The Roth resolution and the Chinese virus

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

The Marxstream media are working overtime to minimize or altogether to conceal the Chinese Communist Party’s responsibility for covering up the existence of the Chinese-virus outbreak until it was too late to prevent the pandemic from spreading worldwide.

It may be, then, that you have not yet been allowed to see the news that the Chinese Communist Party, desperate to persuade Western opinion that the regime had acted responsibly and transparently, has been begging lawmakers to put down resolutions drafted by the Party and expressing support for its handling of the pandemic.

On February 26, Ms Wu Ting, wife of Zhao Jian, the Chinese consul-general in Chicago, emailed Roger Roth, President of the Wisconsin State Senate, asking him “to consider adopting a resolution expressing solidarity with the Chinese people in fighting the coronavirus”:

“The Consulate General wonders if the Wisconsin State Senate could consider adopting a resolution expressing solidarity with the Chinese people in fighting the coronavirus. Yes, it would be a great moral support to the Chinese people combating the disease. Much appreciated if you could give it a serious consideration. We have drawn up a draft resolution just for your reference.”

The resolution drafted by the Chinese Communist Party read as follows:

“China has been transparent and quick in sharing key information of the virus with the WHO and the international community, thus creating a window of opportunity for other countries to make timely response.”

At first, Senator Roth thought the original email was “obviously a hoax”, for he had never before received any contact from the Chinese. However, when a second email came on March 10, he told his staff to find out whether the request was real. When they found out that it was real, and had been sent from a private account to avoid the red tape involved in using the Chinese Consulate-General’s email system, Mr Roth was furious.

He said: “Just the fact that they felt it was OK for them to do something so brazen … for this Communist Party to so desperately crave for and look for legitimacy, wherever they could get it – including in Wisconsin – by passing this sham of a resolution that they wrote tells you just how worried they must be right now about how they’ve reacted to the outbreak.”

Senator Roth drafted a resolution, but it was not what the Communist Party wanted. It says that the virus had originated in Wuhan, that the Communist Party had a long history of human and natural rights abuses, including the invasion and occupation of Tibet, the internment and “re-education” of 1.5 million Muslim Uyghurs in concentration camps, the abortion of hundreds of millions of children, most of them female, organ harvesting and forced sterilization, crackdown on the Tiananmen Square protesters and restrictions on individual expression and religious practice, currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, and opposition to democracy in and out of China, culminating in the failure to disclose the outbreak to the world in time. The resolution cited the result of a Southampton University study that concluded that if China had disclosed the outbreak in time, the spread of the virus could have been reduced by 95%.

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Fig. 1. Mean compound daily growth rates in cumulative confirmed cases of COVID-19 for the world excluding China (red) and for several individual nations averaged over the successive seven-day periods ending on all dates from March 28 to April 19, 2020.

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Fig. 2. Mean compound daily growth rates in cumulative COVID-19 deaths for the world excluding China (red) and for several individual nations averaged over the successive seven-day periods ending on all dates from April 4 to April 19, 2020.

Today’s graphs show that compound daily growth rates in cumulative cases are below 5% in most countries, but that in many countries the compound daily growth rates in cumulative deaths, an indicator that lags the cases by about two weeks, are between 5% and 12%.

Worldwide, by the time you read this, there will have been 2.5 million confirmed cases, which tend to be the more serious cases, usually requiring hospitalization, and 170,000 deaths. Worryingly, deaths are still above 20% of closed cases – those where people who had been infected have either recovered or died. At that rate, there might be 300,000 deaths among the 1.6 million currently active cases, and that is before any further cases arising after today are taken into account. However, there has been considerable under-reporting of recovered cases in many nations.

Ø High-quality images of the graphs are here.

Ø Senator Roth’s resolution is here.

235 thoughts on “The Roth resolution and the Chinese virus

    • Wow, he certain packs a punch with that one.

      When was this written? The latest date in the text is 26th march 2020.
      Was this actually passed by the senate or did it remain just as a draft?

      destroyed early samples of the virus, refused to release timely and accurate information on the virus,

      Indeed the director of Wuhan P4 biolab ordered all samples destroyed on 1st Jan 2020 IIRC. Hardly the most useful thing to do with the most important biological traces. Hide the evidence, instead of offering samples scientists to world wide to analyse and work on.

      An absolutely juvenile attempt at a cover up. Like a young child who has broken a vase when alone in the house and tries to conceal the fragments.

      since this was not even top secret military work but openly published PR reviewed papers, one wonders how they even imagined no one would notice.

      While the responsibility for the leak and the cover up obviously sits squarely with the Chinese govt. , it should be remembered that both the US and French govts and scientists were involved, (before Obama called a moratorium on funding in 2014) both in the construction and design of the Wuhan P4 lab and specifically in the project of engineering the corona virus stains which ended up getting leaked.

      Once this is under control we need to get an international treaty preventing this kind of sorcerer’s apprentice meddling with dangerous virus genotypes.

      • It is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The world is replete with GOF labs.
        From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4996883/
        Gain-of-Function Research: Ethical Analysis

        “Abstract

        “Gain-of-function (GOF) research involves experimentation that aims or is expected to (and/or, perhaps, actually does) increase the transmissibility and/or virulence of pathogens. Such research, when conducted by responsible scientists, usually aims to improve understanding of disease causing agents, their interaction with human hosts, and/or their potential to cause pandemics. The ultimate objective of such research is to better inform public health and preparedness efforts and/or development of medical countermeasures. Despite these important potential benefits, GOF research (GOFR) can pose risks regarding biosecurity and biosafety. In 2014 the administration of US President Barack Obama called for a “pause” on funding (and relevant research with existing US Government funding) of GOF experiments involving influenza, SARS, and MERS viruses in particular. With announcement of this pause, the US Government launched a “deliberative process” regarding risks and benefits of GOFR to inform future funding decisions—and the US National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB) was tasked with making recommendations to the US Government on this matter. As part of this deliberative process the National Institutes of Health commissioned this Ethical Analysis White Paper, requesting that it provide (1) review and summary of ethical literature on GOFR, (2) identification and analysis of existing ethical and decision-making frameworks relevant to (i) the evaluation of risks and benefits of GOFR, (ii) decision-making about the conduct of GOF studies, and (iii) the development of US policy regarding GOFR (especially with respect to funding of GOFR), and (3) development of an ethical and decision-making framework that may be considered by NSABB when analyzing information provided by GOFR risk-benefit assessment, and when crafting its final recommendations (especially regarding policy decisions about funding of GOFR in particular). The ethical and decision-making framework ultimately developed is based on the idea that there are numerous ethically relevant dimensions upon which any given case of GOFR can fare better or worse (as opposed to there being necessary conditions that are either satisfied or not satisfied, where all must be satisfied in order for a given case of GOFR to be considered ethically acceptable): research imperative, proportionality, minimization of risks, manageability of risks, justice, good governance (i.e., democracy), evidence, and international outlook and engagement. Rather than drawing a sharp bright line between GOFR studies that are ethically acceptable and those that are ethically unacceptable, this framework is designed to indicate where any given study would fall on an ethical spectrum—where imaginable cases of GOFR might range from those that are most ethically acceptable (perhaps even ethically praiseworthy or ethically obligatory), at one end of the spectrum, to those that are most ethically problematic or unacceptable (and thus should not be funded, or conducted), at the other. The aim should be that any GOFR pursued (and/or funded) should be as far as possible towards the former end of the spectrum.”…..

        • The “pot” actually did something about reviewing the situation and “paused” *govt* funding of such work in the mean time.

          The ultimate objective of such research is to better inform public health and preparedness efforts and/or development of medical countermeasures.

          The supposed benefits seem rather hypothetical. The main problem is certain scientists have no moral compass and cannot resist the temptation to do something just because they can.

          Nature has a barrier preventing inter species jumping. This used to regarded as rare. They are now pretending it is common place. Maybe now it has become so !

        • It really is amazing how fast people are to either defend China or to try and distract from it’s crimes.

          • China has been a militarist, communist entity since the communist led army defeated Chiang Kai Shek in 1949.

      • Vuk,
        I used the UK numbers to estimate the asymptotic values for the infections and deaths.
        In plotting log(log(A)-log(B)), where A is the asymptotic value and B is the daily cumulative number, a straight line should be obtained for an appropriate value of A (this behavior is according the Gompertz function). Around the beginning of April there is a bending in both curves (which cannot be resolved by changing A) to a faster decline. From that date till this day the lines suggest asymptotes for resp. infections and deaths of 250 000 and 25000 with resp. e-folding times of 17 and 11 days. This is it not a prediction, just a description of the behavior of the curves during the last three weeks. The curves for Italy, whose records are 2 weeks longer, show an upward bend about 4 weeks ago.

    • Wisconsin State Senate. But why would the Chicoms appeal to a Wisconsin republican state senator ? Seems unlikely and really pea digging.

      • The object of the exercise is classic propaganda procedure: subterfuge to obtain a bona fides political endorsement, that can then be played back to that country’s voters as proof the CCP and its dealings with the virus are all kosher.

      • “Wisconsin State Senate. But why would the Chicoms appeal to a Wisconsin republican state senator ? Seems unlikely and really pea digging.”

        The question should be: How many other State Senators in other U.S.States got similar letters?

  1. Thank you Lord Monkton I always enjoy reading your articles.
    I live in Australia and have heard that China has been trying to buy Virgin Australia! We have a great problem here with the Chinese buying up many of our businesses and land, instructing Universities what to teach and generally interfering with our government. This latest is either a well designed plan of Disaster profiteering or a cynical attempt to obtain more of our country.
    The Australian people are fed up with these intrusions and I think we will now see a kick back with people refusing to buy Chinese manufactured goods and woe betide any government that continues to pander to their schemes.

    • re. disaster profiteering

      The federal government says it is taking steps to protect Canada and Canadian businesses by tightening the rules around foreign takeovers of as the COVID-19 pandemic batters businesses of all shapes and sizes. link

      So, your neighbor was burning some brush and your house caught fire. He, extinguisher in hand, offers you one dollar for your house.

