Can ‘clean energy’ schemes get any crazier? 

Materials, costs and survivability for wind turbines on massive floating platforms defy reality

Paul Driessen

The US Interior Department’s Bureau of Ocean Energy Management recently designated two Wind Energy Areas in deepwater areas off the Oregon coast. BOEM is also reviewing offshore wind energy development options for the Gulf of Maine, Central Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico, and maybe Great Lakes.

They’re part of Team Biden’s plan to deploy 30,000 megawatts of offshore wind energy capacity by 2030 and 15,000 MW of floating offshore wind energy capacity by 2035. Capacity is what the turbines could generate, when the wind is blowing at optimal speeds, perhaps 30-40% of the year.

30,000 MW is what 2,500 12-MW turbines could generate. It’s enough to meet New York State’s current peak electricity needs on a hot summer day. Add the electricity required to replace gasoline cars and natural gas furnaces and stoves, meet surging AI, data center and streaming video demands, and charge grid-scale backup batteries – and New York alone would likely need 10,000 12-MW offshore turbines.

Meeting the soaring electricity needs of all US states would require hundreds of thousands more.

BOEM nevertheless insists that “Offshore wind is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to build a new clean energy industry, tackle the climate crisis, and create good-paying jobs, while ensuring economic opportunities for all communities.”

Note to be outdone in baseless puffery, the Department of Energy extols the Administration’s goal of “decarbonizing” the entire US electric grid by 2035 and says “offshore wind is especially well-suited” for generating “clean energy.” Two-thirds of all US offshore wind potential, it says, exists over ocean areas so deep that turbines must be mounted on floating platforms anchored to the seafloor by mooring lines tied to suction piles sunk into bottom sediments.

DOE even claims it will somehow reduce the cost of floating deepwater wind energy to $45 per megawatt-hour by 2035. (That’s 45¢ per kilowatt-hour, triple what most Americans now pay.) To buttress its claims, DOE presents maps, artist’s renderings and images of floating turbine arrays.

It’s almost as though these government officials actually believe they can solve the alleged climate crisis by simply issuing proclamations, regulations, drawings, press releases and subsidies – and Voila!

Mines open, raw materials materialize, and millions of wind turbines, billions of solar panels, billions of vehicle and grid-scale batteries, millions of miles of transmission lines, millions of transformers and other technologies get manufactured and installed – affordably and with no fossil fuels, greenhouse gas emissions, toxic air and water pollutants, child and slave labor, or other evils (all at minimal cost), while endangered species and other environmental conflicts disappear (or are relegated to irrelevance) …

and cornucopias of clean, renewable, reliable, affordable electricity are rapidly generated worldwide.

It’s impolite to question fervently held beliefs in fossil-fuel-free utopias. However, a little reality is urgently needed before activists and bureaucrats take us any further down this primrose path.

12-MW offshore turbines are 850 feet tall, carry three 350-foot-long blades, and weigh thousands of tons. To date, few have been installed anywhere, none have been subjected to major hurricanes, and none have been mounted on deepwater floating platforms. Indeed, no such platform-mounted turbines exist outside the realm of concepts and ten-foot models in wind tunnels and test tanks.

The Kincardine floating turbines in the North Sea southeast of Aberdeen, Scotland are much smaller, and the strongest wind gusts recorded there were in the 83–123 mph range. Sustained wind speeds for category 3-5 hurricanes range from 111 to 157 mph and greater. Some of the worst US landfalling hurricanes reached 126 mph (Katrina, 2003) to 167 mph (Andrew, 1997). The strongest winds ever off the Oregon coast exceeded 100 mph (1962 and 1995).

Subsurface and semisubmersible structures for the smaller 2.0–9.5-MW deepwater turbines weigh 2,000 to 8,000 tons. New semisubmersible platforms for deepwater oil production can be over 30,000 tons and cost a billion dollars or more. Yet even they are probably not large enough for the monstrous 15-MW beasts that the Biden Administration, CNN and others are extolling.

Says CNN: “The first, full-sized floating offshore wind turbine in the United States will tower 850 feet above the waves in the Gulf of Maine…. The gigantic machine, with 774-foot diameter blades and tethered to the seabed with thick metal cables, is planned to be put into the water” by 2030.

