Why weather prediction got brilliant – but not climate predictions

From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT

By Paul Homewood

Great video by Peter Ridd:

AI formatted transcript below.


Here is the transcript with grammar and spelling corrected, content unchanged:


Computer models predicting weather and climate are actually fairly similar to each other. They use basic physics — the laws of motion, Newton’s laws of motion, thermodynamics, radiative transfer — and a very big computer.

And the weatherman often gets a very bad rap for predictions that don’t always work out. And it’s very unfair, in my opinion, where the models are actually fabulous, and there’s no doubt they’ve improved hugely over the last decades.

But climate models? Not so much.

Now, I live in an area where we have to dodge a few cyclones each year, and I reckon it’s incredible just how good a job, for example, the Weather Bureau does at predicting the future paths of those cyclones. They did a magnificent job for, for example, Tropical Cyclone Narelle. They said it would head across Cape York Peninsula and into the Northern Territory. And that’s exactly what it did. I remember a time when those predictions were pretty well useless — if there was a cyclone in the Coral Sea, the predictions were basically that it could go anywhere.

So let’s have a look at why the weather predictions have got so much better in the last decades. There are four reasons, and we’re only going to concentrate on one.

The first is that we have a better handle on the physics of the atmosphere. It’s not a lot better, and it’s not actually a big deal. The second thing is we’ve got much bigger computers, and this does make a difference. The third reason, and this starts to get important now, is that we now have huge amounts of data from the recent past, and we can use advanced statistical methods — AI, if you like — to help with the predictions. So just as ChatGPT is trained on everything that’s ever been written in the past on the internet to give an answer to your question that kind of sounds okay, the same can be done with the weather. They use the data from the past to work out what would happen if conditions in the past were similar to what we are seeing today, more or less.

But the fourth reason is very, very important, and it’s what we’re going to focus on today. And it’s something that’s not well known: we can now measure the atmosphere much more accurately, and sometimes in some surprising ways.

It turns out that to make a weather prediction for tomorrow, it helps a lot if you know really well — everywhere — what the weather is today.

Now, to understand this, we need to look closely at how weather and climate models work, how they are the same, and how they’re different.

So the great big physics calculations use the laws of thermodynamics — about how air expands, heats, cools, how water vapor forms — and there are plenty of really nice mathematical equations for that. Some are very accurate. Others, about clouds, are pretty hairy, actually — basically just educated guesses. Then there’s the physics of all the radiation: the sun’s radiation coming in, the infrared radiation coming from the ground, from the clouds, even from the air itself.

These sit on top of a great big model that uses Newton’s laws of motion — good old Newton — to work out how the air moves: the wind, the vertical motions, and what that air carries with it — the humidity, its momentum, its kinetic energy. Newton’s second law can be used to work out how that air will accelerate. That’s the A in F = MA — basically how it changes speed or direction.

But we do need to know the mass of the air, and that’s not too hard. We just divide the whole atmosphere into a whole lot of chunks a few kilometers across and say a kilometer in the vertical. We then need to know the F, which is the force on the air. Lots of things contribute to that: the air pressure, the Earth’s rotation, the air density. We then work out the acceleration, or the change in speed or direction, over a given period of time.

We can compare it with calculations of a car accelerating. You’ve got an engine that produces the force, and let’s say the car accelerates at 20 km/h per second — or at least it goes 20 km/h faster every second. So we can work out how fast it will be going in, say, five seconds’ time. Five times 20 is 100 — we will be going 100 km/h faster than we were at the beginning.

But here’s the crucial thing: to know how fast we will be going in five seconds, you need to know how fast you were going at the beginning. If we started sitting still at the traffic lights, then in five seconds we will be doing 100 km/h. But if we were already doing 60 km/h when we floored the throttle, we will now be doing 60 plus 100 — 160 km/h — in five seconds.

You need to know the initial conditions to work out what you’ll finally be doing. The initial condition is the parlance of the differential equations that this all comes from, and it’s the same for weather. You cannot calculate the wind speed or direction tomorrow unless you know what the wind speed and direction is today. And it’s not just the wind — it’s also the pressure, the humidity.

