News Brief by Kip Hansen
From the NY Times’ seemingly unlimited stockpile of odd activist efforts on behalf of “The Climate” — we have a new entry that landed in my email box today [it could land in yours too if you subscribe to the newsletter, Climate Fwd:] —
What if We All Ate a Bit Less Meat?
By Jillian Mock
Jillian Mock writes a glowing report of how much land would be freed up and how many tons of reduced CO2 emissions would result if everyone just ate a bit less meat. She references a study from Scientific Reports section of Nature titled, in the modern way, “Environmentally Optimal, Nutritionally Sound, Protein and Energy Conserving Plant Based Alternatives to U.S. Meat”.
The cited study does not concern itself with partial replacement of meat in American diets, but only with total meat replacement (either replacing red meats or all meats). I could guess that the data about partial replacement of meat in diets comes from the date coincident (released 8 August 2019) IPCC Special Report “Climate Change and Land”.
The brief of the new studies meatless diet for Americans is this:
Diet composition, nutrient delivery, and share of resource use
In daily per capita mass, buckwheat, soy, pears, and kidney beans dominate the all meat replacement, while green pepper, soy, asparagus, and squash dominate the beef only replacement …… Because these lists partly reflect the list of plant items we use and the upper mass bounds we impose …, they are unlikely to be the globally optimal plant replacements to the two meat masses and types (that is, more nutritious or environmentally sound alternatives may exist using items not included here). They also take no note of tastes, cuisines or palates, and may thus prove suboptimally deployable.
Please raise your hands if you would be willing to give up all meat in your diet and predominately replace it with “buckwheat, soy, pears, and kidney beans”.
Thank you, hands down.
Now, hands up, those willing to replace only the beef eating predominately green pepper, soy, asparagus, and squash.
Thank you, hands down.
Now farmers only, please: Assuming that we could raise the buckwheat (replacing other grains already cultivated) and already may raise enough soy (if we quit feeding it to animals to make meat), hands up if you think we could shift to raise sufficient pears, green peppers, asparagus and kidney beans to replace the total protein requirement of all the humans in the United States? Hands up for “yes”.
Thank you, I notice there were no hands up.
There is a mostly critical article in Scientific American on the paper.
This is yet another popular science meme to push less- and no-meat diets — mostly by people that have had more-than-adequate diet choices all their lives. Speaking from personal experience among the poor in the Caribbean and South America, people who have been forced by poverty and circumstance to survive on diets lacking meat protein would not have raised their hands to the propositions above.
# # # # #
Author’s Comment Policy:
My family and I ascribe to a diet that already calls for eating meat sparingly, thus meat is often a side-dish or added for flavor and texture to what is primarily a grain and vegetable based diet. Thus, this is not a personal issue for me.
The issue for me is yet another pie-in-the-sky, totally impossible to implement, bubble-headed plan to save the planet from climate change by imposing bizarre restrictions on the free-will choices of the people of this (and other) countries.
I wouldn’t object so much if the proposals made any type of pragmatic, real-world sense at all.
Let me know which proposals you raised your hand to.
# # # # #
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
What’s the difference between boogers and broccoli? Kids won’t eat broccoli.
What do you get when you take Viagra with beans? A stiff wind.
Waiter:And how did you find your steak,sir?
Diner: Well,I just pushed aside a pea and there it was…
Meat means murder….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tA0Pd5C4TQ
Mmmmmmm………murdurrrrrrr…
Delicious flame broiled murder!
Meat has the word eat in it.So i guess that means to dig in!
There will not be climate wars. There will be meat wars. They will only end when the meat eaters eat all the vegetarians.
Funny you did not notice no hand were up for the first two questions either.
Greg ==> You may be right — I thought I saw one hesitant hand in the back row from a wanna-be vegetarian.
I had my hand ready to go up for “Tell them all to mind their own frickin business and keep their grubby paws and nosy nose out of my dang kitchen, thank you very much!”
But that one was not asked.
Kip,
Scientific Reports is not a section of Nature. It is a completely different journal that is
owned by the same publishing conglomerate. It is worth noting that there are essentially
no standards for getting published in Scientific Reports provided you have the money to
pay the open access publishing fees. It recently published an article claiming that homeopathy
worked on rats for example. Getting worked up about or even reading something published there
is a waste of time.
Izaak ==> Thanks for the clarification — the Scientific Reports web site has the NatureResearch banner across the bottom of the page — and the ‘bread crumbs” at the top of the page read “nature > scientific reports > articles”.