It’s almost impossible to conceive of the amounts of steel and other raw materials that would be needed for each of these gigantic turbines and support systems; the amounts of ore that would have to be extracted to obtain those materials; the fossil fuels required to mine and process the ores, manufacture the turbines, blades and support systems, and transport and install them; the cost to build each of them.

Based on average deposits being mined today, the 110,000 tons of copper required for 30,000 MW of offshore turbine alone would require removing some 65,000,000 tons of ore and overlying rock. That doesn’t include copper for marine cables, transmission lines, transformers and other equipment – or the other metals and minerals.

It is inconceivable that these deepwater wind turbine systems could ever recoup all the energy and costs – or offset all the greenhouse gas emissions – involved in building them, no matter how many years they generate electricity. Indeed, those years may be very short, due to violent storms and constant salt spray. 

It’s equally inconceivable that they could survive major storms. As a deepwater oil production expert explained, the major unexamined issue is the enormous dynamic loads the mooring systems impart on support structures and turbines.

Floating offshore structures are designed to move on their mooring systems, to adjust for wind and waves. But if 115–160 mph winds hit the structures and equipment on their decks, they can be pushed to the limits of survivability. That’s what happened to the Mars TLP rig during Hurricane Katrina.

Some of its mooring lines (tethers) failed, the entire rig was pushed over onto its side, and the 200-foot-tall derrick snapped off and sank. Subsequent analysis found it was not the high winds that caused the failure, but the total structure’s return motion – its restorative forces or “whiplash” – as the wind speeds suddenly dropped from 126 mph, with gusts of 200 mph, to 15 mph.

Now picture 850-foot-tall turbines, with huge blades designed to catch the breezes, atop enormous semisubmersible platforms, being caught in a hurricane or other fierce storm; being pushed over further and further; until wind speeds suddenly plummet, and the turbines whiplash violently – and snap off.

That Shell Oil, among the world’s most experienced offshore oil developers, has dropped out of deepwater wind projects should say a lot about the viability of the far-fetched deepwater schemes Team Biden is promoting, to forcibly transform America’s energy and economic system.

That some companies are still in the game underscores how their risks are being forcibly subsidized and underwritten by taxpayers and consumers, who are being dragooned into these schemes by politicians and bureaucrats who likewise have no real skin in the game. Their leasing bids are plummeting, their electricity price demands soaring.

It’s time to say, “Enough! We’re going to keep our nuclear and fossil fuel energy, until you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your alternatives provide equally abundant, reliable, affordable energy.”

Paul Driessen is senior policy advisor to the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org)  and author of books and articles on energy, environmental, climate and human rights issues.

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Ronald Stein
April 1, 2024 10:03 am

Just for intermittent electricity ?

 

Data centers, streaming video, hospitals, airports, military, and national security need continuous, uninterruptable electricity.

 

World leaders and policymakers are oblivious to the fact that without crude oil there would be no electricity, as all generation of electricity is only possible with the parts made from the oil derivatives manufactured from crude oil for continuous and uninterruptible electricity being generated from coal, natural gas, nuclear, and hydroelectric power plants, and occasionally generated electricity from weather dependent wind turbines and solar panels.

 

Today, fossil fuels are the basis of more than 6,000 products that did not exist 200 years ago that are all made from the oil derivatives manufactured from crude oil that are now demanded by society for supporting modern lifestyles.

 

The following infrastructures were not around a few short centuries ago, because they all need components and parts made from fossil fuels that were NOT available in the pre-1800’s.

o  Transportation

o  Hospitals

o  Medical equipment

o  Appliances

o  Heating and ventilating

o  Electronics

o  Telecommunications

o  Communications systems

o  Airports that accommodate the 20,000 commercial aircraft, and more than 50,000 military aircraft

o  Shipping terminals that accommodate 50,000 merchant ships

o  Space exploration programs

 

World leaders are not cognizant enough to know that wind turbines and solar panels only generate occasional electricity but cannot manufacture any products of those 6,000 products for humanity. 

Reply to  Ronald Stein
April 1, 2024 10:39 am

Why is it that you and many others of the WUWT commentariat keep saying the same things over and over again? Maybe there is a continuous stream of new readers that are completely oblivious of facts that have been commonly broadcast or maybe not. There are certainly ignorant sufferers of climate anxiety but are they likely to be wandering about WUWT in an effort to find information that will change their minds?

