The True Cost of Biden’s Bet on BEVs

By Duggan Flanakin

August 09, 2024

Two months into his Presidency, Joe Biden announced a $2 trillion infrastructure plan that included $174 billion in grants, subsidies, and other payouts to encourage Americans to switch to battery-electric vehicles (BEVs). Since that initial “investment,” billions and billions more have been poured into what is increasingly a failing effort to convince or cajole auto buyers to switch.

These huge expenditures, together with COVID and war monies, have ballooned the national debt to the point that 76% of income taxes are needed just to pay interest on that debt. Many fear that profligate spending has the nation’s economy on the verge of collapse.

The fault lies with the very concept that Government Knows Best. Nothing is proving that tautology wrong more than the plethora of alternatives to BEVs – including a wide variety of hydrogen-powered engines and a new self-rotating engine– that are emerging on the world scene. None of these have been “blessed” with massive subsidies, and none would require a heavily subsidized nationwide charging station network.

It may be surprising to some, but even The New York Times back in 2021 questioned the wisdom of Biden’s bold BEV plunge. Niraj Chokshi wrote both that the $174 billion “might not be enough to push most Americans toward EVs.”

Chokshi was doubtful that “federal largesse,” which merely shifts part of the cost of a BEV from the buyer to the public, would convince consumers of the benefits of electric vehicles. That Biden then resorted to near-term mandates for a technology lacking a track record “only reinforces Chokshi’s observation.

Chokshi’s report made it clear that the $15,000 EV battery and its constant need for recharging would remain the biggest obstacles to public acceptance of what was at the time deemed the “only” pathway toward a cleaner energy future. There was no talk of support for other low- or no-“carbon” engine technologies on Capitol Hill or in the media.

Yet it is obvious today that multiple companies were already at work to develop alternatives to a vehicle that has to be recharged nearly every day. That may be convenient enough for the wealthy whose garages and home electrical systems can accommodate two charging ports but is quite difficult and time consuming for just about everyone else.

A recent article noted that Stellantis is investing $6 billion to build a generation of motors capable of running on gasoline or Brazilian ethanol and combined with plug-in hybrid technology. Kohler Engines last year unveiled a KDH hydrogen internal combustion engine, and BMW, Toyota, Triton EV, Hyundai, and many other automakers are also building hydrogen-fueled internal combustion engines.

Despite the federal push for a “one size fits all solution” to the presumed problem of carbon dioxide emissions, these and other automakers went ahead with unsubsidized alternatives for reasons they may be keeping to themselves. Did they “know” the BEV would never take hold universally?

Just this week, a new report touted a liquid nitrogen engine based on 1990s research at the University of Washington that, even with a 100-gallon nitrogen tank, is cheaper and lighter than the BEV. The operation is akin to that of a steam-driven engine and generates zero pollutants. Refueling, at existing gasoline and diesel stations, takes only a few minutes.

The prototype liquid nitrogen engine is nowhere near highway ready, but like other alternatives to grid-draining plug-ins, was ignored as a potential solution in the federal budget. And, like all of the other alternative engines, it does not rely on a lithium market controlled by China.

The “wisdom” from Washington has long been to create an all-electric motor vehicle fleet wholly dependent on an electric grid that is today on the verge of collapse, as baseload power plants are being shuttered in favor of intermittent wind and solar generation. But research from Oak Ridge National Laboratory published in 2021 made it clear that multiple pathways to cleaner burning vehicles was a far superior approach.

ORNL scientist David Cullen stated that, “Hydrogen fuel cells are ideal for the trucking industry because the refueling time and driving range are comparable to gasoline-powered (well, diesel-powered) trucks and travel routes are predictable, which lowers the barrier for developing a fueling infrastructure.” [Read: Every truck stop in America could easily accommodate hydrogen-fueled trucks.]

ORNL noted that hydrogen fuel cells (or any other hydrogen engine) contain a higher amount of energy per unit mass than a lithium battery or diesel fuel. More energy with less weight is gold for the trucking industry, which consumes a quarter of all U.S. fuel consumption while traveling only 10% of total vehicle miles.

Hydrogen would likely be an equally better choice for other heavy-duty vehicles, including school buses, but the Biden Administration has provided huge subsidies for BEV school buses, often with less than satisfactory results (despite glowing endorsements from the Vice President).

The Montgomery County, Maryland, public school district is the nation’s largest purchaser of electric school buses, with 326 ordered, delivered, or operating as of December 2023 at a cost of $168 million. But the county’s Office of Inspector General reports that the district’s rush to BEV buses has “led to millions of dollars in wasteful spending,” in part causes by late deliveries and maintenance issues.

From February 2022 to March 2024, these BEV buses failed to complete routes 280 times, with repairs taking an average of 13 days. Last October, the school board felt the need to buy 90 diesel buses to make up for the BEV bus failures.

Nationwide, over 90% of the 21 million-plus bused students ride in diesel buses, with most of the rest relying on propane. Fewer than 1% of children today ride on BEV buses, and many of the 12,000 “committed” BEV buses are not yet operational. Despite billions in federal largesse, Hydrogen-powered buses could likely be much more quickly delivered, likely cost less to purchase, and might be much more reliable on a day-to-day basis.

Two-thirds of the “committed” BEV buses were funded by the EPA’s Clean School Bus Program, which in 2022 awarded more than $900 million for nearly 2,300 buses in 365 school districts. The EPA spent another $1 billion the next year to add another 2,700 BEV buses in 270 school districts, and a third round threw another $900 million for 3,177 BEV buses in 500 districts.

