A mass exodus of business and jobs out of California will be the likely result of this madness. From the San Franscisco Chronicle:
…
Free and paid credits
Businesses that emit more carbon dioxide than is allowed under the law will have to use “allowances” – or credits – to make up for the difference. The allowances will be mostly free when the program starts in a little more than two months, but eventually businesses will have to purchase credits in an auction – a sort of penalty for exceeding the limit. The board’s major action on Thursday was to finalize how credits will be allocated.
The opposition from the industrial sectors, like glass manufacturers and oil refineries, strongly objected to the initial requirement that forces these businesses to pay for 10 percent of their credits. They said paying for the allowances – one previous idea was that they be free – will be crippling as businesses in other states and countries will have a competitive advantage.
Higher water rates
Multiple representatives of water agencies, mainly in Southern California, also told the board that because the regulation covers their energy usage, water rates would increase.
The cost will be about $2.50 per year per household, said air board spokesman Stanley Young, explaining that utilities are covered by the law because of the electricity used in moving water from Northern California to Southern California.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
“Businesses that emit more carbon dioxide than is allowed under the law will have to use “allowances” – or credits – to make up for the difference.”
No they won’t. They will close, and maybe relocate to Texas.
When I was in my late teens / early twenties I read “Ecotopia” and a couple years later “Ecotopia Emerging.” Now in the real world, it did not take a revolution or coup to bring on that vision. And unlike those books the whole of the state is involved. Naturally, sitting here nearly 30 years later, I realize my youthfully naive errors. What amazes me is that people who should know better appear to be even more naive than I was way back when.
Get out before its too late.
Wait too long and you will have to push your car Eastward to the free republic.
To Tom B at 9 am:
Yes, of course I remember Enron’s role in the CA electricity rip off. It wouldn’t have happened if there were enough power plants, but since there weren’t, many pigs fed at the trough designed by the CA legislature, Enron and Duke and many others. Enron took advantage of a situation they and many others saw.
PeterB in Indianapolis says:
October 21, 2011 at 9:21 am
As an American, I want NO PART WHATSOEVER in having to repay that debt. The Californicators did it to themselves, and logical, responsible Americans who had nothing to do with it should not be forced to bear their burdens.
I was born in California and lived there until age 55. Yes, there as much as anywhere else, there was always a lunatic fringe, in the form of Democratic, Republican, Green, Libertarian, and even, dare I say it, Independent candidates for every office; I never really knew any personally–average people never seemed much like the “personalities”.
I voted there, too, frustratedly, constrained by the 2-party system to pick the lesser of two evils for every state-wide position. I almost always vote for the Democratic candidate, because I am much more comfortable left of center on social issues; the extreme left are nutcases, of course, and dangerous, as we can see in the present case on cap and trade, but not all Democrats are nuts. On the other hand, I find that the Republicans usually get the environmental issues right, but many of their economic and social policies hurt people in ways that I cannot overlook just to get support on the environment. Equally frustratingly, right-leaning centrists are stuck in exactly the same quandary in picking the best candidates. In California, as everywhere in the US, “moderates need not apply” when it comes to elections, probably because they are far harder to buy off, and many voters (not “all voters”) seem to confuse high profile with importance.
It is not fair to blame “California voters,” as if they were a monolithic mob, for not having the power to reform the very seats of power, any more than it is fair to blame “American voters” for the same lack of power on the national level. Just look at the (possibly, I suppose, well intentioned) mess the American voters sent to Washington in 2010! Was that your fault? Vote for change if you will and if you can find candidates that can overturn the status quo and also aspire to govern rather than provide performance art for 6:00 tele-consumption.
John from CA says:
October 21, 2011 at 11:17 am
This coming change will complete the CA devastation, when the commerce gold no longer flows through the Golden State.
=========
You read my mind. Imagine an extension of the Rio Grande that links the Gulf to the Pacific. Imagine the cost saves from canal traffic that nearly eliminates illegal immigration and the benefit of desalination plants that “Green” the border areas and generation power at the same time.
Why does shipping need to use the Panama Canal when the trip could be much shorter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hmmm … turn the Rio Grande Dry Gravel bed with shallow stream (humorously called a River) Into a (minimum) 55′ deep x 250′ wide lake is an interesting idea, and a great civil works project. I can appreciate the added benefit of reduce the water crossings to zero unless swimming or walking on water. To be really two-way navigable, i would aim for 100′ deep and 500′ wide
For an idea of how little water there is, via Wikipedia: “Near Presidio [Texas] the river’s discharge is frequently zero. Its average discharge is 178 cubic feet per second”
Also, farming tends to suck the river pretty dry all the time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Grande
It would be shorter, but would it be faster? How many knots could a ship travel in a narrow lake versus full speed in Ocean and a shorter low speed section?
What path are you projecting? The Rio Grande goes up to New Mexico, would you keep it US only (New Mexico, Arizona, California) or would you cut across Mexico?
An idea of the size of the new large size ships New-Panamax class that would have to pass this way in order to be competitive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panamax
I live in California and witness it’s madness on a daily basis. California may never change until it is bitterly hoisted upon it’s own petard.
