Climate Scientists to Their Kids: We’re Going to Die Like the Dinosaurs

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Ever wondered what it is like being the child of an Climate Scientist? Thanks to The Conversation, we now have a window into what its like to grow up in the home of an academic climate alarmist.

How climate scientists talk to their kids about climate change

04 NOV 2021   LACHLAN GILBERT 

There’s no need to sugar-coat the truth or scaremonger when talking to kids about climate change.

Have you talked about climate change to your kids and what did you, or what do you plan to say?

SPK: The only way we’ve really talked about climate change so far is about the dinosaurs. Before lockdown, we went to the dinosaur museum here in Canberra. And they loved it. My eldest has constantly been asking questions like ‘where are the dinosaurs now?’ And I said ‘well, you know, they died out’. ‘Why did they die out?’ ‘Well, climate change?’ ‘Okay, how did the climate change…’ and so she’s kind of being very inquisitive. But I haven’t yet had a sit down with her saying, ‘well, yeah, the climate is warming, it’s getting worse. It’s basically because of my parents and their parents before them – sorry about that!

I have had a couple of conversations with my nieces and nephews. My niece, when she was nine or 10, asked me to come to her school and give a talk. So I actually started thinking: how am I going to talk about this? I don’t want to get in there and scare them and say, ‘you’re all doomed, you’re all gonna die’. I was never going to do that –I would talk to them about how the planet’s changing, the indicators of this and how we can fix it. I think you should always finish on a message of hope, especially with a younger demographic.

KM: We always had a very scientific approach to education. When they ask a question, they get the answer, even if the answer is not pretty. Even when they grew up, they knew that Santa Claus was not real from early on, and we never made a big deal out of how babies come into the world, we never made them believe in the tooth fairy… so climate change for me is just another fact we have to live with, a fact we can talk about with the kids.

Because we talk about climate change all the time, they were exposed to it from a young age. We would also take them on holidays where you can see evidence of it all around you, for example coral reefs. I think it was just part of their lives from the beginning, and they didn’t need me pointing these things out.

IM: I don’t think my two are that aware of climate change itself. So I’m trying to raise their awareness of environmental issues, but we’re at the stage where I might, for example, point out an electric car, or that it’s a terrible habit to leave the taps running. So at this stage it’s saying things like don’t waste things, don’t use too much plastic because it ends up in the ocean, that kind of thing. I think that’s a far easier thing to attack than the specific issue of climate change itself. I see climate change as just another facet of issues to do with waste and careful use of resources.

As for whether I’m worried about scaring them or other kids old enough to understand about climate change, to be honest, it doesn’t worry me. I mean, there are things worth being scared of!

Read more: https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/how-climate-scientists-talk-their-kids-about-climate-change

When I read history books, interviews with survivors of the some of the worst attrocities of the 20th century, they didn’t take their kids out on guided tours to look at all the ugliness on display, they tried to shield their children from the horror, did everything in their power to give them a childhood of love and joy, in the most impossible circumstances.

Yet climate activists seem to revel in frightening the hell out of their children with the worst of their nightmare climate fantasies, then somehow seem to think it is OK if after scaring the kids, they try to undo some of the damage by finishing on a “message of hope”.

Telling kids they are likely to die a horrible death should never be a part of childhood, even if the horror is real.

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what I’m reading, but the uppermost thought in my mind after reading this was, who needs a climate catastrophe when you have parents like that? In my opinion this just seems so wrong.

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Editor
November 4, 2021 2:08 pm

The actual quotes from anonymous climate scientists are not so bad.

If the scientists being quoted are raving alarmists, then they are not really convinced about the imminent demise of mankind, even though they may say to to others, they can’t bring themselves to say it to their kids….because its a lie? Don’t know.

Editor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 2:11 pm

Besides, we don’t know that the dinosaurs died from climate change….asteroid strike?

The latest theory out of Harvard is “According to this new theory, the devastation came not from a relatively nearby asteroid, but from a sort of long-distance comet that came from the edge of the solar system in an area known as the Oort cloud.”

John Tillman
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 2:22 pm

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82320-2

Breakup of a long-period comet as the origin of the dinosaur extinction

Editor
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 2:33 pm

John ==> That’s the latest hypothesis.

John Tillman
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 2:40 pm

Both comets and asteroids have been hypothesized since the Alvarezes’ 1980 paper, but the 2021 LPC study followed general rejection of the once widely accepted 2007 Baptisina asteroid hypothesis.

But that the Yucatan impact caused the end Cretaceous mass extinction event now ranks as an observation, not just an hypothesis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6486721/

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
Editor
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 2:48 pm

John ==> Yeah, maybe so. Ya gotta watch those hypotheses that slip quietly over into “accepted science” before proofs are thoroughly provided. This is not a field that I am very familiar with — so I haven’t even an opinion.

John Tillman
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 3:00 pm

Hypotheses repeatedly confirmed, then actually observed, become facts.

Copernicus’ heliocentric hypothesis was repeatedly confirmed, then directly observed, so it’s now a scientific fact that Earth orbits the Sun, although not in a perfect circle, as the great Prussian astronomer originally hypothesized.

Atoms were also originally an hypothesis, but repeatedly confirmed and now observed.

Ditto evolution by means of natural selection, the germ theory of disease and increasingly general relativity.

JimG1
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 3:57 pm

J Tillman

“Ditto evolution by means of natural selection,”
Within spcies but not across species. No such “observatios”.

Jim G1

John Tillman
Reply to  JimG1
November 4, 2021 4:35 pm

Evolution of new species is observed all the time. Speciation by means of natural selection and other well known evolutionary processes indeed is a result of reproduction.

It’s a scientific fact, ie a a repeated observation of nature.

Please study actual biology rather than falling for the mendacities of paid creationist liars, leading you to spout ignorant, utter gibberish.

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
Max More
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 7:09 pm

I would recommend Why Evolution is True, by Jerry Coyne.

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 4:58 am

JohnTillman you (and all others) need to read “Darwin’s Doubt” by Dr.Steven C. Meyer subtitle “The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design” before you advance any scientific explanation of the failed theories of natural selection or evolution. See you here in about a month.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
November 5, 2021 9:05 am

On the Assumption of Design refutes Intelligent Design as pseudoscience.

Perhaps the section that most irritated believers was the one showing that insistence on ID necessarily repudiates a supernatural creator.

Here’s that section: “The argument that the universe, and in particular an organized universe, could not spontaneously arise ex nihilo is another rationale for the Design Inference. … [I]n order to be accorded the status of a true scientific theory, in the sense of testable predictions, proponents of the Design Inference must accede that the theoretical principles of design are inherently discernible by human study.

That means the design principles used to guide construction of the universe must be inherently non-supernatural. This conclusion has bearing on the question of a possible designer.

Specifically, if the putatively designed universe, including its origin, is completely explicable in terms of a theory based in physics then the proposition of a supernatural creator is superfluous.

An irony of the Design Inference, therefore, is that it decouples creation from the Creator.

An especially ironic own-goal.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 5, 2021 10:06 am

All that is very interesting philosophizing about intelligent design, but it doesn’t address the many failures of Darwinism.
We need to step back from the failing Darwinian model and find new solutions that conform with the modern understanding of microbiology (which has thrown a wrench in the works).
Currently there is a vacuum. Somebody is going to fill it.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 11:14 am

I know of no microbiological wrenches thrown into Evolutionary Theory, Timo.

Human Chromosome #2, which includes a telomere repeat at its center, is clear evidence that humans evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Also here.

John Tillman
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 12:22 pm

What failures? There is no such thing as “Darwinism” in biology. There is the term “darwinian”, which refers to evolution by natural selection, which is a fact. It’s a consequence of reproduction.

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 5, 2021 12:22 pm

Obviously Pat you didn’t read Darwin’s Doubt— you have to join Tillman in reading it. Don’t offer ” On The Assumption of Design” as a Straw-man argument. Your intellectual masturbation answer shows you don’t have a clue about the subject. Meyer offers computer, engineering and statistical arguments that offer more science than collectively than any other contributor on these pages,. with the possible exceptions of Dave Middleton & Andy May.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
November 5, 2021 1:49 pm

Non-argument argument, CB. Sneering disparagement is not a falsification.

Explaining the Cambrian “Explosion” of Animals

The Cambrian explosion triggered by critical turning point in genome size evolution
Maybe Meyer ought to do some more reading. You, too.

