Snow "sheets" above some solar panels; pushed by the rain, they are sloping down folding themselves like real sheets. By Syrio (Own work) [CC BY-SA 4.0], via Wikimedia Commons

Claim: Coal, Gas and Nuclear Plants are Struggling with the Heat of Global Warming

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

According to climate scientists Ethan Coffel and Justin Mankin, we need to replace coal, gas and nuclear plants with solar and wind, because they are less affected by the heat of global warming.

Guest post: How global warming is making power plants produce less electricity

15 February 2021  8:00

Dr Ethan Coffel, assistant professor and climate scientist at Syracuse University

Dr Justin Mankin, assistant professor and climate scientist at Dartmouth College

The coal, gas and nuclear power plants that generate mostof the world’s electricity have to be kept cool in order to function properly. However, this will be increasingly challenging as the world gets warmer.

Waste heat from these facilities is typically released into the atmosphere or nearby water sources. During heatwaves or droughts, excessive heat or a lack of water makes it much harder for plants to be kept cool. 

When this happens, the plants must be curbed, meaning electricity output is cut. This often comes just as electricity demand peaks due to people’s increasing reliance on air conditioning to keep cool.

In a new paper, published in Environmental Research Letters, we find that in a warming world, hundreds of additional power plants would need to be constructed in the coming decades simply to make up for this lost power.

However, this is not the only option. If nations instead focus on technologies such as solar and wind, which produce fewer emissions and are less impacted by hot weather, the electricity sector will be both less of a contributor to – and victim of – climate change.

Read more: https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-how-global-warming-is-making-power-plants-produce-less-electricity

The study predicts an 0.8-1.2% falloff per degree of global warming, so not exactly a pressing emergency.

What about global warming induced severe winter weather? Climate scientists have rushed to assure us the Northern Hemisphere’s deep freeze is not incompatible with global warming. But as Texas recently noticed, solar panels and wind turbines don’t work that well when they are covered with ice.

Perhaps in the warmer future climate scientists expect, when snowfalls and freezing rain are a thing of the past, it might be worth considering solar and wind. But so long as severe winter weather is a possibility, surely it makes more sense to hang on to reliable power generation systems, maybe beef up the cooling systems a little so they can handle more heat in Summer.

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Eric Stevens
February 16, 2021 2:35 pm

Codswallop!

Bryan A
Reply to  Eric Stevens
February 16, 2021 3:04 pm

Hmmm
Texas
Wind and Solar Generating Facilities are Struggling with the Cold of Global Warming
Gas and Nuclear might have a few percent efficiency drop off with an additional degree of warming but Wind and Solar have a 50 – 100% drop off of production with snowfall and extended cold periods … Like WINTER

Randy B
Reply to  Bryan A
February 16, 2021 5:48 pm

Gas turbines are cooled with air that has been heated to over 800 degrees. A one degree C rise over the past 50 years the extent of our global warming is inconsequential. Same with nuclear. Just more BS.

Nick Graves
Reply to  Randy B
February 17, 2021 12:41 am

Yeah – a one-degree rise outside the core of a nuclear reactor might make it go kaboom! Oh, the humanity.

Are these guys really aware of how stupid they are making themselves appear, or really that desperate?

I want a grant to warn Corvette owners their cars’ bodies will melt. Probably.

TonyG
Reply to  Nick Graves
February 17, 2021 2:13 pm

No, they are not, and neither are all the people who listen to them.

Don Mingay
Reply to  Eric Stevens
February 17, 2021 5:29 am

Join the discussion

Don Mingay
Reply to  Don Mingay
February 17, 2021 5:32 am

The first reply by Eric said it all. CODSWALLOP!. No need for the flood of further codswallop in most cases.

February 16, 2021 2:35 pm

And, do wind and solar run better when it’s cold and snowy or wind is missing?

Eisenhower
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 17, 2021 1:14 pm

Like all other semiconductor devices, solar cells are sensitive to temperature. Increases in temperature reduce the bandgap of a semiconductor, thereby effecting most of the semiconductor material parameters. The decrease in the band gap of a semiconductor with increasing temperature can be viewed as increasing the energy of the electrons in the material. Lower energy is therefore needed to break the bond. In the bond model of a semiconductor bandgap, a reduction in the bond energy also reduces the bandgap. Therefore increasing the temperature reduces the bandgap.
In a solar cell, the parameter most affected by an increase in temperature is the open-circuit voltage. The impact of increasing temperature is shown in the figure below.

