From the LA times, a bold move, but unlikely they can pull it off.
Germany to close all 84 of its coal-fired power plants, will rely primarily on renewable energy
Germany, one of the world’s biggest consumers of coal, will shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years to meet its international commitments in the fight against climate change, a government commission said Saturday.
The announcement marked a significant shift for Europe’s largest country — a nation that had long been a leader on cutting CO2 emissions before turning into a laggard in recent years and badly missing its reduction targets. Coal plants account for 40% of Germany’s electricity, itself a reduction from recent years when coal dominated power production.
“This is an historic accomplishment,” said Ronald Pofalla, chairman of the 28-member government commission, at a news conference in Berlin following a marathon 21-hour negotiating session that concluded at 6 a.m. Saturday. The breakthrough ended seven months of wrangling. “It was anything but a sure thing. But we did it,” Pofalla said. “There won’t be any more coal-burning plants in Germany by 2038.”
The plan includes some $45 billion in spending to mitigate the pain in coal regions. The commission’s recommendations are expected to be adopted by Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government.
…
The decision to quit coal follows an earlier bold energy policy move by the German government, which decided to shut down all of its nuclear power plants by 2022 in the wake of Japan’s Fukushima disaster in 2011.
…
The initial targets are considerable, calling for a quarter of the country’s coal-burning plants with a capacity of 12.5 gigawatts to be shut down by 2022. That means about 24 plants will be shut within the first three years. By 2030, Germany should have about eight coal-burning plants remaining, producing 17 gigawatts of electricity, the commission said.
full story here
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Will be interesting to see it implemented. Does the anti coal / anti nuke virtue signalling include not using interconnectors to those awful sources of power in other countries? or is it a faux righteousness like California , strutting and preening while quietly leaning other States?
Of course not. Poland’s coal generators are counting on quite the windfall from this. Germany will only succeed in moving the coal generation east. This is doubly true with Macron’s plans to kill France’s nuclear plants in a similar time frame.
WTF. When did all Europan leaders become insane?
Excellent! Now we wait and see how it works out. If it works out, Great! Then we adopt the technologies that made it happen. If it doesn’t, Oh well, no skin off of our noses!
Good bye and good night, Germany. The last’s shuttin’ off the light
It seems Germans are still able to focus totally on unsound ideas to their own detriment.
To borrow from John McEnroe.
“You can not be serious”!!
Where do the German industrialists think they will get the energy from to power their industries?
Perhaps they have decided to give up on industry and become Trappist monks, relying on the generosity of others to keep them going brewing beer and selling eggs for income.
The greens will be thrilled.
Germany may well sink into third world utility service, you can rest assured Putin’s Russia will dig that coal out and do with it as they please, most likely paying German miners subsistence wages to dig it and German railroaders subsistence wages to move it. All while putting a pittance into Germany through taxes and tariffs. The “German Solution” has been trudging forward for decades, you don’t honestly think a True Son of Mother Russia such as Vladimir Putin will let this debt go uncollected, can you?
It is really not the problem for Germany that it seems to be. They will simply export pieces of paper (dollars, euros), which can be printed Ad infinitum, in exchange for electricity imported from neighbouring countries. People for some reason seem to place value on these pieces of paper, willingly accepting them in exchange for tangible goods and services. When that doesn’t work anymore, and that time will come, one can always simply “annex” those neighboring regions that had the fore site to build nuclear power stations.
Actually, this is excellent news for the US! With such an aggressive plan to eliminate both nuclear and coal, there is an excellent chance that by 2030 (just 11 years from now) Germany will have demonstrated their folly for all the world to see.
Since things in the US are moving much slower in that same direction, there’s now a great chance that seeing Germany’s great “experiment” fail in practice, the US can reverse its own “green” trend so that we’ve only wasted several $trillions on this path, inside of hundreds of $trillions.
And, yes, by 2030 the US should still have enough natural gas and CCGT equipment to send to Germany so that we can once again rebuild their (energy) infrastructure.
Look at a wind resource potential map for Germany. It has been well known for many years that Germany’s wind potential is low, very spotty. Given their northerly latitude, solar hasn’t much of a chance either. So I guess they are leaving themselves no options but to rejoin the reemergent USSR, and tossing in western Germany to boot.