Still, I wonder if the driving of businesses out of California is intentional. I wonder if union lobbyists are prevailing upon politicians to drive all non-union businesses out of California so union businesses can end up with a monopoly. But I’m probably thinking too much.
Forget the Rio Grande. At present there’s a port on the west coast of Mexico just below the tip of Baja that is being upgraded to handle a big container fleet, and the railroad from that port to Texas is being upgraded with the involvement of a railroad from (I think) Kansas City. It should go online within a year or so.
The main intent is to bypass expensive longshore union labor (comfortably six-figure salaries). Next on the list to avoid, probably, are CA’s fees and regulations.
Murray: “NZ, UK, Australia, and now California. What other lemmings are there at the top of the cliff, just waiting to jump?”
Add South Africa. In the run up to Durban, the government is forging ahead relentlessly to (seemingly) follow a route similar to the Gillard nonsense. Could not bring myself to read the full reports in the local press over the last few days (no barf bag to hand), but got the gist of it. The same sickening references to “carbon pollution”, “carbon trading”, etc. Oh, and of course, don’t forget “TAX”…
From Gabriel, in Hout Bay, Cape Town… (Duh)
Say hypothetically CO2 emissions needed to be reduced substantially (let’s say by 50% at 2045). What policy or plan would be acceptable or best to do so? Can anyone think of a plan that would work and be acceptable to most all people?
Also, isn’t it a bit economically alarmist to claim that California is committing business suicide? Hasn’t the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) been around a while and not caused economic doom? Sure, it has had a bit of a rough history, with New Jersey dropping out, but not economic doom that I have heard of anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Greenhouse_Gas_Initiative
otter17: Also, isn’t it a bit economically alarmist to claim that California is committing business suicide?
Yes, it’s more like a self-inflicted wound than outright suicide, like cutting off one’s hand in a power saw. Per capita GDP and per capita accumulated wealth will continue to decline. We won’t all be dead right away, just poorer, and with less employment.
@ur momisugly Septic Matthews
How specifically do the draining effects you describe come about?
Do you know which experts have weighed in within the economic realm concerning this style of policy?
otter17:
at one time california had a steel mill that made more than 700 TONS of steel per hour. its gone, a victim of air quality regulations, the los angeles basin has no industry that requires painting its product (scaqmd regulated the painting industry into water based paints which do not stick worth a ^&*^ and so anything that has to be painted is now made somewhere else.)
business labors under an inventory tax that has caused a whole minor warehouse industry to spring up about three feet on the other side of the california/arizona/nevada state lines where the inventory actually resides (arizona and nevada do not have inventory taxs) and a number of trucking companies do quite well hauling the stuff overnight to the los angeles basin after recieving orders by internet.
at any one time there are several businesses located in reno and los vegas that do quite well facilitating companies moving from california to nevada for financial reasons.
the state of california, the counties, and cities tax everything in sight. every time they raise a new tax/fee the cash economy takes a large jump.
we have herds and herds of school children (at $10,000 per year each) whose families [on the books] do not earn enough to pay taxes yet the take the kids to school in ford expedition suv’s.
we have hundreds of thousands of weomen who stagger into emergency rooms in the last hours of labor who are not citizens and do not have health insurance, and several hours later we are blessed with a new CITIZEN, with about a dozen dependents.
we have counties that spend a MAJOR share of their budgets administrating to the needs of these folk yet their return in taxes, fees and liscences is only a tiny percentage of their costs.
and on , and on, and on.
and as we speak we see commissions, advisory commitees, self serving academia etc. etc.etc.busily in competition to find that fabled straw that breaks the camels back.
C
@ur momisugly pk
Those are all unfortunate things, but how specifically does the California cap and trade make things worse?
otter17,
C&T confiscates money from the productive sector and hands it out to those favored by the political class, and to government bureaucrats who produce nothing of economic value. That certainly makes things worse for the economy. To understand, read up on Bastiat’s Broken Window fallacy.
Smokey says:
October 22, 2011 at 1:47 pm
“C&T confiscates money from the productive sector and hands it out to those favored by the political class, and to government bureaucrats who produce nothing of economic value.”
I thought that the government was supposed to stay out of the whole trading of emissions thing. I thought that was the point back when McCain supported national cap and trade. Does the government get something off the top of the trading? I would hope not, or I agree with ya.
As I understand it, the cap and trade still allows coal plants and other CO2 sources to operate, just that there is a price associated with their emissions, thus taking into account the externalities of those emissions.
Let me know if I am wrong in the case of California’s system. I’ll have a look at the broken window fallacy.
Getting what they deserve?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/22/us-campaign-california-fraud-idUSTRE79L1S120111022
Heh, the Dems are claiming undue hardship and asking that the rules be waived in their favor. Amazing, isn’t it?
