Guest essay by Pat Frank
Today’s offering is a morality tale about the clash of honesty with self-interest, of integrity with income, and of arrogance with ignorance.
I’m bringing out the events below for general perusal only because they’re a perfect miniature of the sewer that is consensus climatology.
And also because corrupt practice battens in the dark. With Anthony’s help, we’ll let in some light.
On November third Anthony posted about a new statistical method of evaluating climate models, published in “Geoscientific Model Development” (GMD), a journal then unfamiliar to me.
WUWT readers will remember my recent post about unsuccessful attempts to publish on error propagation and climate model reliability. So I thought, “A new journal to try!”
Copernicus Publications publishes Geoscientific Model Development under the European Geosciences Union.
The Journal advertises itself as, “an international scientific journal dedicated to the publication and public discussion of the description, development, and evaluation of numerical models of the Earth system and its components.”
It welcomes papers that include, “new methods for assessment of models, including work on developing new metrics for assessing model performance and novel ways of comparing model results with observational data.”
GMD is the perfect Journal for the new method of model evaluation by propagation of calibration error.
So I gave it a try, and submitted my manuscript, “Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections“; samizdat manuscript here (13.5 mb pdf). Copernicus assigned a “topical editor” by reference to manuscript keywords.
My submission didn’t last 24 hours. It was rapidly rejected and deleted from the journal site.
The topical editor was Dr. James Annan, a climate modeler. Here’s what he wrote in full:
“Topical Editor Initial Decision: Reject (07 Nov 2017) by James Annan
“Comments to the Author:
“This manuscript is silly and I’d be embarrassed to waste the time of reputable scientists by sending it out for review. The trivial error of the author is the assumption that the ~4W/m^2 error in cloud forcing is compounded on an annual basis. Nowhere in the manuscript it is explained why the annual time scale is used as opposed to hourly, daily or centennially, which would make a huge difference to the results. The ~4W/m^2 error is in fact essentially time-invariant and thus if one is determined to pursue this approach, the correct time scale is actually infinite. Of course this is what underpins the use of anomalies for estimating change, versus using the absolute temperatures. I am confident that the author has already had this pointed out to them on numerous occasions (see refs below) and repeating this process in GMD will serve no useful purpose.”
Before I parse out the incompetent wonderfulness of Dr. Annan’s views, let’s take a very relevant excursion into GMD’s ethical guidelines about conflict of interest.
But if you’d like to anticipate the competence assessment, consult the 12 standard reviewer mistakes. Dr. Annan managed many ignorant gaffes in that one short paragraph.
But on to ethics: GMD’s ethical guidelines for editors include:
“An editor should give unbiased consideration to all manuscripts offered for publication…”
“Editors should avoid situations of real or perceived conflicts of interest in which the relationship could bias judgement of the manuscript.”
Copernicus Publications goes further and has a specific “Competing interests policy” for editors:
“A conflict of interest takes place when there is any interference with the objective decision making by an editor or objective peer review by the referee. Such secondary interests could be financial, personal, or in relation to any organization. If editors or referees encounter their own conflict of interest, they have to declare so and – if necessary – renounce their role in assessing the respective manuscript.”
In a lovely irony, my cover letter to chief editor Dr. Julia Hargreaves made this observation and request:
“Unfortunately, it is necessary to draw to your attention the very clear professional conflict of interest for any potential reviewer reliant on climate models for research. The same caution applies to a reviewer whose research is invested in the consensus position concerning the climatological impact of CO2 emissions.
“Therefore, it is requested that the choice of reviewers be among scientists who do not suffer such conflicts.
“I do understand that this study presents a severe test of professional integrity. Nevertheless I have confidence in your commitment to the full rigor of science.“
It turns out that Dr. Annan is co-principal of Blue Sky Research, Inc. Ltd., a for-profit company that offers climate modeling for hire, and that has at least one corporate contract.
Is it reasonable to surmise that Dr. Annan might have a financial conflict of interest with a critically negative appraisal of climate model reliability?
Is it another reasonable surmise that he may possibly have a strong negative, even reflexive, rejectionist response to a study that definitively finds climate models to have no predictive value?
In light of his very evident financial conflicts of interest, did editor Dr. Annan recuse himself knowing the actuality, not just the image, of a serious and impending impropriety? Nope.
It gets even better, though.
Dr. Julia Hargreaves is the GMD Chief Executive Editor. I cc’d her on the email correspondence with the Journal (see below). It is her responsibility to administer journal ethics.
Did she remove Dr. Annan? Nope.
I communicated Dr. Annan’s financial and professional conflicts of interest to Copernicus Publications (see the emails below). The Publisher is the ultimate administrator of Journal ethics.
Did the publisher step in to excuse Dr. Annan? Nope.
It also turns out that GMD Chief Executive Editor Dr. Julia Hargreaves is the other co-principal of Blue Sky Research, Inc. Ltd.
She shares the identical financial conflict of interest with Dr. Annan.
Julia Hargreaves and James Annan are also a co-live-in couple, perhaps even married.
One can’t help but wonder if there was a dinner-table conversation.
Is Julia capable of administering James’ obvious financial conflict of interest violation? Apparently no more than is James.
Is Julia capable of administering her own obvious financial conflict of interest? Does James have free rein at GMD, Julia’s Executive Editorship withal? Evidently, the answers are no and yes.
Should financially conflicted Julia and James have any editorial responsibilities at all, at a respectable Journal pretending critical appraisals of climate models?
Both Dr. Annan and Dr. Hargreaves also have a research focus on climate modeling. Any grant monies depend on the perceived efficacy of climate models.
They will have a separate professional conflict of interest with any critical study of climate models that comes to negative conclusions.
So much for conflict of interest.
Let’s proceed to Dr. Annan’s technical comments. This will be brief.
We can note his very unprofessional first sentence and bypass it in compassionate silence.
He wrote, “… ~4W/m^2 error in cloud forcing…” except it is ±4 W/m^2 not Dr. Annan’s positive sign +4 W/m^2. Apparently for Dr. Annan, ± = +.
And ±4 W/m^2 is a calibration error statistic, not an energetic forcing.
That one phrase alone engages mistakes 2, 4, and 6.
How does it happen that a PhD in mathematics does not understand rms (root-mean-square) and cannot distinguish a “±” from a “+”?
How comes a PhD mathematician unable to discern a physically real energy from a statistic?
Next, “the assumption that the [error] is compounded on an annual basis”
That “assumption” is instead a demonstration. Ten pages of the manuscript are dedicated to showing the error arises within the models, is a systematic calibration error, and necessarily propagates stepwise.
Dr. Annan here qualifies for the honor of mistakes 4 and 5.
Next, “Nowhere in the manuscript it is explained why the annual time scale is used as opposed to hourly, daily or centennially,…”
Exactly “why” was fully explained in manuscript Section 2.4.1 (pp. 28-30), and the full derivation was provided in Supporting Information Section 6.2.
Dr. Annan merits a specialty award for extraordinarily careless reading.
On to, “The ~4W/m^2 error is in fact essentially time-invariant…”
Like Mr. andthentheresphysics, Nick Stokes, and Dr. Patrick Brown, Dr. Annan apparently does not understand that a time average is a statistic conveying, ‘mean magnitude per time-unit.’ This concept is evidently not covered in the Ph.D.
And then, “the correct time scale is actually infinite.”
Except it’s not infinite, (see above), but here Dr. Annan has made a self-serving interpretative choice. Dr. Annan actually wrote that his +4 W/m^2 is “time-invariant,” which is also consistent with an infinitely short time. The propagated uncertainty is then also infinite; good job, Dr. Annan.
Penultimately, “this is what underpins the use of anomalies for estimating change…”
Dr. Annan again assumed ±4 W/m^2 statistic is a constant +4 W/m^2 physical offset error, reiterating mistakes 4, 6, 7, and 9.
And it’s always nice to finish up with an irony: “I am confident that the author has already had this pointed out to them on numerous occasions…”
In this, finally, Dr. Annan is correct (except grammatically; referencing a singular noun with a plural pronoun).
I have yet to encounter a single climate modeler who understands:
- that “±” is not “+,”
- that an error statistic is not a physical energy,
- that taking anomalies does not remove physical uncertainty,
- that models can be calibrated at all,
- or that systematic calibration error propagates through subsequent calculations.
Dr. Annan now joins that chorus.
The predominance of mathematicians among climate modelers, like Dr. Annan, explains why climate modeling is in such a shambles.
Dr. Annan’s publication list illustrates the problem. Not one paper concerns incorporating new physical theory into a model. Climate modeling is all about statistics.
It hardly bears mentioning that statistics is not physics. But that absolutely critical distinction is obviously lost on climate modelers, and even on consensus-supporting scientists.
None of these people are scientists. None of them know how to think scientifically.
They have made the whole modeling enterprise a warm little pool of Platonic idealism, untroubled by the cold relentless currents of science and its dreadfully impersonal tests of experiment, observation, and physical error.
In their hands, climate models have become more elaborate but not more accurate.
In fact, apart from Lindzen and Choi’s Iris theory, there doesn’t seem to have been any advance in the physical theory of climate since at least 1990.
Such is the baleful influence on science of unconstrained mathematical idealism.
The whole Journal response reeks of fake ethics and arrogant incompetence.
In my opinion, GMD ethics have proven to be window dressing on a house given over to corruption; a fraud.
Also in my opinion, this one episode is emblematic of all of consensus climate science.
Finally, the email traffic is reproduced below.
My responses to the Journal pointed out Dr. Annan’s conflict of interest and obvious errors. On those grounds, I asked that the manuscript be reinstated. I always cc’d GMD Chief Executive Editor Dr. Julia Hargreaves.
The Journal remained silent, no matter even the clear violations of its own ethical pronouncements; as did Dr. Hargreaves.
1. GMD’s notice of rejection:
From: editorial@xxx.xxx
Subject: gmd-2017-281 (author) – manuscript not accepted
Date: November 7, 2017 at 6:07 AM
To: pfrankxx@xxx.xxx
Dear Patrick Frank,
We regret that your following submission was not accepted for publication in GMD:
Title: Propagation of Error and the Reliability of Global Air Temperature Projections
Author(s): Patrick Frank
MS No.: gmd-2017-281
MS Type: Methods for assessment of models
Iteration: Initial Submission
You can view the reasons for this decision via your MS Overview: http://editor.copernicus.org/GMD/my_manuscript_overview
To log in, please use your Copernicus Office user ID xxxxx.
We thank you very much for your understanding and hope that you will consider GMD again for the publication of your future scientific papers.
In case any questions arise, please contact me.
Kind regards,
Natascha Töpfer
Copernicus Publications
Editorial Support
editorial@xxx.xxx
on behalf of the GMD Editorial Board
+++++++++++++++
2. My first response:
From: Patrick Frank pfrankxx@xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: gmd-2017-281 (author) – manuscript not accepted
Date: November 7, 2017 at 7:46 PM
To: editorial@xxx.xxx
Cc: jules@xxx.xxx.xxx
Dear Ms. Töpfer,
Dr. Annan has a vested economic interest in climate modeling. He does not qualify as editor under the ethical conflict of interest guidelines of the Journal.
Dr. Annan’s posted appraisal is factually, indeed fatally, incorrect.
Dr. Annan wrongly claimed the ±4 W/m^2 annual error is explained “nowhere in the manuscript.” It is explained on page 30, lines 571-584.
The full derivation is provided in Supporting Information Section 6.2.
There is no doubt that the ±4 W/m^2 is an annual calibration uncertainty.
One can only surmise that Dr. Annan did not read the manuscript before coming to his decision.
Dr. Annan also made the naïve error of supposing that the ±4 W/m^2 calibration uncertainty is a constant offset physical error.
