This essay from Willis appeared on WUWT overnight Saturday while I slept. After reading it this morning, I decided to make it a sticky at the top of WUWT (I also added the open letter reference) because it says everything that needs to be said about the current state of affairs in climate science and the skeptic position. I ask readers not only to read it, but to disseminate it widely at other websites and forums. Hopefully, the right people will read this. Thanks for your consideration, and thank you, Willis.
UPDATE: I’ve made this essay available as a PDF here: Willis_Trenberth_WUWT_Essay suitable for printing and emailing. – Anthony
UPDATE2: Trenberth reacts: edits speech to fix copying, leaves “deniers”
Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I would like to take as my text the following quote from the recent paper (PDF, 270k also on web here) by Dr. Kevin Trenberth:
Given that global warming is “unequivocal”, to quote the 2007 IPCC report, the null hypothesis should now be reversed, thereby placing the burden of proof on showing that there is no human influence [on the climate].
Figure 1. The game of Monopoly’s “Community Chest” card that was randomly drawn by Dr. Kevin Trenberth. Some guys are just lucky, I guess.
The “null hypothesis” in science is the condition that would result if what you are trying to establish is not true. For example, if your hypothesis is that air pressure affects plant growth rates, the null hypothesis is that air pressure has no effect on plant growth rates. Once you have both hypotheses, then you can see which hypothesis is supported by the evidence.
In climate science, the AGW hypothesis states that human GHG emissions significantly affect the climate. As such, the null hypothesis is that human GHG emissions do not significantly affect the climate, that the climate variations are the result of natural processes. This null hypothesis is what Doctor T wants to reverse.
As Steve McIntyre has often commented, with these folks you really have to keep your eye on the pea under the walnut shell. These folks seem to have sub-specialties in the “three-card monte” sub-species of science. Did you notice when the pea went from under one walnut shell to another in Dr. T’s quotation above? Take another look at it.
The first part of Dr. T’s statement is true. There is general scientific agreement that the globe has been warming, in fits and starts of course, for the last three centuries or so. And since it has been thusly warming for centuries, the obvious null hypothesis would have to be that the half-degree of warming we experienced in the 20th century was a continuation of some long-term ongoing natural trend.
But that’s not what Dr. Trenberth is doing here. Keep your eye on the pea. He has smoothly segued from the IPCC saying “global warming is ‘unequivocal'”, which is true, and stitched that idea so cleverly onto another idea, ‘and thus humans affect the climate’, that you can’t even see the seam.
The pea is already under the other walnut shell. He is implying that the IPCC says that scientists have “unequivocally” shown that humans are the cause of weather ills, and if I don’t take that as an article of faith, it’s my job to prove that we are not the cause of floods in Brisbane.
Now, lest you think that the IPCC actually did mean that ‘humans are the cause’ when they said (in his words) that ‘global warming was “unequivocal”‘, here’s their full statement from the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report Summary For Policymakers (2007) (PDF, 3.7 MB):
Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global mean sea level (see Figure SPM-3).
Despite the vagueness of a lack of a timeframe, that is generally true, but it says nothing about humans being the cause. So he is totally misrepresenting the IPCC findings (which he helped write, remember, so it’s not a misunderstanding) to advance his argument. The IPCC said nothing like what he is implying.
Gotta love the style, though, simply proclaiming by imperial fiat that his side is the winner in one of the longest-running modern scientific debates. And his only proffered “evidence” for this claim? It is the unequivocal fact that Phil Jones and Michael Mann and Caspar Amman and Gene Wahl and the other good old boys of the IPCC all agree with him. That is to say, Dr. T’s justification for reversing the null hypothesis is that the IPCC report that Dr. T helped write agrees with Dr. T. That’s recursive enough to make Ouroboros weep in envy …
And the IPCC not only says it’s true, it’s “unequivocal”. Just plain truth wouldn’t be scientific enough for those guys, I guess. Instead, it is “unequivocal” truth. Here’s what “unequivocal” means (emphasis mine):
unequivocal: adjective: admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; having only one meaning or interpretation and leading to only one conclusion (“Unequivocal evidence”)
Notice how well crafted Dr. T’s sentence is. After bringing in “global warming”, he introduces the word “unequivocal”, meaning we can only draw one conclusion. Then in the second half of the sentence, he falsely attaches that “unequivocal” certainty of conclusion to his own curious conclusion, that the normal rules of science should be reversed for the benefit of … … well, not to put too fine a point on it, he’s claiming that normal scientific rules should be reversed for the benefit of Dr. Kevin Trenberth and the IPCC and those he supports. Probably just a coincidence, though.
For Dr. Trenberth to call for the usual null hypothesis (which is that what we observe in nature is, you know, natural) to be reversed, citing as his evidence the IPCC statement that the earth is actually warming, is nonsense. However, it is not meaningless nonsense. It is pernicious, insidious, and dangerous nonsense. He wants us to spend billions of dollars based on this level of thinking, and he has cleverly conflated two ideas to push his agenda.
