How Do We Turn the Sun Off?

From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT

By Paul Homewood

https://www.solar.sheffield.ac.uk/pvlive/#

Returning to that story about too much solar power, last week saw solar peak at 14.4 GW on Tuesday.

It’s not labelled, but that light blue blob arrowed is solar. Total demand was just order 35 GW at midday.Gas and biomass together were running at 1.9 GW,  nuclear 5.1 GW and wind at 11.6 GW. We were also importing 4.5 GW.

So fast forward a few years, when we have triple the amount of solar and we will be looking at at least 40 GW, plus wind and nuclear.

Given that Miliband also wants to triple wind power too, we could easily have 70 GW of wind and solar chasing less than 40 GW of demand.

According to the Telegraph, we might have to pay a large power station to shut down under such circumstances. Yes, the same power stations Miliband wants to close! But the Telegraph misses the point – there will no gas or biomass power stations contracted to supply at that time of day, because there is already too much capacity projected.

You cannot switch off something that is not switched on!

That leaves us with the problem of nuclear. You cannot ramp up and down a large reactor like Hinkley, so the surplus power becomes greater still.

Kayte O’Neill of NESO rather deviously attempts to deflect attention, saying she is confident “we have the right tools to enable the safe, reliable and efficient operation of the system”.

That might be the case this summer, but her tool box certainly won’t be of much use in five years time. Unfortunately, NESO are not independent, being Government owned and directly controlled by DESNZ.

A truly independent grid operator would surely be ringing the alarm bells now over the looming catastrophe facing us.

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Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 2:19 am

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, even though nobody likes hearing it. Since the solar and wind surplus capacity is already installed, when the electricity is not needed it should be directed off the grid and used for power-to-gas conversion plants. The gas, then, could be stored indefinitely and utilized to generate dispatchable electricity when wind and solar are low.

This seems like a no-brainer to me. I’m not saying that it’s an ideal energy strategy if it were to be proposed de novo, I’m just saying that given the situation as it already is, this is the best way to use wind and solar overcapacity without wasting it, even if it was unwise to build it in the first place.

Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 2:43 am

Great idea.
Remind me again why we’re doing all this?

1000025129
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 2:44 am

I take your point, but I fear we’d run into the usual problem. Whoever builds a power-to-gas conversion plant will want a reasonably predictable return on their investment. And it can’t operate like a tall ship with workers being roused out their bunk because a squall blew in. Or didn’t.

Intermittency and unpredictability will always make wind and solar uneconomic. Always.

Reply to  worsethanfailure
April 15, 2026 2:48 am

Putting it a little differently: anyone who relies on wind and solar will always lose out to someone who won’t. (And the “global majority” won’t .)

Reply to  worsethanfailure
April 15, 2026 3:41 am

Such as- much of European industry moving to much lower cost America. Europe then can subsist on the tourism industry- or maybe not once it’s covered with wind and solar farms and gigantic battery systems, it’ll be so ugly nobody will go there on vacation.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 15, 2026 3:58 am

Biden attracted European Industries with his Green New Deal – trump messed that up too.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:23 am

Yuh, wind and solar companies. Just what we don’t need.

strativarius
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:41 am

Cheaper energy prices attracted European industries, especially German ones.

German industrial companies increasingly investing in USA, with power prices and Inflation Reduction Act making their mark

You didn’t think that one through.

Reply to  strativarius
April 15, 2026 7:38 am

Thinking is not a concept User is familiar with.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 5:00 am

Biden attracted parasites and parasitic industries. !

Ones that could prey on a weak and ignorant government handing out lots of money for all sorts of degenerate causes.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 5:03 am

We are happy Trump messed up the windmill plans. We don’t like or want windmills.

Trump is bringing in investments of up to 17 TRILLION dollars. Joe Biden’s administration brought in about 500 billion dollars. Quite a large difference, wouldn’t you say?

Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 15, 2026 6:21 am

What trump says has at this point the same credibility as a press release from north korea.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 6:42 am

The TDS is strong in this one, Obi-wan.

Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
April 15, 2026 6:58 am

Fact check: Trump’s ‘$17 trillion’ investment figure is fiction 

But we all know the “ThEy aRe EaTinG thE DogS” guy hates fact checking. (And loves the poorly educated )

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 10:14 am

Did you independently fact check CNN?

KevinM
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 10:40 am

Ugh. Link is to a CNN article written in the same tone CNN would never have used to analyze the previous non-presidential president’s achievements.
I forced through the tone/framing to arrive at: Trump seems to be inflating his numbers. Then I thought, minus the tone/framing, at least he _has_ numbers.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 1:33 pm

This list is from 11 months ago, and MUCH MORE has been secured since..

We can be absolutely sure that Trump knows several magnitudes more about what is being invested than some low-end hack journalist from a loser “S”-bend anti-American FAKE NEWS broadcaster with basically zero ratings. !

1. Hyundai, represented by José Muñoz, is investing $21 billion, including $5.8 billion for a new steel plant in Louisiana that will create at least 1,500 jobs.

2. CMA CGM, led by Rodolphe Saadé, will spend $20 billion on ports, shipping, and logistics infrastructure, including a new air cargo hub in Chicago. This investment is expected to create 10,000 jobs and support the U.S. shipping industry.

3. Toyota, with Ted Ogawa in attendance, is putting $88 million into expanding hybrid vehicle production at its West Virginia factory. Trump noted he’d visited the facility and called it “fantastic.”

4. Anduril, led by Brian Schimpf, is investing $1 billion in a new drone and defense technology facility in Ohio. The plant will focus on autonomous weapons systems and add thousands of jobs over time.

5. Amazon, represented by Doug Herrington, is investing $4 billion this year, with more expected, focused on logistics and cloud infrastructure across the U.S.

6. Venture Global, headed by Mike Sabel, is putting $18 billion into liquefied natural gas expansion in Louisiana, supporting U.S. energy independence.

7. Siemens USA, under Barbara Humpton, is investing $285 million to grow advanced manufacturing operations and create nearly 1,000 skilled jobs.

8. Pratt Industries, led by Anthony Pratt, has committed $5 billion to expand its American recycling and packaging facilities, creating thousands of jobs in several states.

9. Chobani, founded by Hamdi Ulukaya, is investing $1.7 billion, including $1.2 billion for a new dairy plant in New York. Trump joked the U.S. might start exporting yogurt thanks to Chobani’s growth.

10. Bel Brands USA, led by Yvonne Gerard, is putting $350 million into expanding cheese and snack production. After this, all Babybel cheeses sold in the U.S. will be made with American milk.

11. Schneider Electric, represented by Aamir Paul, is investing $700 million into U.S. energy infrastructure. It is the largest investment in the company’s 135-year history.

12. Johnson & Johnson, under CEO Joaquin Duato, will invest $55 billion in new manufacturing and technology upgrades across the country.

13. Eli Lilly, led by David Ricks, is putting $27 billion into expanding domestic pharmaceutical production and new facilities.

14. Novartis, represented by CEO Vas Narasimhan, plans to invest $23 billion in building or expanding 10 drug manufacturing facilities in the U.S.

15. Genentech, part of the Roche Group and led by Ashley Magargee, announced a massive $50 billion commitment to biotech manufacturing and research.

16. AbbVie, with Rob Michael at the helm, is investing $10 billion to build four new pharmaceutical plants across the U.S.

17. Thermo Fisher Scientific, led by Marc Casper, is expanding its operations with a $2 billion investment into medical supply and diagnostics manufacturing.

18. Merck, under Rob Davis, will spend $9 billion to grow its domestic vaccine and drug production capacity.

19. Abbott Laboratories, led by Robert Ford, is investing $500 million to improve facilities in Illinois and Texas, especially for diagnostics and medical devices.

20. IBM, with Arvind Krishna as CEO, announced a $150 billion investment to grow U.S. research, chip development, and AI technology.

21. GE Aerospace, led by Larry Culp, is putting $1 billion into factories across 16 states to build jet engines for both commercial and military aircraft. Trump praised the company’s leadership in aerospace innovation.

