Essay by Eric Worrall
h/t J Boles; … the five electric buses were “operating well” until November 2025 when the batteries “were recalled for fire hazard. …
Out Cold: Vermont’s electric-powered buses prove unreliable for transportation this winter
“Taxpayers were sold an $8 million ‘solution’ that can’t operate in cold weather when the home for these buses is in New England,” spokesman for energy workers group says.
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“Canceling the federal grant for electric bus purchases would result in us losing the grant funds,” Clark said. “It would not give us an opportunity to use the funds differently.”
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Clark also explained that the five electric buses were “operating well” until November 2025 when the batteries “were recalled for fire hazard.”
The recall prompted a software update from New Flyer to “decrease the likelihood for fire” that “included only allowing the bus to charge to 75% and to not allow charging when the battery is below 41 degrees,” Clark explained.
“Previously we could charge in any temperature to 100%,” Clark said.
As GMT’s bus garage “does not have suitable fire mitigation equipment to store or charge an electric bus indoors at this time,” the transportation system is unable to use its electric buses when temperatures hit below 41.
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Senator Bernie Sanders’ media relations has not yet responded to The Center Square’s two requests for comment.
Read more: https://justthenews.com/nation/states/center-square/vermont-ev-buses-prove-unreliable-transportation-winter
Who could have guessed electric vehicles can catch fire if you try to charge them in temperatures below 41F? I mean, its not like there were any other clues that batteries suffer problems in the cold.
And the question must be asked – if charging batteries at temperatures colder than 41F is a fire hazard, how can running EV busses in winter conditions be safe? Do all EVs face an enhanced risk of catching fire in Winter?
Over in New York, parents have accused bus operators of trying to stretch the range of electric vehicles by turning off the heaters, leaving school kids shivering in hard frost temperatures.
But in harsh Vermont winters they can’t even charge the busses.
Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont is a major proponent of green busses, he helped make this disaster happen.
Bernie’s ‘Green New Deal’: What’s In It For Transit?
By Angie Schmitt
5:17 PM GMT-4 on August 22, 2019Senator Bernie Sanders today released his plan for decarbonizing the American transportation system, calling for a big boost in transit spending, a network of high-speed rail, and a phasing out of internal-combustion engines.
The proposal, which he calls the Green New Deal, calls for moving toward 100 percent renewable energy for transportation by 2030 and complete decarbonization by 2050. The total price tag, the campaign estimates, is $16 trillion. The transition would create 20 million jobs, effectively ending unemployment, Sanders claims. Some are calling it the boldest plan by any Democrat seeking the presidency, and it is the first proposal from major contender that addresses transit.
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Read more: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/08/22/bernie-sanderss-green-new-deal-not-so-green-and-not-so-new
There is an opportunity for Bernie to make this right.
Green Mountain Transit needs at least $4 million to fix this mess, by buying reliable fossil fuel powered vehicles. Bernie Sanders net worth is estimated at $2.5 million, not as much as investment geniuses like Nancy Pelosi, but more than enough money to help the people fix a public transport disaster which Sander’s advocacy helped to create.
How about it Sanders? Will you step up and use your means to provide to others according to their needs? If you say kick in a million of your own money, and use your political profile to raise the rest of the cash, the people of Vermont will once again have reliable public transport. I’m sure President Trump would be receptive to a phone call from Sanders to help raise money to roll back the EV revolution.
Will Mamdani order the same model from the same vendor? Probably. Until the credit card maxes out.
Seriously.. WTH makes you think a maxed out credit card will stop a rabid socialist from spending. !
The credit card company will eventually say no.
Bernie was just trying to turn the Green Mountain state green. How was he supposed to know battery electric buses can’t be used in winter?
Or that New Flyer is now switching to fuel cell electric buses because of its winter battery problems?
Little known fact about commercial, water based (i.e., H2-O2) fuel cell systems for transportation vehicles: they typically have a round-trip efficiency (from electricity to hydrogen and back to electricity) between 30% and 50%. While the fuel cell stack itself is 40–60% efficient, energy losses during hydrogen production (electrolysis) and compression significantly lower the overall, or round-trip, efficiency compared to battery electric vehicles that have a typical round-trip efficiency (in warm weather) of approx. 80–90%.
Besides this, here is what Google’s AI bot says about commercial vehicle fuel cells being able to operate in cold temperatures:
“Modern commercial vehicle fuel cells, particularly Proton Exchange Membrane (PEM) fuel cells, can operate in ambient temperatures as low as -30°C to -40°C (-22 °F to -40 °F) . While they can operate at these extreme cold temperatures, they typically require a ‘cold weather kit’ for startup . . . While they can operate, efficiency can be affected, with one study indicating increased hydrogen consumption in sub-zero, specifically -6°C (+21 °F) , conditions.”
Of course, I’m sure the Vermont country-side is dotted with fueling stations that can supply the high pressure gaseous hydrogen to refuel the hydrogen storage tank in each bus daily. /sarc.