Of course all these Dems are perfectly honest, and after the rules get waived and contributors are allowed to give “replacement” donations, after the accounts are unfrozen and the original maxed-out contributions are recovered, OF COURSE the extra donations will be returned. Undoubtedly.
otter17 says:
October 22, 2011 at 1:36 pm
@ur momisugly pk
Those are all unfortunate things, but how specifically does the California cap and trade make things worse?
cap and trade requires a comany to purchase a liscence (however another company can sell the first an unused portion of their liscence ) it is an additional cost to do business.
during governor moonbeams first incarnation the standard oil company wanted to build a tanker berth in long beach harbor. it was to be on filled land about two miles from the natural shore and about midway between long beach harbor (at the time) and the seal beach fishing pier. the nimby’s, fliberty jibbits and other assorted socialists tried to study and spend the project into oblivion. finally one day standard oil said the hell with it and shut the whole mess down.
the finger pointing was a joy to behold.
what the nitwits did not realize until about a month later was that ARCO, another oil refining outfit did a deal with the long beach harbor commission and moved the spruce goose out of its 30yr plus storage hanger and used that berth to build a much larger tanker berth. they end ran around the major bone of contention (air pollution) by buying up the McMillian Ring Free Oil Company (it was a smoky little place that accepted about 30,000 gallons of oil per day on the railroad) and applying its polution credits to their tanker berth. standard oil or their heirs get their oil delivered to the arco berth to this day as a part of the deal.
one other thing. long beach harbor has filled in the area that was supposed to be used for the tanker berth and it is now a huge container terminal.
C
They had children, and tried to make sure their kids didn’t have to suffer through all of the challenges and problems they did — not realizing that those were the very things that made them strong and smart. Result: the children were/are weak and stupid.
another little dirty secret in california:
the polution regulators (like CARB and SCAQMD) come around and inspect your premisis or place of business. and if you don’t pass muster then they cite you. of course you have to be reinspected several times to make sure that you are “in compliance”. quite often these reinspections result in more citations.
this can snowball.
of course you have to pay them all of the fees, fines and assorted ripoffs. (thats where they get their money, it doesn’t go to the state general fund).
thats why they’re so rabid.
C
This article/song immediately comes to mind…
Whitewashed Windows and Vacant Stores
http://rismedia.com/2010-01-25/whitewashed-windows-and-vacant-stores/
It is a very astute analysis of what has gone wrong. However since the ultimate agenda is to cripple Western Civilization and thereby make “Global Governance” attractive, do not expect our politicians and leaders to actually do anything to make matters better.
Pascal Lamy, Director of the World Trade Organization has made it very plain that “Global Governance” is the ultimate goal. “…The good news is that many of these issues are already being examined and we need not wait for a big bang in global governance. The economic crisis we are experiencing has accelerated the transformation of global governance toward a new architecture characterized by what I call a “triangle of coherence.”
The first side of this triangle is the G20, which replaces the old G8 and which provides political leadership and policy guidance. The second side of the triangle includes the intergovernmental organizations and their affiliated NGOs, providing expertise in terms of rules, policies, programs, or reports. The third side of the triangle is made up of the G192, the United Nations, providing a comprehensive framework of legitimacy that allows those responsible to answer for their actions…..” http://www.theglobaljournal.net/article/view/56/
THE GLOBAL JOURNAL: The Project
“From diversity to education, from climate change to sustainable energy, from arms control to microfinance, from world governance to humanitarian affairs, THE GLOBAL JOURNAL is the most current medium featuring innovative and influential ideas and players in the world of Global Issues. With its mix of in-depth reports, stunning photography, and incisive authoritative voices, THE GLOBAL JOURNAL is the first medium fully dedicated to a fast-growing international community of decision makers….” http://www.theglobaljournal.net/the-project/
It isn’t a “Conspiracy Theory” any more. There it is in black and white and California with its emphasis on Climate Change and the University of California at Santa Cruz eyebrows deep in promoting “Sustainability” (the UN’s Agenda 21) will be leading the way straight back to the middle ages and serfdom. Lord help us all.
Does Mary Nichols not know that acetone is an environmental atmospheric pollutant; so why is she cruddying up our air, with her phony purple finger nails.
I think there is someone on the CARB board, who actually is a qualified nurse. If so, that the sum total of the scientific expertise on that unelected board of unqualified political appointees.
Not only businesses and jobs will be leaving the state; so will a lot of potentially productive workers. I for one, will in the near future be looking for a more sane environmental community than California is doomed to try and live with.
Like all the hollyweird buttinski “acting persons”, I can do what I do from any place on the planet; so I don’t have to put up with California taxation and regulation; just as those green looney hollywooders don’t.
It’s like watching a train wreck coming in slow motion. I live in California and I can’t believe how STUPID these people in Sacramento are. BUT even dumber than those people, are the mindless drones that vote these BOZOs into office again and again.
As for Australia having a Carbon Tax…..people must remember that this is being forced on them.
The PM Ms Gillard said at the last election ” There will be no Carbon Tax under a Gov’t I lead ”
this to me is a prime example of what has been happening in the debate about Climate Change, if you disagree, your called all sorts of names and now Politicians lie to remain in Gov’t …….The PM of Australia clearly lied to get elected as this TAX on everything is not very popular at all…..and would have seen her labor Gov’t tossed out of Government.