Time and the Tides Wait for Godot

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I’ve been listening to lots of stuff lately about tidal cycles. These exist, to be sure. However, they are fairly complex, and they only repeat (and even then only approximately) every 54 years 34 days. They also repeat (even more approximately) every 1/3 of that 54+ year cycle, which is 18 years 11 days 8 hours. This is called a “Saros cycle”. So folks talk about those cycles, and the 9 year half-Saros-cycle, and the like. The 54+ year cycle gets a lot of airtime, because people claim it is reflected in a sinusoidal approximately 54-year cycle in the for example the HadCRUT temperature records.

Now, I originally approached this tidal question from the other end. I used to run a shipyard in the Solomon Islands. The Government there was the only source of tide tables at the time, and they didn’t get around to printing them until late in the year, September or so. As a result, I had to make my own. The only thing I had for data was a printed version of the tide tables for the previous year.

What I found out then was that for any location, the tides can be calculated as a combination of “tidal constituents” of varying periods. As you might imagine, the strongest tidal constituents are half-daily, daily, monthly, and yearly. These represent the rotations of the earth, sun, and moon. There’s a list of the various tidal constituents here, none of which are longer than a year.

day by day tidal force earthFigure 1. Total tidal force exerted on the Earth by the combination of the sun and the moon. 

So what puzzled me even back then was, why are there no longer-period cycles used to predict the tides? Why don’t we use cycles of 18+ and 54.1 years to predict the tides?

Being a back to basics, start-from-the-start kind of guy, I reckoned that I’d just get the astronomical data, figure out the tidal force myself, and see what cycles it contains. It’s not all that complex, and the good folks at the Jet Propulsion Lab have done all the hard work with calculating the positions of the sun and moon. So off I went to JPL to get a couple hundred years data, and I calculated the tidal forces day by day. Figure 1 above shows a look at a section of my results:

These results were quite interesting to me, because they clearly show the two main influences (solar and lunar). Figure 1 also shows that the variations do not have a cycle of exactly a year—the high and low spots shift over time with respect to the years. Also, the maximum amplitude varies year to year.

For ease of calculation, I used geocentric (Earth centered) coordinates. I got the positions of the sun and moon for the same time each day from 1 January 2000 for the next 200 years, out to 1 Jan 2200. Then I calculated the tidal force for each of those days (math in the appendix). That gave me the result you see in Figure 1.

However, what I was interested in was the decomposition of the tidal force into its component cycles. In particular, I was looking for any 9 year, 18+ year, or 54.1 year cycles. So I did what you might expect. I did a Fourier analysis of the tidal cycles. Figure 2 shows those results at increasingly longer scales from top to bottom.

Fourier analysis tidal forceFigure 2. Fourier analysis of the tidal forces acting on the earth. Each succeeding graph shows a longer time period. Note the increasing scale.

The top panel shows the short-term components. These are strongest at one day, and at 29.5 days, with side peaks near the 29.5 day lunar cycle, and with weaker half-month cycles as well.

The second panel shows cycles out to 18 months. Note that the new Y-axis scale is eight times the old scale, to show the much smaller annual cycles. There are 12 month and 13.5 month cycles visible in the data, along with much smaller half-cycles (6 months and 6.75 months). You can see the difference in the scales by comparing the half-month (15 day) cycles in the top two panels.

The third panel shows cycles out to 20 years, to investigate the question of the 9 and 18+ year cycles … no joy, although there is the tiniest of cycles at about 8.75 years. Again, I’ve increased the scale, this time by 5X. You can visualize the difference by comparing the half-year (6-7 month) cycles in the second and third panels. At this scale, any 9 or 18+ year cycles would be very visible … bad news. There are no such cycles in decomposition of the data.

Finally, the fourth panel is the longest, to look for the 54 year cycle. Again, there is no such underlying sine-wave cycle.

Now, those last two panels were a surprise to me. Why are we not finding any 9, 18+, or 54 year cycle in the Fourier transform? Well … what I realized after considering this for a while is that there is not a slow sine wave fifty-four years in length in the data. Instead, the 54 years is just the length of time that goes by before a long, complex superposition of sine waves approximately repeats itself.

And the same thing is true about the 18-year Saros cycle. It’s not a gradual nine-year increase and subsequent nine-year decrease in the tidal force, as I had imagined it. Instead, it’s just the (approximate) repeat period of a complex waveform.