Then too, I can’t imagine any problems whatsoever with average bus drivers or school vehicle maintenance-yard personnel being trained to safely handle high pressure hydrogen, with its propensity to leak combined with its great range of flammability limits. /sarc^2
Finally, if the above factors weren’t enough, precautions (such as incorporating an active, battery-powered thermal management system or housing the vehicle in a heated garage) must be taken to prevent water within the fuel cells from freezing when it’s not operating and there are sub-freezing ambient temperatures.
But what the heck, Vermont taxpayers, go ahead and drop another $8–20 or so million in “promising” fuel cell-powered school buses to see if that might work out better than EV buses have so far (hint: don’t hold your breath).
I live in Vermont, the US most socialist tax monstrosity
Vermont spent at least $8 million on busses and charging stations and heated garages.
Vermont spent at least $15 million of state and federal taxpayer money for bureaucrats and “bribing stakeholders”, such as the BURN-a-whole-in-my-pocket Bernie, who parks all his “winnings” in a tax-free foundation that finances the luxury lifestyles of his wife and son, and owns some political houses on the lake shore, and an $80,000 Audi for touring around in DC, plus an old jalopy for touring around in Vermont.
While private jetting around the US, Bernie makes faces, waves his arms, sucks up to Communist/Socialist Mamdani and AOC, the young kids freeze their asses off, because there is no heat in the busses, because heating the uninsulated busses takes more electricity than driving them!!!
GO WOKE, GO BROKE
Vermont months when the average low °F will not be EV-Bus friendly:
Jan ~13°, Feb ~14°, Mar ~24°, April ~36°, – -, Oct ~42°, Nov ~32°, Dec ~21°
So the busses could only be recharged in May and September? They are little used in July and August as school is out. Such a deal! This sounds like a circumstance where the bus manufacturer and dealer could be sued for fraud since the busses cannot be used for most of the school year. Perhaps the school can get the needed $$$ that way.
“Transit Busses” not school.
“ask” says …
School BusThe average cost of a new 40-passenger school bus typically falls within the $105,000 to $150,000 range, depending on type, features, and fuel source. A 40-passenger capacity aligns most closely with a Type C school bus, which is the standard “conventional” yellow school bus with a front-mounted engine and hood.
District wasted a LOT of money.
The Biden clique made it all possible for Vermont, etc., to buy CANADIAN ELECTRIC BUSSES
So electric school busses would be limited to May, June and September … and Summer School
The Hindenburg was operating well in its transatlantic flight schedule until it didn’t.
Brilliant idea….hydrogen busses!
….for the children as Dems would say.
Flywheel busses will all kids pedaling
Keep the stored buses and recall Bernie instead.
silly question- Socialist only spend OPM
Bernie spent over a half million of OPM on private jet flights in order to bitch against the oligarchy with AOC.
Unrelated to energy.
Today it was revealed that a member of the Swedish ski team is a young lady who self identifies as a man. She also declares that anyone who doesn’t agree with a persons self identification is a hateful bigot.
BTW, this young lady competes for the women’s ski team, not the men’s.
“She also declares that anyone who doesn’t agree with a persons self identification is a hateful bigot.”
I agree, for years, I’ve self-identified as a wardrobe.!
But now the Doctor told me I’ve got woodworm … should I come out of the closet ??? (:-))
OUCH!!! That humor is very seriously bad…as I wipe up my spilled beer.
“She also declares that anyone who doesn’t agree with a persons self identification is a hateful bigot.”
I’m a teep-hot.
My preferred pronouns are “short” and “stout”.
[ … twitch … ]
Why the focus on “commie” Bernie Sanders? In total 655 buses are part of the recall. The law of averages would suggest some of these are operating in red states. Maybe they should’ve bought Chinese. They’ve been doing it for longer – therefore more advanced and more robust tech. Product recall details are here: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2025/RCLRPT-25V631-2095.pdf
For example – well over 1000 electric buses entered service in the UK in 2024 and it often gets below 41F here. Not many problems….
Maybe the UK busses haven’t blown up yet.
Blown up? No, but there are plenty of photographs of buses burning.
Some have gone up in smoke.
Third electric London bus catches fire in the space of two weeks – as operator launches probe and starts urgent check of 380 similar vehicles in its fleethttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13005001/london-bus-fire-panic-capital-flames.html
It’s most odd – I lived in London for many years and I never heard of any bus fires until the introduction of battery-electric buses.
Diesel bus fires happen all the time – not necessarily started by the engine E.g. overheating brakes etc. but sometimes this is the case and sometimes made worse because of large amounts of flammable fuel in the vicinity. They’re just not newsworthy. Anti decarbonisation news outlets and FF advocates think that electric (insert type of vehicle here) fires are newsworthy. Mainly because people like those who read WUWT and believe it is an accurate version of the truth will get into a froth about such news stories. Here’s the total number of electric bus fires in London over a four year period. Average – 1 a year. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3709-2324
Key States and Regions with High Adoption of electric school busses:
California: Leads with over 3,100 committed buses.New York: Second highest, with over 700 committed buses.Midwest: Notably Illinois (600+, Chicago) and Michigan (Detroit).Other Leaders: Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Colorado, and Washington.That’s over 4,400 electric school busses, none in Red areas. I’m going to suggest the law of averages does not apply to politicized government policies.