Plus/minus cannot be constant positive (or negative). It cannot be subtracted away in an anomaly.
Dr. Annan’s rejection is not only scientifically unjustifiable. It is not even scientific.
I ask that Dr. Annan be excused on ethical grounds, and on the grounds of an obviously careless and truly incompetent initial appraisal.
I further respectfully ask that the manuscript be reinstated and re-assigned to an alternative editor who is capable of non-partisan stewardship.
Thank-you for your consideration,
Pat
Patrick Frank, Ph.D.
Palo Alto, CA 94301
email: pfrankxx@xxx.xxx
++++++++++++++++
3. Journal response #1: silence.
+++++++++++++
4. My second response:
From: Patrick Frank pfrankxx@xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: gmd-2017-281
Date: November 8, 2017 at 8:08 PM
To: editorial@xxx.xxx
Cc: jules@xxx.xxx.xxx
Dear Ms. Töpfer,
One suspects the present situation is difficult for you. So, let me make things plain.
I am a Ph.D. physical methods experimental chemist with emphasis in X-ray spectroscopy. I work at Stanford University.
My email address there is xxx@xxx.edu, if you would like to verify my standing.
I have 30+ years of experience, international collaborators, and an extensive publication record.
My most recent paper is Patrick Frank, et al., (2017) “Spin-Polarization-Induced Pre-edge Transitions in the Sulfur K‑Edge XAS Spectra of Open-Shell Transition-Metal Sulfates: Spectroscopic Validation of σ‑Bond Electron Transfer” Inorganic Chemistry 56, 1080-1093; doi: 10.1021/acs.inorgchem.6b00991.
Physical error analysis is routine for me. Manuscript gmd-2017-281 strictly focuses on physical error analysis.
Dr. Annan is a mathematician. He has no training in the physical sciences. He has no training or experience in assessing systematic physical error and its impacts.
He is unlikely to ever have made a measurement, or worked with an instrument, or to have propagated systematic physical error through a calculation.
A survey of Dr. Annan’s publication titles shows no indication of physical error analysis.
His comments on gmd-2017-281 reveal no understanding of the physical uncertainty deriving from model calibration error.
He evidently does not realize that physical knowledge statements are conditioned by physical uncertainty.
Dr. Annan has no training in physical error analysis. He has no experience with physical error analysis. He has never engaged the systematic error that is the focus of gmd-2017-281.
Dr. Annan is not qualified to evaluate the manuscript. He is not competent to be the manuscript editor. He is not competent to be a reviewer.
Dr. Annan’s comments on gmd-2017-281 are no more than ignorant.
This is all in addition to Dr. Annan’s very serious conflict of financial and professional interest with the content of gmd-2017-281.
Journal ethics demand that he should have immediately recused himself. However, he did not do so.
I ask you to reinstate gmd-2017-281 and assign a competent and ethical editor capable of knowledgeable and impartial review.
Geoscientific Model Development can be a Journal devoted to science.
Or it can play at nonsense.
The choice is yours.
I will not bother you further, of course. Silence will be evidence of your choice for nonsense.
Best wishes,
Pat
Patrick Frank, Ph.D.
Palo Alto, CA 94301
email: pfrankxx@xxx.xxx
++++++++++++++++++
5. Journal response #2: silence.
++++++++++++++++++
The journal has remained silent as of 11 November 2017.
They have chosen to play at nonsense. So chooses all of consensus climate so-called science.
Pat gets the time scale wrong
https://youtu.be/rmTuPumcYkI?t=15m42s
no Mosh. Time in-variant means it does not change from year to year.
Why continue to display you total LACK of any mathematical training.?
He’s not even a number fiddler.
Again, here, Steve Mosher has linked only the youtube version of Patrick Brown’s video.
At the site of the original posting of that video, Patrick Brown and I had a long conversation.
I invite everyone to visit there and read through.
Patrick Brown’s analysis did not survive critical analysis; something for which Steve Mosher has never demonstrated an aptitude.
This is where I agree with Dr. Frank: “My most recent paper is Patrick Frank, et al., (2017) “Spin-Polarization-Induced Pre-edge Transitions in the Sulfur K‑Edge XAS Spectra of Open-Shell Transition-Metal Sulfates: Spectroscopic Validation of σ‑Bond Electron Transfer” Inorganic Chemistry 56, 1080-1093; doi: 10.1021/acs.inorgchem.6b00991.
Physical error analysis is routine for me. Manuscript gmd-2017-281 strictly focuses on physical error analysis.”
I’ve done this. The things discussed in his previous essay were also drilled into my head.
Talk about people talking past each other using the ‘same’ language. The kind of stuff done by climate scientists would have gotten an “F” in my chemistry lab classes. Yeah, the lab classes where previously described experiments get replicated. So when I do a bomb calorimetry setup and get a different number from the book, if I’ve done my error analysis correctly, I can then show why my result differed.
The part where critics are going wrong is they don’t get their head around the fact the errors are a “random walk”.
The errors can’t be contained with a simple offset, because they are unpredictable. Just as you can’t predict the physical error with some types of laboratory measurement.
In a situation like climate, where the output of the previous iteration feeds through into the input of the next iteration, the errors have to propagate – because you have no way of knowing in advance what those unpredictable random walk errors will be.
“The part where critics are going wrong is they don’t get their head around the fact the errors are a “random walk”.”
There is a simple counter to that, put by James Annan and the front slide of Mosh’s video (and by me). A random walk has a time scale. You take prescribed steps, but at a time rate. What is that here?
Pat Frank says once a year, but as JA says, there is no basis for that. It could be anything. And depending on what you choose, you can get any answer you like.
NS,
You have on many occasions made the unsupported claim that the Law of Large Numbers cancels errors. While there is some truth to it, the reality is that to cancel periodicities you have to average over one year to reduce the effect of seasons. Yes, one could use any time increment for climate projections, but it does make sense to use annual steps because it is common practice to state temperature anomalies as annual anomalies, and to compare the average of one year with another, and to predict what future temperatures will be in a given year.
The uncertainty is propagated at each step in a series of calculations. It seems to me that we have a situation that is analogous to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. That is, the finer the time resolution of the model, the less certain one is about the results. Using coarser time steps delays the projection from blowing up, and allows projections to be used farther into the future, at the cost of not being able to say anything at a resolution of less than a year. However, the one-year step illustrates the nature of the propagation of error.
“You have on many occasions made the unsupported claim that the Law of Large Numbers cancels errors.”
It’s not an unsupported claim. It is what the law of large numbers says. As sample size grows, sample mean approaches population mean. Or do you have a different version?
When error is systematic, the distribution of the parent population is not known to be normal.
When normality provision of the LLN is violated, reduction of uncertainty does not follow.
Nick would you like to see a physical example of your argument. So lets have a quantum step of X, lets put the next quantum step size at Y. I have a photon level greater than X and less that Y. Fairly easy setup.
Do you know what will happen .. it’s called Bells Inequality?
Here is the physics experiment we do with polarized light and its a couple minutes to explain
Your QM radiative process works the same way your photons have to match an exact energy level.
What it shows you is the mathematics is not consistent in a classical sense and taking statistics on a non consistent mathematics just creates rubbish. You can use your statistics on the QM result but you have to be careful just throwing statistics at an answer.
“When normality provision of the LLN is violated”
There is no normality provision of the LLN.
“There is no normality provision of the LLN.”
There is. Even wikipedia knows that
“Even wikipedia knows that”
Then quote it, please.
“Pat Frank says once a year, but as JA says, there is no basis for that. It could be anything. And depending on what you choose, you can get any answer you like.”
Seems to me the unknown error becomes a problem in the next iteration of the model. What is the time step of the model iterations? That is the one and only answer. If you are looking at all of the models, one could make the point effectively by taking the average time step of all of them. Yet, the argument is still effective if you choose a period of time that is greater than the average time step of the models. If you do so, and still get a result that falsifies the model, then it would certainly hold true with smaller time steps (more iterations per unit time) as well. If the time step in most climate models is less than or equal to one year, then Dr. Franks arguments are valid for the point he is trying to make, even if one year is ‘arbitrary’.
I have to admit, I do like most of your sentence, Nick, just not the subject. What if the subject was something more important than the time step of an error propagation? Then it could read something like: ‘The models all have a high climate sensitivity to changing CO2, but there is no basis for that. It could be anything. And, depending on what you choose, you can get any answer you like.’
Now there is some truth for you!
“What is the time step of the model iterations?”
About 30 minutes. And if you add the error at that rate, you’ll get error bars about a hundred times Pat’s already ridiculous levels.
But the reality is, this error does not compound in this way at all, as umpteen referees and editors have said. It’s just an ongoing uncertainty. That’s why you get only artificial and arbitrary results when you try to come up with a time scale.
When the climate idiots and scaremongers reject you, that usually means you were right !
If a global warming nut ever read my climate change blog and agreed with anything I wrote,
it would ruin my day!
“Modern Climate Science” is wild guesses, scaremongering,
and character attacks paid for almost entirely by goobermints,
who can seize more power,
if people think a real climate catastrophe is in progress.
Most people on the planet are simpletons, easily fooled by religious and political leaders.
We currently live in the best climate ever for humans and animals — the only improvement would be adding more CO2 to the air to make our green plants happy — 1,000 ppm would be a good target.
You’d expect the liberals to lead the climate scaremongering — only dumb people who prefer socialism over free markets are capable of such a delusion!
The ‘coming runaway climate change catastrophe’ is the biggest fairy tale in human history, and is based entirely on wild guess computer game predictions … that have already been wrong for 30 years — because they assume CO2 controls the climate, when in fact, it is a minor variable … and may even have no measurable effect!
This is what the “warmunists” actually claim,
believe it or not … and it is very hard to believe:
1940:
Natural climate change stops after 4.5 billion years of natural global warming and cooling (mainly cooling, and declining atmospheric CO2 levels) !
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
1940:
Man made ‘aerosols’ suddenly dominate the climate.
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
We had global cooling from 1940 to 1975:
1975:
Man made aerosols suddenly ‘disappear’.
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
1975:
Man made CO2 suddenly dominates the climate.
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
We had global warming from 1975 to 2000:
(mainly in the 1990s):
2000:
Man made CO2 goes on a temporary ‘vacation’.
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation)
We had a flat average temperature trend from 2000 to 2015:
2015 / 2016:
A warming spike — the cause is a natural, temporary “El Nino” (a cyclical Pacific Ocean heat release).
Warmunists bellow about the heat, but don’t mention the cause is natural, the heat is local, and it is temporary,
We had a global warming spike in 2015 and 2016 caused by local El Nino warming in the Pacific Ocean.
The 2015/2016 El Nino warming peak global average temperature was only +0.1 degrees C, warmer than the peak of the equally strong 1998 El Nino warming peak, 17 years earlier:
2017 to 20xx:
Global warming is expected to return,
with manmade CO2 expected
to be dominating the climate again.
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
20xx (decades in the future):
Runaway global warming becomes unstoppable.
– Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
2xxx (hundreds of years in the future):
The end of all life on Earth !
-Explanation: “Because we say so” (no explanation).
Most of the above post was from my free, no ads,
climate blog for non-scientists, written as a public service:
http://www.elOnionBloggle.Blogspot.com
pat gets the net error wrong
https://youtu.be/rmTuPumcYkI?t=18m2s
Steve Mosher has merely and uncritically reiterated Dr. Brown’s incorrect arguments.
I have posted m original initial reply to them downthread here.
For my full debate with Dr. Brown, see his personal website here.
Steve Mosher will not have understood any of it, possibly accounting for his excited declamations here.
However, those of you who understand algebra will be bemused seeing Dr. Brown’s attempt to save his argument by claiming that, when taking an average, the dimensions of a denominator are also in the numerator.