John Tillman
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
November 5, 2021 12:41 pm

There is no case for ID. It’s an anti-scientific religious dogma without a shred of evidence and all the evidence in the world against it.

Behe, who hatched the false doctrine, was forced to admit under oath that evolution is a fact. The Dover trial also produced the hilarious demonstration that ID pushers had just changed “creation” to “intelligent design” in their textbooks.

Instead of making a career out of ID, Behe should have practiced science by trying to figure out how bacterial flagella evolved, rather than pronouncing them “irreducibly complex”. Instead, other, genuinely scientific microbiologists discovered the pathways.

The only design in nature is idiotic, not intelligent. Evolution works with the materials available. You can insert God into the history of life on Earth, but there is no scientific need to invoke supernatural intervention. The goal of science is to find natural explanations for observations on nature.

John Tillman
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
November 5, 2021 12:55 pm

Meyer works for the creationist Discovery Institute. As a philosophy grad, he is completely ignorant of elementary biology.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 5:13 am

Can you give us an example of when somebody “observed” speciation please.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 11:22 am
John Larson
Reply to  Pat Frank
November 6, 2021 4:06 am

Your linked cite is totally irrelevant to the question at hand, and essentially points that out by switching from “species” to “kind” as though they must (for some utterly mysteries to me reason), be the same level/type of classification basis.

And, as far as I saw, they were mentioning presumed (believed, in non-mangod speak) speciation . . which is a somewhat arbitrary classification, since it does not mean unable to successfully interbreed with similar “species”..

I suggest you stop with the half-blind faith in scientists’ blabber approach, since you’re seeing very good reason to knock it off everyday around here . . and discuss the matter like an adult, rather than like a climate change fanatic’s kid . .

(Just kidding ; )

Pat Frank
Reply to  John Larson
November 6, 2021 2:02 pm

John Larson, in the linked paper, Catherine Callaghan mentioned “kind” when she noted that creationists use the word to mean ‘species.’

The Callaghan paper is directly relevant because it mentions observed instances of speciation, which is the evidence Timo requested in his November 5, 2021 5:13 am.

More for you: rapid biological speciation.

Unattractively lurid language such as you used doesn’t encourage conversation, John.

John Tillman
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 12:25 pm

They’re countless, both in the lab and the wild.

Please see the link to nylon-eating bacteria below.

You really ought to study biology before presuming to comment on it.

THOMAS ENGLERT
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 8:47 pm

Now, give us an example of when somebody “observed” intelligent design in progress.

John Larson
Reply to  THOMAS ENGLERT
November 6, 2021 4:38 am

“Now, give us an example of when somebody “observed” intelligent design in progress.”

Covid 19

But obviously, the designing would have been done at the beginning, and we can see how that might work, if we just consider domesticated animals, like dogs. Breeders were working with/toward potential variations already in the “selectable” coding. And since wolves can interbreed with dogs, it might be that they are of the same “kind” in terms of how a certain Book “classifies” critters . .

I believed in Grand Origin Story Evolution most of life, ain’t no big accomplishment since that’s what I heard the climate scien . . er Evolution scientists preach ; ) since I was able to read. Pretty much taught myself how, since the silly teachers didn’t understand how important it was for me to learn more about dinosaurs . . ; )

JimG1
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 7:34 am

J Tillman

The intensity of your name calling reply and constant posting on this site, say much about your need to show how smart you think you are. Open your mind to other possibilities.

JimG1

John Tillman
Reply to  JimG1
November 5, 2021 12:43 pm

Clearly, your mind is closed to reality.

No smarts are needed to show how ignorant are people who buy into professional creationists’ blasphemous lies.

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
JimG1
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 1:19 pm

J Tillman

As you say, “No smarts are needed” you therefore qualify. Real science is never really settled.

JimG1

John Tillman
Reply to  JimG1
November 5, 2021 1:54 pm

Actually, some things are settled. They’re called scientific facts, ie observations of nature. What gravity is isn’t settled, but it is a fact. That Earth is a planet orbiting the Sun is a fact. Evolution is also a fact.

What remains unsettled are explanations for some observations of nature.

otsar
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 4:09 pm

Evolution is a fact. It did not stop a long time ago. It is an on going process of adaptation. It can be seen in action today with the evolution of the Corona virus.

JimG1
Reply to  John Tillman
November 6, 2021 8:40 am

J Tillman

“If you thought that science was certain – well, that is just an error on your part.”
Richard Feynman

JimG1

MarkW
Reply to  JimG1
November 4, 2021 6:09 pm

Gather enough small changes and you have a new species.

John Tillman
Reply to  MarkW
November 4, 2021 6:22 pm

Yes, a lot of microevolution becomes macroevolution over time. But also new species can and do arise overnight in a single evolution via polyploidy, especailly whole genome duplication.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 6:11 am

John Tillman “new species can and do arise overnight in a single evolution”
So Bessy the cow delivers a litter of tiger kittens one morning?

John Tillman
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 12:11 pm

You don’t understand evolution.

Tiger kittens wouldn’t be new species and can’t arise from a cow,

Whole or partial genome duplication yields a new species in one generation, ie a daughter species unable to produce offspring with its parental species. It’s more common in plants than animals, but humans have such duplications in our ancestry.

pigs_in_space
Reply to  MarkW
November 4, 2021 11:38 pm

Except the 2nd law of thermodynamics dictates it generates more and more entropy and disorder, therefore less developed species are incapable of developing into more developed species QED.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  pigs_in_space
November 5, 2021 3:43 am

“2nd law of thermodynamics”

oh, no- the pillar of the creationists- I spent years debating with a friend who became a creationist- when I first heard this, it almost started to make sense- that was because I had never studied geology- so I went to the nearby university book store and bought every geology book there- read them- then realized how ignorant the creationist fairy tale is- not only that, but books published by The Creationist Institute (back several decades) were clearly written using the kind of language you can find in a geology book- only it was all twisted to try to prove their theory- hard to tell if that’s the only thing you read on the subject- but once you read a genuine geology text, you can see right through it

Pat Frank
Reply to  pigs_in_space
November 6, 2021 2:06 pm

The 2nd law does not restrict self-organization with a steady flux of energy into the system. The relevant example here is the steady flux of solar energy impinging Earth.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  MarkW
November 5, 2021 6:08 am

MarkW “Gather enough small changes and you have a new species.”
You should look up “Blood coagulation cascade”. Any one step in the process will lead to catastrophic failure. Try to imagine how that could evolve by many small changes. What was the last “small change” before that complicated process finally worked? It’s curious how we continue to accept a nineteenth century theory, in its’ totality, even after modern science has exposed its’ multitude of flaws.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 7:36 am

“Any one step missing in the process”
Damn.

John Tillman
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 5, 2021 12:19 pm

Some mutations are beneficial, others neutral and still more harmful. However, changed conditions can render formerly negative or even lethal mutations positive.

The point mutation which turns sugar-eating bacteria into nylon-eaters must have occurred couintless times before the advent of nylon in their environment. After humans started making nylon, the formerly deadly mutation became a boon to the bacteria which evolved the ability to consume it.

Pat Frank
Reply to  Timo, not that one
November 6, 2021 2:11 pm

You’re assuming a linear assemblage, Timo. Systems evolving under natural selection can gain advantage by joining together with other pre-existing systems.

If the newly combined system happens to confer reproductive advantage, it gets propagated. Evolution can occur in parallel, in other words.

John Tillman
Reply to  MarkW
November 5, 2021 12:15 pm

Sometimes it takes just one small change, as in this instance of observed evolution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

Editor
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 4:53 pm

John ==> Everyone chooses their own “facts”…. There have been observations that support the hypothesis….

John Tillman
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 5:40 pm

It’s not a matter of choosing facts.

Observation of the Tanis site show that:

Freak circumstances allowed for the preservation of exquisite, moment-by-moment details caused by the impact event. These include many rare and unique finds, which allow unprecedented examination of the direct effects of the impact on plants and animals alive at the time of the large bolide impact some 3000 kilometers distant.

