Guest essay by Eric Worrall
h/t Dr Willie Soon / Steve Milloy – the Italian government has proposed plans to subsidise sales of electric cars, by taxing sales of gasoline and diesel cars.
Italy proposes measures to spur sales of low-emission cars
DECEMBER 5, 2018
MILAN/ROME (Reuters) – Italy plans to offer subsidies of up to 6,000 euros ($6,800) to buyers of new low emission vehicles and will increase taxes on new petrol and diesel cars, two government officials said on Wednesday.
Concerns over climate change are pushing European lawmakers to tighten emissions regulations, but the car industry says that would harm its competitiveness.
Italy’s Lower House Budget Committee approved an amendment to the 2019 budget introducing a bonus for people who buy a new electric, hybrid or methane gas-powered car from Jan. 1, 2019.
If approved, the incentives will run until 2021 and total up to 300 million euros a year.
…
“It will become more and more attractive to buy less polluting cars,” said Infrastructure Undersecretary Michele Dell’Orco and Industry Undersecretary Davide Crippa in a statement.
Dell’Orco and Crippa are both members of the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement which is keen to phase out fossil fuels and promote the use of electricity generated from renewable sources.
…
This move seems quite a political gamble for the 5-star movement.
In March this year the anti-EU 5-star movement rode a wave of populist outrage against illegal immigration, to topple establishment parties and win control of the government.
Drastic action to reduce pollution might play well in the cities – large Italian cities like Rome sometimes suffer severe air pollution. But a lot of poor Italians likely won’t be able to afford a new electric vehicle, even with the subsidy. With the limited battery life of electric vehicles, there doesn’t seem much point buying a second hand electric vehicle.
Electric vehicles might also increase risk to life for Italian drivers during winter. Mountainous areas of Italy can experience harsh winters, with deep snowfall and life threatening cold. Batteries don’t work well in severe subzero conditions, and batteries are a bad option for drivers stuck in the snow, who need their vehicle’s heater to stay warm.
At the start of this year parts of the Italian Alps were buried under snow.
Extreme amounts of snow (2-3 m) in Cervinia, Aosta Valley, NW Italy (2000 m) today, Jan 9! Over 10 000 people are reported to be stranded due to extreme amounts of snow. Report: Maurizio Bedon / Meteo Triveneto – Segnalazione in tempo reale. pic.twitter.com/uq67gTY6LZ
— severe-weather.EU (@severeweatherEU) January 9, 2018
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“Electric vehicles might also increase risk to life for Italian drivers during winter. Mountainous areas of Italy can experience harsh winters, with deep snowfall and life threatening cold. Batteries don’t work well in severe subzero conditions, and batteries are a bad option for drivers stuck in the snow, who need their vehicle’s heater to stay warm.”
Eric makes a good point about rural and especially northern Italy, in deep snow and cold where batteries are just NOT going to work for long, actually endangering people when no heat or a soon to be dead battery. Which also describes the rest of northern Europe or northern USA/Canada. Obviously, the hybrid or NG methane makes a better choice in this regard but it could still be done with the pure BEV.
What amazes me is that it seems no one has developed a super efficient liquid cooled micro ICE generator of say 10 Kw, that is a micro back-up generator running at max full on efficiency for charging if an extended trip or no charger available. But also to make the pure EV work in remote or colder locations by supplying external heating for batteries and cabin, or direct drive A/C in summer. Your only limitation then is the size of the fuel tank.
This would only have to work in 10%-20% of trips perhaps of a less than 60-70 Km trip, but is the back up, fail safe last mile solution that makes the dedicated EV work without the second drive train of the Hybrid. The BEV of the future just needs a super compact micro ICE generator that is 16 HP super lite weight fuel efficient, liquid cooled 10 Kw genset, that also allows for a smaller battery pack to enable pure EV trips of 60-70 Km range or less, which is a normal daily commute. The reduced weight and cost of the battery allows for the on board micro ICE genset. And a smaller 110V-220V onboard charger that plugs into any normal 15 Amp circuit that allows the grid infrastructure to work right now, which is also better for the batteries with a slower charge.
Need a longer trip, charge in a remote location, or need some heat or A/C? Just start up the super fuel efficient Micro ICE genset, and you are on your way. I realize it is no longer a pure EV, but an extended range BEV. But it solves the problem right now of grid infrastructure, by allowing the majority of trips to be made on pure EV, with the back up protection of an onboard super efficient micro generator that is only used for a longer trip, or the 2-3 months of inclement winter weather. We have the experience of manufacturing super clean ICE now. Why not an advanced dedicated micro ICE genset?
@Erthling2
I am confused: “… that makes the dedicated EV work without the second drive train of the Hybrid.”
I thought the hybrid had a generator connected to an ICE and thus using the same drive train as the batteries. To me you are describing a hybrid exactly, just with a maybe somewhat smaller ICE.