Now, the weather, like many systems, if you get those initial conditions wrong, the final answer you get can be totally different, even if you get that initial condition wrong by a tiny amount. So for example, these balls rattling around here started in just a very slightly different position, and with a little bit of time they’re in a completely different position. This is a classic example of a compound pendulum — the two pendulums started in very slightly different positions, but if you go out in time, eventually they’re nowhere near the same position. And it’s exactly the same with the weather. Get that initial condition wrong, and in a week or two or three weeks down the line, you cannot possibly have an accurate weather prediction.

So how has our ability to measure the weather improved so much?

The first is that satellites can see clouds, but that’s just the start. They can actually monitor and measure the microwave and infrared radiation coming from the air itself, to get a profile of the air temperature and the humidity from the top of the atmosphere down to the surface. Now they still use the old system of releasing balloons that carry humidity and temperature sensors, but they can only do that in a few locations. So when the Bureau does it, as you can see from this map, it’s not very many places, and they can’t do it in the middle of the ocean.

But here’s one thing that I found very interesting — a measurement we can actually use: the GPS system, the same one you use with your phone to work out where you are. It turns out that it can be used to monitor humidity. With the GPS system, there are signals going from the satellite down to ground stations, and the timing of those signals is used to work out your location. But the time of flight of those signals depends on the humidity. So they can do some pretty snazzy calculations and actually probe the atmosphere with the GPS signal.

So what you’re seeing here now is just a revolution in the way we can measure the weather. If you can know the weather today, you can work out what the weather is going to be tomorrow much more accurately.

Now let’s look at climate models. In many ways they are similar, but climate is sort of an average of the weather conditions, and we often take that average over, say, 30 years. In a weather model, we calculate the changes in the weather and add or subtract that to what the conditions are today. For climate models, rather than calculating changes with time, we try to calculate the average conditions over a long period of time.

And it’s actually quite interesting that even here, the present climate models are often gotten wrong by the great big famous climate models — so they disagree with each other by up to a few degrees. I did a video on that.

Now, maybe it doesn’t matter too much, because what we really want to know is how the climate will change if you, say, double the amount of carbon dioxide, or some other parameter. So, for example, modelers often do interesting simulations where they reduce the sun’s output, or even change the position of the continents and the oceans, to simulate past climates.

So this is an important difference: weather models calculate the change in the weather using today’s weather as a starting point, and calculate the weather tomorrow. Climate models start usually with the rough climate and calculate the changes in the climate if we change some important parameter, like maybe carbon dioxide concentration.

Doubling the climate models — climate models don’t need highly accurate measurements of the climate today to calculate the changes if you double the carbon dioxide, for example. But weather models need very accurate measurements of the weather today to calculate the weather a week or a day in the future.

So this means that the weather models have benefited massively from all the extra measurements, but not so the climate models — that extra data we have for weather today does not help us calculate the weather in 100 years’ time. So climate models don’t benefit from the revolution.

So what’s the moral of the story? Don’t keep dissing the weatherman. He’s actually doing an incredibly good job. And same with all those technical people who developed the satellite monitoring systems, the GPS systems, and the statistical techniques — they’ve made a revolution.

Now, as for the climate models — well, are they actually better at prediction than a simple back-of-the-envelope calculation? You can do a very simple calculation and end up with a number very similar to these huge supercomputer outputs. And do the models really predict catastrophe? And do the models have discrepancies with each other — big discrepancies? And do we have a fundamental problem that we won’t be able to tell if they’re right or wrong until 2050 or 2100, when it could well be all too late because we’ve cooked — or maybe we realize that they were all wrong?

Well, my, look at the time. We’ll have to do that on another day.

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April 4, 2026 2:23 am

The fundamental difference is that weather forecasts rely on the data we have for right now, or the very recent past, extrapolated into the very near future (hours and days). That’s generally good data fed into good models based on good physics.

Climate models suffer from GIGO- bad assumptions fed into highly massaged models extrapolated into the far future. If you start out with a garbage assumption, like doubling CO2 leads to huge warming feedbacks that have never been observed in the past, then by the time you get to the year 2100, the result is silly…and leftist politicians and activists want to base law and policy on that, to the detriment of the economy.

roywspencer
Reply to  johnesm
April 4, 2026 2:36 am

Yes, this is basically what I was also going to say. Peter had too many words that didn’t really drive home this central point. And I agree with him that weather forecast models are amazingly accurate now…but that’s mainly because they are doing a fancy extrapolation of todays weather — everywhere — into the near (not distant) future.