      If I recall correctly, Australia has a great deal of law dealing with liability resulting from burning brush. I do see some similarity between carelessly burning brush and the Chinese handling of the coronavirus outbreak.

      Good luck suing China but, in any event, the morality of the situation seems crystal clear.

    • Good luck on buying nothing ‘made in China’! Perhaps the best outcome from this pandemic will be (apart from C19 instances reducing to zero) will be the rest of the world waking up and taking the manufacturing base out of PRC.

      Looks like Aus is the latest victim of the PRC’s Belt and Road initiative. Just wait until they call in the loans and take your territory in payment 🤣🤣🤣

      • Just refuse all payments worldwide as reperation for their spreading COVID19 across the world.

      • No worries, Australia can simply print more money to pay the Chinese loans. Its ok, everyone is doing it.

        Did I say ‘print more money’? Sorry, I meant create more ones & zeros, nobody actually prints money anymore. My bad.

      • “Perhaps the best outcome from this pandemic will be (apart from C19 instances reducing to zero) will be the rest of the world waking up and taking the manufacturing base out of PRC.”

        I think that is going to be part of the hit China takes over this Wuhan virus attack on the world.

        We should be looking to purchase things specifically made in our own countries in the future. Admittedly, China has a lot of these markets sown up at the moment, but consumer demand can change that fairly quickly. And there are a lot of angry consumers out there right now. Angry at China’s leadership and their deliberate release of the Wuhan virus to the detriment of the whole world.

    • The Australian people are fed up with these intrusions and I think we will now see a kick back with people refusing to buy Chinese manufactured goods and woe betide any government that continues to pander to their schemes.

      If you think people will stop buying cheap chinese goods because of this you are going to be disappointed.

      Unless western govts. start to intelligently reactivate their economies very quickly they will do more harm than the Chinese virus has so far.

      There are many sectors which have low level contact with the public which should already but open and unrestricted. eg car body workshops where customer contact is minimal and could be kept at a safe distance. DIY stores could be running drive-in delivery and online ordering.

      This could already be in place.

  2. Good on Roth.

    The increasingly evident problem with counting cases as if this represents anything resembling a denominator, is that data is piling up that tells us that the number of asymptomatic cases is far higher than anyone had expected – the latest among these indicators is the 50% asymptomatic rate among French sailors on the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle and recent findings from several random sampling exercises in Boston.

    Together, this various data points to a death rate of 0.12-15%, in line with the seasonal flu.

    Unless new data convincingly refutes this, maybe it’s time to start acting accordingly – the Swedes and the Dutch may well turn out to have got this right from the outset, paying the proverbial piper up front.

    • Today there are 792,759 confirmed US cases. Only 115,903 have been resolved. Of those that have been resolved, 42,514 have died, for a resolved death rate of 36.6%. 676,856 cases are not resolved. A death rate of 36.6% of those would add an additional 247,729 deaths. That does not sound anything like the flu.

      Maybe that is the new data you need?

      • You missed the part where “resolved” cases are seriously underreported. Many US states haven’t reported a single recovered person, even though we know they exist.

        • Yes, it seems like there are about 50 times the amount of resolved cases that are unreported. So, when all is said and done this will be worse than an average flu but perhaps by only a factor of 3 or so.

        • Fair enough. But it is the data we have. And the amount of recovered persons is nothing but rank speculation at this point. As recovered cases change the picture, then we adjust. They could very well be close. Most of this data comes from hospital records. I see no reason to speculate about how widely off the mark they are.

          • What about the people who are asymptomatic and were not tested? There have been a few small studies which show that a fairly large percentage of the population may have had the virus and they don’t even know they had it. Those tested are the ones who go to their doctor or to a hospital. That’s like saying that heart attacks will kill 50,000,000 people in the US this year because of a high percentage of deaths of people who have had heart attacks.

      • You are completely missing the point about the importance of the increased confirmation of the large portion of asymptomatics.

        In plain English, it means that the announced cases, resolved or not, is an entirely unreliable metric in terms of understanding how many people have actually been infected. And who therefore might – pls note might be – immune. The latter can only be confirmed through large scale random serological testing.

        Meanwhile, any calculation or reasoning that is based on confirmed/resolved cases as an erzats for a denominator, is a classroom case of Garbage In Garbage Out – no matter who produces it.

        • I have a nice statistic for you.
          165,000 dead in 1 month with lockdowns in most countries.
          Is that acceptable to you or do you want to increase it?

          • I would question the efficacy of lockdowns. We had fewer deaths than that before the lockdowns. Two can play your stupid statistical guessing game.

          • @ Trying to Play Nice. You can question the efficacy of lockdowns all you want. But the experts advising governments all over the world say they are efficacious and that is why governments all over the world are imposing them. If you have some real expertise that you think governments should listen to, maybe you should be contacting them and trying to persuade them to do something other than lockdowns.

        • I agree but the NHS will only allow testing on NHS staff which does not allow us to measure the number people infected but not showing symptoms , this is political.

      • “792,759 confirmed US cases” gives 0(zero) information about the total number of infections: new, in progress, confirmed, recovered, died. Using the figure and calculating “died%, resolved %, death rate” gives numbers that have no meaning. The virus doesn’t bother to register victims each time it finds some new ones. Calculating a % of a number that doesn’t have any limits is useless.

        If it turns out that approximately 25 million people have or have had the Wuhan flu then you can calculate meaningful statistics from the numbers. Saying “42,514 deaths is some percentage of the number of cases of Wuhan flu” is a correct statement.

        Since the “normal” flu has some 19 million cases(see below) it has had at least as much impact with more diffuse effects.

      • Seems like death rate should be known cases (792,759) divided by deaths (42,514). If that’s correct, then that would be a death rate of 18.65%.

        Still alarming but 1/2 of your calculations.

        Also still not right because 792,759 is only people sick enough to seek medical care. Most places will only test those expressing Covid-19 symptoms.

        Some reports say roughly 90% of the infected have no or mild symptoms. Other studies suggest the number of infected is much higher. The unknown is how many times more than the official count. 10x? 20x? 50x or more?

        • Total deaths are as much in the air as are total cases.
          Even in the US, every state counts ChiCom19 deaths differently. Deaths outside of hospitals, such as hospices and nursing homes take as long as a week to get reported, in some cases they don’t get reported at all.

          I was reading a report this morning about survivors having to live with long term long damage caused by scarring.

    • I fail to see the relevance of your “refutation.” The same number of people died from covid, regardless of the denominator.

      • Because bad numbers leads to bad decisions. The post I responded to makes misleading statements and the conclusion is therefore wrong. If we don’t rethink things when the facts change, then we might as well be sheep.

        Also because if true, Covid-19 is no worse than the flu. Yes, it’s a horrible way to die, but we would not shutdown the country if these deaths were from the flu.

        Granted, the flu is seasonal. I expect this disease is not. That would greatly increase deaths. Plenty of unknowns to date.

        • Can you think of any period that the USA experienced 45,000 Flu deaths in just one month with a lock down in place for most of that month?
          Including many Medical professionals amongst the dead.

  3. “the abortion of hundreds of millions of children”

    60 million legal abortions in the US since Roe v. Wade. Disproportionately black. Nothing to see here.

        • The aborted do not have a choice in the matter and sadly their life is taken and their time of learning is no more.

          The difference in China is that neither mother or child have a choice if the government demands it. And while it is rare for people with a conscience here to condone the taking of a full term baby, that is just accepted in China because government is the ultimate authority.

          • I just don’t see how an American standing hip-deep in the blood of the unborn has the moral high ground on the issue of abortion. Take the log out of your own eye first, then open your vision clinic, Jesus said.

          • Nice way to say that nobody has any right to criticize anyone else.
            BTW, are you actually trying to claim that every single American is to blame for these abortions?

            BTW, Jesus was talking about judging sins. He also said to leave to Ceasar, those things that are Ceasar’s.

          • MarkW wrote: “Nice way to say that nobody has any right to criticize anyone else.”

            No, it isn’t. There is a real thing called “hypocrisy.” It’s calling out someone else on something you do yourself. That’s what I see here.

            “BTW, are you actually trying to claim that every single American is to blame for these abortions?”

            That’s an intriguing question, since in the USA “the people” are sovereign. The buck stops with the voters, at least. But you’ll be glad to know that nowhere near this level of self-reflection is necessary to talk about the hypocrisy of a particular elected politician, namely Senator Roth.

            “BTW, Jesus was talking about judging sins.”

            Yeah, you just torpedoed your first argument. Congratulations.

            “He also said to leave to Ceasar, those things that are Ceasar’s.”

            See above. We are Caesar.

    • Hi damp, – Forced abortion in China vs. abortion that is not forced in USA is/was something different. Now that the distinction is written down in print maybe there is something to see there after all.

      • In USA abortion is “sold” as life improvement measure.
        But as a TV ad or sales pitch it does not work, so it’s “sold” in public school.
        Or all schools indoctrinate
        indoctrinate:
        verb:
        teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
        Similar:
        brainwash
        propagandize
        proselytize
        inculcate
        re-educate
        And they indoctrinate long before the schools teach critical thinking- if even bother to teach critical thinking.
        So, USA does “force” by forcing to you listen to the endless drooling idiocy, but there no laws which punish you if you disobey the law.

        • The governor of Michigan says that abortion is “life sustaining.” She also deems lottery sales, liquor and pot stores as “essential.” One can’t purchase garden supplies or paint though.

          • Such a difference a good or bad Governor can make, such as Kristi Noem of South Dakota or Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan. It seems that the difference is whether one is of the Republican line of thought, or the Democrat line of thought. Not difficult to guess which Governor is from which party. Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan, is an embarrassment to politics in general, and I would think her political obituary is already written.

        • If no reparations. A. H. likely would not have come to power. He launched the deadliest war in history. No WW2 means no Iron Curtain over Eastern Europe and no Communist China.

