Time and the Tides Wait for Godot

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I’ve been listening to lots of stuff lately about tidal cycles. These exist, to be sure. However, they are fairly complex, and they only repeat (and even then only approximately) every 54 years 34 days. They also repeat (even more approximately) every 1/3 of that 54+ year cycle, which is 18 years 11 days 8 hours. This is called a “Saros cycle”. So folks talk about those cycles, and the 9 year half-Saros-cycle, and the like. The 54+ year cycle gets a lot of airtime, because people claim it is reflected in a sinusoidal approximately 54-year cycle in the for example the HadCRUT temperature records.

Now, I originally approached this tidal question from the other end. I used to run a shipyard in the Solomon Islands. The Government there was the only source of tide tables at the time, and they didn’t get around to printing them until late in the year, September or so. As a result, I had to make my own. The only thing I had for data was a printed version of the tide tables for the previous year.

What I found out then was that for any location, the tides can be calculated as a combination of “tidal constituents” of varying periods. As you might imagine, the strongest tidal constituents are half-daily, daily, monthly, and yearly. These represent the rotations of the earth, sun, and moon. There’s a list of the various tidal constituents here, none of which are longer than a year.

day by day tidal force earthFigure 1. Total tidal force exerted on the Earth by the combination of the sun and the moon. 

So what puzzled me even back then was, why are there no longer-period cycles used to predict the tides? Why don’t we use cycles of 18+ and 54.1 years to predict the tides?

Being a back to basics, start-from-the-start kind of guy, I reckoned that I’d just get the astronomical data, figure out the tidal force myself, and see what cycles it contains. It’s not all that complex, and the good folks at the Jet Propulsion Lab have done all the hard work with calculating the positions of the sun and moon. So off I went to JPL to get a couple hundred years data, and I calculated the tidal forces day by day. Figure 1 above shows a look at a section of my results:

These results were quite interesting to me, because they clearly show the two main influences (solar and lunar). Figure 1 also shows that the variations do not have a cycle of exactly a year—the high and low spots shift over time with respect to the years. Also, the maximum amplitude varies year to year.

For ease of calculation, I used geocentric (Earth centered) coordinates. I got the positions of the sun and moon for the same time each day from 1 January 2000 for the next 200 years, out to 1 Jan 2200. Then I calculated the tidal force for each of those days (math in the appendix). That gave me the result you see in Figure 1.

However, what I was interested in was the decomposition of the tidal force into its component cycles. In particular, I was looking for any 9 year, 18+ year, or 54.1 year cycles. So I did what you might expect. I did a Fourier analysis of the tidal cycles. Figure 2 shows those results at increasingly longer scales from top to bottom.

Fourier analysis tidal forceFigure 2. Fourier analysis of the tidal forces acting on the earth. Each succeeding graph shows a longer time period. Note the increasing scale.

The top panel shows the short-term components. These are strongest at one day, and at 29.5 days, with side peaks near the 29.5 day lunar cycle, and with weaker half-month cycles as well.

The second panel shows cycles out to 18 months. Note that the new Y-axis scale is eight times the old scale, to show the much smaller annual cycles. There are 12 month and 13.5 month cycles visible in the data, along with much smaller half-cycles (6 months and 6.75 months). You can see the difference in the scales by comparing the half-month (15 day) cycles in the top two panels.

The third panel shows cycles out to 20 years, to investigate the question of the 9 and 18+ year cycles … no joy, although there is the tiniest of cycles at about 8.75 years. Again, I’ve increased the scale, this time by 5X. You can visualize the difference by comparing the half-year (6-7 month) cycles in the second and third panels. At this scale, any 9 or 18+ year cycles would be very visible … bad news. There are no such cycles in decomposition of the data.

Finally, the fourth panel is the longest, to look for the 54 year cycle. Again, there is no such underlying sine-wave cycle.

Now, those last two panels were a surprise to me. Why are we not finding any 9, 18+, or 54 year cycle in the Fourier transform? Well … what I realized after considering this for a while is that there is not a slow sine wave fifty-four years in length in the data. Instead, the 54 years is just the length of time that goes by before a long, complex superposition of sine waves approximately repeats itself.

And the same thing is true about the 18-year Saros cycle. It’s not a gradual nine-year increase and subsequent nine-year decrease in the tidal force, as I had imagined it. Instead, it’s just the (approximate) repeat period of a complex waveform.

