Bloomberg: China Accused of Faking Coronavirus Numbers

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Abstarct virus strain model of MERS-Cov or middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus and Novel coronavirus 2019-nCoV with text on blue background. Virus Pandemic Protection Concept

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

According to Bloomberg, a secret intelligence briefing to the White House claimed that China concealed and is continuing to conceal the true magnitude of the Coronavirus outbreak.

China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak, U.S. Intelligence Says

Nick Wadhams and Jennifer Jacobs
2 April 2020, 01:15 GMT+10 Updated on 

China has concealed the extent of the coronavirus outbreak in its country, under-reporting both total cases and deaths it’s suffered from the disease, the U.S. intelligence community concluded in a classified report to the White House, according to three U.S. officials.

The officials asked not to be identified because the report is secret, and they declined to detail its contents. But the thrust, they said, is that China’s public reporting on cases and deaths is intentionally incomplete. Two of the officials said the report concludes that China’s numbers are fake.

The report was received by the White House last week, one of the officials said.

“The claim that the United States has more coronavirus deaths than China is false,” Senator Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican, said in a statement after Bloomberg News published its report. “Without commenting on any classified information, this much is painfully obvious: The Chinese Communist Party has lied, is lying, and will continue to lie about coronavirus to protect the regime.”

Read more:

Bloomberg also reports Chinese Coronavirus is starting to strike more young people than expected.

Many New York Coronavirus Patients Are Young, Surprising Doctors

Older patients remain most at risk, but hospitals are being hit with more and more younger cases

By Michelle Fay Cortez and Olivia Carville
2 April 2020, 01:55 GMT+10 Updated on 

Younger adults in New York City are being hospitalized with Covid-19 infections at surprisingly high rates, said doctors and other health-care workers treating them, undermining earlier assumptions about who’s most at risk from the new coronavirus. 

New York has more confirmed cases than anywhere else in the U.S., and about 1 in 5 hospitalizations are occurring in people under age 44, according to data released by the city’s health department. Globally, moderate-to-severe cases have occurred in 10% to 15% of adults under age 50, according to the World Health Organization.

On Friday at Manhattan’s Mount Sinai Morningside Hospital, a previously healthy 32-year-old male patient turned to doctor Kaedrea Jackson and asked: “Am I going to die?”

Read more:

What a surprise; Communists lying about the scale of a problem.

On the positive side, there is an unprecedented effort to find a way of treating this nightmare Chinese disease. Doctors were quick to try out Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine, after dusting off old reports of their effectiveness against SARS and MERS, close relatives of Covid-19. Other approaches, from antibody therapy to the search for a vaccine are being pursued.

We shall beat this thing, if people with the disease can be helped to avoid passing it on. But a lot of lives would have been spared if China had been a little more honest when it counted.

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zurab abayev
April 4, 2020 10:10 am

too many unknown variables
marijuana use?
so many variables more..

Reply to  zurab abayev
April 4, 2020 11:37 am

Faking coronavirus numbers would be a kittens cough if it happens that they also faking the virus origin too.

Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 12:23 pm

An old Chinese ‘bat lady’ from Wuhan wet market apparently (if you do believe it) achieved what Karl Marks, Vladimir Ilich, Joseph Vissarionovich, and Mao tse Tung could have not even dreamed off, i.e. putting capitalist economy on its knees in one single swoop. There are heaps of skeletons rattling with a grotesque laughter in some kind of communist heaven.
“An old Chinese lady from Wuhan….” anyone could do a limerick?

Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 12:55 pm

I think she’s vanished…

Reply to  beng135
April 4, 2020 3:02 pm

I think she never existed !

According to Bloomberg, a secret intelligence briefing to the White House claimed that…

Is there still such a thing as a secret intelligence briefing to the White House? The intel community usually leaks to CNN before they brief the president. ( Just to give them time to type it up .)

if it happens that they also faking the virus origin too.

That seems to be of little doubt now.

I thought Trump was just being provocative with his “Chinese flu” comments but he was probably better informed of its origin than we are.

Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 1:54 pm

I fear terrorists may try to create virus by putting bats and other animals together and some “test humans”. They hope for human to get sick them send the person to other countries to infect population.

Reply to  Stevek
April 4, 2020 3:04 pm

LOL, if they may be daft enough to believe the official BS about where this came from, they could give it a try.

Reply to  Stevek
April 4, 2020 10:12 pm

What happened to the idea of doing massive terrorism with technetium-99m/molybdenum-99 stolen from medical facilities or transporters (a risk aggravated by post-brexit EU-UK transport issues)?

According to the Financial Times, and its registered readers who comment under the article, it could cause long term damages, also Molybdenum-99 procurement is such a vulnerability for UK because of the very short live of Tc-99m (articles about the topic constantly switch from Mo-99 to Tc-99m and back). The mind of these people is clear and bright as AOC’s.

Javert Chip
Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 1:54 pm


There was an old lady from Wuhan
Who said, while putting her lipstick on
“I’m dressing in red…
To pay the butcher bill for the dead…
In crisp new Chinese yuan”

Reply to  Javert Chip
April 4, 2020 3:06 pm

I like the “There was an old lady from Wuhan” meme but it still needs a little work 😡

Javert Chip
Reply to  Javert Chip
April 4, 2020 6:01 pm


Don’t push it; there are only about 6 things that even remotely rhyme with Wuhan.

There was an old lady from Wuhan
Who bet she killed those she sneezed on
She said she could spray
Many thousands a day
Now that’s a bet she can’t lose on

Reply to  Javert Chip
April 5, 2020 6:41 am

Better start — complete as desired:
There was an old lady from Wuhan-duck.

Javert Chip
Reply to  Javert Chip
April 5, 2020 1:58 pm

Wonder if the old lady from Wuhan-Duck ever met the man from Nantucket…or the hermit named Dave

Javert Chip
Reply to  Javert Chip
April 5, 2020 2:07 pm


There was an old lady from Wuhan-Duck
Whose health was running out of luck
She read the MSM for clues
But got only fake news
Now her body’s in a refrigerated truck

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 2:16 pm

In a previous life she sold mats.
Now this Wuhan old lady sells bats
With a virus inside
So she coughed till she cried:
“Next lifetime I think I’ll try cats.”

Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 7:59 pm

The present economy was already on its knees thanks to endless Quantitative Easing by most Central Banks = money black magic through printing more endlessly. Why even pay tax is they can print the same amount with a few keystrokes? Just a continuation from 2008.

Covid19 popped up and makes an excellent smoke screen.

Andy in Epsom
Reply to  Vuk
April 5, 2020 4:35 am

An old chinese lady with bats
Boiled them for ages in vats
She said this will be easy
To ship out to DC
And kill the capitalist fatcats

Hope you like it Vuk

J Mac
Reply to  Vuk
April 5, 2020 3:37 pm

There was a coughing old lady from Wuhan
who infected everyone she blew on.
Her aerosol lip service, they say
Spread in an exponentially lethal way,
As China lied.. and the epidemic grew on!

Matthew Schilling
April 4, 2020 10:14 am

Just in case people aren’t aware of it, is a great resource, with a set of nearly 50 videos on the Wuhan virus. I’ve found the videos to be uniformly short and packed with great info. (Caveat: I discovered them with Update 35, regarding quinine, etc. and haven’t watched every single video since).
The info on fever, and hydrotherapy was excellent – with a great nugget about Dr. Kellog, from the early 20th century, thrown in as a bonus.

Reply to  Matthew Schilling
April 4, 2020 11:05 am

Matthew, can you provide a link, please?

Reply to  KcTaz
April 4, 2020 4:43 pm

Bill T
Reply to  KcTaz
April 5, 2020 5:36 am

You Tube just search for Medcram.

April 4, 2020 10:17 am

Asking China to provide truthful answers is like asking Climate Alarmists to justify their Models!

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  SZ939
April 4, 2020 10:59 am

From the post “The officials asked not to be identified because the report is secret, and they declined to detail its contents.”

I think the secret is out based on the data. CV-19 deaths reported as of 12:30 CT today:

World: 62,444
EU: 35,510
US: 7,896
China: 3,326

Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
April 4, 2020 11:42 am

Today’s UK mortality has overtaken China’s by 1,000! the update is here

Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 3:15 pm

Oh please stop calling that mortality rate. That term is defined but cannot be determined on the fly from daily data.

China is pretty much though the epidemic and you can start to estimate mortality. That is NOT comparable to the ratio you are calculating. Apple and coconuts.

As I have explained elsewhere when you divide two exponential growths the result is exponential too. This is NOT the same thing as the asymptotic value you get in the post exponential phase as the epidemic fades out.

The lie about the numbers is not the lie which matters.

Reply to  Greg
April 4, 2020 5:21 pm

So what about the Hunan province lockdown that just started? Funny thing, it didn’t just pop up in Google after China and new, needed to add lockdown. Google is not helping the China propaganda machine. Oh no, not Google.