Reply to  roywspencer
April 4, 2026 5:37 am

Exactly, and back to the point about unrealistic positive feedbacks from CO2, if such positive feedbacks were actually there, then the history of Earth’s climate throughout time would be total chaos. Any disruption to the climate system, like a volcanic eruption, should lead to huge, long-term changes that are never actually seen.

Robert Cutler
Reply to  johnesm
April 4, 2026 7:53 am

Climate largely repeats after 3560 years. The external forcing is significant, and has very precise timing (see the GISP2 reconstruction).

Paper: A 3560-Year Jovian Solar and Climate Cycle

comment image

Robert Cutler
Reply to  Robert Cutler
April 5, 2026 5:42 am

I’m not bothered by cowardly down votes, but I am confused by the lack of discussion around this major discovery. Watts up with that?

Reply to  Robert Cutler
April 5, 2026 8:13 am

It is easier and takes no energy to simply push a button

Reply to  roywspencer
April 4, 2026 7:36 pm

 And I agree with him that weather forecast models are amazingly accurate now.

Not here (Southern Australia) it isn’t. Pick any forecast 7 days out and it will many times change everyday until it bares no resemblance to the original forecast 7 days before. Sometimes it is correct but mostly it isn’t. That means it is not ”amazingly accurate” in the slightest.

Reply to  Mike
April 5, 2026 1:07 am

I agree. With all the recent computer modeling we only managed to move the accuracy a few days forward and even then it all depends on how the actual trajectory behaves which is often not linear.
Furthermore, specific local conditions influence specific outcomes.
Location trumps everything.
Certain locations make predictions much easier than others.
I live in Ireland. The influence of the Atlantic ocean is huge. Pressure zones often change trajectory.
3 to 5 days is manageable and even then it is hit and miss. Can the Met Office guarantee a 10 day trend? Sometimes. But the error bars are shown in the predictions.
So, the answer is: it depends.
Maybe it’s easier in Australia.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  roywspencer
April 5, 2026 7:20 am

I haven’t seen any of this amazing accuracy, at all.

Reply to  johnesm
April 4, 2026 4:36 am

Even if an imaginary climate model were to exhibit perfect fidelity to Earth’s climate system response to TSI (total solar irradiance), the uncertainty in the computed climate state builds up rapidly from just the small uncertainty in the value of TSI – an external input. This is unavoidable in the step-iterated simulation. Such was the point of my comment on the DOE “Critical Review” report authored by the 5 CWG members, all of whom deserve great respect for their contributions to science and to the climate topic.

https://www.regulations.gov/comment/DOE-HQ-2025-0207-0371

The May 23, 2025 EO “Restoring Gold Standard Science” was correct, in Section 4, to require,
“(c) When using scientific information in agency decision-making, employees shall transparently acknowledge and document uncertainties, including how uncertainty propagates throughout any models used in the analysis.”

lewispbuckingham
April 4, 2026 2:28 am

The AI summary leaves out all the bits that help understanding.
A full transcript would be far better.

Reply to  lewispbuckingham
April 4, 2026 2:45 am

But…but…but isn’t AI intelligent? How could it leave out important bits that help understanding? That would be stupid.

No, you are wrong.

/sarc

Scissor
Reply to  worsethanfailure
April 4, 2026 5:28 am
Reply to  lewispbuckingham
April 4, 2026 9:29 am

Seems to me that if you’re going to read the full transcript, might as well watch the full video. I suspect you can find the full transcript on the video to the side.

April 4, 2026 2:51 am

If the humidity (and presumably also the density) of a given volume of air can be measured accurately, then wouldn’t the energy within that volume of air be a far more useful parameter than the temperature anomaly? In other words, the “total energy” anomaly and, like temperature anomaly, it could be done regionally and globally. I suspect that polar amplification would not be so large using this as the measured parameter. I’m just asking, and since Dr Spencer is here, I would love to be educated on this.

Reply to  philincalifornia
April 4, 2026 7:34 am

It is exactly the question me and others have been asking. Enthalpy of a volume of air is the correct answer to energy that can be sensible and latent (hidden).

Today’s climate science is mired in the mud of past temperature data that consists of two temperature measurements a day, and as you proceed into the past, from fewer and fewer points on the globe. The need for long time series in order to justify “trending” accuracy should have been discarded long ago.

