First, apologies to my readers for the diversion from the usual fare, but I’ll point out that this entry is covered under the masthead in the category of “recent news” and there’s a relevant WUWT category.
Since like many of you, I’ve been forced to sign a document (at my radio station where I employed part-time) that confirms I’ve been given another document that advises me of my Obamacare rights, and of course being in tune to the news, I’ve been wondering if the claims about the Obamacare websites are as bad as claimed.
I read an article in the Pittsburgh Tribune “Sebelius visit fails to reassure as health care website glitches persist” that said:
Sebelius, who is making similar trips to cities across the country to spread the word about the website, told the audience of about 100 people that Healthcare.gov was “open for business.”
“Believe me, we had some early glitches,” said Sebelius, who was introduced by Rooney, a backer of the law. “But it’s getting better every day.”
So, I decided to find out myself. I went to http://healthcare.gov and chose my state, California. What follows is a record of what I actually got. I never made it past step 1:
Try it yourself: https://coveredca.com/shopandcompare/
NOTE: To be accurate, the website security certificate will work if the “www” is used as prefix, but not the link above sans www. By following the link from the Tribune article, with no other changes on my part, I ended up with the sans “www” connection, which they didn’t get a proper security certificate for. One wonders how many other “glitches” exist in basic security on these websites.
Even when you go in with the “www” there are problems. In Firefox I get this:
UPDATE: Reader Ben points out that it gets a failing grade from an SSL grading service, SSL Labs:
Source: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=coveredca.com
“Predictions:
Nothing will sway the direction of this country until the 50% who pay no federal tax are faced with the same pain the average tax payer has to deal with. ”
oh my, perhaps the commenter doesn’t realize that blaming others for one’s own dismal choices is his personal post normal evasion of responsibility..
so, predictions: no change until taxpayers hurt enough to stop the self harming behavior.
“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.”
Thomas Sowell
Gdn says:
October 13, 2013 at 11:32 am
“The “inferior outcome” has many caveats as well, such as the UN’s measuring system including level of socialism as a dominant part of their measuring system, so in a US where people are capable of paying for their health-care themselves, they are ranked MUCH lower than if they pay a tax to pay for the health care, all else being equal. ”
For sure there will be many caveats, but the health care spend in the US, public + private, as measured by faction of GDP, is still twice as much as other countries. Do you get your monies worth?
Dave A says (October 13, 2013 at 9:53 am): “What ever happened to Altruism?”
It was made compulsory and therefore became slavery. Surely a slave is the most (involuntarily) “altruistic” of all humans.
Astounding !
Helping your fellow man through voting for a Government and President who enact a law to assist those who cannot gain medical treatment in your Country get that medical treatment is…. Slavery.
It’s so clear now. Why haven’t I seen it like that before?
Just wow !!! and one more for effect !
To andrewmharding and others here knocking the NHS I say, Get a fecking Grip, The NHS is a remarkable success in offering Good Healthcare to the people here in the UK, and the fact that a Few foreigners get treatment that they may not be entitled to, is hardly any reason to condemn the whole system.
To those that may remark that ‘We get what we pay for’ I would suggest that we do pay for the National Health Service every day, its funded from general taxation, and is maybe why Petrol here is the equivalent of $7.50 or so for an Imperial gallon, along with all the other little taxes, the threat of which makes the Yanks irate to the point where they are blind to the Dogs Breakfast of a health system they seem to want to perpetuate.
Fanakapan:
Thankyou for your post at October 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm.
The truth needed saying and you said it well.
Richard
Bob Greene says:
October 13, 2013 at 6:31 am
I heard lots of anecdotes about Canadians coming across the border to get treatment in the US they couldn’t get or were waiting for very long periods to get in Canada.
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I looked this up several times. There aren’t lots of Canadians crossing the border. If anything, the opposite is true. People in the US cross over to Canada because clinics will often treat them without asking for their medicare card. The Canadians in the US who get treated are people who were in the US already at the time. Also, we Canadians spend less than a penny on the dollar on bureaucracy. In the US, it is 30 to 66cents on the dollar. That means that only 34 to 70 cents on the dollar goes to actual healthcare. Healthcare in the US is so ridiculously expensive, I have no idea how you all accept it.
Fanakapan says:
“The NHS is a remarkable success in offering Good Healthcare to the people here in the UK”
Compared with what? Your veterinarian?
And:
“…funded from general taxation, and is maybe why Petrol here is the equivalent of $7.50 or so for an Imperial gallon, along with all the other little taxes…”
Which makes the UK system far more expensive that what Obamacare replaces — doubled and squared.
As an American, I was very happy with my medical insurance. I got to pick my doctor, and if I wasn’t happy, I could choose another. There were never any waiting times for care. Without fail, whenever I called for an appointment I got one that day or the next. How does that sound to you UK folks? Wouldn’t you like that?
You only like your current overly expensive system because you are given no alternatives. It is all you know, you don’t know any better. But Americans can now see both their present system, and the sorry fiasco that is being proposed to replace it. And we do not like the replacement one bit, which is much more expensive, and which will result in much longer wait times, and which will result in a triage system that will let Granny die — in order to save money for longer-lived, younger voters.
