Dana Nuccitelli's Skeptical Science OHC grapple – down for the count

Dana1981 at SkepticalScience Tries to Mislead His Readers

Guest post by Bob Tisdale

Dana1981 (aka Dana Nuccitelli) recently authored a SkepticalScience post titled Modeled and Observed Ocean Heat Content – Is There a Discrepancy?  Believe it or not, in it, he complained about my comparison of modeled and observed ARGO-era Ocean Heat Content. See Figure 1. But his complaints do nothing more than misrepresent my graph and the modeled and observed trends of the Ocean Heat Content data. His intent is blatantly obvious. It is to mislead his readers. And it’s so obvious, it’s silly.

In this post, I’ll simply respond (once again) to complaints about that graph.

Dana1981’s initial reference to my graph comes in the opening sentence of his post. It reads:

Recently there have been a number of claims of a large discrepancy between modeled and observed ocean heat content (OHC), for example by Roger Pielke Sr., David Evans, and Bob Tisdale.

The post he linked was the WattsUpWithThat cross post of my most recent quarterly NODC Ocean Heat Content (OHC) update titled October to December 2011 NODC Ocean Heat Content Anomalies (0-700Meters) Update and Comments. The only model-data comparison graph in that post is Figure 1. So that simple graph is the only one he chooses to complain about.

Figure 1

Dana1981 uses the ridiculous heading of “Inaccurate, Unskeptical Graphs”.

First, there’s nothing inaccurate about my graphs in general or Figure 1 specifically. The data for Figure 1 is available through the KNMI Climate Explorer, and the model projection is based on Hansen et al (2005). I include a detailed description of that graph in that post. Second, I’m not sure how unskeptical applies to a graph. Unskeptical according to MS Word means open minded. Whatever Dana1981 was yakking about, it’s nonsense. Figure 1 is an accurate presentation of the model projection and the data.

Dana1981 then goes on to write under that heading:

The first cherrypicks have already been discussed above – ignoring OHC below 700 meters, and ignoring the OHC increase prior to 2003.

Figure 1 appears in my post under the heading of “ARGO-ERA OCEAN HEAT CONTENT MODEL-DATA COMPARISON.” That limits the period of discussion, don’t ya think? There’s really no reason to include OHC data prior to 2003 in a graph of ARGO-era OHC data since ARGO floats had such poor coverage before then.

Dana1981 claims that presenting the NODC 0-700 meter OHC data is cherry-picking, apparently believing the NODC’s OHC data for depths of 0-2000 meters should be illustrated as well. There’s a very obvious problem with that logic, and Dana1981 fails to recognize it. The Hansen et al (2005) paper “Earth’s energy imbalance: Confirmation and implications” has been the reference all along in my series of OHC updates. It presents the NODC OHC data for 0-700 meters, not 0-2000 meters. Dana1981 even uses Figure 2 from Hansen et al (2005) as Figure 1 in his post.

Dana1981 then posts a graph from Tamino that represents the problems Dana1981 sees with my model-data presentation in Figure 1. We’ll overlook the obvious difference, which is that he’s looking at annual data and I’ve presented the data on a monthly basis. I’ve added a couple of notes to the SkepticalScience Figure 4 and posted that graph here as Figure 2. My graph in Figure 1 presents the extrapolated trend of the model mean. Tamino’s graph presents the trend for the annual Ocean Heat Content data, not the model mean. He also elected to show a trend for the data for the period of 1993 to 2002. But the period used in the Hansen et al (2005) paper that Dana1981 referenced was 1993 to 2003. The only reason to omit the 2003 data point is because the trend is lower without it. Then Dana1981 notes:

By choosing the baseline such that the models and data are equal in 2003, Tisdale and Evans have graphically exaggerated a model-data discrepancy.

So the point where the trend meets the data is Dana1981’s basic complaint. Yawn. Somehow in Dana1981’s mind the intercept makes the graph inaccurate and unskeptical. Dana1981 linked Tamino’s post Favorite Denier Tricks, or How to Hide the Incline, but he failed to also link my rebuttal here or the WUWT cross post Technical paper training for “Hansen’s Bulldog”. Dana1981 also failed to realize how the Corrections to the RealClimate Presentation of Modeled Global Ocean Heat Content impacted Tamino’s unfounded criticisms. So I’d better point it out to him.

