right, LS?
thisisnotgoodtogo says:
December 21, 2012 at 11:28 pm
Right?
Your moniker says it all: this is not good to go
Nicola Scafetta says:
December 21, 2012 at 10:37 pm
“uncorrected” version of ACRIM3 dataset!
so now we have to ‘correct’ ACRIM…
John West says:
December 21, 2012 at 10:48 pm
Pretty greasy choosing a year that’s pulling up out of a grand minimum thereby matching our current dropping into a grand minimum so you can claim “no trend”.
1722 was the year the effect was discovered. If it matches the current value but temperatures do not, what does that tell you?
Shawnhet says:
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 pm
As such, when they reference papers that support an amplification of solar factors that has consequences beyond its application towards a specific mechanism
IPCC doesn’t think so.
Shawnhet says:
December 21, 2012 at 11:11 pm
As such, when they reference papers that support an amplification of solar factors that has consequences beyond its application towards a specific mechanism
BTW, Bond never talked about ‘amplification’ of anything. He thought is was a straight solar irradiance relationship. So that argument goes out the window.
Leif says:
What is critical is the distinction between the evidence for substantial solar forcing of climate beyond what can be accounted for by TSI and the evidence for particular mechanisms that might be giving rise to that enhanced solar forcing. These are completely separate things. If the evidence for any particular hypothesized mechanism of enhanced solar forcing indicates that it is unlikely to be the source of the evidenced forcing effect, that does not diminish the evidence that some such mechanism must be at work. If the chapter 7 authors only choose to look at mechanisms of solar amplification that work through GCR, that does not in any way affect the possibility that the evidenced solar amplification is working in some other way than through GCR, but please notice that this is exactly what Haigh and Sherwood are claiming.
They explicitly dismiss the idea that there is any substantial enhanced solar forcing that needs to be taken into account and they justify this by saying that the GCR-cloud mechanism does not appear to be strong. The fact that they only choose to look at this particular mechanism does not mean that they can dismiss the evidence, which they acknowledge, that some substantial mechanism of enhanced solar forcing is at work.
Maybe the authors really are thinking what Leif attributed to them earlier. Maybe they really are thinking that, because GCR is used in developing our proxy record for solar activity, the solar-climate effects seen in the paleo record must therefore be mediated by GCR. If so, that might be their most glaring anti-scientific lunacy yet. It is something they all must KNOW is wrong.
Personally I don’t think that is what they are doing. I don’t think they are pretending that the forcing effect implied by GCR-climate correlations would have to be working through GCR. I think they are just limiting what they are choosing to talk about, then pretending that other possibilities can be dismissed, not because they have any scientific justification in mind for the dismissal, but just as brute intellectual dishonesty. It’s the most direct way to cover up what they want to cover up (the likelihood of a yet unaccounted for mechanism of solar amplification). Just don’t mention the evidence that such a mechanism must be at work and pretend that it is enough to dismiss the evidence for this or that particular mechanism.
To those like Haigh and Sherwood who want to follow this strategy of brute intellectual dishonesty, that added sentence, admitting the evidence for some substantial solar forcing beyond TSI, is a thumb in the eye. That’s why my best guess is still that somebody in the name of scientific integrity snuck that sentence in.
Alec Rawls says:
December 22, 2012 at 12:11 am
If the chapter 7 authors only choose to look at mechanisms of solar amplification that work through GCR, that does not in any way affect the possibility that the evidenced solar amplification is working in some other way than through GCR, but please notice that this is exactly what Haigh and Sherwood are claiming.
No, they are just saying that IPCC has chosen not to look at anything else than GCR-clouds.
They explicitly dismiss the idea that there is any substantial enhanced solar forcing that needs to be taken into account
So do I, so I can’t fault them on that.
To those like Haigh and Sherwood who want to follow this strategy of brute intellectual dishonesty
No dishonesty. On the contrary, they stand up for what they believe. Good for them. Applaud them.
admitting the evidence for some substantial solar forcing beyond TSI, is a thumb in the eye.
Except it does not admit any such thing. That is your wishful thinking.
That’s why my best guess is still that somebody in the name of scientific integrity snuck that sentence in.
‘Guess’?
Alec Rawls says:
December 22, 2012 at 12:11 am
admitting the evidence for some substantial solar forcing beyond TSI, is a thumb in the eye.