Energy flows from the sun to soil/ocean to atmosphere. How many plots have you seen that follow that thermodynamic path through. Heck, we are still using the flat earth with insolation averaged over it and 24 hours to estimate an average insolation instead of using actual measurements from a plethora of newer stations that measure both insolation and soil temperatures at various depths every 2 – 5 minutes to estimate what has actually been radiated into the atmosphere over a 24-hour period.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
April 4, 2026 6:35 pm

Why isn’t this being done? I only brought this up because I was unaware before reading this article that the humidity component was measurable accurately. Also, if you’re still here, a question on the latent energy: Would the altitude of the water vapor be what you are adding here.

The more I think about this, the more averaging temperature anomalies appears to be scientific fraud.

MarkW
Reply to  philincalifornia
April 4, 2026 9:42 am

Knowing temperature and humidity separately seems to be more useful than just knowing the energy.
Very hot air that is completely dry will behave very differently from humid air that is cooler. Even if the total energy in the two systems is the same.

Reply to  MarkW
April 4, 2026 6:30 pm

Yes, I wasn’t clear. Both temperature and humidity would be required, with total energy per unit volume being the goal.

MarkW
Reply to  philincalifornia
April 4, 2026 10:13 pm

Once you know temperature and humidity you could calculate total energy/volume, but what’s the point. As a value it tells you nothing that temperature and humidity don’t already tell you, and as a downside it hides information about the state of the air mass being observed.

As I state before, take two air masses with identical total energy. One mass is bone dry and very hot. The other air mass has 100% relative humidity and is cooler.

Place both volumes of air inside identical, much larger masses of air. Assuming both masses are lower in density that the larger masses, both masses will begin to rise.

The dry air mass will cool off adiabatically at a smooth rate depending on height.

The wet air mass will also cool off adiabatically at the same rate, until the temperature drops enough so that some of the evaporated water condenses. This changes the volume of the air mass as liquid water takes up less room than does water vapor. As it condenses, the water also gives off heat to the air mass, so that the air mass is now cooling at less than the adiabatic rate.

Knowing temperature or humidity alone, pretty much useless.
Knowing both temperature and humidity, much more useful.
Calculating enthalpy, interesting, but doesn’t provide you anything that temperature and humidity didn’t tell you, and has to be decomposed back to temperature and humidity before you can do anything with it.

Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 9:40 am

what’s the point”

“Calculating enthalpy, interesting, but doesn’t provide you anything that temperature and humidity didn’t tell you”

Enthalpy is an extensive property that can be compared between different locations. Temperature is not. Relative humidity is not. Both are intensive properties.

don k
April 4, 2026 3:35 am

One other thing Homewood sort of touches on. Feedback. Weather models have been tested against actual observed results millions of times. That allows the models to be improved and meaningful weightings to be assigned to observations. Testing of climate models against reality operates on a far different time scale. If feedback is important, it seems likely that it’ll be several millennia before we will have climate models that are useful for any real world purpose.

Tom Johnson
Reply to  don k
April 4, 2026 4:57 am

Actually, there is already plenty of data that the GCMs “run warm”, and also strongly indicate that the equilibrium climate sensitivity to CO2 is far too high. The modelers simply chose to ignore that information.

Reply to  don k
April 4, 2026 9:34 am

Even after several millennia we may not- since there are so many things effecting climate and many we don’t know about. Like trying to solve a formula with some missing variables. It wasn’t long ago we had no clue about dark matter and dark energy.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 4, 2026 9:47 am

The idea is that if we were using climate models the way they should be used, then every time a prediction was made, then the difference between the prediction and reality can be used to determine where our understanding of the climate is coming up short.
Over time, when properly used, models can help us figure out what it is we don’t know.

That’s how models are used in almost every field of study.

The problem with climatology is that models aren’t being used to study the climate, instead they are being used to justify the positions that the “climate scientists” have already taken.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
April 4, 2026 11:31 am

Another thing that irks me, is the way some people reject all use of models, just because the climate models are being misused. Almost any time an article mentions using a model in the research, somebody will always post in about how they stopped reading as soon as the word model was mentioned.

strativarius
April 4, 2026 4:20 am

I suspect you can ignore a great many influences when dealing in the short term with weather forecasting.

But with long term climate you cannot ignore them. And lets be honest, we don’t have much of a clue about the things we are aware of, such as gamma rays, tree and plant emissions, clouds, the deep oceans, solar and planetary conjunctions, cycles etc etc etc.

Despite the armada of climate models and their bickering, climate scientists are not advancing at all. They’re stuck.