The WUWT commentariat needs, on an individual basis, to search for and discover the realities of “renewable” energy that haven’t received extensive coverage here. Apparently for everyone there are local examples of the fallacies and misapplications of pseudo-science that are producing what will soon be an economic catastrophe. How about bringing these things to light instead of constant repetition of the same things.

Denis
Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 11:20 am

Perhaps General, the WUWT commentariate keeps saying the same thing because the climate hysterics among us keep saying the same thing irregardless of easily obtainable facts to the contrary.

Reply to  Denis
April 1, 2024 2:53 pm

Indisputable logic!

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 6:25 pm

Indisputable whinge.!

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 2:29 pm

Just asking, are you a closet AIM?

Reply to  Gunga Din
April 1, 2024 3:19 pm

No, but he has a big whine closet !

Reply to  bnice2000
April 1, 2024 6:52 pm

A person with your health issues needs real sympathy. Cancer of the personality is a serious affliction.

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 8:53 pm

And a whinge closet too. !! Hilarious.

Cancer of the personality is a serious affliction.”

Been diagnose recently, have you !

antigtiff
Reply to  general custer
April 2, 2024 9:26 am

general….your last battle….wha’happened?…your last stand?

Reply to  Gunga Din
April 1, 2024 6:27 pm

He flies a big, red flag.

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 6:27 pm

WUWT commentariat

Better dead than red…comrade.

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 11:22 pm

Why is it that you and many others of the WUWT commentariat keep saying the same things over and over again?

Because it deserves repeating until the far-left gets it into their stupid heads.

Reply to  Redge
April 2, 2024 4:12 am

“…..until the far-left gets it into their stupid heads.”

Good luck with that.

Reply to  general custer
April 2, 2024 4:10 am

The one ‘Reality’ that almost everyone misses entirely is the workforce required to achieve everything necessary to reach all this wondrous ‘decarbonisation’.

A report recently written by Michael Kelly, the inaugural Prince Philip Professor of Technology at the University of Cambridge, Fellow of the Royal Society and of the Royal Academy of Engineering exposed this a few years ago, and nothing has changed since.

In the UK, at least, we have one third of the skilled workforce to conduct all the changes required by trained engineers, builders, technicians etc.and our education and training system is not geared up to provide more, and won’t be for many years even assuming changes are made now.

A traditional solution to this would to attract immigrant workers from the continent. The problem here though is, Europe is also short of their own labour to achieve their decarbonisation goals.

The UK’s usual fallback solution (and it’s been done many times before) is to announce to the public, with great fanfare, a job creation scheme where they will launch vocational training at local tech. colleges. Lots of votes in that particular scam.

The routine is, a whole bunch of youngsters are recruited to train up as technicians at local colleges. They recognise an opportunity so rush out and recruit a few untrained mates, start a business to do the rudimentary work like home insulation and perhaps even installing Heat Pumps.

We have seen it all before with the 1970’s double glazing scam, the 1990’s cavity wall insulation scam and the 2010’s domestic Solar Arrays (as they were grandly called) and it all ends with the same result. Thousands of householders spending lots of money to wind up with lots of problems and innumerable Cowboy business suddenly going bust because, well, that’s what Cowboy businesses do. Guarantees are worthless, even if underwritten by the government because the installation was substandard and of course, the government won’t cover that. Caveat emptor.

It takes years for this to manifest itself as an abject failure and the MSM will be recruited by government to tidy up the loose ends with recognition of the phenomenon, a few cases won in court, and then nothing. It’s all forgotten about.

We already have a shortage of STEM qualified individuals who will be required to deal with the enormous demands of the commercial wind and solar industry. Of course universities will suddenly take a great deal of interest in STEM subjects instead of Phd’s in Macramé or flower arranging.

Evidence of all this?

My middle aged son landed a job to monitor small scale wind turbines remotely from home. A laptop in his living room. He was a failed musician, dropped out his college course as an electrician, but excelled as a short order cook in a sandwich bar. He now believes he knows everything there is to know about wind turbines and is, naturally, an passionate advocate for the cause of climate change.

I hasten to add I had no influence on his formative years whatsoever.