The open-circuit voltage decreases with temperature reducing panel output. Also inverteres used in wind and PV begin losing efficency at aroud 130 degrees F.

PV Temp.gif
Larry in Texas
February 16, 2021 2:37 pm

These authors have OBVIOUSLY never been to Texas. The timing of this article with the iced-over windmills in West Texas and elsewhere in Texas makes these guys look like complete idiots.

TomO
Reply to  Larry in Texas
February 16, 2021 2:45 pm

Look like – you say?

Given their employment they are likely infecting young minds with the stupid virus.

Training another crop of shallow fruit loop attributionists every year…..

https://youtu.be/5-bNZdAHK-A

Last edited 3 months ago by TomO
Richard M
February 16, 2021 2:37 pm

The warming we have seen has not come from fossil fuels. As this paper from Norway demonstrates, the warming from CO2 is minuscule.

The Influence of IR Absorption and Backscatter Radiation from CO2 on Air Temperature during Heating in a Simulated Earth/Atmosphere Experiment

So, what is causing the warming over the past few centuries if not humans? The answer to that question may very well be …. humans. It’s just the mechanism that is wrong. A new paper, Cheng et al 2021, shows the changes in ocean salinity over the past few decades correlates very well with warming. The paper tries to blame the salinity change on AGW but their argument is so bad it would qualify as “not even wrong”.

The real cause is likely a combination of natural cycles with human use of salt in farming, water treatment, road deicing, etc.

mikebartnz
Reply to  Richard M
February 16, 2021 4:39 pm

I have been around farming all 67 years and the only salt used has been in the house.

gringojay
Reply to  Richard M
February 16, 2021 6:58 pm

Hi Richard M, – “Salinity” is a term referring to soluble minerals, of which there are quite a few. NaCl (sodium chloride) is popularly referred to as “salt”; although Na & Cl ions are certainly involved in salinity they are so as a part of total salinity.

In farming fertilizer formulas commonly include “mineral salts” which are water soluble, although agronomy does not refer to these as salt since mineral salts are more than just NaCl. I think that when reading about “soil salinity” many reflect on the word root “saline” & then mentally associate what read with our everyday salt NaCl.

Last edited 3 months ago by gringojay
Sweet Old Bob
February 16, 2021 2:39 pm

They didn’t check the EPA heat wave index …..
😉

Peter W
February 16, 2021 2:41 pm

Typical bunch of head-in-the-sand garbage by fools who have not actually studied the science and history of climate change, and have no idea what it is all about.

LdB
Reply to  Peter W
February 16, 2021 7:43 pm

Correct the normal temp in a power house is around 50 degrees, only kept to that level for the humans. You know you are dealing with dropkicks who don’t have a clue from that statement on.

Gordo
February 16, 2021 2:42 pm

Wow – somebody better remind these turkeys that solar is way less efficient when it gets hot!

Bryan A
Reply to  Gordo
February 16, 2021 3:06 pm

Absolutely, Solar needs to be cooled as well or you wind up with Wal-Mart rooftop fires

MarkW
Reply to  Gordo
February 16, 2021 5:35 pm

Doesn’t air get less dense as it heats up?

Mr.
Reply to  MarkW
February 16, 2021 7:03 pm

Yep.
But the msm just keeps on getting denser.
(maybe that’s because it could actually be getting cooler?)

Bryan A
Reply to  MarkW
February 16, 2021 8:51 pm

Unfortunately Michael Mann gets More Dense as his education level rises

Tom Abbott
Reply to  MarkW
February 17, 2021 7:20 am

Yes, and a big heatwave consists of a big high-pressure system sitting over the affected area, and when that happens, the winds sometimes go away and the windmills don’t turn.

Lrp
Reply to  Gordo
February 17, 2021 5:45 pm

But these turkeys area scientists, assistant professors, etc

Pillage Idiot
February 16, 2021 2:44 pm

I just love articles from “scientists” that have no clue about their subject matter.

I would be very interested in listening to these two yahoos explain how a natural gas co-generation power plant works.

