A Matter of Some Gravity

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

A couple of apparently related theories have been making the rounds lately. One is by Nikolov and Zeller (N&Z), expounded here and replied to here on WUWT. The other is by Hans Jelbring, discussed at Tallblokes Talkshop. As I understand their theories, they say that the combination of gravity plus an atmosphere without greenhouse gases (GHGs) is capable of doing what the greenhouse effect does—raise the earth at least 30°C above what we might call the “theoretical Stefan-Boltzmann (S-B) temperature.”

So what is the S-B temperature, theoretical or otherwise?

A curious fact is that almost everything around us is continually radiating energy in the infrared frequencies. You, me, the trees, the ocean, clouds, ice, all the common stuff gives off infrared radiation. That’s how night-vision goggles work, they let you see in the infrared. Here’s another oddity. Ice, despite being brilliant white because it reflects slmost all visible light, absorbs infrared very well (absorptivity > 0.90). It turns out that most things absorb (and thus emit) infrared quite well, including the ocean, and plants (see Note 3 below). Because of this, the planet is often treated as a “blackbody” for IR, a perfect absorber and a perfect emitter of infrared radiation. The error introduced in that way is small for first-cut calculations.

The Stefan-Boltzmann equation specifies how much radiation is emitted at a given temperature. It states that the radiation increases much faster than the temperature. It turns out that radiation is proportional to absolute temperature to the fourth power. The equation, for those math inclined, is

Radiation = Emissivity times SBconstant times Temperature^4

where the Stefan-Boltzmann constant is a tiny number, 0.0000000567 (5.67E-8). For a blackbody, emissivity = 1.

This “fourth-power” dependence means that if you double the absolute temperature (measured in kelvins), you get sixteen (2^4) times the radiation (measured in watts per square metre, “W/m2”). We can also look at it the other way, that temperature varies as the fourth root of radiation. That means if we double the radiation, the temperature only goes up by about 20% (2^0.25)

Let me call the “theoretical S-B temperature” the temperature that an evenly heated stationary blackbody planet in outer space would have for a given level of incoming radiation in W/m2. It is “theoretical”, because a real, revolving airless planet getting heated by a sun  with the same average radiation will be cooler than that theoretical S-B temperature. We might imagine that there are thousands of mini-suns in a sphere around the planet, so the surface heating is perfectly even.

Figure 1. Planet lit by multiple suns. Image Source.

On average day and night over the planetary surface, the Earth receives about 240 W/m2 of energy from the sun. The theoretical S-B temperature for this amount of radiation (if it were evenly distributed) is about -18°C, well below freezing. But instead of being frozen, the planet is at about +14°C or so. That’s about thirty degrees above the theoretical S-B temperature. So why isn’t the planet a block of ice?

Let me take a short detour on the way to answering that question in order to introduce the concept of the “elevator speech” to those unfamiliar with the idea.

The “elevator speech” is simply a distillation of an idea down to its very basics. It is how I would explain my idea to you if I only had the length of an elevator ride to explain it. As such it has two extremely important functions:

1. It forces me to clarify my own ideas on whatever I’m discussing. I can’t get into handwaving and hyperbole, I can’t be unclear about what I’m claiming, if I only have a few sentences to work with.

2. It allows me to clearly communicate those ideas to others.

In recent discussions on the subject, I have been asking for that kind of “elevator speech” distillation of Jelbring’s or Nikolov’s ideas, so that a) I can see if whoever is explaining the theory really understands what they are saying and, if so, then b) so that I can gain an understanding of the ideas of Jelbring or Nikolov to see if I am missing something important.

Let me give you an example to show what I mean. Here’s an elevator speech about the greenhouse effect:

The poorly-named “greenhouse effect” works as follows:

• The surface of the earth emits energy in the form of thermal longwave radiation.

• Some of that energy is absorbed by greenhouse gases (GHGs) in the atmosphere.

• In turn, some of that absorbed energy is radiated by the atmosphere back to the surface.

• As a result of absorbing that energy from the atmosphere, the surface is warmer than it would be in the absence of the GHGs.

 OK, that’s my elevator speech about why the Earth is not a block of ice. Note that it is not just saying what is happening. It is saying how it is happening as well.

I have asked, over and over, on various threads, for people who understand either the N&Z theory or the Jelbring theory, to give me the equivalent elevator speech regarding either or both of those theories. I have gotten nothing scientific so far. Oh, there’s the usual handwaving, vague claims of things like ‘the extra heat at the surface, is just borrowed by the work due to gravity, from the higher up regions of the atmosphere‘ with no mechanism for the “borrowing”, that kind of empty statement. But nothing with any meat, nothing with any substance, nothing with any explanatory value or scientific content.

