Surveyed scientists debunk chemtrails conspiracy theory
UCI, Carnegie paper explains persistent aircraft trails, substances in soil and water
Irvine, Calif., Aug. 12, 2016 – The world’s leading atmospheric scientists overwhelmingly deny the existence of a secret, elite-driven plot to release harmful chemicals into the air from high-flying aircraft, according to the first peer-reviewed journal paper to address the “chemtrails” conspiracy theory.
Researchers from the University of California, Irvine, the Carnegie Institution for Science and the nonprofit Near Zero organization asked 77 atmospheric chemists and geochemists if they had come across evidence of such a large-scale spraying program, and 76 responded that they had not. The survey results were published Wednesday in Environmental Research Letters.
Heat from aircraft engines produces condensation trails that can be clearly seen from the ground. A small but vocal segment of the population firmly believes that these are composed not merely of condensed water vapor but of chemicals and elements such as strontium, barium and aluminum that powerful, high-level entities have been intentionally and covertly releasing into the atmosphere for decades.
They find the increased number and lingering presence of these aerial streaks suspicious and claim to have identified toxic substances in soil and water samples.
“The chemtrails conspiracy theory maps pretty closely to the origin and growth of the internet, where you can still find a number of websites that promote this particular brand of pseudoscience,” said study co-author Steven Davis, UCI associate professor of Earth system science. “Our survey found little agreement in the scientific community with claims that the government, the military, airlines and others are colluding in a widespread, nefarious program to poison the planet from the skies.”
The belief in chemtrails parallels increasing public distrust of elites and social institutions, according to earlier social science research. To those convinced, the chemicals are sprayed to regulate the food supply, control human population and/or manipulate weather patterns. In recent years, the theory has expanded to include government-sponsored geoengineering to mitigate climate change.
Some of the surveyed specialists suggested that global warming may in itself be a cause of longer-lasting condensation trails from aircraft engines. Another contributor, outlined in the study, is the steady growth of air travel in recent decades, which leads airplanes to fly higher, where contrails are more likely to form and remain in the sky.
“Despite the persistence of erroneous theories about atmospheric chemical spraying programs, until now there were no peer-reviewed academic studies showing that what some people think are chemtrails are just ordinary contrails,” said Carnegie investigator and co-author Ken Caldeira. “Contrails are becoming more abundant as air travel expands. Also, it is possible that climate change is causing contrails to persist for longer than they used to.”
The survey’s respondents – many of them currently active in research on atmospheric dust and pollution –stressed that methods of collecting samples of water, snow and soil recommended by chemtrails-focused groups may be to blame for faulty results. Obtaining and transporting samples via Mason jars with metal lids, for example, was cited as a poor practice that could lead to erroneous outcomes.
One of the experts questioned wrote:
“The jar will contaminate the sample, as will the metal lid, particularly if you shake it. I cannot imagine a worse protocol for collecting a sample; the data would be totally worthless.” Another said, “To analyze metals in environmental samples, glass needs to go through an acid wash to remove any residual metals. Otherwise, plastic should be used.”
UCI’s Davis said:
“We don’t imagine that we’re going to sway the beliefs of hardcore adherents to the chemtrails conspiracy theory with this study. But we thought it was important to go on the record with fundamental scientific facts to refute claims that the government is deliberately spreading harmful chemicals from aircraft.”
Amen to that, as I’ve viewed “chemtrails” as some of the worst crap science out there. It goes hand-in-hand with wild atmospheric effect claims about HAARP, which persist today even though the HAARP facility was closed a few years ago.
Ken Caldiera, a climate scientist whom I’m often in disagreement with is a co-author of this study said that “…showing that what some people think are chemtrails are just ordinary contrails.”.
That’s exactly right. But conspiracy whackadoodles seem to think there’s an organized effort (imagine trying to keep thousands of airline pilots, ground personnel, and suppliers quiet for years), even going so far to fake-up video footage of a airliner cockpit “chemtrail switch” being thrown.
It is a laughably transparent fake, notice the switch label is an overlay to hide the real lettering under the switch. The overlay isn’t even attached, and it slides when thrown.
As the overlay label slides down, you can see the word LOGO. The actual switch function is the LOGO LIGHT, used to illuminate the company logo on the tail:
Here is what the switch panel looks like in a 747:
![extlights[1]](https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/extlights1.jpg?quality=83)
And here is the actual panel used in the faked-up switch video as seen in a Boeing 737-600. Annotations are mine:
Snopes.com debunked yet another version of a fake chemtrail switch.
Proponents use video like this one to say that there really is an on-off switch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdhQ590I0H0
But what is actually happening is that the airliner is going from one type of air to another, such as crossing a frontal boundary, or by changing altitude where the dew point and temperature are no longer conducive to exhaust condensation. Of course, such simple Occam’s razor type explanations don’t satisfy the chemtrail kooks.