Steve Case
February 16, 2021 2:45 pm

And if you clean the bugs off your windshield, air resistance will be less, and you’ll get better mileage.

Tim Gorman
February 16, 2021 2:49 pm

These jokers are idiots that have bought into the false claim that max temps are going up. They aren’t! Minimum temps are going up. That is what is increasing the mid-range values being propagated by the AGW crowd. If a plant will work during daytime temps then it will certainly work during nighttime temps under any foreseeable increase in min temps!

Reply to  Tim Gorman
February 16, 2021 2:53 pm

The last European near blackout in January is said to happen because of downgoing temperatures affecting French nuclear power plants.

Chris Morris
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 16, 2021 2:56 pm

The near blackout I thought was caused by an overloaded grid transporting the power and a big unit’s trip in Bularia.

Reply to  Chris Morris
February 16, 2021 3:07 pm

That what I had was one of the first colported reasons, now I read, they had a lot of shutdowns of big customers in France, the split was caused in Rumania.

eck
Reply to  Tim Gorman
February 16, 2021 6:27 pm

“Minimum temps are going up” Exactly! At least, in the U.S., the data is readily available @NIST.gov. Don’t have the link handy but look for NCEI pages.

Andrew Conway
February 16, 2021 2:50 pm

You have to wonder how supposedly intelligent people can come up with such statements, or are they just blinkered by the University narrative

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Andrew Conway
February 17, 2021 7:27 am

We need to define a new category to study: Climate change psychology/delusion.

We need some climate change psychologists to descibe for us the reasons why someone would assume the Earth is getting hotter and hotter, when the actual temperatures tell a different story.

I’ll take a shot at it: One reason someone would make such an unwarranted assumption is because they have been lied to by NASA Climate and NOAA.

Chris Morris
February 16, 2021 2:52 pm

I note the article is written by academics with no real world experience. They aren’t even engineers.

In Australia, a lot of the output of windfarms is reduced when the air temperature goes over 40degC. This is because they overheat.
Which was that ‘mystery DUID’ that apparently ‘can’t stand the heat’*? – WattClarity
And their operation is also suspect in conditions below 2degC because of icing on blades and oil viscosity.

alastair gray
Reply to  Chris Morris
February 16, 2021 3:04 pm

Presumably this twoddle was peer reviewed which speaks volumes about the qualifications of teh reviewers

MarkW
Reply to  alastair gray
February 16, 2021 5:41 pm

Peer review is little more than spell checking.

Rory Forbes
Reply to  MarkW
February 16, 2021 9:47 pm

“Peer review” is, was and always will be no more than a beneficial protocol to maintain quality control of the publisher’s product. It reduces the need for published errata. One thing it does not do is validate the theses of their articles … the thing warmists invariable attribute to this practice.

Real “peer review” is accomplished in the real world like what’s happening daily on these pages, or when other scientists attempt to reproduce the findings

Reply to  Chris Morris
February 16, 2021 3:10 pm

Not even that they got right in their study 😀

Dennis
Reply to  Chris Morris
February 17, 2021 8:00 pm

Solar panels are also impacted by high temperatures, and in Australia most if not all remote area fuel and accommodation stopping places rely on diesel fuelled generators for electricity supply.

Often sighted on the few major roads are “road trains” consisting of a prime mover or tractor pulling up to four trailers of fuel, or other goods.

February 16, 2021 2:55 pm

Tejas is a test, it has provided results,,, how now can we proceed having facts and results,,, the greens can try ,but this weather will occur again and the population needs to save lives not shine BS . Stay with fossil tried and true and acquire more reliable back up .. as in small nuke reactors.. cold now, maybe could get much colder

Steven Pfeiffer
February 16, 2021 2:57 pm

These geniuses failed to take into account that utility-scale power plants (at least here in the US) use cooling towers for heat rejection to the atmosphere.

Cooling towers reject heat by evaporation, and the capacity is dependent almost entirely upon the moisture content of the ambient air, not the temperature.

I find it awfully hard to believe that a degree or two increase in the design dry-bulb temperature, if it even ever happens, will have any impact on the ability of cooling towers to reject heat.

In fact as the dry-bulb temperature of the ambient air increases (all other things equal) the ability of the ambient air to absorb moisture will increase.