These are the rocks the climate scam will perish on, not the theory or counter theory of whether or not CO2 causes warming, it will be the practicalities of implementing the solutions to it.

bobclose
Reply to  HotScot
April 2, 2024 6:38 am

No doubt you are correct in your analysis HotScot of what will cause the climate scam to fail or be exposed to the public. However, as a scientist I think it’s important for the climate facts about the inability of CO2 from any source to cause any significant global warming, in a natural system that is modulated principally by water vapour or clouds.
Atmospheric physics is understood well enough to know that the IPCC’s principal advocacy for climate sensitivity-ECS >2C is nonsense, as CO2 >400ppm is constrained by its IR absorption capability, now down to ~10%, so cannot provide support for AGW. Given CO2 is the food of all plant life on Earth, we need as much as we can get of this natural fertilizer, so any attempt to constrain CO2 growth by decarbonization of a nation’s economy, is not only very costly it is also incredibly stupid- an act of ignorant socialist vandalism. That is what the environmental climate activists have led us to with the AGW scam.
As soon as the public realize that they have been conned by the green planet do-gooders, as their lifestyles are curtailed by the enormous personal costs of the failed energy transition, they will vote out those responsible for implementing these myopic policies.

Bryan A
Reply to  general custer
April 2, 2024 6:51 am

It’s almost as if You already knew what Ronald was going to say. If that’s the case simply move onto the next comment. Almost everyone deserves a say. Even if it’s the same statement.
Unless they start being A$$holistic about it

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  general custer
April 2, 2024 9:53 am

I consider that a valid comment worthy of consideration. They repeat their rhetoric and then the others repeat theirs and no progress is made in either direction.

michael hart
Reply to  general custer
April 2, 2024 10:42 am

“The WUWT commentariat needs, on an individual basis, to search for and discover the realities of “renewable” energy that haven’t received extensive coverage here.”

I certainly dislike having to say the same thing again and again, but could you tell me what the “renewable” energy realities are that I can discover? I have given it much thought over many years and the only realities that I have discovered is that “renewable” energy doesn’t work for the human race.

J Boles
Reply to  Ronald Stein
April 1, 2024 10:41 am

Ain’t it SCARY how ignorant they are? When will we hit the brick wall that puts a kibosh on all such schemes, I fear many will die first to make the point.

1saveenergy
Reply to  J Boles
April 1, 2024 12:30 pm

“Ain’t it SCARY how ignorant they are?”

But not as scary as the ignorant voters who put them there !!

Reply to  J Boles
April 1, 2024 2:37 pm

— “We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” – Prof. Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports.”

I prefer the “3%” that are honest.
(I’d prefer the “97%” were honest also.)

Reply to  Gunga Din
April 2, 2024 4:17 am

But it’s not 3%, it 99.997% as demonstrated in a Peer Reviewed study into the 97% scam.

“Climate Consensus and ‘Misinformation’: A Rejoinder to Agnotology, Scientific Consensus, and the Teaching and Learning of Climate Change”

https://www.wmbriggs.com/public/Legates.etal.2015.pdf

Denis
Reply to  Ronald Stein
April 1, 2024 11:24 am

“…Data centers, streaming video, hospitals, airports, military, and national security need continuous, uninterruptable electricity.”

Not to mention my computer, TV, lights, refrigerator, freezer, water supply and HVAC system and absolutely everyone else’s as well.

Reply to  Denis
April 1, 2024 2:46 pm

Who knew?

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 6:26 pm

Apparently… not you.

Perhaps you need to be informed of the truth a few more times. 😉

Reply to  bnice2000
April 1, 2024 6:53 pm

Everybody knows. Tell us something we don’t know, although in your case that might be impossible.

Reply to  general custer
April 1, 2024 8:55 pm

diddums.. are you upset, general custard !

… just have another whinge.. that’ll fix it !!

Reply to  bnice2000
April 1, 2024 9:12 pm

He whines more than the trendologists whine.

bobpjones
Reply to  karlomonte
April 2, 2024 4:57 am

Perhaps, even more than a creaking wind turbine.

April 1, 2024 10:25 am

The author needs to check his units – $45/MWh is 4 1/2c a kWh. But it doesn’t really matter as no one has built a sizeable floating wind turbine to get a true idea of the costs. Because of major engineering issues that all bar idealists can see, $450+ /MWh is a better number.

Reply to  Chris Morris
April 1, 2024 1:08 pm

Just a wild guess- but it just seems impossible to me that a floating wind turbine could be stable. Is it going to wobble with the waves or is it supposed to remain as stable as a turbine on land?

