A Matter of Some Gravity

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

A couple of apparently related theories have been making the rounds lately. One is by Nikolov and Zeller (N&Z), expounded here and replied to here on WUWT. The other is by Hans Jelbring, discussed at Tallblokes Talkshop. As I understand their theories, they say that the combination of gravity plus an atmosphere without greenhouse gases (GHGs) is capable of doing what the greenhouse effect does—raise the earth at least 30°C above what we might call the “theoretical Stefan-Boltzmann (S-B) temperature.”

So what is the S-B temperature, theoretical or otherwise?

A curious fact is that almost everything around us is continually radiating energy in the infrared frequencies. You, me, the trees, the ocean, clouds, ice, all the common stuff gives off infrared radiation. That’s how night-vision goggles work, they let you see in the infrared. Here’s another oddity. Ice, despite being brilliant white because it reflects slmost all visible light, absorbs infrared very well (absorptivity > 0.90). It turns out that most things absorb (and thus emit) infrared quite well, including the ocean, and plants (see Note 3 below). Because of this, the planet is often treated as a “blackbody” for IR, a perfect absorber and a perfect emitter of infrared radiation. The error introduced in that way is small for first-cut calculations.

The Stefan-Boltzmann equation specifies how much radiation is emitted at a given temperature. It states that the radiation increases much faster than the temperature. It turns out that radiation is proportional to absolute temperature to the fourth power. The equation, for those math inclined, is

Radiation = Emissivity times SBconstant times Temperature^4

where the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is a tiny number, 0.0000000567 (5.67E-8). For a blackbody, emissivity = 1.

This “fourth-power” dependence means that if you double the absolute temperature (measured in kelvins), you get sixteen (2^4) times the radiation (measured in watts per square metre, “W/m2”). We can also look at it the other way, that temperature varies as the fourth root of radiation. That means if we double the radiation, the temperature only goes up by about 20% (2^0.25)

Let me call the “theoretical S-B temperature” the temperature that an evenly heated stationary blackbody planet in outer space would have for a given level of incoming radiation in W/m2. It is “theoretical”, because a real, revolving airless planet getting heated by a sun  with the same average radiation will be cooler than that theoretical S-B temperature. We might imagine that there are thousands of mini-suns in a sphere around the planet, so the surface heating is perfectly even.

Figure 1. Planet lit by multiple suns. Image Source.

On average day and night over the planetary surface, the Earth receives about 240 W/m2 of energy from the sun. The theoretical S-B temperature for this amount of radiation (if it were evenly distributed) is about -18°C, well below freezing. But instead of being frozen, the planet is at about +14°C or so. That’s about thirty degrees above the theoretical S-B temperature. So why isn’t the planet a block of ice?

Let me take a short detour on the way to answering that question in order to introduce the concept of the “elevator speech” to those unfamiliar with the idea.

The “elevator speech” is simply a distillation of an idea down to its very basics. It is how I would explain my idea to you if I only had the length of an elevator ride to explain it. As such it has two extremely important functions:

1. It forces me to clarify my own ideas on whatever I’m discussing. I can’t get into handwaving and hyperbole, I can’t be unclear about what I’m claiming, if I only have a few sentences to work with.

2. It allows me to clearly communicate those ideas to others.

In recent discussions on the subject, I have been asking for that kind of “elevator speech” distillation of Jelbring’s or Nikolov’s ideas, so that a) I can see if whoever is explaining the theory really understands what they are saying and, if so, then b) so that I can gain an understanding of the ideas of Jelbring or Nikolov to see if I am missing something important.

Let me give you an example to show what I mean. Here’s an elevator speech about the greenhouse effect:

The poorly-named “greenhouse effect” works as follows:

• The surface of the earth emits energy in the form of thermal longwave radiation.

• Some of that energy is absorbed by greenhouse gases (GHGs) in the atmosphere.

• In turn, some of that absorbed energy is radiated by the atmosphere back to the surface.

• As a result of absorbing that energy from the atmosphere, the surface is warmer than it would be in the absence of the GHGs.

 OK, that’s my elevator speech about why the Earth is not a block of ice. Note that it is not just saying what is happening. It is saying how it is happening as well.