Dean
Reply to  Steven Pfeiffer
February 16, 2021 6:10 pm

Well you know these things are designed to only ever run in ideal conditions. Engineers never ever use things like Factors of Safety in designs, or design for out of normal conditions.

Duh

John
February 16, 2021 3:04 pm

Hence Associate Professors!

Peter W Watson
February 16, 2021 3:06 pm

How are the wond Turbines in Texas today? Frozen solid. What happens when it gets cold?
Build nuclear plants and drill oil and gas and put these Green Loonies in a rubber room in a quiet little village in El Salvador.

a_scientist
February 16, 2021 3:06 pm

Uh, No..
Wind is affected by weather. The recent cold snap has paralyzed Texas. But what about warmer temps you ask?

In August 2019, Texas spot power prices hit the same 9000$/ MW-Hr when winds were weak and a coal plant was retired.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-15/scorching-texas-declares-second-power-emergency-in-three-days

https://www.americanexperiment.org/2019/08/bloomberg-lack-wind-causes-texas-electricity-prices-skyrocket-40000/

Hotter weather can kill your wind power as well as cold. The darn stuff is just INTERMITTENT !

Last edited 3 months ago by a_scientist
February 16, 2021 3:10 pm

Ethan and Justin could power their homes now with their own windmill and solar panels….I bet they have not done so.

Michael E McHenry
February 16, 2021 3:13 pm

Didn’t any of these climate scientists study thermodynamics!? Power plants are cooled with water not air. Air has a puny heat content and can’t possibly effect the temperature of water, What jerks

Reply to  Michael E McHenry
February 16, 2021 3:28 pm

But in a warmer world, when cooling with water there are 2 dangers, high water temperatures, and low water level, both may cause a shut down of a water cooled plant.

Michael E McHenry
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 16, 2021 5:05 pm

At room temperature water has 3200 times the heat content as air. Water temperature therefore will not be
increased by air. That’s the laws of thermodynamics Why would water levels be low.?

Reply to  Michael E McHenry
February 17, 2021 1:27 am

After reactor 2 at the Swedish Ringhals nuclear power plant had been running at reduced capacity since Monday 30 July, it was closed down completely Tuesday afternoon.

The continued warm weather in Sweden has brought the sea water close to 25 degrees during recent days. To maintain cooling capacity at Ringhals’ production facilities, sea water is used for cooling of various systems and components in the process. The sea water used for cooling Ringhals 2 has now reached a temperature that makes it necessary to take the reactor out of operation.
– When the water becomes warmer, its cooling capacity is reduced and in order for us to keep the necessary cooling capacity for the various systems with a good safety margin, we now have to take Ringhals 2 out of operation, says Sven-Anders Andersson, Head of production at Ringhals.
Ringhals 3 and 4 are still producing normally, and Ringhals 1 is presently closed down for scheduled maintenance. Each reactor has a maximum permissible value for the sea water temperature. For Ringhals 2 it is 25 degrees.



Reply to  Eric Worrall
February 17, 2021 2:01 am

No problems with adapting to changed circumstances, but what I said was about the status quo.
I know that in the 90th, they had to exchange the condensers for cooling plants and systems for better working.
Until than, there where days, they had to cool down the roof condensers with water.

Michael E McHenry
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 17, 2021 4:40 am

Changes nothing I said. Even if air temperatures were 10 degrees above normal this would only cause a small rise in water temperature, Sea water principally rises in temperature through the direct absorption of sunlight. I see this was 2018 perhaps there was unusual clear weather then.

Reply to  Michael E McHenry
February 17, 2021 5:38 am

What you said is correct, nevertheless watertemperatures in rivers are able to rise with sunshine duration, just when the levels are decreasing and waterflow is slower.
That’s what I’m able to observe living some meters away from Rhine border, swinging in sommer is possible, the other seasons not.

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 16, 2021 5:38 pm

Warmer world is wetter.
No getting around it.
It has always been true, and always will be true.

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 17, 2021 1:30 am

Warm sea water in Finland reduces power from Loviisa nuclear plant
Finland’s Loviisa power plant, consisting of two reactors with a combined capacity of 1 gigawatt, had to reduce power by 170 megawatts on Wednesday as the sea water that is used to cool the reactors had become too warm, operator Fortum said.
Because of the very warm temperatures the Nordic region is currently experiencing, the sea water that is collected to cool the Loviisa reactors is warmer and the water released is also warmer, at 32 degrees Celsius on Wednesday.
Releasing hot water back to the sea after cooling the reactors could be a hazard and if it exceeds 34 degrees Fortum said the reactors must be shut down due to regulations.