No, I am describing a dedicated EV with just dedicated Hybrid charging, but with a mini, tiny, micro, super small ICE genset that supplies only 10 Kw charging on the fly or stationary, but more importantly, heat from the liquid cooled micro ICE for heating the battery pack or cabin in winter. Or the capability to direct drive the A/C compressor so the battery isn’t drained in summer. Something like my 250 CC dirt bike motor that drives a 220V generator. And has a small onboard charger that plugs into an ordinary plug for a slower charge. Or it could be charged from a higher capacity charger.
So far, most extended range have a fairly large and heavy 1600 CC dedicated genset, but I am talking about something in the 250 CC range. Something very ultra small, that is super efficient on fuel, and supplies thermal heat. Maybe it won’t power the car for unlimited range without some charging downtime from the micro ICE for a pitstop, but if you know you are going on a 400 mile highway trip, you start the micro genset while the battery is full and keep it charged as high as you can while you are driving. This would solve a lot of the problems for BEV’s for winter conditions where EV’s are almost useless, if you have a source of thermal heating and some charging capability. Most car trips are below 40 km a day, so would barely be used, but it is there if and when required, especially in winter.
I understand. It could be a good concept and I for one could go along with it. It is basically the same concept that is used on the ferries between for example Helsingør (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) on the so called battery ferry. Here you have a few small diesel generators running constantly, generating heat and keeping the batteries at a reasonable charge. It is also possible to charge the ferries, when they are moored in the harbor for adequate periods. I sailed with one of them about a year ago, where I measured their speed. As far as I can remember, it was about 8 knots or 15km/h. Not sure if this is the top speed or the just take it easy, to let people buy as much toll free as possible.
However, that thing with the ferries was done to save money, and not to pick winners politically, as with the EVs.
@Earthling2
This scheme is already employed by some manufacturers. There are three basic configurations.
Hybrid Assist – the ICE and electric motor (EM) both power the drive-train depending on circumstance.
Pure Hybrid – the EM powers the drive-train alone, and the battery pack is recharged by the ICE based on charge state and rate of draw down.
Pure EV – the EM powers the drive-train alone and the battery pack is recharged from an external source.
There are any number of hybrid nuances employed by manufacturers. This site has a nice explanation.
https://www.hybridcars.com/the-three-main-types-of-hybrids-explained/
If electric vehicles work in Norway then I’m pretty sure they can brave Italian winters too. It’s entirely dependant on the vehicle. Nissan don’t have battery thermal management unlike tesla and BMW. Good thermal management means that even in sub zero conditions you still get around 70% of your summer range. A leaf on the other hand probably wouldn’t want to run in sub zero as its battery has no heating element.
The article also doesn’t take into account the new heat pump technology that a lot of EVs are now using… Far more energy efficient than a resistive heater, barely impacts range in comparison.
Aside from that another benefit of EVs in winter is they have better traction capabilities as the wheels can respond with instant torque and electric response times to changes in traction. Check out the I-Pace off road demonstrations. This means they’re less likely to slip or get stuck in treacherous conditions.
From the articles I’ve been reading, EV’s don’t work all that well in Norway.
Heat pumps only work down to about 40 to 50F. Below that you’re back to resistive heat.
Toyota is rumored to be planning to incorporate a compact, 50-pound Mazda rotary running at its optimal constant speed (no emissions problems) in its new extended-range EV (EREV), due from its new Alabama plant in under two years.
Crony creation at its finest.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Madhouse politics and eceonomics
While we’re in Rome, better do ‘As The Romans Do’ eh?
Ancient Romans that is, circa 2,000 years ago.
OK. What did they do?
Amongst a myriad of things, one thing did do using slaves from Greece, was to cut down all the forest and trees that were growing around the shores (and miles inland) of the Mediterranean Sea.
To grow wheat mostly. Vines also?
NOT a happy mix, see later.
Anyway, here we are in the 21st century and well on track, what with Amazonia being felled, North/South Carolina (to feed Drax) being cut & burned plus coming soon, whatever is left standing in Europe to feed all the Biomass power stations coming on line.
That’s good, we’re well on course to emulate the rip-roaring and long-lasting civilisation that was Ancient Rome. Even better, they’ve created a nice toasty warm and rain-free place for holidaymakers from Northern Europe to visit.
Some may call it a desert, primarily due to the low-to-zero amount of organic material within the dust and dirt that comprises that place. YMMV
No matter and even better, the weather was nice & warm for the Romans, they even had their own (Roman) Warm Period.
Modern day and right here & now, next to me is an actual Ancient Roman. We’re drinking Italian coffee as it happens and he tells me that Rome ran out of food **and** Quelle Horreur, The Climate Changed.
Oh well, that’s it. Science is sorted. That was easy. No hard work or actual thinking required.
Calls for more coffee methinks.