As a result, I fear that the common idea that the apparent ~60 year cycle in the HadCRUT temperatures is related to the 54-year tidal cycles simply isn’t true … because that 54 year repeating cycle is not a sine wave. Instead, looks like this:

repeating 54 year tidal cycleFigure 3. The 54 year 34 day repetitive tidal cycle. This is the average of the 54-year 34-day cycles over the 200 years of data 2000-2200.

Now, as you can see, that is hardly the nice sine wave that folks would like to think modulates the HadCRUT4 temperatures …

This exemplifies a huge problem that I see happening. People say “OK, there’s an 18+ year Saros cycle, so I can divide that by 2. Then I’ll figure the beat frequency of that 9+ year cycle with the 8.55 year cycle of the precession of the lunar apsides, and then apply that to the temperature data …”

I’m sure that you can see the problems with that approach. You can’t take the Saros cycle, or the 54+ year cycle, and cut it in half and get a beat frequency against something else, because it’s not a sine wave, as people think.

Look, folks, with all the planets and moons up there, we can find literally hundreds and hundreds of varying length astronomical cycles. But the reality, as we see above, is not as simple as just grabbing frequencies that fit our theory, or making a beat frequency from two astronomical cycles.

So let me suggest that people who want to use astronomical cycles do what I did—plot out the real-life, actual cycle that you’re talking about. Don’t just grab the period of a couple of cycles, take the beat frequency, and call it good …

For example, if you want to claim that the combined tidal forces of Jupiter and Saturn on the sun have an effect on the climate, you can’t just grab the periods and fit the phase and amplitude to the HadCRUT data. Instead, you need to do the hard lifting, calculate the actual Jupiter-Saturn tidal forces on the sun, and see if it still makes sense.

Best regards to everyone, it’s still raining here. Last week, people were claiming that the existence of the California drought “proved” that global warming was real … this week, to hear them talk, the existence of the California floods proves the same thing.

In other words … buckle down, it’s gonna be a long fight for climate sanity, Godot’s not likely to show up for a while …

w.

THE USUAL: If you disagree with something that I or someone else said, please quote the exact words you disagree with, and tell us why. That way, we can all understand what you object to, and the exact nature of your objection.

CALCULATIONS: For ease of calculations, I downloaded the data for the sun and moon in the form of cartesian geocentric (Earth-centered) coordinates. This gave me the x, y, and z values for the moon and sun at each instant. I then calculated the distances as the square root of the sum of the squares of the xyz coordinates. The cosine of the angle between them at any instant is

(sun_x * moon_x + sun_y * moon_y + sun_z * moon_z) / (sun_distance * moon_distance)

and the combined tidal force is then

sqrt( sun_force^2 + moon_force^2 + 2* sun_force * moon_force * cos(angle))

DATA AND CODE: The original sun and moon data from JPL are here (moon) and here (sun), 20 Mb text files. The relevant data from those two files, in the form of a 13 Mb R “save()” file, is here and the R code is here.

EQUATIONS: The tidal force is equal to 2 * G * m1 * m2 * r / d^3, where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the two objects, d is the distance between them, and r is the radius of the object where we’re calculating the tides (assuming that r is much, much smaller than d).

A good derivation of the equation for tidal force is given here.

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RichardLH
February 10, 2014 7:10 am

Greg Goodman says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:04 am
“This implies a non linearity.”
As I mentioned above – the tide is egg shaped which may well be what you are seeing.

February 10, 2014 7:12 am

Richard,
Yes – this is exactly right !

http://i.stack.imgur.com/aE7Gd.jpg

It is only the horizontal component of those vectors that is moving any water in the oceans.

dan
February 10, 2014 7:37 am

Generally agreed that the tide-stuff is “tiny” but depending on the context, “tiny” can still have implications. Curious of opinions…
http://solarcycle24com.proboards.com/thread/324/theory-solar-cycle-www-sibet

February 10, 2014 7:44 am

http://i.stack.imgur.com/aE7Gd.jpg
Where does that come from Clive? Is the ‘egg’ shape due to the addition of a centrifugal component?

Reply to  Greg Goodman
February 10, 2014 8:59 am

Greg,
Yes I think the egg shape is due to the combination of the centrifugal force of the earth’s orbiting the earth-moon barycenter and the vectoral sum of the lunar and solar tidal forces.
One clear climate effect of the month can be seen in measured TSI data- see http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=2996. The earth changes its distance from the sun by up to 8000km each lunar month. This change in net solar insolation induces a regular change in global temperatures of ~0.02C.

cd
February 10, 2014 7:47 am

Greg Goodman
That’s whole point of my comment which you read but apparently did not understand.
No a simple DFT of an AM signal gives a very characteristic spectral signal: symmetry about the peak for the fundamental frequency of the carrier (double sideband fingerprint). Rather elementary stuff really.
Understand perfectly – not so sure you do though.

