Germany totally kills coal – will likely end up in the dark, without heat and light

From the LA times, a bold move, but unlikely they can pull it off.

Jaenschwalde power station in Germany, 2010 Photo:Wikipedia

Germany to close all 84 of its coal-fired power plants, will rely primarily on renewable energy

Germany, one of the world’s biggest consumers of coal, will shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years to meet its international commitments in the fight against climate change, a government commission said Saturday.

The announcement marked a significant shift for Europe’s largest country — a nation that had long been a leader on cutting CO2 emissions before turning into a laggard in recent years and badly missing its reduction targets. Coal plants account for 40% of Germany’s electricity, itself a reduction from recent years when coal dominated power production.

“This is an historic accomplishment,” said Ronald Pofalla, chairman of the 28-member government commission, at a news conference in Berlin following a marathon 21-hour negotiating session that concluded at 6 a.m. Saturday. The breakthrough ended seven months of wrangling. “It was anything but a sure thing. But we did it,” Pofalla said. “There won’t be any more coal-burning plants in Germany by 2038.”

The plan includes some $45 billion in spending to mitigate the pain in coal regions. The commission’s recommendations are expected to be adopted by Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government.

The decision to quit coal follows an earlier bold energy policy move by the German government, which decided to shut down all of its nuclear power plants by 2022 in the wake of Japan’s Fukushima disaster in 2011.

The initial targets are considerable, calling for a quarter of the country’s coal-burning plants with a capacity of 12.5 gigawatts to be shut down by 2022. That means about 24 plants will be shut within the first three years. By 2030, Germany should have about eight coal-burning plants remaining, producing 17 gigawatts of electricity, the commission said.

full story here

0 0 votes
Article Rating
306 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Jimmy
January 27, 2019 12:18 pm

An absolutely horrific plan.

Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 12:49 pm

Putin is laughing all the way to Gazprom bank.
http://www.gazprom.com/projects/nord-stream2/

Sara
Reply to  vukcevic
January 27, 2019 4:05 pm

Just a question here: a few weeks ago, WUWT said that Germany had increased coal mining. (Don’t remember the exact date.)

What happened to that? Is it all going to export?

This bit of news tonight is possibly THE stupidest thing I have seen come out of Deutschland in a very, very long time.

They’ll be sorry. … really, really sorry.

Mat
Reply to  Sara
January 27, 2019 4:14 pm

They export goal..

Bryan A
Reply to  Mat
January 27, 2019 6:45 pm

If they keep at it, Germany’s greatest export will be their economy

Non Nomen
Reply to  Sara
January 27, 2019 10:55 pm

Just a question here: a few weeks ago, WUWT said that Germany had increased coal mining.

They shut down the last hard coal mines once and for good, but the opened lignite mines instead.

A C Osborn
Reply to  Sara
January 28, 2019 3:03 am

Sarah, you are correct and someone needs to tell their Energy Minister Peter Altmaier about this plan.
see
https://www.thegwpf.com/green-no-more-germany-delays-coal-exit-indefinitely/

Shawn Marshall
Reply to  vukcevic
January 28, 2019 5:08 am

Everyday it becomes clearer how the great German nation fell under the spell of the Little Corporal.

Orson
Reply to  Shawn Marshall
January 28, 2019 7:00 pm

is, delusions and fantasies.

jgfox
Reply to  Shawn Marshall
January 28, 2019 7:23 pm

Excellent comment!

Not only Germany but next “Das Welt”

some lonesome German
Reply to  vukcevic
February 4, 2019 12:11 pm

Coal and nuclear power will be replaced by natural gas. There are already gas power plants in germany, but they don’t work economically by now. Coal and nuclear power are still to cheap.
Why Trump has threatened to sanction European companies investing in Nord Stream 2, a pipeline wich is critisized as economically unfeasible?
[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream#Economic_aspects ]
I think it all will make sense, when German coal and nuclear power will be replaced by russian natural gas.

Why Germans don’t act? They don’t want to be treated as “nazis” (lose their jobs, get their cars burned,…).

2hotel9
Reply to  some lonesome German
February 5, 2019 6:44 am

You really think it is a good idea for European countries to become totally dependent on natural gas from Russia? Really?

Komrade Kuma
Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 1:39 pm

The blowback from the consequences of this venal, narcissistic idiocy will be akin to the advent of the Nazis.

The Germans have delivered us two world wars and subsequently just bludged off the US-UK underpinned NATO for its postwar security despite having more than enough capacity to pay its way let alone the expertise to maintain a formidable military capacity.

There is something just wrong with the German mindset. Arrogant and self important without judgement.

MarkG
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 27, 2019 1:54 pm

To be fair, Germany was an occupied nation for forty years after losing a devastating war that they started, then took in tens of millions of communists. They might need a bit of time to recover from that.

Thought it does rather look like they may have decided to commit suicide instead. Fortunately I don’t think I own anything that needs parts from Germany, because I doubt they’ll be available in a few years.

noop
Reply to  MarkG
January 27, 2019 5:39 pm

The germans are very sharp people. They will figure out after they shut down about half of those plants that it’s a really bad idea. I’m sure Putin likes the idea of Germany being more dependent on Russian natural gas though. That’s about all the Germans will have left. Putin will have them by the short hairs.

ThomasJK
Reply to  noop
January 28, 2019 3:37 am

Yeah…..But without reliable and abundant electrical power to power their economic endeavors, where do they get the money to pay Russia for the natural gas? And Petroleum?

Stephen Richards
Reply to  MarkG
January 28, 2019 12:59 am

They took ten years to integrate the east. Their numbers. The cost to their economy isn’t easily defined. The east had cheap labour but when that ran out mad merkel invited Africa and the middle east to join them and the rest of europe

Phoenix44
Reply to  Stephen Richards
January 28, 2019 3:48 am

East Germany did not have cheap labour, because they converted marks at one to one. Both Eat and West Germany had a demographic problem that pre-dated the fall of the Wall. I have worked with plenty of Germans (generally very nice and funny people) but hardly any have any children.

Zack aa
Reply to  Stephen Richards
January 29, 2019 12:14 pm

Kind of rude to invite everyone to your party then dump the punchbowl on the lawn.

Komrade Kuma
Reply to  MarkG
January 28, 2019 3:04 am

Yes, I accept they had a lot of rebuilding to do then reintegrate with the East but for the last decade or so they could readily have been ramping up their defence spending to the 2% mark.

There is nothing to have stopped them having a small, compact but high quality military that could at least appear to be solid with the US. Where were crack German troops in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia, Iraq 1990 etc? They have been taking soft options militarily and posturing morally.

some lonesome German
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
February 4, 2019 2:39 pm

If Germany invested all the social welfare for “guest workers” from southern europe and Turkey – to keep them in the NATO – instead in a powerful army, would you be really happier? I guess UK and Poland wouldn’d.

Malcolm Carter
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 27, 2019 2:02 pm

It’s not as if the data isn’t there. The following website shows the energy mix in Germany. This week note the small contribution by both wind and solar. On the night of January 24, the contribution
of wind is zero and solar of course is zero. Doubling the fleet will be 2 X 0 or 0 unreliable energy. If you look back on earlier weeks you can find periods of over two weeks on which wind is working at less than 10% of capacity. Imagine the increased number of wind turbines needed to over produce energy for a future two week lull. Imagine the batteries or pumped storage needed to store the energy for two weeks of German industry. Well maybe there won’t be that much industry.
It seems incredible to me that Germany does not see the dangers in their abandonment of fossil fuel and nuclear. Perhaps the plan is to become reliant on Gazprom. What could go wrong?

https://www.energy-charts.de/price.htm

BobM
Reply to  Malcolm Carter
January 27, 2019 6:48 pm

First Crimea, then Ukraine, then…

Germany already appears to be a nation that doesn’t even want to be able to defend itself…

Hugs
Reply to  BobM
January 28, 2019 12:21 am

Due to the WWII. You guys (allied) took the guts away, now Germany eats from the hand of Putin.

F.LEGHORN
Reply to  BobM
January 28, 2019 1:25 am

Hugs How did we do that? By defeating them? But either way we rebuilt them, too. Japan also. So don’t go blaming the Allies. They attacked, not us.

Hugs
Reply to  BobM
January 28, 2019 4:09 am

“You” didn’t beat them, the allied did manage to create a post WWII Germany in which thinking is gutted. The good communists completed the fathermurder so that poor guys still fear of being Natzists and try be so progressive.

I think this ‘fear’ of being an N drives Germany.

Grietver
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 27, 2019 3:49 pm

Germans have huge guilt about the war and that’s holding them back on creating a big army. A suicide-wish is a more likely explanation for the idiocy.

Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 27, 2019 4:45 pm

They are moving towards the same situation as they were in during the 1920s. Economic collapse, which leads to serious political polarization about what to do for it. We are seeing both in their early stages – the watermelons on the Left, opposed by AfD on the Right. Although neither one is quite as radical and violent as their counterparts of a century ago, they are going to move that way as the economy dies.

Much the same in France, Italy, most other European nations.

goldminor
Reply to  Writing Observer
January 27, 2019 5:53 pm

They might not be as radical and violent as back then, but once a certain threshold is passed people can go full postal with surprising ease. There are many such examples in history of that. Then there is only one way forward, destroy the other side.

Andy in Epsom
Reply to  Writing Observer
January 28, 2019 4:41 am

I went to Rome last November and one of the days I went to Ostia. I was absolutely stunned at the level of graffiti praising Hitler and decrying the levels of immigration. There is a bonfire being built in Europe that will inevitably erupt in the not too distant future that will be talked about for as long as we have talked about WWII.

Wally
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 27, 2019 6:44 pm

Think again. You come off like the indoctrinated AOC.

‘Responsibility for WW2’ https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7544
and:
Who started bombing civilians first:Germany or Great Britain https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8172
and:
Operation Barbarossa Was A Preventive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999
and:
WWI Forum
https://forum.codoh.com/viewforum.php?f=27

Phoenix44
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 3:50 am

Yeah, yeaah. And Mein Kampf was not in any way what Hitler meant, long before he came to power and then did what he said he would do. It’s not Germany’s fault at all.

Just absurd fantasies.

Non Nomen
Reply to  Phoenix44
January 28, 2019 4:22 am

It’s not Germany’s fault at all.

So it is not the fault of the American voters at all that O’bummer got elected twice?

Andy in Epsom
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 4:43 am

If you want to know more about who attacked civilians first then go and talk to the survivors from Poland who miraculously escaped the Nazi death squads in the late 30’s, Long before the war even began !!!

Chris Foskett
Reply to  Andy in Epsom
February 1, 2019 4:29 pm

For Europeans WW2 began in September 1939 when Germany invaded Poland…..