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 1, 2024 2:21 pm

The primary failure mode of big onshore wind turbines is axial bearing failure. The problem is inherent, since wind speed is higher aloft so the bearings wobble as each of the three blades reaches peak height.

Any wave induced sway on a floating offshore turbine makes the wobble problem worse and axial bearing failure earlier and less predictable. Beefier bearings have not solved this problem onshore; they for sure wouldn’t offshore.

Not a wild guess, just very good intuition.

J Boles
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 1, 2024 4:48 pm

I wonder if the barges on which they rest are to be made of concrete and steel? Lots of C02 to make them!

The Dark Lord
Reply to  J Boles
April 1, 2024 8:53 pm

they don’t “float on the surface” …

bobpjones
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 2, 2024 5:01 am

Thanks for that Rud, it had crossed my mind, that wind loads, would cause the nacelle to sway back & forth, and to me, it seemed logical, that there would be some form of load on the bearings (bit like backlash). Someone else, commented here some time ago, that they suffer from brinneling.

Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 2, 2024 7:00 am

The primary failure mode of big onshore wind turbines is axial bearing failure.

As expected for a large spinning load effectively supported on only one end of the shaft (unlike a railroad wheelset, for example).

The Dark Lord
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 1, 2024 8:53 pm

the floating platforms don’t float on the surface … their center of gravity is well below the surface … and the best designs have multiple legs … and nobody runs the turbines at hurricane speeds (or even close to hurricane speeds) … i.e. the force of the wind on spinning turbine blades is eliminated … yes its a tall thin sail then but much less horizontal force …

Reply to  The Dark Lord
April 2, 2024 4:32 am

Oil rig derricks don’t have blades either, yet the whiplash effect managed to destroy that.

There are also problems with just one of these giant turbines failing. Floating debris.

They are after all giant tubes, logically, reinforced and sealed along their length and when one falls there will likely be a domino effect as the first drifts in high winds and smashes into another structure. Then there’s twice the debris being swept along by high winds and currents, amongst thousands of other floating turbines.

Each of the nacells will carry about 1,000 gallons of oil, although this isn’t quite the problem we used to believe. The Deepwater Horizon disaster taught us that. 50% of the oil from that disaster couldn’t be accounted for, until researchers discovered that aquatic microbes were digesting the oil.

Which makes sense as oil must be escaping from vents and fissures on the worlds seabeds, changing with tectonic plate movements. We don’t have oceans covered in oil from them so it must be going somewhere, and it turns out it’s lunch.

Reply to  Chris Morris
April 1, 2024 3:42 pm

As others have pointed out below – having a spinning mass with a lot of inertia way above the barge will cause all sorts of loadings that could not be designed for.
The bearing are rolling element. At the speeds the units turn, loads are imposed on the races which can’t be designed out. Lubrication would also be suspect as no hydrodynamic wedge could form.

The Dark Lord
Reply to  Chris Morris
April 1, 2024 8:55 pm

not on “barges” … they call them floating platforms when they should be called semi-submerged

Reply to  The Dark Lord
April 2, 2024 4:40 am

Submerged barges? I suspect they will be floated out as barges, anchored to the seabed, winched(?) to a depth, and reliant on buoyancy to maintain tension with their seabed anchors.

Which brings us to another problem. If just one of these turbines, amongst thousands of others, fails, there isn’t just the tubular structure bobbing in the oceans smashing into other turbines, there’s the potential for these massive barge structures to also bob to the surface and drift into more turbines.

Rud Istvan
April 1, 2024 10:27 am

Correctly calculated, the LCOE of intermitent onshore wind at 10% grid penetration is about 2.5x that of dispatchable CCGT. EIA says intermittent offshore wind is 3x onshore. Thatbis 7.5x dispatchable CCGT. Madness.

D Sandberg
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 1, 2024 3:58 pm

Rudl `7.5x sounds about right for $3.00 MCF natural gas. if the UK and Germany would start horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracking in the North Sea instead of erecting monuments of human stupidity; they should be able accomplish that price and more than half the cost vs offshore wind.

 
NATURAL GAS (HENRY HUB) Price
1.75-0.01-0.57%
05:00:00 PM EDT 3/28/2024
MI Indication

70 GBP per therm is approximately equivalent to 6.75 dollars per MCF of natural gas.

 UK energy prices 3 30 24.