Figure 2

Where should the model intersect with the data? Let’s take a look.

Dana1981 uses the uproariously funny heading of “Accurate Graph”. Dana1981 then presents the corrected RealClimate graph that compares model outputs and OHC data. The graph is from the RealClimate post OHC Model/Obs Comparison Errata. Yup, that was the first time in two and a half years that RealClimate posted an “accurate graph” in one of their OHC model-data comparisons. I’m not sure Gavin Schmidt liked being reminded of that fact by Dana1981, but I sure appreciated it. I’ve reposted the graph here and thrown on another question for Dana1981. It is: Where would an extrapolation of the model mean trend (1993-2003) intersect the NODC OHC data, Dana1981?

Figure 3

Gavin Schmidt was kind enough to post the answer to my question. He provided it when he corrected the OHC model-data comparison graph in his post 2011 Updates to model-data comparisons. See Figure 4. I’ve noted the answer on the graph. They don’t intersect. In my graph, Figure 1, the model and data at least intersect during the ARGO era but in the RealClimate graph that Dana1981 calls an “accurate graph” they don’t intersect. Would you rather I shifted the model trend to the left, away from the OHC data, Dana1981? Would that make it an “accurate graph” for you?

Figure 4

Figure 5 is the same OHC model-data comparison graph from RealClimate. In it, though, I’ve highlighted the ARGO era, which is the period I presented in Figure 1. I removed the NODC data for 0-2000 meters since it has no bearing on this discussion. I’ve also approximated Tamino’s linear trend of the NODC OHC data from 1993 to 2002 that Dana1981 would like us to believe represents the model mean. Does Tamino’s linear trend come close to representing the model mean? Nope! For some reason, things that are blatantly obvious to most of us elude Dana1981 and his cohorts at SkepticalSeance.

Figure 5

What Dana1981 failed to realize is, when Tamino pulled the two sleights of hand with that graph (using the data instead of the model mean and using the trend of the data from 1993 to 2002 instead of 1993 to 2003), the erroneous data that RealClimate was posting at the time, Figure 6, was aligning with the bogus Tamino trend. That erroneous model trend only made it appear that Tamino’s presentation was right. But it never was.

Figure 6

I was going to overlook Dana1981’s complaint that I was neglecting a raft of other sources of OHC data, but I’ve decided to respond to it. I use the KNMI Climate Explorer as the source of data for my quarterly Ocean Heat Content updates. That fact is discussed in the first few paragraphs of those OHC updates. It’s tough to miss it, being right up front. I use data that’s readily available from KNMI in my posts for a reason: so that anyone can reproduce my graphs. Up until a few weeks ago, the NODC Ocean Heat Content data for 0-700 meters was the only updated Ocean Heat Content dataset available at the KNMI Climate Explorer. I would have been more than happy to include other OHC datasets, but there haven’t been any—until recently.

KNMI recently added an Ocean Heat Content dataset based on the UK Met Office EN3 analysis. I haven’t really investigated that dataset in depth (pardon the pun) so I haven’t prepared a full post about it. Figure 7 compares the UKMO EN3 data to the NODC ARGO-era OHC data for 0-700 meters and also to the GISS model trend. The UKMO EN3 data appears similar to the NODC’s ARGO-era OHC data before the NODC’s 2010 modifications. I’ll confirm that in an upcoming post. If you haven’t noticed, the trend of the ARGO-era UKMO EN3 OHC data (0-700 meters) is negative from January 2003 to March 2012.

Figure 7

The UKMO EN3 OHC data is presented in 4 depths at the KNMI Climate Explorer: 0-400m, 0-700m, 0-1000m, and 0-2000m. We can compare the global ARGO-era 0-2000 meter UKMO EN3 data to the trend of the GISS model mean for 0-750 meters, Figure 8. The models are still out of the ballpark. There’s no reason to search for the GISS model trend for 0-2000 meters to illustrate that point.

Figure 8

CLOSING

When Gavin Schmidt published those corrections to the RealClimate OHC model-data comparisons, I believed that no one would be foolish enough to ever again complain about where the OHC model trend and data intersected in my ARGO-era graphs. But I was proved wrong. Dana1981 raised the bar on foolishness. And his readers went along with it.