Bob boder
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 8:56 am

Wally

You are off your rocker! Spend just little time reading 1st order material and not spin doctoring. I would suggest you start with Hitlers own words. But 6 million dead jews and at least as many eastern europeans in labor camps and death camps should give you the basic idea of Hitlers actual views.
By the way the similarities between Hitlers use of Jews as the focal point of hatred for all the supposed ills that the German people had suffered is eerily similar to the lefts blaming of white males for all the supposed sins in the world.

2hotel9
Reply to  Bob boder
January 28, 2019 9:12 am

The difference is white males in America will not surrender their weapons and meekly walk into the death camps.

RG
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 1:30 pm

I’m always fascinated by arguments over who bombed civilians first. The funny part (not) is you’re talking about the wrong war. I don’t know who did it first, but civilians were being bombed from the air in 1915.

2hotel9
Reply to  RG
January 29, 2019 11:17 am
Patrick healy
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 27, 2019 11:47 pm

Wait a minute though.
Picture this. In a fairly typical freezing mid winter Germany (insert name of country) the wind is not blowing and the Sun is not shining, and Mr Putin decides the Germans can have his gas at double the price.
After a few million Germans have frozen to death the remaining grown ups tell the idiots in charge where to go. End of the global warming farce.
Or am I wishing on a star? By

Clive08
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 28, 2019 2:41 am

There is one big thing wrong with the German mindset Kuma, Murkle!cl

Russ Wood
Reply to  Komrade Kuma
January 29, 2019 1:08 am

About a hundred years ago, a British (?) politician said that “The German is either at your feet or at your throat”. Exchange ‘throat’ for ‘economy’, and consider just WHO is running the EU, and you may sympathise with that speaker…

js
Reply to  Russ Wood
January 29, 2019 8:05 am

Good thing Britain is getting out of this mess just in time.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 1:44 pm

To whom? Germans? If they are in their right minds, which is clearly not a majority of Germans.

To me? No, I don’t care for Germany or Germans. It serves them right to suffer. I believe that the move will cause immense suffering, and will serve as a salutary example of the foolishness that warmunism has engendered.

“Example is the school of mankind, and they will learn at no other.”
Edmund Burke, Letter i. On a Regicide Peace. Vol. v. p. 331.
http://www.bartleby.com/100/276.41.html

Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 27, 2019 8:29 pm

Agreed. It will be a laboratory of leftist ideas turned into reality, as if the world needed another example. Will they be able to carry this plan through to its 19-year completion? Or at some point will the privations foisted upon the German people lead to such strong political opposition that the current government policy must be stopped (likely accompanied by a declaration that they have “won” the climate war)? How much higher will electricity rates go? Will their economy suffer as most here anticipate? Will there be political upheaval? We will be watching with interest.

Santa
Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 2:49 pm

Well The German people hve maney years in elections to change that?

Old England
Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 3:17 pm

God help them, Putin will be laughing his head off if Germany plan to use Gas to paper over the unreliables cracks.

The EU reliance on Russian gas will ensure they darent complain or act next time Putin decides to “liberate” more of the Ukraine or somewhere else on the EU’s borders or in the Baltics.

Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 5:46 pm

“This is an historic accomplishment”,

True, A plan that will starve, impoverish and freeze all good germans, (and bad ones).

Cheers

Roger

http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com

Charles Higley
Reply to  Jimmy
January 27, 2019 8:15 pm

What could possibly go wrong? What renewables will be taking the place of these plants? What back up do they plan to have or have they decided that having backup is too pessimistic?

Bill Powers
Reply to  Jimmy
January 28, 2019 4:35 am

A plan put in place “in the fight against climate change”

Think about that for a second. It is like saying you are going to fight the wind blowing or the sun coming up. Hey I have an idea. How about cutting off you head to fight hair loss or sinus problems. It would certainly cure blindness.

Shawn Marshall
Reply to  Bill Powers
January 28, 2019 5:13 am

Hah.

Andy Pattullo
January 27, 2019 12:20 pm

I guess maybe they decided to run the economy entirely without reliable electricity (no nuclear, no coal), that should work, right?

William Abbott
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
January 27, 2019 12:37 pm

No! It will not work. The policy be reversed before its fully implemented. Intermittent electric power will not be tolerated by the voters.

Non Nomen
Reply to  William Abbott
January 27, 2019 1:36 pm

As it seems now, the green blob is on the rise. These Green Godfathers of pc will see that the will of the voters will be wilfully ignored.

Old England
Reply to  Non Nomen
January 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Like they’re trying to do with Brexit .

AndyE
Reply to  William Abbott
January 27, 2019 2:25 pm

Yes, there will be postponements after postponements. Don’t forget they have made many such decisions over the last 20 years – always to be delayed or forgotten about.

Dave Fair
Reply to  AndyE
January 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Please note that in their announcement, they confused “voted to” with “accomplished.”

lee
Reply to  Dave Fair
January 27, 2019 5:41 pm

And “accomplished” is once it is achieved, not at the commencement announcement.

Reply to  Dave Fair
January 27, 2019 8:31 pm

Classic virtue signalling.

Hugs
Reply to  AndyE
January 28, 2019 12:17 am

Like Sweden decided to close nuclear power plants in 1980. As a result, they have more than doubled the production of nuclear power.

comment image

The production was about 60-70 TWh in 2017. (for some reason, the article in Wikipedia is somewhat outdated. Maybe the little activists are lacking energy?)

Hivemind
Reply to  William Abbott
January 27, 2019 5:10 pm

Maybe they saw the ‘excellent’ examples provided by South Australia and Victoria this week and thought that they would emulate them?

griff
Reply to  Hivemind
January 28, 2019 12:53 am

Neither of which had problems caused by renewables or a green grid, but problems entirely due to climate related extreme weather!

tobyglyn
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 1:23 am

griff
January 28, 2019 at 12:53 am

“Neither of which had problems caused by renewables or a green grid, but problems entirely due to climate related extreme weather!”

Hardly.

“It’s being billed as wildly extreme, but Melbourne officially peaked at 42.8C. Bob Fernley-Jones looked back at the long Melbourne Regional Office data going back to 1855, and found around 30 corrected “50″ examples of a day of 42C or more. Days like this are one-in-3-year-event. This is summer in Melbourne. It’s not rare and any half-competent planner would plan accordingly.

As Bob points out the highest spikes in Jan ’39 and Feb 2009 are arguably outliers “resulting from freakish hot northerlies (and the most terrible Victorian bushfires). If they are waived as outliers, then for the rest of the record from 1855 it’s all pretty dam flat?”

http://joannenova.com.au/2019/01/melbourne-200000-houses-blacked-out-10-companies-curtailed-as-1-in-5-year-hot-day-hits/

Phoenix44
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 3:54 am

So not having enough power from wind because wind doesn’t always blow is a problem because of Climate Change? What?

Australia gets hot and always has done. This week hasn’t been near an actual record, just near BOM’s records, which only go back to 1910.

Try some facts with your propaganda once in a while.

Bob boder
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 8:59 am

Griff

can’t you just go away again? your drivel is no less annoying than it used to be.

Bryan A
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 9:57 am

griff

January 28, 2019 at 12:53 am

Neither of which had problems caused by renewables or a green grid, but problems entirely due to climate related extreme weather!

Which only stands to prove that renewbles can’t provide the needed energy in today’s climate.
Coal, Gas, Nuclear would have had no problems supplying the necessary MWh needed to supply the uptick in demand created by the summer temperatures. Renewables (Unreliables) Not So Much.
Griff…Would you agree then that, given the current state of the climate, reliables are far more necessary than renewables for supplying the energy required to keep society cool during hot summer months?

Red94ViperRT10
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 12:05 pm

Ummmm… hardly extreme:

http://joannenova.com.au/2019/01/melbourne-200000-houses-blacked-out-10-companies-curtailed-as-1-in-5-year-hot-day-hits/

Not only can we expect more of the same from time to time, S.A. already got more of the same in the past, from time to time. Try another excuse.

Jeff
Reply to  William Abbott
January 27, 2019 5:54 pm

The article says
“The initial targets are considerable, calling for a quarter of the country’s coal-burning plants with a capacity of 12.5 gigawatts to be shut down by 2022. That means about 24 plants will be shut within the first three years. ”
and
“An opinion poll by ZDF television Friday showed 73% of Germans are in favor of a speedy phase-out.”

So who knows ?
If the German people put their mind to something, they are a very powerful force,
whether misguided or not, I can’t say.

Sommer
Reply to  Jeff
January 28, 2019 6:48 am

“An opinion poll by ZDF television Friday….”

Do we know if the poll taken was reliable?

Non Nomen
Reply to  Sommer
January 28, 2019 7:43 am

ZDF, Zweites Deutsches Fernsehen, has a bad reputation for government unindependent MSM journalism.
Steffen Seibert, government spokesman since 2010, was before that, lo and behold, a journo and news anchorman with the ZDF. Hôni soit qui mal y pense.

A C Osborn
Reply to  William Abbott
January 28, 2019 1:57 am

No, not the Voters, their Industry, their wealth generators.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
January 27, 2019 12:52 pm

Maybe replaced by Russian gas?

JEHill
Reply to  Dave Fair
January 27, 2019 12:55 pm

LNG is not renewable and it is fossil fuel…

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  JEHill
January 27, 2019 1:46 pm

Yes, but Germany wants to surrender to Russia, and this is a way to do it.

John
Reply to  JEHill
January 27, 2019 1:48 pm

Natural Gas is renewable…sort of. It is being produced at a landfill near us.

michael hart
Reply to  JEHill
January 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Whats’ that got to do with anything? Germany can’t function without either coal, or gas, or nuclear. They have to choose one. The alternative is death by renewables.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  michael hart
January 27, 2019 2:29 pm

Don’t discount the possibility that they want to die. One symptom is the birth rate among ethnic Germans which is well below replacement.

Ron
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
January 27, 2019 3:03 pm

It really doesn’t matter what the Germans do as we only have 12 years left to avoid Armageddon! (sarc)

Old England
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
January 27, 2019 3:23 pm

And they’re signed up to the EU directive that means only electric vehicles can be sold in Germany after 2030 ……… be interesting to see how fast the German economy crashes and burns then when everything is ‘powered’ by renewables…

Thank God the UK is meant to be leaving the EU in a few weeks

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Old England
January 27, 2019 4:09 pm

The UK will be so much better off without the EU millstone around its neck.

Patrick healy
Reply to  Old England
January 27, 2019 11:53 pm

Whilst I agree with “thank God we are leaving the EU” just stop and think what the British rulers have in store with their global warming agenda.
It is every bit a stupid as the Germans. And we have ZERO opposition to the hare brained globalists.

PmhinSC
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
January 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Since they are next door to France’s 72% nuclear power, perhaps they plan on France to keeping them supplied with electricity.

Dave Fair
Reply to  PmhinSC
January 27, 2019 4:46 pm

They only need to bring money.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  PmhinSC
January 27, 2019 4:49 pm

Poland will take revenge and invade Germany with coal power.