I understand that Dr. T has a scientific hypothesis. This hypothesis, generally called the “AGW hypothesis”, is that if greenhouse gases (GHGs) go up, the temperature must follow, and nothing else matters. The hypothesis is that the GHGs are the master thermostat for the globe, everything else just averages out in the long run, nothing could possibly affect the long-term climate but GHGs, nothing to see here, folks, move along. No other forcings, feedbacks, or hypotheses need apply. GHGs rule, OK?
Which is an interesting hypothesis, but it is woefully short of either theoretical or observational support. In part, of course, this is because the AGW hypothesis provides almost nothing in the way of a statement or a prediction which can be falsified. This difficulty in falsification of the hypothesis, while perhaps attractive to the proponents of the hypothesis, inevitably implies a corresponding difficulty in verification or support of the hypothesis.
In addition, a number of arguably cogent and certainly feasible scientific objections have been raised against various parts of the hypothesis, from the nature and sign of the forcings considered and unconsidered, to the existence of natural thermostatic mechanisms.
Finally, to that we have to add the general failure of what few predictions have come from the teraflops of model churning in support of the AGW hypothesis. We haven’t seen any acceleration in sea level rise. We haven’t seen any climate refugees. The climate model Pinatubo prediction was way off the mark. The number and power of hurricanes hasn’t increased as predicted. And you remember the coral atolls and Bangladesh that you and the IPCC warned us about, Dr. T, the ones that were going to get washed away by the oncoming Thermageddon? Bangladesh and the atoll islands are both getting bigger, not smaller. We were promised a warming of two, maybe even three tenths of a degree per decade this century if we didn’t mend our evil carbon-loving ways, and so far we haven’t mended one thing, and we have seen … well … zero tenths of a degree for the first decade.
So to date, the evidentiary scorecard looks real bad for the AGW hypothesis. Might change tomorrow, I’m not saying the game’s over, that’s AGW nonsense that I’ll leave to Dr. T. I’m just saying that after a quarter century of having unlimited funding and teraflops of computer horsepower and hundreds of thousands of hours of grad students’ and scientists’ time and the full-throated support of the media and university departments dedicated to establishing the hypothesis, AGW supporters have not yet come up with much observational evidence to show for the time and money invested. Which should give you a clue as to why Dr. T is focused on the rules of the game. As the hoary lawyer’s axiom has it, if you can’t argue facts argue the law [the rules of the game], and if you can’t argue the law pound the table and loudly proclaim your innocence …
So now, taking both tacks at once in his paper, Dr. T. is both re-asserting his innocence and proposing that we re-write the rules of the whole game … I find myself cracking up laughing over my keyboard at the raw nerve of the man. If he and his ideas weren’t so dangerous, it would be truly funny.
Look, I’m sorry to be the one to break the bad news to you, Dr. T, but you can’t change the rules of scientific inquiry this late in the game. Here are the 2011 rules, which curiously are just like the 1811 rules.
First, you have to show that some aspect of the climate is historically anomalous or unusual. As far as I know, no one has done that, including you. So the game is in serious danger before it is even begun. If you can’t show me where the climate has gone off its natural rails, if you can’t point to where the climate is acting unusually or anomalously, then what good are your explanations as to why it supposedly went off the rails at some mystery location you can’t identify?
(And of course, this is exactly what Dr. T would gain by changing the rules, and may relate to his desire to change them. With so few examples to give to support his position, after a quarter century of searching for such evidence, it would certainly be tempting to try to change the rules … but I digress.)
But perhaps, Dr. T., perhaps you have found some such climate anomaly which cannot be explained as natural variation and you just haven’t made it public yet.
If you have evidence that the climate is acting anomalously, then Second, you have to show that the anomaly can be explained by human actions. And no, Dr. T., you can’t just wave your hands and say something like “Willis, the IPCC sez you have to prove that what generations of people called ‘natural’, actually is natural”. There’s an arcane technical scientific name for that, too. It’s called “cheating”, Dr. T., and is frowned on in the better circles of scientific inquiry …
(N.B. – pulling variables out of a tuned computer model and then proudly announcing that the model doesn’t work without the missing variables doesn’t mean you have established that humans affect the climate. It simply means that you tuned your computer model to reproduce the historical record using all the variables, and as an inevitable result, when using only part of those variables your model doesn’t do as well at reproducing the historical record. No points for that claim.)
Third, you have to defend your work, and not just from the softball questions of your specially selected peer reviewers who “know what to say” to get you published in scientific journals. In 2011, curiously, we’ve gone back to the customs of the 1800s, the public marketplace of ideas — except this time it’s an electronic marketplace of ideas, rather than people speaking from the dais and in the halls of the Royal Society in London. If you won’t stand up and publicly defend your work, it’s simple – you won’t be believed. And not just by me. Other scientists are watching, and considering, and evaluating.
This doesn’t mean you have to reply to every idiot with a half-baked objection and a tin-foil hat. It does mean that if you refuse to answer serious scientific questions, people will take note of that refusal. You must have noticed how such refusal to answer scientific questions totally destroyed the scientific credibility of the website RealClimate. Well, they’re your friends, so perhaps you didn’t notice, but if not, you should notice, here’s an example. (PDF, 147K) Running from serious scientific questions, as they make a practice of doing at RealClimate, makes you look weak whether you are or not.