68.05 – 69.22 GBp/Thm

Reply to  D Sandberg
April 2, 2024 4:54 am

It will happen eventually, but as with most things British these days, it will be in an unplanned, knee jerk response to yet another crisis and will cost the taxpayer a fortune.

David Wojick
April 1, 2024 10:38 am
D Sandberg
Reply to  David Wojick
April 1, 2024 4:01 pm

David, I think floating platforms should be mandatory, they’re a great idea. It just may kill the nonsense of offshore wind.

Martin Brumby
Reply to  D Sandberg
April 1, 2024 6:14 pm

I think that they are so wonderful an idea that the UN headquarters in NYC should be relocated onto the very first such platform built, to show to the plebs that all our Global “Beloved Leaders” are indeed “Fearless”!

Martin Brumby
Reply to  Martin Brumby
April 1, 2024 6:35 pm

Somewhere south of Cape Horn woild be a great location for this project. No point in building it where the wind don’t blow.

April 1, 2024 11:11 am

Headline asks, “Can ‘clean energy’ schemes get any crazier?”
A: Yes. Undersea tidal energy kites.

Screenshot-2024-04-01-at-1.10.20 PM-copy
J Boles
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
April 1, 2024 1:01 pm

I recall so many tidal energy schemes back in the 70s in for example Popular Mechanix magazine.

Reply to  J Boles
April 2, 2024 5:03 am

A commercial ‘revolutionary’ tidal project in the north of Scotland went bust several years ago, blaming it on underfunding or some such financial malaise.

Orkney(?) council thought it a great idea to snap up the whole working project for £1.

A few years later it was, predictably, non working and cost the Orkney taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds to scrap it.

It is, however, not unusual to find UK local councils dabbling in things they shouldn’t. There is a litany of them ‘investing’ in property and an equal litany of financial disasters because councils are there to keep the streets clean and the trash collected. They are as far from sophisticated property speculators as one could imagine.

The problem for them is though, they have taxpayers money to spend.

1saveenergy
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
April 1, 2024 4:23 pm

Minesto has been in Holyhead on Anglesey since 2015 Farming the subsidies ( that ran out in 2022).

They were given a large ‘Assembly Hall’ on the dock & large offices in the town + £9.5m of EU funding.
“It hopes that by 2019 it will be employing 120 people in a wide range of jobs” … Max employees = 30

“Martin Edlund, chief executive of Minesto, said he hopes the power plant is installed at Holyhead Deep, the world’s first low-flow tidal stream project, by the ‘third quarter’ of 2022”.

Nothing is installed & at the end of 2022 Minesto left Holyhead, they have now moved to the Faroe Isles to Farm more EU subsidies.

Reply to  1saveenergy
April 2, 2024 5:11 am

Same story in Scotland. The loony and dangerous SNP (Of Nicola Sturgeon and Humza Useless fame).

They have, for the last fifteen years, promised hundreds of thousands of green jobs in the country thanks to wind renewables.

I think about the only turbine manufacturer that located there (which would make sense as it’s close to the north sea offshore wind projects) took millions in taxpayers subsidies and then scuttled off to another country because it couldn’t make ends meet.

If we exclude the thousands of pseudo designated new green jobs now assembled – trash collectors, tree surgeons, consultants etc. I believe there are a few thousand people actually working on renewable projects. They are maintenance staff and ships crews as manufacturing is accomplished overseas.

Denis
April 1, 2024 11:15 am

That salt eats the heck out of everything-a well known fixed data point for all manner of marine (meaning ocean going) structures. Maritime ships, for example, seldom operate more than 30 years because of salt except for some military ships that carry such an abundance of high cost technology that the extraordinary cost to repair salt-induced failures is (or may be) worth it. Ships plying the Great Lakes can easily exceed 50 years or sometimes much more, until their basic economic parameters are exceeded by more recent technology.

Wind turbines fixed in the ocean’s bottom are equally subject to the mayhem caused by salt air in addition to the vagaries of wind speed and direction. Currently, because of these vagaries failure of gears and bearings are the major cost centers in keeping such machines operating. Mount them on floating barges and you add increased bearing and gear loading from the pitch, roll, rise and fall of the barges. Even more maintenance will be required. Yes, maritime ships survive such motions but the bearings and gears (if any) are specifically designed to do this and are truly massive structures, far too heavy to be mounted at the top of a 400 foot tall pole. If the Biden politicians think they barge mounted turbines are a good idea, at the very least, they could build just one or two and see what happens in 10 years before building hundreds.