Here is a video produced to go with the paper:
Now if we can just put HAARP, Anti-Vaxxers, and the particularly wrong and angry Slaying the Sky Dragon no greenhouse effect kooks in their rightful place of understanding science properly, we might actually have a more pleasant Internet.
The paper:
Quantifying expert consensus against the existence of a ‘chemtrails’ conspiracy
Environmental Research Letters | August 10, 2016
Nearly 17% of people in an international survey said they believed the existence of a secret large-scale atmospheric program (SLAP) to be true or partly true. SLAP is commonly referred to as “chemtrails” or “covert geoengineering,” and has led to a number of websites (e.g., Global SkyWatch) purported to show evidence of widespread chemical spraying linked to negative impacts on human health and the environment.
To address these claims, we surveyed two groups of experts—atmospheric chemists with expertise in condensation trails and geochemists working on atmospheric deposition of dust and pollution—to scientifically evaluate for the first time the claims of SLAP theorists.
Results show that 76 of the 77 scientists (98.7%) that took part in this study said they had not encountered evidence of a SLAP, and that the data cited as evidence could be explained through other factors, including well-understood physics and chemistry associated with aircraft contrails and atmospheric aerosols.
Our goal is not to sway those already convinced that there is a secret, large-scale spraying program—who often reject counter-evidence as further proof of their theories—but rather to establish a source of objective science that can inform public discourse.
Read the entire paper – open access at: http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011
UPDATE: It occurred to me that some of the “harmful chemicals” being claimed as being “deposited” were actually quite common. From the paper:
Atmospheric deposition
SLAP proponents argue that seemingly abnormal concentrations of elements such as strontium, barium, and aluminum in water, soil, and snow samples are the result of sprayed chemicals. Our survey asked experts to evaluate photocopies of three different laboratory analyses of elemental concentrations in samples of pond sediment, filter media, and snow that were posted on the SLAP website, Geoengineering Watch. Additionally, experts were asked to evaluate the appropriateness of the sampling methods recommended by SLAP websites, and whether they have observed any secular changes in the environmental concentrations of strontium, barium, and aluminum over their careers, and the factors underlying any change.
Now compare that list to chemical analysis of seawater:
source: Karl K Turekian: Oceans. 1968. Prentice-Hall
Gosh just think of the terrible things that could happen if airplanes sprayed seawater in the air like the salt spray we get naturally from the oceans. /sarc
NOTE: Since Chemtrails is normally a banned topic at WUWT, comments will be heavily moderated. Rants, accusations, claims of being paid to publish this, etc. that don’t conform to WUWT policy will be deleted.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
alexwade, go look up Colonel Sander’s story. He was a pretty cool guy.
I dont think you need the heat of jet engines to make contrails. Hope this picture link works
Correct – it is more the heat/water vapor from the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel. You get vapor out the tail pipe of your car on cool humid days (and ice fogs up in the artic north during winter deep freezes…same thing)
You get vapor out of your mouth on cool days.
And on warm nights when the humidity is near 100%, although few have ever noticed. I walk around at night with a very bright flashlight, and on most nights here in Florida, even in summer, you can see your breathe.
It does not take much if the air is near saturation.
There is quite a lot of WWII film footage showing those bombers trailing big streams of contrails.
Here you go.
Hey, these planes have the chemtrail switch too!
Sometimes you see ’em, sometimes you do not!
Notice when you see them, is when there are other clouds around, and when you do not, it is usually dry very clear air.
https://youtu.be/wPaH8mb2lRQ
That is because of the turbulence playing the devil with the pressure/temperature at the boundaries. You would get those same contrails if you somehow could generate the same shaft horsepower with an electric motor. The combustion products are really unnecessary to the process, just available water vapor and the turbulent motion of the air induced by the blades.
” The combustion products are really unnecessary to the process”
No. At altitude the contrail is simply the condensation of exhausted water vapor. No exhaust = no contrail.
with respect that is mostly rubbish yes you can get condenstaion at sudden drops in pressure. think ‘cloud chamber’ but that’s not contrails.
there you need the added H2O from burnt hydrocarbon fuel.
James Francisco August 12, 2016 at 2:50 pm
Great picture showing trails coming of the prop tips, although the vapour from the exhaust must be the lions share of the trails. How about this modern version (and there are loads more). This is not common but evidence that just disturbing the air can generate a trail.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0980583/L/
An observant traveler, and I am one, can see the condensation forming in bursts at the wingtips and flight surfaces just by looking out an airliner window.