And Always, you have to show your work. You have to archive your data. You have to reveal your computer algorithms. You have to expose everything that supports and sustains your claims to the brutal light of public inquiry, warts and all.
Dr. T., I fear you’ll have to get used to the sea change, this is not your father’s climate science. The bottom line is we’re no longer willing to trust you. You could publish in the Akashic Records and I wouldn’t believe what you said until I checked the figures myself. I’m sorry to say it, but by the actions of you and your colleagues, you have forfeited the public’s trust. You blew your credibility, Dr. T, and you have not yet rebuilt it.
And further actions like your current attempt to re-write the rules of science aren’t helping at all. Nor is trying to convince us that you look good with a coat of the finest English whitewash from the “investigations” into Climategate. Didn’t you guys notice the lesson of Watergate, that the coverup is more damaging than the original malfeasance?
Dr. T, you had a good run, you were feted and honored, but the day of reckoning up the cost has come and gone. Like some book said, you and the other un-indicted co-conspirators have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting. At this point, you have two choices — accept it and move on, or bitch about it. I strongly advise the former, but so far all I see is the latter.
You want to regain the trust of the public, for yourself and for climate science? It won’t be easy, but it can be done. Here’s my shortlist of recommendations for you and other mainstream climate scientists:
• Stop trying to sell the idea that the science is settled. Climate science is a new science, we don’t even have agreement on whether clouds warm or cool the planet, we don’t know if there are thermostatic interactions that tend to maintain some temperature in preference to others. Or as you wrote to Tom Wigley, Dr. T,
How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!
SOURCE: email 1255550975
Curious. You state strongly to your friend that we’re not close to knowing where the energy is going or to balancing the energy budget, yet you say in public that we know enough to take the most extraordinary step of reversing the null hypothesis … how does that work again?
At this point, there’s not much about climate science that is “unequivocal” except that the climate is always changing.
• Don’t try to change the rules of the game in mid-stream. It makes you look desperate, whether you are or not.
• Stop calling people “deniers”, my goodness, after multiple requests that’s just common courtesy and decency, where are your manners? It makes you look surly and uncivilized, whether you are or not.
• Stop avoiding public discussion and debate of your work. You are asking us to spend billions of dollars based on your conclusions. If you won’t bother to defend those conclusions, don’t bother us with them. Refusing to publicly defend your billion dollar claims make it look like you can’t defend them, whether you can or not.
• Stop secretly moving the pea under the walnut shells. You obviously think we are blind, you also clearly believe we wouldn’t remember that you said we have a poor understanding of the climate system. Disabuse yourself of the idea that you are dealing with fools or idiots, and do it immediately. As I have found to my cost, exposing my scientific claims to the cruel basilisk gaze of the internet is like playing chess with Deep Blue … individual processors have different abilities, but overall any faults in my ideas will certainly be exposed. Too many people looking at my ideas from too many sides for much to slip through. Trying anything but absolute honesty on the collective memory and wisdom of the internet makes you look like both a fool and con man, whether you are one or not.
• Write scientific papers that don’t center around words like “possibly” or “conceivably” or “might”. Yes, possibly all of the water molecules in my glass of water might be heading upwards at the same instant, and I could conceivably win the Mega-Ball lottery, and I might still play third base for the New York Yankees, but that is idle speculation that has no place in scientific inquiry. Give us facts, give us uncertainties, but spare us the stuff like “This raises the possibility that by 2050, this could lead to the total dissolution of all inter-atomic bonds …”. Yeah, I suppose it could. So what, should I buy a lottery ticket?
• Stop lauding the pathetic purveyors of failed prophecies. Perhaps you climate guys haven’t noticed, but Paul Ehrlich was not a visionary genius. He was a failure whose only exceptional talent is the making of apocalyptic forecasts that didn’t come true. In any business he would not have lasted one minute past the cratering collapse of his first ridiculous forecast of widespread food riots and worldwide deaths from global famine in the 1980s … but in academia, despite repeating his initial “We’re all gonna crash and burn, end of the world coming up soon, you betcha” prognostication method several more times with no corresponding crashing burning or ending, he’s still a professor at Stanford. Now that’s understandable under tenure rules, you can’t fire him for being a serially unsuccessful doomcaster. But he also appears to be one of your senior AGW thinkers and public representatives, which is totally incomprehensible to me.
His string of predicted global catastrophes that never came anywhere near true was only matched by the inimitable collapses of the prophecies of his wife Anne, and of his cohorts John Holdren and the late Stephen Schneider. I fear we’ll never see their like again, a fearsome foursome who between them never made one single prediction that actually came to pass. Stop using them as your spokesmodels, it doesn’t increase confidence in your claims.
• Enough with the scary scenarios, already. You’ve done the Chicken Little thing to death, give it a rest, it is sooo last century. It makes you look both out-of-date and hysterical whether you are or not.