So to begin with, let me renew my call for the elevator speech on either theory. Both of them make my head hurt, I can’t really follow their vague descriptions. So … is anyone who understands either theory willing to step forward and explain it in four or five sentences?

But that’s not really why I’m writing this. I’m writing this because of the claims of the promoters of the two theories. They say that somehow a combination of gravity and a transparent, GHG-free atmosphere can conspire to push the temperature of a planet well above the theoretical S-B temperature, to a condition similar to that of the Earth.

I hold that with a transparent GHG-free atmosphere, neither the hypothetical “N&Z effect” nor the “Jelbring effect” can possibly raise the planetary temperature above the theoretical S-B temperature. But I also make a much more general claim. I hold it can be proven that there is no possible mechanism involving gravity and the atmosphere that can raise the temperature of a planet with a transparent GHG-free atmosphere above the theoretical S-B temperature.

The proof is by contradiction. This is a proof where you assume that the theorem is right, and then show that if it is right it leads to an impossible situation, so it cannot possibly be right.

So let us assume that we have the airless perfectly evenly heated blackbody planet that I spoke of above, evenly surrounded by a sphere of mini-suns. The temperature of this theoretical planet is, of course, the theoretical S-B temperature.

Now suppose we add an atmosphere to the planet, a transparent GHG-free atmosphere. If the theories of N&K and Jelbring are correct, the temperature of the planet will rise.

But when the temperature of a perfect blackbody planet rises … the surface radiation of that planet must rise as well.

And because the atmosphere is transparent, this means that the planet is radiating to space more energy than it receives. This is an obvious violation of conservation of energy, so any theories proposing such a warming must be incorrect.

Q.E.D.

Now, I’m happy for folks to comment on this proof, or to give us their elevator speech about the Jelbring or the N&Z hypothesis. I’m not happy to be abused for my supposed stupidity, nor attacked for my views, nor pilloried for claimed errors of commission and omission. People are already way too passionate about this stuff. Roger Tattersall, the author of the blog “Tallbloke’s Talkshop”, has banned Joel Shore for saying that the N&Z hypothesis violates conservation of energy. Roger’s exact words to Joel were:

… you’re not posting here unless and until you apologise to Nikolov and Zeller for spreading misinformation about conservation of energy in their theory all over the blogosphere and failing to correct it.

Now, I have done the very same thing that Joel did. I’ve said around the web that the N&Z theory violates conservation of energy. So I went to the Talkshop and asked, even implored, Roger not to do such a foolish and anti-scientific thing as banning someone for their scientific views. Since I hold the same views and I committed the same thought-crimes, it was more than theoretical to me. Roger has remained obdurate, however, so I am no longer able to post there in good conscience. Roger Tallbloke has been a gentleman throughout, as is his style, and I hated to leave. But I did what Joel did, I too said N&Z violated conservation of energy, so in solidarity and fairness I’m not posting at the Talkshop anymore.

And more to the point, even if I hadn’t done what Joel did, my practice is to never post at or even visit sites like RealClimate, Tamino’s, and now Tallbloke’s Talkshop, places that ban and censor scientific views. I don’t want to be responsible for their page views counter to go up by even one. Banning and censorship are anathema to me, and I protest them in the only way I can. I leave them behind to discuss their ideas in their now cleansed, peaceful, sanitized, and intellectually sterile echo chamber, free from those pesky contrary views … and I invite others to vote with their feet as well.

But I digress, my point is that passions are running high on this topic, so let’s see if we can keep the discussion at least relatively chill …

TO CONCLUDE: I’m interested in people who can either show that my proof is wrong, or who will give us your elevator speech about the science underlying either N&K or Jelbring’s theory. No new theories need apply, we have enough for this post. And no long complicated explanations, please. I have boiled the greenhouse effect down to four sentences. See if you can match that regarding the N&K or the Jelbring effect.

w.

NOTE 1: Here’s the thing about a planet with a transparent atmosphere. There is only one object that can radiate to space, the surface. As a result, it is constrained to emit the exact amount of radiation it absorbs. So there are no gravity/atmospheric phenomena that can change that. It cannot emit more or less than what it absorbs while staying at the same temperature, conservation of energy ensures that. This means that while the temperature can be lower than the theoretical S-B temperature, as is the case with the moon, it cannot be more than the theoretical S-B temperature. To do that it would have to radiate more than it is receiving, and that breaks the conservation of energy.

Once you have GHGs in the atmosphere, of course, some of the surface radiation can get absorbed in the atmosphere. In that case, the surface radiation is no longer constrained, and the surface is free to take up a higher temperature while the system as a whole emits the same amount of radiation to space that it absorbs.

