Flattening The Curve

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I’ve been following the many changes in the IHME coronavirus model used by our very own most incompetent Dr. Fauci. (In passing, let me note that he’s been wrong about most everything from the start—from first saying it was not a problem, to predicting 200,000 deaths in the US (based on an earlier version of this model), to advising people to NOT wear masks, to opposing chloroquine. But I digress …)

The IHME model is here, and it’s well worth a look, although not worth too much trust—it’s been wrong too many times. To their credit they’ve put the results online here.

Another problem with it is that the presentation of the data is so good. It’s good enough that it’s hard not to take it as fact.

The model historically has predicted numbers that were too high. The latest incarnation of the model is predicting 81,766 COVID-19 deaths in the US by August 4, 2020. That’s down from 93,000 in the previous incarnation of the model. Are they finally right? History makes one cautious. There’s a discussion of the upgrade of the model here.

However, despite their past high estimates in absolute numbers, I figured that their estimates of the shapes of the responses is likely pretty close to realistic. So I thought I’d take a look at the projected daily deaths, to see what I could learn. In particular, I wanted to investigate this idea of “flattening the curve”.

What does “flattening the curve” mean? It is based on the hope that our interventions will slow the progress of the disease. By doing so, we won’t get as many deaths on any given day. And this means less strain on a city or a country’s medical system.

Be clear, however, that this is just a delaying tactic. Flattening the curve does not reduce the total number of cases or deaths. It just spreads out the same amount over a longer time period. Valuable indeed, critical at times, but keep in mind that these delaying interventions do not reduce the reach of the infection. Unless your health system is so overloaded that people are needlessly dying, the final numbers stay the same.

Now, the model lists three kind of interventions on a state-by-state basis. The interventions are:

• Stay at home order

Educational facilities closed

Non-essential services closed

I figured I could take a look to see if imposing those restrictions would make a difference to how flat the curve is. Of course, to do that, I had to figure out a variable that would represent the “flatness” of the curve. After some experimentation, I settled on using the highest daily death number as a percentage of the total number of deaths. For convenience I’ve called this number the “peak factor”, and the larger it is, the more peaked the curve is.

So to start with, here are a couple of states with very different peak factors from two ends of the scale. The graph shows the shapes of the curves, but not the actual sizes, of the daily death counts in the two states.

Figure 1. The shapes of the curves of daily deaths for West Virginia and Missouri. Both have been scaled to a mean of 0 and a standard deviation of 1, and then aligned to zero. Both datasets slightly smoothed (Gaussian filter, FWHM = 3 days). For purposes of illustration of curve flattening, I’ve adjusted them so the total number of deaths are the same in both states.

Note that the area outside the blue line but still under the yellow line (bottom center) is equal to the amount of the peak above the yellow line. It’s the same total amount, just spread out over time.

Now, that looks like interventions are working … except for one detail. West Virginia imposed all three restrictions. Missouri only imposed two. And for those two, Missouri imposed them both later than did West Virginia.

So that pair certainly doesn’t say much for the effectiveness of our interventions. Why are they so different? Unknown, but presumably because of things including the density and distribution of the population.

So that’s what the effect of the interventions should look like. It should take a peaked curve and transform them, stretch them out over a longer time with a lower peak. And more interventions should flatten the peak even more.

Intrigued by all of this, I returned to the IHME model. One interesting discovery that I made was that for all of the states, the number of deaths before the peak is very close to the number of deaths after the peak. This was true for states with a high peak factor as well as a low peak factor, across the board. This should allow us a rough-and-ready rule of thumb to estimate the total deaths once the peak is passed. 

Note that this rule of thumb is true no matter when the lockdowns are removed—all that will do is change the date of the deaths, not the total number calculated by the rule of thumb.

For example, Italy. Let me go look it up at Worldometer … OK, the peak was on March 28th, at about 10,000 deaths. That would make me think that total deaths in Italy will be on the order of 20,000 deaths. 

To check that prediction, I just now looked for the first time at the IHME model country page for Italy. Until this latest update, they didn’t cover other countries, just the US. OK, the IHME model says 20,300 deaths projected for Italy. So my rule of thumb appears to work quite well. Let me test it with Spain. First, Worldometer. It says there had been 9,400 deaths by the time of the peak daily death in Spain. Rule of thumb says that the total should be on the order of 18,800 deaths. Turns out when I got there that the IHME model page for Spain says 19,200 deaths. So it seems that the rule of thumb works well, at least according to the model. Whether it works in the real world remains to be seen …

Next I looked at the peak factor for all the states versus the number of interventions, to see if the interventions tended to lower the peaks and flatten the curve. Figure 3 shows that result.

Figure 2. Scatterplot, “peak factor” showing how peaked the curve is, versus the number of interventions imposed on the populace. Red “whisker” lines show one sigma uncertainty of the median. Since there are only two states with zero intervention, no uncertainty calculation is possible.

As you can see, the total number of interventions makes no statistically significant difference in the flattening of the curve. 