Except it does not admit any such thing other than the GCR-cloud mechanism. To think otherwise is just your wishful thinking. I’ll predict the statement will be left in as it is.
lsvalgaard says:
December 21, 2012 at 8:22 am
CO2 the last 300 years has risen considerably as have temperatures…
==============
Temperatures started rising 150 years before CO2. Al Gore already showed that temperature leads CO2. Please try and keep up.
lsvalgaard says:
The IPCC only considers the GCR effect in what follows and have no mention of any other mechanism they would think to be a contender. That is the critical point.
It is critical in demonstrating their deriliction, and thus their dishonesty, but that they fail to account for what they have said does not unsay it.
BTW, in English, “such as” is used to indicate that what follows is not exhaustive.
such as
Web definitions
for example; like, of the kind mentioned; those who.
Since the sentence is “…such as the hypothesized GCR-cloud link.”, the GCR-cloud link is not exclusive. One can argue that the author’s intent was exclusive to GCR-cloud link but this does not change the fact that this sentence is not.
Alec Rawls says:
December 22, 2012 at 12:11 am
Excellent summary. While this merri-go-round of Leif pulling the blinds and most other trying to raise same is most entertaining, it is certain that progress will only be made through a far more open and enquiring approach than the stale and hunkered down stance of the esteemed Dr., who seems hell-bent on shutting down all attempts to explore that which has not flowed from his own personal efforts. He presents no thoughts at all on what may be at work here… and something is at work… but (may I be so brave as to gingerly suggest?) is close to achieving troll status in threads of this nature.
ferd berple says:
December 22, 2012 at 12:35 am
Temperatures started rising 150 years before CO2. Al Gore already showed that temperature leads CO2. Please try and keep up.
Who says that the rise in temperatures is related [either way] to the change in CO2?
You are being presumptuous
JJ says:
December 22, 2012 at 12:39 am
It is critical in demonstrating their deriliction, and thus their dishonesty, but that they fail to account for what they have said does not unsay it.
They are very honest, only considering what they believe to be important. They are not responsible for whatever misinterpretations people cook up.
BTW, in English, “such as” is used to indicate that what follows is not exhaustive.
But, by only discussing GCR-clouds they clearly dismiss all the other untenable notions.
lsvalgaard says:
BTW, Bond never talked about ‘amplification’ of anything. He thought is was a straight solar irradiance relationship. So that argument goes out the window.
For crying out loud Leif, he says it right in the abstract:
“The surface hydrographic changes may have affected production of North Atlantic Deep Water, potentially providing an additional mechanism for amplifying the solar signals and transmitting them globally.”
BTW – In English, “an additional” is used to indicate that there are others. If you read the paper, you can find out what those are. Hint: Not GCR. Or clouds.
lsvalgaard says:
December 22, 2012 at 12:08 am
BTW, Bond never talked about ‘amplification’ of anything. He thought is was a straight solar irradiance relationship. So that argument goes out the window.
In the interest of accuracy, he did talk about ocean currents affecting the production of North Atlantic Deep Water, and that can help spread the suggested solar effect.
O Olson says:
December 21, 2012 at 8:13 am
Just a quick question from a simple farmer… How long does it take for the sun’s shielding effect against GCRs to reach the outer limits of the heliosphere?
——————————————————————————————————————–
1. The distance Sun – Earth constitutes one Astronomical Unit (AU).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_Unit
2. Distance Sun – Earth is approx. 150 mio. Kilometers / 93 mio. Miles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System
3. The Radius of the Solar system is approx. 100 AU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System
4. The Speed of the Solar Wind ist between 400 and 750 Kilometers / 250 and 470 Miles per second. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind
5. According to the above, The Solar Wind takes between 2,5 and 4 hours to reach Earth or between 11 and 16 days to reach the outer limits of the Solar system, respectively.
“The results of this study demonstrate that Earth’s climate system is highly sensitive to extremely weak perturbations in the Sun’s energy output, not just on the decadal scales that have been investigated previously, but also on the centennial to millennial time scales documented here.” Bond et al 2001
lsvalgaard says:
December 21, 2012 at 7:09 pm
My comment holds equally well for the Arctic. There is no intensity data from anywhere before 1832, and no measurements in the Arctic before 1882. So ‘data’ is extrapolated in time and space.