“…how can running EV busses in winter conditions be safe?” And EV cars in cold weather? Should they not be similarly restricted from complete charging when temperatures are below 41F? Only EV owners with heated garages could drive their cars?
Maybe Bernie’s people can flog them to Florida? Oh wait…
Historic cold breaks multiple February records across Florida
So, Bernie’s “green” transit busses are turning out to be white elephants. Can Bernie say “schadenfreude”?
I knew he could.
I have trouble seeing that government can do anything right. What a bunch of knuckleheads.
They never consult with engineers, they think they have all the bright ideas and then the little people should work out the details. I thought ol’ Bernie had lots more than 2.5 million $?
Engineers designed the busses.
Bernie is an octogenarian now, isn’t he? Why doesn’t he just retire already? Jeesh.
Trump is approaching 80 as well, but I don’t think he has been in politics anywhere near as long as Bernie.
Trump still isn’t “in” politics. That’s why he’s getting things done.
None of the above is any surprise because it has occurred before. In Quebec electric school buses proved so unreliable that they were largely withdrawn from service and replaced with nothing less than the old-fashioned gas or diesel types which had proved their dependability for decades before. But since that province is quick to jump on whatever environmental bandwagon is fashionable, it was a guarantee it had to learn the hard way just as governments that are trying to promote or mandate EVs are learning that residents of colder areas of North America don’t want them because they don’t trust them in between December and March. So once again we see an example of the theorists believing they know what’s best for consumers except the latter have learned long ago to look askance at these theories from the outset.
Yeah . . . as asked in the above article: How about it Sanders?
But are you now going to claim this EV school bus fiasco resulted because “the rich don’t pay their fair share”?
You see, Bernie, if you had just the equivalent of a real high school education in basic science and mathematics—or at least a rudimentary ability to use the Web—you might have realized long ago that the Green New Deal is just a schist-brown raw deal.
But for you, I fear it’s hopeless.
The left never puts their own money where there mouths are.
The State of Vermont has a total population of less than 650,000 and it will cost $16T (TRILLION???)
to decarbonize? San Francisco had over 700,000 people and it’s only a city. $16T for a state of 650,000 is $24,615,385 per person. According to the world population clock the US current population is 342,332,392, at $24,615,385 per person for the US to decarbonize will cost 8,421,376,892,000,000 ($8.5 Quadrillion)
Either decarbonization is PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE or Uncle Bernie’s state is padding the projected bill…or BOTH!
Then he estimates the initiative will create 20M jobs. Wow truly amazing for a state of only 650,000. It would take 20M jobs just in one state to support 650,000 people. The ultimate PORK.
And just what happens to those 20M jobs AFTER 2050? Will Vermont, A state of 650,000 have 20M unemployed??
It will all run on battery vehicles and charge stations-
Australia built a 9,000-mile highway – it loops the entire country | Watch
Trust them they’re from the Gummint and they’re here to help.
The scariest words in the English language.?
Not very safe in Electric busses in the UK
Electric bus fire UK 2025
The UK has seen several electric bus fires in 2025, prompting safety concerns and investigations. Here are some key points regarding electric bus fires in the UK:
Putney Bus Garage Incident: A fire involving an electric bus at Putney Bus Garage was caused by thermal runaway within the battery pack, leading to the temporary withdrawal of several vehicles for investigation.
Alexander Dennis Enviro200 and Enviro400 Recall: Nearly 2,000 electric buses have been recalled due to fears they can catch fire if left unattended, with the fault possibly in the air conditioning and heating system.
London Fire Brigade Concerns: The London Fire Brigade has expressed concerns about the potential risks posed by electric bus fires, recommending comprehensive fire strategies for developments involving EV buses.
TfL Investigation: Transport for London (TfL) is investigating the fire at Wimbledon, taking precautionary measures to ensure the safety of its electric bus fleet.
“Canceling the federal grant for electric bus purchases would result in us losing the grant funds,” Clark said. “It would not give us an opportunity to use the funds differently.”
He must mean specific grants should be untied from specific purposes. Wouldn’t that in itself be illegal?
Maybe some enterprising Vermonters can open a federally-funded day care center for electric buses and rake in millions of dollars during cold weather.
It sounds like the California Gas Taxes “for road repair costs” that are actually deposited in the “General Fund” and can thereby be used for virtually anything the state wants.
California is studying a proposed per mile annual road usage tax. Assembly Bill 1421 seeks to evaluate this proposed tax, as increasing adoption of electric vehicles reduces the revenue received from fuel taxes.
Bernie Sanders is himself a giant fraud that has been running for years. The only thing that matters to Bernie is Bernie and his doctrine.
When these electric vehicles ignite, one can hardly call it a fire. With future weather likely to get colder during the winter months, these electric vehicles will spend most of their time being pampered under cover like museum pieces.
Burnie is living up to his name.