22. SoftBank, led by Masayoshi Son, is partnering with Oracle and OpenAI on a total $700 billion investment in AI infrastructure in the U.S. This includes the largest private sector project in American history to support the development of advanced computing.

23. Apple, represented by CEO Tim Cook, is investing $500 billion to build factories and expand operations across seven or eight U.S. states. Trump noted this was a major shift for Apple, which previously concentrated production overseas.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 3:19 pm

When one lie falls flat, drag out the old disproven ones.
Trump merely pointed out that after a certain minority moved in, reports of missing pets sky rocketed. An absolutely true statement, even if your cell master tells you not to believe it.

KevinM
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 10:35 am

Again… examples.
TA above threw out the number 17 trillion (which allows your “fact check” post below, I’ll read in a few seconds).
strativarious above threw out the nation Germany.

Arguing with words instead of pictures requires data or it’s just a waste of text.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 3:17 pm

Socialists just hate it when someone they don’t like points out their failures.

EmilyDaniels
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 17, 2026 5:26 am

Says the person who probably believes every piece of Iranian propaganda

Bryan A
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 6:29 am

You mean Biden’s Green New Scam don’t you? Like the Inflation Reduction Act that was really a Money Laundering Scheme to put money in Democrat re-election coffers

KevinM
Reply to  Bryan A
April 15, 2026 10:42 am

IIRC “Inflation Reduction Act” and “Green New Deal” were different names for the same largess.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 6:41 am

Boy oh boy you have that wrong or deliberately misstated it.

The European Industries did not establish themselves in the US. The US funded Europe to build, deliver, and install the environmental devastating obscenities.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 7:35 am

Biden attracted flies, like any pile of crap. Trump got rid of the bribes that attracted scammers. Real industry seeks real energy.

KevinM
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 10:31 am

Examples. You must provide examples.
Your post demonstrates why liberal thought dominates visual media while conservative thought dominates radio/podcasts.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 3:16 pm

Funny how reality and what LooserName is told to believe, never quite manage to meet up.

Bryan A
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 5:32 pm

Biden’s “Attractiveness” to European companies was his undelivered promise of free money. Like all his other undelivered promises.

Editor
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 3:34 am

Surely it would be immensely better to use all the wind and solar to make fuel, and run the whole grid on fuel + hydro.

Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 15, 2026 3:46 am

Surely it would be even better to just generate electricity using coal, gas, nuclear and hydroelectric, and stop wasting money on worse-than-useless wind and solar.

Bryan A
Reply to  AGW is Not Science
April 15, 2026 6:38 am

There you go again…thinking like a realist instead of a Unicorn flatus huffing liberal.

Bryan A
Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 15, 2026 6:32 am

Solar is really only useful to recharge batteries as it only produces energy at Low Demand periods and produces NOTHING at High Demand times
Wind on the other hand is only productive in the Goldilocks Zone. Winds lower than 9mph and inertia can’t be overcome, turbines don’t spin. Wind above 50mph and breaking kicks in to preserve bearings, turbines also don’t spin.
With Wind and Solar combined…
Wind dies at night and Electricity generation ceases.
Wind too strong at night and Electricity generation ceases.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Bryan A
April 15, 2026 6:43 am

Most niche applications work exactly that way.

Bryan A
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
April 15, 2026 10:10 am

Ayup, Wind and Solar operate in the Niche of Time

Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 3:36 am

Have you got a price to build and run those “power-to-gas conversion plants”?

cartoss
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 3:38 am

What exactly is the physics of a power to gas conversion, unless the gas is hydrogen? Storing hydrogen, piping it, putting it into homes will never be safe. Which in this mad world means there will be infinite piles of borrowed (from our grandchildren) money available to try it anyway.

atticman
Reply to  cartoss
April 15, 2026 4:04 am

OK, how about part-time aluminium smelting instead? Seems a shame to let the power go to waste.

Or it could be fed through huge resistance coils and dissipated as hea… Oh, perhaps not.