Roger Pielke Sr. also published a post yesterday about Dana1981’s OHC post. Roger’s post is titled Grappling With Reality – A Comment On The Skeptical Science Post By Dana1981 “Modeled and Observed Ocean Heat Content – Is There a Discrepancy?”  Yup, Dana1981 and many of the commenters on that SkepticalScience thread are grappling with reality, but they’re losing the wrestling match.

By the way, Dana1981, thanks for allowing me to post the ARGO-era model-data comparison graph once again. It’s one of my favorites.

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May 30, 2012 5:32 pm

dana1981 says:
May 30, 2012 at 3:26 pm
“So Dana, are you going to show us anything wrong with this post besides your name or is that the worst error in it?”
Well, I’ve learned that commenting here isn’t a very constructive exercise, to put it kindly.
============================================================
I’m sure Anthony would allow a guest post.
Just ask
It would be a hoot !!!!!

May 30, 2012 5:36 pm

Tisdale:
Thanks for responding and for the links, and yes you are right that the 0-2000 meter UKMO data shows a positive trend, my mistake. I had mixed up the plots in my head and was absent-minded enough to not double check which one I was referencing before I posted. Again, my mistake.
I’m still curious why the UKMO data shows such a small trend, whereas the NODC does not. I don’t necessarily expect an answer from you though (unless you have one, by all means), I’ll be looking into it myself a bit so I’m just typing out loud, so to speak.
As to the aerosol effect, I’m not curious as to how OHC responded or where, but how the model would have treated such information and how it would have predicted OHC off that information. Again too, it’s not just aerosols but solar, perhaps ENSO and vertical heat transfer downward.

gnomish
May 30, 2012 5:36 pm

thanks, Bob.
another one bites the dust.

Rosco
May 30, 2012 5:49 pm

If OHC is now such a significant issue doesn’t this kinda show the atmospheric concentration of a trace gas which is completely negligible in terms of mass and heat capacity compared to the physical properties of water in the oceans is actually – well – negligible ??

May 30, 2012 5:58 pm

The Argo program is the most expensive climate science project ever, costing about 100 million Euros (120 million USD) per annum.
I calculated this by extrapolating the European costs found at the link below to the total number of Argo floats (3,000).
http://www.europolemer.eu/en/telechargement.php?id_page=0-86-140-272-343&file=Euro_Argo___LE_TRAON.pdf
The reason so much money is being spent is that the prior methods of measuring Ocean Heat Content were known to be deficient in multiple ways. Equating pre-Argo data with Argo data, without highlighting the difference in data quality, is itself seriously dishonest.

JJB MKI
May 30, 2012 6:13 pm

@Dana1981 & Alex C
So you’re trying to fell Bob with the argument that the models might be right if they weren’t wrong?
Genius

James Sexton
May 30, 2012 6:19 pm

Camburn says:
May 30, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Well written James. And very correct.
I used to go to alarmist sites, but most have now decided that my comments should not be seen.
I also went to be challenged, as I paid good money to read the literature and understand it.
========================================
Thanks, but, it seems to no avail. But, we knew that. Anthony allows, and encourages debate….. especially from the alarmist side. I’ve only had very limited dealings with Dana. I’m more familiar with Bob. If I had to bet, I’d bet that Dana won’t come play.
To my remedial questions….. why to we consider the depths inclusive instead of separately? So we can get scarier graphs?

JJB MKI
May 30, 2012 6:26 pm

..and in accusing Bob of cherry picking (a perfectly legitimate way of falsifying a weak hypothesis), you might be opening an uncomfortable can of worms for yourselves..

May 30, 2012 6:31 pm

Regarding your discussion of aerosols, you’ll need to look to see where the oceans are cooling before your try to say that the additional aerosols from China are causing that cooling.
I’ll second that. Without empirical data that shows increasing/decreasing aerosols (and particulates) causing ocean warming/cooling, the change in the aerosol forcing is just a fiddle factor in the models.