Americans had the best health care system for Americans. But in Obama’s quest for a defining legacy of his failed Administration, he is sticking it to millions of satisfied customers. There is a reason that Americans overwhelmingly want Obamacare to be rejected: it will make us worse off! But Obama doesn’t care. When did Obama ever really care about anyone else?
…the Affordable Care Act is an excuse to institute carbon taxes. Watch for it.
MrX says:
October 13, 2013 at 1:18 pm
Bob Greene says:
October 13, 2013 at 6:31 am
If anything, the opposite is true. People in the US cross over to Canada because clinics will often treat them without asking for their medicare card.
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Where exactly are these mythical clinics that don’t ask for a health card. Certainly not in Ontario where you have to hand them your card and answer a series of skill testing questions before you can get past the front desk.
”Compared with what? Your veterinarian?”
Comment from a bloke who no doubt is having his ‘Coverage’ provided by Faculty or Job perhaps ?
The health services in Europe are every bit as good as those offered in the USA, they may indeed be better for the simple reason that Compassion is still counted into the mix.
MrX says:
“…we Canadians spend less than a penny on the dollar on bureaucracy. In the US, it is 30 to 66cents on the dollar.”
I could probably accept your argument, if you did not throw in that highly questionable statistic. There is no way that Americans pay 30 – 66 times more for bureaucracy than Canadians. No way.
…unless you were projecting our costs under Obamacare. Any Administration that spends a half billion dollars on constructing a website has zero cost constraints. Can you imagine what that mind-set will do to medical costs??
You write: “People in the US cross over to Canada because clinics will often treat them without asking for their medicare card.”
So? That only shows that straightforward medical costs are less in the U.S. People on Medicare must be over 65, so the fact that Canadians travel to the U.S. for their medical care says it all: Care in the U.S. has been cheaper and better.
I have relatives in Ohio who tell me that they know of Canadians who drive there from Canada for their medical care. They wouldn’t make the hour-long drive if Canadian medical care was better and cheaper.
The private health care practitioners in the US are also business people. Running a medical office is a business. My wife runs a dental practice as the administrator. This practice is owned by a single dentist. He has 2 assistants, 3 hygienists and 2 admin persons of which my wife is one. He must make payroll each week. He must pay rent for his office. He must pay for utilities. He must pay for malpractice insurance. He must pay for upkeep and maintenance to keep the office a clean and healthy place to practice. He must keep is equipment current. He must pay for continuing education for himself and his staff. He must pay taxes. He must make a living for his family. He has a lot of bare ass minimum expenses he must meet weekly and monthly. His only income is from payments his patients make. He must keep patients happy not only with his abilities but also with his prices or they will go somewhere else and he loses that income. If he does not meet expenses he goes out of business, 7 people lose their incomes and his patients must seek treatment somewhere else. He must be rewarded for his expertise. So the next time you have an emergency toothache that requires immediate care, be thankful that there are successful dentists out there that can take care of you. And they can only be successful and be there for you when you need them if they charge enough money to make their business work..
Just a few points to counteract some of the emotional stuff here:
1. California established their own exchanges and software. They specifically do not use the Federal system. Any problems are California’s problems.
2. The federal system was developed by CGI Federal a private sector systems development corporation specialising in sucking at the government trough. They own the technical problems here.
3. The PP&ACA does not create government provided or controlled healthcare.
4. The one healthcare system the federal government does administer (with a lot of contract help) is Medicare – which actually works pretty well.
All that I can say is that the medicare – single payer system – that is operative here in Canada works. There are of course some issues but by and large the system is completely effective. The kiss of death for any Canadian politician is to be accused of trying to bring the American system of medicine into Canada/
i can recall the controversy when Canadian Medicare was introduced. IT is similar to what is happening now in the US. The premier of the province of Ontario called it a “Machiavellian scheme”. There was a doctors’ strike in the province of Saskatchewan. It was a Machiavellian scheme in the sense that once it was initiated, no Canadian politician of a conservative bent would ever dare to propose that it be repealed. It works. People see that it works and regard it as an essential service. it just works.
Try as I might, i cannot understand the standard polemic that I hear now on American television that a universal health system reduces freedom. I live in a free country. i live in a country where people are free from the worry that a health condition will bankrupt them. i live in a country in which the health of a citizen is not apportioned according to his wealth
This sounds terrible
http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts.php
Like Slavery
The kind of horrible thing you would shut down your whole Government to prevent from coming to pass.
USA you have managed to turn yourselves into a laughing stock
Dave
Alan Robertson says:
October 13, 2013 at 10:57 am
You make your points 1 to 4 very well. I think of socialism in terms of market regulation. You need that in the healthcare sector to guarantee universal coverage and prevent excessive greed. For sure there are “socialists” with agendas that go beyond that.
Fanakapan says:
“Comment from a bloke who no doubt is having his ‘Coverage’ provided by Faculty or Job perhaps ?”