LdB
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 16, 2021 7:46 pm

So name any power plant which runs without a stable supply of water … just one???

The comment gets idiot of the week award.

Reply to  LdB
February 17, 2021 1:22 am

The quality of your answer is at least at the level of griff or Loydo.

What warms water ? Maybe the sun, maybe warmed water from industrial cooling reflow from industries along a river ?
You know, in summer you can swim in river Rhine, not in spring, fall or winter.

Low River Water Could Cause Problems for German Coal Power Plants
German utility RWE warned energy markets this week that low water levels on the Rhine River may affect the delivery of hard coal to some of its plants, although no power production has yet been affected.
An October 17 Platts report quotes an RWE spokeswoman as saying on Monday, “Continued low river levels are increasingly a challenge for transporting the coal [by river barge from the ARA region].”
Plants that could be affected include Bergkamen, Gersteinwerk, and Westfalen.

One problem for plants caused by low water.

An other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxLd3z2PhSo

Further:
Nuclear power plant in Germany on verge of getting switched off due to heat wave
A nuclear power plant in northern Germany has come to the verge of being taken off the grid on Friday, a Lower Saxony state environment ministry spokesperson told Clean Energy Wire. The ministry on Thursday had said the Grohnde nuclear plant near Hannover would likely be taken offline, as high temperatures were excessively warming a river used for the plant’s cooling system, and should be started up again once the heat wave that has hit Germany and other European countries with unprecedented temperatures has abated. On Friday, the plant’s operator, Preussen Elektra had informed the ministry that water temperatures were not rising as quickly as expected. However, precautions for a possible shutdown were taken nonetheless, the operator said. The river Weser, into which the plant’s cooling water is discharged, is suffering low water levels and has warmed to above 26 degrees Celsius. Additional heat from the nuclear reactor could damage the river’s ecosystem, the ministry said.

Influence of cooling water temperature on the efficiency of a pressurized‐water reactor nuclear‐power plant
The main findings of the paper is that the impact of 1°C increase in temperature of the coolant extracted from environment is predicted to yield a decrease of ∼0.45 and ∼0.12% in the power output and the thermal efficiency of the pressurized-water reactor nuclear-power plant considered, respectively.

The next time, you and the others answering my comment reflect a bit about what happens in the world surrounding you.

Last edited 3 months ago by Krishna Gans
Gums
February 16, 2021 3:16 pm

Salute!

Texas needs to be the poster boy for the renewable reliability, and Texas also has many coal plants still operating. I see them every summer driving to Colorado on 287 and hundreds of windmills each side of the highway. Granted, on the hot days of summer that wind is blowing and helping with all the folks’ airconditioners that they didn’t use 50 or 60 years ago. Ditto for the hot sun panels.

But then comes winter! This storm is the best example so far for too much relaiance on the renewables that cannot store excess energy by some means or another.

If I controlled the grant money, I would require the clueless academicians to live using their idea of how cheap and effective and reliable the windmills and solar panels work. And also require them to drive pure electric vehicles, no hybrids. After a few weeks in the winter they would likely die, not just suffer and learn to build a fire.

Oh well, I can dream, huh?

Gums sends…

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Gums
February 17, 2021 7:41 am

“Texas needs to be the poster boy for the renewable reliability”

I think they just became the poster boy for unreliable electrical power in the form of windmills and solar.

Any sensible person can now see that windmills and industrial solar are not suited to providing baseline electrical power for the nation.

If the alarmists insist on trying to reduce CO2 output then nuclear power generation is the only viable option for them, and for the rest of us.

Windmills and industrial solar are deadends. They are niche power generation options The pubic should not have to subsidized these industries, they should succeed or fail on their own.

Texas had windmills producing 23 percent of their electrical power, and we see what happens when most of that becomes inoperable. A disaster ensues.

And we all thought Germany and California would be providing us this lesson about unreliable electricity generation. As they say, “Everything is Bigger in Texas!”