February 10, 2014 7:52 am

“It is only the horizontal component of those vectors that is moving any water in the oceans.”
‘Only’ I don’t think so. It’s all part of the effect. If the perpendicular force was not pulling up, the horizontal force would be fighting terrestrial gravity to pile up the water. It needs to be viewed as a whole.
Since none of the happens anyway be cause we don’t not live on a water only planet it’s just a thought experiment to see how forces act. This only one part of the story of actual tides, it’s just initial driving tidal forces.

RichardLH
February 10, 2014 8:00 am

Greg Goodman says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:52 am
““It is only the horizontal component of those vectors that is moving any water in the oceans.”
‘Only’ I don’t think so. It’s all part of the effect. If the perpendicular force was not pulling up, the horizontal force would be fighting terrestrial gravity to pile up the water. It needs to be viewed as a whole. ”
Indeed. The combination is the thing. Vertical forces acting on a Basin/Ocean can only be supplied by water flowing in and out from somewhere. Some of it is East to West to be sure but some has to be North to South.
Which is why all of this is about tidal flow not tidal height.
And the point is that the tangential vector is at an orbital not daily modulation.
Think daylight and how it varies over the planet over the year. That is how the tangential vector modulates. At the North Pole for instance that vertical vector of the field only changes over a 12 month cycle, not a daily at all. At the equivalent of the Arctic Circle (not the real one because this is Moon orbit, not Solar) then it is all Tangential.
The further and further away from the poles you go, the more the Vertical, daily, component becomes important.
This is all very complex stuff and well beyond a simple JPL plot I’m afraid.

David L. Hagen
February 10, 2014 8:01 am

Willis and Charles the Moderator
Willis: Re: ” no data, no code, no science.”
Charles the Moderator: Re: “Scafetta could satisfy 99.9% of his critics with a full release of data and code in order to enable replication of his papers, which currently cannot be treated as much more than anecdotes.”
I understand Scafetta to say that he documents his use of publicly available data, and fully describes his method in his peer reviewed papers sufficient for others to replicate his results.
While I would encourage him to show his code as well, I thought data and a full published method to be sufficient for the scientific method.
Is the data or his method not sufficiently clear?
Now he may have errors in his software/calculations (I have found errors in my own code etc.).
His releasing his code would help others to see if there is or is not.
However, if its public data and clearly explained method, I do not see how you can fault him for that.
Per your link to New Scientist, “Sceptical climate researcher won’t divulge key program”

” emails between Benestad and Scafetta over the past week, in which Scaffetta repeatedly refused to provide the code. “If you just disclose your code and data, then we will manage to get to the bottom of this,” Benestad writes in one email. “I really do not understand why you are not able to write your own program to reproduce the calculations,” responds Scafetta.
In response to direct questions from New Scientist, Scafetta said the code in question had been submitted to a scientific journal and that if “the journal takes its time to publish it, it is not our fault”. Benestad says the code he is asking for relates to papers already published.

Charles “Scafetta could satisfy 99.9% of his critics” – hyperbola.
Unlikely satisfy climate alarmists –
And I have my doubts that even that would satisfy Willis.
In an alternate theory, QB Lu suggests halogenated hydrocarbons have a major contribution to earth’s climate. e.g.
COSMIC-RAY-DRIVEN REACTION AND GREENHOUSE EFFECT OF HALOGENATED MOLECULES: CULPRITS FOR ATMOSPHERIC OZONE DEPLETION AND GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE 2013

February 10, 2014 8:02 am

It needs to be viewed as a whole….
What Willis has calculated it seems is one point value along the axis. This is OK to give an idea of form but what is required to calculate the force is a 3 dimensional integral that would include all the forces at all angles.
I think what he has done is fine for the needs of looking at the cycles. E&EO

RichardLH
February 10, 2014 8:07 am

clivebest says:
February 10, 2014 at 7:12 am
“Richard,
Yes – this is exactly right !
http://i.stack.imgur.com/aE7Gd.jpg
It is only the horizontal component of those vectors that is moving any water in the oceans.”
Not strictly true. The lumps being pulled round twice daily have to be fed from somewhere and those big bits of land get in the way of a purely East – West movement.
(Interesting SF plot in there somewhere about a completely water based world with a few islands where the bulge has time to build to astonishing proportions 🙂 )

February 10, 2014 8:08 am

Richard, I now see what your “egg shape” comment is , since the tangential vector is slightly closer than the central section of the planet and the tangential components are not parallel.
This is what would be found by a full 3D integration and it what I earlier referred to as higher order effects.
Clive seems to be correct, in Willis’ R code the cosine can be negative.