Andy in Epsom
Reply to  Greg
April 5, 2020 4:38 am

Surely the only way to calculate the curent mortality rate would be to add together the number of deaths to the number of people recovered. This would give the total current completed cases and then divide the deaths by that number. not include the current infections that have not reached a conclusion.

Reply to  Farmer Ch E retired
April 4, 2020 10:28 pm

The Chinese mobile phone company has reported 21 million less subscribers over the course of the Covid-19 epidemic. Nuff said.

Andy in Epsom
Reply to  Hivemind
April 5, 2020 4:40 am

I read a similar report which said 22 Million but the are both in the same ball park.

April 4, 2020 10:21 am

All the affected countries in the world need to send the Red China Communist Party the bill for all the damages that COVID-19 has caused the world. This can easily be set up initially by just cancelling all of the dept that China has amassed from the rest of the world with their unfair trading and predatory lending practises. Just start with cancelling all the monies owed to China and the USA can easily do this by just cancelling the T-Bills that China has purchased for USA debt. That could be considered a ‘downpayment’ on rectifying this horrendous scourge that Red China and the Communist Party have wrought on the world.

If China thinks they are ever going to be re-paid the debts they think sovereign countries owe them, they should think twice. The sooner China is confronted and completely defeated internationally through economic sanctions and cancellation of debt, the safer off the world will be from this giant fascist beast that is destroying the global economy. The Red China Communist Party is a VIRUS that must be rooted out and made extinct before they destroy the global economy with these actual lethal virus’ that many seem to originate in China because of their ignorance and/or malfeasance.

R Taylor
Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 10:50 am

Sounds like there might be some risks with that plan. What type of ruling party do you imagine would replace the present one?

John Tillman
Reply to  R Taylor
April 4, 2020 11:32 am

How about just moving in the Republic of China’s government in the interim?

Reply to  R Taylor
April 4, 2020 11:56 am

Good question! Obviously, the Republic of China capital is located in Taipei, Taiwan. We need to immediately recognize that the legitimate Government of all China is Taiwan, and that system of government is to be applied to all of China, under the leadership of the original Republic Of China which had to flee mainland China when Chairman Mao Zedong marched into Peking and the People’s Republic of China, was illegitimately proclaimed on 1 October 1949. Trump actually got it right the first day in office when he phoned The Republic of China in Taipei, Taiwan. Remember that? The current government of Taiwan is still the legitimate gov’t of all of China. General Secretary Xi Jinping of the CPC is the illegitimate leader of communist mainland China.

The Republic of China (ROC) was a sovereign state based in mainland China between 1912 and 1949, prior to its government’s relocation to the island of Taiwan. It was established on 1 January 1912 after the Xinhai Revolution, which overthrew the Qing dynasty, the last imperial dynasty of China. The Republic of China in Taipei, Taiwan is still the legitimate Government of all China. All the rest of the world has to do is to recognize that fact and turn its back on the illegal and illegitimate Communist Party of China (CPC). Only 13 sovereign states still recognize Taiwan which includes the Vatican. If the USA and the WEST immediately were to do so, the people of mainland China would instantly realize that there is hope on the horizon, and the rest of the world has their back. This isn’t about the good people of China, but about the evil fascist regime headed by the new emperor/dictator for life General Secretary Xi Jinping. This will be the beginning of the end for him and the CPC if the world was to do so. It might be messy, but then revolutions generally are messy affairs. But there already is a legitimate ruling party Gov’t of all China and it is located in Taipei, Taiwan. Getting rid of the Fascist/Communist Party of China would be one of the greatest things we could achieve for the world going forward.

Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 3:18 pm

Not that I disagree with your legal logic, but how many nuclear weapons does Taipei own?

Reply to  yirgach
April 4, 2020 8:16 pm

Parts of the original Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty between are still in place between the United States of America and the Republic of China securing the island of Taiwan from invasion by the People’s Republic of China in the aftermath of the Chinese Civil War on Mainland China. It was a big deal between 1955 when it was signed until 1979, that the USA would come to the assistance of Taiwan if attacked by Red China.

This is why China doesn’t dare mess with Taiwan still, because it would be messing with the USA which has about 10 times the military might of Red China. Not that it has to come to nuclear war between the two, but the USA does have the 7th Fleet stationed in Japan/Korea and the South China Sea. China would be absolutely decimated in any military conflict presently, but not perhaps in 10 years if we don’t arrest the communist fascists in Peking. We should do that by quitting shovelling them so much money and don’t do business with others who do business with them. Bring them to their knees until they join the civilized world and start acting like it.

Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 11:23 am

Were I in an intelligence agency I would be embarrassed to submit this report. This is simply a China’s fault narrative to cover the fact that the US was fantastically slow in response. With a subtext of, we can tap everyone’s phone, spy on a presidential candidate; we have a lavish budget but if you need information then rely on China’s public numbers which we will not believe anyway.

check out and:

Reply to  taz1999
April 4, 2020 12:55 pm

That is such a powerful clip. Even yesterday he was denying he said this stuff. Calls any questions on his downplaying of situation “nasty”. The Trump supporters can’t write it off as fake (although I am picking they will try) because here are the words coming out of his mouth.

Reply to  Scissor
April 5, 2020 11:32 am

My opinion is the situation in the US; It didn’t have to be this way (Chris Marteson); does not imply the democrats/leftist would be any better and I expect way worse. We’d probably still be debating how the CV was somehow transgenderphobic.

If I considered myself a logical lefty, I’d be very concerned that my “managers not leaders” were basing their policies on never trump with no other logic. Stunning hypocrisy (here I agree with Hannity, so it really is the apocalypse) , when trump closed flights from China he was a xenophobe, now he didn’t react quick enough; Which I believe because I get the exponential growth and what happens on the right side of the graph.

Russ R.
Reply to  taz1999
April 4, 2020 2:38 pm

He believed what China was telling us. They told us they had it under control, and the WHO agreed. Are you expecting him to personally go over there and verify? What exactly do you think he should have done differently. We did not elect a virologist so we have to take the word of those that are experts. They also believed China and the WHO.
He was under impeachment for a phone call that was leaked, and still didn’t violate any laws.
You should be grateful that he placed the travel ban on, when he did.
Everyone knows Hillary would have left the door wide open for this virus, and don’t even mention Biden.
What is it that you are trying to show. That he cannot predict the future?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Russ R.
April 4, 2020 5:48 pm

It should be noted that in mid-January the World Health Organization (WHO) was claiming that it could not be transmitted from person to person. Based on that, it was not really a threat. Then, WHO announced it was a pandemic on January 30th, and Trump blocked travel from China the NEXT day! For taking that quick action, he was called a “xenophobe” and worse. Would the Left have us neuter our economy every time some novel disease shows up and kills a few people? We knew very little about SARS CoV-2 in the beginning, and what we thought we knew was based on lies from the Chinese! The Left is unreasonable in their expectations about what Trump should have done.

Reply to  taz1999
April 4, 2020 2:54 pm

That boy’s is called flattening the panic curve. Much of Trump’s genius is instinctual, creating situations in which likely outcomes lead to a winning position, even in dire circumstances.

Reply to  Scissor
April 4, 2020 3:41 pm

“Much of Trump’s genius is instinctual, creating situations in which likely outcomes lead to a winning position, even in dire circumstances.”
Well his “genius” has the US leading the world by a mile in cases. I’m picking history will record a large part of that was fuelled his ignorance which propelled his large mouth to misinform the public and so give them a false sense of security. All at a critical time when other informed world leaders were warning their public and so protecting them.

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 5:02 pm

I love the way trolls can’t do even basic statistics.
On a per capita basis, the US is way back in the pack, much better than most of your beloved socialist states.

Russ R.
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 5:03 pm

More testing means more cases found. That is a good thing, because you can get better data to make better decisions. He didn’t start this, and in the end will be judged by deaths and economic damage. And what actions were taken to minimize both.
China has destroyed their credibility. They only thing they have left is the useful idiots that parrot the party line. They have a responsibility for this that will not fade, any time soon. I would distance myself from the stench of their behavior. No amount of easy money can wash off the smell of death.

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 6:12 pm

“Well his “genius” has the US leading the world by a mile in cases.”

And might I add, we are lagging the world in reported fatalities (12:30 pm CT today):

World: 62,444
EU: 39,510
US: 7,896

William Astley
Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 11:41 am

I agree. This covid problem stinks. This feels like an existential attack our country and our way of life.

This is something we need to talk about, to determine responsibility and restitution.

It is odd China did not allow the US CDC (Centers for Disease Control) access to the Wuhan site to determine how dangerous the virus is and the source of the virus.

The CDC has the technology if they had access to the site they could have definitively answered those questions.

What is China hiding? This appear to be the most expensive and deadly man made problem in history.

There must be a logically explanation as to why the covid virus suddenly appeared in Wuhan.

There must be some reason why China was pushing the ridiculous theory the US military developed a war crime weapon and then used in on China.