I love this topic as a conspiracy theory. It is just 100% completely illogical, and demonstrates a level of ignorance on a biblical proportion. If you are going to spray a population, you don’t release the chemical in the jet stream. Crop dusters fly close to the surface for a reason. Spraying over NYC at that height would likely end up falling on London or the Atlantic.
http://www.earthintransition.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/jetstream-110512.jpg
co2islife,
“Spraying over NYC at that height would likely end up falling on London or the Atlantic.”
And that is some sort of secret? Obviously not, so if you wanted to spray people in New York, you would not spray high over New York . . Logic is permitted ; )
Amen co2islife,
Google the chart that shows terminal velocity of a falling object by size. Something the size of a virus or “nanoparticle” if knocked off your tabletop would take around 7000 hours to fall to the floor. Those “persistant contrails” are persistant because THEY AREN”T FALLING. Anything heavy enough to have a chance of coming down anywhere near where it was released would be big enough to see and would hurt if it hit you.
Yes. The military calls them bombs.
There are lots of amateur astronomers with backyard telescopes. Some of them are fitted with spectrometers.
Could you point a spectrometer at a contrail to see what it’s made of?
Why would you feel the need to?
Conducting actual science instead of science by consensus?
Srsly, this study is pathetic. Not only is it a pure argument from authority aimed at people wo distrust authority, but it seems to mess up the actual scientific explanation for contrails. It truly demonstrates what passes for science these days.
As for me, I don’t believe in the Chemtrails Theory for the simple reason that I don’t think it would be that hard to clandestinely spray chemicals into the stratosphere without leaving a trail for everyone to see. If they can turn it on and off with a switch then they can spray them only during moonless nights or during heavy cloud cover.
Then again, Hilary can’t even wipe a harddrive without the whole world hearing about it, so maybe I’m giving them to much credit. ^_^
Not only is it a pure argument from authority aimed at people wo distrust authority…
Very nicely put. I made the same point but you sum it up perfectly.
The also attempt a scientific rebuttal and totally fail to be scientific. Total lamers.
Mainly H2O ice
Technically no.. the sunlight and composition of the air between are both factors as well as calculating the refraction. We can get close but you’re talking about equipment in the $4k range just to be able to collect data and the spectrometers specifically are designed to accept point source information… so we’d have to take a thousand samples with 2 or 3 second exposures then do all sorts of color tricks with extracting background… the end result would be about as scientific as the witch scene from Holy Grail.
The title of the paper is “Quantifying expert consensus against the existence of a ‘chemtrails’ conspiracy,” which unfortunately, as someone said earlier, is falsified as science by the use of the phrase “expert consensus.” It’s an opinion poll, not science.
Still, though, the idea of chemtrails sounds made-up. Now Bigfoot, on the other hand . . .
The title itself is highly confused. Are they reporting on the evidence of chemical trails or the existence of a secret conspiracy? Assuming they mean the former then the mention of conspiracy is redundant and has no place.
It really just reveals their mindset and their lack of objective investigation. As soon as you label something a ‘conspiracy theory’ you are dismissing and ridiculing it. This was never a scientific venture.
This is further underlined by their adoptions of Cook’s flawed 97% consensus methods.
The words under this photo question weather bombing raids of ww2 were changing the climate. http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2011/1-worldwariibo.jpg
I dare say the local climate where the bombs detonated was changed at least for a short while.
Yes Owen. Some of them were called fire storms.
I’ve personally worked with two otherwise educated techical types who were highly suspicious of contrails. And they were both daft as badgers, one suffering from OCD, the other having had too many recreational mind-altering substances.
So how do the wackadoodles explain the contrails blotting out the skies in photos from WW II showing B-17 armadas over Europe, with the ME-109 and FW-190 fighters dancing around them, all leaving beautiful contrails in their wakes? I’m sure those aircraft had plenty of extra payload capacity to bring along chemicals for dispersal while their pilots struggled to stay alive.
I believe the genesis of this “theory” has roots in the Agent Orange program of the Viet Nam War.
Jet fuel (Jet A/A1) contains on average about 800 ppm Sulfur and trace amounts of other elements besides carbon and hydrogen. It is the most regulated product from a conventional refinery and must meet either ASTM D1655 or the British MOD specification DefStan 91-91, both of which specify energy content, density, aromatics, thermal stability and many other properties of the fuel. Aircraft are certified to use only this fuel and cannot use other fuel unless they are re-designated Experimental Aircraft. This was done when testing a number of alternative jet fuels produced from biomass resources. The biomass derived jet fuels, many known as Synthetic Paraffinic Kerosene (SPK), have even more restrictions on their composition.
Jet fuel is my specialty, so ask any questions you may have about these fuels.