Pat cherry picks only ONE element of energy balance
https://youtu.be/rmTuPumcYkI?t=20m56s
More screwing up the errors by Pat
You folks get why Pat gets rejected? its cause he is wrong.
https://youtu.be/rmTuPumcYkI?t=24m3s
…is this like a movie in 6 parts?
Steve Mosher has linked only the youtube version of Patrick Brown’s video.
At the site of the original posting of that video, Patrick Brown and I had a long conversation.
I invite everyone to visit there and read through.
Patrick Brown’s analysis did not survive critical analysis; something for which Steve Mosher has never demonstrated an aptitude.
James Annan: ‘I am confident that the author has already had this pointed out to them…’
Anyone who cannot distinguish between one and more-than-one cannot be a mathematician.
Anyone who can make the distinction but chooses not to (on, I presume, idealogical grounds)
should not be reviewing scientific papers.
“is such a shambles.” No “in.”
“Shamble,” in medieval times a market bench, particularly for meat. A collection of shambles (meat benches) was a slaughterhouse. Shakespeare: “Far be it from Richard to make a shambles of parliament.”
Pat
Put your findings in front of mathematicians for review, not climate scientists running models.
It is not a science problem, but one of compounding mathematical calculation.
Just a though
“Put your findings in front of mathematicians for review”
From the article
“How does it happen that a PhD in mathematics does not understand rms (root-mean-square) and cannot distinguish a “±” from a “+”?”
His problem seems to be with people who understand mathematics.
Thanks Nick
His problem is with people that are supposed to understand mathematics, but demonstrate they don’t. Big difference.
“His problem is with people that are supposed to understand mathematics, but demonstrate they don’t.”
So do you think failure to prefix a “±” shows lack of understanding? Do you always write RMS with a “±”?
Held off commenting because wanted to see how thread developed, plus go back and reread Pat Frank’s previous guest post and his draft paper at issue. Conclusion: two wrongs do not make a right.
Annan and Hargreaves do in fact have multiple conflicts. Negative pal review at work. Wrong.
But, the paper is also full of errors needing substantial rework, as pointed out by several upthread. Wrong for Pat Frank to reject Ronan’s unconflicted feedback and think what he has done is fine when it isn’t. Mosher provides sufficient technical substance upthread for those that did not/cannot spot the paper’s problems themselves.
FG, no. The only flaw in Mosher’s posted youtube explanation is point five, Hansen 1988,which uses an El Nino 2015 cherrypick to ‘justify’ a palpably wrong 1988 forecast. The first four points in the video are legitimate critiques.
I have guest posted here several times various ‘sound bites’ on unassailable climate model objections: unavoidable tuning drags in attribution assumptions, missing tropical troposphere hot spot, model sensitivity twice observed, and so on. Error propagation is esoteric, so of literally no use in the political debate whether right or wrong. It is a political, no longer scientific, debate. Adopt corresponding weapons. This complaint aint one.
Steve Mosher has provided zero technical substance upthread, ristvan.
Patrick Brown’s analysis is wrong, as I demonstrated in our debate at his site.
Ronan’s feedback “thought experiment” required air temperature as the intensive variable in the uncertainty estimate. It isn’t. His idea shows a complete misunderstanding of what I did. Air temperature plays no part in the error propagation. Ronan’s thought experiment is nonsense.
In fact, the last sentence in Ronan’s contribution there, “Instead, the global warming projected by the CMIP5 models is mostly a consequence of rising GHG concentrations.” inadvertently validated my error analysis.
The propagation in fact involves fractional change in GHG forcing; which exactly follows from “rising GHG concentrations.“
Rud, I’m impressed you didn’t catch Dr. Brown confusing a rmse statistic with a forcing.
FYI, I have posted my initial reply to Dr. Brown here.
Mosher’s posts are uncritical reiterations of refuted arguments.
My paper is not “full of errors” by any criterion stemming from Dr. Brown’s video criticism.
Who was that academic at Mason University(?) who had the dubious climate hype NGO that was funneling money to his wife and/or kid?
This publication sounds more like an infomercial trade rag dressed up as a sciencey publication.
Move on and find a real publication to peer review it.
A math or stats or QC/QA ISO oriented publication.
Shukla and his wife and daughter. George Mason University in Virginia.
There is no way thst errors, uncorrected honestly, don’t propagate and grow in any system.
True. The question is how. And PF has the how just wrong, in my opinion.
Your opinion is thus far insubstantiated, ristvan.
I would have to spend time studying this to render a verdict, time I do not have. So, my prima facie impression could be off but, the nub of the issue seems to be poor definition on both sides.
The review says:
Yet, the paper clearly defines the error in units of W/m^2/year, implying a yearly evaluation. This error also appears to be propagated (no pun intended) in Mosher’s vid.
However, it appears both sides are basically showing a square-root dependence of this error, so they are both suggesting that we have broadband (essentially white) noise being integrated into a random walk, in which uncertainty builds as the square root of time. The units for the variable that quantifies such a process should be W/m^2/sqrt(time). E.g., if we have a process
dT/dt = k*W
with W in W/m^2 and k in K/(W/m^2), and W is afflicted with essentially white noise with spectral density sigma^2 in (W/m^2)^2/year, then T will experience a random walk with uncertainty k*sigma*sqrt(t) with t in years.
Since sigma is in W/m^2/sqrt(year), the units all work out to temperature in K.
So, it appears to me the reviewer is wrong – zero mean, wideband noise in an essentially cumulative system does propagate to a random walk. It appears to be Dr. Frank has been careless with units. And, the real question is whether the square root of spectral density of the disturbance is really as large as +/- 4 W/m^2/sqrt(year) or not.
“Yet, the paper clearly defines the error in units of W/m^2/year, implying a yearly evaluation.”
PF’s paper defines it so. But the actual number comes from Lauer and Hamilton, who give it as 4 W/m2. PF has added the /year, because he says that a quantity averaged over 20 years should acquire a /year unit. That seems to be where the yearly frequency comes from, but is quite arbitrary. If you exprssedthe 20 years as 240 months, you’d have a monthly frequency.
Not if you used the correct units.
A parameter of 4 W/m^2/sqrt(year) gives you 4*sqrt(20) = 17.8 W/m^2 in 20 years.
A parameter of 4/sqrt(12) = 1.15 W/m^2/sqrt(months) gives you 1.15*sqrt(240) = 17.8 W/m^2 in 240 months which is 20 years.
So, the first question seems to be, is there a forcing variation of this magnitude from year to year? The next is, over what timeline can it be considered to induce a random walk before limiting factors assert themselves?
Bart,
“A parameter of 4 W/m^2/sqrt(year)”
Well, that is a new one. It’s a variant of the notion that if you average something (W/m2) over a 20 years, you somehow get different units. But there is still the problem, why sqrt(year)? Why not sqrt(month) or sqrt(sec)?
Lauer and Hamilton, who actually derived the number, were having none of this. Their units were W/m2.
The sqrt() aspect occurred to me when I was contemplating Pat Frank’s proposition that
“The average height of people in a room is meters/person, not meters.”
The logic of that says the standard deviation is in meters/sqrt(person).
Continuous time white noise does not actually exist in nature, as it requires infinite energy. However, many processes can be considered “white” if they are uniform over a wide band of frequencies of interest.
Continuous zero mean white noise is quantified in units of whatever quantity it represents per square root of frequency (inverse time). This is because the autocorrelation of a white noise process w(t) is
E{w(t2)*w(t1)} = sigma^2 * delta(t2-t1)
where sigma is the quantifying parameter, and delta(t2-t1) is the Dirac delta function. The Dirac delta function is a function that integrates to unity, so it has units of inverse time.Thus, e.g., when you multiply the quantity units squared per sec^-1 times a Dirac function in units of sec^-1, you get the quantity units squared.
A random walk is a sampled Weiner process, which can be thought of as the integral of white noise. It has uncertainty increasing as the square root of time. So, when you multiply the units of sigma times those of the square root of time, you get the units of the quantity.
We measure the spectral density of a white noise process using the PSD. If we perform a PSD on the variability in the rate of change of forcing, and if it is white noise, it will produce a flat line at a level of some (W/m^2/year)^2/frequency_units. If frequency_units is scaled to years^-1, then that gives (W/m^2)^2/year. The square root of that is the sigma value, in W/m^2/sqrt(years).
Integrating the rate data would then produce a random walk with parameter in units of W/m^2/sqrt(year), and the uncertainty would increase with the square root of time.
The lack of fractional time units is telling me the people involved have neglected the most basic of validation methods one learns in undergraduate studies – the units have always got to match up. Whatever mathematical functions are applied, the units must map appropriately.
I can’t get too involved in this right now. But, my basic proposition is that if you have a random walk that has uncertainty increasing as
sigma*sqrt(t)
then, sigma must be in units of the quantity per square root of time.
What I suspect may be a problem is that the variation in rate of change is probably not white. If it has zero energy at low frequency (as it would if it is the rate of change of a white noise process), then it will not integrate into a random walk.
Nick is still bemused by the fact that in a time average, every lesser time interval within the averaged duration has the identical magnitude.
Every second is ±4 W/m^2 in the 20 year average, Nick. For you the time unit is then, equally, ±4 W/m^2/sec., isn’t it. What a mystery!
This numerical conundrum was explained to you, and again here, and micro6500 tried to explain it to you more than just that once.
And you’ve never gotten it.
Nick, “who give it as 4 W/m2” Wrong. Lauer and Hamilton give it as the rmse of the 20-year multimodel annual mean. Annual root-mean-square-error = ±4 W/m^2/year, not your positive sign value.
It appears you never lose an opportunity to misunderstand something in a convenient way, Nick.
Do you still insist that thermometers have infinite resolution, too?
” Lauer and Hamilton give it as the rmse of the 20-year multimodel annual mean. Annual root-mean-square-error = ±4 W/m^2/year, not your positive sign value.”

Here is where they give it. No ±, no /year.
RMSE, ‘a measure the spread of the residuals.’
RMSE, ‘a measure of the spread of the y values around the average.’
RMSE, ‘the square root of the mean squared error … is the statistic that determines the width of the confidence intervals for predictions … so a 95% confidence interval for a forecast is approximately equal to the point forecast “plus or minus 2 standard errors”–i.e., plus or minus 2 times the standard error of the regression.’
Guess what ‘spread of values’ means.
Guess what ‘width of the confidence interval’ about a value means.
You’re wrong, Nick, and obviously wrong.
L&H’s “rmse = 4 W/m^2” denotes a confidence width: ±4 W/m^2.
“‘width of the confidence interval’”
So how could a width be negative? But as for
“L&H’s “rmse = 4 W/m^2” denotes a confidence width: ±4 W/m^2.”
It denotes a rmse. And it is 4 W/m2, just like they said.
Nick, “So how could a width be negative?”
Can an error be negative, Nick?
Can you guess the sign designation of the rms of positive and negative physical errors?
That’s called rmse. Its sign designation is ±.
Always.
In L&H, the dimensional analysis for cloud cover of a given simulation is: (cloud-cover)/grid-point × 1/year × 1/model × grid-points/globe = (cloud-cover) year^-1 model^-1 globe^-1.
The individual observational dimension is cloud-cover/grid-point/year.
The annual mean error for any given model is the difference between simulation and observation, which is Δ(cloud cover/grid-point/year).
The global rmse calculated from the mean annual errors of all the models is then of dimension sqrt{[Δ(cloud cover/year)]^2} = ±(cloud-cover)/year.
Error in ±cloud-cover/year is converted into error in long wave cloud forcing, in units of ±W/m^2/year. There’s no sqrt(year) dimension in the error metric.