I have asked, over and over, on various threads, for people who understand either the N&Z theory or the Jelbring theory, to give me the equivalent elevator speech regarding either or both of those theories. I have gotten nothing scientific so far. Oh, there’s the usual handwaving, vague claims of things like ‘the extra heat at the surface, is just borrowed by the work due to gravity, from the higher up regions of the atmosphere‘ with no mechanism for the “borrowing”, that kind of empty statement. But nothing with any meat, nothing with any substance, nothing with any explanatory value or scientific content.

So to begin with, let me renew my call for the elevator speech on either theory. Both of them make my head hurt, I can’t really follow their vague descriptions. So … is anyone who understands either theory willing to step forward and explain it in four or five sentences?

But that’s not really why I’m writing this. I’m writing this because of the claims of the promoters of the two theories. They say that somehow a combination of gravity and a transparent, GHG-free atmosphere can conspire to push the temperature of a planet well above the theoretical S-B temperature, to a condition similar to that of the Earth.

I hold that with a transparent GHG-free atmosphere, neither the hypothetical “N&Z effect” nor the “Jelbring effect” can possibly raise the planetary temperature above the theoretical S-B temperature. But I also make a much more general claim. I hold it can be proven that there is no possible mechanism involving gravity and the atmosphere that can raise the temperature of a planet with a transparent GHG-free atmosphere above the theoretical S-B temperature.

The proof is by contradiction. This is a proof where you assume that the theorem is right, and then show that if it is right it leads to an impossible situation, so it cannot possibly be right.

So let us assume that we have the airless perfectly evenly heated blackbody planet that I spoke of above, evenly surrounded by a sphere of mini-suns. The temperature of this theoretical planet is, of course, the theoretical S-B temperature.

Now suppose we add an atmosphere to the planet, a transparent GHG-free atmosphere. If the theories of N&K and Jelbring are correct, the temperature of the planet will rise.

But when the temperature of a perfect blackbody planet rises … the surface radiation of that planet must rise as well.

And because the atmosphere is transparent, this means that the planet is radiating to space more energy than it receives. This is an obvious violation of conservation of energy, so any theories proposing such a warming must be incorrect.

Q.E.D.

Now, I’m happy for folks to comment on this proof, or to give us their elevator speech about the Jelbring or the N&Z hypothesis. I’m not happy to be abused for my supposed stupidity, nor attacked for my views, nor pilloried for claimed errors of commission and omission. People are already way too passionate about this stuff. Roger Tattersall, the author of the blog “Tallbloke’s Talkshop”, has banned Joel Shore for saying that the N&Z hypothesis violates conservation of energy. Roger’s exact words to Joel were:

… you’re not posting here unless and until you apologise to Nikolov and Zeller for spreading misinformation about conservation of energy in their theory all over the blogosphere and failing to correct it.

Now, I have done the very same thing that Joel did. I’ve said around the web that the N&Z theory violates conservation of energy. So I went to the Talkshop and asked, even implored, Roger not to do such a foolish and anti-scientific thing as banning someone for their scientific views. Since I hold the same views and I committed the same thought-crimes, it was more than theoretical to me. Roger has remained obdurate, however, so I am no longer able to post there in good conscience. Roger Tallbloke has been a gentleman throughout, as is his style, and I hated to leave. But I did what Joel did, I too said N&Z violated conservation of energy, so in solidarity and fairness I’m not posting at the Talkshop anymore.

And more to the point, even if I hadn’t done what Joel did, my practice is to never post at or even visit sites like RealClimate, Tamino’s, and now Tallbloke’s Talkshop, places that ban and censor scientific views. I don’t want to be responsible for their page views counter to go up by even one. Banning and censorship are anathema to me, and I protest them in the only way I can. I leave them behind to discuss their ideas in their now cleansed, peaceful, sanitized, and intellectually sterile echo chamber, free from those pesky contrary views … and I invite others to vote with their feet as well.

But I digress, my point is that passions are running high on this topic, so let’s see if we can keep the discussion at least relatively chill …

TO CONCLUDE: I’m interested in people who can either show that my proof is wrong, or who will give us your elevator speech about the science underlying either N&K or Jelbring’s theory. No new theories need apply, we have enough for this post. And no long complicated explanations, please. I have boiled the greenhouse effect down to four sentences. See if you can match that regarding the N&K or the Jelbring effect.

w.

NOTE 1: Here’s the thing about a planet with a transparent atmosphere. There is only one object that can radiate to space, the surface. As a result, it is constrained to emit the exact amount of radiation it absorbs. So there are no gravity/atmospheric phenomena that can change that. It cannot emit more or less than what it absorbs while staying at the same temperature, conservation of energy ensures that. This means that while the temperature can be lower than the theoretical S-B temperature, as is the case with the moon, it cannot be more than the theoretical S-B temperature. To do that it would have to radiate more than it is receiving, and that breaks the conservation of energy.