The Biden Administration’s parting shot includes another round of Clean School Bus Program funding together with the EPA’s new Clean Heavy Duty Vehicles Grant Program, which targets refuse haulers, dump trucks, bucket trucks, utility trucks, and other box trucks. School buses get the biggest subsidies from this $1 billion package. Biden did belatedly throw a few billion at hydrogen producers, but little if any went to bolster hydrogen engines.

Has the federal government even looked closely at cost and performance comparisons among the various low- and zero-emission engines that are already on the market or being field-tested? Have administration officials consulted with automakers worldwide to learn why they are developing non-BEV engines?

Or is there some other reason that the Biden Administration, for which Vice President Harris has been a major spokesperson for the battery-electric school bus, has placed all of its bets on a technology controlled so heavily by China?

Duggan Flanakin (duggan@duggansdugout.com) is a senior policy analyst at the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow who writes on a wide variety of public policy issues.

This article was originally published by RealClearEnergy and made available via RealClearWire.

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August 12, 2024 6:04 pm

Plug-in hybrids. Buying gas would be a rare event.

Reply to  Steve Case
August 12, 2024 7:12 pm

Plugging-in is a rare event for many with hybrids.

You always have to have petrol in the tank, because the battery itself has very limited range.

Reply to  bnice2000
August 12, 2024 8:36 pm

We have a hybrid, and it get fantastic gas mileage. A plug-in should get similar mileage except for the first 20 miles or so it doesn’t use any gas. So if you have it plugged in every night, you’ll only use gas on those days you drive more than that first 20 miles or so.

For some people that’s not going to work.

Reply to  Steve Case
August 13, 2024 3:38 am

Now, if only your electricity was free. 🙂

Bryan A
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 13, 2024 4:58 am

Kids of the future simply won’t know the pleasure of refueling in 5 minutes. It will be a rare and wondrous event

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 13, 2024 8:15 am

. . . and in the USA, not based primarily on electricity be provided by the burning of gas (natural gas, that is). 😉

Reply to  Steve Case
August 13, 2024 4:16 am

For most people, that’s not going to work (no pun intended). A single use case based on an assumption about the availability of “overnight” charging doesn’t do much for the full spectrum of use cases and living conditions.

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 5:30 am

And during an extended power outage- imagine trying to get to work or anywhere else with an EV. Take a bus or train? Nope- they’ll be EV too.

Off topic- but, in the war in Ukraine and now Russia- neither nation has much in the way of green energy (I think)- but if they did- wind and solar systems would make super easy targets- as easy as those refineries in Russia that are burning. Some of the refineries can probably be restored in months- but if you shoot up a wind or solar farm– it would take years to restore. It seems that the green blob fails to understand the military vulnerabilities of having green energy.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 13, 2024 8:55 am

An excellent point not seen previously.

Reply to  bnice2000
August 12, 2024 11:42 pm

There is a lot to be said for a non plug-in hybrid – a mild hybrid as they are sometimes called. A gas powered car with a smallish battery to give additional traction at start and during low speed acceleration. Its a much simpler system than a plug-in, and it delivers much better mileage than a regular ICE car. You never have to plug in to recharge, so all that trouble goes.

Reply to  michel
August 13, 2024 12:50 am

I had a loan mild hybrid for several weeks while my normal ICE was a awaiting a part delayed by post lockdown supply chain problem. In urban driving it was really economical not quite so good on longer journeys.

If our government hadn’t banned them I’d quite happily change from ICE to Hybrid when the current transport is retired. As it is I’ll keep it going as long as possible.
The taxi of choice round here is the Toyota Prius which is usually a good indication of longevity and economy.

Reply to  michel
August 13, 2024 2:37 am

I have absolutely no problem with electric drive systems, they have some nice characteristics.

But a hybrid is still a fossil fuel powered car., and any pretence otherwise is just stupid.

Reply to  bnice2000
August 13, 2024 4:24 am

But then again there is nothing wrong with fossil fuel powered cars. Nor can EVs be considered any different, since most of the electricity used to charge them comes from coal, oil or gas.

And most of the electricity that doesn’t come directly from coal oil and gas comes indirectly from it (concrete and steel and rare earth metals are all the result of mining and smelting and transport all done with coal, oil and gas, without which you wouldn’t have hydroelectric dams, windmills or solar panels).

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 8:26 am

No mention of nuclear power generating electricity?

In 2023, nuclear power plants provided 19% of the total of annual electricity demand in the US. Meanwhile, all fossil fuel-powered power plants together provided only 60% of the annual electricity demand.
(https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 )

Reply to  bnice2000
August 13, 2024 6:21 am

Yes, of course. If you are older, don’t drive much over 50 miles in a typical day, live in the country and have your own driveway for charging, a plug-in hybrid may make sense too. You have none of the range anxiety and you’ll get great economy. The price is the added complexity of the sytem, though.

And as you say, these are still ICE cars.

observa
Reply to  Steve Case
August 12, 2024 8:43 pm

Probably OK for those with off-street parking charging and solar panels on their roof but with a sizeable lithium battery the insurers will have the last say. So that leaves petrol hybrids and that spells Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive with a modest NiMh battery to keep the insurance underwriters happy.

Bryan A
Reply to  observa
August 12, 2024 10:10 pm

BEVs may, one day, surpass/replace ICVs…when they’re better than ICVs
Better or at least equal to (aka)
Don’t self immolate
Can travel 350-500 miles on a charge
Can recharge in 5 minutes
Allow tires to last 60,000-80,000 miles
All the above and Cost under $30,000
And don’t increase insurance premiums

Idle Eric
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2024 4:42 am

Plus, the battery needs to be capable of lasting more than 20 years, ideally more than 30.

Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2024 4:46 am

So never then. 😆

James Snook
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2024 4:51 am

Approximately 8 Billion vehicle miles are driven PER DAY in the USA. The EV ‘revolution’ isn’t even scratching the surface.

Total electrification of all road vehicles this century is as likely as unicorn farming on the White House lawn.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  James Snook
August 13, 2024 8:58 am

Don’t give them any new ideas. I can see it now that cattle MUST be replaced with unicorns to solve the climate catastrophe.

Bryan A
Reply to  Steve Case
August 12, 2024 10:04 pm

Plug-in hybrids…gas goes away…your BEV goes 30 miles max between charges.

Idle Eric
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2024 4:45 am

So long as gas remains, they make an element of sense for most people, and the majority of cars around here travel less than 30 miles a day anyway.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Idle Eric
August 13, 2024 5:33 am

It’s higher in the US. The average is about 37 miles per day. That means charging twice a day. How fun.

Idle Eric
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
August 13, 2024 7:07 am

We’re talking about hybrids here, so 30 on electric, 7 on gas, and recharge at night.

I’m not saying they’re the answer for everyone, but for low to average mileage drivers, I think there’s potential.

Bryan A
Reply to  Idle Eric
August 13, 2024 9:44 pm

Not if gas is eliminated like democrats seem inclined to do by edict

Bryan A
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
August 13, 2024 9:43 pm

For some people that means stopping to recharge 1/2 way to work and again 1/2 way home at the end of the day.
And you’d never use it to travel to grandma’s house… It’d never make it over the hills and through the woods

Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2024 4:47 am

Battery charge goes away…your plug-in hybrid is now an underpowered piece of shit that can’t get out of its own way.

observa
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 5:34 am

Well not really because once the external charge is used up the car reverts to petrol hybrid mode. The killer over say a Toyota hybrid is the substantial lift in cost due to a larger lithium battery (why Toyota often used NiMh despite its weight penalty) as well as the external charging and battery management pushing them up near full BEV cost. Note here Toyota’s clever bulletproof Synergy Drive substitutes for a costly more fragile transmission keeping the overall hybrid package bang for buck. Lefties don’t do tradeoffs.

Bryan A
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 6:56 am

Truly a Gilded Golf cart

Reply to  Steve Case
August 13, 2024 4:13 am

Not interested in “plug in” anything. Not EVs and not “plug in” hybrids.

Plug in hybrids have undersized engines so they continue to rely upon being charged in order to deliver their promised power and range, leaving them in the same boat as EVs, with the need to deal with long recharge times.

Mild hybrids are the way to deliver performance AND gas mileage in vehicles that will actually be useful.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 5:41 am

It boils down to the extra cost and (if you are an AGW worrier) the amount of CO2 created during production of the vehicle. Most automakers in the US seem to be discounting hybrids to increase sales at the expense of ICEVs to increase their fleet mileage, so maintenance of two systems becomes the issue. Toyota Prius batteries run $2000 to $4500 installed.

observa
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 5:55 am

Here’s the tradeoffs-
Toyota 1:6:90 Rule Explains Why Hybrids are Better For the Environment Than Electric Cars (cartoq.com)
and in Oz money the cost penalty for a Toyota hybrid over the petrol equivalent is around $2500-$3000 which is what you’d pay to have a Level2 charger installed at home if you were going to step up to a PHEV. Then the fickles grid wants to control when you can charge at home and that spells solar duck curve time which isn’t much use for working commuters.

Tom Halla
August 12, 2024 6:28 pm

This is the silliest presidential initiative since Nixon’s War on Drugs and War on Cancer.
I really doubt the practicality of hydrogen, which lacks the density to be practical transport fuel, supplies aside.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 12, 2024 6:49 pm

Plus, hydrogen leaks through metal piping and causes metal to become brittle. Hydrogen as a primary fuel is not practicable.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Jim Masterson
August 12, 2024 6:55 pm

I can imagine engineering to fix brittleness and leaks, but even LH is insufficiently dense, and no one can fix that.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 12, 2024 8:40 pm

Yup!

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2024 3:42 am

when the brittleness and leaks are fixed- it won’t be cheap

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 13, 2024 4:50 am

Not to mention that hydrogen is an energy SINK, not an energy source. And the energy to produce it, even if you ignore all of hydrogen other “issues,” will STILL come, whether directly or indirectly, from fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is another tail-chasing exercise.

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 5:21 am

After reading this site for several years- and now realizing the problems with all energy systems- it’s amazing that any articles in most media promoting “green energy” almost never mention any problems with that system. It’s really embarrassing how bad journalism has become. If they’re going to write about energy systems- they should do their homework first.

roaddog
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 14, 2024 12:26 am

I suspect that reality doesn’t pay nearly as well as ideological fantasy.

John Hultquist
Reply to  Tom Halla
August 12, 2024 7:27 pm

T.H.,

I read the following in the post:
ORNL noted that hydrogen fuel cells (or any other hydrogen engine) contain a higher amount of energy per unit mass than a lithium battery or diesel fuel.”
I suppose someone that knows about such things will comment. I recall reading that hydrogen is not energy dense compared to diesel — thus, agreeing with you.
I’ll have to return and read new comments.

Tom Halla
Reply to  John Hultquist
August 12, 2024 7:49 pm

The issue is bulk. One needs to transport a certain size fuel tank, and even liquid hydrogen, requiring cryogenic storage, lacks sufficient density.
Elon Musk’s team at SpaceX made the decision to use liquid methane, mostly on tank size, or so I have seen reported.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2024 8:36 am

“Elon Musk’s team at SpaceX made the decision to use liquid methane, mostly on tank size . . .”