L&H is your source, and they give the numbers in exactly the same format as James Annan used. You wrote of that
“We can note his very unprofessional first sentence and bypass it in compassionate silence.
He wrote, “… ~4W/m^2 error in cloud forcing…” except it is ±4 W/m^2 not Dr. Annan’s positive sign +4 W/m^2. Apparently for Dr. Annan, ± = +.”
L&H is your source for the numbers. You obviously didn’t bypass that in compassionate silence.
James Annan is just making the same mistake you are Nick, ignoring the meaning of root-mean-square calibration error. It’s no big mystery.
Anyone who understands calibration experiments knows what the rmse means.
You don’t understand them. Neither does James Annan. And why should you? You have no training.
That doesn’t stop you carrying on in ignorance, though.
“You don’t understand them. Neither does James Annan.”
Continuing to avoid two things
1. How does it happen that your source for the number, L&H, express it as a simple positive number, just as JA and I do.
2. My challenge – just point to some reputable source somewhere that expresses the number for RMS as other than a positive number.
Nick, “Continuing to avoid two things
1. How does it happen that your source for the number, L&H, express it as a simple positive number, just as JA and I do.”
Search on my posts: I have never avoided either of those things.
You continue to take that number out of the context L&H provided: “rmse = 4 W m^2“.
You continue to ignore the invariant meaning of rmse, which is plus/minus.
“2. My challenge – just point to some reputable source somewhere that expresses the number for RMS as other than a positive number.”
Provided for you here, third link.
Here’s another, Wiki itself: “In experimental sciences, the [plus/minus] sign commonly indicates the confidence interval or error in a measurement, often the standard deviation or standard error. The sign may also represent an inclusive range of values that a reading might have.”
Note the reference to the standard deviation.
Here’s Wiki’s URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation
SD is the rmse conditioned with loss of one degree of freedom and is plus/minus. Search the page for “±” and you’ll find it in use.
The case is now closed, and in your disfavor.
Pat,
“Provided for you here, third link.”
No. As I predicted, you provide a definition of confidence interval in terms of the standard error. They say
“so a 95% confidence interval for a forecast is approximately equal to the point forecast “plus or minus 2 standard errors”–i.e., plus or minus 2 times the standard error of the regression.”
Clearly there the standard error is positive. How does ±±4 make sense?
Your first wiki link again is defining use of ± in defining a confidence interval, not the sd. On the second wiki page, there are indeed a number of standard deviations quoted. Each one is a simple, positive number, eg
“Their standard deviations are 7, 5, and 1, respectively. “
“For example, the average height for adult men in the United States is about 70 inches (177.8 cm), with a standard deviation of around 3 inches (7.62 cm).”
My challenge was to find someone actually specifying an RMS with a ± in front. Lack of that is what you said was Annan’s failure that demonstrated his incapacity.
Nick, rather, yes.
My bold throughout below.
The Wiki RMS page says, “The root-mean-square deviation (RMSD) or root-mean-square error (RMSE) is a frequently used measure of the differences between values (sample and population values) predicted by a model or an estimator and the values actually observed. The RMSD represents the sample standard deviation of the differences between predicted values and observed values.”
The standard deviation page says, “If a data distribution is approximately normal then about 68 percent of the data values are within one standard deviation of the mean (mathematically, μ ± σ, where μ is the arithmetic mean), about 95 percent are within two standard deviations (μ ± 2σ), and about 99.7 percent lie within three standard deviations (μ ± 3σ).”
Anyone can make the obvious logical link: rmse = standard deviation = ±.
Is it anyone but you, Nick?
Here’s another refutation for you, Nick, this time with some irony.
T. Chai and R. R. Draxler (2014) Root mean square error (RMSE) or mean absolute error (MAE)? – Arguments against avoiding RMSE in the literature Geosci. Model Dev. 7, 1247-1250.
Note the journal.
Chai and Draxler mention that, “ One distinct advantage of RMSEs over MAEs is that RMSEs avoid the use of absolute value, which is highly undesirable in many mathematical calculations.”
Guess what “avoid the use of absolute value” means.
Chai and Draxler’s Table 1 lists some test RMSEs and MAEs, and all of them are presented as absolute values.
Does that mean Chai and Dexler contradicted themselves?
Or does it mean that it is so obvious that rmse is ± (not an absolute value) that they don’t feel a need to display the ±?
MAE and RMSE are defined in their eqns. 1 and 2.
1) MAE = 1/n(sum over |e|), where |e| is absolute value of error.
2) RMSE = sqrt[1/n(sum over e^2)]
RMSE is not given as a Nick Stokesian absolute value, i.e., |sqrt[1/n(sum over e^2)]|.
Guess why the distinction is important. Because “sqrt” always produces “±.,” and that’s what Chai and Draxler meant to convey.
Here’s a paper, Nick, where the obvious is stated explicitly.
P. Ineichen, et al. (1987) “The Importance of Correct Albedo Determination for Adequately Modeling Energy Received by Tilted Surfaces” Solar Energy 39(4) 301-305.
p. 302, “Each point [in figures 1(a) to 1(f)] is surrounded by plus/minus one relative root mean square deviation (RRMS).”
In their Table 2, the RRMSs are given as positive values.
Let’s see, does that mean RRMS is sometimes ± and sometimes +?
Or does it mean that people write the positive value as a convention, knowing their audience understands that rms means ±?
Ineichen, et al., distinguish RMMS from relative mean bias error, by the way, which actually does have a plus or minus sign attached to each of the values.
No ground left for you, Nick.
There never was.
Nice try diverting the challenge away from meaning and into convention, though.
Pat,
“Guess what “avoid the use of absolute value” means.”
It’s very clear. Here is more context:
“One distinct advantage of RMSEs over MAEs is that RMSEs avoid the use of absolute value, which is highly undesirable in many mathematical calculations. For instance, it might be difficult to calculate the gradient or sensitivity of the MAEs with respect to certain model parameters.”
They avoid the abs value function because it is not differentiable at zero, while RMS is differentiable everyhere.
But again, every RMSE that is quoted is a simple positive number. And then there is this:
“When both metrics are calculated, the RMSE is by definition never smaller than the MAE. “
Now the MAE is just the mean of absolute values, and cannot be negative. And, they say, the RMSE is not less. Actually, the fact that they talk about ordering at all clearly means RMSE is not ±.
So remember, yet again, you excoriated Annan because he showed a RMSE without ±. yet every link you have shown does exactly the same.
And Ineichen – same story. Look at table 2. A page full of RRMS. And each one expressed as a simple positive number. Just like JA.
P 302 – again just one of these cases where they express the CI in terms of ±RRMS. That defines the range, but RRMS is positive. Else again you would have ±±.
So you are reduced to saying – well, they give a positive number, but we know they plan to use it as ± in a CI. Well, even if so, the same could be said of Annan. They are doing exactly the same as he did.
Nick, I’ve further investigated your preposterous claims about rmse.
Not to establish you’re wrong throughout, already known, but just to ameliorate the question you will have generated in the minds of those less familiar with physical science.
So, then, let’s proceed.
In Bevington, P. R., and D. K. Robinson (2003), Data Reduction and Error Analysis for the Physical Sciences, 3rd ed., McGraw-Hill, Boston, pp 10-11: The standard deviation (SD) is a measure of the dispersion of the observations about the mean.
“The standard deviation is the root mean square of he deviations…”
An example on page 22 explicitly gives SD as ±.
Thus: RMSE = standard deviation = ±σ.
Next: Chapter 3 of my old copy of Skoog and West, Fundamentals of Analytical Chemistry, discusses statistical treatment of data. In text examples of RMSE/SD unambiguously require the ±.
Interestingly the tables of rmses provide only the positive values, while their in-text illustrative use includes the ±.
It’s clear that the tabulation of positive values for rmse is merely a convention, where the ± is present but implied.
The JCGM (100:2008), Evaluation of measurement data, define SD as the dispersion of measurements about a mean and recommend reporting as the positive root.
But within the JCGM, the illustrative usage SD is always ±σ.
Next: In H. W. Coleman and W. G. Steele (1995) Engineering Application of Experimental Uncertainty Analysis AIAA J. 33(10) 1888-1896, every use of SD is ±σ.
Coleman and Steele also specify propagation of error as the root-sum-square.
Next, the 2007 Guide to the Expression of Uncertainties for the Evaluation of Critical Experiments published by the International Criticality Safety Benchmark Evaluation Project (ICSBEP)
p. 6 says, Decision theory tells us that if the distribution is to be summarized by just two numbers, it is best to give its mean x and its variance var x = [(x-x_avg)^2] and to state the experimental result as x_avg ± Δx, where Δx ≡ sqrt(var x) is the standard deviation (root-mean-square error).
That’s definitive, isn’t it.
L. Lyons, 1991 A Practical Guide to Data Analysis for Physical Science Students Cambridge U. along with the usual equations on page 12, says, Thus σ is the RMS (root mean square) deviation form the mean and is also known as the ‘standard deviation’ of the mean.
And after a long discussion out to page 17, gives an example of method and usage reporting x = μ±σ.
Those examples completely settle the question that never had any real need for settling.
The only question remaining, Nick, is whether you as an astute mathematics guy really didn’t know that rmse is always ±σ, or was the tabular convention an occasion for some consciously opportunistic dissemblance.
Chai and Draxler prefer RMSE to MAE when model errors are normal. They don’t ground their preference at all in differentiability.
They also point out in their footnote 1 that the standard error (SE) is equivalent to the RMSE under unbiased error.
Standard error takes the ±. So does standard deviation. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus-minus_sign
Or do you now claim that standard error along with standard deviation are also positive-sign only?
Nick “And Ineichen – same story. Look at table 2. A page full of RRMS. And each one expressed as a simple positive number. Just like JA.”
The same RRMS they describe as plus/minus and plot as plus/minus.
Here’s how Ineichen describe the RRMS in Table 2: “relative root mean square deviation (RRMS) describing the short-term fluctuation around the average bias” (my bold).
Do fluctuations about an average bias have only positive excursions? Does that sound statistically valid to you? It’s very clear that the Table 2 RRMS values include the implied ±.
The positive values in Table 2 merely follow tabular convention.
“So you are reduced to saying – well, they give a positive number, but we know they plan to use it as ± in a CI.”
I’m left saying that the RRMS is ± throughout, obviously so in Ineichen.
You are left with strained malaprops of obvious statistical meaning.
Your “challenge” Nick “was to find someone actually specifying an RMS with a ± in front.”
I did so with Ineichen, and in response you shifted your ground.
“Well, even if so, the same could be said of Annan. They are doing exactly the same as he did.”
Ineichen are obviously not doing so. Ineichen are presenting RMSE as ± throughout.
Annan’s extended comment, “…this is what underpins the use of anomalies for estimating change,” clearly requires that he saw the rmse ±4 W/m^2/year calibration uncertainty statistic as a constant positive sign offset error in forcing.
He’s wrong on sign; wrong on error; wrong on forcing.
And you’re wrong, too, Nick.
Have other people published papers about the propagation of errors in climate computer models? If not, that answers the question.
BTW, this sort of thing goes on all the time in every area. I gave up trying to publish anything in pathology because it wasn’t worth publishing something everybody knows, and if you try to publish something that is original or goes against the consensus, it gets rejected.
Yeah, it is corrupt. That is why you really need a marketplace of ideas.
Yes they have. Google is your friend. Gosh, even I have.
No, they have not. They have calculated run standard deviation about an ensemble mean. That’s not the same thing at all. AT ALL.
And you haven’t propagated errors through climate model simulations, either, Rud.