Once you have GHGs in the atmosphere, of course, some of the surface radiation can get absorbed in the atmosphere. In that case, the surface radiation is no longer constrained, and the surface is free to take up a higher temperature while the system as a whole emits the same amount of radiation to space that it absorbs.

NOTE 2: An atmosphere, even a GHG-free atmosphere, can reduce the cooling due to uneven insolation. The hottest possible average temperature for a given average level of radiation (W/m2) occurs when the heating is uniform in both time and space. If the total surface radiation remains the same (as it must with a transparent atmosphere), any variations in temperature from that uniform state will lower the average temperature. Variations include day/night temperature differences, and equator/polar differences. Since any atmosphere can reduce the size of e.g. day/night temperature swings, even a transparent GHG-free atmosphere will reduce the amount of cooling caused by the temperature swings. See here for further discussion.

But what such an atmosphere cannot do is raise the temperature beyond the theoretical maximum average temperature for that given level of incoming radiation. That’s against the law … of conservation of energy.

NOTE 3: My bible for many things climatish, including the emissivity (which is equal to the absorptivity) of common substances, is Geiger’s The Climate Near The Ground, first published sometime around the fifties when people still measured things instead of modeling them. He gives the following figures for IR emissivity at 9 to 12 microns:

Water, 0.96

Fresh snow, 0.99

Dry sand, 0.95

Wet sand, 0.96

Forest, deciduous, 0.95

Forest, conifer, 0.97

Leaves Corn, Beans, 0.94

and so on down to things like:

Mouse fur, 0.94

Glass, 0.94

You can see why the error from considering the earth as a blackbody in the IR is quite small.

I must admit, though, that I do greatly enjoy the idea of some boffin at midnight in his laboratory measuring the emissivity of common substances when he hears the snap of the mousetrap he set earlier, and he thinks, hmmm …

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Ed Fix
January 14, 2012 7:54 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 14, 2012 at 5:48 pm
…you claim that non-GHG gases radiate in the IR, so you’ll have to rebuild the parts of your theory that depend on that incorrect claim.

Willis, you’re conflating absorption with emission. Any body, solid or fluid, emits electromagnetic radiation with a spectrum determined by the S-B relationship. A body’s transparency spectrum is independent of its emission spectrum. They’re separate processes.
A transparent body of gas, however, is different from a solid body in that we can see EM radiation emitted throughout the volume, not just at the surface. Specifically, at those wavelengths where the gasseous body is transparent, we see the emissions from the entire depth at full intensity. However, at those wavelengths the intervening gas can absorb, we see a notch in the intensity spectrum. Carbon dioxide happens to absorb a wavelength of EM near the peak of the earth’s overall S-B radiation spectrum (about 15 micrometers), but it re-emits S-B radiation in a smooth spectrum depending on its temperature only. Just like any other body of matter.
So I reiterate, an atmosphere containing a greenhouse gas gains heat both by conduction through contact with the surface, and by absorbing the earth’s (and the surrounding atmosphere’s) S-B radiation at some wavelength, while a non-GHG atmosphere is transparent to all EM wavelengths, and gains heat energy only by conduction. Both, however, emit their own S-B radiation in a spectrum determined only by their temperature.

Come back when you have spent the time refining it

I may do that at some point, but I’ve spent far too much time on this today already.

evilincandescentbulb
January 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Elevator speech: N&Z do not believe you can draw conclusions about the effects fo GHGs on the climate without understanding the effects of any atmospheric gas on climate–irrespective of the composition of the gas–when atmosheric pressure is added as a variable.

Tim Folkerts
January 14, 2012 8:05 pm

Ed Fix mistakenly thinks: “Both, however, emit their own S-B radiation in a spectrum determined only by their temperature.”
Sorry Ed, but the ability to emit IR is the same as the ability to absorb IR. If this were not true, it would be easy to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Google “Kirchhoff’s law of thermal radiation” (for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchhoff%27s_law_of_thermal_radiation) for more info.