          An estimated 3% of global population died, between 75 – 80 million killed.

          So no, those reparations did not do Germany any favors.

          • The German’s were PO’d about a lot of things from the Treaty of Versailles, not just the reparations. The Great Depression which hit Germany especially hard made things a lot worse as well.

            Reparations was more or less SOP after any major war up till WWI. What made WWII so unusual was that there were no demands for reparations afterword.

  4. “The resolution drafted by the Chinese Communist Party read as follows:
    “China has been transparent and quick in sharing key information of the virus with the WHO and the international community…”

    Here on Jan 25 is President Trump tweeting that China has been transparent and quick.

    “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

    Maybe she sent around a few emails.

    • Obviously he shouldn’t taken Xi at his word.

      At that point, there were no deaths in the U.S. and only a couple of cases. As you know, the situation changed rapidly and Trump against most advice halted international flights from China only 6 days later.

      People are now asking whether this was simply an accident and attempted cover-up by China or was it intentional. Whatever the case, their deception continues.

      • To be accurate Trump did not halt flights from China. US citizens and permanent residents
        could still travel to China. And anyone who wanted to could easily travel to a third country and
        then travel from there to the USA. Finally by the time Trump halted flights the virus was well
        established in the USA and so the action did not achieve anything substantial.

      • “Trump against most advice halted international flights from China only 6 days later”
        He didn’t halt the flights, although the airlines themselves had restricted flights. He barred entry to non-US citizens coming from China. Citizens could come and go freely, with exemptions also for family, permanent residents etc. Some 40,000 people came in after the ban.

        The WHO advice current at the time is here. It said
        “With the information currently available for the novel coronavirus, WHO advises that measures to limit the risk of exportation or importation of the disease should be implemented, without unnecessary restrictions of international traffic.”

        The measure that it recommended were basically entry screening (temperature etc). AFAIK the US did not implement this at that stage.

        • “WHO advises that measures to limit the risk of … the disease should be implemented, without unnecessary restrictions of international traffic.”

          How does that work, exactly?? Is there any evidence around to suggest that the WHO is anything other than “not fit for purpose”?

        • At the time your fellow travelers were saying Trumps ban was too extreme (and racist) now you (and your fellow travelers) are saying it wasn’t extreme enough. The TDS is strong with the Stokes.

        • “He didn’t halt the flights, although the airlines themselves had restricted flights. He barred entry to non-US citizens coming from China. Citizens could come and go freely, with exemptions also for family, permanent residents etc. Some 40,000 people came in after the ban.”

          This is a criticism? You don’t think Trump should have allowed U.S. citizens to return to the U.S.?

          I believe they were checking these people as they came into the U.S.

          Trump has gone out of his way to return stranded Americans to America. I don’t see that as a fault.

          • “You don’t think Trump should have allowed U.S. citizens to return to the U.S.?”

            Viruses don’t check passports. If this action is presented as a measure to keep infection out of the US, there would have to be some quarantine of people on arrival. Citizens and non-citizens can equally bring the disease.

          • Fortunately the US cannot deny reentry of law abiding citizens. In this country our rights are not granted by the state. Our rights preceded the birth of this nation.

            I am glad to be an American and not a subject. I do wish those 40,000 people were quarantined for 14 days, though.

          • Nick wants the “facts” that support only his view. The executive order covering this is gives the details and was soundly criticized by the left and all their trolls. It specifically outlines who is allowed: “The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China, excluding the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.”

            It also stipulates “The Secretary of Homeland Security shall take all necessary and appropriate steps to regulate the travel of persons and aircraft to the United States to facilitate the orderly medical screening and, where appropriate, quarantine of persons who enter the United States and who may have been exposed to the virus. Such steps may include directing air carriers to restrict and regulate the boarding of such passengers on flights to the United States.”

            Here is the actual EO.
            https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/

    • Granted, like so many other Western politicians it took DT a little while longer to realize that Xi was scr###ng the US, and everyone else.

      Terminally kind and polite Canada,actually sent just about its entire stock of face masks to the mothers, before it dawned on Justine and his merry fairies that Canada too was been reamed.

      • ” it took DT a little while longer to realize that Xi was scr###ng the US”

        So how long? Here he is tweeting on Mar 27:

        “Just finished a very good conversation with President Xi of China. Discussed in great detail the CoronaVirus that is ravaging large parts of our Planet. China has been through much & has developed a strong understanding of the Virus. We are working closely together. Much respect!”

        • Nick, this is public relations. Trump isn’t fooled by Xi. Trump has a big trade deal going with Xi, and it would be counterproductive to trash him and the Chinese leadership too early, and that’s what he is doing, erring on the side of positivity, even though it looks like he is not going to be able to do that much longer, as he himself suggested yesterday.

          When the U.S. intelligence report comes out pointing the finger at China’s leadership for the Wuhan virus pandemic, then I think we will see some changes in the rhetoric. I don’t know if that will blow the deal with China, afterall they have to eat, but I guess we’ll see.

          Trump is just saying nice, neutral things about Xi right now. That may not last. Cofrontation would not be good, but the truth is the truth.

          • “Nick, this is public relations. Trump isn’t fooled by Xi. Trump has a big trade deal going with Xi, and it would be counterproductive to trash him and the Chinese leadership too early, and that’s what he is doing, erring on the side of positivity”

            That doesn’t make it sound like he is being honest with the American people or the world. I wonder what you would be saying if, say, Joe Biden spoke in such a manner?

          • Joe Biden is such an enfeebled old man. His mental deficit is readily apparent as he can’t keep his wife’s and his sister’s names straight, can’t remember the name of the disease that caused the pandemic in Africa (Ebola). He can’t carry a thought without losing track of what he is talking about.

            Joe Biden has always been dim. He says stupid things and makes incorrect assertions all the time. “Dim Bulb” Joe’s only hope is to hide in his bunker and not take questions from people lest more catch on to his obvious mental deficit.

            I almost feel sorry for him. Almost. Biden launched his campaign with a video criticizing Trump over something Trump never said, used that to call Trump racist and a hater. So I won’t cut “Dim Bulb” Joe any slack until he permanently retires from public life.

          • Scuttlebutt has it that Biden is seriously considering Michelle Obama as his running mate.
            I wonder all those Democrats who were so bent out of shape over non-politician Trump running for office are going to say about that?

        • Nick,
          Quit playing coy. Watch Trump’s actions. His words are typically used as part of his negotiations. You probably know that though.

          • It’s hard to say what Nick knows. I doubt even he knows what he knows until after he’s read each mornings talking points memo.

    • Maybe she sent around a few emails.

      Nah, seems more likely Trump had been personally lied to by Xinping himself as of 25 January, rather than from some Party lackey. I mean, that’d be akin to someone like . . . well, you being tasked with getting the ear of our dear leader rather than Morrison doing it himself don’t you agree?

      If not, well if we believe the Guardian, then it looks like at least one of her emails got to Brendan Murphy. As of 27 January, he was arguing that intrahuman transmission was a myth, at least to humans who’d left Hubei province:

      Murphy says there is “no evidence of sustained human-to-human transmission outside of the Hubei province” and insufficient evidence to support quarantining passengers as they arrive.

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/03/timeline-how-australia-responded-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak

      That’s a pretty darned smart virus to understand its host is outside of Hubei province and thus it can’t leave, innit? Was Murphy relying on a “significant feed of data” coming from Chinese officials to say that do you reckon?

      Here he is on 23 January:

      “Thank you, Prime Minister. Just a little bit of extra information on top of what the Prime Minister has said. The Chinese authorities have now confirmed that there are 571 cases of confirmed coronavirus infections and 17 deaths. Those data are not surprising. We know that over the last week we’re getting a significant feed of data as the Chinese authorities get on top of some of the historical and retrospective data. This is what we expected to happen.”

      https://www.pm.gov.au/media/press-conference-parliament-house-0

      But I’ll bet your Nickers aren’t in a wad over any of the above. At least if they are, you don’t seem to have commented on it here. Now, what that bloody moron American president Trump does, THAT’S something else entirely I swanee!

      It’s really one of the more humorous things I’ve ever had the pleasure to watch in my short years, that an American president via TDS is able to live inside the heads of so many non-US citizens rent-free. So much so they spend their own, I assume valuable time tracking what he said on Twitter two months ago to complain about it on blogs like this one.

      I get us doing it, but you? “Really?” (h/t Jeff Alberts)

      As an American citizen, I can’t think of a single foreign head of state EVER that’s even broached the bottom of my left foot to cause me any lasting angst whatsoever, much less made it all the way to mein Kopf to live there. I didn’t even know the name of your PM until I looked him up today. No offense or anything.

      I guess maybe I should become more of a knowledgeable worldly type. Help me out. Do you and the other “Unterlanders” who hawkeye American presidents, their tweets and their various other doings in order to comment about them on the internet . . . do you DO anything of significance on the world stage at all???

  5. Incongruous how the ChiComs were touting “… quick sharing…” on Feb. 26,2020. The USA CDC by the time it publicly asked China for more “transparency” on Jan. 8, 2020 had already offered China assistance 3 times since Ja. 6th – which China shamefully ignored. The CDC even stated they did not need independent access, but were amenable to CDC being under the WHO’s auspices.

      • From your link Nick:

        The delegation commended the commitment and capacity demonstrated by national, provincial, and Wuhan authorities and by hundreds of local health care workers and public health specialists working to respond to the 2019-nCOV outbreak. While challenges still remain regarding the transmission, epidemiology and our understanding of the behavior of the virus, WHO and its partners will work together with China to respond to this outbreak.

        In other words, they came away no more alarmed that we were on the edge of a global pandemic than was Trump after he spoke with Xi a few days later. Not one word in their report about travel bans or other steps that could have been taken had we known then what we know now. China lied, the lied to everyone, and we’re just now learning the extent of the lies.