MarkW
Reply to  strativarius
April 4, 2026 11:36 am

Even if CO2 levels made a difference, the concentration won’t change noticeably over the period of a 10 day forecast. As you move from winter solstice to summer solstice and back again, the amount of energy your little spot of the planet receives doesn’t change much from one day to the next. Not enough to impact a short term forecast.

April 4, 2026 4:23 am

Boiled down Dr. Ridd’s You Tube was covered succinctly by
the IPCC years ago, and isn’t anything new, just ignored:

IPCC TAR Chapter 14 page771 pdf4

The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system,
and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states
is not possible.

Reply to  Steve Case
April 4, 2026 9:36 am

bingo!

Reply to  Steve Case
April 4, 2026 10:19 am

If you ask Google AI:

Is a double pendulum an example of coupled non-linear chaotic system?

Yes, a double pendulum is a quintessential example of a coupled non-linear
chaotic system. While its construction is simple—two pendulums attached
end-to-end—its behavior is mathematically complex and serves as a primary
illustration of deterministic chaos.

                 CLIMATE MODELERS ARE TODAY’S ALCHEMISTS

Medieval Alchemist didn’t have modern science telling them you couldn’t find a
recipe to make gold from lead, so they had an excuse. Climate science knows
you can’t predict future climate states. You could therefore compare Climate
Modelers to the Alchemists, but that would be an insult to the Alchemists

You Tube Double Pendulum Simulation

.Kip Hansen put up a nice post about all of that some years ago.

Editor
April 4, 2026 4:41 am

Get that initial condition wrong, and in a week or two or three weeks down the line, you cannot possibly have an accurate weather prediction.“. The general wisdom (which I think is correct) is that no matter how accurate you get your initial conditions, two weeks down the line your weather prediction has little or no value. There is nothing that GCM climate models do better than weather models, so their climate forecasts have little or no value at most two weeks down the line. Two weeks is not exactly useful for climate, so it’s long past time to scrap the GCMs and try something else – and yes there are alternatives it’s just that government funding isn’t flowing in that direction.

MarkW
Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 4, 2026 11:40 am

Did you read the article? The reason why weather models go bad quickly is because it’s impossible to know all of the input conditions with high accuracy.

This fact is completely irrelevant when it comes to climate models because they don’t look at initial conditions.

GCMs have many problems, but none of these problems have anything to do with initial conditions.

Editor
Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 3:21 am

GCMs require and use initial conditions. Kay et al found that tiny changes in initial conditions (a tiny fraction of a trillionth of a degree Celsius) led to massively different results.
Kay et al (2015). The Community Earth System Model (CESM) Large Ensemble Project: A Community Resource for Studying Climate Change in the Presence of Internal Climate Variability. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 96(8), 1333–1349.
DOI: 10.1175/BAMS-D-13-00255.1

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 5, 2026 7:28 am

Hmm, if that’s true, and since a trillionth of a degree is an unknowable value, climate models can never be “right”.

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
April 5, 2026 8:22 am

It’s a crapshoot. Depending on the actual order of operations in the model code, the same initial condition can produce different results across different model runs. And reality is even more random and chaotic.

It’s important to remember also, ensembles of incorrect models are *not* more accurate. It’s highly unlikely that two inaccurate models can produce an accurate result and the more models that are included in the ensemble the less likely an accurate result will be produced from inaccurate models.

strativarius
April 4, 2026 4:56 am

Story Tip: The Absurdity of Michael Mann and Peter Hotez

Review of Michael Mann and Peter Hotez, Science Under Siege (New York, NY: PublicAffairs, 2025)

Mann accuses anyone who disagrees with him of promoting “antiscience” and “disinformation.” Organizations that give skeptics platforms are a “cancer,” a “virus,” or a “plague.” And such organizations are all “heavily funded” by the fossil fuel industry.
In this book and in previous ones, Mann slanders scores or even hundreds of distinguished scientists by accusing them, again without evidence, of being funded by “special interest groups.” The gall is nauseating. Joseph Bast

H/T Babbling Beaver

April 4, 2026 5:01 am
  1. weather models are not meant to be holistic nor do they need to be.
  2. climate models *have* to be holistic to have any meaning. What *is* the optimum climate? The current CGMs did nothing to predict the greening of the earth yet that greening has a significant impact on what the climate is. The current CGM’s did not predict the lengthening of the growing seasons that have been seen globally yet the growing season length has a significant impact on what the climate is.