The events at Tanis occurred far too soon after impact to be caused by the megatsunamis expected from any large impact near large bodies of water. Instead, much faster seismic waves from the massive magnitude 10 to 11.5 earthquakes probably reached the Hell Creek area as soon as ten minutes after the impact, creating seiche waves between 10 to 100 meters high in the Western Interior Seaway and perhaps in other waters nearer the Tanis site, which was close to an ancient river. These waves carried sea, land, freshwater animals and plants, and other debris several miles inland. The seiche waves exposed and covered the site twice, as millions of tiny droplets and debris from the impact were arriving on ballistic trajectories from their source in what is now the Yucatan Peninsula.
.
As of April 2019, reported findings include:

  • animals and plant material preserved in three-dimensional detail and at times upright, rather than pressed flat as usual, their remains thrown together by the massive wave movements
  • articulated and cartilaginous salt and freshwater fish and marine reptiles found together miles inland, with many microtektites (molten debris particles from the impact) embedded in their gills as they tried to breathe
  • millions of “near perfect” primary (that is, not reworked) microtektites “almost indistinguishable” in chemical composition from previously-reported Chicxulub tektites found buried contemporaneous to the fossils in their own impact holes in the soft riverbed mud, and also preserved in amber on tree-trunks
  • large primitive feathers 30–40 cm long with 3.5 mm quills believed to have come from large dinosaurs
  • broken remains from almost all known Hell Creek dinosaur groups

and some incredibly rare finds, such as:

  • fossils of hatchlings and intact eggs with embryo fossils
  • fossil pterosaurs for which no other fossils exist at that time
  • drowned ant nests with ants inside and chambers filled with asteroid debris, and
  • tiny inhabited burrows from some of the first mammals in the area after the impact

The hundreds of fish remains are distributed by size, and generally show evidence of tetany (a body posture related to suffocation in fish), suggesting strongly that they were all killed indiscriminately by a common suffocating cause that affected the entire population. Fragile remains spanning the layers of debris show that the site was laid down in a single event over a short timespan.

Tricerotops or other ceratopsian ilium (hip bone) was found at the high water mark, in circumstances hinting that the dinosaur might speculatively have been a floating carcass and possibly alive at or just before impact.

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
Editor
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 6:34 pm

John ==> Yes, lots of confirmatory observations — especially for those adherents of this particular hypothesis — the same is true for the meteor hypothesis.

John Tillman
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 6:40 pm

Whether asteroid or comet, the fact remains that the end Cretaceous mass extinction event was caused by an ET impact on the Yucatan.

Editor
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 6:49 pm

John ==> Well, we can agree that there was an impact — lots and lots of evidence. The impact was at/near Yucatan. At or near the time that is believed to represent the mass extinction. And, if IMPACT, then something big and extraterrestrial.

Probably NOT a Death Star space going planet-sized battleship.

All of that is pretty sure.

MarkW
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 8:10 pm

Probably NOT a Death Star space going planet-sized battleship.

rats

Duane
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 6:43 pm

So because a couple of theories proved to be accepted, all theories must be accepted?

MarkW
Reply to  Duane
November 4, 2021 8:11 pm

I don’t see how you could have possibly gotten that out of John’s statement.

Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 8:20 pm

There are no scientific facts. Only hypotheses that sand the test of time.

Relativity shoes that nothing is the centre of anything. : you can stick the center of rotation wherever its convenient. And mass/energy/space/time/causality is so passé in a quantum world anyway.

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 4:49 am

“Atoms were also originally an hypothesis, but repeatedly confirmed and now observed.”
John that discovery went through the Bohr’s Atomic Model then theThompson Model also called the Plum Pudding Model,.and then the Rutherford Model and as I recall the current GOD IN THE ATOM theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVzxDdVqbA
Is this the latest observation that you are referring too??

John Tillman
Reply to  Carbon Bigfoot
November 5, 2021 12:07 pm

No, of course not.

I refer to the image of a strontium atom captured last year.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a17804899/here-is-a-photo-of-a-single-atom/

Pat Frank
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 2:50 pm

Here’s another one John: single atom manipulation.

Timo, not that one
Reply to  John Tillman
November 5, 2021 5:22 am

Atoms are now known to be made up of charges and fields, not a collection of little round solid particles, some in groups and others orbiting.
Science is always subject revision as new observations are made.

Gary K Hoffman
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 3:06 pm

Would a comet have left a world wide layer of iridium? I’m pretty sure an asteroid would, but a comet would not. And that’s what was found when geologists went looking for it.

John Tillman
Reply to  Gary K Hoffman
November 4, 2021 3:22 pm

Comets contain iridium levels elevated above Earth’s. Perhaps lower than some asteroids, but their levels also vary by type. Asteroids are diverse. The more metallic, iron-nickel types come from the differentiated cores of planetisimals.

The impactor was thought to be a carbonaceous chondrite, ie rocky asteroid, but we now know that comets also contain that material, but with more ices than typical Main Belt asteroids.

Steve Case
Reply to  Gary K Hoffman
November 4, 2021 5:19 pm

Maybe iridium was poisonous to dinosaurs.

John Tillman
Reply to  Steve Case
November 4, 2021 5:57 pm

Far more than dinosaurs died that terrible day and shortly thereafter.

Vuk
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 2:25 pm

Dinosaurs died from electric shock! They were particularly long animals with nerves (good electrical conductors in all animals) stretching for few meters in length from brain to tip of the tail. A huge solar magnetic storm (about hundred to thousand times in strength of the Carrington event) would wipe out all large dino’s while smaller one would survive with no problem. You heard first here / 🙂

Steve Case
Reply to  Vuk
November 4, 2021 5:21 pm

There were small dinosaurs, but they all croaked too.

Andre Thomas Lewis
Reply to  Steve Case
November 4, 2021 5:37 pm

Not really, many survived until now – we call them birds.

John Larson
Reply to  Andre Thomas Lewis
November 6, 2021 6:00 pm

Might as well say birds are amphibians then, or birds are fish, if you’re going to say birds are dinosaurs. No, I suggest, they are not dinosaurs, that’s why we call them birds ; )

John Tillman
Reply to  John Larson
November 8, 2021 7:40 am

Birds are theropod saurischian dinosaurs, archosaurs, diapsid reptiles, amniotes and belong to many other clades as well. Just as humans are primates, mammals, synapsids, amniotes, etc.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 2:28 pm

we don’t know that the dinosaurs died from climate change….asteroid strike?

To be fair, the presumed asteroid strike would have seriously changed the climate. Unlike CO2.

John Tillman
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
November 4, 2021 2:47 pm

Only if superheated air, cataclysmic seismic shocks, global wildfires and tsunamis, followed by darkness and bitter cold, count as climate change! Not to mention sudden, drastic oceanic pH drop lasting 100 to 1000 years.

/sarc

John Bell
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 3:27 pm

Hard to imagine a hit like that, instant continent-smashing tidal waves. unimaginable destruction.

John Tillman
Reply to  John Bell
November 4, 2021 3:31 pm

It is hard to imagine and the apocalyptic effects are still being uncovered.

Yet it wasn’t the worst mass extinction. However it was perhaps Earth’s worst day.

Duane
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 6:56 pm

“Worst” is a value judgment, not a scientific statement.

As for most violent event in Earth’s history, it pales next to the planetary collision that is believed to have resulted in the birth of the moon, billions of years earlier.

Rick C
Reply to  Duane
November 4, 2021 8:53 pm

Which raises the question: if two planets collide and there is not life on either, who cares?

John Tillman
Reply to  Duane
November 8, 2021 7:43 am

Earth had no life then.

Loss of so many species is not a value judgement. Even if the mass death were good for mammals, it was bad for life in general.

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
November 12, 2021 7:38 am

Scientists often mke value judgements. Ecologists preach to save all the parts of ecosystems, because diversity is good for them. Medical researchers value human life over those of pathogenic microbes and viruses.

Vaccines wiped out smallpox and rinderpest in the wild. Polio might be next. Arguably, viruses aren’t alive, but smallpox, as a large, doubled-stranded DNA virus, is close to being a cellular organism. Poxviruses make proteins not found in other DNA viruses, to include viral DNA-dependent RNA polymerase.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  John Bell
November 5, 2021 3:23 am

If the west side of La Palma collapses we may get a tiny taste of what it was like….

Ian Smith
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 11:25 pm

Weather, not climate?

John Tillman
Reply to  Ian Smith
November 12, 2021 7:29 am

The atmospheric and oceanic changes of the impact probably lasted long enough to amount to climate change.

Alan
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
November 4, 2021 3:22 pm

And that climate change would have been almost instant, giving the dinosaurs no time to adapt and build windmills.