So I thought, well, let me look at the dates of each of the three types of interventions—stay at home, close schools, close businesses. Maybe there is relationship there. First, here are peak factors of the various states versus the timing of their “stay-at-home” order. Over time, the intervention should lead to lower peak factors, with early adopters getting greater benefit. Here’s that result.

Figure 3. Scatterplot, peak factors of the states versus the date on which they imposed the “stay-at-home” order. The yellow line is a “robust” trend, one which downweights any outliers. The trend is not statistically significant.

What that says is the opposite of what we’d expect—in this case, the later the intervention happened, the flatter the curve. Should be the other way around, earlier interventions should lead to more effect on the outcome.

Next I looked at the closing of non-essential services. Here’s that result.

Figure 4. Scatterplot, peak factor versus the date of closing of all inessential services. Again, the yellow line is a “robust” trend, one which downweights any outliers. This time the trend is statistically significant (p-value = .028)

However, despite the statistical significance of the trend line, it’s going the wrong way. The early adopters should be less peaked by now, not more peaked. Finally, here is the school closure data.

Figure 5. Scatterplot, peak factor versus the date of closing of all schools. Trend is not statistically significant.

It’s sloped the wrong way again, but I saw that graph and I thought “Hang on … that one data point is influencing all the rest”. So removed that point, which happened to be Iowa, and took another look.

Figure 6. Scatterplot, peak factor versus the date of closing of all schools. Trend is not statistically significant. 

At least this one is going slightly the right way, although the trend is still not significant. That lack of a clear result may be a result of the bluntness of the instrument and the small size of the data sample.

Despite the lack of significance, I suspect that of all of the actions taken in the Western world to slow the spread of this illness, closing the schools could be the only one to have an actual measurable effect. Don’t get me wrong, any intervention has some effect however small. But I mean a real significant effect.

I say closing schools could have this effect because schools, particularly grade schools, could have been designed to be a very effective way to spread an infection. Consider. You not only have the kids packed in close together indoors for five days out of the week. Worse, it’s the same kids every day, so they have multiple chances to infect each other. Worse yet, they all go back home at the end of the day to infect the rest of the family, or to bring in new fun illnesses for “show-and-tell-time” at school to start the process over.

And finally, as all kids do, they wrestle and kick and cough and grab each other and sneeze and spit on the ground and trade clothing and eat bits of each others’ lunches … it’s a perfect petri dish.

So if you want to slow an infection, closing the schools at least makes logical sense.

On the other hand, stay-at-home orders where people still go out for groceries as well as to either work in “essential” jobs or purchase other essentials (and non-), that seems like a joke to me. The virus is sneaky. The Fed-Ex driver just dropped off a couple of packages here … there are still loads of people out and about. It’s all around. It can live on surfaces. It is transported by coughing, sneezing, or even talking. Yes, if you do a full-on surveillance state detecting, tracking, and contact tracing like South Korea has done, that will work. But you need to give your phone GPS data to the government to make that work. There’s no way Americans, or most westerners in general, would do that.

The western style style of quarantine leaks virus like a “closed” Senate hearing leaks classified information, and then the virus is transported everywhere. There’s really no attempt being made to track contacts. I suspect it would be futile at this point.

Overall? I see little evidence that the various measures adopted by the western nations have had much effect. And with the exception of closing schools, I would not expect them to do so given the laxness of the lockdown and the vague nature of “essential business”. I’ve mentioned before, here in Sonoma Country California, the local cannabis retailer is considered an essential business … strange but absolutely true.

Finally, I want to talk about that most mundane of things, the humble cost/benefit analysis. Draw a vertical line down a sheet of paper, label one side “Costs” and the other “Benefits”. Write them down on the appropriate side, add them up. We’ve all done some variation of that, even if just mentally.

Unfortunately, it seems Dr. Fauci doesn’t do cost/benefit analyses. It seems he only looks at or cares about the benefits. He called millions of people being thrown out of work “unfortunate” … unfortunate? It is a huge cost that he doesn’t want to think about. He’s not going to lose his job. His friends won’t lose their jobs. Meanwhile, at the same time that he’s saying “unfortunate”, the mental health hotlines and the suicide hotlines are ringing off the wall. People are going off the rails. Domestic violence calls are through the roof, and understandably. Forcibly take the jobs away from a wife and a husband, tell them that they are under house arrest, that’s stress enough … and meanwhile there’s no money coming in, rent and electricity bills are piling up, can’t put gas in the car, kids bouncing off the walls from being cooped up … of course domestic violence and suicides and mental health problems are off the charts.

Which brings me to California where I live. If California were a country it would have the fifth-largest economy in the world. Fifth. Just California. The annual GDP (Gross Domestic Product, the total value of everything we produce) of California in round numbers is three trillion per year. We have no hard figures, but it would not surprise me if 2020 was only seventy percent of normal, not from the virus, but from the government pulling the wheels off of the economy. That’s a loss of Nine. Hundred. Billion. Dollars. That’s bigger than the GDP of most countries, up in smoke.

And that’s not counting the cost of partially offseting the governmental destruction. First, the government pulled the wheels off of the economy. And now, they’re pumping out taxpayers’ dollars like water to try to ease the pain that they’ve just inflicted. That $1,200 check people are talking about? That a cost, not a benefit as the chatterati would have us believe. It comes out of our pockets. And there are all kinds of other associated expenses, lost wages, the list goes on and on.