NOTE 2: An atmosphere, even a GHG-free atmosphere, can reduce the cooling due to uneven insolation. The hottest possible average temperature for a given average level of radiation (W/m2) occurs when the heating is uniform in both time and space. If the total surface radiation remains the same (as it must with a transparent atmosphere), any variations in temperature from that uniform state will lower the average temperature. Variations include day/night temperature differences, and equator/polar differences. Since any atmosphere can reduce the size of e.g. day/night temperature swings, even a transparent GHG-free atmosphere will reduce the amount of cooling caused by the temperature swings. See here for further discussion.

But what such an atmosphere cannot do is raise the temperature beyond the theoretical maximum average temperature for that given level of incoming radiation. That’s against the law … of conservation of energy.

NOTE 3: My bible for many things climatish, including the emissivity (which is equal to the absorptivity) of common substances, is Geiger’s The Climate Near The Ground, first published sometime around the fifties when people still measured things instead of modeling them. He gives the following figures for IR emissivity at 9 to 12 microns:

Water, 0.96

Fresh snow, 0.99

Dry sand, 0.95

Wet sand, 0.96

Forest, deciduous, 0.95

Forest, conifer, 0.97

Leaves Corn, Beans, 0.94

and so on down to things like:

Mouse fur, 0.94

Glass, 0.94

You can see why the error from considering the earth as a blackbody in the IR is quite small.

I must admit, though, that I do greatly enjoy the idea of some boffin at midnight in his laboratory measuring the emissivity of common substances when he hears the snap of the mousetrap he set earlier, and he thinks, hmmm …

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LazyTeenager
January 14, 2012 6:45 pm

crosspatch says:
January 13, 2012 at 11:24 pm
I have used light amplification night vision devices that also had IR capability along with an IR search lamp built into the device for use in completely dark conditions (inside of something where there is no ambient light to amplify).
————
These are near infrared devices which are different again from thermal Infrared imaging devices.

tallbloke
January 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Willis: a little bit of reasonableness goes a long way with me, so thanks for that. It’s way past bedtime here so I’ll sleep on it and hope that the N&Z response to comments update is in my inbox when I awake. After I’ve digested that, and kicked it around for a while with my friends, I’ll be closer to formulating a brief summary.
You shouldn’t try to hurry good science. Savour it and mull it around before describing it.
Cheers
TB.

u.k.(us)
January 14, 2012 6:56 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
January 14, 2012 at 5:41 pm
….”I defy you to find anything in that statement about him disrupting your poor little thread.”
=========
Poor little thread ?,
Rein in that horse, Willis.
We are trying to spread information, or have I been reading the wrong blog for the last 3 years ?
Petty arguments, achieve nothing.

eyesonu
January 14, 2012 7:00 pm

Willis, I believe I understand what you tried to do here. That was to try to factor out one of sooo many variables regarding the chaotic nature of the atmosphere. The results of your noble attempt has become chaotic.
It seems that nothing is settled or that a consensus has been reached.
Thank you for generating such a discussion.

Willy
January 14, 2012 7:08 pm

Willis says: “We’re not discussing the earth, we’re discussing a planet with no water (“GHG-free atmosphere”). So your points have no meaning in this discussion.”
Thanks for taking the time to read my remarks. I should have been more clear on the point that I was not using the GHG properties of water vapor. I was using its evaporative cooling effect. So lets specifically ignore radiative properties and only consider the effect of evaporative cooling.
[No, lets not. No water. No evaporation, thanks. Read the head post again. Follow the instructions. w.]

LazyTeenager
January 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Wayne says
Also, if there is any absorption of radiation by the air, then more radiation would be absorbed lower due to the increased density and that can be from both solar radiation and surface infrared radiation. That too causes more warming lower.
—————
Depends. This would only be true if the green house density changed. Since the original question was about changing N2 only, you need to justify why the green house gases have changed. If CO2 is the only GHG to be considered then the claim that more radiation would be absorbed is likely wrong.

Editor
January 14, 2012 7:18 pm

Willis wrote:

While this is not my site, it is my thread, and I said I would snip anything off-topic. Now I do that and you want to complain.

A link to the paper that is the subject of the post is off topic? Personally, I can’t imagine writing a post without linking to the subject.
[SNIP: I pointed out that Tallbloke above has linked to the paper. The rest of your post is merely complaining. Where is your elevator speech in defense of the theory? . w.]