Asp
Reply to  PmhinSC
January 27, 2019 5:22 pm

This may explain the recent lovey-dovey interaction between Mama Merkel and little boy Marcon.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Asp
January 28, 2019 4:14 am

All over the Australian MSM like a rash, as if it will make a difference!

griff
Reply to  PmhinSC
January 29, 2019 12:54 am

In fact Germany has been propping up France, where safety issues closed many reactors and extensive maintenance is needed on the country’s aging reactors…

https://www.ecowatch.com/france-nuclear-power-shut-down-2086414462.html

Germany also supports France during high demand
https://www.erneuerbareenergien.de/archiv/german-power-exports-to-france-increasing-150-482-33036.html

JEHill
Reply to  griff
January 29, 2019 5:18 am

Great! Both economies and countries will collapse.

Trevor
Reply to  griff
January 29, 2019 8:14 am

Meanwhile, in reality, France is doing just fine, buying only minimal amounts from Germany: https://www.electricitymap.org/?page=country&solar=false&remote=true&wind=false&countryCode=FR

“nuclear specialist at Greenpeace Germany”

Now that’s an oxymoron.

Al Miller
January 27, 2019 12:22 pm

I see history repeating itself here…”Germans sadly follow a lunatic leader into (green) hell”. This will not end well for Germans. “Leaders” showboat and virtue signal while population suffers and pays and pay and pay…

Tom Halla
January 27, 2019 12:26 pm

I would hope whoever succeeds Merkei will have more sense, and do away with this madness.

Peter Charles
Reply to  Tom Halla
January 27, 2019 2:30 pm

Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer is her annointed successor in the CDU and could become Chancellor. She has somewhat waffled on energy policy but is reportedly anti coal and anti nuclear, but pro gas and renewables while insistent that they must remain a world leader in implementing Paris.

Mike H
January 27, 2019 12:27 pm

Putin is counting his money while doing backflips over this news as Germany will become heavily dependent on Russian gas.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Mike H
January 27, 2019 12:34 pm

And more coal for everyone else.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Tom in Florida
January 27, 2019 2:30 pm

German coal, like German politics is very low grade and not worth digging or exporting.

kent beuchert
January 27, 2019 12:29 pm

Perhaps the dumbest move of all was shutting down the nuclear plants because of a very unusual set of circumstances that could never possibly occur in Germany, helped along by sloppy Japanese thinking in not providing local power back up. But then, who plans for a tsunami? The German
govt lacks the ability to understand even the basics. Of course making plans 11 years out is the easy part. By 2030, I expect most of the civilized world to be building small modular molten salt nuclear plants by the bucketful. These will doom a reneable Germany to the same high energy costs disdvantages of her industry, causing any still around by that time to leave. GErmany’s power costs are already close to those of wind-crazy Denmark – the highest in Europe. Plenty of German companies have set sail for the U.S. due to energy costs. Probably also the reason BMW has expanded their factory in South Carolina , now the largest BMW plant in the world. And South Carolina is 60% + nuclear power.

Sam Pyeatte
Reply to  kent beuchert
January 27, 2019 1:19 pm

Well, the Germans once thought it would be a good idea to invade Russia in the winter…with a 2500 mile supply line…that went well. Lets face it, those Germans can really be wacky people.

William Astley
Reply to  Sam Pyeatte
January 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Roughly transporting the ‘natural’ gas 2500 miles uses roughly 35% of the energy content of the gas transported which significantly reduces the benefit of burning natural gas over coal.

Transporting gas uses significantly more energy than transporting a liquid or a solid.

P.S. The largest reserve of natural gas in Europe is found in Germany. Of course the green idiots hate fracking almost as much as the burning of coal.

Phil Rae
Reply to  William Astley
January 27, 2019 8:45 pm

William Astley

I’m curious about your numbers, William. Are you saying pipeline transmission of natural gas uses the equivalent of ~35% of the intrinsic energy of the transported product? That doesn’t sound very credible to me – it sounds way high – so I’d like to know where that figure came from please. Can you provide a source please? Thanks!

Curious George
Reply to  Sam Pyeatte
January 27, 2019 5:17 pm

Operation Barbarossa started on June 22. You probably live in NZ or AU.

jeff
Reply to  Curious George
January 27, 2019 6:15 pm

Napoleon’s French invasion of Russia began on 24 June 1812.
Maybe the next one should be pencilled in for a Spring kick off.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Curious George
January 27, 2019 8:38 pm

And it was wildly successful initially.

otsar
Reply to  Curious George
January 28, 2019 12:30 pm

And do not forget what happened to the Swedish invaders prior to Napoleon. Even Tammerlane had difficulties in the forests north of Kiev. General winter seems to always step in to complicate the day.

Wally
Reply to  Sam Pyeatte
January 27, 2019 6:49 pm

You’re highly leftist “History Channel” indoctrinated.

Operation Barbarossa Was A Pre-Emptive Attack https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7999

A C Osborn
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 2:04 am

So was the invasion of Poland LOL.
Fancy someone quoting revisionism.

Phoenix44
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 3:56 am

Or just history as most of us know it. There is zero evidence that Stalin had any plans to attack Germany.

drednicolson
Reply to  Phoenix44
January 28, 2019 7:43 am

Stalin doubted than the non-aggression pact would last and did order some limited war preparations, but the sheer scale of Op.Barbarossa still caught the Soviets off-guard.

After the siege of Malta failed, the Axis oil supply from N.Africa started to dwindle as Malta-based Allied bombers harassed the tanker convoys. Hitler needed oil and the closest known sources were in Soviet territory. I expect that was the main motivation for breaking the non-ag agreement and opening the eastern front.

Non Nomen
Reply to  drednicolson
January 28, 2019 8:07 am

Romania, by then a top-ranking oil producing country, was the backbone of the German oil industry. In the 1930ies, large chemical plants were built in Germany to generate oil from – coal. Leunawerke in Saxonia had by far the largest processing pants (Bergius method). Italian – Libyan oil was not even second – tier. Russian oil around the Caspian Sea and Baku had much higher prority. Erich von Manstein said to Hitler: “If we dont get the Baku oil, the war will be lost.”

Non Nomen
Reply to  Wally
January 28, 2019 5:17 am

Wally

It actually was. But the Germans didn’t know anything about that, as Goebbels admitted.
Musial, Bogdan: Kampfplatz Deutschland. Stalins Kriegspläne gegen den
Westen. Berlin: Propyläen 2008, 585 Seiten, 29,90 €
Suvorov, Viktor. Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War? (Viking Press/Hamish Hamilton; 1990) ISBN 0-241-12622-3

For the first book an in-deep knowledge of the German language is indispensable.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  kent beuchert
January 27, 2019 2:32 pm

“By 2030, I expect most of the civilized world to be building small modular molten salt nuclear plants by the bucketful. ”

Not if American liberals have anything to say about it. Who was it who said that giving clean cheap energy to people is like giving guns to children?

Tom Halla
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 27, 2019 3:30 pm

Paul Erhlich, in a publication put out by the anti-nuclear Abalone Alliance, claimed having cheap and unlimited power was like “giving an idiot child a machine gun”.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Tom Halla
January 27, 2019 4:13 pm

Thanks, Tom.

TheLastDemocrat
Reply to  Tom Halla
January 28, 2019 4:51 am

Giving Paul Ehrlich an audience is like giving a foolish child a machine gun.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 27, 2019 3:50 pm

American liberals won’t be running government anytime soon. They are moving farther left and are spending all their energy on trying to win the last election. Yeah they took over the House, but without having an honest retrospective on why they lost the election and reviewing their policies, all those citizens who finally got jobs and bigger paychecks will be increasing the vote for Republicans with also an increased support from African Americans.

The Trump phenomenon is also changing the R party, getting rid of the RINO repubs who’ve been living in the Swamp as paid up members of the DC elites. The rest of the world is waking up from the neomarxbrothers’ nightmare perpetrated by the same types. Brexit, Austria, Italy, Poland, the French gilêts jaunes riots, Brazil (I’m still hoping a little bit for our lost cousins in Australia), Canadian provinces are turfing out the left and Trudeau will be gone. India, China and a growing number of African countries are pushing out the the neocolonial agents of the elites and are going gangbusters on coal.

Germany is opting for the American model re energy with Russian gas as the main energy source’. It’s basically all over.

Mike Borgelt
Reply to  Gary Pearse
January 27, 2019 4:07 pm

Pelosi destroyed the Trump phenomenon.

Wally
Reply to  Mike Borgelt
January 27, 2019 6:52 pm

LOL

For a whole THREE WEEKS.

Get informed.

otsar
Reply to  Mike Borgelt
January 28, 2019 12:35 pm

She destroyed the Trump phenomenon in her fantasies. She is now the proud owner of the non-wall and the caravans.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Gary Pearse
January 27, 2019 4:12 pm

This is called whistling past the grave yard. As long as the Lefties have the media at their back, they start every election with a 5% lead.

Wally
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 27, 2019 7:04 pm

So that’s what happened in 2016?

Complete List of President Trump’s Accomplishments in the Two Years Since His Historic 2016 Election Win
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/here-it-is-complete-list-of-president-trumps-accomplishments-in-the-two-years-since-his-historic-2016-election-win/

Steve O
Reply to  Gary Pearse
January 28, 2019 4:31 am

Through illegal discrimination that nobody is doing anything about liberals have come to control education from K-12, and through university. Each graduating class is a little more liberal than the last.

Imagine if conservatives controlled education, how dominant would they be in the political arena? That’s how dominant liberals will soon be.

otsar
Reply to  Steve O
January 28, 2019 12:41 pm

I don’t know from where the idea that this movement is liberal came from, it is not. It appears to be a re-run if the Weimar republic. The progression and end point will probably be very similar.

Patrick healy
Reply to  kent beuchert
January 27, 2019 11:59 pm

But they are going to build Scalectric pretend cars powered by fairy dust and unicorn farts, not real grown up vehicles in Carolina.

John Endicott
Reply to  kent beuchert
January 28, 2019 5:44 am

There you go again (to quote President Reagan)

By 2030, I expect most of the civilized world to be building small modular molten salt nuclear plants by the bucketful

Why? The idea has been around for decades and nothing has come of it yet. While I would certainly love to see MSRs become a reality (assuming they’re everything they’re hyped to be) the fact that, to date, no one has succeeded in making them work to scale commercially suggest that a bit of caution in such gung-ho pronouncements is in order as so far all “modular molten salt nuclear plants” have been and continue to be is vaporware.

Non Nomen
Reply to  John Endicott
January 28, 2019 6:01 am

If research on MSR had been subsidized as heavily as wind and PV research, the story would look completely different. The Green Blob prevents such research successfully (for the sake of our children) and politicians follow suit obediently.