Hey come on get with the program! I am proud to say I am doing my bit to reduce that pesky CO2 problem.
Having studied the causes of CO2, I have concluded we must reduce the purveyors of CO2. With that in mind, things like cattle, chickens, pigs those sort of walk about CO2 producers, must be eaten to keep the CO2 in check.
So here is the new tee shirt slogan. “Reduce CO2 Eat beef Save the planet”
NB other meats are also available. 🙂
They also produce methane.
Equids and bovids are still used for transportation and traction in much of the world, but have been largely replaced the engines burning fossil fuels.
Could someone tell the ignoramus that the word is:
predominantly
Not:
predominately
Another word that is misused is :
Pry
when what is meant is:
Prise
John ==> The English language is not as strictly controlled as Climate Science. In English, there are alternate spellings and alternate meanings of words, and usages differ from area to area, country to country, and time to time.
On this particular word, from The Grammarist:
“Predominately means for the main part, mostly. Predominately is the adjective form of the word predominate. It is derived from the Medieval Latin predominatus. Predominantly and predominately are interchangeable, they both mean for the main part, mostly. The Oxford English Dictionary accepts both spellings, as both words date back to the mid-1500s. However, many scholars prefer the word predominantly. The word predominantly is used nearly twenty times as often as the word predominately, according to Google’s Ngram Viewer.”
It looks like Kip is not the ignoramus. It is the accusing party.
Tom Abbott,
A basic rule is that it is unwise to believe anything when its writer does not put his/her own name to it.
Richard
I knew Kip was too polite to say it, so I said it for him.
Tom ==> Thank you, Tom. Very kind.
This problem has already been solved.
Two birds with one stone, too many people and not enough protein: Soylent Green.
It even has “Green” in the name. Must be good for the earth.
One inconvenient fact if all farm animals are eliminated will be their replacement by the expansion of wild animals, deer, bison, buffalo’s and antelopes, all of which are ruminants and produce methane as well as eating crops.
Presumably as vegans won’t have anything to do with killing them so will have to fence off all the crop areas.
Then if their populations get too high there will be a mass die-off as happened in the Kaibab plateau where the deer population exploded following a ban on deer hunting and trashed the vegetation and then starved. The deer population had risen from 4,000 to an estimated 100,000 before the population crash.
Alternatively they will no doubt propose introducing predators to kill off the population surplus.
So it is OK for predators to kill animals but not humans.
On a different topic but relating to methane from cattle, the BBC website has an article about devices for cattle that convert methane from the cattle into CO2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0714bzs
StephenP
vegans are, like AGW advocates, savages who care for nothing but their own selfish existence.
RE: “Presumably as vegans won’t have anything to do with killing them so will have to fence off all the crop areas.’
StephenP,
A bull American buffalo will go though nearly any ‘conventional’ woven wire or board fence to get to new graze… or fertile females. Conventional fences that hold cattle and horses are entirely inadequate for buffalo.
Aside from the vitamin question most vegetables, including beans and pulses, are deficient on sulphur amino acids, methionine and cysteine, worsening the nutrition imbalance of purely vegan diets.
No hands up.
Never, ever I will let a vegetarian dictate that I can not eat meat. You do not see me forcing them to eat meat.
If they wish to go without meat. Great. More meat for me. My body needs it to survive. Like we did for two million years.
Agreed!
A book everyone should read: Primal Body, Primal Mind – Nora T. Gedgaudas
This reminds me of the time in the early 2000’s when I went to a scientific meeting in Beijing with a polish friend who is a vegan (I’m not, emphatically). He had been to Beijing several times during the communist era, but never since, and was speaking lyrically about all the fine vegetarian food in Beijing and was looking forward to eating it again.
He was cruelly disappointed. In the meantime the incomes in Beijing had risen quite a lot, and the people were definitely not content to eat vegetarian food any longer. There wasn’t a single vegetarian restaurant farther than the eye could reach, and consumption of Beijing duck had risen to a point where China was actually having to import frozen ducks from the EU!
Remembe OC who thought that it was white colonialist ideology that made Puerto Ricans in New York grow cauliflower rather than yuca.
That illustrates the degree of understanding of cropping and climate within the left.
tty ==> I’ve heard the meme, but don’t understand the story. How do you make a Puerto Rican in NY grow cauliflower?
