Anti-Carbon-Tax Revolt Threatens To Paralyse France

From the GWPF

Date: 16/11/18

GWPF & Irish Times

France is bracing for a nationwide revolt over the weekend as angry drivers plan to block roads nationwide in protest against the government’s carbon tax and rising fuel prices.

 

France2018

The French government approved a measure in late 2017 increasing a direct tax on diesel as well as a tax on carbon, allegedly to fight against climate change. The so-called Contribution Climat Énergie (CCE), a French version of the carbon tax, has steadily increased fuel prices in recent years. Drivers across the country have balked at the rising price of diesel as it disproportionately affects workers who depend on their vehicles to get to and from their jobs. Two-thirds of French people expect a “social explosion” in coming months.

Rise of the ‘gilets jaunes’ coincides with Macron’s record low 26% approval rating.

image

Anti-riot policemen evacuate gilets jaunes protesters during a protest against the raising of fuel and oil prices. Photograph: Philippe Huguen/AFP/Getty Images

In just a few weeks, the yellow hi-vis vest has become such a potent political symbol that one risks being mistaken for a supporter of the rebellious gilets jaunes when cycling in Paris.

The gilets jaunes are a grass-roots revolt against high fuel prices, and they threaten to paralyse France on Saturday.

The cause of the price hikes are “eco taxes” meant to dissuade the French from using cars. “We choose to tax pollution and harmful products rather than workers,” budget minister Gérald Darmanin explains. Yet the fuel taxes penalise the poor disproportionately.

In the hope of deflating the protests, prime minister Édouard Philippe on Wednesday announced €500 million of compensatory measures, including a €5,000 bonus for low-income earners who trade in polluting cars for a hybrid model.

The gilets jaunes have organised at least 630 protests nationwide via the blocage17novembre.com website, designed by an 18-year-old student. Some call for go-slows on highways. Others want to block roads, which is punishable by two years in prison and a €4,500 fine. Interior minister Christophe Castaner says no “total blockage” will be tolerated.

But several police unions have expressed sympathy, and promised not to punish petty or “middle-size” offences “out of solidarity with the citizens”.

Unlikely heroine

The movement has found an unlikely symbol in Jacline Mouraud, a 51-year-old accordion player, hypnotist and spiritual medium from Brittany who on October 18th posted a video message hectoring President Emmanuel Macron for “persecuting drivers”.

Mouraud’s video went viral, and has been viewed by more than six million people. “I have a thing or two to tell you,” she starts out. The stream of accusations includes the price of fuel, the “hunt” for diesel vehicles, the “forest” of radars, the number of traffic tickets, the possibility tolls may be charged to enter large towns and rumours of mandatory bicycle registration.

“What are you doing with the dough, apart from changing the china at the Élysée and building a swimming pool?” Mouraud asks Macron.

A senior adviser to Macron spoke scathingly of “this Madame Mouraud who generates spirits from under her fingernails”. He expressed consternation that a video “stuffed with lies” has reached such a wide audience, saying: “I have the feeling that our democracy is also at stake.”

Yet the Élysée “is absolutely not condescending towards this movement”, the adviser continued. “We don’t underestimate its amplitude. Our vigilance is total, even if the signals are blurred.”

The rise of the gilets jaunes coincides with Macron’s record low 26 per cent approval rating. A poll published by Ifop on November 14th indicates two-thirds of French people expect a “social explosion” in coming months.

Full post

HT/HotScot, Alan Tomalty

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Sweet Old Bob
November 18, 2018 6:03 pm

Hope this makes the news in a big way .

commieBob
Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
November 18, 2018 6:23 pm

It is front page news in France. I googled “gilets jaunes”. It’s all over the French media all over the world. The French network of the Canadian Broadcorping Castration has several stories. The British media are covering it.

Canada’s prime minister, Trudeau Jr., should be taking notes. When a carbon tax starts to bite hard enough to affect fuel consumption CAGW will lose all support. The populace will rise in righteous anger.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  commieBob
November 18, 2018 6:37 pm

The French have always done this with regards to fuel price increases as far back as I can remember. It is good to see the Police are on the protesters’ side. I recall one such other event in the 80’s when truck drivers blocked major arterial the army was called in. Eventually, the army gave up.

Stephen Richards
Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 19, 2018 11:25 am

Our police have always taken the live and let live approach or more precisely the live and let protest approach.

They let us protest for as long as we want or until we get bored and go home. No fighting. no rubber bullets, no gas just peaceful.

However, in 1968, it got out of hand and that could happen again because the french are sick of Macron Napoleonic stance. The Europeans election next spring could bring a shock.

We wait and see

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  commieBob
November 18, 2018 7:52 pm

Canadians are too gutless to rise in anger.

Bill In Oz
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Mais les Quebecquos Canadiens ?

Non !

Stephen Richards
Reply to  Bill In Oz
November 19, 2018 11:26 am

Quebecoise I think

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Bill In Oz
November 19, 2018 7:55 pm

You got that right Oz, but the spelling is Québecois To be precise! Québécoise, Stephen Richards, if you are referring only to the ladies!

warren
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 18, 2018 9:40 pm

More like the French who also like to kid themselves they’re a little bit special compared to the rest of the World:
Mildly delusional.
Mildly egotistical.
Mildly selfish.
Mildly insecure.
Most ‘tourists’ can complete the list . . .

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 19, 2018 1:43 am

In Canada, it’s going to be called The Trudeau Tax, T3.

In order to change the weather, the federal government proposes to tax “carbon” and then give a rebate larger than the tax. This is the new carbon cycle? The carbon tax that keeps on giving!

Of course, the government doesn’t point out that the tax will increase every year but the rebate won’t.

Duane
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2018 9:48 am

As they used to say several decades ago, “this sounds like New Math”.

Tax carbon at a high rate is supposed to discourage its use. But to make it all revenue neutral and not perceived as a government screw job, the government supposedly gives it all back to drivers as a rebate.

Well, if you really do get it all back in the rebate, then someone needs to explain how this will change the attitudes of energy consumers and make them consume less. Consumers will only consume less energy if they actually have to pay more for energy.

Plus, the cost of collecting taxes and issuing rebates to the right people is not nothing … it’s likely that the net effect is actually a significant net reduction in taxing efficiency, i.e., tax revenues that are actually useful in paying for government stuff like infrastructure, defense, and social benefits.

Maybe we consumers in the 21st century are in fact being reborn as environmentalists, but we weren’t all born yesterday.

MarkW
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2018 11:00 am

Basically, the size of the check you receive is independent of the amount of fossil fuel that you use.

Duane
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2018 11:11 am

MarkW – I don’t doubt that what you wrote is true about rebates not being tied to higher gas taxes paid. And if so, then it entirely defeats the purpose of the rebate. If the rebate does not compensate actual drivers for their higher fuel taxes, then it is, well, not targeted compensation, and is in fact a giveaway not a rebate. In other words, the government creating winners and losers. Plus the cost of collecting taxes and giving away free money to people who don’t really need it.