TonyG
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 17, 2021 2:24 pm

We’re now being told that the “Green New Deal” would have prevented this.

siamiam
February 16, 2021 3:29 pm

These guys are spot on.
On those hot dry summer days when the citrus leaves were curled even in the mornings, I’d call FPL and demand they shut down St. Lucie 1&2. I don’t think they paid me any attention. If only they(Coffel & Mankin) had been around to explain things.

Peter Fraser
February 16, 2021 4:01 pm

A PhD in claptrap. Obviously not an engineer. What a load of codswallop

Nicholas McGinley
Reply to  Peter Fraser
February 16, 2021 5:44 pm

Well, at least they made sure to include plenty of hogwash, poppycock, and some good old-fashioned horseshit with the flapdoodle.
I mean codswallop.

Last edited 3 months ago by Nicholas McGinley
fred250
Reply to  Peter Fraser
February 16, 2021 11:28 pm

Neither has the slightest bit of real engineering in their background.

They are basically CLUELESS about the topic they are talking about.

The fact they got away with this suppository BS and got it through peer-review really reflect badly on all involved.

Detengineer
February 16, 2021 4:35 pm

This is some nuclear grade ignorance.

Q = U*A*(Th – Tc)

If the cold side temperature goes up (Tc), just make the area bigger (A)

All refineries have more or less the same processes that run at the same temperatures. Northern refineries have small cooling towers, southern refineries have big cooling towers. I’ve worked in Texas and up north – no issues with temperatures in either place.

So (cough cough), if temperatures just happen to go up, make the cooling towers bigger. Crisis averted. Where is my honorarium for solving this world-shaking problem?

Kit P
Reply to  Detengineer
February 16, 2021 6:18 pm

Northern refineries have small cooling towers, southern refineries have big cooling towers. 

A little bit of bit of a simplification but pretty much true.

Hundreds of power plant will have to be built because the get old.

I was a power plant engineer. All power plants struggle to keep on line in extreme weather. I can think of no exceptions.

One of the reasons nuke plants in the US produce more power is power uprates. Basically cooling system design margins are used. So on some days, the plant can only produce the original rated power.

Another misconception about steam plants is that they are massive. Only the output is massive.

Wind and solar require large footprints. Life cycle emissions are not lower. They may appear to be lower when college professors do they calculations based on ‘expected’ output. However, wind and solar never produce expected power. I expect zero to be produced.

So during the hypothetical period for temperature to increase, hundreds of steam plants will get built. Not a big problem.

Millions of wind and solar projects will need to be built. Not possible.

At some point the fall apart rate will exceed the build rate.

mikebartnz
February 16, 2021 4:36 pm

The insanity has gone too far

Joel O'Bryan
February 16, 2021 5:28 pm

The level of stupid from Dr Ethan Coffel and Dr Justin Mankin is off-the-charts. Is that what they call critical thinking at Syracuse U and Dartmouth? Pathetic. Clearly these two are merely in search of rent, i.e. grants and tenure by adhering to the climate dogma to make up that shit.
I mean really, no one with a PhD at an Ivy League school could really consider 1 to 2 degrees of global warming as having any real effect on modern power generation stations that have design and professional engineering staffs that are certainly more competent and intelligent that those to IYI’s. Those likely two took up a climate science career because they couldn’t hack it in a real engineering track.

Last edited 3 months ago by joelobryan
Chad W Jessup
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
February 16, 2021 9:53 pm

Also, the 1 to 2 degree increase is driven by higher low temperatures.

MarkW
February 16, 2021 5:32 pm

If the climate does warm by a degree or two, then all the plant managers would have to do is increase the size of the cooling towers by a couple of inches to compensate.

Rick C
Reply to  MarkW
February 16, 2021 7:21 pm

I think you’d find that every modern thermal plant has sensors monitoring return water temperature and flow rate and automatic controls to keep both in a specified range as weather conditions change. The technology isn’t that complicated.

fred250
Reply to  Rick C
February 16, 2021 11:34 pm

most cooling towers already have fan assist..

if not, just add some fans.

Its not rocket science.. just basic engineering that these clowns are OBLIVIOUS to.

fred250
Reply to  MarkW
February 16, 2021 11:32 pm

Just adjust the fan revolutions,

Seriously……….

….. how can these clowns be SO IGNORANT and still get published !!!