Their proposal to do the latter is truly truly nutty.

The Dark Lord
Reply to  Denis
April 1, 2024 8:56 pm

NOT ON BARGES …

Reply to  The Dark Lord
April 2, 2024 5:13 am

Submersible barges? They are not dragged along the seabed to their offshore location.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  HotScot
April 2, 2024 7:50 am

Orsted have a quick guide to the 4 different types of floating offshore wind – Tension leg platform, Semi submersible, Barge and Spar buoy and their advantages and disadvantages.

https://orsted.com/en/what-we-do/renewable-energy-solutions/floating-offshore-wind-energy

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Dave Andrews
April 2, 2024 7:53 am

Should add they all have some disadvantage.

tinny
April 1, 2024 11:40 am

Do these folk know about gyroscopic forces?
It will be fun to watch these floating wastes of money dismantling themselves when the sea gets a bit rough.

Scissor
Reply to  tinny
April 1, 2024 1:11 pm

It’s ok, they’ll be covered with Tzatziki.

April 1, 2024 11:46 am

Title “Can ‘clean energy’ schemes get any crazier?”
Are you challenging them?

As a generally conservative person, I believe things can always get worse.
FJB

Reply to  Brad-DXT
April 1, 2024 12:06 pm

A more general rule: Never under-estimate the stupidity of the human mind to concoct crazy schemes in regards to fervently held cult beliefs.

Reply to  Brad-DXT
April 1, 2024 11:22 pm

As long as governments keep giving them money every grifter, charlatan and crazy will line up with his hand out.

JohninRedding
April 1, 2024 11:55 am

Two major issues that need to be solved: 1) Is it possible to provide adequate anchorage of these floating monsters against huge waves during a storm that is also acting on huge blades being hit by the same winds creating the huge waves? 2) What kind of electrical connection under the float can be made to withstand the twisting and bounding of these floating monsters? I understand attempts to harness the energy of something as normal as waves have never found anything to withstand the endless pounding. To me, that is a much easier problem to tackle but it did not work out.

The Dark Lord
Reply to  JohninRedding
April 1, 2024 8:57 pm

they don’t “float” on the surface” … good lord … think submarine just below the surface …

bobpjones
Reply to  JohninRedding
April 2, 2024 5:10 am

“something as normal as waves have never found anything to withstand the endless pounding” Ah the power of mother nature, makes us realise how puny and futile we are. Except, when it comes to climate change.

April 1, 2024 12:26 pm

Again and again and again we see the “create good-paying jobs” claim.

I am fairly sure the people who say that want us to hear “create net new good-paying jobs”.

To me that means “adding cost”. Is that a feature?! Am I supposed to be pleased about that?

Dr. Bob
April 1, 2024 12:52 pm

I am not a structural engineer, but I can just imagine the torsional loads an 850-foot-tall wind turbine puts on the tower structure and base. The mooring cables would be under tremendous stresses. This paper explores the bucking loads on towers, the most common failure of wind turbines.

Buckling Analysis for Wind Turbine Tower Design: Thrust Load versus Compression Load Based on Energy Methodby Yang Ma,Pedro Martinez-Vazquez andCharalampos Baniotopoulos *
Energies | Free Full-Text | Buckling Analysis for Wind Turbine Tower Design: Thrust Load versus Compression Load Based on Energy Method (mdpi.com)

Eng_Ian
Reply to  Dr. Bob
April 1, 2024 2:34 pm

Torsion is twisting, you can imagine a torsion load if you picture a stuck drill bit or a drive shaft on a car. The bigger load is bending, which is the loading best imagined by the picturing the centre section of the beam in a see-saw. Bending loads try to change the shape of straight beams into bananas, etc.

Since the wind turbine nacelle is going to rotate to orient it into the wind, the torsion loads can be managed. It would be significantly worse if the nacelle was incorrectly aligned, with the blades aligned so that the rotating axis of the fan was at 90 degrees to the wind direction. This would result in large torsion loads but is still quite simple to disperse to the foundations.

The issue I see, with a three bladed fan, is that on every rotation two blades will be on one side and then as the top blade swings over, there are then two blades on the the other, etc This will set up a cyclic torsion load, an even number of blades would have eliminated this load. Strange they did this, cyclic loads lead to fatigue.