Editor
May 30, 2012 6:35 pm

dana1981 says: “Other errors in this post aside…”
Nice try, dana1981. Show me the errors.
Dana1981 says: “As a quick summary, I should clarify that I don’t know if Tisdale’s graph is in error, because he shows so little data.”
Does this mean you’ve withdrawn your claim of more than one error in my post? Probably not.
The data in the graph is as downloaded from the KNMI Climate Explorer. It is also shifted so that the first quarter data point equals zero. I start the data in 2003 to represent the ARGO era of OHC data. You could go to the KNMI Climate Explorer and download the data if you believe it’s wrong, but you don’t do that. You make nonsensical claims that have no bearing on the conversation. If I start a graph in 2003 to show the ARGO era, there will of course be “so little data”.
Dana1981 says: “And that’s really the problem – he’s looking at the mean run from just one climate model…”
And yet you posted a graph from RealClimate that presents that same climate model, the same model mean. Your argument contradicts itself.
Dana1981 says: “…comparing it to one OHC reconstruction, only looking at 0-700m data…”
Hmm. I addressed this argument in the post. This indicates you didn’t read it. Let me ask you this, dana1981: What part of the title of my post that you linked to your post didn’t you understand? The title was “October to December 2011 NODC Ocean Heat Content Anomalies (0-700Meters) Update and Comments”. It really should be easy to determine the topic of that post from the title.
And let me ask you a second question: Are you aware of any other Ocean Heat Content dataset that’s available online in an easy-to-use format so that my readers can replicate my graphs easily? I’ve only found one. And it was recently added to the KNMI Climate Explorer. But of course you complained about it…
Dana1981 says: “…with the exception of his new graphic, which is grossly inconsistent with all other 0-2000m OHC reconstructions, which I summarized in my post.”
Then I suggest you take your complaints to the UK Met Office. They’re falling on deaf ears here.
Dana1981 says: “…and looking at less than a decade’s worth of data.”
This was also addressed in the post. So I’ll ask you another question: What part of “ARGO-era” don’t you understand?
Dana1981 says: “It’s cherrypick upon cherrypick upon cherrypick.”
You seem to have “cherrypick” on your mind. Do you often crave cherries? Maybe it’s a diet deficiency. Try vitamin C. In other words, you need to find a better argument when you come here, dana1981. That one’s laughable.
Dana1981 says: “Let’s just say my post is a lot more thorough.”
I wouldn’t know. I only looked for discussions of my graph and I commented on your misrepresentations. I’ve assumed the rest of your post was just as error-filled.
Dana1981 says: “And that’s all I’m going to say on the matter because as I noted, commenting here isn’t a constructive exercise.”
And yet you commented again.
Dana1981 says: “Actually I should clarify – it’s a *linear extrapolation* of the mean 1993-2003 run from one climate model. Tisdale (and everyone else doing this analysis, including myself) is assuming that a linear OHC extrapolation is accurate, which is only true if the radiative forcing 2003-2011 is the same as 1993-2003, which very well may not be true due to rising aerosol emissions.”
Hmm. Did you notice that RealClimate simply extrapolates the data also? One would think, if they were concerned that the extrapolation was inaccurate, they wouldn’t do it. It’s only when Gavin corrected his mistakes that you try your new argument, dana1981. Before he corrected them, did you ever ask him whether the extrapolation was correct?
Dana1981 says: “Bottom line is that we can’t say for sure whether or not there’s a model-data discrepancy, but Tisdale’s analysis in particular is nowhere near thorough enough to make that determination.”
Dana1981, you’ve lost sight of reality–if you ever had it in view. Let me phrase it another way: the obvious is beyond you. Here’s a copy of my graph again.
http://bobtisdale.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/figure-112.png
The “analysis” you’re referring to is a simple graph. A very simple graph. It presents the ARGO-era NODC Ocean Heat Content for the depths of 0-700 meters, and compares it to an extrapolation of the GISS model mean. That’s all the graph presents. It’s basically a trend comparison. Nothing more, nothing less. I prepare it so that I can ask the question that also appears on it. That question is, If the model mean continues to diverge from the observations, how many years are required before the models can be said to have failed? It’s intended as a conversation starter, but you and Tamino make a big fuss about it. You go to great lengths to misrepresent it and to mislead your readers. Your overreaction to that simple graph is foolish at best. So I’m happy to point out to all of the readers the ways that you misrepresent that graph and misunderstand the topic at hand.
I published a comment by blogger JJ on my blog after the last argument about that simple graph, dana1981. Here’s a link. I would suggest that you (above all others commenting on this thread) read it.
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/the-comment-of-the-week/
Here’s a quote from it:
“Because when you attempt to distract from it, as Tamino has done here, you end up doing two things: 1) You look desperate, grasping at straws from which to construct sparring partners, and 2) you end up forcing guys like Bob into examining things that don’t turn out well for you.”
And yet you continue to yak on and on, digging the hole deeper. Your need to self destruct is quite remarkable.
Regards

BPW
May 30, 2012 6:40 pm

beng,
No, to be fair, Dana1981 is not the same person you are thinking of. That would be a guy who calls himself “Dano”. I too am familiar with him as he resides in my state–CO–and used to post on the local paper’s site until he was banned–twice–for being overly abusive.
He still appears at some sites from time to time, but not nearly as much as in the past.