I suppose the government could target the rebate, by having taxpayers submit information on their actual fuel costs paid, or miles driven, which is then used to calculate a rebate amount much like we submit records on fuel costs or mileage to the US government to calculate deductions for business mileage on our income tax returns.

But I rather expect that that is not the actual intent of the carbon tax .. it is really designed to punish the use of carbon fuels to make certain people feel superior to their betters in life.

Lose, lose, lose, no matter how you cut the pie.

MarkW
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2018 3:09 pm

It’s a give away from those who use lots of gas to those who don’t use much.
They are trying to bribe you to use less gas, using someone else’s money.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Do you realize the cost of bureaucracy to track the 620 top emitters of CO2 in Canada? The cost of writing the legislation and regulations, the wasted time promoting the carbon tax all the wasted time arguing about it, especially in parliament, the increase in inflation whether the firms switch to a more expensive non carbon fuel or whether they simply pay the tax, the increased costs to each firm of tracking their own emissions and reporting on it, ……etc . Not only will the tax increase every year but inflation will increase every year. After the 4 year period of increases in taxes and subsequent rebates to cover them, inflation will still remain, but there won’t be rebates after that 4 year period and the inflation will still be there. This Trudeau government is the most untrustworthy government in Canadian history. This is all madness based on computer models that are a fraud.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 19, 2018 5:37 am

The Canadians won’t be happy until one of their teams wins the Stanley Cup again.

Earthling2
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 19, 2018 6:40 am

I haven’t been to a protest since the 1960’s or 1970’s when I was on the front lines of the anti Vietnam and Amchitka protests as an idealistic youngster which led to the formation of GreenPeace. Which in the early days when spearheaded by Dr. Patrick Moore, at least on the actual science, it had some credibility and he was the only one trained in any science. Greenpeace was relevant in those early years, but not so much since..obviously.

Both of those were worthy of protest, and so is this stupidity on carbon taxes. I will sign up for a protest on this idiocy of climate change nonsense, because this is a worthy cause to highlight and let Govt’s know what the average folk think. If public policy is driven by protest unfortunately as seems to be the case the last 20 years with this climate porn being hustled everywhere, then the only way to kill it is to show up and protest. Count me in.

beng135
Reply to  Earthling2
November 19, 2018 9:11 am

and so is this stupidity on carbon taxes.

The US gov-marxists are more clever. They’ll make any carbon tax much better hidden than a straight, blatant tax on fuel. OK, maybe California et al aren’t smart enough to hide it…..

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
November 18, 2018 7:54 pm

The French elite had 1 thing right but for the wrong reason. They said that democracy was at stake. ALL OF DEMOCRACY IS AT STAKE OVER THIS STUPID SCAM OF GLOBAL WARMING.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 18, 2018 8:00 pm

Canadian carbon taxes are coming as of January1, 2019. It will pit the persons who own cars versus the persons who take buses. Since 78% of the adult population in Canada owns a motor vehicle including myself, we have the non vehicle greenies outnumbered.

sycomputing
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 18, 2018 8:22 pm

. . . we have the non vehicle greenies outnumbered.

Could it be that’s the whole point, Alan? In such a case you’re the “aggressor,” thence the “privileged,” and therefore the “problem” perhaps? Time for them to take you down?

Or not . . . I don’t really have any idea other than how “non vehicle” greenie philosophical sympaticos tend to think in the States.

HotScot
Reply to  sycomputing
November 18, 2018 11:49 pm

sycomputing

How can the majority in a democratic society be the aggressor?

sycomputing
Reply to  sycomputing
November 19, 2018 5:38 am

How can the majority in a democratic society be the aggressor?

Generally that’s seems to be how it’s working within the Progressive philosophical system right now, if I understand them, that is. Whomever prevents them from obtaining their goal(s) is a “majority” oppressor simply for that reason.

E.g., in the States, a movement has begun in our Universities to suggest that the “aggressor,” the “privileged,” and therefore the “problem” with which the world needs to deal is this dastardly ghost called the “White Man,” whomever he’s supposed to be.

Never mind that many of those professors who are calling for “WM” to be burned at the stake at sunset are also themselves “white.” And also never mind that these who would attempt to convince others of their position would, were they successful, then themselves become the majority. Will they then burn themselves at the stake?

MarkW
Reply to  sycomputing
November 19, 2018 6:39 am

“How can the majority in a democratic society be the aggressor?”

Slavery.

When the majority votes to takes away the property or the rights of the minority, then the majority is being an aggressor.
Might does not make right, and neither does being in the majority.

HotScot
Reply to  sycomputing
November 19, 2018 11:24 am

sycomputing

Sorry mate, that was supposed to be a rhetorical question, but very badly presented.

David A
Reply to  sycomputing
November 19, 2018 1:40 pm

Sycomputing says – ” How can the majority in a democratic society be the aggressor?”

Tis an odd question. Are ” two wolves and a sheep voting on the lunch menu” an aggressor to the solitary sheep?

David Wieland
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
November 19, 2018 8:15 am

Then there are those, such as my wife, who are absolutely convinced (by excessive TV) that AGW is real but have no interest in lifestyle changes.

HotScot
Reply to  David Wieland
November 19, 2018 11:32 am

David Wieland

Ask your wife to find the credible, empirically derived climate studies which demonstrate CO2 causes the planet to warm.

There are none, ever, never mind in the last 40 years of determined efforts to produce one.

Yet humanities future is being determined by a hypothesis that can’t be demonstrated.

Try it yourself first if you want. There should be dozens, if not hundreds of credentialed, peer reviewed, repeatable studies in 40 years of determined effort but so far, not one.

The only observable manifestation of atmospheric CO2’s effect on the planet is that it’s greened by 14% in 35 years of satellite navigation. There are NO observable negative effects.

And I’m sure you know all this but it’s worth reminding people as we all get caught up in the minutia of the debate.

David Wieland
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 3:15 pm

Oh, I know it well, but wifey is convinced that I’ve been blinded by “right wing” propaganda. I’m a mild-mannered optimist, but I hate Al Gore, Jim Hansen and the like for what they’ve done to us all.

Leo Smith
Reply to  Sweet Old Bob
November 18, 2018 9:14 pm

It has. One dead and France paralyzed.

Meanwhile Macron tells the UK not to leave the EU, says that France and Germany have always been partners and pushes the idea of creating an EU army.

you have no idea…

HotScot
Reply to  Leo Smith
November 18, 2018 11:42 pm

Leo Smith

And over 227 injured so far as of a BBC report on Saturday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46233560

Speaking on Wednesday, the president [Macron] blamed world oil prices for three-quarters of the price rise. He also said more tax on fossil fuels was needed to fund renewable energy investments.

We are led to believe renewables are cheap and compete with fossil fuel power yet taxes on fossil fuels are required to build new projects.