Yuca, Manihot esculenta, is a staple crop in tropical countries — “Growing cassava yuca successfully relies upon tropical climates and at least eight months of warm weather.”
One can not grow yuca in New York — the growing season is too short — there are even parts of tropical Dominican Republic (high altitude) where one can not grow yuca.
Indeed. And since Puerto Ricans in general aren’t idiots like OC, they didn’t even try, they grew cauliflowers and other veggies which do grow in New York’s climate. OC on the other hand opined:
“when someone says that it’s ‘too hard’ to do a green space that grows Yucca instead of, I don’t know, cauliflower or something — what you’re doing is you’re taking a colonial approach to environmentalism,”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-growing-cauliflower-colonial
So now you know, matching your crops to the prevailing climate is a “colonial approach”.
This puts a new meaning to the old english phrase “stupid as a cauliflower”.
tty ==> “matching your crops to the prevailing climate” is called gardening …
What, another article telling us that animal farming is bad .
Meat feeds millions of people all over the world and milk feeds millions more .
Having been brought up on a farm and I have farmed all my life ‘
I was born on a sheep farm that was cut out of native bush by my grandfather in the very early 1900s .
This was hilly and was never cultivated except for a large vegetable garden .
The lambs were sold off the hill for lowland farmers to finish for the butchers and the meat works for export ,
first mainly to the UK but markets are now all around the world.
Cattle were run and at first they were English shorthorns and when the 1930s depression took hold many farmers rounded up the cows and hand milked them in very crude sheds and separated the cream off to send away for butter making for export to have a little cash to purchase essentials.
The skim milk was fed to the calves usually in a wooden trough.
All over the hills of New Zealand this happened and as wool and lamb prices recovered the cows were were put back on the hills to control pasture and fern .
Millions of tonnes of meat and wool is still produced on hills that are far to steep to cultivate and the high quality food is still in demand .
The latest UN report is very careful to tell policy makers and politicians that food security has to be the major factor.
7 billion people forecast to increase to 9 billion and that means a lot more food has to be grown and processed.
Stupid people with no idea how food is produced would like to stop all animal farming because of the perceived risk of methane increasing the temperature .
Methane from farmed livestock is a non problem dreamed up by anti meat and milk zealots.
Cows and sheep consume grass and other forage and efficiently convert it into high quality food .
Do away with animals and dead material builds up and then fires start and destroy forests and homes .With proper farm grazing management this can never happen .
Grazed pastures are very good sinks of soil carbon as the livestock leave behind digested grass that earth worms and dung beetles take down into the soil .
I have seen bulldozed red clay tracks turn into lush pasture with a good covering of black top soil in a few years .
There is nothing better than a grass fed scotch fillet brazed till medium rare with a little blue cheese sauce. Graham
Can you imagine how peaceful the world would become if the principle diet was soybeans. The wild men of the steppes would once again dominate.
For some reason that brought back a memory of a pea shooter machine gun I made when I was a kid. Maybe I used soybeans.
Better to use soybeans for BBs than for food; soy is actually not a very healthy thing to eat. It has been marketed as such, of course, and very successfully. Soy used to be used primarily to set nitrogen in the soil between planting crops. Finding “uses” that allowed it to be sold as “food” was therefore profitable, hence the “campaign” to tout its supposed “healthiness.”
In the UK now we are having commercials for meat free burgers being eaten by vampires with the catch line even i’m a bit veggie. they are pushing the non-meat narrative very hard indeed.
Effect of a vegan diet on an infant.Not pay walled. There are other sources.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/vegan-parents-avoid-jail-over-malnourished-daughter-20190822-p52jlr.html
The child is permanently intellectually impaired, and permanently stunted.
That’s how the elites want us – intellectually impaired, stunted, malnourished, and defenseless.
That, plus their unending greed at profiting from crap nobody would buy voluntarily without some smiley-faced-fascist government mandate to consume said crap to “save us” from the latest imaginary hobgoblin.
I hear Gore has a big “Beyond Meat” stake – big reason NOT to ever eat it!
Humans can’t stay healthy on a vegan diet over the long term, you can cause serious permanent damage including brain damage. It seems that vegans hit a wall after about two to five years, depending on how healthy they are when they start. There are plenty of ex vegan horror story testimonies on YouTube. Vegan supplements don’t seem to work either, you need your supplements to be animal based.
On the other hand there are plenty of testimonies of people who thrive in the long term on plant free diets.