John Tillman
Reply to  Alan
November 4, 2021 3:28 pm

Nor to trade in their gas-guzzling SUVs for EVs sold by Muskosaurus subsidii.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 8:43 pm

Not to mention that dinosaurs were not known to have simultaneously paraded around conspicuously consuming vast quantities of the world’s resources while virtue signalling ownership of their carbon neutral means of conveyance.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 2:50 pm

Harvard hasn’t been the epitome of climate research honesty for a couple decades.

Differences between asteroid belt meteoroids and objects from the Oort cloud are absurd without detailed research and specific identification.

Research that Harvard has not performed.
Instead, they desire ‘climate change’ to be the cause of dinosaur extinction, so they theorize objects that meet causing atmospheric desire.

Rocky and metallic objects from the Oort cloud exist. So, why the emphasis on a “comet”?
Because the researchers involved want to claim a large injection of methane in Earth’s atmosphere?

John Tillman
Reply to  ATheoK
November 4, 2021 2:53 pm

Please read the study I linked.

Their conclusion is based upon statistics, astronomy and the observed compositions of comets, asteroids and the impacting bolide.

No mention of methane.

Steve Case
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 5:25 pm

No mention of methane.
_____________________
You rang?

The fabulous CH4 molecule 86 times more powerful than CO2 at trapping heat. The Global Warming Potential numbers one of the greatest examples of misdirection and bullshit ever created.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Steve Case
November 4, 2021 8:53 pm

https://realclimatescience.com/2019/01/the-methane-big-lie/

The Methane Big Lie Posted on January 30, 2019 by tonyheller

“Climate alarmists maintain many big lies, but none bigger than their claims about CH4 (methane.) With each successive UN IPCC report, they bump up the “Global Warming Potential” of methane. In 1995, it was 21 times stronger than CO2. In 2007, it was 25 times stronger than CO2, and in 2014, it was up to 28 times stronger than CO2.”

—————————————————————————–

“It is also impossible to build up large amounts of methane in an atmosphere which contains oxygen, because it quickly oxidizes in the presence of oxygen into H2O and CO2.”

bill Johnston
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 3:31 pm

At least they aren’t blaming hunters toting AR-15’s.

Editor
Reply to  bill Johnston
November 4, 2021 4:54 pm

Bill ==> They would if they could …. In general, in the modern world, most mammal population declines are a direct result of human hunting — humans killing them… when we stop killing them, they most often recover.

Derg
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 6:08 pm

Kip would hunting regulations be more advantageous?

In China they wondered what happened to the Tiger and when they studied they learned that the deer which the tiger used for food were in serious decline. The people used the deer for food 🙂

Editor
Reply to  Derg
November 4, 2021 6:36 pm

Derg ==> Hunt out the predators, or hunt out the prey of the predators….hunting changes the “r” in the basic population dynamics formula and causes unpredictable, non-linear results.

See the Wiki for Robert May’s population formula.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Derg
November 4, 2021 9:00 pm

However, tigers are a top predator, having far fewer numbers than a prey animal, like deer. The main reason for the tiger’s demise was the predilection of Chinese apothecaries for rare and beautiful animal parts. They would have tigers slaughtered to provide the trade with tiger baculums (penis bones).

Steve Case
Reply to  bill Johnston
November 4, 2021 5:26 pm

Could have been alien trophy hunters.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  bill Johnston
November 5, 2021 3:30 am

But maybe some hunters from the future time-traveled back to the Cretaceous and killed off all the dinos. They used Phasers set on high so no trace of their kills was left behind for paleontologists to discover in the fossil records.

PaulH
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 4:30 pm

Here’s how it happened…

Larson.jpg
John Tillman
Reply to  PaulH
November 4, 2021 4:33 pm

Tobacco didn’t exist in the Mesozoic. Whatever the dinos smoked, it wasn’t tobacco.

Gunga Din
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 5:05 pm

Hmmm … maybe that’s why some who smoke something other than tobacco today believe the CAGW hype?
(“OH, wow man, that cloud looks like Barney! If he falls on us, we’re all going to die!)

Victor
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 5:35 pm

They did fart more than dairy cows

John Tillman
Reply to  Victor
November 4, 2021 5:44 pm

Way more!

John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 6:00 pm

Plus, modern ruminants actually burp out more CH4 than emit via flatulence.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Victor
November 4, 2021 9:05 pm

The entire notion of methane’s importance as a GHG is a well conceived red herring. There is a very good reason why it is not building up in our atmosphere. It oxidizes very quickly into water and CO2.

Editor
Reply to  PaulH
November 4, 2021 4:56 pm

Paul ==> You sound like a modern “journalist”…. who then makes up a story that supports their editor’s or publisher’s dictated narrative.

Steve Case
Reply to  PaulH
November 4, 2021 5:31 pm

comment image

DocSiders
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 5:03 pm

The “Dinosaur” Extinction Comet Theory has lots of adherents. But it took somewhere in the vicinity of 5 million years for the dinosaurs to die off.

That’s one hell.of a slow comet.

John Tillman
Reply to  DocSiders
November 4, 2021 5:45 pm

No, it didn’t. The non-avian dinosaurs died in the blink of a geological eye.

Steve Case
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 4, 2021 5:17 pm

Dinosaurs died of disease. All the other major classes of vertebrates survived: Fish, salamanders, frogs, turtles, snakes, lizards, crocodiles, birds, monotremes, marsupials, mammals. But every last dinosaur croaked. That was one very selective comet or asteroid.

The only thing that could have been that selective was disease.

John Tillman
Reply to  Steve Case
November 4, 2021 5:47 pm

Totally wrong.

Most birds, most crocodilians, all ammonites, all pterosaurs, all mosasaurs, all plesiosaurs, most mammals died off.

Disease is not even remotely possible as a cause for the mass extinction event.

MarkW
Reply to  Steve Case
November 4, 2021 8:16 pm

There was a huge amount of difference between the many species of dinosaur. It’s hardly likely that a single disease could have wiped all the non-avian dinosaurs out.
And dinosaurs weren’t the only things wiped out. Most species of many other types of animals died out as well.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  Steve Case
November 4, 2021 9:09 pm

What an odd assertion. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

Bill Powers
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 5, 2021 6:39 am

My eldest has constantly been asking questions like ‘where are the dinosaurs now?’ And I said ‘well, you know, they died out’. ‘Why did they die out?’ ‘Well, climate change?’ ‘Okay, how did the climate change…’ and so she’s kind of being very inquisitive. But I haven’t yet had a sit down with her saying, ‘well, yeah, the climate is warming, it’s getting worse. It’s basically because of my parents and their parents before them – sorry about that!

So the dinosaurs died because of your parents and grandparents? You told your kids that their gramps and granny killed the dinosaurs! And you call yourself a scientist? You are a hiveminded drone. The closest you get to science is that space show fictional antagonist called the Borg. You have been assimilated.

Editor
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 4, 2021 2:30 pm

Eric ==> Thanks.

Allan MacRae
Reply to  Kip Hansen
November 5, 2021 3:08 am

“Telling kids they are likely to die a horrible death should never be a part of childhood, even if the horror is real.
 
The problem is that global warming alarmists are serial scammers, who have been consistently wrong with every one of their many very-scary predictions of climate catastrophe.
 
So relax kids, and enjoy your life – mommy and daddy are just scaring you because that’s what they do – fabricators of false alarm.
____________________________
 
THE GREENS’ PREDICTIVE CLIMATE AND ENERGY RECORD IS THE WORST

The ability to predict is the best objective measure of scientific and technical competence.

Climate doomsters have a perfect NEGATIVE predictive track record – every very-scary climate prediction, of the ~80 they have made since 1970, has FAILED TO HAPPEN.
 
“Rode and Fischbeck, professor of Social & Decision Sciences and Engineering & Public Policy, collected 79 predictions of climate-caused apocalypse going back to the first Earth Day in 1970. With the passage of time, many of these forecasts have since expired; the dates have come and gone uneventfully. In fact, 48 (61%) of the predictions have already expired as of the end of 2020.”

By the end of 2020, the climate doomsters were proved wrong in their scary climate predictions 48 times. At 50:50 odds for each prediction, that is like flipping a coin 48 times and losing every time! The probability of that being mere random stupidity is 1 in 281 trillion! It’s not just global warming scientists being stupid.
 
These climate doomsters have not been telling the truth – they displayed a dishonest bias in their analyses that caused these extremely improbable falsehoods, these frauds.
 