It boggles the mind what still goes on in this climate space on a daily basis despite real scientists finally coming out of the woodwork to dispute the consensus even more fervently (and less afraid of being fired) since Trump was elected. The alarmist are ever-more emboldened today. They have been able to latch on and ride the Trump Derangement Syndrome to justify their continued false narrative, and its’ corresponding gravy-train. It’s way too easy for them to continue the dishonesty given the money and marketing that have created such a vast following at this point.
I’m not sure whose side I’m going to be supporting, but I find a large problem in terms of understanding what is being dealt with here and it begins with W/M2 Watts per meter squared. But most everyone knows what a kilowatt hour is. It’s the thing you pay the power company for. A tangible entity. Now divide that by a time unit, say a year. So we have a kilowatt hr/y which is a constant So the watt in watt/Meter squared carrys a value which is not independent of the time over which we are mearsuring. If we want to work with watts, we will have a tangable entity which will accumulate over the time scale we’re working with. I think this is what Pat is alluding to, as the energy change from not being able to have a good measure of cloud forcing will produce some sort of system change which accumulates over time.
cdquaries wrote:
“The kind of stuff done by climate scientists would have gotten an “F” in my chemistry lab classes. Yeah, the lab classes where previously described experiments get replicated. So when I do a bomb calorimetry setup and get a different number from the book, if I’ve done my error analysis correctly, I can then show why my result differed”
As someone who Is not a mathematician, but rather an observer of natural systems (geologist), this is the most sensible post in an intriguing topic. Surely there are enough brains here to formulate an experiment that would validate or debunk Pat’s theory. Now that would be fun. The possibilities are endless and require an appreciation of the influence of variables. This is science, not just number crunching!
Pat Frank
I recommend a practical experiment that compares radiation input values, and model output values.
The solar physics community maintains that the sun is NOT the source of enough of a change in Top of Atmosphere Radiation levels (TOA) since satellite measurements began to have affected the earth’s global average temperature. Let us assume that is true.
Thus, according to these solar physicists, the actual TOA radiation has not changed since the mid-1980’s.
http://spot.colorado.edu/~koppg/TSI/TSI.png
However, the MEASURED TOA radiation levels HAVE CHANGED substantially during that period – decreasing from the 1985 levels of 1372 watts/m^2 to today’s 1362 watts/m^2. This is because, the solar scientists claim, the original instruments were calibrated incorrectly, and so “more recent” TOA radiation levels are now recording 10 watts/m^2 LESS than the original TOA radiation levels. The plot shows Total Solar Irradiation levels, TOA values are proportional to TSI, but vary according to each day’s distance from the sun around the earth’s orbit. (The alternative assumption – that actual solar energy levels have decreased by 10 watts/m^2 since 1985 – is rejected.)
According to the climate alarmist community, the computer climate mode runs completed this year, produce the same results (with the same uncertainity!) as the early model runs completed between 1980-1990. According to the same climate alarmist community, the only valid change between the first model runs in 1985-1990 and today are the “start level” assigned to CO2, and – we assume – the first input temperature conditions: today may be as much as 0.30 degrees warmer (on average) than in the 1970’s.
Now, every climate model can only be “theoretical”, NO climate model can measure or reflect the real world. Thus, each year’s run of every climate model at every computer laboratory across the world MUST USE some assumed TOA radiation value assigned for the day it is programmed, and for the minute its program starts running the near-infinite finite element feedback loops inside each computer model. If ANY climate model is running on last year’s TOA value, the last decade’s TOA value, or a TOA value now 30 years out of date, it MUST BE discarded, right? If ANY climate model is run with an “invalid”, totally wrong TOA radiation value, the predicted results of that model running with invalid data are equally invalid, right?
NO self-claimed “climate scientist” can use a 100 year future prediction foretelling doom and (literally) the end of life on this planet” based on a forecasted 3 watt/m^2 increase in the earth’s average heat balance, if the “year 0” of that 100 year prediction begins 10 watts/m^2 too large, or do they?
The climate forecast model results from the early 1980-1990-2000 years are the same as 2015-2016-2017, are they not? A 10 watt/m^2 DECREASE in TOA solar radiation for a climate model run in 2017 at 1362 watts/m^2 is the same end temperature as a model run in 1995 using 1372 watts/m^2?
How can they pretend a 3 watt/m^2 “forcing” due to an increase in CO2 levels makes a life-ending change, when a 10 watts/m^2 decrease in input energy levels makes no difference at all in their predicted temperatures (er, climates) 83 years from now?
(Or are they so careless with input parameters that they haven’t noticed every model run since 1996 has been dead wrong?)
That’s because “climate scientist” models basically assume equilibrium in the first place, before any anthropo “forcing”. So if solar scientists tell them that TSI is 1372, or 1400, or 1320, or whatever, they assume this just cancel out with relevant out radiation, no matter what. et voilà.
They effectively think like, “Nature is at equilibrium for whatever natural value TSI etc. are. Now lets look at the effect of human forcing”
It’s like no one ever taught them the dangers of inference from incomplete knowledge.
I have always thought that no matter how lame a manuscript, it can get published somewhere. Frank’s paper disproves this hypothesis.
Earlier on WUWT there was chat between Nick Stokes and self about how much you can interpolate between data points – see
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/08/the-uscrn-revisited/#comment-2659942
I asked Nick – “Do you ever reach a stage when you say, I shall not publicise this matter because the data are not good enough to support it?”
Part of his reply was “No. The data are what they are. I am not responsible for them; I just try to show them as clearly as possible.”
Nick’s response floored me. We are dealing with science, not with a popularity chat show. If I know that data are false, I do not publish them. Nick is more liberal.
This interchange again reminded me of how different sectors of the scientific community can be. There seems to be a group that think about responsibility more than “I am not responsible”. I’m part of that group. One of its properties is that accountability enters the equation. Accountability has often been measured, but I prefer the old way, by dollars, because that’s part of the reason why dollars were invented or used.
So I am trying to see of a geological anomaly I have found is likely to be a success. I estimate grade and shape and a host of other factors, some of them by interpolation between data points. Arriving at a summary, I sat that there is a high probability that the geological thing can now be regarded as a resource rather than as a reserve and I give estimates of grade and tonnes and economics and other relevant factors, like whether I am an independent consultant or whether I have a possibility of financial gain through covert acts.
Meanwhile Nick might be classed in another group. Its workers as research scientists in government organisations might feel a general compulsion to do their work well, but they find it hard to express their work value in hard dollars because it is not a big part of their function. Their accountability is smaller – if their results are right or wrong, life goes on, the government still pays the wages.
But, if I knowingly make a false assertion about my ore deposit, I can go to jail for fraud.
To me, it is wrong to publicise data that I know to be wrong. Nick’s ‘group’ seem to be less troubled. With data, it is what it is, wash my hands of accountability.
I find this difference to be astounding. It occurs again on this thread, where Nick notes at 9.52 a.m. “In science, as in life, we never have perfect knowledge. We have imperfect knowledge of the initial state, and imperfect knowledge of the climatology.” So, in essence, he is saying that he allows knowingly faulty information to go forwards. There might be a need for such times, but they need to be qualified by careful, correct statements of the errors involved. This is part of Pat’s points.
I am finally drawn to the conclusion that there are in this climate science field, groups of participants whose approach to scientific life ranges from rigid, with punishment for mistakes, to laissez faire, close enough for government work and to hell with the consequences.
That difference cannot be resolved with all the good will and thoughts of contributors to WUWT.
Its cure is more surgical, like a frontal lobotomy, though I’d prefer a bottle in front o’ me.
Geoff
I think the more scary part is the intent of the review process. I made the point to Nick above that none of the truely great papers in physics would stand up to a semantic attack them, you would end up rejecting them. The alarming part to me is that the discussion is not about intent of a paper it’s about semantics.
The danger here is Nick and his friends would reject a paper if you wrote -$10 or -240V RMS it would be rejected. They are apply a literal interpretation that the quantities can only be positive. The fact the terms have unambiguous meaning and are shorthand used by huge sections of the real world is not important, go to the physical definition and it says they can only be positive quantities.
So a paper may be absolutely unambiguous about what it says and be very important but out it goes because it doesn’t meet the definitions as used by the gatekeepers.
“Nick and his friends would reject a paper if you wrote -$10 or -240V RMS it would be rejected”
No, they would ask for a change, as Ronan Connolly did. That is routine. It is Pat Frank’s responses to such requests that gum up the works.
But again, it is Pat with the semantics here. He is the one that blasted James Annan for writing -4 W/m2.
Pointing out his (and your) basic sign error is not semantics, Nick.
Yeah I have problems with where this goes. If classical physics had employed these tactics they could have stopped QM papers by simply stating Energy is an absolute positive thing and the the universe is 3 Dimensions. You have to be able to argue new meaning in quantities, nothing is fixed in stone as we did in QM and needed to add ket notations.
It will be really interesting with the expanding branch of Quantum Thermodynamics you aren’t going to be able use it in climate science because it won’t conform to your standards 🙂
Who said submitting your paper over and over again, expecting different results was???
Here is Nick in history.
Einstein: Dear Nick I attach my theory of General relativity.
Nick: Sorry Mr Einstein we reject you paper it implies a 4th dimension and the universe has only 3.
Einstein: Yes Nick that is the point of the paper I am showing there is a hidden 4th dimension.
Nick: Well if you go to the current textbook and look it clearly states the universe is only 3 dimensions you have made a silly mistake .. paper rejected.
Einstein: You don’t seem to be understanding, I am saying the text books are wrong.
Nick: They are textbooks Mr Einstein and they clearly define the universe as 3D … paper rejected.
“If I know that data are false, I do not publish them.”
I don’t know or believe that the data are false. On the contrary. But they are not my data. I generally think they are good. I graph them in various ways, as with the WebGL display of that thread. People need to know what they are.
This actually goes on endlessly at WUWT. People pile on to see how scornful they can be about temperature measures. Yet the posts are full of graphs of temperature data. If you can’t see what the data is, how can you talk about it?
Nick Stokes “I don’t know or believe that the data are false.”
Nick, we were doing interpolation a while back. The mathematical method named Geostatistics was developed in part because of the frequent question like “How far apart can 2 data points be before one loses predictive power for the value of the other?” and the related question like “Is my sampling adequately dense, or do I need to resample and infill?”
Geostatistics evolved with hope for it as a better way to treat a problem, inferring that there was a prior problem and that it needed fixing. If, as can happen, there are 2 representations of data, there is a probability that one is better than the other. How you define ‘better’ is more semantics, but it usually is associated with proficiency of understanding existing art. Patent examiners for example meet the problem of prior art and some become capable enough to know of two inventions, which one is better than the other.
You are trying to tell me that a researcher cannot know that one representation of data is better than another. I do not buy this. If it were so, we would not have the concept of peer review of journals.
So, we can have one representation that is better than another, one of which for brevity I earlier labelled ‘false’. False in the sense that representing it as ‘best’ knowing it is not, is not scientifically good.
It is also not scientifically good to publicise concepts like GCMs as admissible devices if the errors involved are known to be too large for them to be useful. That is the type of falsity that should be considered for punishment.
You can plead before a court that you did not know that the errors were so large; that you did not know how to estimate them; that you thought you could just treat them as dataq; that you did not think you could be accountable for their failure; that you did not think it wrong to promote them without estimation of the financial consequences.
No, you cannot get off with arguments like that. You should know, before you try to influence others. Otherwise, you debase science and the populace.
Geoff.
+1 Geoff Sherrington
Please find below the publishers details for my book “Hard Cover”: “Climate Change and its Impacts: Ground Realities”
http://www.bspublications.net/downloads/059e46035c9c40_Climate%20Change%20and%20its%20Impacts%20Ground%20Realities.pdf
Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
It is not often that I find myself agreeing with climate modellers, but I do this time.