The US military as the source for covid ‘theory’ is impossible t because the US has checks and balances that stops the development of war crime weapons. Also the US has checks and a balances which makes it impossible for the US to attack a country without congressional notification.

China knows it is impossible for a US President to attack China with a man made virus. The virus could not be make and it could not delivered.

This video by someone of lived 10 years in China and can read Chinese ‘I found the source of covid’ is one possible scenario.

This person claims:

The information that is publicly available supports the assertion that covid was man made by accident by Wuhan researchers which explains why the Wuhan researcher that was known as the bat lady has disappeared.

As we all know the covid virus was formed by a combination of a evolved bat virus and a flu virus.

In a large country like the US or China, institutions become so large that they have the power and money of small country. Departments like the US CIA are particularly dangerous as they do wet work and use high technology in cold wars. China of course has the equivalent of the US CIA without the checks and balances.

What is happening now in China, is the same, as happened in the old Soviet Union. Except there are now power struggles with high tech weapons.

Reply to  William Astley
April 4, 2020 12:51 pm

Meanwhile China is sending 1000 incubators to New York. What terrible people they are. And if you want conspiracy theories, it is a fact that the first case of the Spanish flu(terrible inappropriate name), was found at a military base in Kansas. Why don’t we start calling it the US flu?

My point…All this blaming is a waste of time. Lets get on a fight this damn thing

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 1:55 pm

Sometimes arsonists are firemen.

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 2:02 pm

Oh, yeah, China has delivered millions of defective masks and test kits all over the world. Who should take the blame for that?

William Astley
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 2:22 pm

What does that prove? Honestly, we are not children. It proves China understands how to play the game to their advantage.

Why the heck did China not let the CDC have access to the Wuhan site? The reason is the CDC would have found out the truth.

This is the most expensive and deadly man made event in the history of the world.

They have kidnapped three Canadian citizens to bully Canada, to accept their 5G system.

They have militarized the South ‘China’ sea and taken over the air space in that region. That is sort of an act of war. Using military weapons to bully your neighbors.

… and how did the virus magically get on a US aircraft carrier, a few days ago?

The problem is we have appeased China.

and lastly we are fighting the virus with all we have. Almost like we are fighting a war.

Reply to  William Astley
April 4, 2020 3:56 pm

They have kidnapped three Canadian citizens to bully Canada, to accept their 5G system.

No, that was because Canada “kidnapped” the CEO of Hauwei. Get real.

… and how did the virus magically get on a US aircraft carrier, a few days ago?

Didn’t you hear, they also have weaponised specially trained albatros which are carriers of the virus. They are all over the South China Sea. If any US vessels enter they quiet fly over and crap on the deck. All it takes in one crew member touch the crap and then touch his face and the whole crew go down and the commanding officer has to jump the chain of command and write directly to editor of the LA Times.

Either that or it was a crew member who brought it on board before he developed symptoms.

Reply to  William Astley
April 5, 2020 5:42 am


Either that or it was a crew member who brought it on board before he developed symptoms.

Bit far-fetched, isn’t it?

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 3:18 pm

The origin for the Spanish Flu is still thought to be from China. When it hit the US it had not yet become a deadly virus. It was named the Spanish Flu because there were estimates that around 8 million Spaniards died from it in the month of May of 1918.

Reply to  goldminor
April 4, 2020 4:05 pm

goldminor Source please that says it started in China? Truth is we can’t be sure but the first reported case was in the US. And it was called the Spanish flu because although others were hit hard, they were the only ones who admitted it. Germany and England were in propaganda mode.

Reply to  goldminor
April 4, 2020 7:26 pm
Reply to  goldminor
April 14, 2020 1:58 pm

@ Simon …here is a good video on 1918. It is stated in the video that soldiers from Asia may have been the cause of the epidemic as they were serving in the war in 1916/17. I also read that the UK imported several hundred thousand Chinese workers into the UK to help with the war effort.

What is know for certain is that the flu did spread in army bases in the US starting from a base in Kansas. What is not known is the complete origin of how that occurred.

Reply to  goldminor
April 14, 2020 1:58 pm
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 4:21 pm

I have a small piece of land just outside Wuhan that you might be interested in

Reply to  mike
April 4, 2020 4:57 pm

Bet it’s cheap.

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 4:56 pm

Simon, end of Jan early Feb at least two shipments of medical supplies were flown out of Australia by private jets. One of the shipments was 80 tonnes and these shipments were organised by Chinese officials.

They are putting on a show of helping nations cope with this crisis. They sent 800,000 faulty masks to Australia just last week.

We have restrictions on quantities of different products in supermarkets here at the moment, one of them is baby formula. The limit is two tins per customer. The limit has been on this particular product for a few years now because Chinese people were buying trolleys full of baby formula and sending it back to China. As you could imagine this was causing local mothers quite some angst, and sometimes trips to several stores.

The Chinese have in recent years bought a baby formula company and 77% of our dairy industry is now foreign owned, the bulk of that by the Chinese.

They are raiding stores of baby formula once again. A team of four Chinese people went into a large suburban supermarket two days ago at 9pm and filled up a trolley each with boxes of baby formula, they parked the trolleys just outside the checkout and went back for more. They cleaned out the entire stock. There were no security guards and the staff felt intimidated. A customer took photos and sent them to the press. Toilet paper is one thing but baby formula?

There is nothing altruistic about people from mainland China. They are literally taking Australia by stealth. Yes Simon, I get that there are good Chinese people too, I know several personally and attended tomb sweeping in Guangdong and a family feast afterwards.

But as a ‘regime’ they care nothing for anyone outside of the Peoples Republic of China and if they want something they will take it. Right now they are simply trying to save face, but they will never admit they were wrong.

We are fighting this, but faulty masks is insulting!

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 5:04 pm

They are sending incubators? What, has the US had a rash of premature babies?

As to not wasting time with blame, that’s funny coming from you.

Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2020 10:11 am

Getting ready for the Baby Boom in 9 months. Remember how births spiked after the ice storms and power outages 9 months later? I bet this time there will be a huge lot of new babies. And unfortunately and sadly, probably a lot of abortions. America needs its own domestic baby boom to keep up our own natural replacement rate, instead of relying on immigration for growth. Especially the kind of immigration the Democrats want.

Donna K. Becker
Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2020 11:21 am

I think by “incubator,” he meant that the masks sent here by China were impregnated with the virus.

Does anyone remember the melamine cat food scandal back in 2007? To make it appear that cat food products had sufficiently adequate amounts of protein, melamine was added, which had the effect of artificially inflating the protein values. Many cats died as a result. Subsequently, there was a similar issue with baby formula produced there.

Sweet Old Bob
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 6:46 pm

“Meanwhile China is sending 1000 incubators to New York”
What do they expect to hatch ?

Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
April 5, 2020 6:06 pm

The Chinese are small people… I thin we know I meant respirators.

mike the morlock
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 9:53 pm

Simon April 4, 2020 at 12:51 pm
The time line is wrong for that theory. No one knows for sure but you’re not in Kansas any more. Try British field Hospitals summer of 1917
USA declared War April 2 1917. Now when did those troops in Kansas get sick and who had come from Europe to help train them and brought the flu.

Your not very good at this. The link below is interesting


Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 3:51 pm

April 4, 2020 at 10:21 am

Almost the whole world has tested positive for insanity… apart from China and Japan and maybe one or two other countries…

That is a fact… unraveling there in the open.


Reply to  whiten
April 4, 2020 9:09 pm

No body interested at all about this claim of this allover the globe insanity.

Please just poke and I may just try to prove it by “live” experiment.
I am willing a try.

The experiment is quite easy, really… 🙂


Reply to  whiten
April 5, 2020 8:34 am

Ok whiten, I will bite. You could be part right that much of the world is of its rocker, especially the radically left as we see with the climate extortion going on in the WEST. And who is more radically left than Red China? Certainly not Japan, who could be considered a bit more right than left, as they enjoy and cherish individual liberty and freedom.

That doesn’t exist in Red China. It is just too bad that President Xi is an extreme Maoist, and not a Confucianist. China would be back on the world stage big time and their new Belt and Road Initiative truly would be a new glorious Silk Road if he had been a pure Confucianist instead of a closet fascist. It is only a mater of time now before his own enemies inside Red China stab him in the back. I await your reply.

Reply to  Earthling2
April 5, 2020 1:58 pm

April 5, 2020 at 8:34 am

Thank you Earthling2

My understanding is that China had and has no interest what so ever in events like this one which is happening globally.
Whatever politics of China as a nation, at least they tried to stop this madness.
You see the vilifying game against China now is only a diversion from the real criminals.

If China did not do what it did, due to the pressure from WHO, China now will be the perfect villain to blame.
With calls for economical sanctions followed by a removal of China from the permanent
membership in the UN security cancel, something like Russia being removed from G8.