Petey Bird
Reply to  atticman
April 15, 2026 7:55 am

Is “part-time aluminium smelting” a thing? Pretty sure it needs to be continuous to work at all. If power goes off the plant freezes solid.

atticman
Reply to  Petey Bird
April 15, 2026 3:09 pm

Some people clearly don’t recognise sarcasm unless it’s flagged up for them.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  cartoss
April 15, 2026 6:44 am

H2 is evil. But CH4 can be manufactured.
There are a number of approaches currently under evaluation.

D Sandberg
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
April 15, 2026 9:41 am

Any ‘evaluation” that takes more than 15 minutes is for an evaluation grant from the government.. Anyone who thinks they can manufacture natural gas for less than the Henry Hub wholesale price that’s been at $3/mcf for a decade or more and is projected to stay in that range for a decade or more is seriously “less than wise”.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  D Sandberg
April 15, 2026 10:16 am

MIT had a working prototype.
Can it be scaled? Unknwn.

Reply to  cartoss
April 15, 2026 7:24 am

Rubbish, a gas consisting of ~50% hydrogen was successfully supplied to households throughout Britain for over 150years until it was replaced with cheap North sea natural gas.

KevinM
Reply to  Phil.
April 15, 2026 5:02 pm

Is there a study comparing hydrogen ratio at the source (nominal 50%) to the ratio at a distant household (>10 miles away)? I can’t imagine more than half the Hydrogen making it to the household.

Reply to  Phil.
April 16, 2026 9:56 pm

Phil:
Where did they get the hydrogen 100-150 years ago?
What about hydrogen embritlement? IIRC the max for metal pipes is 20%.
Currently H comes from steam reformation of nat gas, or electrolysis of water.

Scissor
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 4:32 am

It would cost less to use electric powered steam shovels to dig holes and fill them up when there is excess power.

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  Scissor
April 15, 2026 7:45 am

That the ticket! Use electrical energy to raise steam for the steam shovels. If there were additional steps in the process, just to lower efficiency further, someone would insist on a taxpayer subsidy!

Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 5:15 am

Fred Udo of the Dutch “Groene Rekenkamer” has calculated what it would cost to convert the current excess production of wind and solar into hydrogen: it doubles the price of all electricity in The Netherlands…

Not only has hydrogen a bad yield: less than 40% energy left from power to hydrogen to power, the conversion needs platinum, which needs to be exchanged after a year of use plus the intermittency of the power supply which makes it difficult to manage and very expensive for its ROI…

The article is in Dutch, but Google Translate will be of help:
https://groene-rekenkamer.nl/7173/waterstofeconomie/

It is just cheaper to stop and pay windmills (and solar panels) when there is overproduction. Germany already stops windmills when there is too much sun…

Here for last week: there was even too much sun with near all windmills stopped and other (fossil) supply at minimum, then they have to pay (!) their neighbors to take the excess…
https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&interval=week&year=2026&source=public&week=15

ferdberple
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 5:58 am

Only running a process when there is surplus solar leaves the process idle most of the year while you pay rent and interest and on call staffing with no regular hours.

KevinM
Reply to  ferdberple
April 15, 2026 10:51 am

Assumes humans in the production process.

MarkW
Reply to  KevinM
April 15, 2026 3:27 pm

With that much high pressure hydrogen, humans on site 24/7 sounds like a good idea.

Bryan A
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 6:26 am

Reliance on Net Zero Wind and Solar for generation requires Massive Overcapacity installation because you MUST plan for the instances, and there will be instances, when renewables only produce 5% of Nameplate. At 5% of capacity you need 20 times overcapacity to provide 100% demand. Then on good days you wind up with 20 times the energy you need.

Kevin Kilty
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 7:42 am

You seem to not understand that way too much available power can’t be stored, “indefinitely”, as you say. It is expensive to store, and once storage is full you’ll just likely be back to curtailing generation. You can search for an optimum amount of wind+solar+storage, but optimum does not mean inexpensive, nor “prudent investment”, nor does it mean no curtailment.

Petey Bird
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 7:51 am

The plant would have to operate for a few hours per day in good weather. Not likely that it would be efficient or economic. Sitting useless most of the time.