Rud Istvan
January 27, 2019 12:30 pm

So 28 fools voted to commit slow but literal suicide. Won’t be too many years before the ‘yellow vests’ come out in Germany, as they probably won’t willingly do so.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Rud Istvan
January 27, 2019 2:34 pm

They are Germans not French. French riot. Germans obey orders.

drednicolson
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 28, 2019 8:06 am

Do they obey orders to riot?

Non Nomen
Reply to  drednicolson
January 28, 2019 8:10 am

Disguise it as Oktoberfest and everything goes.

Jack Lifton
January 27, 2019 12:30 pm

How can 45 billion Euros allocated over 15 years mitigate the damage to millions of lives and to the skills of the soon to be former leading manufacturing technology nation on earth? The U.S. Spends that amount yearly in Afghanistan! Germany will under this plan lose its capability to make steel and copper (both require baseload power and steel making requires coal and coal byproducts). I guess the Germans will.import such materials from smelters and mills in less enlightened nations. Such was German exveptionalism (It sure wasn’t and isn’t in politics).

Wally
Reply to  Jack Lifton
January 27, 2019 7:14 pm

It’s all just more impossible leftist hot air.
In a year they’ll be quietly scrapping the whole absurd idea.

Germany’s economy is extremely export based, even the left knows that they will not get to steal more German taxpayers money if the economy crashes due to lack of sufficient energy.

Much ado about nothing.

Killer Marmot
January 27, 2019 12:31 pm

The plan to eliminate coal-burning plants as well as nuclear means that Germany will be counting on renewable energy to provide 65% to 80% of the country’s power by 2040.

I presume “renewable” means wind and solar. Stupid question: What happens should they get a cold snap in January and the wind stops blowing (as often happens on the coldest days)? Where does the electricity come from? What’s the plan?

Dave Fair
Reply to  Killer Marmot
January 27, 2019 8:36 pm

Tell me what goal you have in mind for 2040. I’ll give you a plan to get there. Just don’t ask me to guarantee that it will work (no skin in the game). I’ll have retired to Micronesia by then.

HotScot
Reply to  Killer Marmot
January 28, 2019 12:48 am

Killer Marmot

The only thing I can think of is that they import their electricity for those periods via Europe wide interconnectors, thereby simply displacing their CO2 emissions.

I mean this has been the plan all along hasn’t it, to create a United States of Europe.

I can’t help but wonder if this is simply a knee jerk reaction to their current failing CO2 emissions reduction policy. The problem is of course, that it failed for a reason and the 75% support for this will rapidly erode as electricity bills rise beyond the reach of all but the wealthiest.

Were I a younger man I would be very tempted to start selling domestic diesel generators in Germany.

David new Guy-Johnson
January 27, 2019 12:33 pm

It won’t happen

Joel O’Bryan
Reply to  David new Guy-Johnson
January 27, 2019 1:12 pm

New Guy,

“Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.”
― Stephen King, The Dark Tower

Anna Keppa
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 3:52 pm

My dad taught me that expression when I was a wee lass, long before King used it.

2hotel9
Reply to  Anna Keppa
January 27, 2019 4:01 pm

My grandfather,, in 1973, taught me that one, and I am pretty sure he learned it before the turning of the last century. Some wisdom is eternal.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Anna Keppa
January 27, 2019 4:51 pm

Actually, its “piss in the other.”

u.k.(us)
Reply to  David new Guy-Johnson
January 27, 2019 1:16 pm

Neither would they invade Russia.

BS
January 27, 2019 12:34 pm

What they keep quiet about is the fact that they rely on nuclear power generated across the border in the Czech Republic: http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/czech-republic.aspx

Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 12:41 pm

Germany’s Merkel has already flushed Germany’s cultural future via immigration
The last coal plant closure without nuclear build out will be the coup-de-grace

The harsh reality is that by the time the final coal plant closures hits, full Islamization of Germany’s legal and political systems will be in place. That’s not racist. Its the reality of differing birth rates between two very diffrent cultures in one land.

Joel O’Bryan
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 12:50 pm

And if the EU remains intact (I give that about a 5% chance), the children of those immigrants and their children will be full EU citizens able to move about anywhere in the EU to keep the islamization going. And you can bet that will happen as energy costs destroy living standards and jobs in Germany.

Joel O’Bryan
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 1:02 pm

And George Soros will be laughing his ass off in whatever depth of hell his evil soul is in by then. He’ll finally have his revenge on Germany’s Christians.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 8:44 pm

Merkle will Have accomplished what Suleiman could not.

jtom
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 1:21 pm

I guess it will all work out since many if them come from areas that do not have reliable power. Nothing to adjust to.
It just means the civilized world is shrinking. Oh, well, it was a good run.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 4:27 pm

Joel, the Germans are going to be switching to Russian gas, not renewables. They had relied on German ingenuity, a can-do self reliance and a societal beehive order and obedience to be the best at the new green society.

They failed and recognize that the big failure, that of their competitive industry and economy were next. The deal with Russia on gas is huge. If it weren’t, they wouldn’t be willing to court such American displeasure over this deal.

They had front-loaded their economy with supporting indigent EU members, opening their doors to hoards of more indigents and culture/society killing demographics on top of the green silliness. They are at a point similar to that of the devastation of their country wrought by themselves with the Second World War. Trump and Brexit were the catalyst, the kick in the A55 that re-engaged their brains.

I had written Germany off 15yrs ago not seeing anything that could save them. Now, I believe they can turn a corner. The Russians love and respect the Germans and both countries will be beneficiaries economically and industrially. Russia will in this way, also overcome the Western propagandized view of them put up by liberal elites and largely also bought into by the right.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
January 27, 2019 3:13 pm

At the present rate of immigration by Muslims and high birth rate, all of western and northern Europe will be under Sharia law by 2060. Eastern Europeans are more sensible. They realize the threat of Islam.

Robert of Ottawa
January 27, 2019 12:42 pm

Let`s see. Shut down nuclear; shut down coal; will natural gas be next. The Germans are suicidal.

Clay Sanborn
January 27, 2019 12:44 pm

The free market system, with environmental guidance from govt, should determine the natural direction energy production and pricing should go. When govt dictates what will happen, ruin is sure to follow. Will the people in Germany’s govt, that made these decisions, be held accountable – therein lies a huge problem.
Who is John Galt?

Walt D.
Reply to  Clay Sanborn
January 27, 2019 1:44 pm

As the woman said………….you can ignore reality, but you still suffer the consequences of ignoring reality.

This is problem of Climate Science being dogma based instead of evidence based.

Ian Magness
January 27, 2019 12:44 pm

This must get close to a perfect description of insanity. Given no coal or nuclear, limited gas and oil and no chance of solar power producing much for the great majority of the time, this only leaves windmills to power the economy. Yet, as the German grid engineers must have been telling their political masters until they were blue in the face, windmills are simply not fit-for-purpose for powering more than a small part of the electrical power grid of a developed nation. There are two reasons:
1) windmills need almost constant back-up by power stations using alternative energy sources (if there are any!) which, in turn, makes the whole ball-game hideously expensive; and
2) the physical properties of windmills mean that they only work well in winds between around 15mph and 50mph (not far above which they have to be shut down) and, even then, the significant sensitivity of the output between around 15mph and 30mph means that large output fluctuations inevitably occur, leaving grid engineers with major power planning headaches even at relatively low percentages of wind-driven power supply.
Anyone thinking they can run the bulk of the electrical infrastructure of a major developed economy with
windmills is living in cloud-cuckoo land.

taz1999
Reply to  Ian Magness
January 27, 2019 1:43 pm

I appreciate the cloud-cuckoo reference. And add; it’s an insult that anyone takes the name White Rose without understanding and respecting the historical context.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Ian Magness
January 27, 2019 3:34 pm

Intermittent renewables above 25 % penetration triples the cost assuming you have natural gas backup. Germany says they will buy hydro power from Norway when the wind doesn’t blow or the sun doesn’t shine. But this will entail huge costs of electricity degradation from long distance power losses. It also involves massive upgrading of Germany’s power infrastructure. If you don’t build natural gas plants as a backup then you will have power outages. Does Norway have enough hydro power to power all of German industry?

” In winter 2010/2011, Norwegian reservoir levels were extremely low, and in certain specific hours, electricity prices reached record levels after a long period of low temperatures and low inflow. However, the power supply system was able to meet demand. High prices were important in encouraging lower consumption, higher production and more import of electricity.”
https://energifaktanorge.no/en/norsk-energiforsyning/kraftproduksjon/

Based on that quote it seems the answer is unlikely.

With this plan Germany’s electricity costs will skyrocket. Since electricity is only 15% of total energy used in the economy, the CO2 emissions won’t go down much. So one questions why would a sane government do this? The only conclusion is that German leaders are insane.

Philo
Reply to  Ian Magness
January 27, 2019 4:53 pm

Their real plan is to import electricity from outside, perhaps even building plants in other countries. Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Czechia, and others will be glad to supply electricity from coal and gas. They’ll also continue to buy nuclear powered electricity from France.

They just might be able to make it work if they keep 8 or so coal plants as a ready reserve for a windless day or two.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Philo
January 27, 2019 4:57 pm

With enough money, you can accomplish just about anything, Philo. That doesn’t mean you can still sell BMW’s at a profit.

Jim M
Reply to  Dave Fair
January 27, 2019 7:56 pm

You can if you build them in S. Carolina where BMW is expanding their manufacturing plant. HQ in Germany, build everything somewhere else. Economic suicide.

Reg Nelson
Reply to  Jim M
January 28, 2019 12:25 pm

BMW also built a plant in Mexico rather than in South Carolina. The reason for this is EU has tariffs on vehicles built in US (at least at that time). Mexico has free trade agreement with the EU where the cars are sold.

Gordon Dressler
Reply to  Ian Magness
January 27, 2019 6:22 pm

“Those that don’t learn the lesson of South Australia are doomed to repeat it.” Apologies to Santayana.

Louis Hunt
January 27, 2019 12:45 pm

Are Germans so guilt ridden that they are determined to create their own holocaust by committing genocide against their own people?

Latitude
January 27, 2019 12:46 pm

does Putin have something on Merkel? Gazprom is dancing

Reply to  Latitude
January 27, 2019 1:23 pm

Doubt it, she was born in West, grew up and got chemistry PhD in the East, just coincidence that at the same time Putin was head of USSR operations there.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  vukcevic
January 27, 2019 2:42 pm

Merkel’s predecessor Gerhard Schroeder is chairman of the board of Nord Stream AG and of Rosneft, the Russian Gas company. What do you suppose Merkel’s next gig will be?

JEHill
January 27, 2019 12:49 pm

I am personally glad Germany is doing this. It will give the rest of the world a truly visceral and horrifying example of the Green Blob and World Government. I give them 2-5 years into the program until they invent some reason of slowing the closures and reopening either the nuclear or coal plants.