Just how does that make renewables cheap, efficient and ‘carbon’ neutral?

michael hart
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 4:40 am

Twenty or thirty years ago the BBC would make TV programs acknowledging the value of oil (and gas) as black gold, it’s importance and profitability underpinning the modern industrial economy. How North Sea Oil saved the UK from near-total economic collapse during the recession of the early 80’s, propped up the Government, the tax-base, and The Pound, and payed for unemployment benefits and welfare state in the UK.

Today, the same BBC pretends that we actually subsidize the fossil-fuel industry and that some very expensive erratic windmills can do the same and more, for much less.
They are either deeply stupid or deeply dishonest.

KT66
Reply to  michael hart
November 19, 2018 7:27 am

Both deeply stupid and deeply dishonest.

Reply to  michael hart
November 19, 2018 2:44 pm

KT66
+97.

Auto

John Endicott
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 6:36 am

the president [Macron] blamed world oil prices for three-quarters of the price rise.

Eh? Oil prices have been on a decline (and Trump is being “blamed”). They may be going up soon (OPEC is threatening to cut production).

bonbon
Reply to  Leo Smith
November 19, 2018 2:07 am

Macaroni’s finance mininster wants a european empire against what he calls the Russian empire, Chinese empire and US Empire.
A small man tried that before with his Grande Armee and met its Borodino. And all this at the 100 year WWI aniversary of the British Empire, French Empire, Russian Empire, Ottoman Empire, German Empire, AustroHungarian Empire slaughtering themselves. No wonder Hit-ler called Bonaparte his predecessor!

Ron Long
Reply to  Leo Smith
November 19, 2018 5:48 am

I have an idea, Leo. The Vichy French have returned! Remember, they supported that guy from Germany in WWII.

Al Miller
November 18, 2018 6:15 pm

I love it. The people are speaking. Listen up Trudeau, Butts et al!!

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Al Miller
November 19, 2018 1:45 am

Say No to The Trudeau Tax!

Ron
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
November 19, 2018 9:03 am

I hope he introduces the tax so that it will be a central issue in next years election.
Bring it on!

Ozonebust
November 18, 2018 6:18 pm

It appears the mood is spreading in Australia. The folks are revolting. (actually most of them are quite nice)
http://saltbushclub.com/
Regards

Reply to  Ozonebust
November 18, 2018 7:49 pm

Right on. We need a Grease Wood club here.

brians356
Reply to  Shelly Marshall
November 18, 2018 11:58 pm

We have the Sagebrush Rebellion here, but for a different cause, and not well attended (to understate it.)

John Endicott
Reply to  Ozonebust
November 19, 2018 6:42 am

The folks are revolting

King Louis XVI: You said it! They stink on ice!

Never miss the opportunity for a Mel Brooks movie reference (“History of the World: Part I” in this instance).

Duncan Smith
November 18, 2018 6:23 pm

The French revolted back in the 1700 against absolute monarchy. Possibly time to revolt against the CO2 monarchy, absolutely.

Bill In Oz
Reply to  Duncan Smith
November 18, 2018 8:07 pm

Macron will not face the guillotine. After all the French are more civilised now.

But in 1968 De Gaulle was forced to resign after nation wide protests and the country was effectively ungovernable..

Now that could well happen again in France now.

M__ S__
November 18, 2018 6:27 pm

I’m in France now. I saw on the BBC there were some issue—accidents—but the only yellowvest I saw in Aix-en-Provence was on a bicycle rider

Still, people do need to challenge any leadership that takes destructive measures with no evidence of 1)impact and 2 harm.

HotScot
Reply to  M__ S__
November 19, 2018 12:01 am

M__ S__

Increasing fuel prices is harmless?

It impacts on everything including food, clothing, medicines, leisure etc.

The benefit, of course, is subsidised, inefficient, intermittent, renewable energy projects.

But of course renewables are an attractive short term sticking plaster which allows efficient, reliable and safe nuclear power plants to be gradually decommissioned because they have been vilified by the greens and proper investment is needed to renew/refurbish the existing fleet.

It’s short term political virtue signalling to engender emotionally blackmailed voter popularity.

D. J. Hawkins
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 6:43 am

Slow your roll, HotScot. I believe you misread M_S_’s post.

M__ S__
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 9:58 am

I made zero arguments for these policies, I just pointed out that I had seen no disruption where I was

HotScot
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 11:44 am

M__ S__/D. J. Hawkins

Fair comments. Apologies M__ S__/.

Pop Piasa
November 18, 2018 6:28 pm

A French revolution… How original!😉
This one might even be more pivotal for the masses.

M__S__
Reply to  Pop Piasa
November 19, 2018 10:00 am

Or another reign of terror

I moved to Avignon from Aix today—researching a novel here (I started writing fiction when I retired as a physicist)

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  M__S__
November 19, 2018 1:01 pm

I started writing fiction when I retired as a physicist

You could probably get a job writing for the IPCC, then 🙂

Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 18, 2018 6:32 pm

It appears that Trump’s approval rating is higher than Macron’s?

Pop Piasa
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 18, 2018 6:54 pm

It’s higher than a Micron, for sure. Those who have seen the damage recognise the remediation more readily.

brians356
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 19, 2018 12:05 am

If we could get the Silent Majority in the US (especially scientists afraid to stand up for real science, but also just folks tired of being spoon fed the “clean” energy pablum) to open their windows and shout “We’re mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it anymore!” (hat tip to Paddy Chayefsky) it could possibly shatter or at least crack the AGW narrative.

Jtom
Reply to  Retired_Engineer_Jim
November 19, 2018 1:31 pm

Trump’s approval rating is higher than Obama’s was at this point in his presidency.

Patrick MJD
November 18, 2018 6:33 pm

Yes, this is what I have been watching recently. It hasn’t been covered by the English speaking MSM here in Aus, but other, international news is covered by SBS, the other Australian taxpayer funded national broadcaster but not as fully rabid left leaning as the ABC.

I admire the French on matters like this, they are always revolting.

JLC of Perth
Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 19, 2018 4:09 am

It’s in The Australian today.

November 18, 2018 6:39 pm

I wonder if Macron will back down.

HotScot
Reply to  Tom Halla
November 18, 2018 11:48 pm

Tom

Not a chance. Doubtless the revenue has already been stitched into the budgets so no chance of backing out of it.

John F. Hultquist
November 18, 2018 6:43 pm

What’s new?
France has been bubbling with this sort of thing for many years.
I think the first modern one of these I remember had wine imports as the spark.
1982 – wine from Italy
The government will back peddle some, life will go on — until next time.

Sad that folks get killed or hurt, and it is a great waste of the Nation’s wealth and well being.

Keith Bates
November 18, 2018 7:04 pm

Interesting that the ABC reported the protests were because of fuel price hikes, not carbon taxes.

Pop Piasa
Reply to  Keith Bates
November 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Same thing in different packaging, right?
Shows how shallow the average consumer thinks.