        • “In other words, they came away no more alarmed that we were on the edge of a global pandemic”
          It is not the function of the WHO to impose travel bans; that is for sovereign states. But they were alarmed. On the day after the delegation returned, the WHO convened an Emergency Committee meeting. This included Dr Martin Cetron, of the US CDC and other national representatives. They discussed whether to declare a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC, their highest level of alert). Some nations balked at that, and so the matter was deferred. The EC reconvened on 30 January, and the PHEIC was issued on that day.

          • Have you never witnessed how some skewed but still believable information and a few gentle nudges can swing an entire group into deluding itself?

            It called manipulation. And the CCP are past masters at it – I’ve been a China watcher for some 40 years and understand them all too well.

            Have they swayed you too?

          • “can swing an entire group into deluding itself”
            What is the delusion? Within a week of their visit to Wuhan, they declared their highest level of international alert. What do you think they should have done?

          • From the Jan 22nd WHO meeting…”It is expected that further international exportation of cases may appear in any country. Thus, all countries should be prepared for containment, including active surveillance, early detection, isolation and case management, contact tracing and prevention of onward spread of 2019-nCoV infection, and to share full data with WHO”

            Diplomatic language it’s true. Not quite _” s**t, it’s hit the fan” but close.

            Anybody who read that, including national leaders [assuming they bother to read], should have been very concerned. It seems that even if you were protected by tractors, saunas and vodka [belarus] it was not enough

          • It is not the function of the WHO to impose travel bans; that is for sovereign states.

            I didn’t say it was. Don’t put words in my mouth ( How Dare You!)

            But they were alarmed.

            Not alarmed enough to immediately issue a PHEIC

            Some nations balked at that </i?

            Oh. So the WHO didn't come back with strong enough evidence, despite having been on the ground first hand, to convince to convince everyone else. But Trump was supposed to figure out he'd been lied to by Xi byt what? Magic?

            The EC reconvened on 30 January, and the PHEIC was issued on that day.

            And the next day, Trump started taking action, despite the assurances to him of Xi. When the facts available changed, he changed his mind. What do you do sir? (Rhetorical question of course, as a climate researched you ‘re entitled to your own facts of course).

          • DMH,
            “Don’t put words in my mouth”
            You said:
            “Not one word in their report about travel bans”
            and I explained why this is not in the domain of WHO.

            “Not alarmed enough to immediately issue a PHEIC”
            They can’t. It’s their highest level of alarm, and they have to convene an Emergency Committee, which they did the next day. An alarm will be ineffective if the nations that should act on it are not consulted. Obviously the WHO management wanted an immediate declaration, but some on the Committee wanted to wait a few days until the facts became clearer.

            “But Trump was supposed to figure out he’d been lied to by Xi”
            How do you know he had been lied to by Xi? Anyway, Presidents are actually supposed to know stuff before they put it out as coming from the government of the United States.

            ” despite the assurances to him of Xi”
            Despite what assurances? China had already completely quarantined (on 23 Jan, with blockade) not only Wuhan but the whole province of Hubei. They were hardly soft-pedalling the matter.

          • There will be an investigation into WHO it is inevitable there are calls from UK, Germany, France, US, Australia and Italy. Angela Merkel is the latest of leaders from those countries to openly expressed that China also has been less than truthful and that there was an issue with WHO and Macron has been in a war of words with China all week.

            Personally I suspect that going forward WHO will be sliced down to actions in 3rd world. I don’t see any developed country trusting or relying on WHO again. I think you will see health departments in each country expand to take up the roll.

          • “China had already completely quarantined (on 23 Jan, with blockade) not only Wuhan but the whole province of Hubei. ”

            After warning the residents of Wuhan that it would happen so that 500,000 left before the lockdown.
            At no time did they stop their infected people leaving to infect the rest of the world.
            Are they paying you for this bull?

          • I love the “It is not the function of the WHO to impose travel bans” from Nick Stokes

            He is right apparently it is their function to complain to countries that did apply the travel bans and call them racist.

          • ” it is their function to complain to countries that did apply the travel bans and call them racist”
            “was criticized by China and WHO for doing so”
            I see no evidence in your link or elsewhere that WHO complained about anyone’s travel ban, let alone calling it racist.

          • Classic Stokes deflection take a post on one thing an claim it was given as evidence of something else … you really are disgustingly dishonest.

            It is pointless posting links because you just lie so search the dam thing yourself because I am sick of your stupid games. Search WHO director-general speach on Feb 5, 2020 where Dr Ghebreyesus said travel bans could add to fear and stigma and were rooted in racism.

            We both know you won’t bother to look because you don’t really care what the truth is.

          • Stokes
            Oh master of misdirection, you said, “It is not the function of the WHO to impose travel bans; … ” Yes, WHO does not have the authority to “impose travel bans.” However, if it is their professional medical judgment that a travel ban would be effective in containing, or at least reducing the spread of the disease, then they have a responsibility to recommend that countries impose impose travel bans! Not doing so is irresponsible. However, it relieves them of potentially making an erroneous recommendation with serious economic and political consequences. WHO failed in their responsibility of adequately preparing the world for what they should have known was going to happen. And, for some unfathomable reason, you are acting as an apologist for WHO’s unprofessional behavior.

          • When the facts available changed, he changed his mind. What do you do sir?

            In Nick’s case: argue dishonestly, deflect, and distract. Not necessarily in that order.

        • The earliest date when China could have published confirmation of HTH transmission may still be an open question, but it is certain that the collated data from the Chinese epidemiology study involving tracing of transmission routes from the first 400 cases was available by 18th January. This confirmed HTH transmission unambiguously.
          These data were definitely made available to the international community by the date of the WHO IHR Emergency Committee. From the report of the meeting published on the 23rd January…

          “Chinese authorities presented new epidemiological information that revealed an increase in the number of cases, of suspected cases, of affected provinces, and the proportion of deaths in currently reported cases of 4% (17 of 557). They reported fourth-generation cases in Wuhan and second-generation cases outside Wuhan, as well as some clusters outside Hubei province. They explained that strong containment measures (closure of public-transportation systems are in place in Wuhan City, as well as other nearby cities). After this presentation, the EC was informed about the evolution in Japan, Republic of Korea, and Thailand, and that one new possible case had been identified in Singapore.

          The Committee welcomed the efforts made by China to investigate and contain the current outbreak.

          The following elements were considered as critical:

          Human-to-human transmission is occurring and a preliminary R0 estimate of 1.4-2.5 was presented. Amplification has occurred in one health care facility. Of confirmed cases, 25% are reported to be severe. The source is still unknown (most likely an animal reservoir) and the extent of human-to-human transmission is still not clear. “

      • Might be wrong but I believe a couple of WHO notables showed up first, negotiations ensued as to when the rest of the team would be allowed in. Delay of a week or so, but that’s just recollection. What isn’t uncertain is China refused CDC being involved.

        Would take some digging to find the report, I also recall seeing in it that the WHO didn’t quibble as to China’s stance that the vast majority of healthcare workers were being infected in what they called family settings. Think they pegged on the job at around 5%.

        On the other hand, I saw Bruce Alwyrd explaining how the team practiced the social distancing thing while they were there. Sat one to a table when they ate and either shouted to each other or used phones.

        Somewhere in all this, there was some serious bull-shitting/sucking-up going on when their report was written. Or maybe not… maybe they just couldn’t connect the dots.

        • “Delay of a week or so, but that’s just recollection”
          Seems unlikely. The delegation was in Wuhan on Jan 20. Hard to see how a week’s delay could be fitted in.

          • “Seems unlikely. The delegation was in Wuhan on Jan 20. Hard to see how a week’s delay could be fitted in.”

            You reckon it couldn’t have happened, therefore it didn’t? It’s obvious you are arguing just to get attention and have no useful thoughts on this matter.

      • CDC by the time it publicly asked China for more “transparency” on Jan. 8, 2020 had already offered China assistance 3 times since Ja. 6th

        In fact, a WHO delegation was invited to Wuhan, and was there on Jan 20-21

        Um, Jan 20-21 is a couple weeks *After* Jan 6-8th. that’s a couple of weeks of no transparency (and that months after the outbreak first started in Nov-Dec or possibly even sooner).

  6. Something folks can do to put their mind at ease in this scary time is buy a pulse oximeter to measure their oxygen saturation (sat) whenever they feel unwell. They’re relatively cheap. Normal sat is between 95-100. Sometimes during the early stages of covid people feel fine, but their sat is dropping without them knowing (silent hypoxemia). When it gets too low they start feeling bad and head to the hospital with hypoxemia. If you have a pulseox you can know when it starts dropping. The prevailing wisdom is that it’s better to catch it as early as possible. So if you started noticing your sat dropping and staying below 95 for a day or two, you could contact your doctor.

    NH Doctor Believes Pulse Oximeters Could Help Patients Get Ahead Of Coronavirus
    https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/04/20/coronvirus-symptoms-oximeter-oxygen-levels-dr-richard-levitan/

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWBroSCX0AIC9vl?format=jpg

    • I’ve used one mostly when I fly unpressurized aircraft above 9,000’ MSL for quite a few years now. I also use one to get a good resting heartbeat number after I go to bed. I will say the reading can vary some over a few minutes but should stay 95+ for healthy adults.

      If it drops under 95 take some measured deep breaths and it should go over 95 within a minute or so. If it doesn’t I would say it is very much worth investigating why. It might be time to just get off the couch and start exercising or it could mean something a little more serious. You can get a good one for $30 US and well worth the investment.

  7. In light of the CCP ongoing efforts to deflect blame and gas light their response to this Virus Plague it makes many suspicious of their motives. Patient Zero was revealed in the first week in December and blamed on the wet market in Wuhan. Later information showed that a number of the people that first became infected with this new virus had no contact with this wet market. Not one block away from this wet market is the Wuhan Virus Research Laboratory.