Jim D
January 14, 2012 8:11 pm

Elevator speech on Jelbring:
The atmosphere is warmer as you go down in it because of the adiabatic lapse rate (g/cp) therefore greenhouse gases have nothing to do with the adiabatic lapse rate (true). The adiabatic lapse rate causes the greenhouse effect (false).
Elevator speech on Nikolov and Zeller:
You can fit a four-parameter curve to surface temperature over blackbody temperature ratio of seven solar system atmospheres just as a function of mass (not albedo or composition or clouds!). Therefore these other things don’t matter. It doesn’t matter that you can’t derive this curve except by a mathematical fit to the data. Who needs to explain why it fits?

Derek Miller
January 14, 2012 8:17 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm
Sure. If there is no way for a gas to radiate energy, and it is isolated, it will stay at the same temperature indefinitely. I think N2 absorbs/emits very, very, very weakly in the IR, so it might cool over thousands of years, but basically indefinitely for practical purposes.
__
Uh, no. “All matter with a temperature greater than absolute zero emits thermal radiation”! The only difference between “greenhouse” gases and the others is that they absorb IR LOTS better than the others–they don’t emit IR any differently. Think about it like this, heat Xg samples of CO2 and Argon to the same temperature and put into separate Dewars (or do it at home in a thermos!). Measure the temperature after 1 hour. I can guarantee that they would be at the same temperature to within the error of the experiment.

Jim D
January 14, 2012 8:19 pm

By the way, N&Z believe the blackbody temperature of the earth to be 154.3 K in disagreement with just about everyone else including Jelbring who believe it should be 255 K, so their mathematical fit may be flawed at this basic level.

Dr Burns
January 14, 2012 8:20 pm

Willis, I feel you are getting a little emotional. There is no justification in your SNIP.
The flaws in your model include ignoring the earth’s 70% cloud cover and assuming that the earth is primarily a solid rather than a liquid surface. These flaws allow only radiation as the heat transport mechanism. Radiation is insignificant between the earth’s surface and clouds, where the major heat transport mechanisms are convection and evaporation.
No wonder you find GHG’s having a major impact when you only consider radiation. You should be considering radiation from cold clouds to space rather than radiation from a warm earth surface.

willb
January 14, 2012 8:24 pm

@Willis Eschenbach
Here is my best shot at an elevator speech explaining the N&Z “greenhouse effect”. The N&Z effect works as follows:
• The sun transfers energy via radiation to the earth, warming the earth.
• The surface of the earth transfers energy into the (non-GHG) atmosphere through conduction, heating the atmosphere.
• Earth’s gravity causes an altitude-dependent temperature and pressure lapse rate to form in the atmosphere. The atmospheric temperature and pressure drop as altitude increases with the temperature ultimately dropping to that of deep space (~3K).
• Atmospheric gases heated conductively at the earth’s surface then convectively rise through the pressure lapse rate.
• As the temperature of the atmosphere drops towards that of deep space, the rising gases transition through a number of phase changes (e.g. gas => liquid => solid-a => solid-b). At the occurrence of each phase change the atmosphere releases latent heat in the form of radiation.
• Some of the radiating energy from the released latent heat is directed downward through the gaseous, IR-transparent atmosphere and is absorbed by the earth.
• As a result of absorbing that latent heat energy from the atmosphere, the surface is warmer than it would be in the absence of the (non-GHG) atmosphere.

Alan Wilkinson
January 14, 2012 8:33 pm

JIm D, great elevator attempt. However you may be over-generous in awarding one true point to Jelbring. I doubt the (observable) adiabatic lapse rate is independent of GH gasses since without radiation there is no convection and therefore as Roy Spencer points out the atmosphere becomes isothermal by conduction (violating the adiabatic premise)?

Jim D
January 14, 2012 8:42 pm

Alan Wilkinson, yes there is a debate on the point of what the laps rate would be with no GHGs. Some believe isothermal, some adiabatic (well mixed), some in between (slightly stable).

eyesonu
January 14, 2012 8:44 pm

As I said previously, the science is not settled. There is a lot to be digested here.
Damn if I know the answer! There is certainly no consensus.
I have a view point, but uncertain enough to not express it. When in doubt, keep my mouth shut but my eyes wide open. I’ll keep my eyes wide open.
Willis tried to break it down to components, but it seems much more involved that a simple solution as expressed by many. Chaotic? Idono. Maybe the whole shebang is more than can be modeled if we can’t get one single factor agreed upon. There are many.