Perhaps not, Fanakapan. I pay 100% of my medical insurance premiums. None of it is subsidized. Not one penny.
Fanakapan never answered my question:
“Without fail, whenever I called for an appointment I got one that day or the next. How does that sound to you UK folks? Wouldn’t you like that?”
I wonder how long Fanakapan must wait for an appointment?
…You…don’t… …
….say…
…
Jeff Alberts,
I noticed that comment also. My first thought was, “How much does a house cost in India?”
Medical costs are less. Fine. But so is everything else.
America subsidizes the cost of drugs to the rest of the world. If that is “lunacy”, maybe we should charge the going rate. How does that sound to ‘gopal panicker’?
Doug says:
October 13, 2013 at 7:52 am
The Oregon site was working well weeks ago. i found many options cheaper than what I pay now, and for the first time, they won’t be excluding my pre-existing conditions.
————-
Well, Duh. The cost goes down for people with pre-existing conditions. They don’t have to pay their own freight any more. I just read where a San Francisco area Obamaphile retired school teacher had her individual coverage go up $2000 a year with increased deductibles (to pay for other’s pre-existing conditions) and another S. F. area man who had the cost of his family plan increased by $10,000 a year (again, to pay for someone’s pre-existing condition).
I have a friend in Alabama who was just notified her family’s plan cost was increasing 40%, with vastly increased deductibles. And, that she was no longer going to be covered because she was fat.
An Administration that feels comfortable with putting guns in the hands of park rangers and instructing them to train those guns on the public for the express purpose of driving them off of public land is capable of anything. (Wondered what the Admin was doing hoarding all that extra ammo at the beginning of the year…) Mind you: that is Public land not Obama’s private turf.
Next time we get a Gov’t that wants to punish a segment of the population-can now withhold health care and medication. It can also use this as a weapon to punish it’s political enemies the exact same way it does now with the IRS.
Will it withhold organ transplants for Tea Party members? As offensive as that may sound, knowing what we know now, would that really come as a surprise to anyone?
dbstealey:
In your post at October 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm you ask concerning the UK’s NHS (which is very different from the system proposed in the USA)
I do not know what you mean by “an appointment”.
A person subject to accident, heart attack, stroke or similar serious situation enters hospital immediately.
A person in the UK is registered with a General Practitioner (GP). Obtaining an appointment with one’s GP is usually the following day. In the event of emergency (i.e. pain) it is normally the same day. People who fail to obtain a same-day appointment they think they need attend the A&E Dept. of their local hospital.
The GP decides if the ailment is simple and – if so – prescribes treatment. Otherwise, the GP decides the appropriate Consultant (i.e. specialist) and arranges an appointment. The time to obtaining that appointment depends on the potential seriousness of the ailment as assessed by the GP.
Someone close to me is now recovering from major cancer surgery. She applied for a GP appointment knowing she was unwell but not why. 10 days later she had the surgery at a hospital some distance from home because it was a ‘center of excellence’ for cancer treatments. During that 10 days she was seen by her GP, seen by three Consultants, and subjected to a battery of investigations including nMRI and CAT scanning.
But that is the UK’s NHS. The proposed system in the US is very different (and grossly inferior) so I fail to understand why the NHS is being mentioned here.
Richard
Txomin
October 13, 2013 at 12:07 pm
‘Come on now. This is petty.’
I think fellow commenters may have it wrong concerning Txomin’s comment. I believe he was referring to the ‘Covered California’ website and he accidentally misspelled the word, ‘pretty.’ I think he meant to say: This is pretty – not petty. And, indeed it is: The beautiful, curving mountain road offering vistas of the majestic ocean to the left, and the majestic mountains to the right, and depicting a scenic journey to a destination just beyond the next hurdle…er, blind curve, er… mountain where the munificent gifts selflessly presented by our Dear Leader are waiting for us. And we know it’s all about our dear leader since the equally pretty, circular, three color, ‘Covered California’ logo shining to the left above the scenic vista bears more than a coincidental resemblance to the even prettier red and blue, circular campaign logo of the even prettierific one who made this all happen. Perhaps, not just similar logos everywhere can provide sufficient opportunities for the serfs to fawn, and coins may need to be minted with his handsome profile. Since the ACA, along with all the Leader’s other beneficent legislation may leave us all poorer (but oh, so pretty) those minted coins may have to be in rather valueless denominations but I’m certain his ego won’t mind.
Yes, this is all so pretty.
Alan D McIntire says:
October 13, 2013 at 4:52 am
“There’s no way the government can enforce penalties on everyone who didn’t sign up within the required time frame.”
As I remember it the USEPA mandated a certain proportion of the alcohol added into petrol (gas) was to be “cellulosic” ethanol. They fined fuel companies that failed to achieve this proportion, even though the required “cellulosic” ethanol did not exist and is unlikely to ever exist.
What makes you think that fines fro people that failed to sign up through a failed system should be exempt from the penalties.
p.s. From Gall, John
Complex systems built from scratch never work, complex systems derived from simple systems that do work, may or may not work.
Systems do not do what they say they do (think about this carefully).