Editor
May 30, 2012 6:50 pm

Glenn Tamblyn says: “How can you compare what the GISS model supposedly says for the post 2003 period with OHC data for that period?”
It’s called linear extrapolation. That is, the linear trend from the earlier period is extended into the one we’re discussing. Scroll up to Figure 4. Gavin has extended the linear trend lines from 2003 forward. It’s common practice.

Editor
May 30, 2012 6:55 pm

phlogiston: I can’t answer your questions yet about the UKMO EN3 OHC data. I haven’t researched yet.

Gary Hladik
May 30, 2012 7:08 pm

Bob Tisdale says (May 30, 2012 at 6:35 pm): “And yet you continue to yak on and on, digging the hole deeper. Your need to self destruct is quite remarkable.”
I wouldn’t mind the self destruct part, but the alarmists are trying to take us with them.
No thanks, Dana. I’ll pass, but I hope you enjoy that Kool-Aid.

May 30, 2012 7:16 pm

well bobs comparison between a single model mean and observations isnt exactly full and plain disclosure as those of us at climate audit demand.
1. you should note how many runs are in the mean. id say 5. maybe less.
2. if you choose to extrapolate a model you must state the uncertainty. with a small number of runs and the short time peroid your going to find out that you cant say much

dana1981
May 30, 2012 7:32 pm

Anthony, was that a genuine offer for a blog post? Because I tried that once before, and you didn’t publish it, which is of course your choice, but I don’t really want to waste the time and effort if nothing’s going to come of it. Not that I’m particularly interested in getting in a blog post war with Tisdale, who amazingly seems to be even more sarcastic than myself.
Regarding Pielke, nothing I said drove him away in tears. To be blunt, he was rather thin-skinned in our discourse with him. Somebody would challenge something he said, and he would run off to his blog and write a post about what big meanies we were at SkS. To be fair, he was in a tough position, having to respond to about a dozen different commenters on his own. Nevertheless, the exchange was quite polite as a whole, as Pielke himself remarked several times.
In fact, there have been several comments in this very post much ruder to me than anything said at SkS to Pielke. One commenting about me being gullible as a 20-year-old; that’s very constructive, thanks. If we’d said something similar to Pielke, you all would have an absolute conniption over it.

REPLY:
Well if you aren’t interested in responding to Tisdale, then I think you’ve set the conditions that pretty much exclude a guest post. If you want to reply to Tisdale (which was the whole point of my offer) that avenue is open.
You really should go back and review how Dr. Pielke was treated on SkS. Your view is a bit rosy. People here might be a bit rude at times, but then again you don’t command the same level of respect and expertise that Dr. Pielke does, and to be frank, a lot of the commentary at SkS primes the response here. We all have our faults, and our baggage of history, but don’t expect kid gloves. – Anthony

markx
May 30, 2012 7:32 pm

Alex C : May 30, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Firstly, kudos to AlexC and Dana 1981 for engaging in the debate here.
Secondly, AlexC mentions a few ‘confounding uncertainties’ re models. Add to that the other uncertainties as per IPCC publication, and I feel perhaps the point that the models may not be the ideal ‘backbone’ to the pro-CAGW argument is upheld.
AlexC said:

….we’ve already posted several times at SkS about:
The increase in aerosol forcing,
The decrease in solar output from the ~2003 peak to a prolonged minimum,
Differences in ENSO (the 1990s seem dominated by El Nino, whereas that’s not quite the case for the 2000s), so on.