The global warming alarmists have a perfect NEGATIVE predictive track record – they have been 100% wrong about every scary climate prediction – so nobody should continue to believe them.
 
There is a powerful logic that says no rational person or group could be this wrong for this long – they have followed a corrupt agenda – in fact, they knew from the beginning of their catastrophic global warming narrative that they were lying.
 
The radical greens have NO credibility, make that NEGATIVE credibility – their core competence is propaganda, the fabrication of false alarm.
 
The alleged global warming crisis is a decades-old scam that is past its due date – as global cooling happens and people freeze, even the most obtuse warmists will realize they have been conned.
 
Source:
The first half of my latest paper:
“SCIENTIFIC COMPETENCE – THE ABILITY TO CORRECTLY PREDICT”
by Allan MacRae, B.A.Sc., M.Eng., October 2021
http://correctpredictions.ca/
(excerpt)
The ability to correctly predict is the best objective measure of scientific and technical competence.
Following are the correct predictions of Allan MacRae and colleagues on Global Warming Alarmism.
Our scientific predictions are infinitely more accurate than the mainstream narratives, which have been false and baselessly alarmist to date.

November 4, 2021 2:11 pm

Really? Dinosaurs died from socialism?

SxyxS
Reply to  E. Schaffer
November 4, 2021 2:17 pm

It was a red comet.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  E. Schaffer
November 4, 2021 2:34 pm

Good one! +50

John Tillman
November 4, 2021 2:11 pm

Non-avian dinosaurs and most birds, plus many other groups, were wiped out 66 Ma by a space rock. Its impact did briefly severely change climates, but to equate the effects of a catastrophic collision with some climates slightly warming over 160 years is a misrepresentation.

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
Rud Istvan
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 3:01 pm

Have studied the Yucatan bolide impact in some depth. Part of the dinosaur extinction ‘bad luck’ was the impact location and steep angle. Thick gypsum deposits volatilized into SO2, so massive aerosol sun block==>cold shock (not warm), then massive acid rain destroying food plants and disrupting ocean chemistry. Small mobile things (avian dinosaurs aka birds, small reptiles like lizards, small mammals) survived by virtue of mobile scavenging ability of what survived.

John Tillman
Reply to  Rud Istvan
November 4, 2021 3:10 pm

Yes, also seed-eating birds survived, and water fowl in Antarctica, far from the impact, which probably occurred in June, so the SH was already adapting to coming winter. Burrowing and aquatic land creatures were favored as well, plus nocturnal species. so many small mammals.

The great diversity of Mesozoic birds was however blasted down to a few , generally small species, progenitors of present avian diversity.

Acidic rain and runoff account for many of the marine species d!e offs, such as ammonites and possibly plesiosaurs and mosasaurs. Alarmists cite this, but the effect was orders of magnitude greater than any mild lessening of seawater alkalinity today.

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
John Tillman
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 3:35 pm

I for one am OK with there not being mosasaurs or tyrannosaurs.

Mosasaurs BTW were giant marine lizards, indeed akin to snakes. The lizards and snakes (squamates) which survived were small and terrestrial. Later sea snakes returned to saltwater, like some crocs (which are on the bird side of reptilian lineages).

Last edited 1 month ago by John Tillman
MarkW
Reply to  John Tillman
November 4, 2021 8:18 pm

I think I would be more scared of the velociraptors. T-Rex’s can be kept out with a big, strong fence.
Velociraptors are small enough that they could go anywhere a human could go.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
November 5, 2021 6:53 am

I saw a scary sight the other day. It was a video of an alligator climbing up over a six-foot tall chain-link fence.

I guess if I lived in Florida, I would have to put concertina wire on top of the chain-link fence. That might work to keep it from getting to the other side.

Lil-Mike
Reply to  Rud Istvan
November 4, 2021 6:33 pm

A few cubic miles of rock, pulverized and ejected into space, re-entering the earth’s atmosphere, and raining down as glowing sand an inch or two deep, raising the surface temperature a few hundred degrees for a few hours doesn’t help your survival chances either.

Mike
November 4, 2021 2:11 pm

My fifth grader cried in the school bathroom when I was offered a job in Europe (from USA). That’s enough drama for a kid.

Vuk
November 4, 2021 2:14 pm

Children will grow out of it, as they do out of tooth fairies and father Xmases.

Rud Istvan
Reply to  Vuk
November 4, 2021 2:34 pm

Not all of them. Look at Greta Thunberg.

Vuk
Reply to  Rud Istvan
November 4, 2021 2:46 pm

Greta is not a kid, she is an old lady who failed to age gracefully.comment image?

SxyxS
Reply to  Vuk
November 4, 2021 3:05 pm

She and Merkel got seperated after birth.

George Daddis
Reply to  Vuk
November 4, 2021 4:20 pm

She also failed to get an education.

Max More
Reply to  George Daddis
November 4, 2021 7:20 pm

Oh, she was educated — by climate alarmists and anti-capitalist, anti-growth activists. She was not educated in thinking for herself.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  George Daddis
November 4, 2021 9:17 pm

Not to mention being badgered by her parents and probably reminded daily that because of her ancestor (Svante Arrhenius) she had a life’s obligation to spread the word about the ‘secretly’ deadly nature of CO2.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Rud Istvan
November 4, 2021 4:20 pm

Speaking are dear Greta, she abruptly exited a meeting at COP26 (a.k.a. FLOP26) the other day…

https://news.yahoo.com/greta-thunberg-other-climate-change-activists-in-glasgow-slam-greenwashing-and-false-solutions-190059394.html

“GLASGOW, Scotland — Climate activist Greta Thunberg stormed out of an event at the U.N. Climate Change Conference on Wednesday afternoon, where officials and business leaders were discussing how to ensure that markets for trading carbon offsets actually achieve the purpose of reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The Swedish teenager, who was in the audience at a panel discussion, left the venue saying, “Thanks for greenwashing,” after a moderator thanked her for attending the session.”

*******

Hell hath no fury like Greta Thunberg scorned.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
November 4, 2021 6:04 pm

She is like those girls who kicked off the Salem witch trials. Full of new-found self importance and accusing everyone of being Satanists.

Mumbles McGuirck
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
November 4, 2021 7:48 pm

No more blah, blah, blah.
https://youtu.be/j2jHJ3bzTBg

ResourceGuy
Reply to  Vuk
November 4, 2021 2:36 pm

One out of 100 was enough for Jim Jones, the Moonies, and a host of other psychotic scavengers.

Richard Page
November 4, 2021 2:15 pm

I need to qualify this by saying I’m not a parent. However, many friends of mine are and a universal truth seems to be that parents want more for their children than they had. They want their children to have a better childhood, more or better toys, more opportunities and to be able to succeed – to go further than their parents. No parent should ever fill their children’s heads with hopelessness and despair – and yet it happens with academics. 40-odd years ago a friend of mine had academic parents just like that and, as an adult, had to have counselling to cope with his childhood – and this was even before climate change gained traction.

Terry
November 4, 2021 2:19 pm

ya can’t fix stupid

fretslider
November 4, 2021 2:23 pm

By any normal standards it’s child abuse

What a sick bunch of people alarmists are.

Derg
Reply to  fretslider
November 4, 2021 6:14 pm

Lloydo, Simon, Griff, Ghalfrunt are truly sick anti human 💩 indeed.

Zig Zag Wanderer
November 4, 2021 2:26 pm

We would also take them on holidays where you can see evidence of it all around you, for example coral reefs.

It’s so difficult being a Climate Crusader. Having to jet off to tropical paradises in order to ‘show’ your gullible little kiddies how terrible your parents and grandparents were (but not you, of course not you)! It’s such a burden.

Come and visit the Great Barrier Reef, for a last, last chance before the last, last, last chance to see it. Bring tourist dollars! And gullible kiddies, if you must.

Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
November 5, 2021 3:47 am

Of course any half-smart kiddo, taken to the GBR, is bound to be amazed by all the vibrant life everywhere in evidence. This is a good way to totally undermine any respect these kids might have for their alarmist parents. Let’s encourage all of them to take their kids to the GBR on diving adventures!

ResourceGuy
November 4, 2021 2:32 pm

Here’s what I said to my kids: stupid, stupid, stupid!!

Oh and high school level debate manipulation for style points

November 4, 2021 2:37 pm

Telling kids they are likely to die a horrible death should never be a part of childhood, even if the horror is real.”