Thanks doc. How has sulphur content changed over, say the last 20y ? Can you point to a source of the volume of fuel consumed each year over a similar period.
From the figures you give it should be possible to estimate the amount of sulphate aerosols being dumped, mainly into the lower stratosphere and compare this to the effects of major stratospheric eruptions like Mt.Pinatubo.
I’d be surprised if the amount of sulphate and particulate matter being dumped into the lower stratosphere is not having a measurable effect.
I also expect that the natural processes which removed volcanic aerosols in the years immediately following Mt P. will have flushed out a considerable amount of this human injected pollution from the stratosphere.
The stratosphere cooled by about 0.5K once the initial perturbation settled out.
This less opaque stratosphere will have let more solar penetrate into the lower climate system, meaning that major volcanoes have a long term warming effect on climate. The late 20th. c. warming that started this whole panic was probably largely due to the two eruptions.
I mentioned above that I once found a plot of yearly jet fuel production over the last 50 years or so….amazing increase. I haven’t been able to find it since.
Thanks Dr Spencer, and thanks to you and you boss for the above dataset. I think that correctly understanding those two drops and their relationship to major eruptions will lead to a paradigm shift in our understanding of climate.
I should have included a link to the article too.
https://climategrog.wordpress.com/uah_tls_365d/
‘DefStan’ / Dark satanic mills – the connection could hardly be clearer, I’m with the 77th guy.
Well there are a lot of additives to jet fuel put there for various reasons and I imagine that most of these go into the air as micron breathable particles or gases:
http://193002e668758ea9762904da1a22337c.cdn.ilink247.com/ClientFiles/improchem/Improchem/Company/Images/7259_12101891913.PNG
If the Anti Vaxxers had to sign an agreement that their medical insurance would not cover the children if they became infected with what the vaccine was for that they refused they would stop this behavior.
In any high desert airport, when it gets warm they have to ask people to leave to lighten the plan, been there done that, to many times to count, left the airport with 10 seats empty. Took off in a Cessna 152 with two 200 pound adults and full tank of fuel at 14:00, 98 degrees. We cleared a major power distribution center by 15 feet (normally 400 feet), turned around and landed, there was a noticeable ‘contrail’ as we landed.
Yeah, sounds like a case of contrail from a moisture source other than the engine combustion :). And I can vouch: on a hot day in Prescott you need very sensitive instruments to detect any power output from a 152.
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011
OMG, they have basically adopted the highly flawed methods of Cook et al bullshit 97% paper almost line by line.
The Chinese have implemented terrestrial chemtrails. Put the aliens in the middle of all this and you get all the answers.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/26/china_dump_smell/
“A small but vocal segment of the population firmly believes” in Santa Claus.
Yes, and you can spot them easily – they have high-pitched voices, eat dirt and crayons, and pick their noses a lot.
Have a care, that’s my mother you’re talking about !!
Yeah, but the ones that believe Elvis faked his own death are harder to spot.
Let’s play logic, folks . .
People convinced that the Earth is on the verge of catastrophic overheating, experiment with potential ways to intercept incoming energy from the sun high in the atmosphere.
Where’s the logical flaw?
The Commander in Chief has declared said catastrophic overheating of the Earth to be the number one National Security threat to the US, and authorizes said testing.
Where’s the logical flaw?
He knows it is not true.
Hillary believes her own lies, but Obama just lies.
As the CO2 increases it starts intercepting the energy higher in the atmosphere? Water vapor does the same thing at about 20x the effectiveness?
CAGW solved! . . better let the CIC know right away, prjindigo ; )
I’m actually more stunned that such a cabal of conspiracy theorists exist and there are efforts to prove them wrong. What’s next, “grass isn’t really green, pediatrics practitioners drug us all”?? What foolishness.
It’s not fashionable around hear to speak of conspiracy . . collusion is PC though ; )
nope..not on the chemtrail/HAARP/hollow earth bandwagon. In all endeavors related to science and technology, I advocate reasonable skepticism that science has all the answers (since science is practiced by man, who is flawed)
Any scientist who claims “fact” “settled” etc will get challenged by someone who knows more.
On matters of politics, propaganda, mass psychology..neh.
The anti-vax people are correct ….
If it wasn’t for vaccinations I wouldn’t have made it out of childhood.
Over the last 60yrs I’ve managed to upset a lot of people…….all due to vaccinations.
I have no words to adequately express my dismay at people who have the intelligence to grasp, but don’t, that some vaccines being safe and effective does not make anything labelled ‘vaccine’ safe and effective to inject into everyone, by default. It’s magical thinking to me . . with the term ‘vaccine’ acting as an incantation, essentially.