So overall, here in California alone we’ve lost pushing a trillion dollars of value, with millions out of work, tens of thousands of businesses shuttered forever, discord and dismay abounding … and for what? For what?

Well, it’s for the following. Here is the IHME model projection for coronavirus deaths in the fifth largest economy in the world …

Figure 7. Projected coronavirus deaths, California.

That’s it? That’s all? Eighteen hundred dead? That’s less than California murders. It’s less than California gun deaths. It’s a third of our drug overdose deaths, for heaven’s sake, and guess what?

The trillion dollars we lost from the government shutting down the California economy?

It won’t save one of those 1,783 people. Not one.

It will just delay their deaths by a week or two.

A trillion in losses are on the cost side of the cost/benefit analysis. And on the benefits side, all we have is a two-week delay in eighteen hundred unavoidable deaths? That’s it? That’s all that a trillion dollars buys you these days?

Ah, you say, but more people might die if the medical system is overwhelmed. Are there enough beds and ventilators?

Well, glad you asked. Here are the figures, again from the IHME model. Unfortunately, as with the number of deaths, all the previous incarnations of the model have overestimated the need for hospital resources … but with that caveat, here are their California numbers.

No bed shortage. No ICU bed shortage. And we just shipped some ventilators to New York. We should peak in a week.

And while we’re waiting for the peak, we’ve just spent about a trillion dollars to delay 1,783 deaths by a few weeks. Not to save anyone’s life, I say again. Just to delay a couple thousand deaths by a couple weeks … look, it still wouldn’t be worth a trillion dollars even if we could actually save that many lives and not just delay their deaths. If it helps your conscience you could give the family of each person who could have been saved a million dollars, that’s only 0.2% of your trillion dollars, and the economy could keep humming along.

But it’s simply not worth totally wrecking the lives of 30 million Californians just to save eighteen hundred lives. That’s madness, that’s a terrible deal.

I have opposed this from the start. I don’t do a one-sided “benefits” analysis like Dr. Fauci does. I do a COST/benefit analysis, and we’ve just looked at it. Here’s the conclusion of that analysis:

Even if your hospital system is going to get overloaded, even if more people are going to die, put the trillion dollars into making the medical system the strongest and most resilient imaginable. Spend it on field hospitals and stocks of disposables, buy ventilators, buy hospitals, buy medical schools, buy beds and gowns, that’s what will save lives. I don’t care, shut down the grade schools if you have to although with a solid medical system you likely won’t have to … but whatever you do …

DO NOT SHUT DOWN THE ECONOMY, STUPID!! The costs are far, far too great.

Just the human costs are beyond measure. Lives ripped apart, suicides, endless worry and concern, running out of money to feed the kids, there’s no end to it, lying in bed at night wondering when they’ll let you out of jail. 

And that’s all before we even get to the economic costs and the ripple-effect costs and the loss of productive capacity and the canceled contracts and the lawyers’ fees and finally, the start-up capital required, and the businesses that will have gone elsewhere, and the need to rehire or replace people and overhaul idled machinery, etc. etc. once this monumental stupidity is over.

So this is a plea for all you women and men at the top, the ones deciding when to call off the madness, I implore you—get up out of your offices, look around you, go to a small town and talk to some unemployed businesswoman whose local enterprise is now belly-up, understand what the loss of that business means to that small town, and GET AMERICA WORKING AGAIN TODAY! Not tomorrow. Today. Every day is endless pain and worry for far too many.

Here’s how crazy this lockdown is. You folks who decide on this for California? You are costing us trillions of dollars, and you are literally killing people through increased suicide and depression and domestic violence, and it’s all in the name of delaying a couple of thousand deaths. Not preventing the deaths, you understand. Delaying the deaths.

Killing people to delay death, that sounds like a charmingly Aztec plan, it comes complete with real human sacrifices …

Sheesh … it’s not rocket science. Further delay at this point won’t help. End the American lockdown today, leave the schools closed, let’s get back to business.

And yes, of course I’d include all the usual actions and recommendations in addition to leaving the schools closed—the at-risk population, who are those with underlying conditions, particularly the elderly, should avoid crowds. And of course continue to follow the usual precautions—wash your hands; wear a mask at normal functions and not, as in your past, just at bank robberies; only skype or facetime with pangolins, no hootchie cootchie IRL; refrain from touching your face; sanitize hard surfaces; y’all know the drill by now … the reality is we’ll all be exposed to to coronavirus sooner or later. And like the Spanish Flu and Hong Kong Flu and a host of diseases before and after them, after a couple of years the once-novel coronavirus will no longer be novel. It will simply become part of the background of diseases inhabiting our world like the Swine flu and the Bird Flu, all dressed disreputably and hanging out on every street corner in every town waiting for someone to mug …

My regards to all, and my profound thanks to the medical troops who are on the front lines of this war. The wave is about to break in the US, dawn is approaching, it will be over in a month. And hopefully, long before then. these insane regulations will go into the trash, we can stop paying trillions to delay a few deaths a few weeks, and we can get America up and working again.

w.