John the Econ
November 18, 2018 7:49 pm

Carbon taxes are a large component on the Progressive War on the Middle Class.

m
November 18, 2018 7:50 pm

Revolting against a tax, not against the Climate Change meme. Few understand the real meaning of the relationship between politics and Climate Change.

Karl
November 18, 2018 8:33 pm

The last time the French tried the ‘Let them eat cake’ idea, it didn’t work out so well for those who said it.

Leo Smith
Reply to  Karl
November 18, 2018 9:18 pm

i think it was brioche, not cake…

“Qu’ils mangent de la brioche

John Endicott
Reply to  Leo Smith
November 19, 2018 6:52 am

There’s some doubt as to whether she ever said it at all. Apparently, the “let them eat…” was told, in a slightly different form (it was the crust of pate rather than brioche or “cake”), about Marie-Thérèse, the Spanish princess who married King Louis XIV in 1660 (a century earlier) and several other royals in the time between the two were also attributed to the remark.

DonM
Reply to  John Endicott
November 19, 2018 1:05 pm

actually, in a fit of frustrated rage she said, “if they don’t like it they can just eat me”.

Her chief of staff put what he thought was a correct political spin on it and re-used the 1660 quote.

M E
Reply to  DonM
November 19, 2018 3:37 pm

More likely ‘cattle cake’ made of pease pods and often used in France by peasants in time of famine. Famines occurred often because of mismanagement the noble landowners being required to attend Court by the successive kings to keep the nobles themselves from organising rebellion against the State.

Michael Carter
November 18, 2018 9:35 pm

There is only one God: Economics. His wife is Nature – including the human kind
Cheers
M

bonbon
Reply to  Michael Carter
November 19, 2018 2:44 am

More precisely : Astronomy is the Queen of sciences, Economics the King.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Michael Carter
November 29, 2018 7:00 pm

Without astronomy no clocks, no calendars, no calendar months, no kowledge of the time to sow and no knowledge of the time to reap.

without astronomy no civilization.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Michael Carter
November 29, 2018 7:12 pm

Macron may not necessarily need a European army.

What he really wants is a budget for the EU.

And he will not get that.

no pasarán.
_________________________________________________

He pledged you Aussis and Quebecois to free you from your climate alarm scientists.

With the EU budget.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Michael Carter
November 29, 2018 7:19 pm

Astronomy Domine!

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Michael Carter
November 29, 2018 9:18 pm

You’re doing the female half of humanity a big bow with linking astronomy to the female half of humanity.

!

LdB
November 18, 2018 10:01 pm

He was a politician who strongly supported Climate Change, including imposing all the politics that goes along with that onto the people … What could possibly go wrong with that 🙂

Kabend
November 18, 2018 10:27 pm

It is a little bit more subtle : this is not against ‘carbon tax’ or ‘climate policy’, this is exclusively against gas price hikes, and taxes in general. Nobody is complaining or even talking about climate policies, this meme has simply … disapeared during those last 2 or 3 days, and no connection between the two can be seriously made, even if some politicians are trying to reintroduce the climate theme as a justification. But honestly everybody knows it has nothing to do with climate. Having said that, please understand that the climate meme is completely mainstream and succesful in France, skeptics are nonexistent, so people is not contesting that policies, they simply want somebody else to pay as they cannot afford it.

brians356
Reply to  Kabend
November 19, 2018 12:15 am

Nice. Having their cake and eating it, too. And just when I was changing my mind about the French people. “We are against taxing fossil fuels exorbitantly, but we wholeheartedly accept the AGW meme, and its dire predictions.”

kabend
Reply to  brians356
November 19, 2018 4:09 am

well, again this is a little bit more subtle than that: First, people are not wholeheartedly accepting the AGW meme, this is only the consequence of a real blitzkreig in terms of (mis)information and making people to feel guilty everyday in the news, laws, politics, even at school or at work. So it’s easy to blame “people” but they never asked for this. Amusingly, this meme was born in what we call the anglosaxon world, ie. british and north american, so you should not blame other people so easily without doing a clear examination of your own role in that respect. Second, the French “people” is not a monolithic thing, all aligned on the exact same views : Not surprinsingly, protestors are for the major part poor workers, retired people, and even if they don’t reject the mainstream meme, they don’t care about it. It’s not they are stupid inconsistent people, asking for one thing and its opposite, it’s just that the climate thing is not a priority compared to their immediate real needs : food, gas, energy, heating etc. In the other hand, journalists, politics, NGO etc. are really and wholeheartedly asking for exorbitant taxes, but not because they are French, because they are completely mainstream and not impacted in any way by their own measures.

bonbon
Reply to  kabend
November 19, 2018 4:40 am

Very good! Have a look around – Italy, Brexit, Trump, now gilets jaunes. It is not a local thing – its sweeping the transatlantic despite frantic mainstream attempts to hold it together.
The “elites” face something rather like the upheaval in 1989 when the Soviet collapsed, and they know it.
As Rosa Luxembourg clearly showed, without a future perspective it can turn nasty. We luckily now have the China BRI taking off – Trump knows this. VP Pence’s diatribe at ASEAN shows the neocon hysteria.
Time to build a new paradigm, instead of analysing small details.

As Schiller noted then about 1789 – a great moment has found a little people.

brians356
Reply to  kabend
November 19, 2018 11:02 am

Fair enough. You’d know best about the French people. I only have my personal experience traveling there, so I’m sure I missed significant subtlety and complexity. Let’s just say it wasn’t on display just then, and let it go at that.

HotScot
Reply to  Kabend
November 19, 2018 11:57 am

Kabend

The French riots against fuel duty hikes are even more effective than demonstrations against climate change could ever be because, of course, the science is settled.

These are demonstrations about the effects of the political implementation of climate change policy over which, the discussion of cost and impact to the common man is not debatable.

Macron has painted himself into a corner because he hasn’t been as cute as the British government who hide every tax they can by convoluting the route to the source. Most people in the UK don’t realise their escalating energy bills are a direct consequence of the Climate Change Act because, well…..what do energy bills have to do with the climate?

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Kabend
November 29, 2018 7:26 pm

Yes Kabend, the même is driven from the midst of society – everyone claims it and every otherone shall pay for.

piers
November 18, 2018 10:36 pm

I live in france and the mood is not good. The french government practically every month thinks of some new tax. The other day a deputy of macrons party wanted to put a tax the postal deliveries by companies such as amazon.
The government has gone anti carbon mad in france. In january they want to raise prices of diesel again by around 6 centimes a litre. They are going to ban the user of oil fired boilers from 2028. No new petrol or diesel cars are supposed to be sold from 2025. A few cities in france want to introduce tolls to enter the city and only certain types of car will be able to enter.

brians356
Reply to  piers
November 19, 2018 11:46 am

Do you agree that the French people generally do not attribute fuel tax raises to climate change madness?

HotScot
Reply to  piers
November 19, 2018 12:04 pm

piers

As Jordan B. Peterson said about Climate change, taxes are “Low resolution thinking” solutions to everything political.