You haven’t accomplished one damn thing yet, except compose an inane virtue-signaling bloviation indicating vast ambition with half-vast preparation, for public consumption. Before you shut down even the first coal-fired power plant you need to find a replacement, and your “Energiewende” has proven that unreliables are not a replacement.
“Do. Or do not. There is no try.” – Yoda.
Hitler and Merkel; two leaders with totally different objectives but a similar outcome – the destruction of their own nation and most of Europe. Artillery for Adolph, energiewende and unfettered Muslim immigration for Angela. At least after Hitler both Germany and Europe recovered. Merkel has done a real snow job though – Eurabia will be thanking her for many a long millennia. She’ll take the cake for most influential leader in history. No one would’ve predicted that when she came to power.
Just like their relatives in the UK, Anglo Saxon Celtic, are very slow to anger, unlike the French, but when they do get pushed too far they fight.
Look at the movie footage of the 1920 tes and even the early 1930 before Hitler came along, plenty of street fighting. Mercle and her Green successor will not last. Germany as with many other parts of the EU is slowly going to the right politically.
I doubt if it will even get to brown outs, but it will put a big strain on the massive EU Grid system, so expect other countries in Europe to either cut Germany off the Grid, or tell her to stop this
nonsense
The big industries will also get involved , and the result will be a right wing political party.
Its very unlikely that this could produce another Hitler, but certainly a far better Leader will emerge, perhaps a German TRUMP.
MJE
The “full story” does not explain what will replace coal-fired electricity generation.
Just look at the extremes to which people have been driven because of the Climategate charlatan’s lies about CAGW being real. Talk about a small group of people screwing things up royally! They aren’t just screwing Germany up, they are screwing the whole world up.
To German citizens: Those Climategate Charlatans that have deceived your leaders and driven them mad with delusions of CO2 catastrophe, have names. You ought to sue them for damages.
The problem with the Germans is that they are smart, hard working and stubborn. Avoid going to war against them if at all possible.
This leads to , when things are tanking, an unwillingness to abandon sunk costs and change course.
This is going to get interesting. That 73% are in favor of the coal phaseout just means that the German eduction system has become as terrible as those in Australia and the US. There is very little technical knowledge among the populations.
Good luck with that-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/power-cuts-‘australians-should-be-outraged-by-this’/ar-BBSONcY
but perhaps Germans really want to relive the ‘good old days’ according to no prizes for guessing-
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/warmists-really-want-you-to-suffer/news-story/cac7aaeb2807be26eb4185b7ab023d0f
Personally guys I’d refresh the memory about Napoleon and Stalingrad and all that snow and cold before you go reminiscing about blackouts and war time. Don’t listen to these Greenshirt masochists.
The “Climate crisis” zombies were out in force in Europe. https://www.breitbart.com/news/tens-of-thousands-protest-in-france-belgium-over-climate-crisis/
Makes me wish they would be hit with the worst cold snap they have ever seen.
For the next 12 years in a row until they find out what acually is worse than they thought.
They are at 40% renewable already… with no problems and no grid shut downs.
An awfully large amount of German electricity from conventional power plants is currently exported (it has been keeping France lit up over the past few years while their reactors have seen major shut downs).
They are only just starting on their major north/south HVDC grid improvements, needed to ship solar north and wind power south…
their offshore wind programme and interconnectors to e.g Norway are continuing apace.
Really, there is no problem here… and their plans will I’m sure include reskilling and re-employment of displaced power workers.
As usual Griff lies: “Really, there is no problem here”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/instability-in-power-grid-comes-at-high-cost-for-german-industry-a-850419.html
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/germanys-green-energy-destabilizing-electric-grids/
2013 date on that article. The situation has changed since – and the predictions did NOT come true
The aluminium plant outage was an near unique event… if I remember rightly there was a problem when that occurred from the post Fukushima nuclear shutdown
The export to e.g Polish grid issue is resolved.
Keep repeating that story to yourself, griff. Someone has to believe it.
Too bad the original goal to phase out all coal plants by 2030 didn’t pass. The faster phase out would crash the grid earlier so other nations, like Scotland and Australia, might rethink their own suicide pacts before their own grid collapses.
Mid january we have been near a collaps as the frequecy was down to 49.8 Hz
source
source
I do expect such statements on a regular basis.