Can anyone answer me a question, I have puzzled over for a while?
Why do vegans and vegetarians worry so much about me and my eating habits?
Why are these concerned people so concerned about someone such as me and many others who eat meat? They don’t know me and never will, why are they so worried?
Their obvious good health and longevity which they continually claim, is evidence enough, to convey their much talked about, diet benefits…isn’t it?
When something is better (under the Darwin principle) it will always evolve and win the future.
So relax vegans and veg supporters, you don”t have to constantly bang your puritanical, don’t eat meat drum. If you are correct, you will be the survivors and the rest of us will have died out.
Isn’t that sufficient karma, for you?
Rod Evans ==> I think it is a function of “The Bearer of the Secret” syndrome. Folks who think they have found the “secret of a healthy life” feel obsessed with sharing it and/or forcing it down other peoples throats. Being a possessor of the secret makes them feel “oh so special” — this applies in many fields of human endeavor.
Kip,
Why did Hollywood suddenly come into mind?
Rod ==> Used a thousand times as a movie plot?
A couple of decades ago I spent time on AOL’s “Pet Care Forums\Animal Rights-Animal Welfare”.
There back then their was a sharp difference between a “Vegan” and the various types of “Vegetarians”.
(Types of Vegetarians? Some would eat eggs, some would drink milk and eat cheese, some would eat fish, take animal-based supplements, etc., and still be considered a “Vegetarian”.)
The Vegetarians, generally speaking, would try to persuade people to go that route.
But the “Vegans”! They were the ones that would outlaw eating meat, animal-based supplements and medicines, owning pets, products tested on animals (They didn’t like it when I pointed out that their CRT monitors were tested on animals for radiation exposure.), etc.
Sounds like the “Vegan” mentality rules today’s CO2aphopes.
The people who want an all-veg, all-plant diet inflicted on the human population have no idea where their food comes from, period. They get everything at The Store. Their ignorance of the volume needed to feed an entire global population nothing but plant matter is astounding, never mind their ignorance of real nutrition.
Sara ==> Back in the day, when I was young and strong, and had three small children, my wife and I raised 80% or better of our own food (we couldn’t raise wheat on our small bit of land, so had to purchase that). Huge family garden provided all the veggies for the season, preserved for winter as well — the kids eat many of the vegetables as they picked in the garden (saved a lot of cooking effort!) We had chickens for meat and eggs — allowed to range in the woods during the day — dairy goats for milk and a lamb purchased each spring (average cost US $ 10), raised up on the extra goat milk and alfalfa hay (traded from a local farmer in exchange for labor in the haying season), slaughtered in the Fall.
All my kids (adults now) are taller and healthier than my wife and I as a result. A lovely way to raise children.
Ditto. When I was a little girl, we had a five acre garden, and the three of us kids would go plant the rows after Pop ran the cultivator. We also raised our own chickens for the freezer. Milk was whole milk, not divided into non-fat and low-fat stuff, and ice cream was real ice cream, not this junk loaded with weird chemicals, and we were all healthy, active kids and not one of us was overweight or suffering from some weird gastric disorder.
Sara ==> kindred spirits….
Indeed. Sometimes, I want to take a rid on the Wayback Machine….
I’ve raised radishes in pots because my cats like to chew on the leaves. Vet said it was okay to let them. They get something out of it, and I get firecracker radishes.
Kip well said .
I to was raised with 4 other brothers and sister and we had a large vegetable garden and orchard .
Every second week father would kill a sheep and mother would store it in a small fridge freezer and it would last the two weeks
Hens provided eggs and chicken and a draft horse was harnessed to a single furrow plow to plant a large bag of seed potatoes .
Milk and cream was plentiful as we milked a small herd of cows around 25 to supply cream in cans to a butter factory that is now merged into Fonterra .{ 4th largest dairy company in the world }
Pigs were kept to feed on the skim milk and a small flock of sheep were run and also some Angus cows with calves to sell as weaners.
The youngest of us has turned 71 and we are still all fit and healthy .
The anti milk and meat people can go vegan but tell the truth .
A varied diet including milk and meat is healthy and does not need supplements.
Graham
In our household we tend to eat mostly poultry. It is inexpensive, low fat, and tasty. I never get why all these studies decide they want to go straight from some all beef diet to all soybean diet and ignore how popular chicken and turkey are. Last I saw they are the most popular “meats” in America right now.