That, and the fact that methane is much easier to produce and store as an in-situ-produced propellant on Mars than is liquid hydrogen. The carbon necessary for production of methane on Mars is abundant in the atmosphere (as CO2) compared to the relative scarcity of water ice (assumed to exist under Mars surface and on the surface near the poles, and assumed be practically extractable) to supply the hydrogen for production of methane or LH2.

Tom Halla
Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 13, 2024 8:46 am

From what I have seen, it was just a goal of producing and operating reusable boosters to low earth orbit. Larger fuel tanks are more fragile.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2024 10:37 am

“Larger fuel tanks are more fragile.”

Well, not necessarily so, as demonstrated by LH2 tanks successfully flown on:
— the Saturn V second and third stages
— the Space Shuttle Transportation System (STS)
— the booster/first stages of the Delta IV and Delta IV Heavy
— the first stage and second stages of the H-II and its variants
— the first stage of the Ariane 5
— the core and ICPS stages of the current US Space Launch System.

Tom Halla
Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 13, 2024 10:57 am

All one time use systems, by the way.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2024 11:30 am

OK, if you really want to go there:

Glass is certainly more fragile than aluminum metal. Does that mean that glass windows should not be used in the cockpits of commercial airliners that are repeatedly flown, oh, four or more times each day, year after year?

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 14, 2024 7:49 am

“All one time use systems, by the way.”

Yes, exactly . . . their designs were optimized to be so.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 14, 2024 7:57 am

The largest fuel tanks to ever fly on ANY rocket launch system are the methane tanks on the SpaceX Starship Heavy Launch System. So far, four of those tanks have worked without failure during their ascent phase.

Oh, and those very same tanks have been optimized to survive re-entry for subsequent reuse.

Reply to  John Hultquist
August 12, 2024 8:11 pm

They aren’t considering the support systems like the hydrogen storage tank, only the cell itself…so basically they are incomplete and incorrect….. but could, you know, add say the lithium mine to the battery so that a liquid hydrogen plant can compete….

StephenP
Reply to  John Hultquist
August 13, 2024 1:32 am

IIRC it would take 16 deliveries of liquid hydrogen to a gas station to provide the same amount of energy as a single delivery of gas or diesel.
Maybe someone could correct me on this if I have got it wrong.

Reply to  StephenP
August 13, 2024 3:43 am

I think you are in the ballpark with those numbers.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  StephenP
August 13, 2024 9:06 am

A report in the UK Rail Engineer in Jan 2023 looking at Scotland’s intention to move to hydrogen trains found that if the hydrogen was not manufactured on site it would require 14 times as many road tankers of hydrogen than of diesel to fuel the same site.

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/scotlands-hydrogen-train-supporting-the-hydrogen-economy/

Reply to  StephenP
August 13, 2024 9:58 am

The heat of combustion of gaseous hydrogen in air is 286 kilojoules per mole (equivalent to 12.8 kJ/liter GH2). In comparison, the heat of combustion of gasoline in air is 45 kilojoules per gm with gasoline having an average density of about 710 gm/liter (yielding about 31,950 kJ/liter gasoline). So, 1 liter of gasoline provides about 2500 times the energy of one liter of gaseous hydrogen.

Since the density of LH2 at atmospheric pressure is about 850 times that of GH2, gasoline provides about 2500/850 = approximately 3 times the energy density of liquid hydrogen.

However, there is a difference in the maximum heat of combustion (at chemical stoichiometry) and what is practically realizable in real-world operating engines (there is a variation between the assumed higher-heating-value and the lower-heating-value of most fuels when combusted with air). Also, the degree of sub-cooling assumed for LH2 at its use conditions will make a difference in actual density assumed the above calculations.

As an independent check, the website at https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage states:
“On a volume basis, however, the situation is reversed; liquid hydrogen has a density of 8 MJ/L whereas gasoline has a density of 32 MJ/L, as shown in the figure comparing energy densities of fuels based on lower heating values.” That’s a 4:1 difference, not the 3:1 theoretical difference that I calculated above. Please note that I’ve attached the useful comparison chart from this reference.

Bottom line: I believe your recollection of 16 times the volume of LH2 to equal the energy content of a unit volume of gasoline is off quite a bit . . . it’s closer to 3-4 times.

LHV_of_Fuels
Reply to  StephenP
August 13, 2024 10:39 am

With, or without, considering LH2 boiloff?

roaddog
Reply to  StephenP
August 14, 2024 12:28 am

Think of the cost savings! The Big Book of Green Nonsense keeps growing and growing and growing.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  John Hultquist
August 13, 2024 5:44 am

They said “mass”, not size. Size matters.

Reply to  Tom Halla
August 13, 2024 9:15 am

We need more research on this type of engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_engine
/sarc

Dean S
August 12, 2024 6:54 pm

Stopped reading the article about self rotating engines when I came across this lil beauty,

“The engine concepts are based on the most recent electromagnetism theories so that the device can convert electricity into rotary power without any loss.”

Reply to  Dean S
August 12, 2024 8:15 pm

If the Democrats repeal the Laws of Thermodynamics, then these schemes will work perfectly.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  pillageidiot
August 13, 2024 9:02 am

Promoting the climate catastrophe was enabled by Democrats repealing the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Reply to  pillageidiot
August 13, 2024 9:09 am

repeal the Laws of Thermodynamics

I’m just waiting for that legislation to be proposed.

roaddog
Reply to  pillageidiot
August 14, 2024 12:30 am

At least as well as the Inflation Reduction Act.