Nicholas McGinley
February 16, 2021 5:34 pm

Amazing that making stuff up and claiming it is real now counts as science.

Nicholas McGinley
February 16, 2021 5:46 pm

Didn’t some other guys just get done telling us global warming makes it colder?

Reply to  Nicholas McGinley
February 17, 2021 6:06 am

These guys were deplorable Rahmstorf and Levermann, yes.

Dean
February 16, 2021 6:07 pm

Lets just ignore that pesky lil engineering fact that solar cells start to lose efficiency when temps get about about 24 degrees celcius.

eck
February 16, 2021 6:32 pm

Ya know, it just boggles the mind how minuscule, undetectable by you and me, temperature changes, are suddenly supposed to soar and cause all of these horrible things. With no evidence and the fact that the world in the past was just fine with the supposed X degree temps.

“Show me the money!”…errr… evidence.

rickk
February 16, 2021 6:39 pm

Jack asses – the demand for electricity today and yesterday in Texas has exceeded any in Texas during any of the hottest days ever – look it up

Kevin
February 16, 2021 7:10 pm

I’ve worked at several nuclear power plants around the country over the past 39 years.The only one shut down for cooling water problems was due to jellyfish clogging the screens.

Hivemind
February 16, 2021 7:36 pm

It’s astounding that claims like this can be made in a country where you need to wear heavy clothing 9 months out of 12. These people are totally deluded.

4 Eyes
February 16, 2021 8:24 pm

These 2 guys should stick to science. They clearly have absolutely no engineering credentials – none, zippo, zero. Unqualified comment like theirs is why more and more people are seeing through the CAGW scam.

Stevecsd
Reply to  4 Eyes
February 17, 2021 2:17 pm

Why would you want these two morons anywhere nears science?

lyn roberts
February 16, 2021 8:49 pm

I hope these guys are living in an area that has power cuts, or maybe they should have their own personal power cuts. Not impossible with the current systems. Maybe they will learn that all that white global warming is actually cold, as in really cold. Have been watching the news this morning from US, from a warm rather than hot queensland and fearing for the loss of life due to the cold, let alone and chance of taking refuge and having covid passed onto family. Something I have noticed our bees are tossing out the drones very early, and laying down their winter blankets on the outside frames in the hives. Early winter on the way I fear, we have not taken all our honey, erring on the side of caution.

Hugs
February 17, 2021 12:11 am

I sincerely admire how Eric kept his patience here.

What is concerning here is the obvious red herring: coal would be negatively and meaningfully affected by climate change, and solar/wind power not. This is not what good scientists will do. This is what policy advocates do.

I believe the assistant professors actually know a lot more on the topic than it looks like they do. They have just decided to emphasize possible engineering ‘challenges’ related to coal power.

John
February 17, 2021 12:43 am

Typically when it’s very hot in Texas it means a high pressure system is in place and means little to no wind. Wind doesn’t work when it’s very hot or very cold. Or when it’s very windy for that matter!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  John
February 17, 2021 7:55 am

All excellent points!

There are lots of situations where windmills and solar don’t work.

No sensible person would make them the backbone of our electrical systems because they are obviously subject to fail at the worst times possible.

The alarmists are going to have to drop the promoting of windmills and solar. They now have an objective reason for doing so: Windmills and solar have caused a disaster in Texas.

And it is really the policy that has put Texas in this shape. Texas politicians have supported making their electrical grid 23 percent dependent on technologies that cannot be depended on at all times.

Like one Texan said on tv this morning, the Texas politicians who are clamoring for an investigation into how this disaster happened, are the very same ones who put this policy in place in the first place.

Windmills and industrial solar cannot be depended on. That’s the bottom line, and Texas politicians should take measures to up fossil fuel and nuclear generation to make up for this 23 percent deficit.

Don’t just add more windmills, that will just make things worse. I know that’s a really dumb suggestion, but you wait, some ignorant alarmist will suggest it.

Last edited 3 months ago by Tom Abbott
griff
February 17, 2021 1:11 am

French nuclear plant regularly shuts down due to warm water and low river levels… so too some German coal plant. There is more extreme (for the region) heat in Europe and more low river levels as a result.