As a result, I fear that the common idea that the apparent ~60 year cycle in the HadCRUT temperatures is related to the 54-year tidal cycles simply isn’t true … because that 54 year repeating cycle is not a sine wave. Instead, looks like this:

repeating 54 year tidal cycleFigure 3. The 54 year 34 day repetitive tidal cycle. This is the average of the 54-year 34-day cycles over the 200 years of data 2000-2200.

Now, as you can see, that is hardly the nice sine wave that folks would like to think modulates the HadCRUT4 temperatures …

This exemplifies a huge problem that I see happening. People say “OK, there’s an 18+ year Saros cycle, so I can divide that by 2. Then I’ll figure the beat frequency of that 9+ year cycle with the 8.55 year cycle of the precession of the lunar apsides, and then apply that to the temperature data …”

I’m sure that you can see the problems with that approach. You can’t take the Saros cycle, or the 54+ year cycle, and cut it in half and get a beat frequency against something else, because it’s not a sine wave, as people think.

Look, folks, with all the planets and moons up there, we can find literally hundreds and hundreds of varying length astronomical cycles. But the reality, as we see above, is not as simple as just grabbing frequencies that fit our theory, or making a beat frequency from two astronomical cycles.

So let me suggest that people who want to use astronomical cycles do what I did—plot out the real-life, actual cycle that you’re talking about. Don’t just grab the period of a couple of cycles, take the beat frequency, and call it good …

For example, if you want to claim that the combined tidal forces of Jupiter and Saturn on the sun have an effect on the climate, you can’t just grab the periods and fit the phase and amplitude to the HadCRUT data. Instead, you need to do the hard lifting, calculate the actual Jupiter-Saturn tidal forces on the sun, and see if it still makes sense.

Best regards to everyone, it’s still raining here. Last week, people were claiming that the existence of the California drought “proved” that global warming was real … this week, to hear them talk, the existence of the California floods proves the same thing.

In other words … buckle down, it’s gonna be a long fight for climate sanity, Godot’s not likely to show up for a while …

w.

THE USUAL: If you disagree with something that I or someone else said, please quote the exact words you disagree with, and tell us why. That way, we can all understand what you object to, and the exact nature of your objection.

CALCULATIONS: For ease of calculations, I downloaded the data for the sun and moon in the form of cartesian geocentric (Earth-centered) coordinates. This gave me the x, y, and z values for the moon and sun at each instant. I then calculated the distances as the square root of the sum of the squares of the xyz coordinates. The cosine of the angle between them at any instant is

(sun_x * moon_x + sun_y * moon_y + sun_z * moon_z) / (sun_distance * moon_distance)

and the combined tidal force is then

sqrt( sun_force^2 + moon_force^2 + 2* sun_force * moon_force * cos(angle))

DATA AND CODE: The original sun and moon data from JPL are here (moon) and here (sun), 20 Mb text files. The relevant data from those two files, in the form of a 13 Mb R “save()” file, is here and the R code is here.

EQUATIONS: The tidal force is equal to 2 * G * m1 * m2 * r / d^3, where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the two objects, d is the distance between them, and r is the radius of the object where we’re calculating the tides (assuming that r is much, much smaller than d).

A good derivation of the equation for tidal force is given here.

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Greg
February 11, 2014 1:16 am

Willis, with the fix you sent me I’ve got the code running, Thanks.
tideforce=sqrt(sunforce^2 + moonforce^2 + 2*sunforce * moonforce * cosines )
You’re not actually doing the vector addition, you are (correctly) finding the magnitude of the vector addition directly without actually doing the addition. I had not dug into the code before since I don’t try modding code before I know I can run it.
I’ll see whether I can come up with a code fix (though working in R gives me a rash).
Without worrying about the implementation can you see the point of ensuring the vectors are always adding not subtracting?

Greg
February 11, 2014 1:45 am

>>
[ANSWER: Thanks, Clive. Turns out we were both wrong. As someone else pointed out, I left out a “2” in the formula, which should have been:
“sqrt( sun_force^2 + moon_force^2 + 2 * sun_force * moon_force * cos(angle))”
>>
The correction was not correct. The latter term should 2 * sun_force * moon_force * cos(angle)* sin(angle) this can be simplified to :
1* sun_force * moon_force * sin(2*angle)
using the trig identities I linked for you yesterday:
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/mathematics/trigonometry/sumProductCosSin.htm#Products
see eqn 6.4 and put x=y
2*cos(x)*sin(x)=sin(2x)
====
Now if my R is correct this could be corrected by
cosines=rowscalars/(sundist*moondist)
sines=sin(2*acos(cosines))
then
# MAGNITUDE OF (add forces as vectors)
tideforce=sqrt(sunforce^2 + moonforce^2 + sunforce * moonforce * sines )
The spectra come out very similar but have a little group of peaks around 13-14 days (which makes sense) and the circa 11.5 and 13.5 mo peaks are equal in size.
I’ll see if I can do a mod to get new and full moons to add in the same sense..