“Hug a Chinese”
was an attempt by China to cool things down and stop the domino effect
of this madness, as they had identified the next very hot spot, and tried to cool the Italian mentality and engage with Italian government.
But WHO made sure that China would not succeede in stopping that domino effect.
Whatever you or any one else think about China politics, China is not the villain in this case.

Ok all this said, the experiment proposed is not this.

The experiment is simple.
A simple question and the proposition of the simple answer.

The subject happens to be the COVID-19 “penetrating” refrigerators.

In the case of HIV a lot of blood stock in the blood banks when tested for HIV was found to be infected and then “dumped in rivers”,
in some case like France, literally dumped in the river.

Now in the case of COVID-19, infection from the virus is no problem, as it does not infect the blood, but still the blood from the infected has antibodies.
Blood transfusion with such antibodies to people with immune systems that don’t know
the antibody, is kinda of increased risk, unneccesary and dangerous, especially if the doctors do not know.
For most cases, blood transfusion means people in critical health condition.
People in such condition, which have not gained immunity yet towards COVID-19,
can be subjected to increased risk and increased danger from blood with antibodies.

Now the question;

Has there being any penetration test ordered or issued in the case of stocks of blood in the “blood banks”?

The simple answer is either:
no or
maybe (don’t know)

In my case the answer at this point happens to be:
don’t know

Am not sure what Dr Fauci’s answer could be, or about all other Dr. Faucis around the world advising their own respective governments how to hammer their own economy and the global economy too.

Not sure also about WHO too… if it ever advised any government or any health institution or anyone or any other “body” whatsoever in such subject!

The question and it’s answer is the experiment.

Thank you.


Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 6:00 pm

You nailed it!

Cancel American debt.

And of course liberals will cry “racism!”.

And cancel all research and student visas for 5 years.

April 4, 2020 10:25 am

“Younger adults in New York City are being hospitalized with Covid-19 infections at surprisingly high rates,”

“New York has more confirmed cases than anywhere else in the U.S., and about 1 in 5 hospitalizations are occurring in people under age 44, according to data released by the city’s health department.”
That is not much of a surprise unless you had your head under a rock for the last couple months as Italy has gone through this and has numbers comparable.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  astonerii
April 4, 2020 10:32 am

In other words, 80% of the hospitalized patients are older than 44.

Reply to  astonerii
April 4, 2020 10:56 am

NYC living in a residential high rise with elevators has to be akin to a cruise ship

Michael S. Kelly
April 4, 2020 3:20 pm

Mike <=== You hit it right on the head. Talk radio in the US has been abuzz with wonderment about how bad things are in New York, when California was a much bigger portal for coronavirus entry. The key difference is population density.

In New York, you live in vertical cruise ships, share elevators many times daily, ride crowded mass transit, and even walking down the street frequently brush other people. I lived in Southern California for 28 years, and for the last 11, never even saw my nearest neighbor (whose house was 40 feet from mine). Even apartment living effectively compartmentalized people. There was no mass transit to speak of, and still isn't. It's a big, sprawling place, with very few high rise dwellings and office buildings, and a climate not hospitable to coronavirus. The frequent, gusty winds alone must frequently sweep it away.

It's not a big mystery to me.

Reply to  Michael S. Kelly
April 4, 2020 4:11 pm

“The key difference is population density.”
South Korea seem to have avoided being hit hard and they have one of the most populated cities in the world. (Trump – after saying he knew South Korea better than anybody – said it is 38 million, but it is 10 million)

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 5:08 pm

And Obama said there are 57 states. Presidents say things.

Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 5:10 pm

S. Korea implemented a pretty draconian lock down. As to why NYC’s mayor and NY’s governor didn’t do this, I don’t know. Ask them.

PS: I love the way totalitarians actually believe that the president should be a dictator.

Javert Chip
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 6:40 pm


Actually it depends on how you define the Soul metropolitan area.

Population of the city of Soul is 9.8M;
Population of the Soul metropolitan area is “around 25M” IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE THE METROPOLITAN AREA.

Go ahead, Google it, I’ll sit here and wait for your rebuttal…

Farmer Ch E retired
Reply to  Simon
April 4, 2020 7:40 pm

“The key difference is population density.”
Another key difference is the China travel ban started February 2 and mostly helped reduce entry of CV-19 to the West coast (i.e. CA & WA). In the mean time, CV-19 was showing up from the EU and other points across the Atlantic. The travel ban to select European Countries began midnight March 14 and the ban from the UK followed a few days later. The late travel ban from Europe was less helpful for those on the East coast (NYC, Newark, Boston, etc.). The first case in my state of TN was within 10 miles of me when a man returned from a meeting in Boston. As of today, our state has 43 fatalities.

Reply to  Michael S. Kelly
April 4, 2020 4:27 pm

Very familiar with Southern Cal. went there on business half a dozen times a year in the 1980’s. The high density public housing in NYC is even more troubling. It’s very unsanitary based on nightly news videos

April 4, 2020 10:31 am

CDC had this to say mid last month…
“Among 508 (12%) patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged ≥85 years, start 36% were aged 65–84 years, 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, and 20% were aged 20–44 years. Less than 1% of hospitalizations were among persons aged ≤19 years (Figure 2). The percentage of persons hospitalized increased with age, from 2%–3% among persons aged start ≤19 years, to ≥31% among adults aged ≥85 years. (Table).”

Note the 20-44 age group. This is not news!

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  astonerii
April 4, 2020 2:29 pm

I think these numbers only have meaning when the cohort as a % of the population is shown alongside. It may be that 9% were above 85 years, but there might be only 10% over 85 in the total population, which means the infection rate approximately matches their occurrence in the total cohort.

In a country in Africa the under-16’s might be 50% and the over 85’s perhaps 1%. If the same proportions were to prevail it would have a very different meaning and implication.

April 4, 2020 10:36 am

…water is wet

film at 11

Reply to  Latitude
April 4, 2020 4:02 pm

love it !

Robert of Texas
April 4, 2020 10:49 am

Anyone that can read and interpret statistics knew there was a problem with China’s numbers once you had enough data from other countries. Either China already had a large number of people who were immune (a possibility that an antibody test would reveal) or China is outright lying to conceal the magnitude of the problem. If China did have a large number of people who were immune, then there was a previous outbreak, and given how infectious this current version is it seems very unlikely it would not have started a pandemic – so again it seems more likely China is lying.

We need the antibody data… Without it all of our planning is like groping in the dark. We have to assume worst cases and wait to gather enough information to then scale back efforts to slow the disease down. It is infuriating that our advanced society still cannot develop and produce an antibody test in a shorter time frame – it’s not like we didn’t know this would happen. It isn’t like an antibody test needs years of testing for safety either – take a drop of blood and test it – there done. We have already mapped several Corona viruses, so we know how to map the proteins and should be faster at it by now – we have had 15 years to practice on a Corona virus. CDC just seems totally unprepared.

All this focus on imaginary problems (i.e. Climate Change) has wasted valuable resources that should have been devoted to preparing for real disasters. Maybe now people will begin to understand the difference between an exaggerated future concern for 100 years from now, and a real concern that is overdue.

William Astley
Reply to  Robert of Texas
April 4, 2020 2:33 pm

I totally agree with your comments.

We should publically request that the CDC be provided access to take blood to do the necessary antibody analysis. They of course will not give access. They are hiding something.

The problem is China has intimidated many of the developed countries using trade and other issues as a lever to get whatever they want.

They openly use electronic means to steal trade secrets. They force companies to give up technology using economic force.

Michael Jankowski
April 4, 2020 10:50 am

The concealment may go beyond the delays in informing the WHO and lying about cases and deaths.

John Tillman
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
April 4, 2020 11:39 am

It also goes forward, to not allowing in Western experts to assess the disease’s traits.

That’s why the US CDC and other such centers had to guess:

And the regime is still lying.

Russ R.
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
April 4, 2020 4:45 pm

There is no doubt that Wuhan is not where this outbreak would happen if it happened due to animals in the wetmarket. The bat colonies carrying these viruses are common in the southern regions of China, not the Wuhan area. The only source for these bats in Wuhan is the “Wuhan Institute of Virology” and the “Wuhan Center for Disease Control & Prevention”. The chances of it coming from any other source is extremely low. There are 1000’s of wet markets all over SE Asia. The only thing that distinguishes this one, is the labs in the area.
The researchers had searched all over SE Asia. They came up empty, until they started testing for antibodies. The bats would get the viruses and fight them off or die. So the researchers had to find an infected bat, that had not yet fought off the infection or died from it. They could follow the path of bats that had it previously to the specific caves with the disease. And none of these were anywhere near Wuhan. The Bat Woman admits this, and we can be sure that she knows where the infected bats are, and where they are not:

Shi — a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years — walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical areas of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals — particularly bats, a known reservoir for many viruses. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “could they have come from our lab?”