D Sandberg
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 9:28 am

I thought the same thing until I ran the numbers. The most cost effective way is first ending all subsidies for wind and solar and then negotiating buyouts to end the grid contaminating wind and solar nuisance. Shut down enough to get below 10% grid penetration in places like California. Select locations may benefit from battery storage up to four hours of peak midday surplus for peak evening load. I agree “it was unwise to build it in the first place” but “power to gas conversion” is lipstick on a pig, still ugly and a waste of lipstick.

KevinM
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 10:28 am

… only if “power-to-gas conversion plants” already exist. Don’t tell me you want to build new billion dollar equipment to make the old billion dollar equipment less obviously unfit.

MarkW
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
April 15, 2026 3:15 pm

Doesn’t matter how many times you say it, but if your plans make no economic sense, they are worthless.
You fail to factor in the cost of converting that excess electricity, especially the cost of building and maintaining the conversion plants.

Tony Tea
April 15, 2026 2:32 am

Order everyone to turn on all their stuff. Sorted.

Reply to  Tony Tea
April 15, 2026 3:42 am

Newer heat pumps will be designed to pump heat both ways at the same time! 🙂

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 15, 2026 4:01 am

That’s how heat pumps work

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:15 am

I think I know what you think you mean, but what you wrote above is laugh-out-loud funny—as in hoots of derisive laughter.

Reply to  worsethanfailure
April 15, 2026 5:04 am

as in hoots of derisive laughter.”

yep.. totally hilarious 🙂

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:26 am

You didn’t get it- it’ll run heat into the house but also have the AC running- at the same time- in order to use up all that expensive, excess solar energy. Perhaps I should have made this clearer for those with lower IQ. 🙂

Mr.
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:26 am

Ah, so THAT’S what’s causing all this global warming 🤪

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 3:29 pm

At the same time? Do you bother to read, or is your intelligence really that low?

atticman
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 15, 2026 4:06 am

Ah! So that’s what they mean by “net zero”.

Bill Toland
April 15, 2026 2:45 am

All this does is demonstrate the idiocy of installing solar power in Britain which is the second worst country in the world for solar power. The end result is that the cost of electricity in Britain will keep rising.

Reply to  Bill Toland
April 15, 2026 3:44 am

But… but… no price is too high to help save the planet! /s

atticman
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 15, 2026 4:08 am

The amount of planet-saving the UK could manage is immeasureably small when you consider the tiny percentage of global CO2 that we produce….

Reply to  atticman
April 15, 2026 4:27 am

But think of all the virtue signaling.

atticman
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 15, 2026 3:10 pm

I do – and it worries me!

KevinM
Reply to  Bill Toland
April 15, 2026 10:58 am

England worse than more than one of {Greenland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Russia}?
Is there a “Worst ten” list for solar power suitability?

Bill Toland
Reply to  KevinM
April 15, 2026 11:27 pm

This link shows the worst countries in the world for solar power. Only Ireland is worse than Britain.

https://iowaclimate.org/2025/01/22/uk-worse-place-in-world-to-put-solar-power/

Reply to  KevinM
April 17, 2026 11:34 pm

I can assure you Estonia is much worse than UK…
I watched in astonishment seeing those things being installed up there – in winter the panels covered in snow, and about 4-5hrs of quite dim daylight.

In summer long days of sun but no use for the energy they make,-
because no demand for electric heating, and in any case lots of communal heating now converted to expensive Russian gas instead of previously using local oil shale (everyone told by the EUSSR how bad it is for Gaia)…

April 15, 2026 3:55 am

We had the same Problem with Nuclear and Brown coal powerplants. Not economical to shut down at night. So we build storage and encouraged more energy usage during night wit lower prices.
This is just scaremongering about a non-problem

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:31 am

People want to use energy when they want to use it. Basic reality. And they want the price to remain the same all day. That’s what the customer wants. You want to stimulate demand at night when solar will produce nothing and it’s a good chance there will be insufficient wind? Everyone charging up their cars- and in winter when their heat pumps are needed- then also wash clothes and dishes surf the net and use AI? All promoted at night? This is a “cultural revolution”. And we know how cultural revolutions go- if you don’t, read about Mao’s.