Teaching kids about the Holocaust is normal here in the states. As are visits to the Holocaust museum.

What is missing are two things.

  • a) Definition of Nationalist Socialist. One of the reasons leftists keep painting national socialists as right wing conservatives.
  • b) What it took to defeat the maniacs behind the Holocaust.

It is absurd, but there are quite a few folks whose minds dwell and revel in darkness.
Even apparently successful alarmist researchers can be clinically depressed.

Severely depressed folks are all too happy to share their dark worlds with anyone who will listen, e.g. any hapless children in their sphere.

Odds are these same people are the first to tell children their favorite holiday heroes do not exist.
They’re just such happy families.

Fretting about the darkness in their minds and the darkness they cause their families, friends and other gullible listeners is taking a step towards that darkness. These twisted people need professional help.
Curing serious depression is difficult and often impossible.

HotScot
Reply to  ATheoK
November 4, 2021 3:41 pm

Most kids in the UK grow up not knowing the difference between a socialist and a conservative. In fact most of them don’t have a clue about politics and yet it’s a subject that runs all our lives.

When I grew up in the 1970’s I hadn’t a clue about money, nor did any other kid I knew. I didn’t know anything about a mortgage until I had to get one in my mid 20’s.

Our education system is happy to accept this and instead, fill children’s heads with CRT, gender studies, climate change and a raft of other insidious concepts.

For generations we have sent our kids out into adult life ill equipped to deal with it. Most of them now can barely open a can of beans, a pizza delivery is about as good as it gets.

I was never taught about the Holocaust nor about WW2 and that only finished 25 years or so before I went to secondary school. I intuitively learned of the evils of the Third Reich from comic books of the time, which were understandably partisan.

The UK has not historically done well by it’s children.

saveenergy
Reply to  HotScot
November 4, 2021 4:46 pm

“Most kids in the UK grow up not knowing the difference between a socialist and a conservative.”

With the present lineup in Westminster, nether can I. They all want the best … for themselves & the plebs can pay for it all.

Gunga Din
Reply to  HotScot
November 4, 2021 5:34 pm

Germany invaded Poland from the east and Great Britain and France declared war on Germany.
Less than 3 weeks later Russia invaded Poland from the west.
No one declared war on Russia.
(Lot’s of odd political stuff going on. Germany and Russia had agreed to split Poland.)
Russia wasn’t an “allie” until Germany invaded Russia after Germany failed to invade Great Britain.
Yet, as an allie, Russia never declared war on Japan until after the first A-Bomb was dropped.

Last edited 1 month ago by Gunga Din
Pamela Matlack-Klein
Reply to  HotScot
November 5, 2021 3:56 am

Recently a Broward County, Florida, school board member took a group of elementary school students to a famous gay BAR on a field trip. Taking minors to a bar shows questionable judgement at the best of times but I have to wonder exactly what lesson this woman was aiming to impart to the class. Youngsters today are getting entirely too much pressure to perform/behave as the “responsible” adults around them think is proper. They need to just STOP, let kids grow up and decide on their own what pronouns they want to embrace.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  ATheoK
November 4, 2021 5:08 pm

Teaching kids about the Holocaust is normal here in the states …

And what about Stalin’s comparable ‘Great Terror’ in Soviet Russia and the deliberately induced famine in Ukraine?

Last edited 1 month ago by Chris Hanley
Lil-Mike
Reply to  Chris Hanley
November 4, 2021 6:40 pm

Radio silence on the horrors of communism and socialism. The Nazis were bad people, right wing anti socialist types … despite somehow being socialists.

Never were the Axis Powers (USSR, Nazi Germany, & Fascist Italy) tied by their socialist/communist ideologies.

Christina
November 4, 2021 2:42 pm

Now should I keep supporting parents’ right to educate their children in their own beliefs?
If I defend my right to teach my kids heresies like biology and, God forbid, history including the MVP, I am also defending those parents’ right to saddle their children with climate anxiety and depression. Or to educate them in hypocrisy.

Nick Schroeder
November 4, 2021 2:42 pm

“When ideas go unexamined and unchallenged for a long enough time, they become mythological and very, very powerful. They create conformity. They intimidate.”
E. L. Doctorow in conversation with Bill Moyers, 1989

And to quote Oppenheimer,
“There must be no barriers for freedom of inquiry. There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors.”
 
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
—Carl Sagan, astronomer and writer (1934-1996)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.-Carl Sagan
It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.-Carl Sagan
The cure for a fallacious argument is a better argument, not the suppression of ideas.-Carl Sagan
If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth.-Carl Sagan
There are no forbidden questions in science, no matters too sensitive or delicate to be probed, no sacred truths.-Carl Sagan

John Tillman
Reply to  Nick Schroeder
November 4, 2021 2:55 pm

Sagan’s “nuclear winter” hoax was practice for CACA.

George Daddis
Reply to  Nick Schroeder
November 4, 2021 4:22 pm

Variation of the Stockholm syndrome?

layor nala
November 4, 2021 2:47 pm

Interesting. They are prepared to talk to their kids about the myths of climate change but not let them enjoy the myths surrounding Santa Claus or the tooth fairy! I still recall the looks of utter joy when we talked about the latter myths to our children and grandchildren and the looks of absolute anticipation on their faces.

HotScot
Reply to  layor nala
November 4, 2021 3:49 pm

Perpetuating the myth of Santa is good for kids. It sets them up with many skills e.g. questioning what they hear from their parents and what they hear from their peers.

It makes them think about an abstract concept and question their own beliefs. It introduces them to common sense e.g. how does a fat bloke get down a tiny chimney?, how does he get into a house with no chimney? Why doesn’t the dog bark? Why am I never on the naughty list?

Best Christmas movie ever: Elf.

Derg
Reply to  HotScot
November 4, 2021 6:18 pm

+ 1 Elf

“Buddy the elf what’s your favorite color?”

Max More
Reply to  HotScot
November 4, 2021 7:27 pm

For the same reason, I like the tradition of April Fool’s Day. It does at least something to encourage critical thinking.

When I was very little, I remember deliberately staying awake with a tooth under my pillow to see who came to replace it with money. I caught my dad.

Nick B.
November 4, 2021 2:58 pm

Off topic.
What happened to essay idea?
I don’t see any contest page.
Thanks.

Richard Page
Reply to  Nick B.
November 5, 2021 5:33 pm

It’s at the bottom of every page.

November 4, 2021 3:04 pm

At least, if we all become extinct, these poor kiddies will not have to listen to their monster raving loony parents going on and on about ‘Global Warming‘ and ‘Climate Change’ anymore.

John the Econ
November 4, 2021 3:07 pm

These parents are guilty of child abuse.

I came of age during the latter years of the Cold War with the knowledge that Russian nuclear missiles could be raining down upon us at any time with little to no warning, and yet we lived our lives and thrived.

Dennis S
November 4, 2021 3:18 pm

So they start out telling a lie about the dinosaurs, it was not climate change that killed the dinosaurs, it was a nearly instantaneous environmental change caused by an asteroid impact. Hardly comparable to human induced catastrophic climate change theory.

H.R.
Reply to  Dennis S
November 4, 2021 9:32 pm

Ya think maybe they read Stephen King novels to their kiddies at bedtime?

MarkW
November 4, 2021 3:18 pm

Climate change killed the dinosaurs?
That 7 mile wide asteroid had nothing to do with it?

Nick B.
Reply to  MarkW
November 4, 2021 5:13 pm

Asteroid was a cause of momentarily climate change.

Rasa
November 4, 2021 3:24 pm

Climate Scientist would have to be the ultimate OxyMoron…?
Imagine being born to Climate “scientist” parents.
I have heard in such cases the Doctor slaps the mother instead of the baby?

chickenhawk
November 4, 2021 3:58 pm

The real question is, “How much time do the kids have left?”

Sorry to break it to ya kids, but don’t bother studying anymore. Might as well party like it’s 1999, or whatever year preceded the extinction event for our thunder lizard ancestors.

PaulH
November 4, 2021 4:16 pm

Perhaps we shouldn’t be tormenting young people with unfounded threats of an abysmal future.

Suicide is the second leading cause of death among people ages 10-24 and has been increasing every year since 2007

H.R.
Reply to  PaulH
November 4, 2021 9:40 pm

I had to upvote you for the link, PaulH. But I can’t upvote the content there. It’s more than sad.