• Speak out against scientific malfeasance whenever and wherever you see it. This is critical to the restoration of trust. I’m sick of watching climate scientists doing backflips to avoid saying to Lonnie Thompson “Hey, idiot, archive all of your data, you’re ruining all of our reputations!”. The overwhelming silence of mainstream AGW scientists on these matters is one of the (unfortunately numerous) reasons that the public doesn’t trust climate scientists, and justifiably so. You absolutely must clean up your own house to restore public trust, no one else can do it. Speak up. We can’t hear you.
• Stop re-asserting the innocence of you and your friends. It makes you all look guilty, whether you are or not … and since the CRU emails unequivocally favor the “guilty” possibility, it makes you look unapologetic as well as guilty. Whether you are or not.
• STOP HIDING THINGS!!! Give your most private data and your most top-secret computer codes directly to your worst enemies and see if they can poke holes in your ideas. If they can’t, then you’re home free. That is true science, not hiding your data and gaming the IPCC rules to your advantage.
• Admit the true uncertainties. The mis-treatment of uncertainty in the IPCC reports, and the underestimation of true uncertainty in climate science in general, is a scandal.
• Scrap the IPCC. It has run its race. Do you truly think that whatever comes out of the next IPCC report will make the slightest difference to the debate? You’ve had four IPCC reports in a row, each one more alarmist than the previous one. You’ve had every environmental organization shilling for you. You’ve had billions of dollars in support, Al Gore alone spent $300 million on advertising and advocacy. You’ve had 25 years to make your case, with huge resources and supercomputers and entire governments on your side, and you are still losing the public debate … after all of that, do you really think another IPCC report will change anything?
If it is another politically driven error-fest like the last one, I don’t think so. And what are the odds of it being an honest assessment of the science? Either way the next IPCC report won’t settle a single discussion, even if it is honest science. Again, Dr. T, you have only yourself and your friends to blame. You used the IPCC to flog bad science like the Hokeyschtick, your friends abused the IPCC to sneak in papers y’all favored and keep out papers you didn’t like, you didn’t check your references so stupid errors were proclaimed as gospel truth, it’s all a matter of record.
Do you truly think that after Climategate, and after the revelations of things like IPCC citations of WWF propaganda pieces as if they were solid science, and after Pachauri’s ludicrous claim that it was “voodoo science” to point out the Himalayan glacier errors, after all that do you think anyone with half a brain still believes the IPCC is some neutral arbiter of climate science whose ex-cathedra pronouncements can be relied upon?
Because if you do think people still believe that, you really should get out more. At this point people don’t trust the IPCC any more than they trust you and your friends. Another IPCC report will be roundly ignored by one side, and cited as inerrant gospel by the other side. How will that help anyone? Forget about the IPCC, it is a meaningless distraction, and get back to the science.
That’s my free advice, Dr. T., and I’m sure it’s worth every penny you paid for it. Look, I don’t think you’re a bad guy. Sadly for you, but fortunately for us, you got caught hanging out with the bad boys who had their hands in the cookie jar. And tragically for everyone, all of you were seduced by “noble cause corruption”. Hey, it’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s happened to me too, you’re not the first guy to think that the nobility of your cause justified improper actions.
But as far as subsequently proclaiming your innocence and saying that you and your friends did nothing wrong? Sorry, Dr. T, the jury has already come in on that one, and they weren’t distracted by either the nobility of your cause, nor by the unequivocal fact that you and your friends were whitewashed as pure as the driven snow in the investigation done by your other friends … instead, they noted your emails saying things like:
In that regard I don’t think you can ignore it all, as Mike [Mann] suggests as one option, but the response should try to somehow label these guys a[s] lazy and incompetent and unable to do the huge amount of work it takes to construct such a database.
Indeed technology and data handling capabilities have evolved and not everything was saved. So my feeble suggestion is to indeed cast aspersions on their motives and throw in some counter rhetoric. Labeling them as lazy with nothing better to do seems like a good thing to do.
SOURCE: email 1177158252
Yeah, that’s the ticket, that’s how a real scientist defends his scientific claims …
w.

And at another location:
“Buzz Belleville
This is a humanitarian crisis. And it’s quite sad that the U.S. fails to act. At some point, folks who are opposing action should be held complicit in the deaths we’re seeing.”
Link: http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/08/13/climate-breakdown/comments
Read the rest he writes there. No point debating with this chap, he has the blinkers on and it’s full steam ahead.
Given that he is a lawyer maybe he should try suing a coal-fired power station for some of the deaths he claims CO2 has caused… keep me posted on his progress if he does 🙂
Excuse me, Rob? Buzz’ first sentence was “What a dishonest posting.” Of course, yours was hardly any better so it is not a surprise you view Willis as rude. I’ll give you a hint: if your first attempt at dialog is an accusation of dishonesty, you hardly have a right to claim you were treated impolitely.
Get a clue, it takes one to survive outside the bubble you live in.
Thanks Bulldust,
I love this quote from Buzz at that site.
.
You may want to employ that logic to the starvation of untold numbers due to misguided biofuel policies and subsidies. Since comparable weather events have occurred in the past making attribution impossible, the biofuel issue is much easier to quantify because it is, in the language of AGW promoter camp, “unprecedented”.