….
Add to that the other “uncertainties”:
http://ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch2s2-9-1.html
Listing 10 of the 15 from that page – Now while the IPCC is pretty certain all of these are important, the there seems to be a distinct lack of consensus and understanding:
Showing consensus (3 is lowest) and ‘scientific certainty’ as high, med or low:
Stratospheric water vapour from CH4: 3 Low
Stratospheric water vapour from causes other than CH4 oxidation: 3 Very Low
Direct aerosol: 2 to 3 Medium to Low
Cloud albedo effect (all aerosols): 3 Low
Surface albedo (land use): 2 to 3 Medium to Low
Surface albedo (BC aerosol on snow): 3 Low
Solar irradiance: 3 Low
Volcanic aerosol: 3 Low
Cosmic rays: 3 Very Low
Other surface effects: 3 Very Low
I can’t quite muster up the faith in the models that some seem to have.

ThePhysicsGuy
May 30, 2012 7:35 pm

Why give Dana1981 the time of day? He has not produced any peer reviewed published studies in any journal. He has absolutely zero education in atmospheric physics or anything related to climate science. He is just some climate science wannabe who toes IPCC dogma and rides a stupid “green” scooter. Sorry, but he has not earned the right to produce a “guest post” on WUWT.
REPLY: I welcome knowledgeable posters, with or without PhD’s and with or without peer reviews. Some guest posts previously published on WUWT fall into the “without” category so that really can’t be a basis for exclusion. – Anthony

May 30, 2012 7:37 pm

@JJB MKI:
“@Dana1981 & Alex C
So you’re trying to fell Bob with the argument that the models might be right if they weren’t wrong?
Genius”
I am astounded how many times people seem to like writing “So you’re trying to say” – following Yoda’s advice I didn’t “try,” I *did* say quite clearly that I want to see what the model *actually* predicts. Please see my response to Sleeper, this is getting boring answering such comments.
Bob:
I tried to download the 0-2000m data, I got the data from the monthly observations link here:
http://climexp.knmi.nl/selectfield_obs2.cgi?id=someone@somewhere
The Heat Content, UKMO EN3 Analysis, like you said, 0-2000; the graphs I get when plotting the data are not the same as the ones you gave, did I get the source correct? Which did you use?

RossP
May 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Roger 5.22. Your comment on Bishop Hill you link to makes great reading . Thanks.

Bruce of Newcastle
May 30, 2012 8:19 pm

Alex C says:
May 30, 2012 at 5:19 pm
Tell me too, does this sine wave happen to be around an upward linear trend? Awaiting citation…
AMO sinusoidal that I linked is clear in Fig 1 of Knight et al 2005 (in GRL). But is not mentioned in the paper, perhaps due to the last named coauthor. If there is no physical justification of a sinusoidal cycle then why has this figure been included in the paper? Perhaps they also should not have put the evil word ‘cycles’ in the paper title. Or done power spectrum determinations.
It is my hypothesis that a sine fit would be effective for the Argo data…with the problem that we have only 1/4 of a wavelength of data. However given this signal is present in the PDO, AMO (see citation and my previous link upthread), ENSO and HadCRUT data it seems a fair bet it is present in the Argo data. I am happy extending such a hypothesis because I have been extending many hypotheses to explain datasets in my 30 years as a practicing scientist.
Yes I agree with your comment about a rising trend, until recently. It turns out that rising trend fits neatly with both the Spencer & Braswell 2010 CERES measure of climate sensitivity and the Friis-Christensen finding of the effect of solar magnetism on the long term temperature trend. Which, as the Sun has now moved out of the de Vries grand maximum, means the rising trend has now almost certainly switched to a declining trend.

DavidA
May 30, 2012 8:22 pm

This is half on topic. They have a recent post talking about Himalayan Ice Loss where the following quote is called out in discussion,
“In the high mountains of Central Asia, GRACE imagery found mass losses of -264 mm/a for the 2003-2009 period”
-neg loss i.e. a gain. Trying too hard to paint a negative picture.

May 30, 2012 8:55 pm

Bob is correct not to include error bars, as Gavin Schmidt explains in the link below, model spreads aren’t probability statements, but some people think they are or will interpret them that way.
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/roundtables/the-uncertainty-climate-modeling

DirkH
May 30, 2012 9:05 pm

Steven Mosher says:
May 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm
“2. if you choose to extrapolate a model you must state the uncertainty. with a small number of runs and the short time peroid your going to find out that you cant say much
Which is the entire point of IPCC climate science, is it not, Steven? Scare everybody sh1tless without showing refutable predictions.