Bookmark the source and you can follow….
Done.
Must be nice, griff, in that alternate reality you live in.
Much easier to talk the talk than walk the walk. I’ll believe it when I see it.
https://energytransition.org/2013/11/german-power-is-coal-for-export/
German coal based power exports…
Griff, I have no idea where you live, but certainely not in reality 😀
One of our problems is the money we have to pay for our electricity bills, the second the resulting prices of products calculating these bills in their product prices ans than the fear of the unssen “chance” of blackout.
I don’t know where you live either. The quote above from you doesn’t make it clear. but I don’t see that it represents an renewable or green grid issue. and I note that increasing use of grid storage specifically for frequency response will mitigate this sort of problem.
I live in Germany and see and feel the consequences of Green policy.
Hugs January 28, 2019 at 12:21 am
The west rebuilt germany in their own image, only better. The Marshall Plan. We didn’t take away anything
Millions of Germans would have starved in the years after WW II without the efforts of the Allies, and in particular the US. The Germans are smart and industrious but without the massive help from the Marshall plan they would not be nearly where they are today. Anyone that was around during the time of the wall and saw the difference between East and West would know that.
But the Marshall plan wasn’t all about helping Germany for the sake of the Germans. It’s prime purpose, the real justification for the massive expenditure of US wealth in helping to rebuild, was preventing a fertile ground for Communism to grow in and thus prevent the expansion of Stalin’s power to the west. West Germany was to be the stopper and it was, but not nearly to the extent envisioned by Marshall and the other architects of the plan. Thus I and millions of other Americans, spent parts of our lives in West Germany s part of the massive US military presence there long after the formal occupation ended right up into the 1990s. And over all those years millions more how were not stationed there spent a month or so there during the annual Reforger exercises when whole Divisions deployed for war games to Germany.
During my 8 1/2 years on teams in 10th SFG(A) I was stationed in Germany for three and on TDY in Germany for over a year more. Loved it. But it seems the Germany now is not the Germany I knew.
Anyone that was around during the time of the wall and saw the difference between East and West would know that.
Guess where Merkel comes from ?
Source
Some say she is IM “Erika”, an alleged Stasi-informer and collaborationist. Putin knows it all.
Interesting. I have never seen a country commit suicide before.
It has not happenned since the Western Roman Empire paid the Visigoth leader Alaric a fortune in gold to NOT attack Rome. So he took the gold and attacked Rome, and that was the end of the Western Roman Empire.
Many people think this merely represented a change in administration, but it did not. The social system collapsed, with everything from agriculture to water to transport no longer functioning, and so 60% of the population died out in less than a generation. It was the greatest calamity Europe had ever seen – much worse than the Black Death.
Could this happen to Germany? I think it could – a UK government study in the 80s (lots of strikes then) concluded the nation was never more than 10 days away from revolution. That is how long it takes for the population to realise there is no more food in the shops, and they take to the streets.
Just think of the effects of a large midwinter anticyclone over Germany. No electricity production for two weeks, and no storage facilities for electricity. Nothing would work. No water, transport, food, heating – nothing would work. But there would be plenty of angry people on the streets…..
R
ralfellis
“a UK government study in the 80s (lots of strikes then) concluded the nation was never more than 10 days away from revolution. ”
Don’t believe that one for a minute. Stationed in Germany Dec. 1986 to Dec. 1989. TDY there several times before that starting in 1982. Spent time all over West Germany, including West Berlin. Trained with their Army and tactical units of their police. Spent time in every major city of the country.
You think a starving nation will not revolt??
R
NO, but I KNOW that the West German nation never came close to starving in the 80s.
I read that as a hypothetical — *if* the Germans were cut off from the outside, the resources on hand would empty out quickly and reach revolution-state in ten days. West Germany never was isolated, so the fact that they couldn’t feed themselves didn’t really matter outside the few years immediately after WWII.
Whether the hypothetical is true is a separate question. I can well believe resources in Germany could exhaust quickly, given dependencies on outside food — but that’s true in many, many countries, and as the example of Venezuela shows moving from prosperity to privation neither makes revolution fast or easy in the face of armed forces, especially with a disarmed populace.