A REQUEST: If you know someone who makes the decisions on one of the lockdowns, or if you know somebody who knows one or more of the women and men making that decision, please send them a link to this document and ask them to read it and pass it up the chain so that we can all get back to work sooner rather than later.

To facilitate this, I’ve put a copy of this post for anyone to download as a Word document here, and as a downloadable PDF document here. Send a copy to someone who might make a difference.

MY USUAL REQUEST: When you comment, please quote the exact words that you are referring to. Only in that way can we be clear about what you are discussing.

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ren
April 8, 2020 2:26 pm

State GOP Chairman Andrew Hitt downplayed the health concerns, noting that Wisconsin residents are still going to the grocery store, the liquor store and even boating stores classified as essential businesses.

“This isn’t New York City,” he said.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/pandemic-politics-wisconsin-primary-moving-forward/2363253/

Status Number (%) of People as of 8.04.2020
Negative Test Result 30,115
Positive Test Result 2,756
Hospitalizations 790 (29%)
Deaths 99
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/pandemic-politics-wisconsin-primary-moving-forward/2363253/
Will we see the effect in a few days?

Just Jenn
Reply to  ren
April 9, 2020 6:15 am

I live in WI and yes we got all kinds of flack for keeping our democracy running and the polls open yesterday. Despite a large portion of absentee ballots being cast.

I said on another post that this has become about piety and shame into conformity. I for one am very glad that our state legislature went to our supreme court to keep the polls open, if it were up to the Governor, he’d be happy to keep everyone exactly where they are forever. Well that’s not the way it works. But dang if expressing your right to vote hasn’t brought on the finger pointing and damning of other states…”for shame that you did not give up your freedoms in the face of this pandemic!” And in that shade throwing forget that our state had mostly absentee ballots anyway.

Thank you State Legislature for fighting to continue our democracy. For recognizing that while our 2 urban areas have been barely hit with this the vast majority of our state lives in the woods and hasn’t even seen a case.

Maggy Wassilieff
April 8, 2020 2:29 pm

NZ has been in total lockdown now for two weeks.
We have a few clusters of infection spread the country. All seem to be related to the tourists and returning NZers who arrived in the country between mid-February and mid-March.

Our largest cluster – 84 people infected (and still growing) is centred around a school.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323637

Editor
April 8, 2020 2:29 pm

Willis – Many thanks for a very interesting analysis. Some of your questions do have possible answers explanations:
1. Your estimates based on the 50-50 hypothesis (50% before peak, 50% after) match the model quite well. It’s possible that the model directly or indirectly uses the same hypothesis.
2. You report that, unexpectedly, later intervention is associated with a flatter curve. Maybe a higher rate of infection leads to more intervention to try to stem it. ie, maybe cause and effect are the wrong way round in the expectations.
3. I think the jury is still out on closing schools. Your arguments are compelling, but as you point out your statistical analysis barely supports it – but as you say maybe there’s not enough good data. Maybe, just maybe, the explanation is that children just don”t catch and spread the virus as effectively as adults.

I heartily endorse your call to look at the whole cost/benefit, and not to make the cure worse than the disease. I’m also mindful of the fact that clamping down too hard early on will merely set the scene for a second wave (like the Spanish flu) – unless there is an effective cure or vaccine by then.

One possible advantage of curve-flattening that you don’t mention is that it gives time to develop and distribute a cure or vaccine. My own thought is that we haven’t been too successful at that with the ordinary flu, so we shoouldn’t get over-optimistic about this one.

Australia has implemented strong social distancing measures, but seems to have managed to keep a lot of the economy going, with the obvious exceptions of sport and anything travel- or tourism-related.

I’m off to the local cafe now, to get a coffee – got to help local business keep going …..

Neville
Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 8, 2020 5:01 pm

Mike I’m an Aussie in my seventies and have tried to do all the correct things, like regularly washing hands, using dettol to kill 99.9% of bugs, don’t drive except for essentials, exercise by walking for 25 minutes day etc.
What more would you recommend and are you in a much younger age group than me? I will also have the flu shot soon because I don’t want to be fighting more than one of these bastards at any one time.
The malaria drugs seem to be an obvious choice to me if we test positive to CV-19.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 8, 2020 6:19 pm

Australia has implemented strong social distancing measures, but seems to have managed to keep a lot of the economy going, with the obvious exceptions of sport and anything travel- or tourism-related.

No, we’ve shut down almost everything, and stopped movements between states for most people. A million or so unemployed (at least 10% of the workforce) already, many more to come.

Eliza
April 8, 2020 2:30 pm

Fauci is causing incredible damage to the United States and must be removed immediately I agree completely with Willis these people in the CDC haven/t got a clue about how coronaviruses operate. People need to be naturally immunized as the Swedes and Germans are doing and Fauci is preventing this. We shall see my 2 cents worth bet Sweden will come out of this economically intact whereas USA will be destroyed economically. Poor old Trump has been led along by the CDC swamp left over from Clinton era this idiot Fauci who has no comprehesion of viral immunity. By doing social distancing Fauci is prolonging the survival of the virus and should be held accountable for the deaths he is causing.