Tom Johnson
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 4:46 am

Got it!! It’s just a simple matter of energy storage! Why didn’t I think of that?? /s

Reply to  Tom Johnson
April 15, 2026 5:14 am

Battery storage is BY FAR the most expensive form of maintaining a grid.

I saw a report somewhere recently that in the Australian NEM, despite batteries being a tiny amount of energy, they set the peak price for some 20% or more of the time.

Bryan A
Reply to  Tom Johnson
April 15, 2026 6:42 am

Back to Battery Park being covered with Meagpack Batteries for NY, NY.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Tom Johnson
April 15, 2026 6:49 am

I have a spare bucket you can borrow. 😉

Reply to  Tom Johnson
April 15, 2026 4:42 pm

Nature has already provided the very best energy storage BY FAR.

It utilises the solar energy over many millennia, and turns it into Stored Solar Concentrates..

ie.. FOSSIL FUELS

Reply to  bnice2000
April 16, 2026 10:03 pm

Yep!
Car bumper sticker: “Powered by a Fossilized Biofuel”

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 5:12 am

The problem is not brown coal and nuclear..

They are the backbone of the supply system wherever they are used.

The solid, stable, synchronous supply that all grids must have.

It is supplies that you you can never rely on to provide a given amount at any particular time that are a massive problem.. ie wind and solar

You always have to be making massive fast-acting adjustments to keep reliable and stable supply, to compensate for their erratic, parasitic behaviour..

This is a HUGE cost to the grid.

Reply to  bnice2000
April 17, 2026 11:37 pm

eg. the big power outage in virtue signalling Spain when they lost sync with France’s Nuclear grid.

oeman50
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 5:25 am

A coal plant can run at a reduced load even if it is not switched off entirely. Nuclear plants have some ability to load follow, what do you think nuclear plants in France do at night?

And so now you are worried about economics?

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  oeman50
April 15, 2026 6:50 am

He is not worried about anything except scoring (in his mind) “debating points” with the goal of inflating his ego by “winning” the debates.

Pure sophistry.

MiloCrabtree
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
April 15, 2026 8:52 am

Pure troll is what he is. A stinking troll at that.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MiloCrabtree
April 15, 2026 10:20 am

AKA Flame Warrior.

KevinM
Reply to  MiloCrabtree
April 15, 2026 11:04 am

Ad hominem is weak but I once spent half a day giggling about the insult “go away smelly troll” written by someone here who (should have been?) a writer.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 5:47 am

Your suggestion is entirely logical, and is in fact being taken up and implemented in the UK. With a slight difference owing to the nature of the generation technology.

In the past it made sense to have storage heaters in homes on special time of day meters running at a cheap rate. So you heated up these thermal brick devices at night, and then drew down the stored heat during the day and early evening. They worked OK and were reasonably economical. Notice however, they relied on timers. They relied on the fact that electricity was reliably and always available during off peak hours. With the abolition of coal generation this has now gone, and so the storage heater tariffs have been abolished,

The current proposal is subtly different. We have no idea when the peaks in wind generation will be. As for solar, we know that it will be basically non-existent in winter. So the current proposal is to charge differentlally for electricity based on the weather. That is, pass wholesale price fluctuations on to the customer with the aim of tailoring demand to supply.

You could come home one day and find it costing £2.00 or more kWh to make dinner. Or you could come home and find that today they were paying you to cook dinner. But then when you wanted to put the dishwasher on, the price could have gone up to £5.00. But just for a half hour. And then tomorrow evening…? Well, who knows, it depends on how strong the winds are in the North Sea.

Could we go back to storage heaters with special meters and charge them up when there was a surplus? Yes, to some extent we could. But the problem we might have is that in summer when there is most solar output, in the middle of the day, its usually quite warm enough not to need heat. In fact, the problem in the rare UK hot summers, when solar will deliver most, is nights that people find uncomfortably warm, so the last thing they need is heaters putting it out.

As usual, you have given no thought to how practically to use the excess generated power, and a moments thought would tell you that what works for coal generation, which is both regular, predictable and continuous, will not work with a technology which is both intermittent and unpredictable. The simple measure which worked for previous storage heaters will not work for wind and solar because of this.