But then “low fat” is NOT healthy. Like most, you have been mislead in this respect.
Not that there’s anything wrong with some poultry in your diet, but “fat reduction” is not a goal any human should have for their diet. Starch and sugar reduction, yes – but NOT fat reduction (unless you’re talking about “trans fats,” the rancid, VEGETABLE OIL based garbage found in most baked goods and processed foods).
Saturated fat is GOOD for you – no matter how many stupid commercials you’ve been, pardon the pun, “saturated” with that paint saturated fat as something just short of the demon Satan.
Low fat is full of sugar. That’s the problem. However, in Aus, eggs are now ok, but eat less meat! Hummm…
Yes, since fat gives food good flavor, the “reduced fat” garbage tends to be liberally “enhanced” by adding lots of sugar. Another reason to avoid food proclaiming to be “low fat.”
It’s not saturated fat that raises cholesterol levels. It is simply eating food that does that. I’ve had tests before a meal and another one after a meal – just normal food, nothing special – and cholesterol always went up AFTER the meal. I quite worrying about it because of that.
I love chicken, ham, beef, pheasant, turkey, bacon…. I’m getting carried away here. None of that is bad for you, nor is it expensive and there is no reason to tell anyone to avoid eating animal protein. It’s what gave us bigger brains than the other [apes]. 😛 (I hope no one gets annoyed with my reference to ‘apes’.)
Sara ==> There are beginning to be a lot of medical doubts that dietary fats or dietary cholesterol have any appreciable impact on blood cholesterol levels. Human bodies digest the dietary cholesterol and then manufacture the cholesterol they need later on.
Kip
I posted his blog earlier but very worth while taking a trip along to Malcolm Kendrick’s site, kind of the WUWT for coronary health.
Malcolm is a practising Doctor in the NHS but dead against statins on which he has amassed a huge amount of scientific data, enough to have written a couple of books.
He’s on part 64 of his email newsletter ‘What causes heart disease.’
He’s also all for consuming saturated fats, as he puts it, after tens of thousands of years of evolution, the human body is very well adapted to eating animal fat.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org
HotScot ==> I don’t promote (or dis-promote) any of the “popular medicine” people or their offered cures.
I studied pre-Med in uni for a few years — and have my own views.
I am aware of Kendrick and his viewpoint.
Other readers might be interested and have to use their own critical thinking skills when approaching these not-quite-mainstream ideas.
Kip,
This is consistent what I’ve read / been told. I have no source for it that I can find, but my understanding is that cholesterol is produced by the body to repair the ID of vessels / veins. (Like an asphalt paving patch.) Substances like processed sugars and the like cause damage to the interior of vessels/veins, and the cholesterol patches it over.
I don’t know…seems logical to me. But again, I have no source nor personal knowledge of this.
Personally, I use bourbon and cigars to keep my cholesterol down. Well, and to keep away cancers, viruses, unwanted weight gain, diabetes, etc, etc, etc… 🙂
rip
ripshin ==> Good explanation here at the NIH:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/
Cholesterol levels are not even a health problem per se ANYWAY. That’s just another junk science myth they use to sell you “solutions” (i.e., statins) to the non-problem. All about the money, as usual.
Inconvenient fact – 75% of people who die of heart attacks have so-called “normal” or so-called “low” cholesterol. So when my regular doc tells me my cholesterol is high next time I see him, I’ll hit him with that and tell him I’m glad to be in the LOW RISK group!
Statins are a much bigger threat to your health than cholesterol will ever be.
memo to Jillian: We want more CO2 not less.
Roger Pielke on twitter:
“This shows the ridiculousness of most climate policy discussions. Think about how you might change the eating habits of 320 million Americans. (I have no idea.) Then learn that if successful you reduce emissions by only 2 days of China’s 2019 emissions.”
The meatless push is marketing as much as anything. Take a look at Beyond Meat, a corporation that produces mashed-up vegetable products that allegedly tastes like meat. Beyond Meat has a market cap of just over $9.1 Billion. Of course investors want people to switch from real meat to a plant-based substitute loaded with fat and sodium. Follow the money.
One of the best performing IPOs this year.
Guess who is supposedly an original investor? First name starts with an A, last name starts with a G.
I can just hear the pre IPO strategy conversation. “Ok guys, first we go public and then we have a massive campaign to link meatless to global warming. Brilliant. Fear is our friend. How can we not make money.”
If I would have known that, I would have gotten in the first day.