The only remaining question is how it got out of the labs. And why did the CCP round up the doctors that knew about this, and threaten them? That is going to be viewed as action that cannot be tolerated in a civilized world. The government of China is liable for the destruction of this pandemic. Their actions before, during, and after the release of this virus show wanton disregard for the public safety of the people of China, and the people of the World.

Reply to  Russ R.
April 4, 2020 9:55 pm

One version of how the virus got out of the lab, was that an unscrupulous researcher was selling some of the live animals from the lab into the wet markets only a 1/4 mile away, just for some pocket money. I could buy that theory because it doesn’t show that it was a deliberate plot by someone from somewhere, but one of simple greed for a bit of cash. Stupid people do stupid things sometimes and the consequences can be horribly significant. Just consider a careless smoker in a forest during peak fire season, and that says it all.

Russ R.
Reply to  Earthling2
April 4, 2020 11:19 pm

More likely accidental or criminal. These are “creme of the crop” PHD scientists working on a prestigious project. Compared to the society they lived in, they would be in the top 80% of wage earners for their experience level. They were well aware of the danger involved in what they were doing. This would have the kind of security of nuclear or chemical WMD. But it is very contagious and you can catch it without knowing you have it.
There is a “missing” researcher that featured in the video at the bottom of this page. She has very valuable skills and would not just “decide to do something else”. If she doesn’t show up there is a high likelihood that she was infected and became patient 0.
But then what? She was young and very unlikely to succumb to the disease. She would have been an embarrassment to the CCP and that is far more fatal than Wu Flu.

Russ R.
Reply to  Russ R.
April 5, 2020 8:47 am

Observations about the missing researcher:
She had knowledge and skills that were Top Secret and highly valued by the CCP. The chance that she would “move on” to other work, and they would not know where, what, when, and with who, is zero.
They say she left in 2015, but is in a picture with the group in 2018.
There is a vigorous search for her by the public, but the CCP is not spending any time or effort trying to find her, even though they would benefit the most from her discovery.
Several of her superiors denied she was ever an employee, until confronted by her earlier publications. Then they acknowledged that she had worked there but had left years ago. These are people that worked in a small team of less than forty. They would have worked daily, traveled, and would know every member by name, face, reputation, and skill set.
The story they are trying to sell is defective. And it will not survive the scrutiny that is coming.

April 4, 2020 10:51 am

It is useless to get upset about China’s level of disclosure.
If their widely publicized Jan 23rd actions of locking down 50 million people and welding the doors to apartments shut did not raise the alarm, it means our intelligence services are deaf and blind, as well as witless. Did Xi have to brief them personally that this disease is super dangerous?

What is more reprehensible is the bureaucratic sloth and ineptitude of the WHO and the CDC that delayed a concerted early response. We got at least a month of lead time and we squandered that time. That is our fault, not China’s.

Reply to  etudiant
April 4, 2020 11:08 am

They have closed their doors to foreighners too. If the Chinese know more than we do, why are some assuming that this disease is mild?

John Tillman
Reply to  etudiant
April 4, 2020 11:36 am

China knew in November that a new virus was causing pneumonia, whether it came from the Wuhan bioweapons lab or the wet market. The CPC coverup cost the world months, during which time flights continued to and from Wuhan to Italy, New York and the world, to include for Chinese New Year’s celebrants.

Mardi Gras syndrome writ large, on a global scale.

Reply to  etudiant
April 4, 2020 1:32 pm

So it’s the fire department’s fault because they didn’t get to the blaze on time?

BTW, the arsonist assured the fire department that the bells were ringing because of a false alarm.

Ron Long
April 4, 2020 10:56 am

The USA is undergoing two plagues, and they should be cured by: 1. Covid-19, sometime in June or July, and 2. Trump Derangement Syndrome, cured in early November. Wait for it. Stay safe!

Steve Case
Reply to  Ron Long
April 4, 2020 11:37 am

Ron Long April 4, 2020 at 10:56 am
The USA is undergoing two plagues, and they should be cured by: 1. Covid-19, sometime in June or July, and 2. Trump Derangement Syndrome, cured in early November. Wait for it. Stay safe!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Best one I’ve heard in a while: Plus Ten !!!!!

Reply to  Ron Long
April 4, 2020 12:44 pm

The USA is undergoing two plagues . . . 2. Trump Derangement Syndrome, cured in early November.

On the contrary, I suspect the 2nd wave of TDS will fast present itself more symptomatic than ever after TheDonald wins in November . . .

Remember the wisdom of White: “You can’t fix Stupid!”

Javert Chip
Reply to  Ron Long
April 4, 2020 6:47 pm

Yea, Joe Biden (the man who can hide his own Easter eggs) would have done a better job.

Remember, Joe already had a shot at this National Emergency stuff back with H1N1 and Obama. A thousand US citizens died before Joe & Obama did much of anything….after which Joe became a laughing stock, requiring the Obama administration to apologize for his behavior.

April 4, 2020 10:58 am

There was a brief mention in a news report the other day that the men-having-sex-with-men (MHSWM) community have been hit with its second plague. First, HIV/AIDS struck this population with devastation and now this same community is enduring its second plague, the coronavirus pandemic. COVID-19 attacks a person’s immune system, and for (MHSWM), those whose immune systems are already impaired by Human Immunodeficiency Virus, COVID-19 finds a vulnerable host.

Flint Michigan’s mayor, Sheldon Neeley imposed a curfew on the City at the request of local law enforcement after groups were gathering in convenience store’s parking lots ignoring social distancing practices and the shelter-in-place order by Governor Gretchen Whitmer.

Many parks and recreation facilities that are already officially posted as closed, are removing basketball hoops as people gather to play “pick-up” basketball games.

It is sometimes misleading for some news outlets to opine on how governmental authority’s initial estimates of who may be part of the vulnerable population to the COVID-19 virus, may not have taken into account the behavior of some individuals or groups of individuals in their calculations and subsequent warnings.

I wonder, when it comes to allocating scarce medical resources, whether consideration is given to anything other than the person’s needs who present themselves in an urgent situation?

Reply to  RiHo08
April 4, 2020 12:02 pm

The methadone clinics in Massachusetts (Operated by High Point) are horrible. Packed with people (no social distancing), people coughing next to each other and then the ‘patients’ go back to work at essential businesses stocking groceries, warehouse work, drive thru fast food and coffee shops.

This absolutely needs to be immediately addressed. Complaints have been filed now let’s see what happens.

April 4, 2020 10:59 am

You can’t rely on media. This is why.

I’m a retired fire chief and only rely on people I personally know working in the field and on the front lines. Too much crap out there even in MSM.

Reply to  john
April 4, 2020 11:16 am

Only 50% with no symptoms is actually worrying because a lot of people are relying on those silent cases to reduce the fatality rate. Soe want to multiply the estimated cases by 2000, not 2. Lots of people think they’ve had it, but in all probability only had a cold or the flu.

Reply to  john
April 4, 2020 12:03 pm

Sweden with no lock down had 15 deaths today. Two days ago 65 deaths.

Reply to  richard
April 4, 2020 2:26 pm

Well, the way CDC reports cases, if you test positive in NY it’s a NY case. If someone from NY flees to Maine at a camp out in the woods, spreads it to everyone at the general store, goes to the hospital and tests positive, it’s still a f-ing NY case.

April 4, 2020 11:40 am

China has been lying about this virus from the start. I’ve never seen a virus this contagious, spread so fast and be so dangerous to healthcare workers.

Reply to  Rob
April 4, 2020 4:14 pm

Speed of spreading is due to long incubation period: median 5 days. Flu is about 2 d. That makes a massive difference to the exponential growth as it spreads.

The main danger to health workers is not mystery either, it’s the pathetic amount of PPE available.

April 4, 2020 12:02 pm

hmm other data coming out suggests they are not lying-

“The two Stanford professors of medicine, Dr. Eran Bendavid and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, explain in an article that the lethality of Covid19 is overestimated by several orders of magnitude and is probably even in Italy only at 0.01% to 0.06% and thus below that of influenza. The reason for this overestimation is the greatly underestimated number of people already infected (without symptoms). As an example, the fully tested Italian community of Vo is mentioned, which showed 50 to 75% symptom-free test-positive persons”

“Population samples from China, Italy, Iceland and the U.S. provide relevant evidence. On or around Jan. 31, countries sent planes to evacuate citizens from Wuhan, China. When those planes landed, the passengers were tested for Covid-19 and quarantined. After 14 days, the percentage who tested positive was 0.9%. If this was the prevalence in the greater Wuhan area on Jan. 31, then, with a population of about 20 million, greater Wuhan had 178,000 infections, about 30-fold more than the number of reported cases. The fatality rate, then, would be at least 10-fold lower than estimates based on reported cases”

Reply to  richard
April 4, 2020 12:52 pm

Wuhan had 178,000 infections and about 2200 dead (possibly under reported) and that is 1.2%, so the two Stanford professors of medicine are wrong!
Who sponsored their research?
Wuhan Institute of Virology ?
just look up their research.
Center for Molecular Virology
Center for Bacteria and Virus Resources and Application
Center for Virus Pathology
Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases

Reply to  Vuk
April 5, 2020 1:08 am

Neil Ferguson lead to the lockdown in the Uk- He has never got a prediction right.