Greg
February 11, 2014 1:49 am

BTW the 8.x years has gone! I said that was a bit odd earlier. One mystery less.

Greg
February 11, 2014 2:01 am

Here is a line get the size of the vector addition to always add , use modsincos instead of your original cosines.
modsincos= sin(acos(cosines))+cosines
main difference in spectrum is we now have 13-14 day tide variation and 27 day is now about as big as 29day.

Greg
February 11, 2014 2:07 am

Damn it, I called it modsincos and forgot to mod it !
modsincos= abs(sin(acos(cosines))+cosines)
27 day is now biggest which makes a lot more sense.

tallbloke
February 11, 2014 2:26 am

Greg says:
there is huge horizontal displacement of water in tides. This is why, it’s the horizontal component. Though we usually measure the height, the main effect of tides is horizontal movement.
It is important to realise that water does not come up, it comes in from all sides. It is primarily a surface effect. And that is all important if we want to consider its effect on SST and energy transportation.

Greg gets it. I’ve mentioned horizontal tidal components on WUWT many times to Leif, and he’s always blanked it. The vertical component of the tide on the Sun from Jupiter is around 1mm (due to the Sun’s enormous self gravity and the distance), but the horizontal component is much more extensive.
However, the tidal force is small compared to the forces passed back to the Sun from the planets via resonant harmonics carried by the interplanetary magnetic field as well as by the gravitational field. Willis seems to think the study of interplanetary harmonic resonance is ‘numerology’. But then, he doesn’t seem to be aware of the extensive literature on this subject in the astrophysics journals.

Greg
February 11, 2014 2:35 am

OK I’ve had strong coffee and hopefully have finished making typos in the equation 😕
modsincos= abs(sin(acos(cosines))*cosines)
The resulting plot and spectrum looks like this.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2iihjkn.jpg

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 2:38 am

Willis Eschenbach says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:02 pm
“Say what? That makes no sense at all. I have not calculated the “vertical component” of the tidal field. I have calculated the SIZE, aka the AMPLITUDE, aka the STRENGTH, of the tidal force … and that is a scalar.
So it can’t be the “vertical component” of anything, it doesn’t have a direction.”
I rather do understand exactly what it is you have plotted and have equally rather obviously failed to convey the limitations of what has been done and how it can be improved.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/richardlinsleyhood/Tidalvectors2_zpsc9b57e6a.png
The above is a plot of the ‘tide rising force’ from Wiki that will allow me to describe better what has been done and what is missing. You have plotted the magnitude of the single vector that is pointed to the ‘Satellite’ in the above diagram. That is perfect valid and correct from the data that you have obtained.
However your plot is a 1D line through the slightly more complex reality of what is going on.
I order to move to 2D (and then on to 3D) all the other vectors need to be considered. In particular the vectors in the Green and Red sections above.
These two web sites go into a lot more detail of the vectors, the changes involved and the causation of the two tides.
http://co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/restles3.html
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/tides.htm
If you now re-read what I said earlier about vertical and horizontal and consider the description as from being someone who is standing on the globe in the diagram when making the description you may better understand what I was trying to describe.

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 2:42 am

Willis Eschenbach says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:18 pm
“…
This is just simple ‘Gaussian’ low pass filter stuff but it independently confirms at least part of his case.
Since he has not revealed his data or code, we have no clue what “his case” might actually contain once it is opened … so far he has no case, he just has advertising materials.”
He himself acknowledged here on WUWT that my independent discovery of an ~60 year cycle in the temperature data was one of the results that he had concluded was present by a different route.
I have no knowledge as to if his claim of attribution is valid but to would appear that a simple ‘Gaussian’ treatment of the temperature data confirms his figure as being present.

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 2:45 am

Gail Combs says:
February 10, 2014 at 6:33 pm
“I did reference Fig 1….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I saw your figure 1 but wanted to make sure the link to the whole paper was available. (It is a long thread)”
No problem. It is a very important point and I have asked on a couple of occasions now if Willis is attempting to refute it, in whole or in part.

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 2:49 am

Willis Eschenbach says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:55 pm
“What I have plotted is the tidal force, the actual amount of combined tidal pull exerted by the sun and moon.”
You have plotted a single vector from the full set as described by the “Tide Generating Force” as it is more normally called in scientific literature. c.f. Wiki and the urls I have quoted previously.