Politicians with little imagination or analytical skills reaching for the first, easiest, and only solution they can conceive; extract more money from the taxpayer to chuck at problems that need intelligent thinking to solve, not more big government spending.

Jon O Beard
November 19, 2018 1:29 am

The French is the world’s largest exporter of electricity and derives 75% of it’s power from nuclear which provides inexpensive electricity. Currently they are dismantling much of the world’s cleanest power which has zero carbon emissions, pretending that the world’s most expensive and unreliable power sources can replace nuclear power. Comment muets peuvent-ils être?

flynn
Reply to  Jon O Beard
November 19, 2018 1:51 am

“muet” doesn’t mean what you think it means. “Comment peuvent-ils être aussi bêtes?” is what you’re looking for.

Ben Vorlich
November 19, 2018 1:29 am

Unfortunately one protester was killed on Saturday morning. A car driver panicked hit the accelerator and drove into a group of demonstrators.
The price hikes in fuel have coincided with an increase in oil prices, the unhappiness at the increases has been growing over the last 6 months and with more due in January the inevitable result was protests. This follows banning of polluting cars from Paris with other cities following forcing many to scrap vehicles. The reduction of speed limits on non-dual rods from 90 to 80kph , hitting virtually all rural areas. Sobthis year rural motorists have suffered va double whammy

There have been a couple of attempts to raise ecotaxes on transport most notably Segoline Royale who spent a huge amount on high-tech cameras only to abandon the whole thing when faced with the Bonnets Rouge. She also stopped a ban on wood fires in Paris

There are lots of subtle under currents which even expats living here miss, callin Macron Manu which upset him and caused a confrontation earlier this year.

Despite already assigning taxes to green energy there is a good chance that plans will be changed.

bonbon
November 19, 2018 2:39 am

Response of the Elysee : “checks of shame” . Handouts and subsidies for hybrid autos.

bonbon
November 19, 2018 2:55 am

The Mass Strike from Rosa Luxembourg : la grève de masse est, par principe, un phénomène qui prend au dépourvu tous les gouvernements, partis, syndicats établis. Cela peut être la meilleure ou la pire des choses. Cela peut devenir la meilleure des choses si cette révolte face à une situation impossible est alimentée par des solutions, des idées et des projets. Mais une grève de masse sans perspective d’avenir peut devenir terriblement destructrice…

So without a future perspective it can become terribly destructive. And there is such a perspective beckoning – the BRI, China’s Belt and Road initiative. It is not clear yet where Macron and the Elysee stand on this. The lurch to european imperialism still slouches around.

Carbon500
November 19, 2018 4:03 am

I admire the French for getting out there and protesting as they do – they do it SO well!
All the taxes in the world aren’t going to make a scrap of difference to the climate.
As a friend so succinctly puts it – ‘the world has gone mad.’

michael hart
November 19, 2018 4:28 am

The UK also introduced a “fuel tax escalator” in 1993 (by a Conservative government and was later increased by the Labour government). It was abandoned in 1999 after road haulier protests. Fuel tax is, of course, still very high and a significant fraction of the cost of UK fuel. But this was at least one of the crazy green ideas that came up against the buffer of reality sooner rather than later.

Moderately Cross of East Anglia
November 19, 2018 4:40 am

Emperor Penguin (Macron) thinks he can buy off all this anger with a 500 million euros bribe to enable people to buy hybrid cars. I think he might be wrong on this one.

HotScot
Reply to  Moderately Cross of East Anglia
November 19, 2018 12:10 pm

Moderately Cross of East Anglia

You might have seen the recent report by the BBC that most hybrid cars are bought by businesses. Obvious tactic as they are nicely subsidised, but that virtually none of the drivers ever charge them up so they are achieving no better mileage and emitting no less of those nasty CO2 molecules than a conventional ICE car.

But they have large uncharged batteries to haul around as well.

JimW
November 19, 2018 5:26 am

Its a strange contradictory world.
Trump is an individual enigma. Unfortunately his populist views are not shared by many in his own party. The general demographics in the US are against him. If the Dems find a charismatic challenger in 2020, they will win. The ‘French revolution’ philosophy is overwhelming the ‘American revolution’ philosophy in its own back yard.
Yet the French themselves continue to demonstrate that whilst they continue to cling lovingly to their social contract, they will not be pushed round by their Parisian elite who wish to join in the global ‘virtue signalling’ to climate change.
An ex-pat Brit living in both countries.

HotScot
Reply to  JimW
November 19, 2018 12:16 pm

JimW

The Dems have played the black card with Obama. They tried to play the gender card with Hilary. As far as I can see as a distant Brit in the UK, there are no US politicians currently with Presidential credentials who could out charisma Trump.

And as polarising and as unpopular as Thatcher was, she had a loyal following of Conservatives because she did what she promised, much like Trump is doing, only he’s being a bit more explicit and a bit less political about delivering his manifesto.

Jtom
Reply to  JimW
November 19, 2018 1:41 pm

If the Republicans would just run an ad that said,”If you like your job, you can keep your job. Vote Republican,” they would win easily. The ability to put food on the table is always the number one concern of voters. If they would keep pounding away on how good the economy is, and downplay all other issues, there would be no contest.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  JimW
November 29, 2018 7:47 pm

JimW, problem with you Brits is you don’t even know such thing as ‘Europe’.

When traveling to France you tell your peoples you’re going ‘to the continent’.

stephane
November 19, 2018 5:27 am

Hi there
As a reader of WUWT and living in France I can tell you that this revolt has nothing much to do with the Carbon Tax per se. This is really about Taxes in general and the rising price of fuel which is already highly taxed (60% of the price is due to various taxes) . Of course, the future hike due to the Carbon tax is adding to the overall rage but French people are not against Climate Change “mitigation” measures in general.
It looks like a tipping point has been reached for the middle class and they are not going to take it anymore.
Macron election was a hold-up, and the hold-up continues with all these rising taxes, there’s no end in sight…
Maybe the coming freezing temperatures will stop the street protests. I ‘m sure the government is counting on it ! ( which is adding to the irony !)
As for Climate Change in France no dissent of skeptical view is tolerated. You’re painted as nazi or a holocaust denier if you start to challenge the belief.
My favorite game is to count the number of “positive” references to “climate change” as the culprit of everything when watching the news or TV documentaries. Amusing and enraging at the same time 🙁

HotScot
Reply to  stephane
November 19, 2018 12:26 pm

stephane

As I mentioned somewhere above, whilst taxing people indirectly under the guise of carbon credits and renewable energy can’t be argued against because of course the science is settled, Macron had clumsily gone the direct route and taxed fuel. That’s easy to protest against because their is no emotional shield to hide behind.

The French are indignant, quite rightly, about ridiculous tax hikes for something they don’t understand because what has fuel taxes got to do with climate change. It directly impacts their lives and income of which there can be no argument. That science is most certainly settled.