Reply to  richard
April 4, 2020 1:45 pm

Those estimates would not work for Italy. To get to 15,000 cases with a 0.01% mortality would require that 150 million people were infected. The population of Italy is about 60 million.

At 0.06%, that’s still 25 million. That would mean that over 40% of Italy’s population is infected. That doesn’t seem likely.

Russ R.
Reply to  richard
April 4, 2020 2:54 pm

It doesn’t matter if the fatality rate is at or lower than influenza. There is herd immunity to all known strains of influenza. There is essentially no immunity to NOVEL Wuhan virus. That means everyone exposed to it becomes infected.
That means ALL critical cases will occur in such a rapid fashion that we cannot get people out of the ICU before new ones exceed the capacity of the system.
China’s answer to this problem was to fire up the crematoriums and run them 24/7 for several weeks. The real numbers for deaths in Wuhan are multiple 10’s of thousands. That is why the foreign press had to be suppressed and exiled. It is easier to get away with this while the press is complicit. This will be the wake up call for the worlds press. Are they professionals, or are they propaganda distribution channels?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Russ R.
April 4, 2020 6:05 pm

Russ R
You said, “There is essentially no immunity to NOVEL Wuhan virus.” Than how would you explain the high percentage of asymptomatic people and those with mild symptoms? I think the two most likely explanations are that 1) some members of the population have a native immunity resulting from genetic diversity, or 2) COVID-19 has been around long enough to infect a large number of people and it was assumed to be a seasonal flu. Anything else come to mind?

Russ R.
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 4, 2020 7:56 pm

Yes. They are infected and not showing symptoms. It is part of the pathology of the disease. All diseases show different symptoms on different people. They go through a “life cycle” that is more successful in some than others. If you want the details this is a good look at the hijacking of a cell:
This virus seems to have a “predatory” disposition, meaning it preys on those with compromised health.
I think we will find most of those that are asymptomatic are young or healthy or both. But that is not definitive. Some of those people will get very sick but very few die. This is a novel disease that has not been around in recorded history.
The only ones with any immunity to it are people living in the remote tropical areas of South China near Shitou Cave. That is the area that these viruses are from and a small minority of the population shows antibodies to some of these coronaviruses. There are many of these viruses and most of them are harmless. If you want to understand the history of this, I would suggest the story of someone trying to help mankind:

And the story of how it can all go terribly wrong when you have incompetence or malfeasance securing immense danger:

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 4, 2020 8:15 pm

The most likely explanation is the one that has been given by the medical experts.
1) If you are young and healthy, the virus has less effect.
2) The virus affects different people with different levels of intensity. (Just like all diseases do.)

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 4, 2020 10:00 pm

Number 2 is begging the question as to why any pathogen will affect people differently. It might be related to how many pathogens infect the person, but it could also be that there is some inherent immunity.

I’m reminded of a story about a volcanic crater in Africa that had never been populated by humans — until recently. There was a balanced ecosystem with predator-prey relationships. Local tribesmen brought their cattle and dogs into the crater. Shortly thereafter, 90% of the large cats died, I think from distemper. The 10% that survived had an immunity to the disease and, within about a decade, repopulated the crater with cats that were all immune to the disease.

Russ R.
Reply to  MarkW
April 4, 2020 10:50 pm

Clyde: Look up typhoid Mary. There is a long history of asymptomatic carriers. There are just more of them with the Wuhan Plague than most of the previous Plagues.

Immunity is based on producing antibodies. No antibodies, no immunity. You only get antibodies from previous infections, vaccines, or antibody injections.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2020 10:50 am

You said, “No antibodies, no immunity.” That is a commonly held opinion. Was Typhoid Mary ever checked for antibodies? No. So, we can’t rule out some other kind of natural immunity from genetic diversity to explain an extreme outlier like TM.

An all encompassing theory needs to explain WHY there are differences in susceptibility to diseases, differences in recovery rates, differences in fatality rates, and differences in severity experienced.

Someone like Typhoid Mary may well have had antibodies to typhoid, but she probably survived her initial infection because of a natural immunity.

Russ R.
Reply to  MarkW
April 5, 2020 11:34 am

Immunity is a very specific term. You are mixing up “infected without symptoms”, and the ability to prevent infection in the first place.
An asymptomatic person will get immunity after they have cleared the infection from their system using antibodies. Until they do, they are infected and contagious.
Typhoid Mary and every other asymptomatic carrier does not have antibodies, because if they did, they would use them to clear the system.
It is like a key for a lock. Until you find the right key you can not open the lock. Whether you have symptoms or not is irrelevant. Once the key is found your immune system is able to open the lock and clear the virus. No key, no opening of the lock.
Many of the symptoms and many of the deaths are caused by immune system attacking the invader while it search for this key. That is why some asymptomatic people can be infected and contagious for a long time. They are not spiraling into a systemic breakdown from the immune system attacking the invader.
For those that are asymptomatic and clear the disease in a normal time, it is because their immune system sees this as an easy test, and does not go into full scale war mode. It solves the Rubik’s cube and doesn’t break a sweat doing it.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Russ R.
April 5, 2020 8:28 am

Is that a serious question? CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, NYT, WaPo…

Reply to  richard
April 4, 2020 3:14 pm

OK, a critical point according to Dr. Bhattacharya, as stated in the video that you posted below, is that no one really knows how deadly the virus is without antibody screening.

April 4, 2020 12:07 pm

Isn’t there an annual award for investigations that prove the bloody obvious? If there’s not, there should be.

Reply to  JaneHM
April 4, 2020 12:54 pm

Yes. Anyone w/modest intelligence should assume any numbers out of China are false, except perhaps the date. Unfortunately, prb’ly the same goes for most of the US fake-media. Numbers are always the first things to go….

April 4, 2020 12:24 pm

“The disease is way more severe than anybody could actually imagine,” Grayver said. “I cry. I think that’s ok to actually say, the fact that I do allow myself to, at a certain point, feel what this actually means.”

She said that if others could see what she has to witness on a daily basis, people would take the quarantine much more seriously, and no one would ever leave their home.

Reply to  ren
April 4, 2020 5:42 pm

Virus fear porn.

April 4, 2020 12:34 pm

Recommendations of management in SARS-CoV-2 infection of the Polish Association of Epidemiologists and Infectiologists
Authors: Robert Flisiak, Andrzej Horban, Jerzy Jaroszewicz, Dorota Kozielewicz, Małgorzata Pawłowska, Miłosz Parczewski, Anna Piekarska, Krzysztof Tomasiewicz, Dorota Zarębska-Michaluk
Article type: Special article
Received: March 30, 2020.
Accepted: March 31, 2020.
Published online: March 31, 2020.
ISSN: 1897-9483

Joel O'Bryan
April 4, 2020 12:36 pm

The reason this virus spread so quickly was the asymptomatic-but infectious phase 3-4 days before the onset of symptoms, and in many people below age 60 the mildness of the symptoms led to recovery without seeking medical care or testing. So while the asymptomatic infected were super-spreaders, that also is an inoculating event in those communities.

So the asymptomatic also offers a silver lining — the build up of herd immunity to SARS-CoV-2 in those hardest hit areas is also likely substantial, undetected, and growing. My hunch is by the time an effective vaccine it approved and mass-produced (18 months minimum) it will be largely moot for the majority of the healthy children and adults, as most of us will have immunity, and thus sporadic outbreaks of COVID-19 will quickly sputter out. Where the vaccine will be most effective then will be the immuno-compromised and the elderly as a booster, a situation similar to the annual influenza vaccine now.

The efforts to find a vaccine I suspect are hugely flawed with the attempts to use proprietary technology (mRNA vaccines, DNA dendritic cell vaccines etc) to get a vaccine to give to SARS-CoV-2 naive recipients. The use of patented, proprietary technology offers the finaical incentive to biotechs/biopahrmaceutical companies to make lots of money. Using a live, attenuated corona virus (LACV) vaccine is not where the money is, athis is not getting the attention it should.

The lesson of the 1960’s Respiratory Syncitial Virus (RSV) vaccine is quite pertinent when deep lung infectious viruses are involved. The RSV vaccine failed, not because it didn’t induce a potent antibody response, it failed because it didn’t induce the concomitant long-lived T-cell cytotoxic memory response needed to clear infected cells in conjunction with antibodies made by B-cells. The RSV vaccine was formalin-inactivated (dead) RSV preparation and it induced a very strong antibody response from the humoral (B-cell) arm of the human immune system. But antibodies by themselves can’t kill infected cells, they only bind and neutralize free virus in the blood palsma and in tssue fluid spaces between cells and in the luymphatic system.
But RSV structural surface proteins trafficked to the cell’s plasma-membrane also induces a cell-cell fusion and then the virus can spread to the next adjacent lung epithelial cell that way without antibodies being able to stop it. That’s why the immune response has to have a dual attack of B-cell derived neutralizing antibodies and cytotoxic T cells to kill infected cells that antibodies can’t reach. And the deep lung epithelial tissue environment is largely immunotolerant environment because the lungs are frequently exposed to non-toxic agents we breath in and the immune system can’t make a lethal response to everything that it encounters, so the deep air sac epithelial linings in our lungs are a tolerogenic, tissue and so getting cytotoxic T-cell response there needs a live infectious agent to do that.