Reply to  Dean S
August 12, 2024 10:24 pm

Yes it is utter nonsense. Not that near lossless electric motors are especially hard to design, ours was 98.4% efficient, but the garble in that article is incredible (literally). I looked at another article on that site and it was just as bad. I suspect ChatGPT may be involved. For that matter the ‘nitrogen’ engine linked to in the article is a hydrogen engine.

MJB
Reply to  Dean S
August 13, 2024 5:31 am

I assumed the self-rotating engine article was going to have a punchline at the end that said it was just talking about normal electric engines as I could not detect any difference amidst the gobbledygook writing style. As in “Good news, the miracle engine we just described already exists and is in all EVs”, but sadly it did not. The other suggestion that it was Large Language Model derived seems quite plausible.

August 12, 2024 7:08 pm

and a new self-rotating engine

The linked article is gibberish.It is the sort of artificial article that AI could generate.

Dave Yaussy
Reply to  RickWill
August 13, 2024 5:41 am

Thanks. I thought I was the only one who had no idea what they were referring to with a “self-rotating engine”

Reply to  Dave Yaussy
August 13, 2024 4:15 pm

I thought it had to do with a shaft and certain politicians rotating …

heme212
August 12, 2024 7:21 pm

“Or is there some other reason that the Biden Administration, for which Vice President Harris has been a major spokesperson for the battery-electric school bus, has placed all of its bets on a technology controlled so heavily by China?”

to ask is to know. it’s not like they have been shuttering cobalt mines in MN or omething

August 12, 2024 7:58 pm

From the above article’s third paragraph:
“. . . including a wide variety of hydrogen-powered engines and a new self-rotating engine– that are emerging on the world scene.”

Well, I checked on the embedded link for that claim of a new “self-rotating” engine and here is what is claimed in the original link (https://www.ecoticias.com/en/no-fuel-engine-battery-power/5231/ ) and in a directly related link (https://www.ecoticias.com/en/engine-omega-1-combustion/5315/ ), and yes, the two links are bi-polar in their claims:

— from the title at the first link: “. . . an engine with no gasoline: It rotates by itself and does this with the battery.” Now I’m assuming that’s just poor English and not be interpreted as meaning that the new engine and its battery are rotating as a unit inside the moving vehicle, but who knows really? 😉

— “Hawking predicted this fuel, and they’ve created the first engine: It’s not electric, not hydrogen, not gasoline.” Hmmm . . . let’s see, it’s not purely electric (using a “fuel”) but still needs a battery . . . got it! And best I can establish the article’s author(s) are attempting to say that (Steven) Hawking predicted the presence of fuel that is not even mentioned further in the article . . . ROTFLMAO!!!

— From the first link: “This new engine does not have any conventional fuel system, and it purely works on battery power for its rotational and functional movement.” The claim “purely works on battery power for its . . . movement” is falsified by the article’s subsequent statements and by the paragraph immediately below. The articles suffers from lack of an editor as much as they do from lack of science and engineering.

—From the second link: How the Omega 1 engine redefines combustion principles and design
The Omega 1 engine functions according to a principle that substantially diverges from conventional piston engines and Wankel rotaries. Its design incorporates a pair of counter-rotating “paddle rotors,” which deal with the four-stroke combustion cycle in a rather unconventional manner. Each set of rotors comprises an intake and compression rotor, and the other set includes a combustion and exhaust rotor.”

— Most telling: “Additionally, the engine design enables it to operate on a range of combustible fuels other than gasoline, such as hydrogen, making near-zero emissions operational.” (my bold emphasis added) So, this new engine can use gasoline and/or hydrogen . . . except when it doesn’t and runs on a different fuel that supplies combustion energy by burning that fuel with air (well, perhaps except for “Hawking fuel” . . . who knows?). Welcome world to yet another ICE that operates on gasoline, or diesel/diesel-equivalent, or hydrogen . . . you know, those fuels available right now for fueling cars and trucks out on the road.

“Although it is still a primitive prototype and needs further evolution and verification in natural conditions, the claimed innovative thinking and potential of the Omega 1 indicate that the internal combustion engine might still have a long future ahead of it.” Ahhh, there we have it: direct confirmation that the engine is indeed an ICE variant.

— Even this most favorably-biased article has this conclusion: “Only the years to come will tell if this pistonless marvel stands its promise and has found its rightful place within the dynamic of new generation boats and ships’ propulsive systems.” Put it on the list, right next to compact, portable fusion reactors.

Reading between the lines of the this referenced blurb, one find out this new “self-rotating” engine is nothing more than:
(a) an internal combustion engine with intake, combustion and exhaust “paddles”, mimicking the piston-less Wankel rotary engine, with
(b) the claimed innovative feature of “skip fire” that reduces the rate of power cycles per revolution at cruising rpms, this “innovation” being nothing more than a re-application of the technique of “Active Fuel Management (AFM), otherwise known as Cylinder Deactivation, is a General Motors engine technology that shuts down half of the engine’s cylinders in light driving conditions to improve fuel economy” (see https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/general-motors-propulsion-technology/general-motors-active-fuel-management-cylinder-deactivation-technology/ ), first used in a GM production car as the trouble-prone L62 V-8-6-4 engine in the 1981 Cadillac Eldorado (ref: https://drives.today/articles/1031/history/first-production-car-with-cylinder-deactivation-1981-cadillac-eldorado.html )

There is absolutely no reason given for describing the new engine as “self-rotating” . . . not that I really expected to see such as anything other than a marketing gimmick. A regular piston ICE or Wankel ICE or gas turbine ICE are all equally qualified—for what the referenced article presents— to be described a “self-rotating”.

roaddog
Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 14, 2024 12:37 am

Ghost-written by Kackling Kamala?