John Tillman
Reply to  Eliza
April 8, 2020 3:28 pm

But he won’t be held accountable. On the contrary, the legacy media will hail him as a hero genius restrained from full glory by the subhuman narcissist Trump.

When in fact, Fauci has been wrong about everything, remarkably, usually in both directions. Like Kerry, he was wrong before he was wrong.

Norman
Reply to  Eliza
April 8, 2020 3:46 pm

Eliza

You are acting the part of a professional in Epidemiology. So is your opinion based upon any actual knowledge of infectious diseases? Are you such and expert you know what course of action is best.

Can you present any credentials that you have any clue of what you are saying? Your opinions are strong but are they worth anything.

DKR
April 8, 2020 2:39 pm

The chi-com totalitarian killers must pay. They have been murdering their own people for 75 years and are now spreading death around the globe thanks to our feckless governments.

Robber
April 8, 2020 2:42 pm

” the reality is we’ll all be exposed to to coronavirus sooner or later.”
Did we all get exposed to SARS, or Ebola? The reality is that this virus gets passed from person to person – hence the early exponential growth, many from those who travelled.
Reduce the contacts that enable person to person spread, and most people will never come in contact with this virus, so overall less deaths.

Reply to  Robber
April 8, 2020 3:44 pm

A very thought provoking comment. Is COVID-19 destined to infect everyone? That may have been the thinking of the US response in January. WHO’s “no person-to-person” spread was definitely contributing to that view. It seems also to be the strategy of S. Korea: test-track-contain.

It seems that CDC/Fauci have thrown in the towel and nothing short of a vaccine (12-18 months away) will stop the spread. Certainly anyone talking of a “second wave” is in this camp.

April 8, 2020 2:49 pm

Willis posts: Flattening the curve does not reduce the total number of cases or deaths.
..
This is false.

If we stretch the curve out far enough, we can and will use the time gained to develop/perfect a vaccine which will give us herd immunity. We might even discover a therapy in the time gained to save lives.
..
The reason why your statement is false is because you implicitly assume that no vaccine, or therapy will be developed.

gbaikie
Reply to  Henry Pool
April 8, 2020 5:53 pm

–Willis posts: Flattening the curve does not reduce the total number of cases or deaths.
..
This is false. —

If focusing modeling {and you know can’t model all factors} it is true enough.
Any efforts involved with flattening the curve have other factors related to deaths caused by sum total action.
But in simple terms flattening curve, will reduce other deaths. And flattening curve will cause other deaths {very hard to model, but quite obvious to economists}.

April 8, 2020 2:50 pm

@Willis – in the main, I agree with your analysis.

However, there is one thing that I truly wish you would stop doing, and that is conflating the actions of the STATE governments with those of the NATIONAL government.

Nearly* all of the shutdown pain is being administered by the STATE governments. There is no NATIONAL shutdown being enforced.

*Explanation of “nearly.” The FEDERAL government has caused economic pain in a very few areas:

1) The shutdown of much international travel. That action definitely harmed airlines and other travel industries, no argument possible there.

2) Ordering FEDERAL workers to stay at home, which would have severely affected business activity in areas where FEDERAL workers are thick on the ground (although those areas are closed anyway by local action, so really not all that much, except the few “essential” businesses that they are no longer patronizing).

3) The individual credits – extremely unwise economically. No argument. Shoring up the unemployment system, a tax holiday, etc., would have been better, of the bad options actually subject to FEDERAL action.

4) Loans to small business. Okay, inflationary – money coming into those businesses when they are NOT producing. But the long-term damage to the economy from those businesses going belly up (and not in a “capitalistic culling event”) is difficult to calculate. Whether the avoided damage is greater than the cost, or the cost is greater than the avoided damage, can be debated endlessly (and we are unlikely to ever have a reliable analysis of which way it goes, even from 20/20 hindsight ten years from now).

Net – at least 90% of the rolling economic disaster is being caused by STATE governments, not the FEDERAL. Of that percentage, the major part is centered in the two economic “engines” – California and the East Coast megalopolis. One of the reasons that those areas are so hot on getting cash into the hands of illegals; they constitute a very large part of their GDP.

John Tillman
Reply to  Writing Observer
April 8, 2020 4:44 pm

OTOH, the shutdown is hampering the census.

Reply to  John Tillman
April 8, 2020 8:48 pm

Bad for those States whose ratio of illegal/undomiciled to legal/domiciled residents has increased. Good for those States experiencing the opposite.

Bad for those with a burning need to know how many toilets are in your household. Good for those who still believe that the Fourth Amendment means what it plainly says.

Eliza
April 8, 2020 2:53 pm

RE lord Mockton who I had a high regard for this man before but now he appears to be more no more than a pompous British royalist git who now has become an expert in viral diseases. BTW I am. I now i have serious doubts about his 1.5C warming data analysis it could be minus 2 or 1C or plus five for christ sake this man is a joke. I dont think WUWT should be posting anything except comments from this person anymore

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Eliza
April 8, 2020 6:46 pm

now he appears to be more no more than a pompous British royalist git who now has become an expert in viral diseases. BTW I am.