    The head of virus research there is a woman named Shi Zhengil. Since 2004 Shi has published 4 papers on her research of the Corona Bat viruses. Her last peer reviewed paper was vilified because Shi was modifying the Bat Corona virus to make it infectious to primates to further her research. Shi was able to splice into the Bat virus the genes for SARS and HIV. The gene code for this COVID 19 was released to the world early in January and after some researchers examined it they found that there were 4 areas with these genes spliced in them. The same researchers said that the odds of this to occur naturally and to be located where they are in the sequence was too astronomical to calculate.

    In 2016 the US state department inspected this Wuhan Lab because there was a grant from the Obama government to study Ebola. The audit performed by the scientific experts hired by the US state department was communicated back to the US in two messages. The findings were that this Level 4 Bio Lab was not been operated in a safe and secure manner. Their findings also showed that there were interns and lab technicians who were not trained properly to work safely at a level 4 facility and some higher containment protocols were NOT been observed all the time. There was a posting on the Chinese equivalent of Face Book by an employee at this lab that called out Shi Zhengil for lack of following guidelines and protocols late last year.
    In November of 2019 a woman intern was removed from the Wuhan Virus Labs employee page and that intern has not been seen since. The timing of this interns removal from the employee listing is about 10 to 14 days before the announced official patient Zero.

    In late December and early January a number of doctors in Wuhan were detained by police for posting messages reporting a NEW form of pneumonia in the Wuhan region. In early January the CCP and local Wuhan government issued a statement that was later regurgitated by the WHO “This virus does not transmit through human to human contact.” The Wuhan and the CCP government then forced a lock down of the city of Wuhan but for some strange reason international air travel from Wuhan was allowed to continue.
    In the middle of January the CCP government took over the Wuhan Virus research lab and appointed the head of the Chinese Military Bio weapons as the interim Facility supervisor. After that appointment this lab went totally dark and all communications and internet connections were cut off. The suspected source of the outbreak the Sea food wet market was closed and every thing inside was removed and the whole facility was sterilized.
    China had to sign a number of treaties with the rest of the world to be allowed to have a Level 4 Bio Lab for this research. In those treaties it states that in case of an outbreak the area of the outbreak must be accessible to all parties like the CDC and China must cooperate with the investigation. So far China has NOT fulfilled their end of these treaties. Another point that is quite glaring is that the head researcher for these Bat Corona viruses Shi Zhengil has dropped off the face of the earth and it is strange that such an “EXPERT” should not be consulted and be at the for front of the battle against this plague.

    If you want to spend some time watching the back ground on this here are some VERY interesting links to actual researchers looking into this

    Stefen Molyneux The Case Against China.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0SB8DyhvGg

    LIVE CHAT! China’s virus lab INTENTIONALLY harvested bats for their virus potential!

    • Oops missed the last link to the web site.
      LIVE CHAT! China’s virus lab INTENTIONALLY harvested bats for their virus potential!

    • “Not one block away from this wet market is the Wuhan Virus Research Laboratory.”
      Much exaggeration and inaccuracy in this post. But to focus on just one, it isn’t a block away. They are 14 km apart, separated by the Yangtze River.

      Here is a map.

      • I think there are a couple of articles out there that are wrong about the lab location. One had the virology lab near an Italian restaurant that I used to frequent, which wasn’t far from the wet market.

        I worked about 3 miles from the lab and never knew it. By cab, it takes quite along time to get to the Hankou side of the river most times. The subway system is much faster but crowded.

      • The map showing the Sea food market from the OTHER Virus lab in Wuhan is 280 Meters or 918.5 Feet apart. That is about a block in my world. Time in the Video above is 39:10 for the map of Wuhan. Wuhan is home to two virus labs. Shi Zhengil works for the Wuhan Center for Disease Control the source of THIS virus. Your reply is referencing the other lab not the one that made this virus. Nick Stokes you are obliviously on this site to try and gaslight for your Demonrat and Chinese masters or maybe you are a supposed journalist working for the fake news.

        • “The map showing the Sea food market from the OTHER Virus lab in Wuhan is 280 Meters or 918.5 Feet apart. That is about a block in my world. Time in the Video above is 39:10 for the map of Wuhan. Wuhan is home to two virus labs. Shi Zhengil works for the Wuhan Center for Disease Control the source of THIS virus.”

          Here is what you wrote:
          “Not one block away from this wet market is the Wuhan Virus Research Laboratory.
          The head of virus research there is a woman named Shi Zhengil.”

          That is just wrong. The high security (BSL-4) Lab is the Wuhan Institute of Virology, 14 km from the market, and that is where Shi Zengli works, an where there is research on coronaviruses. The Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention is the local office of the CDC (China); it is not a high security research laboratory (it has BSL-2 rating).

          • If they would classify the research on bat corona viruses as “agents which do not cause disease in healthy humans” then they could justify even BSL-1 if they want to.

            All about labeling. It is total unlikely that all research is done in BSL-4. Zika and Dengue are only BSL-3, HIV, HepA/B/C are BSL-2 which is basically BSL-1 just handling the garbage differently and taking more precautions.

            I am not saying that it was like that I just have seen how different safety measures are put into practice in labs in different countries that I would not be overly surprised.

      • There are two labs in Wuhan that deal with viruses carried by bats, not one. One is a level BLS-4 (highest security), the other BLS-2. The latter is close to the market, but shows up in different places (and different distances) on different maps.

        There is discussion of the labs’ location here: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4762#comments. See particularly comments #32, 34, 38, 44, and 50-51.

        • “There are two labs in Wuhan that deal with viruses carried by bats, not one.”

          No, there is only one. It is the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where Shi Zhengli works, and it is 14 km away from the market. There are also branches of the Center for Disease Control and Prevention. There are several such, as you can see on the map here. I’ve marked with a prominent symbol the one that is reasonably the market (a 1.4 km walk according to Google Maps). It is the Wuhan Jianghan Disease Prevention and Control Center on the map, ie the Jianghan branch. There are also branches at Jiang’an, Wuchang, Hanyang, Qingshan, Hangshan etc within the city, shown on the map. There is nothing special about the Jianghan center, except that it the one nearest to the market.

          • No, there *are* (at least) two labs in Wuhan that have worked with COV-type viruses in bats. See here: https://imgur.com/z7xXhqO (a BLS-2 level lab 4.2km from market) “National Virus Medical Control Center” aka “Wuhan Centers for Disease Prevention and Control” (WCDC), and the “Wuhan Institute of Virology” (WIV, a BLS-4 level lab about 13km from the market). You can see both in the maps in section 8.2 here: https://project-evidence.github.io/#%28part._sus%29. See section 8.5 of that report about the WIV, and section 8.6 about the WCDC.

          • “a BLS-2 level lab 4.2km from market”
            Well, that is yet another lab. It is shown on my map, and is one of several locations with some variant of CDC label. It’s true that unlike the others, it does not bear a regional name (just Wuhan) so it may have a central function. But your other title is “National Virus Medical Control Center” and I think that is the clue. I suspect the BLS-2 aspect relates to a function as a pathology lab, analysing material from patients (eg Covid swabs). That is why there is a distributed network.

      • I believe the Institute of Virology is an office building which houses the admin for the lab. I understand the Lab itself is indeed 300 meters away from the wetfood market. Two separate structures with separate functions.

  8. After the results of economic suicide by enforced lockdown maybe a generation to recover. Indeed what generation will payoff the debt?

  9. Nonsense of those that support the US administrations grand bungling of this crisis.

    What Western politicians have to gain by blaming China is, they hope, to distract their citizens from China’s wonderful handling of Covid-19 and their own disastrous mishandling of the outbreak.

    Politicians who blame China also want to distract everyone from the US refuses to identify its index case, Patient Zero.

    Politicians who blame China are attempting to break global supply chains and de-globalize the world economy and so that they can freeze the world in its capitalist unipolarity.

    Politicians who blame China–especially Britain and Australia are attempting to ‘make China pay’ for the pandemic and de-globalize the world economy.

    Politicians who blame China are running a publicity campaign to smear China and convince countries to trade less with China.

    Politicians who blame China are hoping that ‘broken supply chains,’ will force everyone to relocate their manufacturing because China can’t be trusted. But China saw this coming and fulfilled all its contracts by keeping critical industries operating and by upgrading freight deliveries from ship to train and train to plane, where necessary. There have been remarkably few supply chain complaints.

    Politicians who blame China are doing what they always do: blaming others for their own shortcomings.

    Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab:
    https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-scientists-think-of-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-lab-rumour

    The New Anti-China Campaign Is Built On Lies
    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/the-new-anti-china-campaign-is-built-on-lies.html

    The fact that President Donald Trump attacked the official US state broadcasting outlet, Voice of America, as an organ of Chinese government propaganda is a testament to just how important anti-China rhetoric is to his political strategy in regards to the Covid-19 pandemic.

    https://fair.org/home/covid-19-speculation-goes-from-margin-to-center/

    “Pure Baloney”: Zoologist Debunks Trump’s COVID-19 Origin Theory, Explains Animal-Human Transmission
    https://youtu.be/5x_pIgvDLcg

    The coronavirus was not engineered in a lab. Here’s how we know.
    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

    Scientific evidence indicates virus that causes COVID-19 infection is of natural origin, not the result of human engineering
    https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/scientific-evidence-indicates-virus-that-causes-covid-19-infection-is-of-natural-origin-not-the-result-of-human-engineering/

    THE CHINA HOAX: Is China Being Framed?
    https://off-guardian.org/2019/05/07/the-china-hoax-is-china-being-framed/

    “Neither the Chinese government nor US intelligence agencies are particularly trustworthy sources. So if they disagree about whether China’s figures on its Covid-19 outbreak are accurate, as Bloomberg reported, is there any way to tell who’s telling the truth?”