Perhaps you should read:
Four centuries of geomagnetic secular variation from historical records
http://www.epm.geophys.ethz.ch/~cfinlay/gufm1/Jacksonetal2000.pdf
and:
Archaeomagnetic Dating
http://dourbes.meteo.be/aarch.net/linford.pdf
so this correlation
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/LL.htm
is a sheer coincidence, for all 2000 years of data.
Of course it could happen that Leohle just adjusted temperature data (not likely) to correlate to geomagnetic field in the Kolbeinsey ridge, home of North Icelandic Jet Current (flowing through Denmark Strait) one of principal currents in determining intensity of the ocean – atmosphere interaction
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/slides/large/04.18.jpg
the source of the Icelandic Low, which is the determinant of the polar jet stream trajectory over the North Hemisphere.
AlecR – “That’s why my best guess is still that somebody in the name of scientific integrity snuck that sentence in.”
Presumably it should be reasonably straightforward to identify a shortlist containing the “culprit”. Why not draw up a shortlist and then specifically ask those on the list?
Digressing, is this issue not a potential facesaver for the warmists? If, at some time in the future, they can point to an as yet unknown solar mechanism, that would provide them with a mitigating factor for having blindly insisted for so long that CO_2 is the root of any warming that may or may not have occurred over the last 40 years or so.
<i.And nobody wants to suggest a test.
You see its easy to be a skeptic and doubt what others do. It’s hard to be a scientist like Leif.
Mosher, I followed your link and its just a bunch of graphs, impossible to interpret.
But clearly you have done an analysis and are waiting to deliver a gotcha.
I’m neutral on the GCR theory, but if a phenomena is found with weak statistical support, the next step is a bigger study of the same form.
A couple of other points; there are problems with the satellite cloud data, and I have seen data indicating a nighttime cloud increase. Whether this is GCR related I don’t know, but it’s a possibility. Another point is that Europe’s topography is very different to North America – east-west plains and mountains, while NA has north-south orientation, and common phenomena in Europe like radiation fog are fairly unusual in NA.
I agree surface measures of solar radiation is a good proxy for clouds. As is DLWR at night.
The GCR effect (if there is one) may have an aerosol interaction or only occur in other circumstances, such as high humidity environments.
Anyway if the original Serbian study has validity, then you should find significant deviations from the temperature climatology.
So my prediction is that an analysis of hourly temperatures after a Forbush Decrease Event will shown significant deviations from the temperature climatology for that hour and day of the year.
And before you raise it, I am well aware of the statistical implications of picking 24 tests. But minimum temperatures are particularly sensitive to cloud (especially low cloud) changes.
The 20th century warming was primarily in the Northern Hemisphere.
The solar cycle 24 cooling appears to be starting in the Northern Hemisphere.
http://rt.com/news/russia-freeze-cold-temperature-379/
Down to -50C: Russians freeze to death as strongest-in-decades winter hits (PHOTOS)
Russia is enduring its harshest winter in over 70 years, with temperatures plunging as low as -50 degrees Celsius. Dozens of people have already died, and almost 150 have been hospitalized.
¬The country has not witnessed such a long cold spell since 1938, meteorologists said, with temperatures 10 to 15 degrees lower than the seasonal norm all over Russia.
Leif
“It means that more energy was radiated back to space as well.
TSI has increased 0.2 W/m2 or 0.015% which would raise the temperature 0.01 degree.”
Still missing the point. The ocean received much more energy the last century compared to the previous centuries, and much of it stays there for decades before reradiated. Because of the heat capacity we have to look at energy, not power like you always do, like when saying the solar activity is the same now as hundred years ago, the integral is not. But I think all agree there must be an amplification (or addition).
“The Figure shows that the MWP was ending long before solar activity began to drop”
From wikipedia:
“The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) is generally thought to have occurred from about AD 950–1250”
When does the Steinhilber TSI show the steepest fall last 2000 years? Exactly, around 1250.
Steven Mosher says:
December 21, 2012 at 8:17 am
When I challenge believers in Svensmark to state a testable hypothesis, they all go silent. Seems they want to claim an effect but not define a test for it.
I am neutral on Svensmark, there is an effect but I am not convinced that is the main driver.
I did this
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/Ap-Cl.htm
just after last large Forbush march 2012 and it does confirm Svensmark hypothesis, but since such events are rare, in global terms may not be significant.
I think the down to Earth events (solar + geology and magnetic field as a proxy) have the best chance.
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/LL.htm