This may be why no-one is offering such a product.

You doubt it? Well just ask yourself, where is the surplus power going to come from, to charge the storage heaters at cheap rates, one January or February dark calm evening, when there’s no solar to speak of during the day, and there has been dead calm in the North Sea for several days now, and its not shifting.

Its called being in denial.

Reply to  michel
April 15, 2026 9:37 am

As usual, you have given no thought…

You could have (and probably should have) stopped right there.

AWG
Reply to  michel
April 16, 2026 4:48 am

I propose a different variant for producer driven demand, instead of modifying lifestyle, grant a base-load demand of actual rate payers and the flexible production is absorbed by welfare recipients. When there is surplus energy, then their mains turn on. Too many cloudy days in a row during a time of being cold? Tired of burning the furniture to heat the home at that time? Get a job, pay your bills entirely on your own, join the All The Time Group.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 6:49 am

“This is just scaremongering about a non-problem”

You just defined precisely the Trans-Reality Alarmism.

KevinM
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 15, 2026 11:00 am

Define “same Problem“.
Nuclear seems to have the opposite set of problems.

AWG
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
April 16, 2026 4:41 am

This is actually true. One of the taller buildings in Dallas, TX was designed specifically with long running contracts to buy electricity at a much cheaper rate at night than during daylight “office” hours. They took the cheaper electricity to make ice that would later be used during the day for air-conditioning. But that was over forty years ago.

April 15, 2026 4:22 am

Easy, just build a bunch a data centers that use the excess energy to run computers cranking out even more advanced modeling of the climate for the IPCC which will then predict that you need to build even more wind and solar plants that you can use to power more…?

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  johnesm
April 15, 2026 6:54 am

Rube Goldberg would be highly impressed with this system.

strativarius
April 15, 2026 4:38 am

Solar is great… for spacecraft relatively near to the Sun. And then it isn’t, or rather it’s patchy and intermittent. The right tool for the job and for our energy system that has to be whatever works (economically) around the clock.

We have 4 refineries left in the UK and they are all under threat. Miliband is the idealogue’s idealogue when it comes to net zero. Doing the media rounds today was Chief Secretary to the Treasury James Murray. 

“On Rosebank and Jackdaw oil and gas fields Murray was unable to say when a decision would be taken to allow them to be exploited or even what the Treasury’s preference was with regard to them.” Guido

Apparently, it’s a matter for the Secretary of State for Energy blah blah.

Ever since the energy crisis created by the Iran war began the one face, the one voice who has been entirely absent – save for a puff piece in the Grauniad?

Mad Ed Miliband. (MIA)

Bryan A
Reply to  strativarius
April 15, 2026 6:45 am

Spirit froze to death on Mars from a weaker sun and dusty panels. Opportunity too though years later.

MrGrimNasty
April 15, 2026 5:38 am

Story Tip.

“GivEnergy Ltd, one of the UK’s largest manufacturers of battery storage systems, has entered administration after posting a £5.4m loss.”

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/major-uk-energy-firm-plunges-33773019

Mr.
Reply to  MrGrimNasty
April 15, 2026 6:51 am

Don’t tell me –
expenses exceeded income, or just ran out of other peoples’ money?

MrGrimNasty
Reply to  Mr.
April 15, 2026 7:27 am

Sounds like they couldn’t or just didn’t compete with cheaper imports. Same old problem, high energy and labour costs in the UK.

ferdberple
April 15, 2026 5:50 am

Would you pay the pub to stop pouring beer when your glass is full?

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  ferdberple
April 15, 2026 6:55 am

LOL

No. I would ask for a straw and have them keep pouring. 😉

Sparta Nova 4
April 15, 2026 6:37 am

“A truly independent grid operator would surely be ringing the alarm bells now over the looming catastrophe facing us.”

Two points.
Perhaps they did, but the powers that be refused to listen or instead listened to other “experts.”
Perhaps they did, but the plan is make that catastrophe happen.

After all, the carbon units infesting earth need to be eradicated.

Right?