You gonna turn yourself in for punishment Buzz?
Buzz Belleville (6:31 am):
….Actually, I teach the class, at a law school in coal country. Students that plan to head into the field need to understand where the law is heading…
This tactic of creating an expectation of “where the law is heading”, which in turn causes much uncertainty in industry, has been very successful in the coal-powered electricity sector here in Australia so far.
The greens’ solution to this green inspired uncertainty is of course is to adopt the regulatory or taxation measures that the greens are urging and voilà, uncertainty disappears.
It was a tactic familiar to would-be Roman emperors and more recently to a certain political aspirant in Central Europe about 80 years ago viz. create uncertainty and disorder, then step in to restore order.
The solution is to find political leaders with the courage to tell them where to go.
Great read — loved it — I got a question. A little off-topic maybe.
I am a non-scientist. My understanding is that CO2 increase is going to kill us all because of a — positive feedback effect.
OK — How rare or prolific are naturally occurring positive feedback effects in the environment? If there were a lot of them it seems like we would be having catastrophes all the time. And I don’t just mean climate related ones. I mean about any aspect of the earth environment, anything in nature (let’s ignore the sun and the rest of the universe).
I can think of the idea that at the start of an ice age more ground covered permanently by snow causes more sunlight to be reflected back in space causing lower temperatures and thus more ground to be covered permanently by snow but that is the only one I can come up with. And I don’t even know if that one is true.
So are there a lot of positive feedback cycles? Or does nature abhor a positive feedback cycle? It seems to me that if there were a lot of them the earth would not be capable of supporting life.
If this is a good question please feel free to use it any way you want. If it is a dumb question please feel free to humiliate me. Then I can get Buzz the environmental law school professor who has posted on this thread to sue you. Oh wait — you are anti- warming so you don’t get much grant money if any. Probably he would not consider it worth his time.
Sorry getting giddy — been reading this thread for a couple hours. Anyway great post!
EWRGALL
R. Gates says: January 16, 2011 at 9:53 pm
“Would take a bit research, but in general, if the cause is unknown, there would be nothing to add to the model.”
Why not? A robust climate model should take into account changes in the Thermohaline Circulation. How can you effectively predict the AMO, PDO, ENSO decades into the future if you don’t know what the oceans have in store?
“Models are based on known physcial relationships with specific hypotheses tested by altering variables.”
Models are dependent on having accurate historical data and knowledgeable (in this case prescient) programmers. Our historical data on an array of critical variables is troublingly brief e.g.;
Satellite Surface Temperature records since 1979;
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_Dec_102.gif
Satellite Global Sea Ice Area measurements since 1979;
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
and Argo Oceanic temperature and salinity measurements since 2007;
http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/
From a programming perspective, only a Soothsayer would claim to have broken the code to Earth’s absurdly complex continually evolving climate system and now accurately predict its trajectory, temperature and behavior many decades into the future…
“Please give a reference for this event you’re referring to.”
http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v2/n1/abs/ngeo382.html
“Also in respect to my being a 75% “warmist” and 25% skeptic–yes, I feel that generally AGW likely happening and thus in general AGW theory is correct– anthropengic GHG’s can alter the climate. Every day I also spend time looking at other conjectures and alternative hypotheses to explain the range of effects that AGW Theory can account for. From solar to longer term ocean cycles and even geomagnetic cycles– they all are interesting, but none of them has yet risen to the level of a full-blow theory to rival AGW. If I didn’t retain my skeptical side, I wouldn’t spend any time with them at all…”
So what do we need to do to get you to 26%? Do we need to build our own GCM?
Bulldust says:
January 16, 2011 at 9:44 pm
[we don’t encourage this kind of thing ~ ctm]
Fair enough ctm – I didn’t realise there was a policy against posting details if someone happened to blog under their name as a handle (assuming the chap did, of course). No doubt several people have Googled this chap by now and found the same information.
Robb876 says:
January 16, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Am I the only one who finds this whole Willis vs Buzz argument a bit ridiculous?…. Willis, you were much more rude to buzz than he ever was to you… Totally uncalled for and should have been moderated….
Yes, Robb, you just might well be the only one to feel that way, since you apparently are unable to even try to substantiate what you are saying! Perhaps this in turn involves a defect in your ability to comprehend what you are reading, which you might have been alluding to in your “Robb876 says: January 15, 2011 at 3:55 am” post where you expressed your frustration by exclaiming, “Could anybody actually make it through that entire post??”
So yes, Robb, you are probably onto something very important…about yourself! Good luck with the remedial reading class!
Bulldust says:
January 16, 2011 at 10:06 pm
And at another location:
“Buzz Belleville
Read the rest he writes there. No point debating with this chap, he has the blinkers on and it’s full steam ahead.
Given that he is a lawyer maybe he should try suing a coal-fired power station for some of the deaths he claims CO2 has caused… keep me posted on his progress if he does 🙂
————————————————————-
Bulldust OMG – just read it – and this ‘person’ teaches! God help us.