August 12, 2024 8:04 pm

Electric vehicles seem OK, quiet, great acceleration….it’s the batteries that suck…heavy…hard on roads….don’t hold enough energy to go many miles, summer AC or winter heat draw too much power…easily damaged in a minor accident, only last a few years, expensive to replace. Result, for the average person, EV is probably the third best choice behind gasoline and hybrid even with receiving a 10% subsidy and penalties on ICE. And the public has figured it out…

Curious George
Reply to  DMacKenzie
August 13, 2024 8:01 am

The batteries suck .. is anybody working on ethanol-powered fuel cell?

observa
August 12, 2024 8:37 pm

In private enterprise never ever hitch your star to Gummint picking winners-
‘Fed up’: Melbourne to ditch hire e-scooters (msn.com)

August 12, 2024 8:49 pm

multiple companies were already at work to develop alternatives to a vehicle that has to be recharged nearly every day”
Umm, didn’t we do that over a century ago?

August 12, 2024 10:00 pm

Not a single comment yet on Biden bankrupting the country with interest payments, so I’ll make one.

When 76% of your income goes to pay interest on a debt, you are already in a financial crisis. Thanks a lot Brandon. Now we know why the cut and run occurred.

Kamala has already stated her intentions to spend trillions more, so you already know where that will come from. Not convinced that driving EV’s will increase Fed tax revenues, so there must be a different tax plan democrats aren’t talking about that will do that.

By the way, it was Economist E.J. Antoni post that showed, based on the Fed’s June numbers, that the interest on the US national debt is the equivalent of 76% of all personal income taxes collected by the government.

https://x.com/RealEJAntoni/status/1811462798171639965

Reply to  doonman
August 13, 2024 3:53 am

I think the Biden-Harris latest proposed budget is aiming to increase taxes by about five TRILLION dollars. They also want to cancel the Trump tax cuts which will also increase taxes.

Democrats have no concept of being fiscally responsible. They just push the envelope until the economy collapses because the Democrats are all about spending money to enhance their political power. They spend “other people’s money” until there isn’t any left to spend.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2024 9:22 am

It’s called buying votes.

Bryan A
Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2024 9:52 pm

Harris is “Reported” as leading by leftist media outlets using Democrat collected polls.
Were Harris to win you can kiss the Constitution and Bill of Rights goodbye. Welcome to the Idiocracy

Simon
Reply to  Bryan A
August 13, 2024 11:21 pm

“Were Harris to win you can kiss the Constitution and Bill of Rights goodbye.
And you base this on? Do you think she might try to subvert democracy? Wouldn’t that be an irony?

“Harris is “Reported” as leading by leftist media outlets using Democrat collected polls.”
See this is why when Trump loses his team run around yelling that the election was stolen from them. It’s not because it was, it is because they actually have no idea about the reality of the situation is. So when he says it’s been stolen it all makes sense.

If you want the whole picture you need to read from a range of sources.

Reply to  Simon
August 13, 2024 10:18 pm

Interesting, don’t you think, that the leading presidential candidate of a major American political party received zero votes in all 2024 democrat primaries for that position, has already selected a running mate that received no votes, has no political platform that she is running on other than being black and a woman and has not been nominated by the party as their candidate of choice.

Simon
Reply to  doonman
August 13, 2024 11:20 pm

I think politics is a strange business. I think Trump has now frustrated such a large chunk of the population with his silly nonsense (adored by some I know) that when another option came along, they have put aside stuff about her and begun to support her. The question is how long will it last? It could all fall over tomorrow. There is no doubt Trump is worried though. If she can foot it with him in the debates I think she has a better than even chance of winning.

roaddog
Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2024 12:43 am

“If”

Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2024 6:19 am

I knew something smelled fishy in here — simon the marxist popped up out of the slime.

Simon
Reply to  karlomonte
August 14, 2024 12:58 pm

Oh look, the racist, red neck, right wing, ranter is here.

What joy he always brings…..

roaddog
Reply to  doonman
August 14, 2024 12:43 am

Democracy by liberal Democrats rivals Russia and Venezuela.

Simon
Reply to  roaddog
August 14, 2024 1:45 am

As opposed to democracy by Trump that rivals tyrants like Putin.

Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2024 6:43 am

rivals tyrants like Putin

How so? Specific examples please. Something other than “he disagreed with the election results” – we’ve been down that path already.

Simon
Reply to  Tony_G
August 14, 2024 12:57 pm

““A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,””
That’s pretty bad and tyrant like I would have thought. Lie about the election being stolen then use that as an excuse change the law and the constitution. Banana Republic anyone?

Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2024 1:48 pm

use that as an excuse change the law

What law did he change?

Pretty weak if that’s all you can come up with. He was in office 4 years.

Simon
Reply to  Tony_G
August 14, 2024 2:33 pm

You can read. He was suggesting that his bogus stolen election gave him the right to do these things.
And he tried to extort an alley to get dirt on a political opponent. Pretty shitty huh? Want more?

Reply to  Simon
August 14, 2024 2:47 pm

He was suggesting

Again, what law did he change?

And he tried to extort

Again, what law did he change? What order did he give?

Pretty shitty huh?

Maybe, but not tyrannical. Words have meanings:

Tyrant:
* an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution
* a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally
— Merriam Webster

* a ruler who has unlimited power over other people, and uses it unfairly and cruelly
— Cambridge Dictionary

“gave him the right to”

BUT HE DIDN’T

Want more?

How about something that actually fits the definition?

Simon
Reply to  Tony_G
August 14, 2024 3:45 pm

“an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution”
It’s what this man wants to be. He admires dictators. He loves their unrestrained power. It turns him on. But maybe you are right…. he is just a wannabe dictator, because thankfully (so far) the checks and balances of US law has kept him from fulfilling his dream.