    “Stopping a virus requires identifying and isolating cases of infection, and if you pretend to have done so when you really haven’t, the uncaught cases will grow exponentially. Maintaining a hidden set of real statistics and another set for show would require the secret collusion of China’s 2 million doctors and 3 million nurses—the kind of improbable cooperation that gives conspiracy theories a bad name.”

    https://fair.org/home/you-dont-need-to-believe-china-about-chinas-coronavirus-success/

    Part 1 of a 3 part series.
    “Quite correctly, the World Health Organization’s Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus called for “solidarity, not stigma” in a speech given on February 14, long before the virus had hit Europe or North America. Ghebreyesus knew that there would be a temptation to blame China for the virus, in fact, to use the virus as a weapon to attack China in the most repulsive way. His slogan —solidarity, not stigma—was intended to sharply demarcate an internationalist and humanist response to the global pandemic from a narrow bigoted and unscientific response to the virus.”

    https://mronline.org/2020/03/30/growing-xenophobia-against-china-in-the-midst-of-coronashock/

    Part 2
    “The Western media have consistently made scientifically unfounded claims about the source of the virus, even when Western scientists were urging caution. They were certainly not listening to the doctors in Wuhan or to public health experts in China.”
    https://mronline.org/2020/04/07/how-china-learned-about-sars-cov-2-in-the-weeks-before-the-global-pandemic/

    Part 3. How China broke the chain of infection.
    https://mronline.org/2020/04/19/how-china-broke-the-chain-of-infection/

    Corona Virus Timeline by American blogger living in China
    https://youtu.be/kO5EXjFKE7U

    The U.S. claims that China did not inform it sufficiently. The timeline as published by China and confirmed by media reports does not support that claim.

    http://pa.china-embassy.org/esp/gdxw/t1767087.htm

        • Trump is to blame for not acting on information the Chinese government was hiding from the world.
          Trump is to fault for not acting more strongly, even as the socialists at the time were condemning him for over reacting.

      • Some internet sites I’ll read dissembling posts & see another commentator pointing out how briefly the dissembler had been posting there. I always wondered how that detail could be known by anyone outside of the site administrator.

        Many others suspicious of a dissembler ask sarcastic things: like what time their shift starts, or how the pay rate is structured. Mark S. post time is 9:38 p.m. & if that is USA eastern standard time then it would have been a work day getting well into gear at 9:38 a.m in Beijing.

        WUWT could sift for opportunistic commentators probably by posing a climate question. Something like: quick, in the next 60 seconds post the answer to what elevated CO2 usually does to … “X” ….

    • there was a big push on to stop the Chinese 5G in the UK and elsewhere around the world. Corona virus has worked.

    • Politicians who blame China are attempting to break global supply chains and de-globalize the world economy and so that they can freeze the world in its capitalist unipolarity.

      Of course. Any sane politician would do that. This crisis revealed clearly shortcomings of ‘globalisation’ where vital components and products have to be imported from China and different countries. Even UE complains that they export machinery for face mask production to China and then they buy those masks from China. Bit weird, isn’t it?

    • “The fact that President Donald Trump attacked the official US state broadcasting outlet, Voice of America, as an organ of Chinese government propaganda is a testament to just how important anti-China rhetoric is to his political strategy in regards to the Covid-19 pandemic.”

      Trump was complaining about the anti-American rhetoric from the “Voice of America”. Imagine that, the Voice of America is anti-American. What’s the world coming to?

      Trump was complaining that the Democrats were stonewalling all his appointees, including the person he appointed to head the Voice of America. Trump still has about 300 appointees being stonewalled by the Democrats almost four years into his first term. Unprecedented obstruction of the functioning of our nation’s government. I would call it treasonous and an abuse of power on the part of the Democrats.

      When Trump’s appointee gets in the job, he will stop the anti-Americanism coming out of the Voice of America.

    • So it doesn’t matter that China lied and with held information from the rest of the world?

      The Chinese troll wants everyone to believe that the fault lies with western governments, who failed to act on information they didn’t have.

      Ah yes, the timeline as given by the Chinese government is the only information anyone should be using.

      How much are you being paid?

      • son?

        jesus. His sister is the only one with any power

        Son? there are no mentions in state media about him having any children.
        rumors here in Seoul is that he had a son in 2010

        Chances are a 10 year old will not be made leader.

        maybe his nephew? son of the brother he killed?

        Not likely as the nephew would kill the sister

        Maybe his other brother? probably not, he is not interested in politics

        So here in Seoul most people discount the news, and if it is true, his Sister is the most
        likely successor. There are still issues there, too complex.

  10. This is caving in on the communist party leadership.

    Party leadership:

    A revolution could happen.

    If the Chinese People hate their overlords enough.

    And, don’t be naive… the politburo is ruthless & brutal.

    And the Chinese People know it.

    But, if a billion people have had enough, then the Politburo will end.

    The politburo is hungry for power… so hungry, I’ve heard they import armadillo (as a delicacy) from south Texas and nobody skips out when armadillo is on the menu…

  11. WUWT was for me always a place where I could get good information around the topic of climate and energy both of which a highly politicized in media and real life.
    However, over the past few years I noticed WUWT to get itself more and more politicized in topics outside of climate and energy. Why?
    Don’t you recognize that this is like a trap to get us distracted from the real issue? Chinese Virus? Does it has a flag printed on its body? Since when does nature care about nations?
    The differences we see in the fallout of the Coronavirus is a consequence of how far our healthcare system has been “profitized” pushed by a neo-liberal agenda that life revolves around profit.
    Germany had before the outbreak 25000 ICU while Italy and Spain had each 4000 ICU. Accordingly the number of Coronavirus death-rates are higher in those nations because they cannot treat that many cases at the same time.
    China is not the only nations with relatively low death-rates. Look to South Korea, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan etc. All nations which are not as strongly in the grip of profit over everything else.
    Dont let WUWT driven down the wrong ally of politzed topics which distract us from Climate and Energy!

    • 195 countries with Corona

      45 countries with no deaths.

      10 countries where the majority of deaths happened.

      No lock down countries no different to lock down countries. Japan with very few deaths.

      Daily deaths and cases declining
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/worldwide-graphs/

      “The three week rise is fairly typical for these type of viral outbreaks. The graph below is for the 1918-1919 Spanish Flu, which globally killed five hundred times as many people as COVID-19, most of whom were at prime of life in their teens, 20s and 30s. The Spanish Flu also showed a three week exponential rise, followed by a sharp decline. But three weeks into the outbreak, people probably assumed it was going to kill everybody”
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#/media/File:1918_spanish_flu_waves.gif

      Data now illustrate that deaths were misattributed.
      Moreover deaths came from wrong treatment. Lack of care, nurses fled from nursing homes and deaths from “risk of so-called nosocomial infections, i.e. infections that the patient, who may only be mildly ill, acquires in hospital. It is estimated that there are approximately 2.5 million nosocomial infections and 50,000 deaths per year in Europe. Even in German intensive care units, about 15% of patients acquire a nosocomial infection, including pneumonia on artificial respiration. There is also the problem of increasingly antibiotic-resistant germs in hospitals.

      Another aspect is the certainly well-intentioned but sometimes very aggressive treatment methods that are increasingly used in Covid19 patients. These include, in particular, the administration of steroids, antibiotics and anti-viral drugs (or a combination thereof). Already in the treatment of SARS-1 patients, it has been shown that the outcome with such treatment was often worse and more fatal than without such treatment’

    • Where did you get the notion that this site was ever supposed to be about just climate change and energy?

    • Beyond that, a couple of years ago is when it started to become obvious that the main reason why so many were pushing the global warming agenda was in order to support their own political agendas.

      Global warming has always been about reshaping the world’s economy. They’ve even admitted it.
      It’s become obvious that merely dealing with the phony science is sufficient to deal with the entire threat.

  12. Thanks to who ever posted this-

    https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/04/07/2004999117/F1.large.jpg

    Covid19 originated in Yunnan, not Wuhan, in September 2019.

    This new research from Cambridge University UK sheds light on the virus’ origin and how it spread. The team of scientists mapped the network of strains of the virus that differ by small mutations (the small notches in the lines). The length of the lines shows how many mutations happened from one form to the other. This powerful method lays bare the history of covid19.

    – 3 big clusters are the main types: A is Yunnan in south China, B is Wuhan and C is Europe. Colour of each circle represents the region. Notice the bat – the black dot in the bottom right corner.

    – The virus jumped from bat to human in Yunnan (not Wuhan) – cluster A – as early as September 2019. From there it went to Wuhan, but some spread to America and Europe occurred direct from Yunnan.

    – B, Wuhan is the biggest cluster. All transmission of B type out of Asia was accompanied by mutation.

    – C is the Europe mutated strain, absent from China.

    Generally it’s clear that a lot of links keep forming, as people travel. But the genetic map shows the origin and how emergence of new types accompanied spread around the world.

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/200499911

    • Vuk
      I suppose that the number of deaths as a result of respiratory complications in the UK is much higher than confirmed deaths on Covid-19. It is similar in Poland.
      Do you know how much the number of deaths has increased since February compared to previous years?

  13. Lord Monckton is following British House of Lords Policy – here fully published :
    Select Committee on International Relations UK foreign policy in a shifting world order
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldintrel/250/25002.htm
    How about Chapter 2: Disruption and change to the global balance of power
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldintrel/250/25005.htm#_idTextAnchor011

    39.However, the difficulty the UK and its allies have faced in trying to influence the US demonstrates the challenge of working with the Administration. How damaging this will be to what has hitherto been the UK’s most important international relationship will depend on whether the current approach is an enduring trend. <bShould President Trump win a second term, or a similar Administration succeed him, the damage to UK–US relations will be longer lasting; and the Government will need to place less reliance on reaching a common US/UK approach to the main issues of the day than has often been the case in the past.

    Since Russiagate failed, impeachment failed, it sure looks like Britain is using COVID to prevent any cooperation with the BRI and the US.

    Of course the British House of Lord’s has as usual willing US servants, but it is truly amazing to see in plain sight here at WUWT that policy, in your face, so to speak.

    M’Lud, is it a sign of desperation?