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 2:52 am

Willis Eschenbach says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:22 pm
“because the relationship above means that at the poles, when the sun never rises, the full moon never sets …”
Now stop for just a moment and consider how this relates to the tides raised by the bodies in question at the points you stand on the Earth. Light and Gravity do follow similar paths you know 🙂
You own words this time.

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 3:02 am

Greg says:
February 11, 2014 at 2:35 am
“modsincos= abs(sin(acos(cosines))*cosines)
The resulting plot and spectrum looks like this.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2iihjkn.jpg
Is the R too long to post here? Or would dropbox and the like be a better place to share it from (if you wish to share).

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 3:05 am

Climate Scientist: I want a tool to examine Climate Temperatures.
Geek: How do you define Climate?
Climate Scientist: Longer than 30 years.
Geek: So you want a tool that will show how the planet’s temperature responds in periods of more than 30 years?
Climate Scientist: Yes.
Geek: Well basic theory says that a Low Pass filter with a corner frequency of 15 years will do exactly what you want.
Climate Scientist: But that’s not complicated enough and anyway that does not show me what I like to see. It says that there are natural oscillations in the signal and my theory says they don’t exist.
Geek: ??????????

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 3:06 am

Oops – sorry wrong thread 🙂

Greg
February 11, 2014 3:45 am

“Is the R too long to post here? ”
Willis already provided his code at the top. I just added a couple of lines.

Gail Combs
February 11, 2014 4:21 am

RichardLH says: February 11, 2014 at 2:45 am
In response to: Gail Combs says: February 10, 2014 at 6:33 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am ‘computer challenged’ so all I can do is read and try to follow what is said.
For the others who might be following this thread still, this is another visual aid:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moon_trajectory1.svg
It helps to not think of the moon as ‘circling the earth’ but as following in a slightly different orbit around the sun compared to earth and the two planets as ‘dancing’.

Greg
February 11, 2014 4:24 am

BTW there was a stray line in Willis’ code. The fix is to comment it out.
# oldmai=par(“mai”)
thanks , Willis.
In resumé. sines below corrects the maths of what Willis intended to plot, modsincos accounts for the fact there are two tidal bulges and new moons need to produce the same effect as full moon.
cosines=rowscalars/(sundist*moondist)
sines=sin(2*acos(cosines))
modsincos= abs(sin(acos(cosines))*cosines)
then
# MAGNITUDE OF ( forces added as vectors) per Willis post , but with correction
tideforce=sqrt(sunforce^2 + moonforce^2 + sunforce * moonforce * sines )
# MAGNITUDE OF ( forces added as vectors, accounting for “opposite bulge”)
tideforce=sqrt(sunforce^2 + moonforce^2 + 1*sunforce * moonforce * modsincos )
The resulting plot and spectrum for latter case looks like this.
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2iihjkn.jpg

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 4:26 am

Gail Combs says:
February 11, 2014 at 4:21 am
“It helps to not think of the moon as ‘circling the earth’ but as following in a slightly different orbit around the sun compared to earth and the two planets as ‘dancing’.”
And, having once collided, are now very slowly drawing themselves apart to eventually resume their independent paths 🙂

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 4:28 am

Greg says:
February 11, 2014 at 4:24 am
“The resulting plot and spectrum for latter case looks like this.”
For the single vector as described in my posts above, that is correct. Hardly the whole picture is it? What about the Poles?

Gail Combs
February 11, 2014 4:31 am

RichardLH says: February 11, 2014 at 3:05 am
I am sure HarryReadMe would fully appreciate that.

RichardLH
February 11, 2014 4:34 am

Gail Combs says:
February 11, 2014 at 4:31 am
“I am sure HarryReadMe would fully appreciate that.”
Well when I came to look at the BEST database I began to understand the frustrations he felt 🙂

Greg
February 11, 2014 4:55 am

http://clivebest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/plot.png
New plot looks to be the same as CliveBest’s one.

Greg
February 11, 2014 5:02 am

“For the single vector as described in my posts above, that is correct. Hardly the whole picture is it? What about the Poles?”
OH no. But one thing at a time. At least the [math] is [now] correct and the opposite bulge is take care of. Now I need to work out if the z component of this data is Earth NS or the normal to orbital or whatever ….
Then get the direction of the vector as well as its size , project the NS cmpt and we may start to see the rest of the storey.

Greg
February 11, 2014 5:05 am

maths is now correct….

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