If someone started calling people “anti-drug” because they did not accept that some drugs being safe and effective, rendered anything labeled a drug safe and effective, by default, more might see how unscientific it is to approve concoctions that have not yet even been concocted, as fine and dandy for injecting into people en mass . . and to approve of mocking those not so inclined to place blind faith in pharmaceutical companies . .
JK, I will engage again on antivax as someone who has delt professionally with the FDA for now 16 years concerning antimicrobials. You really have no idea of the extensive safety and efficacy trials medications including vaccines go through. Are they perfectly efficacious? No. Are they perfectly safe? No. But on balance, is their approved cost/benefit very positive? Yes. By FDCS law passed 1906. In the specific case of MMR, the rate of reported medical complications is about 1/1,000,000. The lives saved totals over 36 million. The positive cost benefit is undeniably overwhelming. That developed world lifespans are into the late 70’s is due mainly to foir things: things: fossil fuels enabling industrialization circa 1800, vaccinations starting with Jenner cowpox for smallpox circa 1790, antibiotics starting with penicillin circa 1936, and modern evidence based medicine generally circa 1900—in that order. See opening chapter of Gaia’s Limits for many interesting details.
“You really have no idea of the extensive safety and efficacy trials medications including vaccines go through.”
Evidence, sir, I don’t do blind faith. And I know that vaccines are not treated the same as pharmaceuticals in general, so you’re basically just losing credibility with me.
Your assertions are without merit. Try googling FDA vaccine approvals. Just for grins. You know, facts rather than beliefs.
ristvan,
“Your assertions are without merit. Try googling FDA vaccine approvals. Just for grins. You know, facts rather than beliefs.”
Been there, done that, and it caused me to go from true believer to skeptic of the notion that we can’t be over-vaccinated (for big money). I suggest o0thers take your advice. (but do not just take the word of a Government agency as proof of anything . . which seems almost silly for me to even have to advise around here . . frankly)
PS ~ Flu vaccines will be distributed as usual soon, which could not possibly have been thoroughly tested. I am convinced ristvan is full of . . vaccines ; )
JK, may you not be vaccinated by the next imperfect version. And possibly expire in consequence. Your stuff is stupidly dangerous, not just to you, but to the general public via negating the herd immunity response. Please go elsewhere to some third world country minus vaccinations. Nigeria has polio at present. India has MMR. Just a couple of enjoyble suggestions. You might also consider contracting adult shingles from childhood chicken.pox; my significant other painfully did until adult vaccinated. Cause you are a clear and present disease threat to my children’s (vaccinated) children in my first world country.
I agree. I have never had a flu shot, and never will. I don’t get sick either. My opinion of them is that they don’t do much good, at best, and may cause harm.
JohnKnight
Rud is a Harvard-educated lawyer, not a Harvard-educated physician or microbiologist.
The immune system is the most complicated organ-system, we’re not even close to understanding it–if we were, infectious diseases would be eliminated. Cancer would be a disease of the past.
My spouse dutifully vaccinated our kids. One had a nasty reaction to MMR. She dismissed it. Three decades later she sustained a horrible reaction to the influenza injected vaccine of that year. Subsequently she did the nasal version, but contracted the flu. (Nasal was thereafter determined to be ineffective).
Finally, she realized, vaccines are far from safe and effective.
She actually did lab research, growing flu virus, and analyzing its RNA. Our research supervisor left academia and headed a successful commercial effort to develop and sell flu and Hep-C vaccines, for a time becoming a first-gen biotech billionaire ca. 1980.
I’m anti-vaccine because I’m a scientist. I deeply studied immunology and microbiology about the time Rud was deeply studying law.
I am also a freeloader. I know that for any infectious disease that can be prevented by vaccination, only 70-95% of the susceptible population has to be vaccinated, and the entire population is protected. This is called herd immunity. The unvaccinated don’t get the disease, and they escape vaccination risks. A great solution, for them.
Leftists assert, “That’s not fair, You Borg-resistor parents are avoiding vaccine risks, while not getting the diseases, thanks to the rest of us suffering from the vaccine harms.”
But, there is a credible answer to that. For the vast majority of infectious diseases, modern healthcare can prevent post-infection death. Intenaive care physicians recognized 30 years ago that “new and improved” chemotherapeutic agents’ ability to extend life by 6-18 months, was an illusion, i.e. intensive care medicine was the only thing that extended chemotherapy patients’ lives, while the chemo-pharmaceutical manufacturers. and oncologists falsely took credit.
A couple years ago, Mesoamerican refugees reintroduced measles to the US at Disneyland. None of the non-MMR-vaccinated infected victims died. Modern medical care. Nevertheless anti-science Governor Brown spearheaded a mandatory MMR vaccination law for children. As Rud might argue, if he put his head on straight, Gov. Brown and the Cal Democratic super-majority legislature, needs to be criminally prosecuted,
for allowing illegal alien invasion, and forcing vaccine toxicities on law-abiding people who needed no vaccination if illegal-alien invasion was not occurring.