    • Note the British House of Lords problem :
      Should President Trump win a second term, or a similar Administration succeed him, the damage to UK–US relations will be longer lasting;

    • “Should President Trump win a second term, or a similar Administration succeed him, the damage to UK–US relations will be longer lasting; and the Government will need to place less reliance on reaching a common US/UK approach to the main issues of the day than has often been the case in the past.”

      What are the main issues of the day that supposedly separate the U.S. and UK? The only one I can think of is the Human-Caused Climate Change issue. Is this enough for the UK leadership to take such a stupid position? A bunch of damn fools.

      That’s why Britain is in the shape it is in now. Britain is being run by a bunch of damn fools. And they aren’t alone. With the exception of the U.S, and possibly eastern Europe, all the western nations are being run by a bunch of damn fools. Visions fo windmlls dancing in their delusional heads.

      Thank God for President Trump!

    • Bon Bon

      Monckton has never been a member of the British house of lords having inherited the title after the act that banned the inheriting of house of lords positions

      He has certainly had a very interesting career but never debating in the house or helping to shape their policies

      Tonyb

  14. The “nothing more than a typical flu” faction assume their hypothesis is true that social distancing is a farce with no efficacy. This is what would properly be called “begging the question” btw.

    If they are wrong, and social distancing breaks the chain of infection significantly, then comparing a bad flu season to this pandemic is comparing apples to oranges.

    Either compare flu deaths in a flu season under lockdown to covid-19 under lockdown, or flu deaths in a bad year under normal open conditions against covid-19 without any social distancing. Of course both comparisons are hypothetical.

    We haven’t run those experiments and never will. But NYC outcomes must be close to the very low end of what covid-19 looks like with ineffective social distancing. Those of you arguing “it’s no worse than a flu”—never mind US deaths, how does New York City’s death count this year compare to a bad flu season? Then apply that across the whole country with a multiplier to account for NY’s belated lockdown.

    The evidence in Santa Clara county shows that where social distancing occurred early and there was no “surge”, exposure in the general population was exceedingly low. It is probably around 1.5% (if the criticisms of the study are true that people who had had symptoms were trying to get a free test to find out if it was the ‘Rona and so are over represented).

    One tiny bit of useful news in the Monday Trump Show, Arizona is conducting a controlled study to determine how many people have antibodies to sars-cov2. That should be a similar population to Santa Clara county, so we may soon have a more reliable answer about what the extent of infection has been in a region that hasn’t seen major issues yet.

    What is really needed is the same sort of randomized study with a representative sample, to detect sars-cov2 antibodies in the population of a post-surge city, ideally, New York City. No word that I know of that anybody is doing that.

    Before focusing on being able to run 21 million diagnostic tests, or at least in parallel with those efforts, you would think that there would be more interest in knowing if maybe 16 million are already immune.

    The wild speculation will continue I suppose, at least for another week.

    • “What is really needed is the same sort of randomized study with a representative sample, to detect sars-cov2 antibodies in the population of a post-surge city, ideally, New York City. No word that I know of that anybody is doing that.”

      I think Governor Cuomo of New York said yesterday they were going to start antibody testing on a large scale in New York, beginning with all the medical workers. He didn’t say exactly when it would start but gave the impression that it would begin very soon.

      • Thanks for that, but “beginning with the medical workers” means that it won’t be a randomized study with a representative sample.

        It will provide some useful information to be sure, especially about the risk that asymptomatic medical workers present to vulnerable patients, and the risk that infected patients have on medical workers, but I would be very surprised if medical workers don’t have a high proportion of positive results for antibodies. That can’t be extrapolated to the general public in NYC.

      • they will start with 2000, random sample

        Antibody testing is not going to give you guys what you want.

        1. It will lower the death rate some, but Covid has already killed more in a month than
        flu kills in a year.
        2. They will never test enough people to use it as a “back to work” criteria

        In the end expect governors to use it on essential employees..

        medical workers, police, fire, government employees.

        The only way the antibody testing will make a difference to policy is if a huge percentage
        have antibodies..

        • Another positive thing might be that if good antibody tests are developed to measure the titer and effectiveness in essential workers already gone through the disease it might also accelerate the availability of a (still to be developed) vaccine to the broader public as those people wouldn’t need it.

  15. Christopher Monckton z Brenchley
    Polish doctors are starting plasma therapy from people who have recovered from Covid-19 next week. 600 ml of plasma can be taken from one person at a time. One 200 ml dose is enough for therapy. Plasma alone (without whole blood) can be collected every two weeks. To collect plasma, you must wait two weeks after the last negative CoV-2 test.

    • What is the danger in using this type of therapy in Nursing Homes with very sick people? Nursing Homes should be the first places where we immunize people against the Wuhan virus, if this kind of therapy doesn’t present a danger to the patients, and I don’t know the answer to that question. I imagine someone here does, though. :).

      • People in nursing homes should be vaccinated with plasma with antibodies (prophylactically). Older people become infected easily with coronavirus. All personnel get infected by the way.

    • “Passive antibody therapy involves the administration of antibodies against a given agent to a susceptible individual for the purpose of preventing or treating an infectious disease due to that agent. In contrast, active vaccination requires the induction of an immune response that takes time to develop and varies depending on the vaccine recipient. Thus, passive antibody administration is the only means of providing immediate immunity to susceptible persons.”

  16. From the article: “Senator Roth drafted a resolution, but it was not what the Communist Party wanted. It says that the virus had originated in Wuhan, that the Communist Party had a long history of human and natural rights abuses, including the invasion and occupation of Tibet, the internment and “re-education” of 1.5 million Muslim Uyghurs in concentration camps, the abortion of hundreds of millions of children, most of them female, organ harvesting and forced sterilization, crackdown on the Tiananmen Square protesters and restrictions on individual expression and religious practice, currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, and opposition to democracy in and out of China, culminating in the failure to disclose the outbreak to the world in time. The resolution cited the result of a Southampton University study that concluded that if China had disclosed the outbreak in time, the spread of the virus could have been reduced by 95%.”

    That’s my kind of resolution!

    That resolution describes the people we are dealing with. We should have no illusions about them. They (the Chinese leadership) are not our friends.

  17. Apart from where exactly this virus originated and how it made the jump into people, is the question of research on viruses and other infectious diseases in general.
    Where would we be in such a situation as we have now, if there were not research on infectious viruses, corona viruses, the diseases they cause, and gaining elaborate and detailed knowledge of all of these particulars?
    We need to have people that study and understand these things, and the places where dangerous microorganisms are best studied is in high security research labs.
    BS-4 stands for Biosafety Level 4, which is where the most dangerous infectious agents are studied.
    The problem is not having such labs and people doing such research.

  18. God bless Senator Roger Roth – WI and his Senate Resolution 7: Relating to: acknowledging that the Communist Party of China deliberately and intentionally misled the world on the Wuhan Coronavirus and standing in solidarity with the Chinese people to condemn the actions of the Communist Party of China.

    Senator Roth is demonstrating the independent integrity and stalwart character lacking in Governor Evers and Wisconsin democrats such as Sen. Tammy Baldwin who eagerly embrace the deceptive ploys of socialism.

  19. Willis needs to post a big post here on the Swedish results as of this date. Its quite remarkable Sweden and |Belarus 10 Rest of World with lockdowns 0 as far as economic social health consequences are concerned. The mainstream media are so concerned about the results from Sweden that they are backdating all their stories by weeks and months so that people cannot see current data. Check it out yourselves. Also beware of censorship by Facebook and Google its really becoming 1984 my friends ! I believe the USA britain Australia are self imolating by the lockdows and total deaths would have been excatly the same with or without lockdowns because all the curves every where are the same and I bet that nearly everybody has already got the virus or mixed host version long time ago nearly 100% without symptons except very old dying persons and the big winner here will be China lock stock and barrel. Another point there seesm to be a 100% correlation between people who believe in AGW and lockdowns anybody notice?? cheers

    • “Willis needs to post a big post here on the Swedish results as of this date. Its quite remarkable Sweden and |Belarus 10 Rest of World with lockdowns 0 as far as economic social health consequences are concerned.”

      Sweden.

      First some facts.

      1. The major of infections can be traced to Family to family. > 50%
      2 Person to friend > 20%

      The balance are at work and at group gatherings.

      Sweden is lucky since >50% of people live alone,

      next is social distancing: without a policy swedes are not dumb. they are voluntarily
      reducing their mobility– more than some countries that have lockdowns.

      bottom line: USA is nothing like Sweden, you can’t learn much from the example.

  20. My heart goes out to the people (not “People”). The Chinese government, the ChiCom Part, and the People’s Liberation Army are threats to the free world.

    IMO, The People’s Republic is a rogue nation and should be isolated until the Chinese people rebel and overthrow the Communists.

  21. New study released just minutes ago for the NEJM, pending publication:
    “Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.

    RELATED
    Maine Med joins clinical trials for Remdesivir to fight COVID-19
    About 28 percent who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11 percent of those getting routine care alone. About 22 percent of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.

    Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

    Researchers did not track side effects, but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs.”

    https://www.pressherald.com/2020/04/21/more-deaths-no-benefit-from-drug-touted-by-trump-for-virus-use-va-study-finds/#

    More deaths, no benefit, organ damage.

    • This part was a related story imbedded within the copied text.
      I should have removed it:
      “RELATED
      Maine Med joins clinical trials for Remdesivir to fight COVID-19”

      • Which part of posting news of the results of ongoing medical research frightens you, snowflake?
        Maybe the part that contradicts every word out of your injudicious mouth for weeks in end?

        It is obvious you have very limited grasp of English, and even worse of idiom.
        Results of highly anticipated research is not a witch hunt, jackass.

        • You are right, I’m not native English speaker, beside German native, French was my main language, English was an also-ran after Latin (in French 😀 ) So excuse I’m not writing as screwed as you like to do 😀

          Results of highly anticipated research is not a witch hunt
          Most of them are not even scientific, and I didn’t mean the studies, but your special pointing on.