I think that Pat Frank has misunderstood what the ±4 W/m^2 figure means and hence it effect on climate models, for reasons already stated by others.
I caution other sceptics that supporting faulty criticism of climate models weakens our case against them; as it helps the modellers pretend that all criticism is faulty.
Pat Frank’s decision to accuse one of the reviewers of bias and to claim that bias is the sole reason his paper was rejected also damages the sceptic cause.
I think the ±4 W/m^2 means what Lauer and Hamilton present it as: the 20-year annual mean uncertainty in simulated long-wave cloud forcing.
What do you think it means, BillP, and why?
I didn’t accuse the reviewers of bias. I showed they have a serious conflict of interest.
I’ve also never claimed that bias is the sole reason for rejection. I didn’t direct the word “bias” at them at all, in my post.
My prior posts on the topic of rejection, here and here, I present evidence that the rejections were grounded in incompetence.
With apologies…
Steve Mosher brought up Dr. Patrick Brown’s critique in several posts, starting here.
Rud Istvan has also weighed in positively on Dr. Brown’s critique, especially here and here.
Dr. Brown mistakes the rmse ±4 W/m^2/year calibration uncertainty statistic as a positive sign 4 W/m^2 forcing error. This misconstrues a statistic as an energy. This mistake alone is fatal to pretty much his entire argument.
Steve Mosher knows nothing of science. His attacks on me always display that ignorance. He regularly and uncritically quotes disproven criticisms. So, it’s no surprise that he should post excited declamations about Dr. Brown’s video.
However Rud is pretty well trained, and I’m surprised he didn’t catch Dr. Brown’s obvious misconstrual of a statistic for an energy, and uncertainty for physical error.
As these two have brought Dr. Brown’s video to the fore, I’ve decided to post my opening critique of it here as a reference for those interested in the debate here.
I’ll link this post upthread at Mosher’s and Rud’s comments.
The conversation at Dr. Brown’s site continued after the post below. Dr. Brown’s argument did not prevail. It got pretty desperate with his claim that in a division, the numerator includes the dimension of the denominator. But in any case Dr. Brown never accepted that a rmse statistic is not a forcing.
+++++++++Post Follows+++++++++++
Before proceeding, I’d like to thank Dr. Brown for kindly notifying me of his critique after posting it. His email was very polite and temperate; qualities that were very much appreciated. His video critique is thoughtful, very reasoned, and very clear and calm in presentation. Dr. Brown gave an accurate summary of my method. I also gratefully acknowledge Dr. Brown’s scientific integrity, very apparent in his presentation and especially in his deportment.
I also acknowledge that, in the first several minutes of his presentation, Dr. Brown correctly described the error propagation method I used.
I’ll begin by noting that my presentation shows beyond doubt that GCM global air temperature projections are no more than linear extrapolations of green house gas forcing. Linear propagation of error is therefore directly warranted.
GCMs make large thermal errors. Propagation of these errors through a global air temperature projection will inevitably produce large uncertainty bars.
Even a uncertainty of ±1 W/m² in tropospheric thermal energy flux will propagate out to an uncertainty of ±4.3 C after 100 years, which is about the same size as the ~4 C mean 2000-2100 anomaly from RCP 8.5, and about 4 times the projection uncertainty admitted by the IPCC.
Before proceeding to specific points, I’ll mention that in minute 12:35, Dr. Brown observed that the ±17 C uncertainty envelope in RCP 8.5, derived from long wave cloud forcing (LCF) error is, “a completely unphysical range of uncertainty, so it’s totally not plausible that temperature could decrease by 15 degrees as we’re increasing CO₂. And it’s implausible as well that temperature could increase by 17 decrees as we’re increasing CO₂ under the RCP 8.5 scenario. But as I understand it, this is the point Dr. Frank is trying to make.”
A temperature uncertainty statistic is not a physical temperature. Statistical uncertainties cannot be “unphysical” in the sense Dr. Brown implies. The large uncertainty bars do not indicate possible increases or decreases in air temperature. They indicate a state of knowledge. The uncertainty bars are an ignorance width. I made this very point in my DDP presentation, when the propagated uncertainty envelopes were first introduced.
It is true that the very large uncertainty bars subsume any possible future air temperature excursion. This condition indicates that no future air temperature can falsify a climate model air temperature projection. No knowledge of future air temperature is contained in, or transmitted by, a climate model temperature expectation value.
Dr. Brown continued, “So he’s essentially saying that when you properly account for the uncertainty in the climate model projections, the uncertainty becomes so large so quickly that you can’t actually draw any meaning from the projections that the climate models are making.” On this, we are agreed.
The assessment below of Dr. Brown’s presentation is long. To accommodate readers who do not wish to read through it, here’s a summary. Dr. Brown has:
• throughout mistaken the time-average statistic of a dynamical response error for a time-invariant error;
• throughout mistaken theory-bias error for base-state error;
• repeatedly and wrongly appended a plus/minus to a single-sign offset error, in effect creating a fictitious root-mean-square (rms) error;
• repeatedly and improperly propagated the fictitious rms error to produce uncertainty envelopes with one fictitious wing;
• apparently does not recognize that only a unique model expectation value qualifies as prediction in science.
This list is not exhaustive, but in-and-of itself is sufficient to vitiate the analytical merit of Dr. Brown’s analysis, in its entirety.
Now to specifics:
Dr. Brown’s critique was presented under five headings:
1. Arbitrary use of 1 year as the compounding time scale.
2. Use of spatial root-mean-square instead of global mean net error.
3. Use of error in one component of the energy budget rather than error in net imbalance.
4. Use of a base state error rather than a response error.
5. Reality check: Hansen (1988) projection.
These are taken in turn. I assume the readers are familiar with the contents of Dr. Brown’s video.
Minute 15:07, 1. Arbitrary use of 1 year as the compounding time scale.
From Lauer and Hamilton, page 3831: “A measure of the performance of the CMIP model ensemble in reproducing observed mean cloud properties is obtained by calculating the differences in modeled (x_mod) and observed (x_obs) 20-yr means. These differences are then averaged over all N models in the CMIP3 or CMIP5 ensemble to calculate the multimodel ensemble mean bias delta_mm which is defined at each grid point as delta_mm = (1/N){sum_over[(x_mod)_i] – x_obs}, for all i= 1 to N.”
Page 3831 “The CF [cloud forcing] is defined as the difference between ToA [top of the atmosphere] all-sky and clear-sky outgoing radiation in the solar spectral range (SCF [short-wave cloud forcing]) and in the thermal spectral range (LCF [long-wave cloud forcing]).”
That is, the ±4 W/m² LCF root-mean-square-error (rmse) is the annual average CMIP5 thermal flux error. The choice of annual error compounding was therefore analytically based, not arbitrary.
Further, the ±4 W/m² is not a time-invariant error, as Dr. Brown suggested, but rather a time-average error of climate model cloud dynamics. It says that CMIP5 models will average ±4 W/m² error in long-wave cloud forcing each year, every year, while simulating the evolution of the climate.
Although Dr. Brown did not discuss it, part of my presentation showed that CMIP5 LCF error arises from a theory-bias error common to all tested models. A theory-bias error is an error in the physical theory deployed within the model. Theory-bias errors introduce systematic errors into individual model outputs, and continuing sequential errors into step-wise calculations.
CMIP5 models introduce an annual average ±4 W/m² LCF error into the thermal flux within the simulated troposphere, continuously and progressively each year and every year in a climate projection.
Next, Dr. Brown suggested that the annual average could be arbitrarily used for 20 years or for one second. It should now be obvious that he is mistaken. An annual average error can be applied only to a calculation of annual span.
Dr. Brown’s alternative propagation in 20-year steps used the ±4 W/m² one-year rmse LCF error. A 20-year time step requires a 20-year uncertainty statistic.
The CMIP5 ±4 W/m² annual average can be scaled back up to a 20-year average LCF rms uncertainty, “±u_20,” calculated as ±u_20 (W/m²) = sqrt[42*20] W/m² = ±17.9 W/m².
Using Dr. Brown’s RCP 8.5 scenario as the example, the 2000-2019 change in GHG forcing is 0.89 W/m². The year 2000 base greenhouse gas (GHG) forcing is taken as the sum of the contributions from CO₂+N2O+CH4, and is 32.321 W/m², calculated from the equations in G. Myhre, et al., (1998) GRL 25(14), 2715-2718. GHG forcing have recently been updated, but the difference doesn’t impact the force of this demonstration.
Starting from year 2000, and using the linear model, the uncertainty across a projection consisting of a single 20-year time-step is [(0.42*33.833*±17.9)/32.321] = ±7.9 C, where 33.833 C is the year 2000 net greenhouse temperature.
In comparison, at year 2019, i.e., after 20 years, the annual-step RCP 8.5 ±4 W/m² annual average uncertainty compounds to ±7.6 C.
Likewise, after a series of five 20-year time-steps, the propagated uncertainty at year 2100 is ±17.3 C.
In comparison, the RCP 8.5 centennial uncertainty obtained propagating the annual ±4 W/m² over 100 yearly time steps from 2000 to 2099 is ±17.1 C.
So, in both cases, the annually propagated uncertainties are effectively the same values as the propagated 20-year time-steps.
This comparison shows that, correctly calculated, the final propagated uncertainty is negligibly dependent on time-step size.
All of this demonstrates that Dr. Brown’s conclusion at the end of section 1 (minute 16:50), though true, is misguided and irrelevant to the propagated error analysis.
Minute 17:10, 2. Use of spatial root-mean-square instead of global mean net error.
In his analysis, Dr. Brown immediately and incorrectly characterized the CMIP5 ±4 W/m² annual average LCF rms error as a “base-state error.”
However, the LCF rms error was derived from 20 years of simulated climate — the 1986-2005 global climate states. These model years were extracted from historical model runs starting from an 1850 base state.
The actual “base-state” error would be the difference between the simulated and observed 1850 climate. However, the 1850 climate is nearly unknown. Therefore the true base-state error is unknowable.
In contrast, the model ±4 W/m² LCF error represents the annual average dynamical misallocation of simulated tropospheric thermal energy flux, during the 20 years of simulation. It is not a base-state error.
As a relevant aside, looking carefully at the scale-bar to the left of Dr. Brown’s graphic of LCF model error (minute 17:57), the errors vary in general between +10 W/m² and –10 W/m² across the entire globe, with a scatter of deeper excursions.
With these ±10 W/m² errors in simulated tropospheric thermal flux, we are expected to credit that the models can resolve the effect of an annual GHG forcing perturbation of about 0.035 W/m²; a perturbation ±286 times smaller than the general levels of error in Dr. Brown’s graphic.
Next, Dr. Brown says that by squaring the LCF error, one makes the error positive. This, he says, doesn’t make sense. However, that representation is incorrect. Squaring the error provides a positive variance. The uncertainty used is the square root of the error variance, which makes it “±,” i.e., plus/minus, not positive. This is not an “absolute value error,” as Dr. Brown represents.
In minute 18:30, Dr. Brown compares the mean LCF of 28 models with observed cloud LCF, showing that they are similar. By inference, this model mean error is what Dr. Brown means by “net error.”
However, taking a mean allows positive and negative errors to cancel. Considering only the mean hides the fact that models do in fact make both positive and negative errors in cloud forcing across the globe, as Dr. Brown’s prior graphic showed. These plus/minus errors indicate that the simulated climate state does not correspond to the physically correct climate state.
In turn, this climate state error puts uncertainty into the simulated air temperature because the climate simulation that produced the temperature is physically incorrect. Therefore, focusing on the mean model LCF hides the physical error in the simulated climate state, and confers a false certainty on the simulated air temperature.