Rud says he has been working with FDA for 12 years. Johnny-come-lately. I tried working with FDA 24 years ago, and discovered FDA was incompetent and law-breaking, to boot. It had to do with biologicals, drugs that require human-tissue harvesting (biological drugs are devised from human-taken cells/tissues, often illegally harvested through fraudulent “informed consent”.) The FDA sided with the battery-committing felons.
I don’t get the flu vaccine either .. I just hope everyone else does!
“Your stuff is stupidly dangerous, not just to you, but to the general public via negating the herd immunity response.”
Evidence, lightweight, you need evidence to convince me.
PS~ Readers please note the similarity of ristvans accusatory scare/guilt tactics, and something like the RICO AG shakedown attempts.
Dr. Istvan, do you not need to add modern sanitation and the availability of fresh healthy food supplies all year around to your list of four things?
LFTPM, did you say your research supervisor went left and became a billionaire in 1980 by successfully making and selling hep-c vaccine?
Hep C was known only as non-a non-b hepatitis until the late 1980s, when the virus was isolated. And no vaccine for hep c exists, then or now, successful or unsuccessful.
So, unless you misspoke, I am calling bullshit on your story.
Menicolas, you’re right. It was Hep-B vaccine. My error. Thank you for correcting me.
An interesting thing, my son was required by his college to receive hep-B immunization in order to re-enroll for junior year. He wasn’t a homosexual. He was not an IV drug user. He wasn’t even heterosexually promiscuous. His risk of contacting Hep B from sex or drugs was zero. But he was forced to accept vaccine risks, with no possible benefit.
Of course they would deny it — that is only more proof that it is true!
I, with my own eyes, can see what is going on 20,000 feet above my head. Should I believe their lies or my own eyes?
Something must be going on! It must!
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win!” — Mahatma Gandhi. Hold fast! We are in the laughing stage!
Eugene WR Gallun
As my son (an astronomy professor) always says when asked about “chemtrails”, ” If this is a secret government program, why don’t they only fly at night and no one will see the evil chemtrails?” Why are so many people so determined to believe that this nonsense is true?
Terrific comeback. Wish I had thought of it. But is now ‘stolen’ as a terrific soundbite. TY much.
“If this is a secret government program, why don’t they only fly at night and no one will see the evil chemtrails?”
Trails exist, and you have no way of knowing none are “chem-trails”, yet you assume none are, as do many others here. So why “hide” them? The question is nonsensical coming from those who are in the process of dismissing the possibility, with the trails that could be “chem-trails” hanging the air, it seems to me. You folks are DEMONSTRATING why there is no need to hide them . .
JK, have you checked the dust bunnies under your bed lately? They might be rabid and tularemic. /sarc. Positive about that possibility–and more potent than chemtrails. Both rabies virus and tularemia bacteria exist, and they are both amongst the top ten weaponized illegal biological weapons of mass destruction. That you can google. Infalation anthrax is #1.
As for water vapor contrails, yup. They exist just like dust bunnies. It is the rabies/tularemia dust bunny equivalent part that is in dispute. Me, I just vacuum them up and don’t worry so much about the global dust bunny conspiracy angle.
ristvan,
Seriously, if some chem-trails were generated tomorrow (really and truly ; ) would there be any particular reason for the people generating them to be worried about people noticing them, such that not hiding them could rationally be considered evidence that no such things ever happened? If anyone (rightly) tried to point them out, wouldn’t they be met with the exact same dismissive responses from you ( and Allencic, etc, etc). making it pointless to “hide” them?
“Terrific comeback” you say, but I say; Only if reports might be taken seriously. This is basic logic, to me, and you can’t escape it by demonstrating you will mock people who claim to have witnessed chem-trails habitually/casually . . that just demonstrates it’s not a terrific comeback.
And why would anyone do that, and what are the chemicals, and what exactly do they do, and why spray them so high, and…and…
Holy crap dude!
Menicholas,
Let us reason together . .
Universal negatives are not to be treated as simple statements of possibility or probability, they are declarations of absolute truth, and so bear a huge (often impossible to meet) burden of proof, right?
You would have no objection if I denounced Anthony for declaring no Sasquatch exist just on general logical principles, would you? And taking a survey of seventy biologists or whatever, would not render such a universal negative declaration unobjectionable to you, right? And you wouldn’t be asking me to describe or quantify Sasquatches, if I objected to the universal negative, would you?
And further, discovering a faked or mistaken Sasquatch encounter, or faked Sasquatch photo or video, or a whole army of imbeciles totally convinced they were Sasquatches, etc, etc, would not change the fundamental logical problem with making such a universal negative declaration, would it?