We can all count on the MSM for their ability to report on the outcome of this as honestly as it reported on the Socialist utopia of Venezuela…

DCE
Reply to  JEHill
January 27, 2019 1:53 pm

Germany can act as an object lesson, showing the reality of renewable energy dependence. I expect that like South Australia you will see the sale and installation of generators at residences and businesses will skyrocket. Carbon dioxide emissions will rise because of that assuming the fuel is available ot run the generators. If not, then Germany’s economy will collapse. It’s businesses will move to countries with reliable energy sources. All of Germany will then resemble the East Germany of the bad old days of the Cold War, and they will have done it to themselves.

Toto
January 27, 2019 12:50 pm

Gonna need a long cable from China.

icisil
January 27, 2019 12:54 pm

They might just switch over to wood pellets (renewable!)) imported from Siberia. They’re going to run out of lignite anyways in a few decades.

Robert W. Turner
January 27, 2019 12:55 pm

Depending entirely on Russia for your energy, brilliant.

Ed Bo
Reply to  Robert W. Turner
January 27, 2019 1:06 pm

All they have to do is invade Russia to get control of the natural gas supplies. That usually works well…

ferd berple
January 27, 2019 12:57 pm

coal-burning plants with a capacity of 12.5 gigawatts to be shut down by 2022.
==========
The date of 2022 is key. Merkel has announced she will resign as chancellor in 2021. She will get the credit for shutting down the coal plants, which she can then parley into some choice position in the EU, UN, etc.

Merkel’s successor will get the blame if the lights go out, so Germany will be forced to buy Russian gas. If Putin says jump, Germany will ask “how high”.

Non Nomen
Reply to  ferd berple
January 27, 2019 1:44 pm

No. The Germans will obey without asking any questions. They are trained to do what they are told.

MarkW
January 27, 2019 12:58 pm

“There won’t be any more coal-burning plants in Germany by 2038.”

I’ll believe it when it happens.

More than likely the populace will get tired of freezing in the dark long before the last coal plant is shut down.

Bob boder
Reply to  MarkW
January 28, 2019 9:01 am

Agreed, it will never happen

iain russell
January 27, 2019 1:02 pm

I am surprised at this, considering the abject and documented failure of the Energiewendung. This is national masochism.

Larry in Texas
Reply to  iain russell
January 27, 2019 1:33 pm

The Germans, at last estimate, individually pay at least three to four times as much for their electricity usage as I do. Watch that cost go up as they get closer and closer to the drop-dead date (no pun intended; I’m serious) for the plants that are closing.

Why the rest of CDU/CSU hasn’t got rid of Merkel already I’ll never know.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Larry in Texas
January 27, 2019 4:30 pm

Its been said, Larry, that Germans use 1/3 the electricity as the U.S., so its a wash. Actually, it is evidence of their relatively small and homogenized country.

While the U.S. thinks and acts big, this latest elitist scheme shows just how small Germany’s thinking has become.

E J Zuiderwijk
January 27, 2019 1:04 pm

A bottle of Islay says that it won’t happen.

Dave Fair
January 27, 2019 1:05 pm

It fascinating that a small group of faceless bureaucrats/politicians/activists can, with one vote, place an entire country on a path to penury. I’ll guess that there weren’t many (any) true scientists or engineers in the cabal.

This is a prime example of an isolated elite dictating to the people at large. It provides the politicians with cover to implement socialism.

Flight Level
Reply to  Dave Fair
January 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Germany has a well established history on what happens after the country enters a state of penury and attempts to procure foreign resources.

Resumed by this joke:
Frankfurt airport ground control gives very complex instructions to a B747 captain that just landed. The aircraft asks for precisions. The ground control guy jokes:
-Ach, so firts time around here yankee boys ?
To which the captain replies:
-Negative Sir, I have been here many times on a different type of Boeing but I didn’t land.

brians356
Reply to  Flight Level
January 27, 2019 1:44 pm

B-17.

Sean
January 27, 2019 1:08 pm

The U.K. passed their climate law in he midst of a light snowfall in London at the end of October, the first time snow had fallen that early there in decades. Germany votes to shut down coal as Australia suffers rolling blackouts after demolishing reliable baseload power stations. Oh the arrogance of politicians on a religious crusade.

Tim
Reply to  Sean
January 27, 2019 2:27 pm


“There is a horrifying recent example from my own country of what happens when electricity prices are hiked so much that poorer families can’t afford to turn on the heater. There was a brief cold snap last winter, and 25,000 more excess winter deaths than usual resulted, chiefly because those who are less well-off can no longer afford electrical power or heating oil because global-warming policies have made these essential commodities six times costlier than they would be if the free market had been allowed to work without governmental interference”.

(Of discount rates and candy-canes Guest Blogger / January 11, 2019 By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley)

Ve2
Reply to  Sean
January 27, 2019 3:16 pm

I have often wondered, how well does solar work under a foot of snow.

Mike Borgelt
Reply to  Ve2
January 27, 2019 3:39 pm

Wrong question Ve2. The correct question is when was the last time they ever had snow in Tonopah, Nevada? https://www.solarreserve.com/en/global-projects/csp/crescent-dunes

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Mike Borgelt
January 27, 2019 6:25 pm

Thermal solar is an economic dead end. It can never pay back its investors and deliver reliable electricity at an affordable cost. Only by harvesting the politically granted tax incentives and other paybacks do investors put their money into these ventures. Which is why Democrats suckle at the teets of those investors for campaign cash. Feeding at the electricity consumer trough.

DonM
Reply to  Mike Borgelt
January 28, 2019 11:07 am

Snows there pretty much every year.

Averages more than a foot per year.

Why is that the correct question?
Does the answer make the question incorrect?

(and a quick look shows a projection of 1 or 2 inches for next tuesday … I guess the correct question may be how many birds are saved by each Tonopah snowfall event.)

JEHill
January 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Human sized hamsters wheels for Germany….

Perhaps this is how they are fighting their immigration problems…no wait those immigrants also want to return to how humans lived back in the 11th century…how progressive of Germany

Flight Level
January 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Mr. Putin said it loud and clear:
-You don’t want nuclear, have a problem with gas, so how will you heat your houses ? Firewood ? We have plenty of it in Siberia.

https://youtu.be/xDQDyt0B-1E

markl
January 27, 2019 1:13 pm

Just another goalpost move for Germany and it will end up like the last one. It never ceases to amaze what lack of knowledge politicians have when it comes to “renewable” energy.

icisil
January 27, 2019 1:16 pm

“There won’t be any more coal-burning plants in Germany by 2038.”

According to this article, lignite German mines will have almost been depleted by then. Finding other fuel sources sounds like a good idea. Wood pellets, anyone?

A large part of the German lignite opencast mines would have been depleted by 2030, and the remaining lignite reserves would have been exhausted by 2050 at the latest.

https://www.thegwpf.com/germanys-climate-agenda-on-the-brink-of-the-abyss/

J Martin
January 27, 2019 1:17 pm

Merkel has signed up to buy gas from the US of A as well as Russia. They’re going to need it because solar anywhere north of Italy only pays back 0.86 of the energy invested in it and wind isn’t any better.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421516301379

Aurora Negra
January 27, 2019 1:18 pm

This will not end well for Norway when the 4th Reich (EU/Germany) decide they need all the energy they can lay their hands on. It’s time to get a hacksaw and cut the power lines out of the country and dig trenches along the borders to Sweden and Finland.

Toto
January 27, 2019 1:25 pm

“This is an historic accomplishment,” said Ronald Pofalla,

— historic, yes, accomplishment, no

chairman of the 28-member government commission, at a news conference in Berlin following a marathon 21-hour negotiating session that concluded at 6 a.m. Saturday. The breakthrough ended seven months of wrangling. “It was anything but a sure thing. But we did it,” Pofalla said. “There won’t be any more coal-burning plants in Germany by 2038.”

— 21 hours, seven months. So this is the compromise. Some must have wanted more cuts sooner. Some must have had some reservations. Concluded at 6 a.m. — maybe they were locked in a room without food or water or sleep until they confessed…

— There won’t be any more Germany by 2038.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Toto
January 27, 2019 4:25 pm

Probably true, Toto; they will have subsumed the EU by then.

Roy
Reply to  Toto
January 28, 2019 4:47 am

An accomplishment is something achieved, not something that comes before the achievement.

Larry in Texas
January 27, 2019 1:26 pm

Sheer madness. Germany has lost its mind. I can predict what will happen, but our knucklehead green politicians in the US are going to be pointing to this for some time – until the bottom falls out of the German economy.

rovingbroker
January 27, 2019 1:30 pm

” … will shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years … ”

19 years is a long time. Plenty of time to change their minds. 19 years ago Bill Clinton (I don’t remember him either) was the US president.

Non Nomen
Reply to  rovingbroker
January 27, 2019 1:50 pm

When I look back, 19 years is a very short time. But I agree that it is a long time to come up with more stupid ideas.

F. Ross
January 27, 2019 1:31 pm

And a new nightfall will descend upon Germany.

How shortsighted, how sad.

brians356
January 27, 2019 1:41 pm

“There won’t be any more coal-burning plants in Germany by 2038.”

Oh, yes there will be. Some or all may be shut down presently, but unless modern society crumbles in Germany, a way will be found to magically recommission most of them. Mark my words well.

Ben Gunn
January 27, 2019 1:46 pm

on the bright side gone is any chance for a Fourth Reich.

Ve2
Reply to  Ben Gunn
January 27, 2019 3:12 pm

Don’t kid yourself, the big push is for a combined European Army, and we all know who will end up controlling that.

James Fosser
January 27, 2019 1:54 pm

So our children will never know snow and many will never know where a country named Germany used to be and is now a huge game park.

John Bell
January 27, 2019 1:58 pm

Mindless virtue signalling…Germany buy your yellow vests soon, cheaper by the dozen.

Nik
January 27, 2019 2:04 pm

This will turn out just like Merkel’s, “Wir schaffen das,” regarding the “migrants” from “Syria.”

ATheoK
January 27, 2019 2:11 pm

“The commission’s recommendations are expected to be adopted by Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government”

Only if Merkel desperately wants to end her public career on a disastrous down note.

January 27, 2019 2:13 pm

As with Nazism, Germany is embarking on yet another religious crusade, this one for ‘climate’ and this one will end just as badly as the other.

commieBob
January 27, 2019 2:15 pm

Every month I check on what’s happening with ammonia fuel. This month I found an article about alternative fuels for transportation. link I note with some bemusement that the compressed air powered car refuses to die. 🙂

commieBob
Reply to  commieBob
January 27, 2019 2:19 pm

What’s that got to do with renewable energy in Germany, you ask? Ammonia is touted as one way to store energy from renewable sources. As far as I can tell, its main advantage is that it can be stored very cheaply in large tanks. ie. for mass long term storage, it’s probably cheaper than batteries.