You’re saying you are a pompous British royalist git?

pat
April 8, 2020 3:02 pm

8 Apr: Fox News: Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as ‘COVID-19’ deaths, regardless of cause
by Louis Casiano
The federal government is classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone’s life.
Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations doing the opposite…
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause

saw a weekly US pneumonia deaths graph somewhere yesterday and the numbers for recent weeks showed a massive decline from previous years. are non-covid pneumonia deaths being counted as COVID?
convenient we have a pneumonia virus that particularly attacks the elderly!

23 Mar: UK Telegraph: Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?
The country’s high death toll is due to an ageing population, overstretched health system and the way fatalities are reported
By Sarah Newey
According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health, the country’s mortality rate is far higher due to demographics – the nation has the second oldest population worldwide – and the manner in which hospitals record deaths. ..
Prof Ricciardi: “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”…

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.”…
“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,” he says. ..
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/

Ricciardi’s comments were not picked up by MSM, and did not cause MSM to question Italy’s covid death count.

Tom in Florida
April 8, 2020 3:02 pm

I think the actual words are:
“straightening the curves, flattening the hills”
But then maybe I’m just a good ol’ boy.

Ethan Brand
April 8, 2020 3:03 pm

Hi Willis

Thank you again for a thoughtful missive.

I will be frank, however, that the most valuable “take away” (for me) from your discussion is not the details of your position, but in the differences between your discussion and the other interesting missives of Christopher Monckton, David Middleton, Dr Roy Spencer, Eric Worrall…and others that I have missed. Add Dr Fauci and Dr Birx. Certainly not an all inclusive list by any means…just some of the most obvious people I have paid some attention to.

I will admit right up front that I do not “believe” there is any clear “right” answer(s) to dealing with Covid-19 disease. It is a chaotic mix of poorly understood biology, combined with intrinsically chaotic politics, with a large measure of ego thrown in. In other words, a typical human reaction to any problem dealing with disease.

If I were in charge, my first action would be to lock the above mentioned folks in a room and LISTEN to them for a couple days. A moderator might be nice to minimize bloodshed (:)). I would be focusing on what the differences are between their various positions. From this I think one could draw useful information about what we don’t know. This then would lead to a slightly better ability to understand what we do know. From there, I think one could begin to formulate an incrementally “better” way forward.

I harbor no illusions of some binary solution here. The most honest assessment is: It’s complicated, and I really have very little idea of what is going one, and therefore I have very little real ability to manage a path forward. This is the intrinsic status of humanity, but I do think we make incremental progress. There are, after all, nearly 8 billion of us, and we clearly live longer than we used to. Some measure of progress (to some…)

Regards,
Ethan Brand

John Tillman
Reply to  Ethan Brand
April 8, 2020 4:07 pm

Thank the ChiCom tyranny for lack of relevant information upon which to make sound decisions.

Ethan Brand
Reply to  Ethan Brand
April 9, 2020 5:47 am

Add Rud Istvan and Steven Mosher and Willis Eschenbach (in case not clear…)to the list.

Scarface
April 8, 2020 3:06 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg

Hi Willis,

This man tells it like it is. You will probably agree 100% with him.

Best regards,
Scarface

Juan Slayton
April 8, 2020 3:15 pm

When the kids finally go back to school, it will be interesting to see what effect the doctrine of “social distancing” has on classroom management. For many years, the education gurus have been pushing the virtues of collaborative learning. Walk into any grade school classroom, and you will probably find the desks are arranged in clusters that put students literally elbow to elbow and often face to face with maybe two or three feet separation. When I started teaching (over 30 years ago now) it didn’t take me long to figure out that the closer together the kids are sitting, the more distracting social interactions you have to deal with. So I spaced out the desks as far apart as was practical. (And I discovered it wasn’t so difficult to assemble groups for cooperative learning when that was appropriate.)

I have wished for years that some researcher with nothing better to do would test the hypothesis that undesirable social interactions vary inversely with the square of the distance between the desks. So also might the probability of microbes passing from one student to another, although this factor would doubtless be swamped by the gazillion other opportunities for cooperative infecting.

Chazz
April 8, 2020 3:23 pm

The IHME model requires another term, that being the number of deaths of people made homeless by the shutdown and later die on the street clutching a small cardboard sign.

Loren Wilson
April 8, 2020 3:45 pm

“But you need to give your phone GPS data to the government to make that work. There’s no way Americans, or most westerners in general, would do that.” I suspect that our government already has access to anyone’s location if their phone is functional. After all, they have all the metadata for every cellphone call.

chemman
April 8, 2020 4:07 pm

I found this quote by C.S. Lewis that addresses this subject:
“I dread specialists in power because they are specialists speaking outside their special subjects. Let scientists tell us about sciences. But government involves questions about the good for man, and justice, and what things are worth having at what price; and on these a scientific training gives a man’s opinion no added value.”

John Tillman
Reply to  chemman
April 8, 2020 4:56 pm

Right on! That’s why there are appointed advisors and elected decision makers.