We *still* see predictions from climate science about crop failures, mass starvation, mass migration, etc. The impacts are always 10 years down the road but it’s now been almost 30 years since the first “ten years down the road prediction” – and no evidence of even the slightest impact from the predictions have been seen.

Climate science has appointed itself as the Priest-King caste knowing what is best for humanity. And, as usual with Priest-King castes, their lack of clothing is finally beginning to be recognized by humanity.

strativarius
Reply to  Tim Gorman
April 4, 2026 5:43 am

weather models 

Their hubris can lead them to get it terribly wrong sometimes…

It was in April that the Met Office proclaimed the chances were ‘odds-on for a barbecue summer’.
Rather like Michael Fish in October 1987, after he mockingly dismissed claims that a hurricane was on its way, the aptly-renamed ‘Wet Office’ was forced to confess its shortcomings yesterday.
‘Seasonal forecasting is still a new science,’ it said in defence. 

July saw almost a month’s worth of rain falling in the first two weeks alone.DM

MarkW
Reply to  strativarius
April 4, 2026 12:21 pm

I suspect these seasonal models are a lot like the hurricane forecast models. The ones where before the season they make predictions on the number and severity of storms in each basin.

In my opinion, these models instead of trying to understand the system, try to determine which things most influence the system.

For a trivial and somewhat silly example, let’s say I was trying to come up with a model to predict what tomorrow’s temperature will be like.

I notice that the sun comes up every morning and the temperature warms at the same time. So the first factor in my model is how much time the sun spends above the horizon. The longer between sunrise and sunset, the warmer the day.

After watching my model for a few years, I find that it works pretty well overall, but there are a lot of days where the predictions come up short. What am I missing?

I notice that my neighbor painted his house, and the next day it was cooler. So I add a factor measuring the number of house recently painted in my neighborhood to my model and observe it for a few years. I notice that this new factor made no difference in the accuracy of my model, so I drop it.

I notice that the presence of clouds makes a difference in the temperature, so I add clouds to my model. After a few years I see that adding clouds to my model has made it more accurate so I keep clouds in my model.

This model makes no attempt to determine why clouds, or the color of my neighbor’s house impacts weather, just that they do, or don’t.

One thing this model does tell me, is that if I want to study something to help me understand weather, I would be better off studying clouds instead of the color of houses in my neighborhood.

MarkW
Reply to  Tim Gorman
April 4, 2026 11:52 am

Allow me to re-introduce what I like to call the 5 spheres of climatology.
Atmosphere
Hydrosphere
Cryosphere
Lithosphere
Biosphere

Not only do all 5 spheres mater when trying to study climate, but the interaction between the spheres matter as well.

Lets say temperature of the atmosphere changes, regardless of why it changed.
That change in temperature could change rainfall patterns, it will also impact how quickly the water that does fall evaporates.

Changes in the amount of water in the soil is going to impact what types of and how many plants grow.

Changes in the amount and types of plants will alter plant transpiration, which in turn will alter the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere.

Changes in plant life will also impact the number and types of animals, which in turn will impact the plants that live in that area.

If the plant changes from conifers to a higher percentage of deciduous trees, and if it snows in this area in the winter, then the change in plant composition can change how quickly the sunlight melts the snow in spring.

And on and on.

Every sphere impacts every other sphere and in turn is influenced by them.

Some want to include the sun in this analysis. I don’t. The sun influence life on the planet in many ways, but there is no way any of the other spheres can influence the sun.

So the sun is an input to the system, but it is not directly a part of the system.

Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 8:12 am

As Freeman Dyson pointed out in his criticism of “climate models”, they are *not* CLIMATE models. Climate models *should* be holistic if they are to be useful but they aren’t holistic at all, they are temperature models (and not good ones) and temperature, be it air temp or soil temp, is *not* climate by itself.

hiskorr
April 4, 2026 5:52 am

 “…but climate is sort of an average of the weather conditions,…”

Not so! A useful description of “climate” of a region is an expected RANGE of various weather factors that can be considered “normal” for that region, based on the experience of the last 30 years! How much (or little) snow (or rain) can we expect next winter (or summer)? How cloudy (or hot) will next July 4th be? When (and from what direction) can we expect windstorms, and how strong will they be? The answer to these “climate” questions lies in the experience of that region and in any trends that the experience reveals. The Farmers’ Almanac gives a better answer to those questions than a supercomputer model based on the Anomaly of the GAT!
“When your only tool is a thermometer…”

Editor
Reply to  hiskorr
April 5, 2026 3:32 am

Given that the major ocean oscillations – which affect regional climate a lot – average something like 2 to 3 times as long as 30 years, using a 30-year average for regional climate is not very clever.