We know a lot about SARS-CoV-1, the original 2002-2003 SARS virus and how it’s trimeric Spike protein also induces cell-cell fusion and can spread that way, very similar to RSV. And SARS-CoV-2 is highly likely to behave exactly the same way with regards to S(pike) protein function and cell-cell fusion. Thus any COVID-19/SARS-Cov-2 vaccine that doesn’t induce a robust cytotoxic T-cell response in conjunction with neutralizing antibodies is likely to actually increase the pathology of the actual COVID-19 disease in the naive recipient. And these mRNA vaccines and other fancy stuff using plant-made proteins are not likely to make long-lived cytotoxic T-cell memory responses to deep lung viral infections to prevent the same amplification of pathology just like RSV vaccine did to RSV-naive children in the 1960s. Getting a long-lived memory potently cytotoxic T-cell response in the lungs to SARS-CoV-2 is going to require a live virus vaccine, but one attenuated in its effector functions so as prevent pathological symptoms and lung tissue damage from the vaccine. And all those fancy technologies are simply a waste of money and effort IMO.

Joel O'Bryan
April 4, 2020 12:38 pm

My comment comment-2955578 is stuck in moderation because I used the K word… again.

Thanks in advance.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
April 4, 2020 1:47 pm

What is that word?

Reply to  Scissor
April 4, 2020 1:54 pm


Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Vuk
April 4, 2020 6:11 pm

Sorry to hear that, Vuk! 🙂

Jeff Alberts
April 4, 2020 12:38 pm

“What a surprise; Communists lying about the scale of a problem.”

You could say that about every government.

April 4, 2020 12:47 pm

Unfortunately not in english.

“The ARTE documentary „Profiteers of Fear“ from 2009 shows how the mainly privately financed WHO „upgraded“ a mild wave of influenza (the so-called „swine flu“) to a global pandemic so that vaccines worth several billion dollars could be sold to governments around the world. Some of the protagonists of that time are again prominently represented in the current situation”

Krishna Gans
Reply to  richard
April 4, 2020 2:17 pm

Also they contracted further vaccine produktion, and, as no pandemy surged up. they were obliged to buy all the unnecessary vaccines.

April 4, 2020 12:48 pm

Any time politicians and bureaucrats get together, the truth suffers.

Three theories are advanced as possible explanations for secrecy: The first, the External Threat explanation, suggests that government secrecy is designed to protect sensitive information from external enemies. The second explanation, the Bureaucratic Politics explanation, views secrecy as a relatively unsystematic process that results from the (collectively) irrational features in any government bureaucracy. The third explanation, the Internal Threat approach, argues that government officials use secrecy to mislead the populations of their own countries. link

That certainly happened a lot in the Soviet Union. It happens in China. It has happened from time to time in America. The thing that best protects America is the chance that lying liars will be exposed and serve as a salutary example to others. In that regard, maybe my biggest disappointment with Obama was his war on whistle blowers. link

The Soviet Union lasted less than one human lifetime. One big reason was that bureaucrats were afraid to tell their bosses the truth. How are you supposed to run an evil empire if you don’t even know what’s going on?

China punished the doctor who first warned of the coronavirus. That certainly set things off on the wrong foot. The Chinese regime should learn a lesson or two from the demise of the USSR. So should the Democrats.

Reply to  commieBob
April 4, 2020 7:56 pm

Thus, the concepts:

1. small government. this is how our government was designed from the beginning, and reinforced when Constitution enacted.

2. open government. FOIA and so on. this is what we need more of now.

Jeff Alberts
April 4, 2020 1:03 pm

“It has happened from time to time in America.”

I’d say it happens constantly, everywhere, and is largely a matter of perspective/opinion.

Skeptics would say that everything the Obama administration said about climate and the environment were either lies, or gross misrepresentations. And “progressives” would say the same thing about the Trump administration. Nothing really changes.

April 4, 2020 1:10 pm

In tobacco, but also other plants, and even yeast or cell lines, you can produce vaccines so-called subunit. Such vaccines usually contain one or more virus proteins – most of them are structural proteins, i.e. those that form a virus envelope. What makes them different from attenuated vaccines?

– These particles externally resemble a given virus and cause almost the same immune response as a natural virus. They do not contain genetic material of the virus. Therefore, there is no risk in their case of neither the virus multiplying nor the return of the virus to its virulent form and disease symptoms – the expert explains.

April 4, 2020 1:13 pm

Questioning Conventional Wisdom in the COVID-19 Crisis, with Dr. Jay Bhattacharya

William Astley
April 4, 2020 1:19 pm

More lies and a new problem due to covid which must be addressed.

Some of the countries, are worried that they will not be able to feed their people and are hence banning the export of food.

This could create food shortages in China, as China is the largest grain importer in the world. A food shortage would give China an excuse/reason to use military pressure to get whatever they want.

I see this as a fake problem, because I know countries like Canada have more grain than they can sell.

If there really was a world shortage of grain, we in North America could just reduce the number of cattle which frees up more grain than we could ever use. We just eat less meat, if there really was a world shortage which there is not.

There has for years been discussion that the situation in China and how the Chinese Military view the world, is very similar to the situation with Germany before the second world war.

However, a so-called secret document with the signature “CPC Linxia Prefecture Committee Office” was recently circulated online.

The document shows that on March 17, the Linxia Prefecture Committee held a special meeting to arrange special arrangements for food security.

“It states:” The state party committee and state governments and counties and cities should do everything possible to transfer and store various kinds of living materials such as grain, beef, mutton, oil and salt through a variety of channels.

At the same time, they must “guide the people to consciously store grain and ensure that each household reserves 3 Grain to 6 months, in case of unexpected needs. “The document is dated March 28, 2020.

Many countries also announced a ban on the export of some grains
China, with a population of about 1.4 billion, is the world’s largest grain importer. Nearly 80% of its soybeans depend on imports, and more than 100 million tons of grain are imported each year.

Ten days ago, Vietnam announced that it would ban the export of rice from March 24; Kyrgyzstan also banned the export of 11 commodities, mainly food and food, within six months;

Kazakhstan banned the export of agricultural products such as wheat and carrots; Thailand announced that it would stop exporting rice and eggs.

However, Chinese official media have frequently published articles recently to emphasize that China has sufficient food reserves to appease the people.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  William Astley
April 4, 2020 6:14 pm

You suggested, “If there really was a world shortage of grain, we in North America could just reduce the number of cattle which frees up more grain than we could ever use.” Or, just not fatten up the cattle in feedlots before being butchered. Or, producing less corn-ethanol now that there is a glut of fossil fuels.

April 4, 2020 1:34 pm

This is a very curious video:

Reply to  Chas
April 4, 2020 2:34 pm

The video is a pretty good manual of how to actually think about the problem and, perhaps, avoid getting stampeded by BS. It mentions excess mortality. Roy Spencer points out that, as of five days ago, excess mortality is actually down. link

Is it possible that the anti coronavirus measures we’re taking are saving lives in other ways.

Many have observed that seasonal flu carries off many old people every year and nobody is very upset about this. On the other hand when health care professionals and particularly doctors, are affected the problem is immediately escalated to a crisis. Call me a cynic but …

On the other, other hand, there’s Ecuador. Am I sitting on the fence? Why, yes I am, but the fence is in self imposed isolation (and also comfortably padded).

As a result of this excellent video, am I going to change my behavior? Nope.

April 4, 2020 1:35 pm

China lied? It must be a day ending in “y.”

April 4, 2020 2:04 pm

There’s another report about an antibody drug Leronlimab the might be more effective than Chloroquine.

A lot of maybes and might bes. I’ve lost count of these possible treatments, and I have no idea anymore how to evaluate these reports.

April 4, 2020 2:46 pm

In the beginning China was sucking in huge amounts of medical finished goods from around the world. Their is an evolving scandal in Australia as Chinese Govt run companies bought and exported tons of medical supplies from Australia to China, leaving the country short. If they were doing this in a relatively small market like Australia, yet can bet they were gouging the bigger nations also.

Now they come at us with a smiley face and donations. Spare us China, the truth is out.

April 4, 2020 3:21 pm

try to relax-

“Professor John Oxford of Queen Mary University London, one of the world’s leading virologists and influenza specialists, comes to the following conclusion regarding Covid19: „Personally, I would say the best advice is to spend less time watching TV news which is sensational and not very good. Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic. In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!“

“John Oxford
John Oxford is the UK’s top expert on influenza and Emeritus Professor of Virology at the University of London.