TonyL
Reply to  commieBob
January 27, 2019 2:43 pm

commieBob, that was hilarious.
Everybody, the article was dead serious and covered all the bases on all the options for powering a car.
Things they covered as realistic options:
1) Water powered, water as fuel.
2) Liquid nitrogen(!)
3) Pure solar, “the problems have been addressed”

The kind of magical thinking on display in the article goes a long way in explaining why the electric grids in Germany and Australia are collapsing.

commieBob
Reply to  TonyL
January 27, 2019 6:08 pm

In my early career, I would often sit at the feet of the masters. They were uniformly easy to understand. They spent a lot of time discussing things in terms of first principles.

Junior engineers and scientists, on the other hand, most often explained things in a very confusing manner. They usually didn’t provide viable solutions.

What I learned was to look for violations of first principles. The approach was very productive.

Whoever wrote the article evidently doesn’t have a grasp of first principles.

Coeur de Lion
January 27, 2019 2:19 pm

Can someone produce some numbers? What does the catastrophe look like?

Non Nomen
Reply to  Coeur de Lion
January 28, 2019 5:08 am

In Germany, they just exchange the old Ferraris eletricity meters against brand new, remotely controllable ones, nationwide. They will take you off-grid when it deems necessary. Your power consumption is under full control, for a start. And when wind and PV cannot deliver, you’ll be remorselelessly taken down.

MarkW
January 27, 2019 2:24 pm

How long until griff proclaims that this plan is proof that 100% renewable will work.

griff
Reply to  MarkW
January 29, 2019 12:48 am

I expect if I’m around in 2050, I’ll be posting an update!

Chris Hanley
January 27, 2019 2:29 pm

Through Google for instance this is being trumpeted as a great advance for renewables in the ‘life and de@th’ battle against the elements, aka climate change™.
Hard coal and lignite made up about 22% of the primary energy consumption in Germany in 2017; fossil fuels oil natural gas coal together made up 80%, renewables were 13% while the rest was nuclear and ‘other’ (Statista).
Coal, most of which is imported, will be replaced quietly by gas no doubt with little effect except on electricity price with a corresponding reduction in consumption and increased hardship for many.

CD in Wisconsin
January 27, 2019 2:38 pm

Average yearly sunshine hours for German cities (North, Central and South).
Compiled from 1961-1990 data according to the website:
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Germany/annual-hours-of-sunshine.php.

Some sunshine average hours/day for major German cities: Berlin –> 4.45 hours, Hamburg –> 4.26 hours, Frankfurt –> 4.35 hours, Munich –> 4.68 hours, Stuttgart –> 4.63.

Sunshine hours for U.S. cities in contrast:
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-sunshine-by-city.php.

Chicago –> 6.87 hours/day, Miami –> 8.64, NYC –> 6.95, Dallas –> 7.80, Kansas City –> 7.70, Phoenix –> 10.6, Sacramento –> 9.88 hours/day, etc….

If that German commission thinks it can replace nuclear and coal plants with solar panels, me thinks that they are in for a huge disappointment. I have my doubts that wind energy is any better in Deutschland. If their neighboring countries follow suit, there could be some real problems on the horizon.

Germany committed suicide militarily in the early 1940s. Now they are planning on doing it economically. The first time it happened was from believing in one man’s ideology that they shouldn’t have. And now……

Londo
January 27, 2019 2:41 pm

Country is run by women. Feelings over facts is to be expected. The mistake of my life was to move to Germany. Then, Merkel opened the borders and now this. The bill for electricity is already high.

yarpos
January 27, 2019 2:53 pm

Will be interesting to see it implemented. Does the anti coal / anti nuke virtue signalling include not using interconnectors to those awful sources of power in other countries? or is it a faux righteousness like California , strutting and preening while quietly leaning other States?

OweninGA
Reply to  yarpos
January 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Of course not. Poland’s coal generators are counting on quite the windfall from this. Germany will only succeed in moving the coal generation east. This is doubly true with Macron’s plans to kill France’s nuclear plants in a similar time frame.

londo
Reply to  OweninGA
January 28, 2019 7:41 am

WTF. When did all Europan leaders become insane?

Bill Chunko
January 27, 2019 2:54 pm

Excellent! Now we wait and see how it works out. If it works out, Great! Then we adopt the technologies that made it happen. If it doesn’t, Oh well, no skin off of our noses!

Krishna Gans
January 27, 2019 3:01 pm

Good bye and good night, Germany. The last’s shuttin’ off the light

Old Woman of the North
January 27, 2019 3:04 pm

It seems Germans are still able to focus totally on unsound ideas to their own detriment.

Rod Evans
January 27, 2019 3:41 pm

To borrow from John McEnroe.
“You can not be serious”!!
Where do the German industrialists think they will get the energy from to power their industries?
Perhaps they have decided to give up on industry and become Trappist monks, relying on the generosity of others to keep them going brewing beer and selling eggs for income.
The greens will be thrilled.

2hotel9
January 27, 2019 3:44 pm

Germany may well sink into third world utility service, you can rest assured Putin’s Russia will dig that coal out and do with it as they please, most likely paying German miners subsistence wages to dig it and German railroaders subsistence wages to move it. All while putting a pittance into Germany through taxes and tariffs. The “German Solution” has been trudging forward for decades, you don’t honestly think a True Son of Mother Russia such as Vladimir Putin will let this debt go uncollected, can you?

CEO
January 27, 2019 4:02 pm

It is really not the problem for Germany that it seems to be. They will simply export pieces of paper (dollars, euros), which can be printed Ad infinitum, in exchange for electricity imported from neighbouring countries. People for some reason seem to place value on these pieces of paper, willingly accepting them in exchange for tangible goods and services. When that doesn’t work anymore, and that time will come, one can always simply “annex” those neighboring regions that had the fore site to build nuclear power stations.

Gordon Dressler
January 27, 2019 4:33 pm

Actually, this is excellent news for the US! With such an aggressive plan to eliminate both nuclear and coal, there is an excellent chance that by 2030 (just 11 years from now) Germany will have demonstrated their folly for all the world to see.

Since things in the US are moving much slower in that same direction, there’s now a great chance that seeing Germany’s great “experiment” fail in practice, the US can reverse its own “green” trend so that we’ve only wasted several $trillions on this path, inside of hundreds of $trillions.

And, yes, by 2030 the US should still have enough natural gas and CCGT equipment to send to Germany so that we can once again rebuild their (energy) infrastructure.

Pflashgordon
January 27, 2019 4:38 pm

Look at a wind resource potential map for Germany. It has been well known for many years that Germany’s wind potential is low, very spotty. Given their northerly latitude, solar hasn’t much of a chance either. So I guess they are leaving themselves no options but to rejoin the reemergent USSR, and tossing in western Germany to boot.

Red94ViperRT10
January 27, 2019 5:00 pm

“This is an historic accomplishment…”

You haven’t accomplished one damn thing yet, except compose an inane virtue-signaling bloviation indicating vast ambition with half-vast preparation, for public consumption. Before you shut down even the first coal-fired power plant you need to find a replacement, and your “Energiewende” has proven that unreliables are not a replacement.

“Do. Or do not. There is no try.” – Yoda.

David Stone
January 27, 2019 5:22 pm

Hitler and Merkel; two leaders with totally different objectives but a similar outcome – the destruction of their own nation and most of Europe. Artillery for Adolph, energiewende and unfettered Muslim immigration for Angela. At least after Hitler both Germany and Europe recovered. Merkel has done a real snow job though – Eurabia will be thanking her for many a long millennia. She’ll take the cake for most influential leader in history. No one would’ve predicted that when she came to power.

January 27, 2019 5:33 pm

Just like their relatives in the UK, Anglo Saxon Celtic, are very slow to anger, unlike the French, but when they do get pushed too far they fight.
Look at the movie footage of the 1920 tes and even the early 1930 before Hitler came along, plenty of street fighting. Mercle and her Green successor will not last. Germany as with many other parts of the EU is slowly going to the right politically.

I doubt if it will even get to brown outs, but it will put a big strain on the massive EU Grid system, so expect other countries in Europe to either cut Germany off the Grid, or tell her to stop this
nonsense

The big industries will also get involved , and the result will be a right wing political party.

Its very unlikely that this could produce another Hitler, but certainly a far better Leader will emerge, perhaps a German TRUMP.

MJE

Robber
January 27, 2019 6:10 pm

The “full story” does not explain what will replace coal-fired electricity generation.

Tom Abbott
January 27, 2019 6:25 pm

Just look at the extremes to which people have been driven because of the Climategate charlatan’s lies about CAGW being real. Talk about a small group of people screwing things up royally! They aren’t just screwing Germany up, they are screwing the whole world up.

To German citizens: Those Climategate Charlatans that have deceived your leaders and driven them mad with delusions of CO2 catastrophe, have names. You ought to sue them for damages.

January 27, 2019 6:56 pm

Germany, one of the world’s biggest consumers of coal, will shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years

Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,

Discuss

Mike Borgelt
January 27, 2019 7:42 pm

The problem with the Germans is that they are smart, hard working and stubborn. Avoid going to war against them if at all possible.
This leads to , when things are tanking, an unwillingness to abandon sunk costs and change course.
This is going to get interesting. That 73% are in favor of the coal phaseout just means that the German eduction system has become as terrible as those in Australia and the US. There is very little technical knowledge among the populations.

observa
January 27, 2019 9:50 pm

Good luck with that-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/power-cuts-‘australians-should-be-outraged-by-this’/ar-BBSONcY
but perhaps Germans really want to relive the ‘good old days’ according to no prizes for guessing-
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/warmists-really-want-you-to-suffer/news-story/cac7aaeb2807be26eb4185b7ab023d0f

Personally guys I’d refresh the memory about Napoleon and Stalingrad and all that snow and cold before you go reminiscing about blackouts and war time. Don’t listen to these Greenshirt masochists.

rah
Reply to  observa
January 28, 2019 3:40 am

The “Climate crisis” zombies were out in force in Europe. https://www.breitbart.com/news/tens-of-thousands-protest-in-france-belgium-over-climate-crisis/

Makes me wish they would be hit with the worst cold snap they have ever seen.

Non Nomen
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 5:23 am

Makes me wish they would be hit with the worst cold snap they have ever seen.

For the next 12 years in a row until they find out what acually is worse than they thought.

griff
January 28, 2019 12:51 am

They are at 40% renewable already… with no problems and no grid shut downs.

An awfully large amount of German electricity from conventional power plants is currently exported (it has been keeping France lit up over the past few years while their reactors have seen major shut downs).

They are only just starting on their major north/south HVDC grid improvements, needed to ship solar north and wind power south…

their offshore wind programme and interconnectors to e.g Norway are continuing apace.

Really, there is no problem here… and their plans will I’m sure include reskilling and re-employment of displaced power workers.

griff
Reply to  rah
January 29, 2019 12:46 am

2013 date on that article. The situation has changed since – and the predictions did NOT come true

The aluminium plant outage was an near unique event… if I remember rightly there was a problem when that occurred from the post Fukushima nuclear shutdown

The export to e.g Polish grid issue is resolved.