From 2019:
Nuclear plants facing closure as heatwave grips Europe – Independent.ie

Reply to  Eric Worrall
February 17, 2021 2:17 am

These systems have margins on both sides, based on experiences If these margins are meaningless because of changes, the margins have to be changed and the systems to be adapted. But adapt to lower water levels is more difficult as to water temperature.

Reply to  griff
February 17, 2021 2:28 am
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 17, 2021 4:59 am

Sorry for wrong link; correction

I started that discussion yesterday here

Last edited 3 months ago by Krishna Gans
Mark
February 17, 2021 1:50 am

There is a grain of truth….heat engines get less efficient as the ambient temperature increases.

but…humans have deployed power generation units from the Arctic North Slope to the deserts of Arabia…..pretty big temperature range there….

Reply to  Mark
February 17, 2021 2:29 am

If the ranges don’t change, no problem 😀

Matthew Bergin
Reply to  Krishna Gans
February 17, 2021 10:11 am

Plant operators will do what humans have always done and adapt to the changes. Life will continue.

Editor
February 17, 2021 2:14 am

In most countries, power demand peaks in winter when it’s needed for heat.

Therefore warmer winters will REDUCE the generating capacity needed.

rah
February 17, 2021 4:03 am

What a load of crap! These people will write anything! I don’t care what degrees they have or what their titles are, they aren’t scientists. They’re nothing more than dishonest hacks, and aren’t even very good at that!

Ed Zuiderwijk
February 17, 2021 4:23 am

I suggest the learned ‘assistent professors’ read up on elementary thermodynamics. If they have any idea what that is, which appears questionable.

D Boss
February 17, 2021 5:36 am

Again with the evidence that degrees mean Bull Schist, More Schist and Piled higher and Deeper…

Solar panel efficiency is temperature dependent – the hotter the panel, the lower it’s conversion efficiency of photons into electron flow.

https://firstgreenconsulting.wordpress.com/2013/05/04/effect-of-temperature-on-module-performance/

Notice in the above link the second chart on the page, at 0 degC the panel efficiency is 16% and at 50 deg C it is about 13.3%.

So yes, in a warmer climate cooling for the power plants reduces overall efficiency a teensy bit, but solar panels suffer losses in efficiency too with increasing temps!

And duh, a wind turbine’s efficiency has as one of the factors for the maths, the AIR DENSITY! Air density is considerably lower for higher temperature than low, so wind turbines also suffer a loss of efficiency for higher average air temperature!

http://www.ijsrp.org/research_paper_feb2012/ijsrp-feb-2012-06.pdf

Power = 0.5 x Swept Area x Air Density x Velocity^3″

How do idiots like this get degrees in the first place and how on earth do they get professorships??? There used to be a joke about so and so getting their degree in a Cracker Jack box – I don’t think it’s funny anymore….it appears to be widespread.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  D Boss
February 17, 2021 8:03 am

“Solar panel efficiency is temperature dependent – the hotter the panel, the lower it’s conversion efficiency of photons into electron flow.”

Yes, and solar panels don’t work at all when they are covered by snow.

Enlightened Archivist
February 17, 2021 6:01 am

Balderdash. No accounting for stupid.

John Kelly
February 17, 2021 7:55 am

If these 2 tossers just happened to be right, IF, then there’s a simple engineering solution. The trouble with climate tossers is that they have no idea how the real world works; just like too many politicians.

rah
Reply to  John Kelly
February 17, 2021 12:42 pm

If what they claim had any merit don’t you think it would have shown up in any of many areas with a hot climate where fossil fuels are used to generate electricity?

Filippo Turturici
February 17, 2021 8:02 am

What a moronic claim. Every source of energy has an optimum temperature for working, including solar panels: with the important difference, that solar devices efficiency is more impacted by high (surface) temperatures, than thermoelectrical power plants one. Also, where heat waves may see a reduction in wind speed (as typical of many sultry heat waves, in temperate and sub-tropical climates), the wind mills are impacted as well and out of any predictability. This claim is just political, not technical nor scientifical.

February 17, 2021 2:38 pm

This is an effective propaganda article. The people at whom it is aimed are not numbers people. Just wait. Someday you’ll be talking to someone about how thermal power is more reliable and they’ll say “yes but when the temperature goes up those power plants use more power just to keep cool’. The fact that the extra amount of energy needed is minuscule does not enter into it.

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