Douglas
R. Gates;
Also in respect to my being a 75% “warmist” and 25% skeptic–yes, I feel that generally AGW likely happening and thus in general AGW theory is correct– anthropengic GHG’s can alter the climate>>>
Nice of you to respond to that part of my post. NOW HOW ABOUT THE REALLY IMPORTANT PART WHICH WAS POINTING OUT TO YOU THAT THE IPCC REPORT ITSELF MAKES A MOCKERY OF YOUR ASSERTION THAT THE CLIMATE MODELS ARE COMPLETE IN TERMS OF VARIABLES USED?
Or do you just respond to comments that you can spin and think no one will notice that you completely side stepped the facts themselves?
I have another question — this time about climate models. I am a non-scientist so I want to see if I am understanding this correctly.
Scientists know things about what past climate was. So they make models which when they feed in past data it gives results the same as what actually did happen to the climate in the past. They tinker with their models to make sure that their models always replicate the known past. They use a number of features in their models and are always trying to increase the number of features they use. And there are several different independent climate models and they all predict the past pretty good. Except that the values of the features incorporated in their model are all different.
To explain what I mean this is like giving three people each a piece of paper and a pencil and telling them to pick five number that add up to 100
13+17+19+21+30=100
24+12+14+19+31=100
11+19+18+32+20=100
They all claim that because they all arrive at the same predetermined number validation has occurred for each model.
And to make their models even better they are always striving to increase the number of features they use. Which is like saying find seven numbers that add up to a hundred.
13+17+11+19+18+10+12=100
21+12+17+15+11+14+10=100
18+12+19+16+11+10+14=100
So the model with more features in it is a better predictor of the predetermined climate outcome.
Now my understanding is these model never seem to predict very well what the future climate will be and they all come up with different answers. That seems like giving people a paper and pencil and telling then to write down the seven best number that they can think of.
23+11+19+12+22+21+18=126
11+13+10+24+14+15+28=117
27+18+22+15+19+25+17=143
And suddenly all the models give different answers. So is my understanding of climate modeling correct? Is that basically how it works? Do I understand the basics?
EWRGALL
Bulldust says:
January 16, 2011 at 10:06 pm
And at another location:
“Buzz Belleville:
This is a humanitarian crisis. And it’s quite sad that the U.S. fails to act. At some point, folks who are opposing action should be held complicit in the deaths we’re seeing.”
If my understanding is correct, Buzz is from the legal profession, so I suppose his null would be – somebody is to blame! There probably is, from Government planning committees, to energy providers, to architects, to builders, to engineers, right down to land owners, housewives and teenagers, and even God if they can successfully serve a summons. The latter might prove troublesome as His domicilium citandi et executandi has proved difficult to locate. So apportioning blame is going to prove rather difficult seeing that everybody is guilty in some manner, indeed just being alive could be an offence. Then of course they would need to prove beyond doubt that every “humanitarian crisis” is caused by someone else and not in some way by the litigants themselves. IOW you would be suing yourself. Of course nature herself will have to testify as to why she can be a real bitch sometimes.
HAS:
AGW-supporters have been assaulting the sc ientific method for decades. Now, Trenberth does it (in the subject of this thread) by claiming the null hypothesis should be reversed. And in this thread you have tried to do it by redefining the null hypothesis.
But you ‘crossed the line’ when you claimed a link (cited by you and provided by you) said there were a “pair” of null hypotheses. In fact it stated the null hypothesis and what would be a counter-hypothesis to it. So, either:
You did not read what you linked and cited
Or
You lied.
AGW-supporters often do both so neither is a surprise. But – in response to my pointing out your behaviour – at January 16, 2011 at 3:53 pm you attempt sophistry to excuse your attack on science.
In your recent post you write;
“If I’m testing the null that AGW causes >50% of the recent warming,”
No! Do not be a blithering idiot!
The null hypothesis is that chance, or random variation, or natural variation (call it what you will) is the cause of the recent warming: nothing else – not AGW, not your dreams, not the Easter Bunny – causes any part of it.
Nobody needs to consider whether AGW or anything else is causing any of the recent warming unless and until the null hypothesis is disproved.
Your sophistry says;
“In respect of the first all I can say is I didn’t set out to attack the scientific method, just to help better explain it. As to the second point you misunderstood what I was saying. I used a figure of speech “have a look at a statistical reference or two” and then gave one example. Confusing on my part, perhaps, but “reprehensible”?”
A misrepresentation that distorts the scientific method is NOT an explanation, and an “example” that says the opposite of what you assert is a lie. Both are reprehensible.
Richard
Buzz is paid by the Big Windmill industry.
Jim D:
You have not apologised for your reprehensible behaviour as I asked but, instead, at January 16, 2011 at 4:38 pm you again repeat falsehoods.
There is nothing “vague” in the null hypothesis. Indeed, there is nothing “vague” in any part of the scientific method, and this clarity is why AGW-supporters find the method inconvenient to their assertions.
Your behaviour is not acceptable, so be a good little troll and return to under your bridge.
Richard
Willis,
I recommend that you don’t get too upset with Buzz. At least not in your actual comments on this blog post.