April 15, 2026 7:13 am

They could add some more pumped storage systems like Festiniog.

MrGrimNasty
Reply to  Phil.
April 15, 2026 7:58 am

The Earba Pumped Storage project in Scotland is estimated at £2.4 billion (no doubt a vast underestimate). The project will be the largest of its kind in the UK, with 40 GWh of storage (22 hours at full power 1.8GW) and construction is slated to take 6–7 years. That’s on top of the wind turbine/solar PV cost. And there’s still the risk there won’t have been sufficient excess power to recharge it by the time the next demand deficit occurs, or that it will be fully charged when there is an excess that will still have to be dumped.

Or we could just stop wasting resources, ruining the landscape, putting up costs, channeling Heath Robinson; and use gas instead of it all.

MrGrimNasty
Reply to  MrGrimNasty
April 15, 2026 10:37 am

Typical that certain people down vote in frustration at being unable to refute the sense of real world truths.

Reply to  Phil.
April 15, 2026 1:45 pm

Pumped storge is highly inefficient… and solar power in Scotland.. that’s just funny !!

MarkW
Reply to  Phil.
April 15, 2026 3:39 pm

How many sites do you believe exist that are suitable for pumped storage?

Reply to  Phil.
April 15, 2026 4:51 pm

Did you know that the Festiniog pumped storage was built so that the local coal fired power stations could continue to operate at full efficiency overnight rather than having to nearly shut down.

It is used to level-out the output demand from the coal fired power stations.

Petey Bird
April 15, 2026 7:49 am

Pretty disruptive. Seems demand was high at the same time. Otherwise it would be worse.

CD in Wisconsin
April 15, 2026 8:31 am

“Given that Miliband also wants to triple wind power too….”

I fear for the future of the UK’s avian population. Is there a day coming when the sight of a bird flying through the air in the UK will be a rare sight?

Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 15, 2026 9:52 am

Rarer than a brain cell in Miliband’s head.

Bryan A
Reply to  DavsS
April 15, 2026 10:23 am

Milibrains head is more vacuous that Space. Likely even less density per sq meter for brain cell count.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 15, 2026 10:27 am

It’s worse than kinds never knowing snow. Much worse.

KevinM
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
April 15, 2026 11:14 am

First no snow, now no birds? Where will the losses end?
Solution: Import flightless birds. What do Ostriches eat? Will ostrich food grow beneath wind turbine towers?
Cost recovery plan: How do ostriches taste?

KevinM
Reply to  KevinM
April 15, 2026 11:23 am

Aha!
“Yes, an ostrich omelette is considered good and is often described as a delicious, rich, and “buttery” version of a chicken egg, though it has a more substantial, slightly more gamey, or intense flavor. Because one egg is equivalent to about 20-24 chicken eggs, it is ideal for large groups, typically feeding 8-10 people.”

Bird-killer problem solved.

KevinM
April 15, 2026 10:25 am

Please edit the graphic by adding a key. You indicated something in the text, but in present form the graphic itself is a decoration.

Bob
April 15, 2026 1:55 pm

There is only one question that needs to be answered when considering new power plants. How much name plate will you have to build to insure X amount of constant energy every day? It makes no more sense to overbuild wind and solar than it would to buy a half dozen Yugos to get the same value as one American or Japanese car. It is just stupid.

April 15, 2026 4:04 pm

A truly independent grid operator would surely be ringing the alarm bells now over the looming catastrophe facing us.

A truly independent and unbiased analysis would surely trivially understand the answer is adding storage to the grid to give both stability using synthetic inertia and reliability to cater for changing demand and renewable supply.

KevinM
Reply to  TimTheToolMan
April 15, 2026 4:56 pm

The cost of that solution would not be trivial.

Reply to  KevinM
April 15, 2026 5:31 pm

As with everything we do, the more we do it, the cheaper it becomes. The fundamental cost limit is determined by the cost of materials and cost of production.

Besides, its mandatory to have storage as part of the renewable energy solution.

And the good thing about storage is that it helps as all levels of implementation. Even a little storage helps with maximum demand and configured correctly, grid stability.