LazyTeenager
January 14, 2012 7:28 pm

Hoser quotes Willis and says
A curious fact is that almost everything around us is continually radiating energy in the infrared frequencies. You, me, the trees, the ocean, clouds, ice, all the common stuff gives off infrared radiation.
>>>>>>>>And the air.
No. The air does not radiate as a black body.
The air radiates according to the ability of its component molecules to radiate. Molecules radiate electromagnetic radiation according to the same rules that apply to a radio aerial. In other words to produce IR emissions from a molecule the bond vibrations need to produce an oscillating electric field.
Vibrations of a homonuclear diatomic like N2 or O2 cannot do this at all. No way, no how.
Asymmetric molecules like CO can emit.
Symmetric molecules like CO2 can emit via bending modes that are asymmetrical and cannot via bending modes that are symmetrical.
So Willis is correct and Hoser is wrong.

LazyTeenager
January 14, 2012 7:32 pm

Higley7 says
If I remember my light physics correctly, light energy is lost by destructive interference laterally during transmission through the atmosphere. I do not know what proportion is lost but the sky is blue because of the lateral dispersion.
———–
Sorry no.
Nothing to do with
1. Lateral dispersion
2. Interference
Look up the definitions of these terms and while you are at it look up Rayleigh scattering.

Dr Burns
January 14, 2012 7:35 pm

I think that Willis’ elevator model is flawed. A more realistic model is …
[SNIP: Put your alternative theories and models on your own thread, please. We’re discussing a particular model here, not your model. Thanks, w.]

evilincandescentbulb
January 14, 2012 7:36 pm

How hard can it be?
Elevator speech: Venus …
[SNIP: It is harder than you think, because I asked for an elevator speech about the N&Z or Jelbring theories, not about Venus. That’s not only off-topic, it’s off-planet. w.]

LazyTeenager
January 14, 2012 7:36 pm

Crosshatch says
Model the atmosphere as a bunch of concentric surfaces that are transparent to IR but still radiate
————-
That would be a violation of a physical law.
If the atmosphere is transparent to IR it is impossible for it to radiate IR.

Leonard Weinstein
January 14, 2012 7:38 pm

Willis,
In your response to me at 3:52 pm, you responded to the following:
Leonard Weinstein says:January 14, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Willis,
I have stated the cause of the greenhouse effect in basic terms in a previous reply. The issue I want to discuss is your claim that if the amount of greenhouse gases was constant, but non greenhouse gases (O2 and N2) increased, there would be no change in ground level temperature.

God damn it, Leonard, QUOTE MY WORDS. I have no recollection of saying anything of the sort, I don’t know the context, I don’t know if you understood me, I haven’t a clue what you are referring to.

In fact I was referring to your response to Genghis at 12:19 am, where you responded to the following:

4. The thicker and denser the atmosphere, the higher the near surface atmospheric temperature will be.

I don’t think so. The dry adiabatic lapse rate is g / Cp, where g is gravity and Cp is the specific heat of the atmosphere. The lapse rate does not vary with elevation, which means that Cp doesn’t vary with density, so I don’t see how a denser atmosphere would perforce be warmer.

I used the example of increasing density without increasing greenhouse gas content to show how that statement is incorrect. It is true the lapse rate does not change, but the altitude of outgoing radiation does, and that does change the near surface temperature some. I know you know that but the statement as made was wrong.

1DandyTroll
January 14, 2012 7:42 pm

[SNIP: bad humor w.]

Leonard Weinstein
January 14, 2012 7:42 pm

Willis,
The reply I just made above is not an exact quote of your words, so I understand the confusion. It is, however, equivalent in meaning.

Tim Folkerts
January 14, 2012 7:43 pm

Willis says January 14, 2012 at 7:22 pm: “so far, no one has shown that they understand either one. Including you and Jelbring and Nikolov, none of you has been willing to give a simple, clear explanation of the claimed theory.”
At the risk of being redundant, I did give an explanation of the “Jelbring effect” as a variation of the standard greenhouse effect, but it seems to have been lost in all the smoke. So, to quote myself from earlier:
———————————————–
STEP 1: Instead of a greenhouse gas like CO2 at the top of the atmosphere (TOA) that radiates at some IR wavelengths and is transparent at other IR wavelengths, use a greenhouse gas at the TOA that radiates at ALL IR wavelengths (ie is “black” to IR; ie emissivty = 1).
Or in his words “[The model planet globe] (G) and the atmosphere (AT) are surrounded by a concentric, tight, black spherical shell. “
STEP 2: Apply all the standard physics to the rest of the analysis.

evilincandescentbulb
January 14, 2012 7:47 pm

Elevator speech: You’re pretty quick on the snip-button … [SNIP: Yes, I am. I asked for elevator speeches about the theory of either N&Z or Jelbring. Yours is neither, so I snipped it. w.]

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