I found your post informative and challenging to the scientists promoting AGW by revealing the implicit arrogance (ignorance?) in what they promote. However, I think letting Buzz be critical without letting him get to you personally would promote more clarity in both his and your position. I for one like to hear every argument there is in civil discourse. I can understand how one can be provoked by allegations of dishonesty, but I would still recommend that you instead challange him to be clear and very specific about how your criticism is dishonest and not legitimate.
Sorry about typos. Not a native speaker.
Mr Gates said he believes in AGW, but he’s wrong and we will prove it.
Queensland is going to have an Independent Commission of Inquiry ‘to forensically examine Queensland’s unprecedented flood disaster.’
http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2011/01/queensland-premier-establishes-commission-of-inquiry-into-flood-disaster/
It is now up to BOM to tell the world how they could have got it so wrong. Those expensive models can’t predict seasonal weather and need to be scrapped.
The Inquiry will prove that the theory of CAGW is flawed.
Robb876 says:
January 16, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Y’know, after reading your post about Buzz and I and thinking it over, Robb876, I find that it is the most dishonest posting I have ever seen.
You see how much fun that is, Robb, to have someone’s opening line be a personal insult like that? Does that make you want to continue the discussion?
Then consider if I repeated the insult after you gave me a polite request to cease and desist with the insults, I answered back like this:
How would that set with you, Robb? Makes you want to leap into an exciting intellectual interchange with the writer, does it?
Then finally, when I tell you that you are intellectually dishonest for a third time, insisting that there is nothing I can call your postings but intellectually dishonest … well, perhaps you might sit still for that kind of thing.
I don’t. Perhaps that kind of behaviour is perfectly acceptable in your house, Robb. In mine, it is rude, boorish, and uncalled for, and it won’t be tolerated by me. You want to act like that, you can go discuss your ideas with somebody else.
Did I go out of my way to obstruct Buzz? No, quite the opposite. I tried to help him with his shocking lack of social skills. I told him, in very clear terms, what constitutes unpleasant and unwelcome behavior here. I gave him a third chance, saying clearly that if he wanted to discuss these issues with me, he had to stop with the insults. I don’t see how I could have been more clear or done more for him. Despite that, he went out of his way to repeat his boorish insulting clown act for the third time.
Was I “more rude to Buzz than he was to me” after that, as you say? Was I rude to him after he came back to spit his accusation of dishonesty back in my face for a third time?
Damn right I was, Robb, with the most cutting insults I could find, and I would have used worse if I had them to hand. I have no use and no time for men like that, he has no sense of honor himself. And what’s worse, he is so dense that he doesn’t understand that other men and women are honorable, and will defend that honor against congenital serial calumniasts like our Buzz. Buzz doesn’t want to discuss things, Robb, that’s just what he tells himself to comfort him to sleep at night. He wants to fight.
People who want to discuss things don’t start insulting people as soon as they walk in the door. People who want to discuss things apologize when they break local custom, and keep on going. People who want to discuss things respond to even small clues about expected behavior, and are grateful for and follow explicit instructions about said behavior.
People who want to fight, on the other hand, walk in the door insulting people. When it is pointed out to them, people who want to fight do not apologize for their actions. Instead, they deepen the insult by pretending that the issue is that you are so uncouth as to be insulted by them. They’ll say, “I’m sorry that my words upset you,” as if your being upset is the problem rather than their crude and anti-social actions, and then they’ll proceed to repeat the insult as many times as necessary.
Which of these sounds like our Buzz to you? It’s an open book test, feel free to read what he wrote.
Finally, me, I’ve never banned a single person from commenting. I don’t know how, I don’t have the power to do that, and although Anthony would likely grant me the power if I asked, I don’t want the power to ban people, I’d probably misuse it.
So as far as I’m concerned, Buzz is free to babble on here for as long as he wishes … but I’m not having a discussion with him. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I’ve already got coffee up my nose from earlier hilarity.
w.
Well sir I salute you on this stunningly excellent post…
Truly a gem, a gem that needs to be required reading for anyone wanting to go into the scienes…
Magnus says:
January 17, 2011 at 2:31 am
I did challenge him to be clear about his claims, Magnus, see my post a ways above. I said:
However, I will never “challange him to be clear and very specific about how your criticism is dishonest”. I don’t care about the details of Buzz’s fantasies about honesty, any more than I care what my cat thinks about the fit of my Hawaiian shirts — their familiarity with the subject matter in both cases seems about equal.
But beyond that, the main thing is, it’s not relevant to, and has no place in, a scientific discussion. Either what I say is right, or it is wrong, WHETHER I AM HONEST OR NOT.
So my honesty is MEANINGLESS in a scientific discussion. The fact that he even mentions it, much less brings it up in the first sentence, means he is not interested in discussing things.
Magnus, you are obviously laboring under the mistaken idea that Buzz wants an intellectual discussion about the issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Buzz wants a fight, he has demonstrated that repeatedly by his actions. Sorry, but he’ll have to do that with someone other than me.
Your English is excellent, native speaker or not.
w.