Macron has painted himself into a corner over this one and exposed his political naivety.

Reply to  stephane
November 26, 2018 5:46 pm

How good is Marine LePen looking right about now?

stephane
Reply to  _Jim
November 26, 2018 11:30 pm

No so bad but I think anybody in this context can look better than Macron ! Every opposition parties are trying to piggyback on this movement but the Yellow vests want to stay away from politics and continue the grass root revolt. They want to have a meeting with the President and force him to revert his stance about taxes.

Difficult times ahead for Macron. He’s an outsider with no big party backing and his early supports are distancing away. He’s no more the press darling as it was during the Presidential election.

Interesting times for France…

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  _Jim
November 29, 2018 8:02 pm

Si vous ne parvenez pas à lire cet e-mail, cliquez ici

hfbg

DU 23 NOVEMBRE 2018

MACRONIE RIME AVEC MÉPRIS !

Cette semaine a illustré une fois encore cette faculté du Système d’Emmanuel Macron à mépriser tout ce qui ne lui ressemble pas.

Mépris d’abord pour les Français, pour ce peuple central qui se lève tôt pour travailler et paie des impôts, et qui lorsqu’il ose manifester contre la hausse des taxes se fait insulter de « beaufs », quand ce n’est pas même parfois de « fascistes ».

Mépris encore quand, malgré des années de lutte, le droit des femmes se voit bafouer par le Système et ses juges. En effet, ces derniers ont acquitté un réfugié du Bangladesh ayant violé une jeune lycéenne française, estimant que celui-ci ne disposait pas de nos « codes culturels » !

Face au mépris du Système, la colère des Français est totalement légitime. Et tant que le gouvernement restera sourd aux préoccupations quotidiennes des Français, il portera la lourde responsabilité de la radicalisation des contestations. Lors des prochaines échéances électorales, nous ferons entendre cette colère salvatrice : nous serons la voix du Peuple fier de ce qu’il est, fier d’être Français !

Je fais entendre ma voix, j’adhère au RN ››

> GILETS JAUNES : Le RN mobilisé !

Samedi 24 novembre, partout en France, les élus et les cadres du Rassemblement National répondront présents à l’appel des gilets jaunes pour défendre le pouvoir d’achat des Français. Pour ne plus subir, la mobilisation continue !

Témoignages des cadres du RN sur Twitter :

› INVITATION/COLLOQUE :
“De la délinquance à l’ensauvagement ?”

› FISCALITÉ – « Baisser les taxes et les impôts pour les Français, ma priorité » Marine Le Pen

Vidéo: “J’ai proposé pendant l’élection présidentielle de baisser les trois premières tranches de l’impôt sur le revenu de 10%. L’argent doit revenir aux Français !”
Marine Le Pen,
invitée de LCI-Le Figaro-RTL
(18/11/2018)

Voir et partager ››

CAHIER D’ACTIONS DU RN #3

“Pour une Justice qui protège”

Le troisième cahier d’actions du RN est disponible en téléchargement direct sur : http://www.rassemblementnational.fr

Je télécharge le cahier d’actions >

› EUROPE – Déplacement de Marine Le Pen à Sofia (Bulgarie)

Vidéo : « Notre projet est fondé sur la valeur cardinale que notre continent a enseigné au monde : la liberté, une valeur révolutionnaire dans l’UE tyrannique ! »L
Marine Le Pen,
Présidente du RN
(16/11/18)

Voir et partager ››

Zitierten Text ausblenden

———- Forwarded message ———
From: Rassemblement National
Date: Fr., 23. Nov. 2018, 18:17
Subject: La lettre du Rassemblement National du 23 novembre 2018 – La Macronie méprise les Français / Mobilisation des gilets jaunes / Fiscalité / Cahier d’actions du RN sur la justice / Marine Le Pen en Bulgarie
To:

Si vous ne parvenez pas à lire cet e-mail, cliquez ici

hfbg

DU 23 NOVEMBRE 2018

MACRONIE RIME AVEC MÉPRIS !

Cette semaine a illustré une fois encore cette faculté du Système d’Emmanuel Macron à mépriser tout ce qui ne lui ressemble pas.

Mépris d’abord pour les Français, pour ce peuple central qui se lève tôt pour travailler et paie des impôts, et qui lorsqu’il ose manifester contre la hausse des taxes se fait insulter de « beaufs », quand ce n’est pas même parfois de « fascistes ».

Mépris encore quand, malgré des années de lutte, le droit des femmes se voit bafouer par le Système et ses juges. En effet, ces derniers ont acquitté un réfugié du Bangladesh ayant violé une jeune lycéenne française, estimant que celui-ci ne disposait pas de nos « codes culturels » !

Face au mépris du Système, la colère des Français est totalement légitime. Et tant que le gouvernement restera sourd aux préoccupations quotidiennes des Français, il portera la lourde responsabilité de la radicalisation des contestations. Lors des prochaines échéances électorales, nous ferons entendre cette colère salvatrice : nous serons la voix du Peuple fier de ce qu’il est, fier d’être Français !

Je fais entendre ma voix, j’adhère au RN ››

> GILETS JAUNES : Le RN mobilisé !

Samedi 24 novembre, partout en France, les élus et les cadres du Rassemblement National répondront présents à l’appel des gilets jaunes pour défendre le pouvoir d’achat des Français. Pour ne plus subir, la mobilisation continue !

Témoignages des cadres du RN sur Twitter :

› INVITATION/COLLOQUE :
“De la délinquance à l’ensauvagement ?”

› FISCALITÉ – « Baisser les taxes et les impôts pour les Français, ma priorité » Marine Le Pen

Vidéo: “J’ai proposé pendant l’élection présidentielle de baisser les trois premières tranches de l’impôt sur le revenu de 10%. L’argent doit revenir aux Français !”
Marine Le Pen,
invitée de LCI-Le Figaro-RTL
(18/11/2018)

Voir et partager ››

CAHIER D’ACTIONS DU RN #3

“Pour une Justice qui protège”

Le troisième cahier d’actions du RN est disponible en téléchargement direct sur : http://www.rassemblementnational.fr

Je télécharge le cahier d’actions >

› EUROPE – Déplacement de Marine Le Pen à Sofia (Bulgarie)

Vidéo : « Notre projet est fondé sur la valeur cardinale que notre continent a enseigné au monde : la liberté, une valeur révolutionnaire dans l’UE tyrannique ! »L
Marine Le Pen,
Présidente du RN
(16/11/18)

Voir et partager ››

———- Forwarded message ———
From: Rassemblement National
Date: Fr., 23. Nov. 2018, 18:17
Subject: La lettre du Rassemblement National du 23 novembre 2018 – La Macronie méprise les Français / Mobilisation des gilets jaunes / Fiscalité / Cahier d’actions du RN sur la justice / Marine Le Pen en Bulgarie
To:

Si vous ne parvenez pas à lire cet e-mail, cliquez ici

hfbg

DU 23 NOVEMBRE 2018

MACRONIE RIME AVEC MÉPRIS !