NotChickenLittle
April 4, 2026 7:22 am

But all too often where I live they can’t tell me for sure if it’s going to rain tomorrow, or not – not even 24 hours in advance or even less. The best the multi-million dollars of equipment and models can do is tell me “49% chance of rain” or the like – meaning I can replace all their expensive equipment and highly-trained personnel for 25 cents with a coin toss…

Yet they persist in telling me how sophisticated and modern forecasts are. They’d do better to tell people the truth – weather is variable and chaotic and it’s often or even mostly not possible to be accurate except in generalities – like it’ll be windy in March and rainy in April, and cold in the winter. Just this past winter they over and under estimated weather events at least as many times as they were in the ballpark…

MarkW
Reply to  NotChickenLittle
April 4, 2026 12:28 pm

In many areas, rain is hit and miss. One area will get rain, someplace a few miles away will not.
In those cases, saying that there is a 10, 20, percent chance of rain is the best they can do. It will be many years before computers and models are powerful enough to tell you which spots will get rain and which won’t.

In another example, a cold front is approaching they expect it to stall out somewhere in your region, but the don’t know exactly where yet.
If it stalls out before reaching your house, the temperature will stay warm and you get no rain.
If it stalls out after passing your house, you will get cooler temperatures and some rain.
If it stalls out on top of your house, you will get just a little cooling and lots of rain.

You have to remember that any forecasts are for your entire region and have to be couched in those terms.

Are your really going to reject all forecasts because they aren’t perfect?

NotChickenLittle
Reply to  MarkW
April 4, 2026 1:49 pm

No, I reject the proposition that the forecasts are so much better.

MarkW
Reply to  NotChickenLittle
April 4, 2026 2:13 pm

The data disagrees with your opinion.

Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 1:23 am

The forecast quality is much better but a factor is that those forecasts are now coming in several times a day with updates. Because the computer models work w changing parameters. But the error bars still widen with time, no matter what.
20 years ago it was roughshot. Nowadays you can go and find specific weather conditions on an hourly basis.
Weather predictions are for farmers and sea farers.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 7:32 am

The weather disagrees with the data.

Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 8:18 am

I’ve been told that it’s better to use the percentage figures as a metric for how much of a given area will actually see rain. If the rain chance is 20% for your location then maybe 20% of your county will get some rain and 80% won’t. How *much* rain that 20% of the area will get is pretty much a crap shoot till it actually happens.

April 4, 2026 9:26 am

“But here’s one thing that I found very interesting — a measurement we can actually use: the GPS system, the same one you use with your phone to work out where you are.”

I’m probably wrong- but I thought smartphones use only towers for location purposes, not GPS.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 4, 2026 12:31 pm

That was an early system, before the GPS system.

The problem with such a system is that you have to be able to be able to receive from multiple towers and the only way to measure your distance from that tower is by measuring the strength of the signal you are receiving from each tower. Doable, but much less accurate.

Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 4:25 am

So, you’re saying that smartphones do use GPS? I’ve never had a good grasp of this topic.

Edit: OK, I googled the question and phones do use it. The reason I didn’t realize this is that I have an old GPS gizmo which could indicate how many satellites it detected, blah, blah. Not seeing anything about GPS on the phone, I assumed it just based its calculation on some geometry and the towers. Learn something new everyday and this is it. Thanks!

Dick Burk
April 4, 2026 11:58 am

Let’s see. I live in Cincinnati. If it’s raining in Indianapolis or Louisville today 90% chance its going to rain here tomorrow. Wish I had a bigger computer.

MarkW
Reply to  Dick Burk
April 4, 2026 12:35 pm

Because you can predict that a weather front will continue until it reaches your house without a big computer, therefore all modeling is of no value?

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2026 7:34 am

“All models are wrong, some are useful.”

-George Box

Bob
April 4, 2026 3:35 pm

Very nice.

Nik
April 5, 2026 6:15 pm

Excellent article. And great to see Peter in action after the hell the Aussie climate poohbahs put him through.