Here’s a funny thing: Modern Climate Science will tell us (and Sputniks also) that, concerning ‘distance from the equator’ = latitude, places less than (about) 45 degs are net absorbers of solar energy and places above 45 degs are net emitters of energy (that came from Sol originally)
Put all that together and as a mind blowing Blue Sky (haha) thought experiment, lets reverse the *usual* Cause & Effect thinking.
What happens?
(Negative Gravity possibly – is Oxford still on the map or has it floated off into galactic space?)
You work it out.
……Romans cut the forest at less than 45 degs and what happened…
……King Henry VIII cut the forest at above 45 degs and what happened….
……Rapa-Nui cut their trees and what happened….
….. 500 years ago, Icelanders cut their forest and what sort of place is it now….
All completely unrelated?
Those are some pretty epic coincidences and those who say ”Climate always changes” really *really* REALLY do have some explaining to do as to *WHY* it ‘always changes’
Just repeatedly saying it is so does *not* make it so.
Sorry. I don’t buy it, not for one minute.
Unless you are inside a depressant chemically induced bubble of Magical Thinking. Anyone who ‘knows’ me should have seen that coming, *unless* you are inside a magic bubble. No you’re not because you say you’re not. sigh
Think about how you got there. I’d ask my Roman friend but he seems to have vanished and he’s not attached to the ceiling.
That’s a worry
Peta Get out of the sun. You are going mad. You are becoming incomprehensible.
I have a simple lesson, that the delegates of the latest Cop out in Katowice will immediately take in.
Tell them, as they are so dismissive of fossil fuels and the benefits it brings to society no one will be forced to use it, for their journey home. Only electric taxis and hired bicycles will be available. The African delegates may take a while to get home, but with luck they should get back in time for the next Cop out meeting. The additional plus side, apart from their forced lower carbon footprint, is lower numbers of delegates is guaranteed if there is a long walk home after the event.
We might call that a win win. Less hot air from the climate alarmists, and less of them around producing it.
70+ % of Italy’s electricity is generated by fossil fuels
The EU recession begins now. Inflation will fall in the process and U.S. consumers will win.
The line for the migrant caravan forms in Mexico. Remember to bring your coats and blankets for the cold even though your heads are full of global warming nonsense.
Viva la stupida!
Is there a global insanity virus taking over the world??
Living in Italy, I can tell that M5S party (“5 stars”) are a bunch of green zelots… they are against EVERY building project… they are against nuke, against waste disposal sites, against high speed trains, against airports, against dams, against our military purchasing F-35 fighters… really a NIMBY syndrome on steroids.
They also filed a lawsuit against the MUOS communication base in Sicily, built by US military…
Of course, they are no-vax, against OGM and so on…
Virtually every EV you could buy in Australia is costly enough that it attracts what’s known as “luxury car tax”.
So, they’re serious about not using gasoline. So serious that powering your car with COAL (which is where most Aussie electricity comes from) is a luxury?
If they were truly serious, they’d simply give a tax BREAK for EV cars, all of them, and leave the petrol cars as they currently are.
If you want to buy an expensive SUV or Sedan, you’d pay the luxury tax, unless it’s electric.
Nothing new in the EU scrapping premium aka ‘Verschrottungsprämie”.
https://www.google.at/search?q=verschrottungspr%C3%A4mie&oq=Verschrottung&aqs=chrome.
Scrap your car and buy a completely new – we give you a discount of € 5.000.-
If you buy a car from our local dealer!
Kurt Tucholsky, Sprachführer für Amerikaner:
“gnädige Frau, werfen sie das hässliche Kind weg. Ich mache Ihnen ein neues ein viel schöneres.”
https://www.textlog.de/tucholsky-deutsch-amerika.html
Nothing new in the EU – scrapping premium aka ‘Verschrottungsprämie”.
https://www.google.at/search?q=verschrottungspr%C3%A4mie&oq=Verschrottung&aqs=chrome.
Scrap your car and buy a completely new – we give you a discount of € 5.000.-
If you buy a car from our local dealer!
___________________________________________________
Kurt Tucholsky, Sprachführer für Amerikaner:
“gnädige Frau, werfen sie das hässliche Kind weg. Ich mache Ihnen ein neues. Ein viel schöneres.”
https://www.textlog.de/tucholsky-deutsch-amerika.html
– In Italy is rarely snow.
– The climate in Italy favors the longevity of the bodies of cars – little rust.
– no snow chains, no change from summer wheels to winter wheels as is usual in the EU north of the Alps.
– Italian diesels last more than 280,000.- km / ~ 200,000.- miles.
__________________________________________________
Most of Italy’s SELDOM buy a new car. When, then the new car is a USED CAR.
no scrapping premium.
scroll down to pictures:
https://www.google.at/search?q=Italy+used+tires+deposit&oq=Italy+used+tires+deposit&aqs=chrome.
such threads contain a lot of text.
High data volumes = high roaming charges.
little information.
So the ‘NEW’ Italian government is in the same Rothschild NewWorldOrder bandwagon as the old one. So nothing has changed in Italie.