RichardLH
February 10, 2014 8:10 am

Greg Goodman says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:02 am
“I think what he has done is fine for the needs of looking at the cycles. E&EO”
I would dispute that.
Please consider how the tangential vector can influence both tidal and atmospheric flows North to South.

February 10, 2014 8:14 am

cd “Surprisingly, the spectra does not seem to show the “modulation” fingerprint.”
“Understand perfectly – not so sure you do though.”
Ok. so what precisely are you expecting to see that would be the fingerprint? Numbers , frequencies and where you would expect to see them on which graph.
If you’re surprised it’s not there you must know where to look.

February 10, 2014 8:15 am

“Generally agreed that the tide-stuff is “tiny” but depending on the context, “tiny” can still have implications.”
tell that to the folks who believe c02 has no effect because its tiny

RichardLH
February 10, 2014 8:20 am

Greg:
Please consider how the two sectors marked in red and green vary in time over the appropriate orbital periods for both Sun and Moon.
The vertical component at the Pole is orbital not Earth rotation modulated.
The tangential component at the ‘Arctic Circle’ is also orbital, not daily.
The unmarked sector is all daily (with a small orbital in there as well)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/richardlinsleyhood/Tidalvectors2_zpsc9b57e6a.png
Now put this all on a tilted, rotating planet and you will see the sort of driving force complexity involved.
As you say this is just a cross sectional view. To move to full 3D and the add in the Geography along with the fluid mechanics…..
As I said above, anyone got a super-computer, a research budget lying around? Oil money …. PLEASE.

February 10, 2014 8:20 am

R: “I would dispute that. ”
Sorry, I’m presuming you’ve read the short-comings that I’ve also commented on in detail above and referred to with E&EO (errors and omission excepted) here.
I’ve already said Willis’ graph is only half the story because he does not use the direction of the resultant vector. That is the declination angle that is all important in relation to 18.6 , 9.3 and all the plots I have posted here showing physical evidence of these periods in climate data.

RichardLH
February 10, 2014 8:28 am

Greg Goodman says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:20 am
“Sorry, I’m presuming you’ve read the short-comings that I’ve also commented on in detail above and referred to with E&EO (errors and omission excepted) here.”
I was only objecting to your suggestion that it was “fine for the needs of looking at the cycles”.
I agree with all of your other points, though you did [lose] me at one point but I now think I see what you were getting at:-)

Gail Combs
February 10, 2014 8:50 am

I do not see anyone mentioning this paper:

The 1,800-year oceanic tidal cycle: A possible cause of rapid climate change
Abstract
Variations in solar irradiance are widely believed to explain climatic change on 20,000- to 100,000-year time-scales in accordance with the Milankovitch theory of the ice ages, but there is no conclusive evidence that variable irradiance can be the cause of abrupt fluctuations in climate on time-scales as short as 1,000 years. We propose that such abrupt millennial changes, seen in ice and sedimentary core records, were produced in part by well characterized, almost periodic variations in the strength of the global oceanic tide-raising forces caused by resonances in the periodic motions of the earth and moon. A well defined 1,800-year tidal cycle is associated with gradually shifting lunar declination from one episode of maximum tidal forcing on the centennial time-scale to the next. An amplitude modulation of this cycle occurs with an average period of about 5,000 years, associated with gradually shifting separation-intervals between perihelion and syzygy at maxima of the 1,800-year cycle. We propose that strong tidal forcing causes cooling at the sea surface by increasing vertical mixing in the oceans. On the millennial time-scale, this tidal hypothesis is supported by findings, from sedimentary records of ice-rafting debris, that ocean waters cooled close to the times predicted for strong tidal forcing.
[Body of text]
…We propose that variations in the strength of oceanic tides cause periodic cooling of surface ocean water by modulating the intensity of vertical mixing that brings to the surface colder water from below. The tides provide more than half of the total power for vertical mixing, 3.5 terawatts (4), compared with about 2.0 terawatts from wind drag (3), making this hypothesis plausible. Moreover, the tidal mixing process is strongly nonlinear, so that vertical mixing caused by tidal forcing must vary in intensity interannually even though the annual rate of power generation is constant (3). As a consequence, periodicities in strong forcing, that we will now characterize by identifying the peak forcing events of sequences of strong tides, may so strongly modulate vertical mixing and sea-surface temperature as to explain cyclical cooling even on the millennial time-scale….