Reply to  Simon
August 15, 2024 6:54 am

I recall that in our previous conversation about this, you couldn’t come up with anything not election related either. You would think that with 4 years in office, you would have other examples. You know, something like having reporters prosecuted – that’s rather tyrant-like, wouldn’t you say?

Simon
Reply to  Tony_G
August 15, 2024 12:42 pm

His own VP called him Hitler like. You would think that would be enough to convince most people the guy is a wannabe dictator. But nope. And doesn’t it frighten you that a huge number of people who have worked with him now have nothing good to day about him. Kelly, Milly, Pence, Tillerson, Bolton, Barr…. the list goes on. They all say after working with him, he is unfit for office.

Reply to  Simon
August 15, 2024 3:00 pm

His own VP called him Hitler like.

And then indicated that after seeing him perform in office, he had revised his opinion.

You would think that would be enough to convince most people the guy is a wannabe dictator. But nope.

Nope is right – I don’t let other people calling someone names dictate my opinions. I think for myself. You might want to try it.

And doesn’t it frighten you that a huge number of people who have worked with him now have nothing good to day about him.

Not at all. I can find people who have plenty of good to say about him. You’re making an argument that could be made about almost anyone, especially a prominent CEO, and ESPECIALLY a controversial person. And being “good to work with” has absolutely nothing to do with being a tyrant.

Opinion and emotion – that’s all you have.

And now that you have managed to squirm away from the actual subject, as you are so prone to do, let’s get back to it:

Do you have ANY example of any ACTUAL tyrannical or dictatorial act by Trump? FOUR YEARS, Simon. I would think that even a “wannabe” tyrant would have given you PLENTY of material to work with.

Did he prosecute any reporters? Did he ignore SCOTUS rulings and brag about it? Those both seem at least a little tyrannical. I remember Presidents doing both of those, but not Trump.

Simon
Reply to  Tony_G
August 15, 2024 4:25 pm

“Not at all. I can find people who have plenty of good to say about him. You’re making an argument that could be made about almost anyone, especially a prominent CEO, and ESPECIALLY a controversial person.”
Fair enough. Name me a prominent US president who has ever had the number of people publicly state they are not just bad but unfit for office? The truth is there is no one who comes even close. Truth is Trump is in a league of incompetence all on his own. And when you consider he says he hires the best people, then it is even more telling that they think he is nothing more than a conman on one hand and an olympic level fool on the other. When you actually analize it, it is pretty much only the hardline “deplorables” who forgive him his major flaws. That is telling.

And I have given you examples of Trump wanting to move to a dictator. Another one is he has hinted that he will alter the law so he can stay past his two terms.
And just this week he has been praising the dictator Orban for his strength. And his attitude to the press in so dictatorial. Saying they are the “enemy of the people.” Word for word, straight out of the dictators handbook page 1. Face it, he would be a dictator tomorrow if he could.

Reply to  Simon
August 16, 2024 7:00 am

And yet again you fail to produce any actual tyrannical ACTION, from four years of his time in office. You know, like pushing action to impose unconstitutional rules on one of the three coequal branches of government.

And his attitude to the press in so dictatorial. Saying they are the “enemy of the people.”

Expressing an opinion is tyrannical now? What action did he take against the press?

Face it, he would be a dictator tomorrow if he could.

He had four years in office and yet you can produce no example of actual tyrannical action from all of that time. If he really were as you claim, it would be incredibly easy to do so. Your position is purely emotional driven by mainstream reporting, and not based on anything he actually did. Not only have you not proven your case, you have shown it to be meritless. Case dismissed.

Simon
Reply to  Tony_G
August 16, 2024 2:04 pm

Yawn…..

August 12, 2024 11:16 pm

The link on the KDH engine has the following:
The maximum power of this kind of engine is 4 kW (approximately 74 horsepower) …

If it can get 74 hp out of 4 kw, it’s got my vote.

Reply to  Mike McMillan
August 13, 2024 8:04 am

Perhaps they meant to say that the output power of this engine is 4 kW (equivalent to about 5.3 hp) given the equivalent of 74 hp of input power, reflecting a conversion efficiency of about 7%.

In other words, the KDH engine makes a very efficient heat source. 😊

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Mike McMillan
August 13, 2024 9:25 am

Must be new math.
1+1=2… how do you feel about that.
But, getting a correct answer to a math problem has been declared as racist. All a student needs to know is how it works, not how to prove they know how it works by getting correct answers.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
August 13, 2024 10:52 am

Correction note here:
“All a student needs to know feel is how it works, not how to prove they know how it works by getting correct answers.”

/sarc

Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 13, 2024 12:52 pm

NOT /sarc, TYS

Colin Belshaw
August 13, 2024 2:11 am

I’m surprised at the suggestion that hydrogen provides a way forward – it surely doesn’t.
To produce 1 tonne of hydrogen through the electrolysis of water requires 49MWh of electricity and, according to GE, the burning of 1 tonne of hydrogen will generate 12.86MWh. Therefore . . . ENERGY INVESTED is 3.8x GREATER than ENERGY RETURNED, which, rationally . . . is no good to man or beast.
And for this to have any twisted credibility in our strange virtue-signalling world, the electrical supply for the electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen would obviously have to come from “green” wind and solar generating facilities.
But over the last 12 months in the UK, wind and solar combined generation provided 10.37GW, this from a wind and solar combined installed capacity of 45GW . . . which was 23% of installed capacity – the “load factor.”
So, if you want to deliver 1GW of electricity from wind and solar generating facilities, with a load factor of 23%, those facilities will have to have an installed capacity of 4.35GW – an “overbuild factor” of 4.35.
In summary:
To make hydrogen by electrolysis requires 3.8x the energy that will be gained from using that hydrogen, and to generate the electricity needed for that electrolysis, the installed capacity of wind and solar generating facilities will have to be 4.35x greater than the electricity actually needed.
The picture I therefore get is: generating electricity through wind and solar, and using that electricity to make hydrogen . . . would be an exercise of downright idiotic profligacy, pure and simple.

gezza1298
August 13, 2024 3:42 am

Hydrogen is just as much a fantasy as that battery cars will become the norm. The Holy Grail for engines is a clean two stroke but the research on normal engines has stalled while the battery lunacy has taken over.

roaddog
Reply to  gezza1298
August 14, 2024 12:45 am

Toyota is actually doing a lot of work on future ICE products.