Kind of tough to isolate Germany that way with borders with seven other free countries, if you count Luxomburg. And as for revolt due to starvation in a police state? During WW II the bulk of the civil population of Japan were below mere subsistence level from the middle of 1942 on and it only got worse as the war progressed. it wasn’t much better for their Army in China either. Most of the offensives in China from 1942 onward were aimed in large part at procuring more rice. Of course Japan is kind of a unique case due to it’s culture.
>>but I KNOW that the West German nation never
>>came close to starving in the 80s.
I was talking about Britain, which did come close to starvation, with the 3-day week.
And this analysis of the UK applies to most if not all nations – a starving nation will always end up in revolt. And if Germany loses electricity for two weeks, it will be on the edge of starvation and revolt.
R
In fact during the 4+ years I spent in Germany in the 80s I can’t remember coming across a single person begging in the street. I don’t remember a single person looking malnourished. Not even the Turk squatters that I saw which made up the largest portion of the illegal immigrants there at the time begged or looked malnourished. Nope the biggest hassle on the streets of the major Germany cities that I remember were the gals working the “Erocenters” trying to drag my ass in there to buy overpriced drinks and….. well, you know.
Duh…. This was a UK study, about the UK.
Can’t you read….?
R
ralfellis,
“Interesting. I have never seen a country commit suicide before. ”
May I suggest a look at Caracas?
Auto
On the list of the top 10 countries with proven coal reserves, Germany is 6th. https://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-the-worlds-biggest-coal-reserves-by-country/
I don’t see this as being a specifically German problem. Scotland is in the same position, if not worse. Our saving grace is that we are connected to the rest of the UK, so when the turbines stop the lights don’t go out. I dread to think what will happen to our electricity supplies if there’s a decision to go independent.
This insanity is even affecting France, where the nuclear capacity means there is no need for wind turbines.
No, it’s a more general problem in that politicians have been convinced by crafty wind turbine seller adverts. Adverts that conflate the market penetration of renewables with success of wind turbines when the real success has been with hydro and biomass, that quote electricity figures as if they were total energy figures, that cherry-pick performance over short favourable intervals.
Politicians need to be shown the real facts:
-That wind turbines actually provide only a fraction of a percent of world energy, and that after over 20 years of development.
-That outages are too long to be covered by any feasible battery or pumped storage capacity.
-That performance claims quoting electricity generation only are irrelevant if the intention is to make transport and heating electric. In that case, total energy is what matters.
-That a comparison of expenditure and energy replaced over the last decade suggests that it will cost the world $200 trillion USD to go 100% renewable by the wind/solar route, and that’s not including the cost of energy storage systems, smart grids or the like.
Perhaps if we had a letter writing campaign, we might get this message across?
You must be one of the few Scots I’ve encountered who have their eyes open.
I rarely meet anyone who thinks that we’re heading towards serious problems.
People just don’t seem to understand or care, and swallow the green propaganda quite happily.
The trouble with Scotland is that the SNP government are in hock to the Greens for their political support.
They want also to shut our two remaining nukes at Hunterston (already in trouble with graphite problems) and Torness, and there’s a moratorium on fracking.
If they succeed in doing that we’ll be left with only the gas plant at Peterhead.
You’re right about being connected to England as our saving grace, without that we’d be stuffed.
The figures for the interconnection make interesting reading.
I’m seriously considering moving out of Edinburgh for my retirement, so I can have a house
with an LPG tank for my heating which can also be used to fuel a generator.
About 50 years ago, I can remember my mother’s friend in Shetland finally getting rid of the diesel generator in her shed, as the mains power had become reliable enough.
Seems like we might be going backwards.
Like you, I worry that political independence for Scotland will be an energy policy disaster.
Letter writing campaign? Sign me up.
you aren’t paying attention to tha actual situation on the ground in Scotland. which is at 68% of electricity fdemand met…
https://www.scottishrenewables.com/forums/renewables-in-numbers/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/renewable-energy-electricity-wind-wave-scotland-climate-change-oil-gas-a8283166.html
And yes, Scotland will remain connected to other countries… including Norway through a new HVDC connection.
There is much tidal turbine, wave and pumped storage capacity in Scotland still to be tapped…
In Oz for many years we referred to the VW beetle as Hitler’s revenge.
I guess it is now reasonable to refer to Angela Merkel as Stalin’s revenge.