Tim Folkerts
January 14, 2012 8:47 pm

Roy Spencer is wrong.
I didn’t think I would say that about a basic physics idea, but he is incorrect when stating “If the atmosphere cannot absorb/emit IR, it would become isothermal, and all convection would cease. ”
It would become isentropic, not isothermal. At equilibrium, both the temperature and the density will decrease with altitude. This is the required condition for the stopping of convection, not being isothermal. This is directly related to the idea of “adiabatic lapse rate”.
See http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/weather/atphys.htm
or
http://maths.ucd.ie/met/msc/PhysMet/PhysMetLectNotes.pdf

Phil's Dad
January 14, 2012 8:55 pm

The temperature of the radiating surface would be unaffected by pressure changes in a transparent atmosphere. If that is all the post is saying I agree. I am less sure that N&Z are dealing with transparent atmospheres in equilibrium when they hypothesise that the green house effect is negligible overall.
Cue lift music
* A “greenhouse”-gas-free atmosphere (by definition one which can not be involved in long wave radiation) will still pick up heat from the surface by conduction and mix it throughout the atmosphere by convection cells until it reaches stability (something like the surface heat at the warmest point / the equator normally, but your sphere of suns means all points will be equal so I would accept a lower adiabatic profile in this case).
* Until this balance is reached overall radiation-out will be lower than radiation-in as some of the energy at the surface is conducted away from the radiating surface and stored by the atmosphere.
* It can thus act as a reservoir for heat, resulting in a temperature at any given height above the ground surface depending on the density (heat is stored by the molecules. Less molecules per cubic foot = less heat per cubic foot = lower measured temperature) but changes to the atmospheric heat content would be very slow as exchange can only happen at the point of contact between surface and atmosphere.
* If you add more of this “transparent” atmosphere [which is, I think, the mechanism N&Z are talking about] it will be able to hold more heat overall but it must still get this extra heat from conduction at the surface unless it is already warmed elsewhere (e.g. volcanic [again as N&Z suggest if I recall correctly]).
* Because gravity is present, the density of that increased atmosphere near the surface will increase (I.e. there will be now be more of the atmosphere present near the surface than before) and it follows that there will be more heat present (per cubic foot as it were) leading to higher near surface temperatures.
And for the lift journey back down.
* It is tempting to think that the heat in the conductive bottom layer of the atmosphere can not exceed that of the surface from which it first gets that heat energy.
* The atmosphere has however built up a store of heat as described above in the total volume of atmosphere.
* If that is compressed as described because volume has been added to it (note I am ignoring for now the act of compression – assuming measurement after the compression is complete) the amount of heat can (temporarily) exceed that at the surface.
* By definition it can not radiate this heat away. It will however pass some of this heat back to the ground to restore equilibrium at the conductive layer. (Much more slowly than conductive warming as convection constantly interferes.)
* That will temporarily (but for a very long time) result in more radiation out than in, without breaking any laws.
In the very fullness of time a transparent atmosphere would always return to match the radiating surface (at its long term warmest point) but this would be a very (very) slow process (cooling more slowly than it warms) and in shorter time scales temperature would be pressure dependant as N&Z suggest.
So Wills and N&Z can both be right but not on the the same timescale.
Does this apply to the Earth? Obviously not entirely as we do not have a transparent atmosphere, we have other stuff like night and day and a single light source, spin, wobble…
Does that mean N&Z idea makes no contribution at all?

David
January 14, 2012 9:01 pm

Willis Eschenbach says
January 14, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Willis, are you saying that if I am suspended in space, and a stream of 8,000 degrees N2 jets by me at say 10′ away, (nothing but the vacume of space between me and the gas) I will feel nothing and my thermometer will register nothing, but if that stream of gas, again with 10′ of the vacume of space separating me, streams past, I will feel emense heat from the radiating CO2, but none from the non radiating N2?

Allen63
January 14, 2012 9:03 pm

Well, I didn’t read 400 comments. So, maybe someone already suggested this.
The “Planet” is not uniformly heated by a thousand suns — there is just one. [SNIP: No, it’s evenly heated. If you want to discuss your situation, write your own post. w.]