Cette semaine a illustré une fois encore cette faculté du Système d’Emmanuel Macron à mépriser tout ce qui ne lui ressemble pas.

Mépris d’abord pour les Français, pour ce peuple central qui se lève tôt pour travailler et paie des impôts, et qui lorsqu’il ose manifester contre la hausse des taxes se fait insulter de « beaufs », quand ce n’est pas même parfois de « fascistes ».

Mépris encore quand, malgré des années de lutte, le droit des femmes se voit bafouer par le Système et ses juges. En effet, ces derniers ont acquitté un réfugié du Bangladesh ayant violé une jeune lycéenne française, estimant que celui-ci ne disposait pas de nos « codes culturels » !

Face au mépris du Système, la colère des Français est totalement légitime. Et tant que le gouvernement restera sourd aux préoccupations quotidiennes des Français, il portera la lourde responsabilité de la radicalisation des contestations. Lors des prochaines échéances électorales, nous ferons entendre cette colère salvatrice : nous serons la voix du Peuple fier de ce qu’il est, fier d’être Français !

Je fais entendre ma voix, j’adhère au RN ››

> GILETS JAUNES : Le RN mobilisé !

Samedi 24 novembre, partout en France, les élus et les cadres du Rassemblement National répondront présents à l’appel des gilets jaunes pour défendre le pouvoir d’achat des Français. Pour ne plus subir, la mobilisation continue !

Témoignages des cadres du RN sur Twitter :

› INVITATION/COLLOQUE :
“De la délinquance à l’ensauvagement ?”

› FISCALITÉ – « Baisser les taxes et les impôts pour les Français, ma priorité » Marine Le Pen

Vidéo: “J’ai proposé pendant l’élection présidentielle de baisser les trois premières tranches de l’impôt sur le revenu de 10%. L’argent doit revenir aux Français !”
Marine Le Pen,
invitée de LCI-Le Figaro-RTL
(18/11/2018)

Voir et partager ››

CAHIER D’ACTIONS DU RN #3

“Pour une Justice qui protège”

Le troisième cahier d’actions du RN est disponible en téléchargement direct sur : http://www.rassemblementnational.fr

Je télécharge le cahier d’actions >

› EUROPE – Déplacement de Marine Le Pen à Sofia (Bulgarie)

Vidéo : « Notre projet est fondé sur la valeur cardinale que notre continent a enseigné au monde : la liberté, une valeur révolutionnaire dans l’UE tyrannique ! »L
Marine Le Pen,
Présidente du RN
(16/11/18)

Voir et partager ››

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  _Jim
November 29, 2018 8:19 pm

Das Problem ‘auf dem Kontinent’ ist:

Hier wurde das Wort ‘Nation’ zur herabwürdigenden Bezeichnung.

Wer als ‘Nationalist’ etikettiert wurde hat sich damit ausser aller Konventionen begeben und wird weniger beachtet als ein Papierkübel.

In Ewigkeit. Amen.
_______________________________________________

The problem ‘on the continent’ is:

Here the word ‘nation’ became a derogatory term.

Anyone who has been labeled as a ‘nationalist’ is thus set outside all conventions and gets payd less attention than a paper bucket.
_______________________________________________

old construction worker
November 19, 2018 5:56 am

It’s only a matter of time when the rest of the world will not import goods and services from countries impose high taxes on their goods and services. The end consumers pay all taxes on goods and services. And, yes, Progressives Socialist or Fascism will run out of other people’s money.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  old construction worker
November 19, 2018 12:43 pm

Not to mention the increased cost of getting the over priced goods to market using carbon taxes on the flights and upgrade costs on the ships.

Flight Level
November 19, 2018 6:10 am

France is just next door. TV + Media are entirely devoted to one thing: -Mine the green vein.
A perpetual background noise reminder that there’s still money left to fetch from the population.
That other day te crew hauler showed with an otherwise expensive full options German luxury hybrid. He stated the close to 160’000 € initial price tag pays for itself in less than a year. Tax deductions, incentives, public image when contracting fares.
That’s at least 430€ plus the driver’s salary each day. Who pays ?
Everyone. That’s how democracy works. Corporates contract green haulers, price does not matter. Then distribute the costs to their customers. Democratically.
What a shame…

HotScot
Reply to  Flight Level
November 19, 2018 12:37 pm

Flight Level

If I get you right, it’s not the driver/owners fault that the system can be leveraged by business to it’s advantage. That’s businesses job, to ensure every means possible is exploited to express a profit. It’s a governments fault for having ridiculously convoluted tax laws even they can’t interpret, riddled with loopholes professional, profitable, accountants can exploit to their clients benefit.

Governments are clumsy instruments of financial management. They ought to stick to their original brief of using income tax to protecting their borders. The first general income tax, 1p in £1 was introduced by the British Government to pay for the Napoleonic wars. It has since been distorted to fight every battle a minority group can convince governments to fight on its behalf.

Flight Level
Reply to  HotScot
November 19, 2018 3:11 pm

That sounds pretty much as an apology to organized crime. No business based on depleting people’s budgets by ever increasing prices can remain operational for longer than imposed by law.

Happens that prince Macron knows that he has very limited time to cash in on corporate gratitude.

While Mr. Trump has what it takes to consider his presidency as a non-profit operation.

Which is why all Macronites around the world hate the way he spoils their profits.

Yes Macronites. The very same ones who’ll push forwards nonsensical green agendas while chartering liners for 35 minutes chock to chock legs. And leave the VIP area in chauffeur driven hybrids.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Flight Level
November 30, 2018 6:35 am

“That other day te crew hauler showed with an otherwise expensive full options German luxury hybrid. He stated the close to 160’000 € initial price tag pays for itself in less than a year. ”

Austrian states Kabel TV – you have to pay regardless of owning a TV set –

jubileed about rocketing electro mobility: Porsche anounced a luxury electro SUV ready made for sale.

maybe states Kable TV moderators earn enough to by Porsche elektro SUVs.

Steve O
November 19, 2018 7:14 am

Well OF COURSE they’re persecuting drivers. That’s the whole point. These policies put in place with majority support from voters.

I wonder how many of these protesters were themselves critical of Trump for not being swept along by the insanity.

MarkW
Reply to  Steve O
November 19, 2018 8:09 am

They want the problem solved. It’s just that they want someone else to pay the price.
They never imagined that they would have to shoulder part of the burden.

drednicolson
Reply to  MarkW
November 19, 2018 10:09 am

End pork shortages NOW! Hey, hands off my piglets!

ResourceGuy
November 19, 2018 8:21 am

Just double the tax now for double the “out of the abundance of caution” positioning. They won’t mind in France or California and NY.