      • Gans
        If you were keeping up with the news, you would see that there are a number of new studies reporting either lack of efficacy, and/or dangerous side-effects from HCQ.

  22. And another new story:
    “Dramatic moment All-American lacrosse star, 26, walks out of hospital after his mother fought for him to be given experimental drug Remdesivir to pull him out of coronavirus coma”

    “Allard, who is an All-American lacrosse player, had been placed in a medically-induced coma and was being kept on a ventilator at Hackensack Meridian Health JFK Medical Center in Edison, before he was flown to the University of Pennsylvania hospital to take part in the trial.

    He became sick with Covid-19 on March 13, but his mom Genny Allard told ABC News the lab that processing his results somehow lost his sample. She claims it set back his treatment about five days.

    The delay in returning a positive test meant Allard wasn’t allowed access to potentially life-saving experimental drugs. His mom successfully fought to get him placed into a clinical trial of the experimental drug Remdesivir at UPenn.”

    “‘He spent more than 20 days on a ventilator and miraculously got off. It just shows you how strong he is.'”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8241085/All-American-lacrosse-star-leaves-hospital-wakes-coronavirus-coma.html

    Separately, data from all New York patients indicates 80% of people placed on ventilators are dying.

  23. The Chinese minister of Propaganda, issued a video today with Arab subtitles to push their story that a US citizen travelled to China and unleashed covid-19 …. or the US developed covid-19 in a lab and the released it in Wuhan.

    As we all know that story is impossible.

    The US military cannot develop illegal war weapons as we have checks and balances to stop evil things like a biological weapon from being developed and being used.

    China, on the other hand, has no checks and balances in their system. They make their citizens disappear. China kidnaps citizens of other countries. China threats countries with economic consequences if they do not let China steal their trade secrets and buy/steal their businesses.

    When investigating a possible criminal act…. the first question is always: Who would benefit from the criminal deed? and Who will loss?

    This is 20 trillion dollar question:

    Covid-19 is a win in the ‘Game of Thrones’ from the Chinese standpoint.

    … covid-19 has caused the US and almost every other developed countries’ GDP to drop by 30% ….

    France, Italy, Spain, and Greece are facing bankruptcy.

    … while the Chinese GDP only dropped by 6%.

    It looks as the Chinese were prepared for the virus release and now they are going to make money supplying $.20 masks for $5 / mask.

    China’s next step in the plan is to buy bankrupt businesses.

    This where did the virus come from question, where was the first case, and why did the Chinese lie, cover-up, and so on.

    https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/04/21/chinese-state-media-in-arabic-floats-theory-u-s-army-made-coronavirus/

    The woman – dubbed “Ms. V” – went on to claim that she has since discovered “new facts” indicating that “patient zero” in China “has come from outside China.”
    During the episode of China View, broadcast by China Global Television Network (CGTN) Arabic TV, “Ms. V” tells her audience that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) shutting down Fort Detrick, an alleged U.S. Army biological research lab, suggests that the Chinese virus came from the United States.

    Moreover, the Chinese Foreign Ministry has also pushed the CCP’s coronavirus conspiracy theory by openly suggesting that the virus was a weapon devised by the U.S. military and brought to Wuhan.

    https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/03/16/china-accuses-u-s-army-lab-of-manufacturing-the-coronavirus/

    https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/03/12/chinese-foreign-ministry-might-u-s-army-who-brought-epidemic-wuhan/

    • hmmm, Ebola virus is thought to have come from bats in Africa. Were the Chinese there as well?

  24. “That fool American president needs to take the hit for the mess he helped created”

    @ Mark S

    This sentence and associated post smells very much like it has been created by an officially sponsored contributor. You are the fool. You cannot even write correct English. The term “fool American president” is straight out of typical communist propaganda. One does not read any further to know your true colour and official objective.

    What is even more foolish is that you demonstrate what is fundamentally good about the US and bad about China. You take advantage of the freedom to criticise the leader of the US on social media knowing that there cannot be serious repercussions due to a fundamental freedom that does not exist in China.

    I feel sorry for you people. You are shackled. I hope that one day you will experience true freedom. I am not a great fan of the American system but admire their legally protected freedom of speech and transparency that exposes their warts and all. Their system will endure. China’s wont.

    Michael Carter ( My real name – what is yours?)

      • What does the CPC fear most?
        Nuclear attack?
        Global humiliation?
        Financial collapse?

        None of these

        What they fear most are there own people. I have been to central China and could feel it: pent up frustration. Remove economic growth and th promised prosperity then what next? The rattling of military sabers to try to define a common enemy, that what. It’s happening right now. Dangerous stuff IMO.

        With that I rest my case

        M

        • The biggest lie of all is that the CPC is communist.

          It is a military-backed dictatorship that relies on intelligence to increasingly monitor and control its own citizens in the name of ideology which is in reality all about unbridled power which it is determined to export to other sovereign nations.

          Good luck with that

  25. ‘Another one that it may make it;

    “Imagine Dragons – Natural” (you tube video)

    As natural as it could be.

    natural

  26. At this point I don’t care where the virus came from. I am 72. All three of my children have been hit hard economically in one way or another by the lockdown. It is time to let us old folks take their chances rather than screwing the young and active. Time to get rid of the ‘Protect the most vulnerable’ at the expense of years of economic problems. As compared to the ’58 or ’67 flu’s, this one does not seem to be lethal for the young and healthy.

    • You are partly correct. This is not the fault of the Chinese people. The Chinese government is 100% to blame for taking advantage of this disaster at the expense of the rest of the world.

  27. SARS-CoV-2 is different from the flu:

    “Cardiovascular complications are rapidly emerging as a key threat in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in addition to respiratory disease. The mechanisms underlying the disproportionate effect of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection on patients with cardiovascular comorbidities, however, remain incompletely understood.
    SARS-CoV-2 infects the host using the angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in several organs, including the lung, heart, kidney, and intestine. ACE2 receptors are also expressed by endothelial cells.
    Whether vascular derangements in COVID-19 are due to endothelial cell involvement by the virus is currently unknown. Intriguingly, SARS-CoV-2 can directly infect engineered human blood vessel organoids in vitro. Here we demonstrate endothelial cell involvement across vascular beds of different organs in a series of patients with COVID-19”

    https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)30937-5

    • Dude sometimes you can be so disingenuous it’s really pathetic. Is it any wonder people have trouble trusting you?

      And I’m not talking about the typical morons around here who just rail on “Mosher” because you’re “Mosher.” I’m talking about people who’ve been able to respect your opinions in the past because, well, YOU COULD. At least there was a relative certainty that yeah, you might be wrong about something, but it was an honest mistake.

      First, National Review is pretty much a TDS rag these days, so we need to drill down into anything they have to say in order to be sure we can trust it when it has to do with Trump policy.

      Your cited article offers as evidence a chart published by “The New Atlantis.” About 1/2 way down the page for the chart* is the disclaimer as to how their chart can’t be trusted for either flu or C-19 data. You’re supposed to be a data guy. So I ponder, “Hmm, why is Steve citing this obvious bovine excrement for public consumption in his own name?” So I look some more.

      Well, “The New Atlantis” purports itself to be a “Journal of Technology and Society,” which in turn is published by the “Ethics and Public Policy Center.” The EPPC claims itself a Christian organization, defending Christian values in the world. What the heck??? Steven Mosher’s pushing articles from NR based upon evidence from the Jesus freaks at EPPC??? Are we in Moray’s 4th dimension?

      So I look around some more. A (small) sample of their “work” includes:

      “Biden-Cuomo Is the Way to Beat Trump” – https://tinyurl.com/y7ob4jtv

      “Trump’s Words Are Poison” – https://tinyurl.com/y887bals

      “The Trump Presidency Is Over” – https://tinyurl.com/ybhjty2e

      And thus we have the irrational, TDS infected, EPPC, pushing yet more TDS garbage from National Review, cited by another apparent TDS sufferer, Steven Mosher.

      My what dirty little bedfellows irrational hatred makes, no?

      *https://tinyurl.com/y72vvfmh

  28. When the “war” against COVID-19 is over, I hope there will be war crimes trials to hold to account those who caused unnecessary deaths

    The incompetent monster-child declared himself a “wartime President,” and indeed he is. And thus when the war is over, it will be time for war crimes trials. Here is an initial useful accounting; Dr. Redfield of the CDC and Dr. Hahn of the FDA will have a lot to answer for, even if their incompetence doesn’t rise to the level of a capital crime. Trump, himself, is a different matter: his failure to lead has killed and will kill thousands of people (and see also). (Lets not forget that Trump is also exacting political revenge by denying help to citizens of states whose governors he doesn’t like.) Someone who should probably join Trump on the gallows–only after a thorough and fair trial, of course–is the absurd Jared Kushner.

    This article is correct that the pandemic has revealed the profound dysfunction of the American polity at the national level (and at some state levels). The blame for that has to be laid at the door of Reagan’s repeal of the “fairness doctrine” which prevented propaganda outlets like Rush Limbaugh and Fox News from occupying the public airwaves. So a suitable war crimes trial should alsto put Roger Ailes on the docket posthumously, and try Sean Hannity et al. for crimes against humanity (and decency).

    UPDATE: It looks like the evidence is in, Hannity is heading for the gallows too!

    https://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2020/04/when-the-war-against-covid-19-is-over-i-hope-there-will-be-war-crime-trials-to-hold-to-account-those.html

    • “Lets not forget that Trump is also exacting political revenge by denying help to citizens of states whose governors he doesn’t like.”

      These states that actively and illegally undermined his policies, defeated immigration control, the control that is most needed in time of epidemics, and attacked civil rights of many, notably the civil rights of Donald Trump himself?

      I don’t think they deserve ANY support whatsoever.

    • You know. A crisis arises. Trump handles it badly, as always. He becomes defensive, lies, attacks the press. His acolytes and followers, who identify with him, feel personally attacked because of criticism of him, and follow his lead as to how to respond. Sensible people make fun of them, and the cycle continues.

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