You know what other nonsense people are determined to believe?
Here are a few of them:
I’d mention others (including one Anthony mentioned in his OP), but the mods would probably (and rightly) delete them for fear of derailing the comment thread even more. 🙂
To spray these ”chemtrails” would require a big tank somewhere in the aircraft, a filling point, pumps and a system of feed lines to each engine and some kind of diffusor in the exhaust section of the engine. Plus a control circuit and at a minimum an on/off switch in the cockpit.
Now I worked with aircraft maintenance for 40 years, and I knew the aircraft I worked with pretty damn well. How come neither I nor anyone else have ever noticed all this unnecessary hardware? For example every time you remove an engine, you would have to unhook a pipe that doesn’t have any known function.
Would this hardware be in the IPC (Illustrated Parts Catalog) I wonder? And if not, how long would it take before someone complained that the IPC isn’t properly updated?
They think mind control chemicals will survive the combustion process.
And by spraying so high, UV breakdown, hydrolysis, and any other way chemicals decompose, all long before they ever floated to the ground.
Very few complex molecules would survive…mostly just elements and simple stable molecules.
Hey it could be called a spare fuel tank?
It could, but there is no such thing in modern aircraft. And it would be rather odd with a fuel tank that has no connection with the fuel system.
Yeah, how about these tanks? 🙂
http://contrailscience.com/wp-content/uploads/chemtrail-inners3a.jpg
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/ says they’re for shifting the center of gravity in various flight tests by moving water between the tanks, not to spray nozzles outside.
Weight/balance variation is SOP for certification.
Problem: If the tanks contain only water then why the HAZMAT warning on the rear bulkhead behind the green glow vest?
– Former ag spray pilot.
https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/1213
http://www.bluenomore.com
Malcolm Fenton “Why the HAZMAT warning on the rear bulkhead behind the green glow vest?”
Well maybe there’s actually something hazardous inside that compartment like maybe Halon for all the electronic testing equipment on board? I don’t see warnings on the barrels themselves do you? Like I said, (and you ought to know this if you really are a pilot and understand HOW an “envelope” is established…), weight variation and balance shifting is standard operating procedure during flight testing and aircraft certification. Example – You don’t see hazmat warnings on these barrels either –
https://books.google.com/books?id=OEniu9ff-_sC&lpg=PA15&ots=wPQCw1mUFC&dq=747%20flight%20testing%20ballast&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false
Would also need a procurement budget, a manufacturer, a transport network…oh, and a reason for doing it and an achievable goal worth spending money on…and people doing it that did not care they were also spraying themselves and their kids and everything and everyone else.
Do the chemtrail kooks have an explanation as to how the chemtrail big cheeses avoid contaminating themselves, their loved ones, friends, and all their associates and workers involved in the supposed chemtrail malarkey?
those people all take anti-chemtrail pills, silly.
Air filtration is possible, no?
JK, you should definitely install ultrahepa filtration (like in a clean room) with subsequent UV sanitation of filtrates, to protect from chemtrails.Then never venture outside again except in a bunny suit. Enjoy the self confinement provided by your absurd paranoia.
Just always report your position when you comment here again. So we know you have not broken containment so could flee if necessary. Else you would be dangerous to us per your own theories; No trained immunity system, plus mentally unbalanced.
Anti-chemtrail vaccinations have been mandatory among the elite for some years now.
Bill Gates injects them all personally at Bilderberg meetings and at the Bohemian Grove. As a member of the elite, Dr. Spencer, you should know this.
Rivistan, you too should definitely install ultrahepa filtration (like in a clean room) with subsequent UV sanitation of filtrates, to protect you, your children and your children’s children from germs. Then never venture outside again except in a bunny suit. After all, in the outside world, you can never be sure when an unvaccinated person will sneeze or cough in your general direction. Howard Hughes had the right idea, but with today’s technology you can enjoy full-spectrum antiseptic living free from the hassle of having to breathe the same air and touch the same door knobs as the unclean ones.
Air filtration is possible, and quite common these days, no?
Roy: “people all take anti-chemtrail pills”
Heh heh, good one! So instead of only needing millions of people sworn to secrecy about their involvement to perpetrate the nefarious program “X” upon the general population, there are millions more people sworn to secrecy about their pharmacological involvement (a network for secret development, production and distribution) to protect the lives of the perpetrators plus the perpetrator’s families, friends, associates and, of course themselves plus their own families, friends etc.
The expanded paradigm might reduce the degree of separation all the way down to one, someone I know is secretly protecting me from chemtrails! So it’s plausible that most everyone who isn’t involved in the conspiracy is nonetheless being secretly inoculated by someone they know thus explaining why no one is affected by it!