November 19, 2018 8:49 am

Go gilets jaunes!
It will greatly help if you claim righteousness by pointing out that life increases in warmer temperatures. When do you mow your grass? Wasn’t Mann’s research about tree ring GROWTH?
What is a “climate optimum?”

Dave
November 19, 2018 9:22 am

This guys sounds like an American Democrat.

“We choose to tax pollution and harmful products rather than workers,” budget minister Gérald Darmanin explains. Yet the fuel taxes penalise the poor disproportionately.

Kevin McNeill
November 19, 2018 9:27 am

“Let them eat cake”

Derg
November 19, 2018 10:54 am

In other news….MN recently elected a governor who ran on increasing the gas tax 🙁

How can people be so dumb?

Farmer Ch E retired
November 19, 2018 11:00 am

“”A senior adviser to Macron spoke . . . . “I have the feeling that our democracy is also at stake.”’

Just wait until the temperature heads further south. There will be torches and pitch forks in the streets.

Peta of Newark
November 19, 2018 11:42 am

I understood the ‘Eat cake’ thing came out of the idea of the ‘Bakers Dozen’ – wherein (bread) bakers were always regarded as crooks and overcharged their customers.
Typically English bakers would give you 13 loaves for the price of 12 – hence Baker’s Dozen

But French bakers got round it by overfilling their baking tins before putting them in the oven.
Of course the bread expanded as it cooked and would touch the hot walls of the oven and become blackened & burnt.
This would then be cut off at the point of sale, to demonstrate to the customer that the baker was not a cheating lying crook.
The cut off bits were referred to as ‘cake’ and typically fed to pigs.
Hence Marie Antionette was saying to the serfs:
“If you’re hungry, why not eat pig food”

Interesting though, part of the reason she did lose her head was via the addition of chalk to flour.
To make it ‘go further’

But in these Modern Times, we find that chalk is added to flour for its ‘Health Benefits’
Amazing eh?
Didn’t do Marie’s health a bundle of good that’s fo’sure

Also we find Vitamins C and B are routinely added to modern flour.
Why is that deemed to be necessary? What have vegetarians to say about that?

Meantime in the UK, why is the price of petrol falling and diesel not?
I smell a racket…..

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Peta of Newark
November 19, 2018 1:13 pm

Meantime in the UK, why is the price of petrol falling and diesel not?
I smell a racket…..

Same here in Oz. For years diesel had been cheaper than petrol, now it’s much more expensive (or, as you say, it’s not going down).

I suspect it’s because of the enforcement of the use of diesel for shipping to replace fuel oil.

MarkW
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
November 19, 2018 3:15 pm

Diesel was cheaper then petrol back when only truckers used it.
Once passenger cars started to be converted to burn diesel the price went up.

Steven Hill
Reply to  MarkW
November 19, 2018 4:11 pm

I don’t agree with this at all. The EPA caused the extra usage with the reduction of MPG caused by the new law.

Reply to  Steven Hill
November 26, 2018 5:53 pm

EPA demands _lower_ Sulphur content, which increases the processing cost.

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  MarkW
November 19, 2018 6:32 pm

Markw

Diesel was cheaper then petrol back when only truckers used it.
Once passenger cars started to be converted to burn diesel the price went up.

That may be US centric view?
Not here in Australia, nor in Europe nor the UK. It has fluctuated a lot, and still does year by year, sometimes month by month.

I don’t know why. I used to think it was taxation, but the rapid fluctuations in Australia prove that wrong. Nobody I’ve asked in the retail end have the slightest clue.

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
November 19, 2018 6:38 pm

Zig Zag, MarkW is clueless

drednicolson
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
November 20, 2018 8:49 am

In SE Oklahoma, at the EZMart station where I usually fill up, diesel tends to stay a little more expensive than ethanol-free gasoline/petrol. On a few occasions it’s been slightly cheaper. They’ve got two ethanol-free pumps there that I avail myself of.

gringojay
Reply to  Peta of Newark
November 19, 2018 1:38 pm

Ascorbic acid, vitamin C, is used by commercial bread makers because in measured proportions it favors faster rising & not only makes a thinner crust possible but changes structural parameters so when customers compress the loaf getting it home it will rebound. There are other desirable dynamics as well.

Viramin B6, B12 & B9 (folic acid) were introduced into bread flour for risk reduction of neural tube defects in many countries where bread was a significant dietary item.

Home & some artesanal bakers can always find a way to omit these, even if must grind their own flour. So, no they are not indispensably necessay.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Peta of Newark
November 19, 2018 11:23 pm

More likely, she never said it.

ResourceGuy
November 19, 2018 12:05 pm

It was the city gate tax around Paris that was the flash point among other factors for the French Revolution. That took underestimation on the part of elites for the response and overestimation of the power of the State to get away with it.

ResourceGuy
November 19, 2018 12:08 pm

And so the Carbon Scam Wars began as a backlash by the people one road block at a time.

ResourceGuy
November 19, 2018 12:16 pm

This may not end well for everyone, including those watching from the sidelines. The auto industry of the EU betting on electric, consumers pushed around by virtue advocacy signaling, political parties in flux, Brexit, and sovereign debt. You can pick your poison but it’s more likely a combination of all of them together…plus cold winters starting up from the AMO cycle working against all of them.

Thomas Homer
November 19, 2018 12:31 pm

Je suis Carbon

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Thomas Homer
November 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Moi aussi! Et toute la monde!

ResourceGuy
November 19, 2018 12:49 pm

I guess the climate propaganda campaign was not as effective in softening up the enemy (citizen car owners) as the advertising consultants claimed.

Steven Hill (from Ky)
November 19, 2018 1:27 pm

Thank God Trump is in here……

John Boland
Reply to  Steven Hill (from Ky)
November 19, 2018 9:05 pm

Amen to that brother!

Mark Luhman
November 20, 2018 8:36 pm

I just wish the truckers would shutdown for one week here, Maybe the Coast might figure out just how little they produce and who they are truly dependent on. Hopefully that will kill AGW nonsense for now and that the thinking that somehow flyover country don’t count. It is really stupid for those who produce no energy, fiber, raw materials or food somehow think 90% of the US population that does, are idiots and useless.

Johann Wundersamer
November 27, 2018 1:20 am

– to block roads, [which] is punishable by two years in prison and a €4,500 fine. Interior minister Christophe Castaner says no “total blockage” will be tolerated.

– The French government approved a measure in late 2017 increasing a direct tax on diesel as well as a tax on carbon. … The cause of the price hikes are “eco taxes” meant to dissuade the French from using cars.
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So Macron won’t leave it by

blocking roads, which is punishable by two years in prison and a €4,500 fine.

his “eco taxes” [are] meant to dissuade ALL French from using cars.
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That’s more then “blocking roads”:

What about condemning Macron with

( two years in prison + €4,500 fine ) * ( blocked workers )

Johann Wundersamer
November 29, 2018 9:03 pm

Das ist wirklich ein spannender Thread.

Der spannendste WUWT thread ever.

Thanks all contributers!

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