I’d be more concerned about BENDING loads, eg the ones caused by a horizontal force applied at the top of a post. These forces get larger as the length of the post increases, or as the load increases. Both obviously increasing as the demand for larger fan diameters and taller towers materialise from the dreams of the renewable fraternity.

And of course, no matter what wind speed you design for, sooner or later that speed will be exceeded, it’s just a matter of time. If we are forced to build them, then who gets to pick up the pieces. With heavy falling objects, NIMBY has real meaning, especially if you are in the drop zone.

Reply to  Eng_Ian
April 1, 2024 3:23 pm

then who gets to pick up the pieces. “

They become artificial reefs… lubricants and all. !

Exxon Valdez repeat, except this time it is being done on purpose.

Dr. Bob
Reply to  Eng_Ian
April 2, 2024 8:42 am

Thanks for the clariication. Terminology is important. I was thinking like a torque wrench. But no matter what, all the forces need to be understood and designed for or bad things happen.

erlrodd
April 1, 2024 1:20 pm

Hey, to make a really powerful demonstration project, they could make this one “sustainable” by: 1) Using no fossil fuels in manufacturing the windmills, pylons etc.; 2) Using only recycled materials in building the wind farm; 2a) Maybe a concession to allow some newly mined materials, but without any fossil fuels used in that mining process; 3) Using no fossil fuels in transporting the parts to the wind farm and so forth. You can hear them shouting “impossible?”

Bob
April 1, 2024 1:30 pm

Very nice Paul. Until government officials are held accountable for the damage they cause they will continue to screw us. All it will take is for a couple government officials or agencies to be punished and all of this will end. Their punishment can’t be fines, they would have us pay their fines.

April 1, 2024 1:55 pm

Effectively creating future artificial reefs for fish !

Scarecrow Repair
April 1, 2024 2:11 pm

Offshore wind is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to build a new clean energy industry

More like once every generation, the way those things wear out.

Mr Ed
April 1, 2024 2:39 pm

This is an interesting thread to me. There’s a new startup off-shore wind system operating
off the New England coast, Vineyard Wind 1. I haven’t seen a good breakdown on the
particulars other that 5 units up and running with another 57 left to be built. Avangrid is
the company doing the project. One item I saw was a electrical connection to hydro power
from Canada being connected for the base load. These units are huge, 853ft tall towers
with a blade diameter of aprox 100 meters spaced 1 mile apart. A $3 billion project.
Looks like a heavy lift to me..

Paul B
April 1, 2024 3:05 pm

The Gulf Stream is a massive source of free energy. We could tap it with submerged turbines off the Florida coast. Europeans might not be thrilled with the prospect, of course.

Just because you can jump off things, doesn’t mean it’s good for you.

marcwseeley
April 1, 2024 3:39 pm

“However, a little reality is urgently needed before activists and bureaucrats take us any further down this primrose path.” The understatement of the century. But more importantly, since when did climate activists and bureaucrats deal in reality, even a “little reality” ?

observa
April 1, 2024 10:06 pm

Can ‘clean energy’ schemes get any crazier? 
Beijing central planners are counting on it with all the Western useful idiots-
Millions of China’s EVs Could Be Remotely Locked by Manufacturers, $70K Luxury Models Turn to Junk – YouTubeThey’ll save yo’all from the dooming.

ferdberple
April 2, 2024 2:04 am

A boat anchored out in a storm almost certainly will break the boat or chains.

ferdberple
April 2, 2024 2:09 am

Where is all the extra energy going to come from to build a green economy? You cant use green energy to build a green economy because green energy does not exist. You first need to increase fossil fuel use to build a green economy. Which means the green economy will increase pollution not reduce it. It is a problem disguised as a solution.

Corrigenda
April 2, 2024 1:14 pm

The UK and now Germany in the EU have finally grasped that Net Zero is both wrong and unworkable. So why is the World STILL paying Paris Money to try and effect it? Worse why are the Maldives – which were supposed to have sunk years ago, but of course haven’t, still getting their Paris money and using it to build five new airports at near beach level. Whoever is responsible for this appalling decision?

Greg Locock
April 2, 2024 9:10 pm

$45 per megawatt-hour by 2035. (That’s 45¢ per kilowatt-hour)”

Oh no it isn’t, out by a factor of 10. 100 c in a $, 1000 kWh in a MWh 45*100/1000=4.5c /kWh