Wonderful posting… a text book response… from a text book on logic & morals that every scientist should read and inwardly digest… honesty, integrity, openness and scruples are mandatory credentials for every scientist – especially those with a PhD.
However, the statement that global warming is “unequivocal” is a very misleading statement… every day we experience cooling when the sun sets… every day we experience warming when the sun rises… every year we experience winter cooling when the sun is low in the sky… every year we experience summer warming when the sun is high in the sky… and each year is never exactly the same… the only true statement is: weather variability is “unequivocal”.
To accept the statement that global warming is “unequivocal” requires a belief in the official data published by the official organisations that are buried up to their necks in the manmade global warming is “unequivocal” belief system… their thermometer data has been shown to be biased, manipulated, inaccurate and partial… and their satellite temperature data has not been calibrated with ground based thermometers, has not been independently verified / reproduced and has been shown to include bogus values.
Perhaps the best global indicator we seem to have is the Global Sea Ice Area assessment (since 1979) that indicates a healthy, naturally variable annual pattern – with an anomaly that ranges between +/- 2 million square kilometres… when we have some additional trustworthy data we might be able to make an “unequivocal” scientific statement. http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
Buzz Belleville
January 15, 2011 at 5:43 am
The point that we haven’t warmed the past decade and that the past 30 years are consistent with natural variability …. kind of shameless.
1) “we haven’t warmed the past decade”
Here is the data from the Climate Research Unit:
http://bit.ly/hE3vv1
Yes, according to the data, according to the apolitical science, we haven’t warmed in the past decade as the global mean temperature was flat at about 0.4 deg C.
2) “the past 30 years are consistent with natural variability”
Here is the data for the past 30 years from 1980 to 2010 showing a warming rate of about 0.16 deg C
http://bit.ly/fJ7rI4
Here is the data for the 30 years period a century ago from 1910 to 1940 showing similar warming rate of about 0.15 deg C.
Yes, according to the data, according to the apolitical science, the past 30 years warming is consistent with natural variability (the previous warming rate has not been exceeded!)
Buzz, what is the shameless?
Is it the politicized science?
Thank you for your cogent responses, I am aware that I don’t share the local concensus and would want to avoid any accusation of thread subject hijack – so I appreciate the replies even if they may not be absolutely relevent to the thread topic.
I am aware of the objections to the OLR/DLR changes as a ‘fingerprint’ of AGW. Sensors capable of resolving the IR spectra were not developed until the 70s(?) and satellite measurement is difficult, with confounding factors of attitude drift etc. Also there are no comparable pre-ACO2 rise data. But despite these limitations, the consilience between two different measures of the change in energy flow caused by rising CO2 seems to provide reasonably robust evidence that the thermodynamics of the climate are altered by rising CO2.
@- Willis Eschenbach says:
You have propounded a hypothesis which is very, very difficult to establish. The ugly truth is that’s an inevitable result when you try to assign causality to a third-order* forcing. The signal is really, really hard to dig out of the noise.
On the contary the primary signal, global temperature rise, loss of land-based ice mass and sea level rise is easy to see. It is attributing causation to a factor in the climate system that is very very difficult. I have some familiarity with biological systems, and there the importance of what you call ‘third order*’ forcings and the difficulty of identifying and measuring them in that disipline makes climate science look like a walk in the park…
@- Dr. Dave says:
” I’ve read izen’s comments on many blogs over the last 6 months or so. He’s a thoroughly entrenched ideologue.”
I am most flattered by your atention, before the last six months I had many happy hours playing wack-a-mole with Creationists at several site. Regretably they – the sites and creationists – have closed or left so I have had to find a new crowd of anti-science advocates to entertain me and hone my own ideas on.
I would have to say that being labeled a ‘entrenched idealogue’ by you is rather a case of the cylindrical food cooking container asserting the kitchen water boiling utensil is covered in amorphous carbon particles.
[Reply: Labeling readers and commentators here as “anti-science advocates” puts you squarely in the troll category. Don’t be surprised if your future posts are deleted without comment. ~dbs, mod.]
Over at RC their top post is about a conversation overheard in a news room. Commenters giggle and try to make their own funny dialogue. Funny how they censor everything. Not just counter arguments, but jokes as well! Such a shame.
Overheard in a newsroom near you:
How about this:
Reporter: OK, why are you calling me about ‘climate science’, do have anything to report?
Climate scientist: Well, we have some statistics regarding the albedo effect. It could be that increased albedo in the Northern Hemisphere…
Reporter: Sshhh, professor. This sounds very vague and not like something that is going to sell our tabloids. We’ll call the people working at CERN instead. Bye.
Climate scientist: WAIT!!!! WAIT!!!
Reporter: What now?
Climate scientist: What if I told you to quote me on the following: “the sky is falling!”.
Reporter: Now we’re talking. Care to give a precise estimate on exactly when this happens?
Climate scientist: Let me just press ‘run’ on the model. I can make it happen as soon as 2050.
Reporter: Niiiice round figure. You got yourself a first page, professor!
Climate Scientist: Oh, it’s Schmidt! Gavin! Get that in there.