“I have an existential map. It has ‘You are here’ written all over it.” – Steven Wright
Anti-CAGWers are silly dopes . . who are like the people who wear tin foil hats, join suicidal cults, and behave like Howard Hughes. Ha Ha ha
There, I proved the CAGW!! ; )
That ‘blue ice’ incident in Chino, California was obviously an attempt to silence our host spoiled only by incorrect data entry.
Thanks for the warning in Red, these sorts of subjects will naturally bring out the emotion in us to support what we most strongly believe.
I only ask that you leave out the Anti-vaxers in your equivalence statements.
Vaccines do indeed cause side effects, some side effects are quite bad or even debilitating. They are definitely not 100% safe products. That someone doesn’t want to take said risk should be their choice, not a mandatory “you will take it”.
Anyway; thanks for the opportunity with the article, and your site in general.
Well, considering my senator confirmed by email that they are spraying “nano particulate” into the air as “weather modification,” I guess this article went up in smoke.
Well AC, that changed my mind!
I am an old fart, and have heard of of a large number of conspiracy theories, from Pearl Harbor, the Kennedy assassination, to 9/11 truthers. The major conspiracy theory no one has touched on yet is the GMO/Monsanto theme, which does affect policy on food.
You mean Monsanto, the company that pollenated everybody’s crops with the genes from their own so they could sue everybody into being forced to use their seed?
What truly scares me about this is that nobody has sued Monsanto for intentionally spreading their crop’s genes on the wind so that it infests every plant in North America.
PRJ, No. I own a major Wisconsin dairy farm. We use only GMO corn and soy cause of the economics. Your assertions are just illiterately wrong. Been there,done that for ~30 years. Please provide actual counter evidence. First check your under bed dust bunnies. Or maybe you think farmers become mutant ninja dust bunnies via GMO pesticide exposure?
monmongrels get in first
anyones grain found to be contaminated cops a bill FOR the supposed “theft” of their genetics.
and now ALL NON GMO growers cop a fee for testing to ensure their grain isnt ruined by gmo
and have to pay more for safe storgae to keep it safe.
they get you coming and going.
re vax..well Merks OWN page on the HPV admits that anyone with the strains in the vax is at something like 50% INCREASED risk of the cancer its supposed to prevent(and that prevention story is long and full of holes)
so before getting the vax tests should be done to assess if the recipient has those strains present.
tell me why a NON injecting drug user/non Hep B mumfamily etc
needs a newborn jabbed with hepB vax?
and evidence of harm to liver from vax is growing
or the kids getting shingles FROM the varicella vax?
query WHY? ONLY the vaccine pharmas have immunity from legal redress?
special court for the claims and theyve paid out many mil after putting parents through hell first
chemtrails?
didnt believe
then clear hot sunny summerday in rural area where planes are rare
travelling
see one trail
see 3 trails by journeys end all parallel..wtf? moment
coming home 6 trails, ditto and all are spreading to dim the light
none “evaporated as normal” contrails should.
suspect more warmist than other reason ..but?
Ive also read USgovt papers on intent to cause harm by cloud seed weather mods dated 80s and admitting use from 60s onwards in vietnam and ongoing albeit limited implied.
would I…trust USGOV?
no fn way!
hell i dont trust my own mob and theyre shiny clean in comparison
They are parallel because planes fly on certain designated flight paths, not randomly. As the wind blows, each successive plane on that path makes a contrail offset from the plane in front of it.
OZ, in different geographic areas, the chance of contrails can be higher or lower. In north Florida, i saw them all the time, but down here in SW Florida, almost never…and the few times they do appear there are almost always cirrus clouds in the area, indicating that the humidity is very high at the flight levels.
look at the following picture…you can see that they cut off in certain areas, are heavy in other areas…the patterns, the persistence.
Now, this is one moment on one day…how many tons of whatever do they need to spay every day of the year?
The real answer is simple…there are tens of thousands of flights in the US alone every single day, and in some places contrails persist, and in others they do not, and this varies as the weather changes.
http://chemtrails.cc/images/contrails_nasa.jpg
I’ve always been amused by the whole chemtrail thing.
First we have to assume that some secret society is secretly spraying some secret concoction of chemicals from airplanes. The way the keep it a secret of course is to do it in broad daylight, up in the sky, where millions upon millions of people can see them.
Then we are to believe that, given the number of planes involved, literally millions of tons of chemicals, equipment, and tens of thousands of of people must be involved to operate the whole thing without a single whistle blower. I mean, the 100 MPG GM carburetor at least belonged to my friend’s friend’s cousin’s uncle whom no one could ever find. These loons don’t have even that.