Analitik
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 2:40 am

Keep repeating that story to yourself, griff. Someone has to believe it.

Analitik
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 2:56 am

Too bad the original goal to phase out all coal plants by 2030 didn’t pass. The faster phase out would crash the grid earlier so other nations, like Scotland and Australia, might rethink their own suicide pacts before their own grid collapses.

Krishna Gans
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 3:11 am

Mid january we have been near a collaps as the frequecy was down to 49.8 Hz
source

On Thursday the 01/10/2019 at 20:02:05 clock UTC the mains frequency briefly reached the value of 49,800 Hz. This is remarkable, since at this value the control range of the primary control power is 100% exhausted and first automatic shutdown measures are active to avoid a further frequency reduction The first image shows the frequency response in the timeframe of one hour, the second image shows the range of 10 minutes around the incident. At 19:55 UTC, the drop in frequency caused by the electricity trade begins at the hour change. At 20:01, stagnation sets in for about a minute. Then the frequency drops to about 49.800 Hz at about 2.5 mHz / second. At 49.8 Hz, the slope reverses abruptly and the frequency increases again. When the 49.8 Hz was reached, the first measures for frequency keeping were triggered, whereby previously defined loads were dropped. This can e.g. Pump storage in loading operation or industrial companies with disconnectable loads. For example, the French grid operator RTE that more than 1.5 GW industrial loads were automatically dropped for 20 to 45 minutes, which was the first time since construction of this instrument (see press release).
The third picture shows the current frequency drop along with the other discharge limits. If the frequency of an additional 600 MHz would be dropped, the remaining storage pumps had been thrown at 49 Hz, the first 12.5% ​​of consumers had been thrown off, which would mean a blackout for these groups. Only after further load drops of 50% of consumers, the power would be switched off below 47.5 Hz, which would be a complete blackout.
From a system perspective, the incident was not critical because only the first of several levels was triggered. This solved the problem automatically.
The search for the reason for this incident is still ongoing. There was a power plant in Spain. which had a failure in the period (558 MW, see blog of Herbert Saurugg). Failures of this magnitude are normally easily absorbed by the primary control power (3000 MW). According to the current state of affairs (see press release ENTO-E dated 16.01.2019), TenneT Germany on the border to Austria had incorrect measurements but these did not cause the frequency drop.

The Gridradar website operates a Wide Area Monitoring System (WAM). It was found that the lowest frequency (49.799 Hz at the time) occurred in France / Spain. Further results are provided by the analysis of the phase angle. The comparison of the phase angle at different locations gives an idea of ​​the current load flow. Analogous to a cardan shaft, the phase angle in regions which feed power into the network precedes the power-related regions.
The phase angle shows that in the region of France / Spain, the performance was increased significantly about 15 minutes before the event, and falls significantly below the original value about 5 minutes before the event. This can be caused by the failure of a power plant that has been started up at the hour, or by the hourly trading. The evaluations can be found at https://gridradar.net/news.html.

On the one hand, the incident has shown that the tools for automatic load shedding work.
On the other hand, the question arises as to why the primary control could not stop this slow frequency drop. Here are two potential options:

The error in the power balance of the grid was greater than the then activated primary control power (over 2.6 GW).
The service to provide primary control power was not met by many power plants during this period.

source

Non Nomen
Reply to  Krishna Gans
January 28, 2019 8:25 am

I do expect such statements on a regular basis.

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Non Nomen
January 28, 2019 8:50 am

Bookmark the source and you can follow….

Non Nomen
Reply to  Krishna Gans
January 28, 2019 8:57 am

Done.

John Endicott
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 8:42 am

Must be nice, griff, in that alternate reality you live in.

rah
January 28, 2019 12:52 am

Much easier to talk the talk than walk the walk. I’ll believe it when I see it.

griff
January 28, 2019 12:54 am
Krishna Gans
Reply to  griff
January 28, 2019 3:17 am

Griff, I have no idea where you live, but certainely not in reality 😀
One of our problems is the money we have to pay for our electricity bills, the second the resulting prices of products calculating these bills in their product prices ans than the fear of the unssen “chance” of blackout.

griff
Reply to  Krishna Gans
January 29, 2019 1:02 am

I don’t know where you live either. The quote above from you doesn’t make it clear. but I don’t see that it represents an renewable or green grid issue. and I note that increasing use of grid storage specifically for frequency response will mitigate this sort of problem.

Krishna Gans
Reply to  griff
January 29, 2019 3:36 am

I live in Germany and see and feel the consequences of Green policy.

Stephen Richards
January 28, 2019 1:00 am

Hugs January 28, 2019 at 12:21 am

The west rebuilt germany in their own image, only better. The Marshall Plan. We didn’t take away anything

rah
Reply to  Stephen Richards
January 28, 2019 2:34 am

Millions of Germans would have starved in the years after WW II without the efforts of the Allies, and in particular the US. The Germans are smart and industrious but without the massive help from the Marshall plan they would not be nearly where they are today. Anyone that was around during the time of the wall and saw the difference between East and West would know that.

But the Marshall plan wasn’t all about helping Germany for the sake of the Germans. It’s prime purpose, the real justification for the massive expenditure of US wealth in helping to rebuild, was preventing a fertile ground for Communism to grow in and thus prevent the expansion of Stalin’s power to the west. West Germany was to be the stopper and it was, but not nearly to the extent envisioned by Marshall and the other architects of the plan. Thus I and millions of other Americans, spent parts of our lives in West Germany s part of the massive US military presence there long after the formal occupation ended right up into the 1990s. And over all those years millions more how were not stationed there spent a month or so there during the annual Reforger exercises when whole Divisions deployed for war games to Germany.

During my 8 1/2 years on teams in 10th SFG(A) I was stationed in Germany for three and on TDY in Germany for over a year more. Loved it. But it seems the Germany now is not the Germany I knew.

Krishna Gans
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 3:23 am

Anyone that was around during the time of the wall and saw the difference between East and West would know that.
Guess where Merkel comes from ?
Source

A new biography covering Chancellor Angela Merkel’s life in East Germany has caused a stir by suggesting she was closer to the communist apparatus and its ideology than previously thought.

Published this week and written by journalists Günther Lachmann and Ralf Georg Reuth, the book quotes Gunter Walther, a former colleague of hers at the Academy of Sciences in East Berlin, as saying she had been secretary for “Agitation and Propaganda” in the Freie Deutsche Jugend (FDJ) youth organization at the institute. Merkel, a trained physicist, worked at the academy from 1978 until 1989.
[..]
“With Agitation and Propaganda you’re responsible for brainwashing in the sense of Marxism,” he said. “That was her task and that wasn’t cultural work. Agitation and Propaganda, that was the group that was meant to fill people’s brains with everything you were supposed to believe in the GDR, with all the ideological tricks. And what annoys me about this woman is simply the fact that she doesn’t admit to a closeness to the system in the GDR. From a scientific standpoint she wasn’t indispensable at the Academy of Sciences. But she was useful as a pastor’s daughter in terms of Marxism-Leninism. And she’s denying that. But it’s the truth.”

Non Nomen
Reply to  Krishna Gans
January 28, 2019 8:34 am

Some say she is IM “Erika”, an alleged Stasi-informer and collaborationist. Putin knows it all.

ralfellis
January 28, 2019 1:14 am

Interesting. I have never seen a country commit suicide before.

It has not happenned since the Western Roman Empire paid the Visigoth leader Alaric a fortune in gold to NOT attack Rome. So he took the gold and attacked Rome, and that was the end of the Western Roman Empire.

Many people think this merely represented a change in administration, but it did not. The social system collapsed, with everything from agriculture to water to transport no longer functioning, and so 60% of the population died out in less than a generation. It was the greatest calamity Europe had ever seen – much worse than the Black Death.

Could this happen to Germany? I think it could – a UK government study in the 80s (lots of strikes then) concluded the nation was never more than 10 days away from revolution. That is how long it takes for the population to realise there is no more food in the shops, and they take to the streets.

Just think of the effects of a large midwinter anticyclone over Germany. No electricity production for two weeks, and no storage facilities for electricity. Nothing would work. No water, transport, food, heating – nothing would work. But there would be plenty of angry people on the streets…..

R

rah
Reply to  ralfellis
January 28, 2019 3:21 am

ralfellis

“a UK government study in the 80s (lots of strikes then) concluded the nation was never more than 10 days away from revolution. ”

Don’t believe that one for a minute. Stationed in Germany Dec. 1986 to Dec. 1989. TDY there several times before that starting in 1982. Spent time all over West Germany, including West Berlin. Trained with their Army and tactical units of their police. Spent time in every major city of the country.

ralfellis
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 4:35 am

You think a starving nation will not revolt??

R

rah
Reply to  ralfellis
January 28, 2019 4:42 am

NO, but I KNOW that the West German nation never came close to starving in the 80s.

Dale S
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 6:19 am

I read that as a hypothetical — *if* the Germans were cut off from the outside, the resources on hand would empty out quickly and reach revolution-state in ten days. West Germany never was isolated, so the fact that they couldn’t feed themselves didn’t really matter outside the few years immediately after WWII.

Whether the hypothetical is true is a separate question. I can well believe resources in Germany could exhaust quickly, given dependencies on outside food — but that’s true in many, many countries, and as the example of Venezuela shows moving from prosperity to privation neither makes revolution fast or easy in the face of armed forces, especially with a disarmed populace.

rah
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 7:34 am

Kind of tough to isolate Germany that way with borders with seven other free countries, if you count Luxomburg. And as for revolt due to starvation in a police state? During WW II the bulk of the civil population of Japan were below mere subsistence level from the middle of 1942 on and it only got worse as the war progressed. it wasn’t much better for their Army in China either. Most of the offensives in China from 1942 onward were aimed in large part at procuring more rice. Of course Japan is kind of a unique case due to it’s culture.

ralfellis
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 9:05 am

>>but I KNOW that the West German nation never
>>came close to starving in the 80s.

I was talking about Britain, which did come close to starvation, with the 3-day week.

And this analysis of the UK applies to most if not all nations – a starving nation will always end up in revolt. And if Germany loses electricity for two weeks, it will be on the edge of starvation and revolt.

R

rah
Reply to  ralfellis
January 28, 2019 4:51 am

In fact during the 4+ years I spent in Germany in the 80s I can’t remember coming across a single person begging in the street. I don’t remember a single person looking malnourished. Not even the Turk squatters that I saw which made up the largest portion of the illegal immigrants there at the time begged or looked malnourished. Nope the biggest hassle on the streets of the major Germany cities that I remember were the gals working the “Erocenters” trying to drag my ass in there to buy overpriced drinks and….. well, you know.

ralfellis
Reply to  rah
January 28, 2019 9:07 am

Duh…. This was a UK study, about the UK.
Can’t you read….?