Michael D Smith
April 8, 2020 4:11 pm

“Be clear, however, that this is just a delaying tactic. Flattening the curve does not reduce the total number of cases or deaths. It just spreads out the same amount over a longer time period. Valuable indeed, critical at times, but keep in mind that these delaying interventions do not reduce the reach of the infection. Unless your health system is so overloaded that people are needlessly dying, the final numbers stay the same.”

Willis, this is not necessarily true. When R0 starts out as an early estimate, that is for a free-running epidemic. That doesn’t happen in humans because once the word is out, R changes because behavior changes. Rt (or Re as I call it) is the effective rate after people understand the situation and decide they don’t want it the disease. That can be any number of actions, but the type of action or behavior doesn’t matter. What matters is suppression of transmission. If R decreases, you can estimate the herd immunity needed by using 1-1/Rt. So when R goes from 3 to 2, herd immunity goes from 66% needing infection, to 50%. Even then, an epidemic can be snuffed out quickly and the population will collapse with fast action. As long as you use strong suppression for longer than a few generations of the disease, it’s over. So there is absolutely no reason for the areas under the curves to be the same. They are the same because you standardized them, so they are, by definition, 1.

Here are some results from my model, with zero suppression, light suppression, and heavy suppression. The key is to act fast and hard, and you can stop something like this dead in its tracks. The area under the curves is DEFINITELY not equal.

https://naturalclimate.wordpress.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-model-what-level-of-suppression-is-enough/

The real world is more complicated because there are multiple seeds, certain populations that don’t obey the rules (nursing homes), kids playing with neighbors who then take the virus back home, endlessly for generation after generation, etc.

Reply to  Michael D Smith
April 9, 2020 5:56 am

Good work.

It’s always nice to see someone actually do the math rather than just shoot from the hip.

TinyCO2
April 8, 2020 4:26 pm

This is not an easy equation to reduce to numbers. The case fatality rate is still not obvious. It will vary for numerous reasons. Age is the obvious one but obesity seems to be a prevalent underlying condition that makes this worse. Western countries have a lot of overweight old people. Were this virus allowed to spread freely, the thing would be over in a matter of weeks. The main wave of the 1918 flu pandemic in New York ramped up to its peak in just one month and was over in another. At the peak it killed 6 people in every hundred it infected in the city. The cfr of covid19 seems to be about 1% but it could be higher or lower. Nobody is prepared to gamble on it being lower.

As I understand it, when something that novel hits a population, it can infect a very high proportion of the population, in a short space of time. You cannot avoid it. Herd immunity is a very high figure – up to 95%. However if you slow the infection rate down, the people who have already caught it and got better are a bit like a fire brake. Herd immunity is lower – maybe as low as 60% (give or take airline travel or mutations). Your chance of crossing paths with someone infected drops.

The second issue is health care. First the essential workers need to be protected (not just the medical staff). If they all go sick at once, everything fails. No country was ready for a pandemic. There wasn’t the PPE, the ventilators or the drugs. Medical staff are at very high risk of death. The higher the dose of virus you are infected, the more likely you are to be overwhelmed by the disease. So along with all the old fat people, you can wave your health care workers away. Assuming they stick around at virus ground zero. The viral load issue would have also made a short, sharp pandemic more likely to up the cfr in the general population. Very bad on mass transit or schools.

The drugs and the vents are important to give people a chance but to also make the deaths of those who succumb more bearable. Read some of the accounts of those who watch others die and then decide that large numbers of people gasping their last at home with no help available is a humane thing to do. Care homes have been abandoned by staff because they can’t cope with the dying and fear for their own lives. In a short, sharp pandemic, most of us would be in the same boat if we had a bad reaction. The more time the scientists get the more likely there will be a cure. Even recovered patients can be used to help the sick. If everyone gets sick together, nobody has the antibodies to help anyone else, even if the scientists could extract it.

There are many more arguments but I’ll give you one more. Say Trump set the virus free. Sent everyone back to work and let this rip through the population. Almost everyone would know and maybe see someone close to them die in agony. How long would it be before a Republican got back into the Whitehouse?

Toto
Reply to  TinyCO2
April 8, 2020 7:14 pm

“The drugs and the vents are important to give people a chance but to also make the deaths of those who succumb more bearable.”

Cuomo said only 20% of patients who are put on a ventilator will survive. Fail. Did the ventilator prolog their misery or did it end it? More bearable? I doubt it.

The lockdown and the ventilators are not working. Do we do more of the same or do we try something different? Most countries are still doubling cases every week or so. That’s better but it’s still an enormous growth rate.

TinyCO2
Reply to  Toto
April 9, 2020 1:02 am

A lot of those on vents aren’t the very elderly, they’re the middle aged or younger. I’m sure that the 20% aren’t ungrateful to be alive. The very elderly are dying in care homes and/or not deemed suitable for invasive life support. And what about the drugs? Those drugs used to ‘make people comfortable’, the euphemism for knocking them out or numbing them at the end are in short supply. Even oxygen, also helping those who don’t end up on vents eventually would run out. If the health care system collapsed for a while, most victims wouldn’t even go to hospital. There wouldn’t even be access to simple painkillers or antbiotics. A lot of people are calculating the cfr based on the cruise ship Diamond Princess. The passengers got some of the best medical care in the World and went into lockdown, so that a lot of passengers didn’t get infected. Eventually they were allowed off the ship, as if their pandemic was over.