January 14, 2012 9:04 pm

Willis says,
WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE EARTH! REPEAT AFTER ME! WILLIS IS DISCUSSING A HYPOTHETICAL PLANET, NOT THE EARTH!
OK, lets imagine the atmosphere on this hypothetical planet (that is evenly irradiated) has five times the mass of the solid portion. And, within the bounds of the hypothetical example imagine a second planet where the atmosphere has just 1% of the mass of the solid portion, the diameter of the sold portions in each case being similar. So, they both gather the same amount of radiation.
Then let us imagine that the only means of heat transfer to space is via radiation from the solid portion. But the atmosphere’s in each case are heated by conduction, i.e. collision of molecules.
The atmospheres will not be equal in temperature from top to bottom. Temperature will relate to density.
Will the equilibrium temperature of the atmosphere at two meters above the surface be greater in the planet with the denser atmosphere?
I say yes, the planet with the denser atmosphere will impart more energy to a thermometer.
Add a greenhouse gas to the denser atmosphere. It will become cooler and so will the surface of the planet because the surface that is emitting will be enlarged and there is still the same amount of energy to go round.

Baa Humbug
January 14, 2012 9:05 pm

Alan Wilkinson says:
January 14, 2012 at 8:33 pm

as Roy Spencer points out the atmosphere becomes isothermal by conduction

Precisely. And on a spherical body like a planet, the atmosphere can only become isothermal when it reaches the temperature of the warmest part of the surface, i.e. the equator.
This means the temperature of the ATMOSPHERE WILL BE HIGHER than the average temperature of the SURFACE as defined by the SB equation.
This has profound implications for the greenhouse hypotheses.

David
January 14, 2012 9:08 pm

Open question; Surface heat conducts to the non GHG atmosphere, Can non GHG molecues conduct heat to the surface?

David
January 14, 2012 9:13 pm

David says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 14, 2012 at 9:01 pm
Willis Eschenbach says
January 14, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Willis, are you saying that if I am suspended in space, and a stream of 8,000 degrees N2 jets by me at say 10′ away, (nothing but the vacume of space between me and the gas) I will feel nothing and my thermometer will register nothing, but if that stream of gas IS COMPOSED OF CO2 and jets past, again with 10′ of the vacume of space separating me from the gas, I will feel emense heat from the radiating CO2, but none from the non radiating N2?
This clarifies my poorly worded question at 8:05.

January 14, 2012 9:14 pm

NoIdea says:
January 14, 2012 at 1:09 pm

Were the earth’s atmosphere substantially deeper, then the temperature near the surface would be higher. I suspect that means that the temperature in say a deep hole (mine) on the earth would be higher (absent any geothermal effects that is).

Dunno if you will get to see this in such a long thread, but you are correct. The Mediterranean has been waterless (or almost so) several times in Earth history. At the bottom, the estimated atmospheric temperature would have reached ~80C. Some of the minerals formed there by evaporation only form at high temperatures. Or so I was taught…

January 14, 2012 9:19 pm

Baa Humbug said January 14, 2012 at 9:05 pm

Precisely. And on a spherical body like a planet, the atmosphere can only become isothermal when it reaches the temperature of the warmest part of the surface, i.e. the equator.
This means the temperature of the ATMOSPHERE WILL BE HIGHER than the average temperature of the SURFACE as defined by the SB equation.
This has profound implications for the greenhouse hypotheses.

In Willis’s pedagogical example, the toy planet is lit uniformly by many suns. Every part of its surface is “at the equator”.

jorgekafkazar
January 14, 2012 9:31 pm

Thus spake Willis: “…Oxygen may well emit visible if it gets as warm as the sun, I don’t know….”
I do know what oxygen does when it gets “warm” enough. It’s called aurora borealis in this hemisphere. At 900°C +/- 300°. Fairly cool, relatively speaking.
Like it or not, the elevator speech concept is valid. I think Nikolov & Zeller and Jelbring have overlooked some critical point necessary to make their case. Either that, or they’ve failed to explain some key concept or assumption. Maybe next month they’ll connect the dots.

January 14, 2012 9:33 pm

Dr Burns said January 14, 2012 at 8:20 pm

The flaws in your model include ignoring the earth’s 70% cloud cover and assuming that the earth is primarily a solid rather than a liquid surface. These flaws allow only radiation as the heat transport mechanism. Radiation is insignificant between the earth’s surface and clouds, where the major heat transport mechanisms are convection and evaporation.
No wonder you find GHG’s having a major impact when you only consider radiation. You should be considering radiation from cold clouds to space rather than radiation from a warm earth surface.

There are no clouds in Willis’s pedagogical example. That’s the whole point of the example: to simplify in order to teach a very basic lesson that few seem willing to learn. It’s as if everyone wants to become Beethoven without learning the rudiments of musical composition.

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