The point is clearer when considering Dr. Brown’s minute 18:30 graphic. The 28 climate models shown there have differing LCF errors. Their simulated climate states not only do not represent the physically correct climate state, but their simulated states also are all differently incorrect.
That is, these models not only simulate the climate state incorrectly, but they produce simulation errors that vary across the model set. Nevertheless, the models all adequately reproduce the 1850-to-present global air temperature trend.
Temperature correspondence among the models means that the same air temperature can be produced by a wide variety of alternative and incorrectly simulated climate states. The question becomes, what certainty can reside in a simulated air temperature that is consistently produced by multiple climate states, all of which are not only physically incorrect, but also incorrect in different ways? Further, when it is known that climate states are simulated incorrectly, what certainty resides in the climate-state evolution in time?
Taking the mean error hides the plus/minus errors that indicate the simulated climate states are physically incorrect. The approach Dr. Brown prefers confers an invalid certainty on model results.
In minute 19:37, Dr. Brown then compared the FGOALS and GFDL climate models with widely differing mean LCF offset errors, of -9 W/m² or +0.1 W/m², respectively, and showed they produced hugely different uncertainty envelopes when propagated.
Propagating these errors is a mistake, however, because they are single-sign single-model mean offsets. They are not the root-mean-square error of each single-model global LCF simulation (see below).
Neither offset error is a plus/minus value. However, the right side of Dr. Brown’s graphic incorrectly represents them as “±.” Dr. Brown has incorrectly appended a “±” to these single-sign errors. The strictly positive GFDL error can produce only a small positive wing, while the FGOALS calculation is restricted to a large negative wing. That is, Dr. Brown’s double-winged uncertainty envelopes resulted from improperly appending a “±” to mean errors that are strictly positive or negative values.
Thus, both uncertainty calculations are wrong because a single-model single-sign mean offset was wrongly entered into a propagation scheme requiring a plus/minus rms error.
The global LCF error for a single model simulation is the rmse calculated from simulated minus observed LCF in the requisite unit-areas across the globe. Taking the root-mean-square of the individual errors produces the global mean single-model plus/minus LCF uncertainty. Propagation of the LCF “±” rmse then produces both positive and negative wings of the uncertainty envelope.
In minute 20:06, Dr. Brown asked, “Does it make sense that two models that predict similar amounts of warming by 2100 would have uncertainty ranges that differ by orders of magnitude?”
We’ve seen that Dr. Brown’s error ranges are wrongly calculated and pretty much meaningless.
Further, the fact that two models deploying the same physics make such different mean LCF errors shows that large parameter disparities are hidden in the models. In order to produce the same air temperature even though the respective mean LCF errors are widely different, the two models must have different suites of offsetting internal errors. That is, Dr. Brown’s objection here actually confirms my analysis. A large uncertainty must attach to a consistent air temperature emergent from disparately incorrect models.
Minute 20:30, 3. Use of error in one component of the energy budget rather than error in net imbalance.
Dr. Brown’s argument here does not take cognizance of the difference between the so-called instantaneous response to a forcing change and the equilibrium response. My analysis concerns the instantaneous response to GHG forcing. The equilibrium response includes the oceans, which respond on a much longer time scale. So, inclusion of the ocean heat capacity in Dr. Brown’s argument is a non-sequitur with respect to my error analysis.
Next, the choice of LCF rms error confines the uncertainty analysis to the tropospheric thermal energy flux, where GHG forcing makes its immediate impact on global air temperature. GHG forcing enters directly into the tropospheric thermal energy flux and becomes part of it. An uncertainty in tropospheric thermal energy flux imposes an uncertainty in the thermal impact of GHG forcing.
The CMIP5 ±4 W/m² annual average LCF error is ±114 times larger than the annual average ca. 0.035 W/m² forcing increase CO₂ emissions introduce into the troposphere.
Dr. Brown proposed that a model with perfect global net energy balance would produce no uncertainty envelope in an error-propagation. However, restricting the question to global net flux in a perfectly balanced model neglects the problem of correctly partitioning the available energy flux among and within the climate sub-states.
A model with offsetting errors among short-wave cloud forcing, long-wave cloud forcing, albedo, aerosol forcing, etc., etc., can have perfect net energy balance all the while producing physically incorrect simulated climate states, because the available energy flux is misallocated among all the climate sub-states.
The necessary consequence is very large uncertainty envelopes associated with the time-wise projection of any simulated observable, no matter that the total energy flux is in balance.
Cognizance of these uncertainties requires a detailed accounting of the energy flux distribution within the climate. As noted above, the LCF error directly impacts the ability of models to resolve the very small additional forcing associated with GHG emissions.
This remains true in any model with an overall zero error in net global energy balance, but with significant errors in partitioned energy-flux among climate sub-states. Presently, this caveat to Dr. Brown’s argument includes all climate models.
Minute 23:50, 4. Use of a base state error rather than a response error.
Dr. Brown’s opening statement suggests I used a base-state error rather than a response error. This claim was discussed under item 1, where it was noted that the LCF rms error is not a time-invariant error, as Dr. Brown suggested, but a time-average error.
At the risk of being pedantic, but just to be absolutely clear, a time-invariant error is constant across all time. A time-average error is calculated from individual errors that may, and in this case do, vary across time. The time-average error derived from many models allows one to calculate a time-wise uncertainty that is representative of those models.
This point was more extensively discussed under item 2 where it was noted that the model LCF error represents the model average of the dynamically misallocated simulated tropospheric thermal energy flux, not a base-state error.
In pursuing this line, Dr. Brown introduced a simple physical model of the climate, and investigated what would happen with a 5% positive offset (base-state) error in terrestrial emissivity in a temperature projection across 100 years, using that model.
However, a model positive offset error is not a correct analogy to global LCF rmse error. Correctly analogized to LCF rmse, Dr. Brown’s simple climate model should suffer from a rmse uncertainty of ±5% in terrestrial emissivity. Clearly a rmse uncertainty is not a constant offset error.
The positive offset error Dr. Brown invoked here represents the same mistaken notion as was noted under item 2, where Dr. Brown incorrectly used a strictly single-sign single-model mean LCF offset error rather than, properly, the single-model global LCF rms error.
In minute 26:55, Dr. Brown again improperly attached a “±” onto his strictly positive +5% emission offset error. This mistake allowed him to introduce the plus/minus uncertainty envelope said to represent the uncertainty calculated using the linear error model.
However, the negative wing of Dr. Brown’s uncertainty envelope is entirely fictitious. Likewise, as noted previously, a single-sign offset error cannot be validly propagated.
Next, when Dr. Brown’s model is correctly analogized, the ±5% emissivity error builds an uncertainty into the structure of the model. The emissivity of the base state has a ±5% uncertainty and so does the emissivity of the succeeding simulated climate states, because the ±5% uncertainty in emissivity is part of the model itself. The model propagates this error into everything it is used to calculate.
Correctly calculated, the base-state temperature suffers from an uncertainty imposed by the ±5% uncertainty in emissivity. The correct representation of base-state temperature is 288(+3.7/-3.5) C.
The model itself then imposes this uncertainty on the temperature of every subsequent simulated climate state in a step-wise projection.
The temperature of every simulation step “n-1” used to calculate the temperature of step “n” carries its “n-1” plus/minus temperature uncertainty with it. The temperature of simulated state “n” then suffers its own uncertainty because it was calculated with the model having the structural ±5% uncertainty in emissivity built into it. The total uncertainty of temperature “n” combines with the ±T uncertainty of step “n-1.”
These successive uncertainties combine as the root-sum-square (rss) in a temperature projection.
To show the effect of a ±5% uncertainty in emissivity, I duplicated Dr. Brown’s initial 100-year temperature calculation and achieved the same result, 288.04 C → 291.93 C after 100 years. I then calculated the temperature uncertainties resulting from a ±5% uncertainty in the value of the changing emissivity, as it step-wise reduced by 5% across 100 years. The rss error was then calculated for each step.
The result is that the initial 288(+3.7/-3.5) C became 289.95(+26.6/-25.0) C in the 50th simulation year, and 291.93(+37.6/-35.3) C in the 100th.
So, properly analogized and properly assessed, Dr. Brown’s model verifies the method and results of my original climate model error propagation.
Next, at minute 28:00, Dr. Brown showed that there is no relationship between model base-state error in global average air temperature and model equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS). However, the Figure 9.42(a) he displayed merely shows the behavior of climate model simulations with respect to themselves. This is a measure of model precision. Figure 9.42(a) does not show the physical accuracy of the models, i.e., how well they represent the physically true climate.
The fact that Figure 9.42(a) says nothing about physical accuracy, means it also can say nothing about whether any actual systematic physical error leaks from a base-state simulation into projected states. There is no measure of physical error in Figure 9.42(a).
Figure 9.42(a) has another message, however. It shows that climate models deploying the same physical theory produce highly variable base-state temperatures and highly variable ECS values. This variability in model behavior demonstrates that the models are parameterized differently.
Climate modelers choose each parameter to be somewhere within its known uncertainty range. The high variability evident in Figure 9.42(a) shows that these uncertainty ranges are very significant. These parameter uncertainties must impose an uncertainty on any calculated air temperature. Indeed, there must be a large uncertainty in the air temperatures displayed in Figure 9.42(a). However, none of the points sport any uncertainty bars. For the same reason of hidden parameter uncertainties, the ECS values must be similarly uncertain, but there are no ECS uncertainty bars, either.
In standard physical science, parameter uncertainties are propagated through a calculation to indicate the reliability of a result. In consensus climate modeling, this is never done.
The parameter sets within climate models are typically tuned using known observables, such as the ToA flux, so as to generate parameter values that provide a reasonable base-state climate simulation and to project a reasonable facsimile of known climate observables over a validation time-range. However, tuned models are not known to accurately reproduce the physics of the true climate. Tuning a model parameter set to get a reasonable correspondence merely hides the uncertainty intrinsic to a simulation; an uncertainty that is obviously present when regarding Figure 9.42(a).
Next, Dr. Brown’s height-weight example is again an incorrect analogy because it is an empirical correlation within a non-causal epidemiological model, whereas a climate model is causal and deploys a physical theory. Dr. Brown’s comparison is categorically invalid.
A proper comparison would involve using some causal physical model of the human body complete with genetic inputs and resource availability to predict a future height vs. weight curve of a population given certain sets of conditions. Elements of this model would have plus/minus uncertainties associated with them that introduce uncertainties into the output.
Then, starting from year 2000, the calculation is made to predict the height vs. weight profile through to year 2100. The step-wise calculational uncertainties are propagated forward through the projection. The resulting uncertainty bars condition the prediction, and indicate its reliability.
The height-weight example marks the third time in his analysis that Dr. Brown improperly misrepresented a constant offset error as a plus/minus uncertainty. He has again incorrectly appended a “±” to a positive-sign offset error. The negative wing of his calculated uncertainty envelope (minute 29:48) is again entirely fictitious.
This example also again shows that Dr. Brown continued to mistake a theory-bias error, i.e., a plus/minus rmse uncertainty within the structure of a physical theory, for a single-value offset error as might be present in a single calculation. This mistaken notion ramifies through Dr. Brown’s entire analysis.
Finally, this same mistake does similar violence to Dr. Brown’s step-size example in minute 30:30, where he, once again, mis-analogized theory-error as a base-state error.
In his example, the correct analogy with rmse LCF error is a rmse plus/minus uncertainty in the size of each step.
Dr. Brown correctly propagated the 2-feet uncertainty in step-size as the rss, the distance traveled after three steps, with its correct uncertainty of 15±3.46 feet.
Dr. Brown’s 5-feet offset error only affects the uncertainty in the final distance from an initial reference point. It has nothing to do with an uncertainty in the distance traveled. It is not a correct analogy for the plus/minus LCF error statistic of climate models.