R

Reply to  ralfellis
January 28, 2019 12:35 pm

ralfellis,
“Interesting. I have never seen a country commit suicide before. ”

May I suggest a look at Caracas?

Auto

rah
January 28, 2019 1:26 am

On the list of the top 10 countries with proven coal reserves, Germany is 6th. https://www.mining-technology.com/features/feature-the-worlds-biggest-coal-reserves-by-country/

Ian Macdonald
January 28, 2019 1:29 am

I don’t see this as being a specifically German problem. Scotland is in the same position, if not worse. Our saving grace is that we are connected to the rest of the UK, so when the turbines stop the lights don’t go out. I dread to think what will happen to our electricity supplies if there’s a decision to go independent.

This insanity is even affecting France, where the nuclear capacity means there is no need for wind turbines.

No, it’s a more general problem in that politicians have been convinced by crafty wind turbine seller adverts. Adverts that conflate the market penetration of renewables with success of wind turbines when the real success has been with hydro and biomass, that quote electricity figures as if they were total energy figures, that cherry-pick performance over short favourable intervals.

Politicians need to be shown the real facts:
-That wind turbines actually provide only a fraction of a percent of world energy, and that after over 20 years of development.
-That outages are too long to be covered by any feasible battery or pumped storage capacity.
-That performance claims quoting electricity generation only are irrelevant if the intention is to make transport and heating electric. In that case, total energy is what matters.
-That a comparison of expenditure and energy replaced over the last decade suggests that it will cost the world $200 trillion USD to go 100% renewable by the wind/solar route, and that’s not including the cost of energy storage systems, smart grids or the like.

Perhaps if we had a letter writing campaign, we might get this message across?

sonofametman
Reply to  Ian Macdonald
January 28, 2019 9:38 am

You must be one of the few Scots I’ve encountered who have their eyes open.
I rarely meet anyone who thinks that we’re heading towards serious problems.
People just don’t seem to understand or care, and swallow the green propaganda quite happily.
The trouble with Scotland is that the SNP government are in hock to the Greens for their political support.
They want also to shut our two remaining nukes at Hunterston (already in trouble with graphite problems) and Torness, and there’s a moratorium on fracking.
If they succeed in doing that we’ll be left with only the gas plant at Peterhead.
You’re right about being connected to England as our saving grace, without that we’d be stuffed.
The figures for the interconnection make interesting reading.
I’m seriously considering moving out of Edinburgh for my retirement, so I can have a house
with an LPG tank for my heating which can also be used to fuel a generator.
About 50 years ago, I can remember my mother’s friend in Shetland finally getting rid of the diesel generator in her shed, as the mains power had become reliable enough.
Seems like we might be going backwards.
Like you, I worry that political independence for Scotland will be an energy policy disaster.
Letter writing campaign? Sign me up.

griff
Reply to  Ian Macdonald
January 29, 2019 12:59 am

you aren’t paying attention to tha actual situation on the ground in Scotland. which is at 68% of electricity fdemand met…

https://www.scottishrenewables.com/forums/renewables-in-numbers/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/renewable-energy-electricity-wind-wave-scotland-climate-change-oil-gas-a8283166.html

And yes, Scotland will remain connected to other countries… including Norway through a new HVDC connection.

There is much tidal turbine, wave and pumped storage capacity in Scotland still to be tapped…

Hasbeen
January 28, 2019 3:08 am

In Oz for many years we referred to the VW beetle as Hitler’s revenge.

I guess it is now reasonable to refer to Angela Merkel as Stalin’s revenge.

Steve O
January 28, 2019 4:33 am

There will be several elections between now and 2038. Germany will move down the path, but they’ll never get all the way there.

John Endicott
Reply to  Steve O
January 28, 2019 8:49 am

The problems to the grid will get increasingly apparent the further down the path they move so they’d have to be pretty stupid or pretty quick at moving down the path (or both) to get all the way there. If they ever do get close to all the way there they’ll have ignored the Kirk Lazarus rule:

mtvessel
January 28, 2019 4:39 am

Well, there goes the 4th Reich

Krishna Gans
Reply to  mtvessel
January 28, 2019 5:56 am

I wouldt call it GDR 2.0

Alec Rawls
January 28, 2019 5:58 am

They sure are counting on finding a lot of unicorn farts. Their invading army of Islamic jihadists is about to slaughter them back to the stone age. Too slow apparently. They want to go back to pre-industrial energy levels now.

edfix
January 28, 2019 6:37 am

Deutschland, welcome to the 21st Century. It’s gonna look a lot like the 19th.

Non Nomen
Reply to  edfix
January 28, 2019 8:28 am

Dark ages, rather.

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
Reply to  edfix
January 28, 2019 10:24 am

Make that the 18th century. The 19th century was one of tremendous technical progress; life got dramatically better.

JMurphy
January 28, 2019 8:42 am

Good on you, Germany! Your ability to find solutions to technical difficulties will surely find a way and hopefully many other countries will join you in the search for clean, safe energy – Vorsprung Durch Technik.

But, judging by the negative and bitter responses on here, you have a lot to do to win over those who only want to believe in ABC (Anything But Carbon). Maybe you never will and who cares. Especially with regards to websites such as this one. I often come here to see what excuses and new justifications come up to prevent any meaningful response to global warming, and usually I am not disappointed! Mystified at times, of course – who wouldn’t be, seeing the goal-posts being moved every few months: It’s not warming…it’s warming a little…ok, it’s warming but it’s good for us…we don’t know everything so we can’t know anything…anyway, it’s not us, so there!

However, there has to come a point where every rational person has to say ‘Enough’! It used to be quite funny on here and sometimes a little enlightening. But now, to see so much bile and anger being poured out against the traditional bogeymen of “LEFTISTS”, “COMMUNISTS”, “Islamization”, “World Government”; against the imagined “4th Reich (EU/Germany)”; that there is (apparently) something “just wrong with the German mindset. Arrogant and self important without judgement” or, again apparently true to those who want to believe it, that the “Germans obey orders”. Talk about Godwin’s Law. On steroids!

The penultimate straw: Misogyny – “Country is run by women. Feelings over facts is to be expected”

The last straw: antisemitism – “And George Soros will be laughing his ass off in whatever depth of hell his evil soul is in by then. He’ll finally have his revenge on Germany’s Christians”. That poster needs to be remembered: Joel O’Bryan

All of this unchallenged and on only one post within this website. Who knows what other dirty, nasty comments can be found deep within it. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Goodbye and good riddance.

Non Nomen
Reply to  JMurphy
January 28, 2019 8:56 am

Everyone who comes here has the right to post his opinion and what he thinks, be it right or wrong, utter nonsense or the deepest thoughts ever thought. This, too, is called freedom. Sorry to see that you don’t like it.

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Non Nomen
January 28, 2019 10:05 am

Even “Griff”s comments are welcome 😀
And if only as a humorous one 😀

Non Nomen
Reply to  Krishna Gans
January 28, 2019 11:36 am

Sometimes it’s hard to refrain from picking on ol’ griff. 😁

griff
Reply to  Non Nomen
January 29, 2019 12:43 am

Feel free! I am open to any form of debate.

There have been some excellent jokes at my expense too!

Beta Blocker
Reply to  JMurphy
January 28, 2019 12:22 pm

JMurphy: “I often come here to see what excuses and new justifications come up to prevent any meaningful response to global warming, and usually I am not disappointed! Mystified at times, of course – who wouldn’t be, seeing the goal-posts being moved every few months.”

In 2010 , nine years ago, Democrats were in control of both Congress and the White House. They could have enacted a stiff tax on carbon and signed that tax into law. But they didn’t.

Barack Obama was President between 2009 and 2016. He could have declared a carbon pollution emergency, using that declaration as justification for pursuing aggressive enforcement of the Clean Air Act against all sources of America’s carbon emissions, not just against coal. But he didn’t.

President Obama’s announced goal was for America’s carbon emissions to be reduced 80% by 2050.

However, his published plans got us possibly one-third of the way towards that objective. At no point in his presidency did Barack Obama ever mention the necessity of imposing a program of direct carbon fuel rationing if his GHG reduction schedule wasn’t being met.

More likely than not, Democrats will be in control of both the Congress and the White House in 2021. At which point a program of massive government spending on renewable energy projects will begin.

That said, let us ask these questions of all of America’s AGW activists:

Will the new Democrat president commit to President Obama’s original goal of an 80% reduction in America’s GHG emissions by 2050?

Will a Democrat controlled Congress enact a stiff tax on carbon?

Will the new Democrat president declare a carbon pollution emergency and begin enforcing the Clean Air Act to it maximum possible effectiveness?

Will that new Democrat president also be honest in stating that if other GHG control measures can’t get us to an 80% reduction by 2050, a government-mandated program of carbon fuel rationing must be imposed at some point in the future?

Luke of the D
Reply to  JMurphy
January 28, 2019 12:44 pm

This is a joke right? Cause it really made me laugh! Goodbye! Farewell! Enjoy the cold, cold winters!

anorak2
Reply to  JMurphy
January 29, 2019 7:43 am

This is not a technical problem, and that is not what the debate is about. You can run a power grid on hamsters driving dynamos if you want, you just need very many hamsters, cages, dynamos and a lot of hamster food.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkNTAiWX8g0

Likewhise you can, if you must, technically run a power grid on wind and solar equalized by huge (and I mean HUGE) rechargeable batteries or pumped reservoirs. But economically it isn’t feasible. This project is so ridiculously expensive because it wastes such HUGE amounts of resources (ironically in the misguided endeavour to SAVE resources) that it will break any nation’s back that even attempts it – economically and politically.

ResourceGuy
January 28, 2019 9:36 am

I hope the Kremlin is updating its hypothetical attack plan with the one or two missiles to turn NATO dark and leave it to Americans to salvage the situation in a just-in-time defense plan.

Neil MacLeod
January 28, 2019 10:38 am

As a last ditch effort to stave off defeat Angela unleashed her vengeance weapons.
The V1 wind turbine and the V2 solar panel.

Mark Abhold
January 28, 2019 10:47 am

The German energy plan in ~2000 planned to shut all German nuclear power plants down by 2020, replacing them (mostly) with wind power. This was unattainable, partly because the electricity grid needed to support wind power proved to be too expensive and permits to build the grid were often blocked. So what did Germany actually do? They built over 20 new lignite burning power plants in the last 18 years. Lignite is among the dirtiest of all coal types. Their 2000 energy plan was a complete failure. Now, after building all these coal plants and actually increasing CO2 production, Germany decides they’re going to shut them down. Note the shutdowns won’t be in the next year or two, they’re planned over the next 19 years. Germany is just kicking the can down the road.

iRocket
January 28, 2019 12:16 pm

Germany executes an avian holocaust, no surprise. Windfarms devastate winged creatures.