August 13, 2024 4:02 am

All these various issues with trying to do away with internal combustion engines has not discouraged the car manufacturers from building bigger and more powerful internal combustion engines.

The Chevrolet Corvett is supposedly getting a new internal combustion engine that produces over 1,000 horsepower.

One manufacturer is producing a six-cylinder engine that produces over 400 horsepower, and another says they have an internal combustion engine that produces 400 horseppower and only weighs about 80 pounds.

Automobile companies have not given up on internal combustion engines.

I watch a lot of programs on the Motor Trend channel which deals mainly with rebuilding old internal combusion engine cars. Over the years I have seen just one program on this channel that delt with an electric vehicle. Motor Trend channel and the people who watch it are just not interested in electric vehicles.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 13, 2024 8:09 am

“. . . another says they have an internal combustion engine that produces 400 horseppower and only weighs about 80 pounds.”

Yeah, that’s the one said to be powering the DoD saucers flying out of Area 51 . . . or so I’ve heard.

And, oh BTW, it reportedly uses only water as its fuel.

August 13, 2024 4:08 am

EVs are worse-than-useless.

And so is Hydrogen, which is an energy sink, not an energy source.

And all of this tail-chasing is in the pursuit of non-solutions to imaginary problems.

Reply to  AGW is Not Science
August 13, 2024 8:12 am

I understand that there’s plenty of free hydrogen available on the Sun. I’m sure Elon Musk is looking at a way to get it back to Earth by 2050 to save the planet.

c1ue
August 13, 2024 4:44 am

More talk about fuel cells.
Doesn’t anyone wonder why fuel cells aren’t ubiquitous – since the first fuel cell cars literally came out more than 20 years ago? Honda FCX etc
Oh right: inefficient, expensive, no infrastructure.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  c1ue
August 13, 2024 5:54 am

According to an article by the DOE about a year ago, they only last a maximum of 75,000 miles. I change my spark plugs every 100,000 miles, they replace their “engine” every 75,000.

Reply to  c1ue
August 13, 2024 10:03 am

The “Hydrogen Highway” for California in was initiated in April 2004 by Executive Order (EO) S-07-04 under Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger with the purpose of promoting hydrogen refueling stations in California.
In 2013 Governor Brown signed AB 8, a bill to fund $20 million a year for up to 100 stations.

20 years later, there are 51 hydrogen refueling stations in California, but some are not in use because there is no demand. All are closed overnight.

You get your choice of The 2024 Toyota Mirai or the 2024 Hyundai Nexo to buy.

That’s it. But you can’t drive to Las Vegas or Northern California for the weekend.

Reply to  doonman
August 13, 2024 11:08 am

MSRP for a 2024 Toyota Mirai XLE 4dr Sedan, including destination charge, about $50,190, but add sales taxes and vehicle registration/license fees onto that.

Expected MSRP of the new 2024 Hyundai NEXO is about $62,000, with the same add-on deltas before you can drive it off the lot.

It’s a good question if either car has the range necessary to get from one LH2 filling station to another . . . and that’s within the state of California, not even considering driving outside of California.

Meanwhile, the MSRP for a 2024 Toyota Prius hybrid, with estimated MPG of 57 city/56 highway, starts at $27,950.

mleskovarsocalrrcom
August 13, 2024 8:03 am

If you must have an EV and have consistent short runs and occasional extended (beyond battery range) I think a range extender (as they are called) is the way to go. You can keep the battery size small (100 miles worth) and not have range anxiety. The ‘extender’ is a small motor that runs a generator capable of recharging the battery on the fly. BMW uses this principal in one of their cars. Since these motors run at one speed they can be made to be super emission free and run on just about any fuel. This is where exotic engines like the Libraloto come into play as they are best when tuned to one speed optimizing power and reducing emissions.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  mleskovarsocalrrcom
August 13, 2024 9:27 am

Oh. A version of the diesel-electric.

Eric Schollar
August 13, 2024 8:25 am

I’m happy with my ICE 2005 2.4L Camry with 350,000 km on the clock and no major repair work. No intention of ever changing it, especially for an EV, irrespective of whatever the US and its Western satraps say. If Trump wins, there will be plenty of petrol and if he doesn’t, there’s always BRICS.

August 13, 2024 9:19 am

“touted a liquid nitrogen engine”

I have a couple problems with this:
* how much energy does it take to liquefy the nitrogen vs. how much energy do you get back?
* how do you KEEP it liquefied once in the vehicle, and how much energy does it take to do so?

This doesn’t seem to be at all a viable idea

August 13, 2024 10:25 am

“Hydrogen-powered buses could likely be much more quickly delivered, likely cost less to purchase, and might be much more reliable on a day-to-day basis.” that’s a lot of ifs buts and maybes all in one sentence.

roaddog
August 14, 2024 12:49 am

“Who doesn’t love a broken school bus?” – adapted from Hyena Harris