Lockdown isn’t working? It was never going to stop this immediately, especially as we didn’t start soon enough, nor are we as strict as China was. People are infectious without showing symptoms, some of them for weeks. However, the number of severe infections are not wiping out our hospitals or devastating our essential services. It would be a lot worse if lockdown wasn’t in place.

But hey, I would be ok if the US or even the UK tried cancelling lockdown. My vulnerable people are either already gone or can protect themselves from this disease anyway. Go for it.

E Parent
April 8, 2020 4:56 pm
Steve O
April 8, 2020 5:04 pm

Wealth saves lives. Wealth pays for better food, better hospital care, better living conditions, more education. More research. Safer cars. Everything. How many lives would be saved if Californians were a trillion dollars richer? That’s how many lives are now lost.

April 8, 2020 5:29 pm

This makes the first time I have seen agreement with what I have been derided for i.e. that ‘delaying death’ is a more accurate expression than ‘saving life’.

This looks like a very useful study demonstrating the futility of continuing the shutdown.

Future deaths from covid-19 will be greatly reduced by introduction of fast detection and effective treatment. Hydroxychloroquine has shown compelling promise, is starting to be used and is being subjected to rigorous assessment in spite of harassment and fake news by the Trump Haters. I wonder how many thousands of deaths have occurred as a consequence of knee-jerk anti-Trumpism. A misleading signal might result from delaying until it is too late. After starting on a ventilator is too late. The earlier that hydroxychloroquine is used, the better the outcome. There is strong evidence that it might even prevent onset of the disease. Delaying the use of hydroxychloroquine because it is unproven to treat covid-19 is an appalling lack of common sense. Nothing is proven to treat covid-19.

David Middleton provides an informative report of this and very recent developments here: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/07/wildly-exaggerated-chicom-19-models-are-driving-policy-decisions/#comment-2959397

Greg
Reply to  Dan Pangburn
April 8, 2020 6:14 pm

‘delaying death’ is a more accurate expression than ‘saving life’.

Indeed, this a typical misrepresentation you’ll find in the Guardian when (mis)reporting the dangers of PM2.5 etc. They will say that a “new study” finds that fine particles cost upto 200,000 lives a year ( or some such figure ) when what it actually found that there was statistically 50,000 to 200,000 whose lives were shortened by an average of 6 days.

Lies, damned lies and journalism.

I’d rather have my individual autonomous transport now and all the time that will same me and pay for it when I’m bed-ridden and incontinent and don’t know what day of the week it is.

Chazz
Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
April 9, 2020 8:58 am

They weren’t getting enough that way so now CDC does not even require test results, merely if the decedent could have been exposed.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
April 9, 2020 4:37 pm

Even if everyone who died of any cause at all were tested for CV-19 (which won’t actually happen for many deaths, such as automobile accident, heart attack, stroke, suicide, murder, drowning, etc.), the “coincidental positives” would inflate the number of CV-19 deaths by a minuscule percentage (less than 2%).

What’s more, it is unquestionably a fact that many more people are dying of CV-19 without having a CV-19 diagnosis, than are mistakenly attributed to CV-19 when dying of other causes. If someone dies at home after a brief illness, there is generally no requirement that he be tested for CV-19. In the U.S., a family could presumably request that he be tested, but it would cost them money that they might not want to spend. (That might vary w/ jurisdiction.)

RobR
April 8, 2020 5:36 pm

Willis,

“death number as a percentage of the total number of deaths. For convenience I’ve called this number the “peak factor”,”

Comparing the outcomes of two states using a self-selected single factor affecting Ro and morbidity hardly qualifies as reliable analysis.

Sure, peak death may
approximate total deaths, but there a slew of factors ultimately contributing to mortality, viz; penetration at time of modeling, relative health of infected population, availability of therapeutic medicines, and most importantly, efficacy at isolating the infected.

Attempting to model Morbidity with limited data is analogous to climate models only inputting sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 and expecting a degree of precision.

It’s garbage in and garbage out my friend. You cannot pretend to know what may have been, sans efforts (as variable as they may be) to limit contact.

With regard to Dr. Fauci’s position on Chloroquine; I saw the original brief where he mentioned initial results were promising but not yet conclusive.
This is entirely compatible with scientific convention. I’m a big fan of Inductive logic and the numbers have become increasingly convincing. The press were foolish to bet against such inductive evidence and Fauchi was correct to take a cautious position.

Reply to  Willis Eschenbach
April 8, 2020 8:56 pm

A friend just notified me. New revision. Projected US deaths?

60,415 …

I was going to ask if I was missing something, because that’s the number I saw on the page you referenced. So they went from 93,000 to 81,000, and now to 60,415…all in a matter of days.

And on March 29th, Anthony Fauci estimated 100,000 to 200,000 U.S. COVID-19 deaths (though he didn’t give an end time). It’s a good thing he clarified that he did not want to be “held to that” estimate.