Climate Doom & Gloom Alarmism is more like an evil malaise when it has been deliberately hammered into children.

Oh it’s gonna get warm alright – hot even – in that special place reserved for those that indoctrinate children with unfounded terrors.

Abolition Man
Reply to  H.R.
November 5, 2021 2:39 am

Some claim that the young people designated for living sacrifice in Aztec ceremonies were happy and proud of their lot! I’ll bet that they weren’t too upset when recently captured warriors from surrounding cultures were available instead, but maybe they felt guilty for their change in fortune; temporary or not!
There are too many different outcomes from child abuse to easily catalogue, yet one thing stands clear; the vast majority show great harm! Whether physical or psychological, the abuse of children leads to increases in harm to self and others; and so the cycle of abuse grows!
The children of these “scientists” have all the love and caring of a Branch Covidian parent, who happily isolates, masks, and “vaccinates” their child; even though the data shows the child’s chance of harm is statistically zero! Their religion, like many doomsday cults, seems to revolve around the sacrifice of others; even kids!

Last edited 1 month ago by Abolition Man
PaulH
Reply to  H.R.
November 5, 2021 1:01 pm

Yes, youth suicide is a very grim subject. I don’t know why the researchers chose 2007 as a starting point. Perhaps the increase became apparent based on reporting or other factors. I hesitate to note that the first iPhone was released in 2007 and social media began its ascent around the same time.

George Daddis
November 4, 2021 4:17 pm

I think you are all missing the most frightening quote:
 I don’t want to get in there and scare them and say, ‘you’re all doomed, you’re all gonna die’.

My inference is that this “scientist” actually believes that there is a possibility his children are doomed and will die (unless we…[fill in the blank]..).

Do the math; for a 10 year old, that would require a catastrophic event before the turn of the next century. What is the “science” behind that?

The related question is what “science” supports the notion of a “tipping point”? Hasn’t the earth experienced both higher temps and higher CO2 levels without catastrophe? (Certainly a 1 degree C increase in temp in a century are not going to “doom” his kids or relatives.)

BTW, what should his parents (and their parents before them) have done differently to avoid this Armageddon? Use horses for transportation instead of automobiles? Voted for Green candidates in 1850?

We show them “evidence of Climate Change, for example coral reefs”. I’ll leave that one to the experts (Peter Ridd?) But I must say, growing up on the Jersey shore (US) seeing the occasional dead fish washed up on the beach did not alert me to the fact that Climate Change was “decimating” the fisheries.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  George Daddis
November 5, 2021 7:04 am

“My inference is that this “scientist” actually believes that there is a possibility his children are doomed and will die (unless we…[fill in the blank]..).”

No doubt about it. This climate scientist is as delusional as any of the alarmists. How do I know? Because he is afraid of something for which there is absolutely no evidence. CO2 is not doing what this person thinks it is doing. His head is full of alarmist propaganda, and he is oblivious to it.

It’s not good for a scientist to be oblivious. It’s not good for his kids, either.

Len Werner
November 4, 2021 4:26 pm

Recommended reading for any frightened child would be The Purchase Of The North Pole by Jules Verne. Therein lies a delightful premonition for being afraid of the predictions of the doomsayers of Climate Change.

November 4, 2021 4:47 pm

And I said ‘well, you know, they died out’. ‘Why did they die out?’ ‘Well, climate change?’ ‘Okay, how did the climate change…’ 

Rather than hyperbole, I’ll offer a prosaic description of the Conversation; it is a despicable rag! That diabolical “parent” might have thought to frighten his child more by mentioning that the dinosaur era enjoyed five times the CO2 levels and thrived in that fecund world before succumbing to a random disaster that could befall us all at any moment! ;-(

Craig from Oz
November 4, 2021 4:55 pm

Those children look malnourished. The girl back left does not even have enough attention span to look at the camera long enough to allow the photo to be taken.

Personally I also feel the ‘Youth’ need to take more ownership of the problem. It is no point ‘old’ people try and deal with the issues as most of them will be drooling messes who think they are the president or dead before 2050.

The people who need to take the action are the people are going to not only be alive in 2050, but be in the prime of their lives and best able to take advantage of all the good work they did when younger.

So how do we do this?

TAX THE YOUNG.

There needs to be a new tax for futures. It can start at a flat $10000 a year and drop by $100 for ever year of age.

So at age 15 you will need to pay $8500, age 50 would be $5000 and if you get past 100 you actually start getting paid cause, hey, you deserve it.

If Youth are REALLY wanting to prepare for THEIR future they need to put up or shut up.

And eat some PROTEIN. Seriously those kids in the photo look abused.

DocSiders
November 4, 2021 5:00 pm

Nah…No actual Scientist can see any Climate Related extinction events on the horizon.

Climate Activist “Scientists” know that they are lying Activists (lying for the cause and for lots of easy money…as good comrades).

If they ARE traumatizing their children with tales of horrible Climate deaths, they are not just disgusting lying Political Globalist Socialist Activists…they are sadistic, and likely criminal, child abusers. Worthy of some torture themselves.

Victor
November 4, 2021 5:30 pm

Did you expect any constructive conversation between a nihilist and a trusting child?
They are trying diligently to bring about the apocalypse by obstructing any viable solution to the problem they seem to treasure.

Joel Snider
November 4, 2021 5:40 pm

At this point, progressives have sunk so low, this sort of thing doesn’t even raise an eyebrow with me.
We are being governed by the most detestable people on the planet.

Joe Gordon
November 4, 2021 5:47 pm

It’s an interesting twist on the age-old Armageddon stuff. The religious zealots likely feel the dinosaurs never existed in the first place (the fossils were invented, or a divine way to screw with scientists). But not much difference between the groups when it comes to legitimacy.

Victor
November 4, 2021 6:14 pm

The photo shows a group of kids who look like they are dour and unhappy.

Giordano Milton
November 4, 2021 7:04 pm

“We’re Going to Die Like the Dinosaurs”
Who knows? Maybe. You never know when that undetected hunk of rock might fall

Max More
November 4, 2021 7:05 pm

If the alarmists think it’s going to be so bad, WHY ARE THEY HAVING CHILDREN?

n.n
November 4, 2021 7:26 pm

Climate of Diversity: affirmative discrimination of People of Brown, People of Yellow, People of Orange, and other color blocs.

Last edited 1 month ago by n.n
Rhs
November 4, 2021 8:04 pm

Feeling dense, if dinosaurs roamed for millions of years, didn’t the vast majority die of old age, disease, became food for other dinosaurs? If so, what is there to really worry about?

Pat from kerbob
November 4, 2021 8:06 pm

I have been saying this for a while
We need to start treating these people like pedophiles.
Child abuse

The damage being done to kids over what is likely going to be nothing should be a criminal offense, the equivalent of yelling FIRE in a crowded theater.

michael hart
November 4, 2021 10:11 pm

“Daddy, where do baby climate-scientists come from?”

“Well, when a mummy dinosaur and a daddy dinosaur love each other very much….”

Michael
November 4, 2021 10:14 pm

Catastrophic AGW climate alarm being lumped in with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy seems pretty spot on.

Stephen W
November 4, 2021 11:05 pm

Their shirts.. stable climate is a constitutional right??
A stable climate has never even existed, let alone be the expectation.

These people are the real climate change deniers.

Vincent Causey
November 5, 2021 1:09 am

What will these children think of their parents when they are old, and the whole climate scare is seen for what it is – the ravings of madmen and the exploitations of charlatans and rent seekers?

James Bull
November 5, 2021 1:29 am

This is child abuse just as much as what parents are removing their children from school to protect them from and getting themselves labeled as domestic terrorists (in the US) if they ask questions about what their children are being taught.
Why would anyone teach children perverted sex when they are only 5 or 6 years old?
Those with an agenda to destroy society don’t care about anything but what they want and pushing these things on children too young to know different makes my blood boil.
To any pushing these sort of things I have one quote.

It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied round his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.