His work on the 1918 strain of influenza (Spanish flu) is world famous”

April 4, 2020 3:36 pm

I heard from a secret source that cannot be named that a Delta 747 flight was loaded with sars cov 2 virus in Wuhan. The virus was sprayed into the vapour trails of the plane which made stopovers in Italy Spain before flying on to NY.

Bloody h*ll
Is this really worth publishing?
“The officials asked not to be identified because the report is secret, and they declined to detail its contents. But the thrust, they said, is that China’s public reporting on cases and deaths is intentionally incomplete. Two of the officials said the report concludes that China’s numbers are fake”

Reply to  ghalfrunt
April 4, 2020 8:21 pm

Pathetic response, but expected.

April 4, 2020 4:05 pm

richard April 4, 2020 at 3:21 pm
“Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic. In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!“
You what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many young (30 year od) nurses with no medical conditions die during a flu outbreak.
How many doctors die during a flu outbreak
and all this with PPE equipment being used.

Why are spaces being converted into hospitals?
I don’t recall this last winter with flu.

Reply to  ghalfrunt
April 5, 2020 1:11 am

how many-

“Various media reported that more than 50 doctors in Italy have already died „during the corona crisis“, like soldiers in a battle. A glance at the corresponding list, however, shows that most of the deceased are retired doctors of various kinds, including 90-year-old psychiatrists and pediatricians, many of whom may have died of natural causes”

then compare to how many healthy children die from Flu.

Reply to  ghalfrunt
April 5, 2020 1:14 am

back in 2018 in the US they had to use tents for the influenza epidemic.

Haven’t you seen the youtubers footage of empty hospitals?

Steven Mosher
April 4, 2020 4:37 pm

“But a lot of lives would have been spared if China had been a little more honest when it counted.”

I doubt it.

People here would have still raised doubts even if the numbers were double
Look, people here still doubt this is worse than the flu.
No amount of data will convince some people here that this is not a problem.
there Life depends on them doubting data.

being practical however we can see.
The WHO was informed on Dec 31,
China welded a city shut on Jan 23rd.
How could you not know it was bad? I mean seriously.

My Beijing hotel started scrubbing every surface with bleach on Jan 22.

what does a logical person conclude? Huh?
what idiot would look at the government numbers and ignore the government ACTIONS?
who here never heard the phrase “actions speak louder than words?”
well this dummy got it. fricking obvious
especially when you know that ALL HUMANS will underestimate and underreport problems
And early on people also knew the numbers were underreported, which should have meant
“take stronger action earlier”, not “pretend its the flu”

so ya, remember when we used to argue about testing? when the USA had 68 cases and 0 deaths?
And there’s that guy Mosher again, the alarmist trying to warn you?
Who was it? ah yes, MarkW chiming in that Mosher would not be happy unless we are all tested”

Remember that? 30 days and 300,000 cases ago.

would people here have listened if china numbers were 100% accurate? Nope.
They still won’t listen or admit that they got it wrong.

Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 4, 2020 8:23 pm

The trolls are getting ever more pathetic in their attempts at diversion.

Really steve, because a handful of people on this web site wouldn’t have trusted the data coming out of China, therefore the US government and all of the states wouldn’t have done anything with that data?

I never knew that we were that influential. Maybe the oil companies should pay us more?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
April 4, 2020 10:03 pm

Hey, MarkW. I didn’t get my check this month! Did you? 🙂

Rich Davis
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
April 5, 2020 9:00 am

None of us have. Damn russkiys and Saudis are having a price war that has our oil baron masters in a bind. I’m thinking of shilling for EurekAlert! if they don’t pay up soon. Maybe OrangeManBad will bail us out?

Russ R.
Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 4, 2020 10:15 pm

December 31: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

Three weeks after doctors first started noticing the cases, China contacts the World Health Organization.

Tao Lina, a public-health expert and former official with Shanghai’s center for disease control and prevention, tells the South China Morning Post, “I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China’s disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support.”

January 14: Wuhan city health authorities release another statement declaring, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.” Wuhan doctors have known this was false since early December, from the first victim and his wife, who did not visit the market.

The World Health Organization echoes China’s assessment: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.”

This is five or six weeks after the first evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan.

Are you sure these are the people you want to defend?
Half a world away in a closed society and we are supposed to understand that they are lying to us?
And the WHO was in on the scam?
By the time we knew it was a problem the infected people were already here, infecting more people!
And by the time anyone is sick they have infected multiple people who are infectious but not sick.
The only way we knew how bad it was, was when Italy started going south. They had the decency to let us know what was happening. A decency that China lacks.
We listened when Italy’s numbers were realistic. We would have listened when China did the same. But they didn’t. And anyone chirping over the graves of thousands of dead fathers, mothers, grandparents, brothers, sisters, wives, daughters, sons, friends, co-workers, and just good people, that had no dog in this fight is pathetic. You really need some counseling.

Reply to  Steven Mosher
April 4, 2020 10:43 pm

I am seriously confused. Are the same people who accuse China of seriously understating the extent of the problem also saying that coronavirus isn’t worse than the regular flu?

Reply to  commieBob
April 5, 2020 3:32 am

commieBob April 4, 2020 at 10:43 pm
it certainly looks like it!!!!

richard April 4, 2020 at 3:21 pm
“Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic.

John Tillman April 4, 2020 at 11:36 am
China knew in November that a new virus was causing pneumonia, whether it came from the Wuhan bioweapons lab or the wet market. The CPC coverup cost the world months, during which time flights continued to and from Wuhan to Italy, New York and the world, to include for Chinese New Year’s celebrants.
it is interesting that china is helping many countries with equipment and personnel (including the usa). Would they be doing this if there was still a disease ridden population in china?

I suppose the conspiracy theorists would liken Chinas aid to the world to the the smallpox infected blankets to native American story!

April 4, 2020 4:43 pm

Interesting analysis about a possible transmission of SARS-COV2 from China (patient zero).

Reply to  proxima
April 4, 2020 6:05 pm

Thanks for the video proxima. Any inside information about the true extent of numbers of people affected by the virus in regard to China?

Reply to  Megs
April 5, 2020 3:58 pm

Megs: No numbers on real impact in China, but the same guy that made the video noticed millions of cancelled accounts of cell phone users.
He doesnt conclude that these people have died but that every little news give birth to a conspiracy theory in a country like China where nobody really believes the gouvernement.

April 4, 2020 6:21 pm

If China is lying about COVID-19,
how do we know if they are living up to the Paris Climate Accords

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Neo
April 4, 2020 7:22 pm

They didn’t make any. They have a free pass until 2030. I suspect in after this scare and in 10 years time all will be forgotten about what happened in Paris.

Reply to  Neo
April 4, 2020 9:06 pm

They promised to … imagine possibly considering making plans to one day reduce emissions a little bit.

Do you believe they reneged on that?

April 5, 2020 12:01 am

Governments lie.
Government agencies lie.

So so I don’t believe what the Chinese government says, and I don’t believe what the US intelligence services (who have such a sterling record) say.

Reply to  RoHa
April 5, 2020 1:16 am

best to go with what we do know in a controlled environment.

In the high, viral overloaded cruise liner , Princess Diamond, 11 people out of a ship’s compliment of 3700 died.

Reply to  RoHa
April 5, 2020 5:44 pm

Has any US intel service been interrogated on the DNC hack attacks?

Why did they do nothing at the time?

What is the NSA for anyway? Building and leaking hacking tools? Doing a pissing war with the CIA?

CCB - Stargrazzer
April 5, 2020 1:15 am

I’ve read that there is a L & S strain of :
Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome COronaVirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), colloquially known as the coronavirus and previously known by the provisional name 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV), is a positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus causing the respiratory illness known as COronaVIrus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) & also the article on 8 strains circling the world:

April 5, 2020 12:06 pm

Hey people; let’s stick with the SCIENCE. And let’s NOT allow this to be political. At least that’s what I thought
‘Wattsupwiththat’ was about. I hope I’m not wrong about ‘wattsupwiththat’.

Reply to  Peter
April 5, 2020 5:00 pm

But Peter, politicians bought off large numbers of scientists some years ago!

April 5, 2020 12:38 pm

It is amazing that that so many of the people posting here are ignoring Willis Eschenbach’s COVID-19 page, also here.
It is showing clearly that nCOV is worse than the regular flu even at very low % rates of infection.
Please! Just stop with the conspiracy nonsense.
nCOV isn’t the Black Plague or zombie apocalypse, true, but it is also not a nothingburger.

George Ellis
April 6, 2020 7:49 am

The newer journal, The Epoch Times, has a piece that suggest the numbers in China are huge. TL/DR, 21 million fewer cell phone accounts in China.

Reply to  George Ellis
April 14, 2020 2:17 pm


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