The entire paper is available at that address.

accordionsrule
February 10, 2014 8:52 am

Is it just me, or is Figure 3 undulating?
Must be a landlubber when even a tidal graph makes me seasick.

Tom In Indy
February 10, 2014 8:55 am

Steven Mosher says:
February 10, 2014 at 8:15 am
“Generally agreed that the tide-stuff is “tiny” but depending on the context, “tiny” can still have implications.”
tell that to the folks who believe c02 has no effect because its tiny

Mosh, I don’t think anyone is claiming that tides are the “control knob” of the earth’s climate, like the CAGW crowd claims CO2 is the climate control knob. Or, is the CAGW crowd not making that claim any longer? If not, then why are we debating climate sensitivity to man-made CO2 and destroying economies to reduce man-made CO2 emissions?

cd
February 10, 2014 9:04 am

Greg Goodman
so what precisely are you expecting to see that would be the fingerprint?
Side bands about the carrier frequency which we know in the case of Fig. 1. But then I’m not sure how/what he’s plotting in Fig. 2. If we assume that he’s simply converted wavenumber to wavelength then they’ll have to be inferred – but then I’m not sure what he has done (as stated originally).
It would be a lot easier to plot these as a function of frequency then we’d be sure to see the sidebands if present – given the times series. Plotting the “amplitude” on a log scale might help also. What is clear is that there IS amplitude modulation going on. And he’ll need to identify these if he wishes to properly decompose the signal.
Given that there is no drift in the data I’d:
Compute the autocorrelation using a window function and get the FFT from this. Start at the smallest window size to the largest. At each step you’ll be able to spot the carrier signal. Remember, Willis is only concerned with finding the fundamental frequencies.

Jim G
February 10, 2014 9:10 am

As pointed out by many, including the author of this post, the data, and therefore the point of the analysis, has no relationship to out 3 dimensional world. May I use the term “model” to describe it? I would name it the “ceteris paribus” model of tidal activity. It sheds little light on anything of significant import that can be tested in any way.

cd
February 10, 2014 9:13 am

Greg
To make clear the sidebands are symmetric, so if Fig. 2 is amplitude vs wavelength then this will not be the case hence the need to convert to frequency.

RichardLH
February 10, 2014 9:16 am

Nylo says:
February 9, 2014 at 6:39 pm
“Sorry but it is not 6h, By considering the year length of 365 days, you make an error of either 5h 48m 45.25s (if considering equinox to equinox, which is what interests us for the seasons) or 6h 9m 9.75s (if considering same orbital point). The leap year only corrects for 6 extra hours, which leaves an average error of 12m 14.75s per year. After 100 years, the error has grown to ~20.4 hours. We reduce it to ~-3.6 hours by deciding not to take a leap year every 100 years.”
You are indeed perfectly correct. When we get temperature data of sufficient length for this to become a significant factor, then a suitable correction will need to be added.

February 10, 2014 9:22 am

Wikipedia has also got it wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
So too has : http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/46792/tidal-force-on-far-side
Here is someone who explains it properly. ( http://www.moonconnection.com/tides.phtml)

Water on the opposite side of Earth facing away from the Moon also bulges outward (high tide), but for a different and interesting reason: in reality, the Moon and the Earth revolve together around a common gravitational center between them, or center of mass. Here’s a rough but helpful analogy: picture yourself swinging a heavy object attached to a rope around your body as you rotate. You have to lean back to compensate, which puts the center of mass between you and the object. With the Earth-Moon system, gravity is like a rope that pulls or keeps the two bodies together, and centrifugal force is what keeps them apart. Because the centrifugal force is greater than the Moon’s gravitational pull, ocean water on the opposite side of the Earth bulges outward.
The same forces are at play as the Earth revolves around the Sun. The Sun’s gravity pulls ocean water toward the Sun, but at the same time, the centrifugal force of the combined Earth-Sun revolution causes water on the opposite side of Earth to bulge away from the Sun. However, the effect is smaller than the Moon, even given the greater mass of the Sun (greater mass means greater gravitational force). Why? Simply because The Sun is so far away — over 380 times farther away from the Earth than the Moon.

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