Luke:17:2

James Bull

Abolition Man
Reply to  James Bull
November 5, 2021 3:15 am

James,
Like all good Marxists, they believe the ends justify the means!
America rapidly grew to world hegemony because there were large numbers of patriotic citizens that believed in God, family, tribe, self and then country! This appears to build the strongest society as the family, not the individual, is the real building block of a culture! Without property rights and the rule of law, handed down from God according to our founders, prosperity is almost impossible to attain except for the privileged few!
The obverse side of the coin is to believe in the State, the bureaucracy, the governed, and then the individual! There is no room for God or family in such a system as they both take power away from the elites, who are always covetous of their “rights!”
The early Socialists, later Communists, tried to denigrate economic liberty by labeling it capitalism; but far more than the “capitalist” prosper when the market is open to innovation and the movement of labor! It’s kind of a hard sell to convince someone that giving up their liberty and prosperity will make them happier; but the Marxists have been working that con for over a century now! In the same way that DemoKKKrats have been selling segregation and racism as the cure for income inequality and racism for decades now!
Child abuse, which has devastating effects on the family, is more a feature than a bug to them!

Simple Si
November 5, 2021 1:33 am

Climate alarmism is a cult religion. This how high control groups like Jehovahs Witnesses and the Mormons control their children – by fear and terror. “And don’t you dare go and research and think for yourself young man.”

JohnC
November 5, 2021 2:44 am

Of course not all dinosaurs became extinct, birds are still around who descended from them.

JohnC
November 5, 2021 2:47 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59172936 awards now for climate activists in schools

Peter Plail
November 5, 2021 2:53 am

It took the dinosaurs slightly longer than 12years to die out.

Alba
November 5, 2021 3:04 am

How come in a picture of nine children there is only, possibly, one white boy? I say possibly because the one that might be a boy could be a girl. It’s difficult to tell. There certainly isn’t any gender balance. Are girls supposed to be more worried about “climate change”? Are climate scientists supposed to have more girls than boys?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Alba
November 5, 2021 7:12 am

“How come in a picture of nine children there is only, possibly, one white boy?”

That’s because the people handling advertising nowadays want to eliminate white people from the conversation, and especially want to eliminate white men from the conversation.

They want to pretend that whites are a minority (in the U.S. and Europe) because that’s the way they wish things were.

White people are the source of all evil in the world, don’t you know. They must be eliminated, if not literally, then figuratively.

We see this kind of presentation all the time now. The radical Left controls the Media, that’s why.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Sara
November 5, 2021 3:14 am

We still have dinosaurs here on this planet. The coelacanth, for example, is more ancient than most of our politicians and probably less annoying. And the moa, an extremely nasty flightless bird, is still in existence.

it wasn’t climate change (whatever THAT is) that bumped off the dinosaurs. Every genetic mutation has its limits, from start to ending. THAT is how it works.

It’s more likely that dinosaurs ran out of food resources than anything else, although we do have a couple of them in WDC these days.

Birds are supposed to be the last remnants of the dinosaurs, anyway.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sara
Joseph Zorzin
November 5, 2021 3:36 am

”  ‘where are the dinosaurs now?’ And I said ‘well, you know, they died out’. ‘Why did they die out?’ ‘Well, climate change?’ “

That’s absurd.

Loren Wilson
November 5, 2021 4:39 am

The dinosaurs were extremely successful as a group, with many species lasting many times longer than we have so far, and were killed by a cataclysmic event rather than a slow increase of CO2 that is still on the low side of normal for this planet. Much more optimistic than the prediction we blow ourselves up in a nuclear war.

Ryan
November 5, 2021 4:46 am

We are all going to die from a virus we created way before any climate change could get to us.

Ed Zuiderwijk
November 5, 2021 5:28 am

Fast forward 30 years. The kids have grown up, the climate hasn’t done anything it didn’t do before and daddy is widely regarded as having been a quack. The horror stories his kids will tell him about care homes.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
November 5, 2021 7:16 am

I think that’s the future. A lot of disillusioned youth, who are wondering just who they can believe, after Doomsdays doesn’t show up.

Ed Zuiderwijk
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 5, 2021 9:01 am

Perhaps, but maybe they grow out of it. Once they realise that they have been told porkies most will learn to rely on their own judgement. Learning who the charlatans are and how they operate is a very useful lesson of life.

I myself am of the generation force-fed the doom and gloom of the Club of Rome and wss very worried. Then I discovered women and realised there were much more direct and interesting problems to engage with.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 5, 2021 4:20 pm

Hopefully their chances of survival will be better than the Jim Jones followers, the Manson family, and the drug overdose hippies of the 60s/70s.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
November 5, 2021 4:17 pm

I suppose some will realize the con game and move on to the next advocacy parade. Still a few others will learn the subtle techniques of keeping up the climate screams as a leader and extending the predictions out another 25 or 50 years. And maybe a few special ones will go on to found climate megachurches with huge budgets and shuttle buses to pick up the converts for the climate church services and debate-has-ended, anti-science process baptisms at the altar of Gaia.

Tom Abbott
November 5, 2021 5:35 am

From the article: “Maybe I’m misinterpreting what I’m reading, but the uppermost thought in my mind after reading this was, who needs a climate catastrophe when you have parents like that? In my opinion this just seems so wrong.”

It’s so wrong because those alarmist climate scientists don’t know what they are talking about. There is no evidence CO2 is doing any of the things they think it is doing.

I don’t see how you get good science out of someone who is so delusional.

Michael Mann must be so prooud.

Cubbie Roo
November 5, 2021 6:40 am

It’s hardly any wonder there has been such a huge spike in mental health issues in the Gen-Y and Gen-Z demographic; they have grown up spoonfed with the story that their future will be horrible, and no respite in the media either, where Secular Millenarianism has swept away any semblance of balance. And in this age of ‘cancel culture’ they are probably too afraid to ask inconvenient questions in-case they get cancelled. O best of all worlds, where art thou.

Olen
November 5, 2021 7:19 am

What would motivate an adult to talk to children like that, self gratification or to talk to a child who has not developed their adult personality.

Whatever the reason it is wrong and converting children through fear to their cause is despicable.

ResourceGuy
November 5, 2021 7:39 am

Act up and you can be rich and famous like Greta! Remember to pick a winner for the T-shirt, that’s very important.

John Robertson
November 5, 2021 10:39 am

If the adults hate themselves,their children are born at a disadvantage.
Hopefully when they become rebellious teenagers they will have friends who help them break free.
Funny how everything these do gooders do,seeks to extinguish their own future.
Yet they will not restrict their misery to themselves..
Misery loves company.
Pray for their children,but never turn your back on them.

November 5, 2021 2:40 pm

That escalated quickly.

ResourceGuy
November 5, 2021 4:52 pm

Send them out individually on a Chinese fishing fleet for a real education.

November 6, 2021 1:14 am

My eldest has constantly been asking questions like ‘where are the dinosaurs now?’ And I said ‘well, you know, they died out’. ‘Why did they die out?’ ‘Well, climate change?’ “

Yes indeed that’s because dinosaurs were fragile, unlike humans they had poor adaptability to adverse climate conditions. It took them about a short million years or so to completely die out worldwide (see https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24432511-200-end-of-an-era-how-long-did-it-take-the-dinosaurs-to-die-out/ )

ozspeaksup
November 6, 2021 3:46 am

and we wonder why? kids as young as five are handed antidepressants?
removing them to saner homes might be better for them

Old.George
November 6, 2021 4:13 am

How will the human race end? (1) By sudden catastrophe. or (2) By some slow-moving disaster.
In the first case we do, indeed, mimic dinos. In the second we mimic Neanderthals.
In any case the environment changed, so nature selected which gene pools would survive.

(1) Asteroid. Volcano. Electric grid. War. Earthquake. Tsunami. Disease.
(2) Climate. Pollution. Sea level.
And on both lists: Unknown unknowns.

Nik
November 7, 2021 2:04 pm

The kids are more likely to die from their teachers who push the great green lie.
10:10 No Pressure – YouTube

spock
November 8, 2021 5:39 pm

What historians will definitely wonder about in future centuries is how deeply flawed logic, obscured by shrewd and unrelenting propaganda, actually enabled a coalition of powerful special interests to convince nearly everyone in the world that CO2 from human industry was a dangerous, planet-destroying toxin. It will be remembered as the greatest mass delusion in the history of the world – that CO2, the life of plants, was considered for a time to be a deadly poison.

Richard Lindzen

Last edited 28 days ago by spock
APL
November 9, 2021 11:33 am

“We’re going to die like dinosaurs”. You know, if we humans can last nearly as long as “dinosaurs”, even short lived species lasting millions of years, we should be pretty happy.

V for Vendetta
November 16, 2021 3:08 am

To be honest, I wouldn’t miss the climate “scientists” and their ilk. If they vanish, this would clean the genetic pool and raise the average IQ.

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