So, Dr. Brown’s final statement in this section (minute 31:53), that, “[A] bias or error in the base state should not be treated as the same thing as an error in the response (or change),” is correct, but completely irrelevant to propagation of the plus/minus LCF error statistic. The statement only illustrates Dr. Brown’s invariably mistaken notion of the sort of error under examination.
Again, the CMIP5 ±4 W/m² LCF error is not a constant, single-event base-state error, nor an offset error, nor a time-invariant error. The CMIP5 ±4 W/m² LCF error is a time-average error that arises from, and is representative of, the dynamical errors produced by climate models deploying an incorrect physical theory. It appears in every single step of a climate simulation and propagates forward through a time-wise projection.
Minute 32:14, 5. Reality check: Hansen (1988) projection.
Dr. Brown proposed a reality check, which was to plot the observed temperature trend over the Hansen, 1988 Model II scenario projections, shown in minute 34:02.
Dr. Brown’s mistake here is subtle but critically central. He is treating Hansen scenario B as a unique result; as though there were no other temperature projection possible, under the scenario GHG forcings.
Before getting to that, however, look carefully at Dr. Brown’s red overlay of observed temperatures. The ascent from scenario C to scenario B is due to the recent El Niño, which is presently in decline. Prior to 2015 – before this El Niño — the observed temperature trend matches scenario C quite well, but does not match scenario B.
According to NASA, air temperatures are now “returning to normal” after el Nino 2016. The current air temperature trend shown at Carbon Brief illustrates this decline back to the pre-existing, non-scenario B, state.
So, it appears that Dr. Brown’s model-observation correspondence claim rests upon a convenient transient.
Now back to the point concerning the absolutely critical need for unique results in the physical sciences. Unique results from theory are central to empirical test by falsification. Only unique results are testable against experiment or observation. If a physical model has so many internal uncertainties so as to produce a wide spray of outputs (expectation values) for the same set of inputs, that model cannot be falsified by any accurate single-valued observation. Such a model does not produce predictions in a scientific sense because even if one of its outputs corresponds to observations, a correspondence between the state of the model and physical reality cannot be inferred.
The discussion around Figure 9.42(a) above shows that the physics within climate models includes significantly large uncertainties. The models do not, and can not, produce unique results. Their projections are not predictions, and the internal state of the model does not imply the state of the physically real climate.
I discussed this point in detail in terms of “perturbed physics” tests of climate model projections, in a post at Anthony Watts’ Watts Up With That (WUWT) blog, here. Interested readers should refer to Figures 1 and 2, and the associated text, in that post.
The WUWT discussion featured the HADCM3L climate model. When model parameters are varied, the HADCM3L produces a large range of air temperature projections for the identical set of forcings. This result demonstrates the HADCM3L cannot produce a unique solution to the climate energy state. Nor can any other advanced climate model.
From the post, “No set of model parameters is known to be any more valid than any other set of model parameters. No projection is known to be any more physically correct (or incorrect) than any other projection.
“This means, for any given projection, the internal state of the model is not known to reveal anything about the underlying physical state of the true terrestrial climate.”
The same is true of Dr. Hansen’s 1988 projection. Variation of its parameters within their known range of uncertainties would have produced a large number of alternative air temperature trends. The displayed scenario B is just one of them, and is not unique to its set of forcings. Scenario B is not a prediction, and it is not validated as physically correct, merely because it happens to approximate the observed air temperature trend.
In his 2005 essay, “Michael Chrichton’s “Scientific Method,”” Dr. Hansen himself wrote that the agreement between his scenario B and observed air temperature is fortuitous, in part because the Model II ECS was too large and also because of “other uncertain factors.” Dr. Hansen’s modestly described, “other uncertain factors,” are likely to be the large parameter uncertainties and the errors in the physical theory, as discussed above. Dr. Hansen’s 2005 article is available here: http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/2005/Crichton_20050927.pdf.
Fortuitousness of agreement does not lend itself to Dr. Brown’s claim of predictive validity.
Dr. Hansen went on to say about his 1988 scenario B that, “it is becoming clear that our prediction was in the right ballpark”, showing that he, too, apparently does not understand the critical requirement – indeed the sine qua non — of a unique result to qualify a calculation from theory as a scientific prediction.
Similar criticism applies to Dr. Brown’s Figure at minute 34:52, “Modeled and Observed Global Mean Surface Temperature.” The air temperature uncertainty envelope is merely the standard deviation of the CMIP5 model projections around the ensemble model mean. This is a measure of model precision, and indicates nothing about the physical accuracy of the mean projection.
The models have all been tuned to produce alternative suites of parameters that permit a reasonable-seeming projection. The HADCM3L example illustrates that under conditions of perturbed physics, each of those models would produce a range of projections with a spread much larger than Dr. Brown’s Figure admits, all with the identical set of forcings.
Neither the mean projection, nor any of the individual model projections represent a unique result. Tuning the parameter sets and reporting just the one projection has merely hidden the large uncertainty inherent in each projection.
The correct plus/minus uncertainty in the mean projection is the [rms/(n-1)] uncertainty calculated from the uncertainties in the individual projections, meaning that the occult uncertainty in the ensemble mean is larger than the occult uncertainty in each individual projection.
Dr. Brown’s question at the end, “How long would observed temperature need to stay close to the climate model projections before we can say that climate models are giving us useful information about how temperature responds to greenhouse gas forcing?” is unfortunate.
Models have been constructed to require the addition of greenhouse gas forcing in order to reproduce global air temperature. Then turning around and saying that models with greenhouse gas forcings produce temperature projections close to observed air temperatures, is to invoke a circular argument.
Given the IPCC forcings, the linear model of my analysis reproduces the recent air temperature trend just as well as do the CMIP5 climate models. In the spirit of Dr. Brown’s question, we can just as legitimately ask, ‘How long would observed temperature need to stay close to the linear model projections before we can say that the linear model gives us useful information about how temperature responds to greenhouse gas forcing?’ The obvious answer is ‘forever,’ because the linear model will never ever give us such useful information.
And now that we know about the uncertainties hidden within the CMIP5, and prior, climate models, we also know the same, ‘forever, never, ever,’ answer applies to them as well.
We know the terrestrial climate has emerged from the Little Ice Age, and has been warming steadily since about 1850. Following Dr. Brown’s final question, even if the warming continues into the 21st century, and the projections of tuned, adjusted and tendentious (constructed to need the forcing from GHG emissions) climate models stay near that warming air temperature trend, the model projection uncertainties are so large and so and the expectation values are so non-unique, that any future correspondence cannot escape Dr. Hansen’s diagnosis of “fortuitous.”
Summary conclusion: Not one of Dr. Brown’s objections survives critical examination.
Thanks Pat… I’ve gradually gotten less skeptical of your arguments here. They remind me a bit of when Lancet published a study on the Iraq war which claimed some number of people had been killed, even though it actually had error bars so large it could not even rule out the possibility that the war had saved lives.
The large uncertainty bars do not indicate possible increases or decreases in air temperature. They indicate a state of knowledge….Further, the ±4 W/m² is not a time-invariant error, as Dr. Brown suggested, but rather a time-average error of climate model cloud dynamics. It says that CMIP5 models will average ±4 W/m² error in long-wave cloud forcing each year, every year, while simulating the evolution of the climate.
That seems to be the crux. The sensible thing for modellers to do would be to acknowledge this is obviously true, that they just as obviously cannot hope to produce meaningful predictions with the current state of uncertainties, and shrug it all off as the best they can do right now. Instead we get… well, climate science.
The same is true of Dr. Hansen’s 1988 projection. Variation of its parameters within their known range of uncertainties would have produced a large number of alternative air temperature trends. The displayed scenario B is just one of them, and is not unique to its set of forcings. Scenario B is not a prediction, and it is not validated as physically correct, merely because it happens to approximate the observed air temperature trend.
Part of the problem with AGW policy is that when “predicting” a simple scalar trend in a system as complex and subject to uncertainty as terrestrial climate, the odds of getting the scalar trend right by accident are astronomically higher than the odds of modelling all the pieces of the system correctly simply because it has so many fewer degrees of freedom… even if the errors weren’t so large as to render the “prediction” meaningless.
Thanks so much talldave2.
You’re right that the model-based continual and step-wise injection of error is the crux issue for propagating the error. The other issue is the linearity of model output.
Interesting point about the likelihood of accidental correspondence. Following on, the climate seems pretty stable over the short term in any case. Tuning a model to reproduce the immediate past, and then projecting a few parameterized alternatives forward seems like a pretty good scatter-gun way of getting something close to the short term trend of the climate.
You’re entirely right that such correspondences are physically meaningless, and are not predictions.
Your final general agreement, starting from a critical stance, gives me hope despite the obdurate obscurantist darkness that I have encountered among consensus climatologists.
Geoscientific Model Development turned out to be sensitive to the notion that Dr. Annan has serious professional and financial conflicts of interest with the content of my manuscript, perhaps clouding the objectivity of his evaluation.
On Tuesday, November 14, I received an email out of the blue from Dr. Didier Roche.
Dr. Roche is an Executive Editor at GMD.
Dr. Roche is also a climate modeler employed at the IPSL/Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l’Environnement.
A climate modeler who apparently is thought able to provide a dispassionate appraisal of a manuscript demonstrating that climate models are unreliable.
Here’s his emailed evaluation. It deserves wide appreciation as a fine example consensus analysis.
My response is in the next post.
+++++++++++++++++
From: Didier M. Roche didier.roche@xxx.xxx.xx
Subject: Your manuscript gmd-2017-281
Date: November 14, 2017 at 7:13 AM
To: Patrick Frank pfrankzzz@xxx.xx
Dear Patrick Frank,
Following the rejection of your manuscript gmd-2017-281 and your subsequent email to Copernicus, it has been decided that it will be treated as an appeal of the rejection decision.
In such cases an Executive Editor is nominated to provide an independent evaluation of the manuscript in question to confirm or reject the previous decision.
In the case of your manuscript, I have been asked to handle the appeal. I have now read your manuscript in details two times and evaluated the decision of Dr. James Annan who previously rejected your submission.
My analysis of your manuscript is that indeed it is not suitable for publication in GMD as it is. The reasoning you develop is based on the premises that the error arising from simulated cloud cover on an annual mean is a 4 W.m-2 error in longwave radiation calculations in CMIP models.
However clouds are highly variable in time and space. By thus doing an average over the year, you ignore completely their variations over the year. Similarly, when you state that “Global Cloud forcing is net cooling” (page 30) you also ignore the fact that different types of clouds (low vs. high for example) have different radiation effects and that therefore their vertical distribution is also of major importance.
The point related to the annual timescale was already pointed to you by Dr. Annan. I agree with his analysis.
Let me also highlight that in your appeal you incorrectly stated that “Dr. Annan wrongly claimed the ±4 W/m^2 annual error is explained “nowhere in the manuscript.” It is explained on page 30, lines 571-584.”
However, the valid point of Dr. Annan is that the *annual* timescale is explain nowhere in the manuscript. He never claimed, as you seem to suggest in your answer, that you did not explained the calculation method for your ±4 W/m^2 error.
Based on my expertise and on the material I received from your submission and appeal, I thus fully confirm the rejection of your
manuscript as submitted under number gmd-2017-281.
With best wishes,
Didier Roche (Exec. Editor GMD)
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=========
Didier M. Roche
IPSL/Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l’Environnement
Adresse:
Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l’Environnement
Centre d’Etude de Saclay
CEA-Orme des Merisiers, bat. 701
F-91191 GIF-SUR-YVETTE CEDEX
Tel.:
+33 (0) x xx xx xx xx
Didier.Roche@xxx.xxx.xx